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Feats:

Ultimate Nullifier - Destroyed the Marvel MULTIVERSE one second and then REMADE the multiverse the next.

Anti-Monitor - Used tech to absorb universe by universe into his Anti-Matter Universe.

So, simple question.

What's more impressive: destroying every universe in the multiverse simultaneously or having to absorb them one by one?

Just stop. The AM would survive a shot from the UN. Not up for discussion.

You didn't answer the question and thus are spamming.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Just stop. The AM would survive a shot from the UN. Not up for discussion.
Sorry Trick but I have to disagree. Even if you work under the assumption that the DC universe's were just as strong as a "standard" universe, AM still never possessed the power of the ENTIRE multiverse because he was still 5 universes shy of reaching THAT level of power. The UN can wipe out an ENTIRE multiverse with a single blast, so it should have more than enough power to wipe out AM.

i disagree....with the goobermeister. if he could withstand a direct creation blast from the spectre i say he survives the un

Originally posted by Superherovandal
i disagree....with the goobermeister. if he could withstand a direct creation blast from the spectre i say he survives the un
AM vs the Spectre was the biggest piece of PIS that I've ever witnessed. AM wasn't even using his own power during that exchange because he expended nearly all of it breaching the dawn of time. The power that he used against the Spectre was the power of the remaining heroes that went to confront him, which means that the power of those heroes withstood the blast from Spectre. As I said, PIS at it's finest unless you think that those heroes had enough power to withstand Spectre.

Originally posted by darthgoober
AM vs the Spectre was the biggest piece of PIS that I've ever witnessed. AM wasn't even using his own power during that exchange because he expended nearly all of it breaching the dawn of time. The power that he used against the Spectre was the power of the remaining heroes that went to confront him, which means that the power of those heroes withstood the blast from Spectre. As I said, PIS at it's finest unless you think that those heroes had enough power to withstand Spectre. if what u say is true, i might have to rethink the un killing am. darthgoober elaborate for me please.

some poeple think that he didnt die because spectre didnt wanna hurt the heroes wasnt that when he got punished for not stopping anti monitor or someone even when he could?

Anyway it depends on who is using the UN not anyone can just use it and destroy the multiverse it takes someone like galactus to do that and how did that from what im to understand

Originally posted by quanchi112
if what u say is true, i might have to rethink the un killing am. darthgoober elaborate for me please.
Shortly after AM absorbed the power of the Anti Matter Universe, he traveled back to the dawn of time to rewrite all of history from the beginning. The remaining heroes(minus the Mages) traveled back to the dawn of time to stop him. When they arrived, they learned that AM was actually waiting there for them because he used nearly all the power he absorbed from the Anti Matter Universe to get to the dawn of time. He then absorbed the power of the heroes because he no longer had sufficient energy to restart history the way he'd intended. Then the Spectre showed up backed by the power of the Mages to stop him, and STILL failed. That means that the Wrath of God was unable to put down the combined powers of Earth's heroes, not that he was unable to put down the Anti Monitor. As I said, PIS at its finest.

Yo.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Shortly after AM absorbed the power of the Anti Matter Universe, he traveled back to the dawn of time to rewrite all of history from the beginning. The remaining heroes(minus the Mages) traveled back to the dawn of time to stop him. When they arrived, they learned that AM was actually waiting there for them because he used nearly all the power he absorbed from the Anti Matter Universe to get to the dawn of time. He then absorbed the power of the heroes because he no longer had sufficient energy to restart history the way he'd intended. Then the Spectre showed up backed by the power of the Mages to stop him, and STILL failed. That means that the Wrath of God was unable to put down the combined powers of Earth's heroes, not that he was unable to put down the Anti Monitor. As I said, PIS at its finest.

but the goal of Spectre there wasnt to put down the AM, but to keep him from making the anti-U the SOLE universe made in the Creation Burst. and he ACCOMPLISHED that goal.

the fact that he didnt do so *easily* simply illustrated the powerfulness of his opponent (whom U could argue wasnt COMPLETELY draind of power since he *was* able to do wat he did to that hero assualt).




