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The very first 77, 80, & 83 star wars aren't as good as you think. They were good movies, no doubt, but some got too involved and analyzed every little thing about it that made you into something of a puppet. Star wars can relate to good and evil very easily in older or modern day society. Its totally fun to have an imagination and acquire thoughts that bring you to feel that it is real in a sense.
In 1996, when first hearing about a new Star Wars movie coming out, Wow, it going to be the best movie of all time! Well being pretty close to the first in line for Episode I, was an unexpected feeling of "I dont know how its gonna be". My somewhat critical thoughts led me analyze it while watching for the first time, rather than thinking about the story itself.
There was about 20 years of individual star wars analyzing before Episode I came out. So, no matter how the prequels were made, they would never be good enough.....
It behaves similar to greed, always wanting something more, and its never good enough. It sounds old school but it always the case.
I very much like and appreciate the story line shared by Lucas with his very cool imagination...

Yes.

That wasn't a Psychological observation of Star Wars. I feel cheated. And now bored.

Exactly. Plus I disagree. As if any movie is rated to the merits of its predecessors. I think that only happens if the movie experience is a disappointment.
Take Batman Begins for instance. Of course before it comes out it is compared to the many predecessors, but as a movie it rocks sky high, allowing us to forget comparisons. the movie works as it is.

When TPM came out, people were disappointed, despite the great outlook with pics and spoilers that came out before the movie did. And because tehy were disappointed they started looking at what made the OT so great in their own experience and where the PT was lacking that. Thos comparisons only start when the nerwer films aren't as great as the older ones. If the new ones rock, no one cares if the first one was less good. THere is the feel of progression. I feel taht is what is missing in the PT in comparison to the OT: there is technological advancement visually and effectswise, but storywise there is regression. And in the end, you can have all the effects you want. If they don't support a great story in its telling, you don't have that much. And the irony has it that THAT EXACTLY made the OT great: the effects SERVED a good story and made the story bigger.

Yeah...ummmmm I'm not a college guy so I'll leave this discussion to you educated people.

Originally posted by queeq
Exactly. Plus I disagree. As if any movie is rated to the merits of its predecessors. I think that only happens if the movie experience is a disappointment.
Take Batman Begins for instance. Of course before it comes out it is compared to the many predecessors, but as a movie it rocks sky high, allowing us to forget comparisons. the movie works as it is.

What a horrible example, given that the Batman series are made by entirely different people.

Originally posted by queeq
When TPM came out, people were disappointed, despite the great outlook with pics and spoilers that came out before the movie did. And because tehy were disappointed they started looking at what made the OT so great in their own experience and where the PT was lacking that.
They were dissappointed that it was not the OT...the films they had been marinating in for 14 years.
Originally posted by queeq
feel taht is what is missing in the PT in comparison to the OT: there is technological advancement visually and effectswise, but storywise there is regression.
Not true, I can't think of anyone who thinks that ROTJ is better than ESB. I don't know many people who think ROTJ is better than Star Wars.
Originally posted by queeq
And in the end, you can have all the effects you want. If they don't support a great story in its telling, you don't have that much. And the irony has it that THAT EXACTLY made the OT great: the effects SERVED a good story and made the story bigger. The effects do that in the PT too. Lucas simply got lost in the complexity of his story.

So he didn't think his story through very well... as he did with the effects... That's where he failed.

You don't seem to appreciate the HUGE HUMUNGOUS impact ANH had at the time. And don't say it was then, because LOTR did about the same. The PT did not have the impact of the OT or of LOTR. We can state that as a fact.

I doubt that.

I could never underestimate the HUGE HUMUNGOUS of ANH. You're the one underestimating it, claiming that ESB AND ROTJ were bigger, better and therefore no one criticised the new films.

ANH is the ONLY...read my lips...ONLY Star Wars film with any credibility.

LOTR and the PT had comparable impact. There was much more media/late night buzz about the PT than LOTR.

besides, as I've always said....the PT has been out for 2 years. You're comparing that to a trilogy that has been out for 24. Give it time. SW changed.

I agree, it did change. But to say we only love the OT (well, at least ESB and ANH) just because we loved them as kid and they're not great films now, that is utter BS. I think ROTS outranks ROTJ quality wise. AOTC and TPM are clearly a lot weaker, despite their excellent looks.

The PT is much more complex, it has much more depth, the OT is good guys versus bad guys, period. In the PT though, there are more plots, more going on behind the shadows, the good guys turn into evil, even the good guys(the Jedi) arent all, godi tushu(or how its spelled), the rise of Palpatine, seduction of Anakin...it was much more harder to begin in the first place.

And who chose to start with it? None other than Lucas.

It is more complex but mainly because he made it so. Plus he basically showed he couldn't handle such a complex story. He elaborated on stuff that wasn't THAT important, and rushed past some fairly crucial plotpoints. So it's no excuse. Either the film is good or it is bad. If it's good with an easy story, it's still good. If it's disappointing because of a complex stoyrline, it's still disappointing. As Lucas said after ANH: a film either works or it doesn't. He was disappointed himself with ANH but he did admit it worked. He made the PT he had always envisioned it, but I seriously doubt it worked as well as the OT did.