Tazer

Originally posted by Nikkolas


Anti-Monitor - Used tech to absorb universe by universe into his Anti-Matter Universe.

?

Calling bullshit.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry Trick but I have to disagree. Even if you work under the assumption that the DC universe's were just as strong as a "standard" universe, AM still never possessed the power of the ENTIRE multiverse because he was still 5 universes shy of reaching THAT level of power. The UN can wipe out an ENTIRE multiverse with a single blast, so it should have more than enough power to wipe out AM.

THE universes were actually the same lvl as the marvels. That myth was retconned out when Krona was charged with releasing entropy instead of breaking the universes down.At any rate, The AM had the power of the Multiverses AND the AM universe which was equal. don't forget that the monitors say that the AM had destroyed an infinite amount. ALso the spectre shot a creation destroying and remaking blast at the AM and he survived it. There for the AM would survive the UN without much of a problem.

Originally posted by Mider999
some poeple think that he didnt die because spectre didnt wanna hurt the heroes wasnt that when he got punished for not stopping anti monitor or someone even when he could?

Anyway it depends on who is using the UN not anyone can just use it and destroy the multiverse it takes someone like galactus to do that and how did that from what im to understand

I"ve been saying this for ever. Quasar for instance, cannot wield the UN like Reed or Galactus. Thus Quasar could never release a multiverse destroying blast.

Originally posted by grey fox
Calling bullshit.

1) Never say that again
2) The AM used tech quite explicitly at some points

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
1) Never say that again
2) The AM used tech quite explicitly at some points

I say what I like , secondly AM was destroying/absorbing universes under his own power. The cannon thing was just to speed things up.

Originally posted by grey fox
I say what I like

Even though Trickster says it constantly?

Originally posted by grey fox
secondly AM was destroying/absorbing universes under his own power. The cannon thing was just to speed things up.

Besides the AM universe where do we see that he was absolutely doing it under his own power?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Even though Trickster says it constantly?



Besides the AM universe where do we see that he was absolutely doing it under his own power?

Calling Bullshit is a reasonably well used phrase.

Secondly prove to me that Anti-monitor DID use tech to absorb the universes. If so I'll shut up.

Originally posted by grey fox
Calling Bullshit is a reasonably well used phrase.

Secondly prove to me that Anti-monitor DID use tech to absorb the universes. If so I'll shut up.

It has been perverted

Wasn't he really pissed when Flash destroyed the machine? If he could do it under his own power why would he care since there was no chance of stopping him anyway?

I'll admit I can't give absolute proof that he used tech but the only one where we know for certain that he didn't was the AM universe.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It has been perverted

Wasn't he really pissed when Flash destroyed the machine? If he could do it under his own power why would he care since there was no chance of stopping him anyway?

I'll admit I can't give absolute proof that he used tech but the only one where we know for certain that he didn't was the AM universe.

He was pissed because he wanted to hurry the process along and was caught by the 'interlopers' from his soon-to-be power. It's like you trying to microwave a slice of bacon quickly instead of cooking it slowly only to discover a fly has somehow destroyed your microwave.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It has been perverted

Wasn't he really pissed when Flash destroyed the machine? If he could do it under his own power why would he care since there was no chance of stopping him anyway?

I'll admit I can't give absolute proof that he used tech but the only one where we know for certain that he didn't was the AM universe.

Funny how half the people on this forum agree with me that AM didn't use tech.

And how is my saying 'calling BS' a perversion?

Of course he was pissed, that canon took awhile to build. But destroy the remaining universes he did. He just couldn't take out the very last one.

And the reason you can't give absolute proof is because there is none. And every bit of evidence is against you. AM was powerful enough to turn the great GL battery on Oa's energies back onto itself. HE TURNED THE BATTERIES ENERGY BACK ONTO ITSELF AND DESTROYED THE GUARDIANS EASILY.

Credit to Galan for this.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
THE universes were actually the same lvl as the marvels. That myth was retconned out when Krona was charged with releasing entropy instead of breaking the universes down.At any rate, The AM had the power of the Multiverses AND the AM universe which was equal. don't forget that the monitors say that the AM had destroyed an infinite amount. ALso the spectre shot a creation destroying and remaking blast at the AM and he survived it. There for the AM would survive the UN without much of a problem.
Wrong. The Anti Matter Universe was one of the many PARTS of the Multiverse, it wasn't the equal in and of itself. And as I've already pointed out, AM sacrificed a lot of the Anti Matter Universe's power every time he destroyed one of the positive matter universes, so there's no way he could have had the accumulated power of ALL the universes. And since there's no way AM even had power equivalent to that of Multi Eternity(being 5 universes shy of a complete multiverse), it's completely within the bounds of the UN's power to take him out with a single blast.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Funny how half the people on this forum agree with me that AM didn't use tech.
Yeah, the half that prefer DC to Marvel.

Let's see, the destruction of the first of the positive matter universes was a fluke that was accomplished through tech and the destruction of the last 5 universes was going to be accomplished through tech, but for some reason we're supposed to ASSUME that AM took out EVERY single one of those other universes under his own power even though that's never actually established? Seems like something of a stretch in my book. That's not even mentioning the fact that before AM amped himself up by absorbing energy from the Anti Matter Universe, he was nearly killed by Supergirl, which is a clear indication that AM was no where NEAR as powerful as many would like people to believe when the positive matter universes were destroyed.

Originally posted by grey fox
He was pissed because he wanted to hurry the process along and was caught by the 'interlopers' from his soon-to-be power. It's like you trying to microwave a slice of bacon quickly instead of cooking it slowly only to discover a fly has somehow destroyed your microwave.
His using the cannon because he was impatient doesn't really make sense for these reasons...

1. He spend BILLIONS of years slowly whittling down the number of positive matter universes, so another year or so to destroy the remaining 5 doesn't really seem like that big of a deal.

2. The only universe he DID destroy on panel(the Anti Matter Universe) contained far more power than the 5 remaining universes, and he absorbed it in SECONDS. So if he COULD have destroyed the remaining universes without tech, it would have much faster for him to do so without building a big ass cannon.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wrong. The Anti Matter Universe was one of the many PARTS of the Multiverse, it wasn't the equal in and of itself. And as I've already pointed out, AM sacrificed a lot of the Anti Matter Universe's power every time he destroyed one of the positive matter universes, so there's no way he could have had the accumulated power of ALL the universes. And since there's no way AM even had power equivalent to that of Multi Eternity(being 5 universes shy of a complete multiverse), it's completely within the bounds of the UN's power to take him out with a single blast.

WRONG. the Am was not just one part of the Multiverse. It was the equal and opposite of the entire Infinite verse. WTF. It's why the Anti Monitor was the Yin to the Yang of the Monitor. And the Monitor watched the entire multiverse. your theory is just debunk. And The UN is not taking out the Am. The Am is more than the multiternity. He was More powerful than the blast from the Spectre.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
WRONG. the Am was not just one part of the Multiverse. It was the equal and opposite of the entire Infinite verse. WTF. It's why the Anti Monitor was the Yin to the Yang of the Monitor. And the Monitor watched the entire multiverse. your theory is just debunk. And The UN is not taking out the Am. The Am is more than the multiternity. He was More powerful than the blast from the Spectre.
Except that the Monitors already said recently that it was some kind of quirk or twist of fate that there was only one monitor rather than one for each universe. And since the Anti Matter Universe was created at the same time as the rest of the DC universes, I really don't see how the Anti Matter Universe could have been as strong as the rest combined. Now if you have any PROOF to support that claim, I'll be more than willing to take a look at it, but at this point all you're basing your argument off of is speculation(which is pretty much normal for you).