Originally posted by Alliance
Not true, I can't think of anyone who thinks that ROTJ is better than ESB. I don't know many people who think ROTJ is better than Star Wars.


Well, I am your first example then.

This is how I rank the star wars films in how much I enjoyed the films...you know, the thing they were made to do.

!. Ep 3 I loved this one a lot. one of my favs of all time.
2. Ep 2
3. Ep 6
4. Ep 1
5. Ep 5
6. Ep 4

All of the other movies are fairly close. I rank ROTJ ahead of any of the other movies simply because I liked it more. I could go into details but you would argue with them...it is an opinion.

When people were disappointed when TPM came out...I was rather pissed. I thought it was much better the OT movies except ROTJ! After a while, I figured out why: everyone was treating the OT as a "blankie" that they couldn't let go of despite the reality the the PT could be better if they would let go of their "blankies". It is sentiment.

Also, Harrison Ford's character, Han Solo, really helped the OT trilogy out. I think that if you take him out of the picture, the OT would lose a lot of its popularity. The same can't be said of the other characters. (By that, I mean Harrison Ford and the "scoudrelness" of Han Solo.)

What a strange sequence... the two best of the saga at the bottom... Odd.

Originally posted by queeq
What a strange sequence... the two best of the saga at the bottom... Odd.

That's why it's an opinion.

Fair enough for your opinion. Episode 4 is my favourite.

But I do agree with what Queeq said.

"Plus he basically showed he couldn't handle such a complex story."

I'm getting tired of criticising the PT now, I have hardly watched it since they arrived on DVD, but if I had to sum up why I think the PT failed to enthrall me, It'd be for that reason.

Yup. Irony is, it's all there... George just didn't make it work as well as the OT did. Maybe we should be lucky he had so many restrictions at the time. He himself was unhappy with ANH, but imagine what it would have been, had he done it like TPM.... Maybe the crowds would have stayed away... and there would be no sequels.

OK lets be honest here, no matter WHAT Lucas did when he made the prequels, there is NO WAY they would have stood up to the OT. It wasnt going to happen simply because of the sheer amount of spoiler leakage and fanwanking going on prior to the last 3 movies' releases.

^^^*grovels*

Originally posted by queeq
And who chose to start with it? None other than Lucas.

It is more complex but mainly because he made it so. Plus he basically showed he couldn't handle such a complex story. He elaborated on stuff that wasn't THAT important, and rushed past some fairly crucial plotpoints. So it's no excuse. Either the film is good or it is bad. If it's good with an easy story, it's still good. If it's disappointing because of a complex stoyrline, it's still disappointing. As Lucas said after ANH: a film either works or it doesn't. He was disappointed himself with ANH but he did admit it worked. He made the PT he had always envisioned it, but I seriously doubt it worked as well as the OT did.

Makashi is right its more complex...but ti really needed to be, because Lucas is trying to say so much more.

You're stuck in OT mode...black and white. Sorry bud, but the world doesn't work that way, unless you're Bush.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is how I rank the star wars films in how much I enjoyed the films...you know, the thing they were made to do.

!. Ep 3 I loved this one a lot. one of my favs of all time.
2. Ep 2
3. Ep 6
4. Ep 1
5. Ep 5
6. Ep 4


They were made for a slightly higher purpose than your personal enjoyment.

And I slam your ranking.

Originally posted by queeq
What a strange sequence... the two best of the saga at the bottom... Odd.

Then I can eliminate him from my data set.

Originally posted by Alliance
You're stuck in OT mode...black and white. Sorry bud, but the world doesn't work that way, unless you're Bush.


Star Wars works that way though. How can you kid yourself that Star Wars needs to be anything other than black and white? It's a childrens story.

two letters...PT

Lucas revised his story.

And it didn't work. A mythos full of archetypes like Star Wars only works when the idealogy is black and white.

MY POST IS GONE!!!

damn.

Short answer: No.

Originally posted by Alliance
You're stuck in OT mode...black and white. Sorry bud, but the world doesn't work that way, unless you're Bush.


How very constructive... That is utter BS of course. I can say I think the LOTR films were better than King Kong, but I can't say ANH and ESB are better than the PT movies? Why is that black and white? THere are a lot of arguments I can give to support it.

It's not that Lucas is not allowed to tell a more complex story, I just think he didn't tell it very well. And I can support that. Sure the OT is simpler, but also better told. And that is what makes it work.

So if it comes down to it: Lucas hated the technical limitations of the OT and yet he changed the world with his movies. His vision was bigger than the result he could achieve. And that is what made them great. With the PT his vision COULD be achieved and that gives rise to the thought that he failed to give the attention to the actual storytelling as SW had deserved.

So what is it we're talking about when we judge the movies? The look, the effects or the story? I think movies are nothing if the story doesn't work... no effect can save that.