Originally posted by darthgoober
Except that the Monitors already said recently that it was some kind of quirk or twist of fate that there was only one monitor rather than one for each universe. And since the Anti Matter Universe was created at the same time as the rest of the DC universes, I really don't see how the Anti Matter Universe could have been as strong as the rest combined. Now if you have any PROOF to support that claim, I'll be more than willing to take a look at it, but at this point all you're basing your argument off of is speculation(which is pretty much normal for you).

Goober, you're outright wrong.

This scan is part of the proof that you are wrong.

Credit to Galan for this.

The Guardians are just now senseing the imposing danger to ALL that is....

"We need the complete Green Lantern Corps...... And even then, I fear for our success!".

Anti-Monitor speaks to the Guardians, and blasts them away like children. He did this through their own power source :
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6974/am8ib4.th.jpg

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Goober, you're outright wrong.

This scan is part of the proof that you are wrong.

Credit to Galan for this.

The Guardians are just now senseing the imposing danger to ALL that is....

"We need the complete Green Lantern Corps...... And even then, I fear for our success!".

Anti-Monitor speaks to the Guardians, and blasts them away like children. He did this through their own power source :
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6974/am8ib4.th.jpg
Ok if I'm wrong, then prove it. What does that scan show exactly? It shows Anti Monitor KOing some skyfather level characters, using an outside power up(the Central Battery), while the skyfather level characters are caught off guard. Do you REALLY consider it to be THAT great of a feat? The UN could easily wipe out the Guardians and the GL Corps at the same time, so I don't get how you're seeing that scan as putting AM over the UN. Here let me break it down for you...

1. AM DIDN'T have the power of a full multiverse at his disposal, due to the 5 remaining positive matter universes. I don't care how many universes power he DID have, it still wasn't the COMPLETE multiverse.

2. The UN can wipe out a COMPLETE multiverse with a single shot.

That means that the UN can wipe out AM with ease, because a single blast from it is capable of wiping out all the power that AM DID have and then some. In fact, even if AM DID destroy the entire DC multiverse, he'd still only HAVE the power of a multiverse backing him(which would make him equal to Multi Eternity), the UN could STILL take him out with a single blast because the UN is capable of wiping out an entire Multiverse.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok if I'm wrong, then prove it. What does that scan show exactly? It shows Anti Monitor KOing some skyfather level characters, using an outside power up(the Central Battery), while the skyfather level characters are caught off guard. Do you REALLY consider it to be THAT great of a feat? The UN could easily wipe out the Guardians and the GL Corps at the same time, so I don't get how you're seeing that scan as putting AM over the UN. Here let me break it down for you...

1. AM DIDN'T have the power of a full multiverse at his disposal, due to the 5 remaining positive matter universes. I don't care how many universes power he DID have, it still wasn't the COMPLETE multiverse.

2. The UN can wipe out a COMPLETE multiverse with a single shot.

That means that the UN can wipe out AM with ease, because a single blast from it is capable of wiping out all the power that AM DID have and then some. In fact, even if AM DID destroy the entire DC multiverse, he'd still only HAVE the power of a multiverse backing him(which would make him equal to Multi Eternity), the UN could STILL take him out with a single blast because the UN is capable of wiping out an entire Multiverse.
Here is where I have to correct you. He already had the power of the Anti matter Universe. The AM universe was already the equal and opposite of all the Multiverses. So he had that power in addition to the Positive universes that he did absorb which was nearly infinite.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok if I'm wrong, then prove it. What does that scan show exactly? It shows Anti Monitor KOing some skyfather level characters, using an outside power up(the Central Battery), while the skyfather level characters are caught off guard. Do you REALLY consider it to be THAT great of a feat? The UN could easily wipe out the Guardians and the GL Corps at the same time, so I don't get how you're seeing that scan as putting AM over the UN. Here let me break it down for you...

1. AM DIDN'T have the power of a full multiverse at his disposal, due to the 5 remaining positive matter universes. I don't care how many universes power he DID have, it still wasn't the COMPLETE multiverse.

2. The UN can wipe out a COMPLETE multiverse with a single shot.

That means that the UN can wipe out AM with ease, because a single blast from it is capable of wiping out all the power that AM DID have and then some. In fact, even if AM DID destroy the entire DC multiverse, he'd still only HAVE the power of a multiverse backing him(which would make him equal to Multi Eternity), the UN could STILL take him out with a single blast because the UN is capable of wiping out an entire Multiverse. wow. i am reverting back to my original argument. un could take out am. thanks goober. i figured people were twisting up am's feats.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Except that the Monitors already said recently that it was some kind of quirk or twist of fate that there was only one monitor rather than one for each universe. And since the Anti Matter Universe was created at the same time as the rest of the DC universes, I really don't see how the Anti Matter Universe could have been as strong as the rest combined. Now if you have any PROOF to support that claim, I'll be more than willing to take a look at it, but at this point all you're basing your argument off of is speculation(which is pretty much normal for you).
Um NO. The Antimonitor was angry that the positive universes were encroaching upon his. ANd since you want to be an ass and say that's pretty much normal for me, catch this, the monitor's say in the recent countdown that had the monitor had a monitor for each universe, then the Crisis might not have happened. He was the only one to guard the Multiverse and the AM was the only guardian of the antimatter universe. and here is a kick for you in the head. In the original trial of krona, he was punished for splitting the Original universe and weakening them. Thus the original Antimatter universe was really on the power of one regular universe and the infinite earths were all weaker. But when DC retconned krona's trial into him releasing entropy, they amde each infinite earths a regular full strength universe but on a different vibrational plain. Thus retconning the infinite earths to each be a full strength universe retconned the Antimatter universe to be thier equal and thus making it the equal of the entire inifnite earth's multiverse. Game set and match. Now chew my leather. Base that off of speculation.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um NO. The Antimonitor was angry that the positive universes were encroaching upon his. ANd since you want to be an ass and say that's pretty much normal for me, catch this, the monitor's say in the recent countdown that had the monitor had a monitor for each universe, then the Crisis might not have happened. He was the only one to guard the Multiverse and the AM was the only guardian of the antimatter universe. and here is a kick for you in the head. In the original trial of krona, he was punished for splitting the Original universe and weakening them. Thus the original Antimatter universe was really on the power of one regular universe and the infinite earths were all weaker. But when DC retconned krona's trial into him releasing entropy, they amde each infinite earths a regular full strength universe but on a different vibrational plain. Thus retconning the infinite earths to each be a full strength universe retconned the Antimatter universe to be thier equal and thus making it the equal of the entire inifnite earth's multiverse. Game set and match. Now chew my leather. Base that off of speculation. i never trust a word u say. u always exaggerate. un kills am with one shot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
i never trust a word u say. u always exaggerate. un kills am with one shot.

Shut the **** up. I'm the one who showed the tards that the Universes were no longer weaker. And posted links to scans to prove it. And then someone else posted scans to back me. Now shut the **** up you lil troll. You just hate the fact that i'm right. Now if i'm wrong prove it or eat shit.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Here is where I have to correct you. He already had the power of the Anti matter Universe. The AM universe was already the equal and opposite of all the Multiverses. So he had that power in addition to the Positive universes that he did absorb which was nearly infinite.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um NO. The Antimonitor was angry that the positive universes were encroaching upon his. ANd since you want to be an ass and say that's pretty much normal for me, catch this, the monitor's say in the recent countdown that had the monitor had a monitor for each universe, then the Crisis might not have happened. He was the only one to guard the Multiverse and the AM was the only guardian of the antimatter universe. and here is a kick for you in the head. In the original trial of krona, he was punished for splitting the Original universe and weakening them. Thus the original Antimatter universe was really on the power of one regular universe and the infinite earths were all weaker. But when DC retconned krona's trial into him releasing entropy, they amde each infinite earths a regular full strength universe but on a different vibrational plain. Thus retconning the infinite earths to each be a full strength universe retconned the Antimatter universe to be thier equal and thus making it the equal of the entire inifnite earth's multiverse. Game set and match. Now chew my leather. Base that off of speculation.
Proof?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Shut the **** up. I'm the one who showed the tards that the Universes were no longer weaker. And posted links to scans to prove it. And then someone else posted scans to back me. Now shut the **** up you lil troll. You just hate the fact that i'm right. Now if i'm wrong prove it or eat shit. chill out with the insults. geez u get so worked up over comic book arguments. just cuz someone agreed with u does that make it right? nope. nice try but the un has shown its power and could be more than willing to take out am.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Proof?

go find it your ****ing selt. Since I speculate so much. I'd just love for you to look a fool like the other who tried to say the Universes were weaker. Since you opened up your mouth to insult me. and try reading count down if your going to be discussing anything to do with the Anti monitor. it might help you debate this more.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
go find it your ****ing selt. Since I speculate so much. I'd just love for you to look a fool like the other who tried to say the Universes were weaker. Since you opened up your mouth to insult me. and try reading count down if your going to be discussing anything to do with the Anti monitor. it might help you debate this more.
So what you're saying is that you HAVE no proof?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
go find it your ****ing selt. Since I speculate so much. I'd just love for you to look a fool like the other who tried to say the Universes were weaker. Since you opened up your mouth to insult me. and try reading count down if your going to be discussing anything to do with the Anti monitor. it might help you debate this more. quit insulting people. put a stop to it at once. just debate comics. and show ur proof. no need to insult everyone who disagrees with u.

Originally posted by quanchi112
quit insulting people. put a stop to it at once. just debate comics. and show ur proof. no need to insult everyone who disagrees with u.

Mods are gonna come in

IMO, UN ftw

Good to see the AM back

Originally posted by darthgoober
So what you're saying is that you HAVE no proof?

So what i'm saying is you don't. I've already posted the proof before when I proved that the universes were NOT weaker. It's not on me to post it again. Find it yourself or the post of the other person who posted the actual pics for me. It seems to me you saying I"m speculating when you dont' what your talking about makes you look silly. And I don't appreciate the attack when you have none and had nothing to counter to say I was speculating. you NEVER do.

the proof some people on here constitute as proof sometimes isnt proof at all. its not black and white and is usually tilted over to ones viewpoint.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So what i'm saying is you don't. I've already posted the proof before when I proved that the universes were NOT weaker. It's not on me to post it again. Find it yourself or the post of the other person who posted the actual pics for me. It seems to me you saying I"m speculating when you dont' what your talking about makes you look silly. And I don't appreciate the attack when you have none and had nothing to counter to say I was speculating. you NEVER do.
Bullshit you never posted anything of the kind in a debate with me. And I don't see why you're getting your panties in a wad at my pointing out that you don't post proof anyway when by your own admission...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Put it this way, do you HAVE any proof to back up your claims?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I never do. and then someone comes along sooner or later and post it. I prefer it that way. that way when people call me nvrhadaclue, Like when I said that krona didn't create the multiverse and they said I was clueless, Some months later, someone posted the actuality of what I said. It makes me feel creamy inside when people eat thier words. :P

Originally posted by quanchi112
the proof some people on here constitute as proof sometimes isnt proof at all. its not black and white and is usually tilted over to ones viewpoint.

This I can agree with.i have surmised as much and we all have our viewpoints. Even looking at the same scans. One of the most intelligent and shortest post you have ever put up. Congrats.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
This I can agree with.i have surmised as much and we all have our viewpoints. Even looking at the same scans. One of the most intelligent and shortest post you have ever put up. Congrats. u like d how i summed u up. im glad u admit it.congrats to u. this is a breakthrough.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Bullshit you never posted anything of the kind in a debate with me. And I don't see why you're getting your panties in a wad at my pointing out that you don't post proof anyway when by your own admission...

YOu know I don't like you. So it's easy to guess my panties would be in a bunch if you insult me. At any rate, I didn't post it in a debate with you persay. It was posted none the less when someone tried to make the false claim that DC's universes where weaker. I only had links to someone elses site, but later on, someone came and posted. I'll tell you what. since i'm bored and it's 100 degrees in chicago right now and I'm not going out, I'll actually do a post and scan and explain why the Am Universe is equal to all the Infinite Earths.

Originally posted by quanchi112
u like d how i summed u up. im glad u admit it.congrats to u. this is a breakthrough.

I have no problem with your views if you would use some logic. You seak only to derail every feat of DS. It's ok tho. I do the same to Thanos. LMAO.

you know if you guys want proof why don't you just chech AM's respect thread yourself? do you really need someone to point it out for you?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
YOu know I don't like you. So it's easy to guess my panties would be in a bunch if you insult me. At any rate, I didn't post it in a debate with you persay. It was posted none the less when someone tried to make the false claim that DC's universes where weaker. I only had links to someone elses site, but later on, someone came and posted. I'll tell you what. since i'm bored and it's 100 degrees in chicago right now and I'm not going out, I'll actually do a post and scan and explain why the Am Universe is equal to all the Infinite Earths.
Good for you .

Originally posted by Superherovandal
you know if you guys want proof why don't you just chech AM's respect thread yourself? do you really need someone to point it out for you?
I don't need to look at the respect thread because I have the entire COIE run. That's why I'm asking for proof because I know that there ISN'T any.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Good for you .

And it sucks. Searching all over the web trying to find scans from other people is so blah. I hate you for this. But I'm sticking to it. I'm sure you've already found out that I was right and are just not posting it cuz it would back me up. So like you.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And it sucks. Searching all over the web trying to find scans from other people is so blah. I hate you for this. But I'm sticking to it. I'm sure you've already found out that I was right and are just not posting it cuz it would back me up. So like you.
Tell you what, you tell me the issue and page number and I"LL post it for you.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't need to look at the respect thread because I have the entire COIE run. That's why I'm asking for proof because I know that there ISN'T any.

You can't get the proof from the COIE run. You have to get the history of Krona, The Retcons, The countdown and pull it all together. And even the dc sites have the Am being the equal of all the matter universes. you forget that originally krona weakened all of the matter universes and that all of them were mere shades of the once whole universe. But the Am universe was never touched. It was just one universe. But then DC retconned Krona to releasing entropy and he never weakened the universe. BUT the AM universe was still the equal of all the positives. Thus making the ONe AM universe equal to the full powered infinites. It's that simple. But I'll find the krona retcon since you must see it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm asking for proof because I know that there ISN'T any.

How dickish of you

Originally posted by darthgoober
Tell you what, you tell me the issue and page number and I"LL post it for you.

I dont' remember. It's really old. It was a retcon where Krona releases entropy intead of weakening the multiverse. If that helps. I'm trying to find it again.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You can't get the proof from the COIE run. You have to get the history of Krona, The Retcons, The countdown and pull it all together. And even the dc sites have the Am being the equal of all the matter universes. you forget that originally krona weakened all of the matter universes and that all of them were mere shades of the once whole universe. But the Am universe was never touched. It was just one universe. But then DC retconned Krona to releasing entropy and he never weakened the universe. BUT the AM universe was still the equal of all the positives. Thus making the ONe AM universe equal to the full powered infinites. It's that simple. But I'll find the krona retcon since you must see it.
List the issue/arc numbers for all those rectons you're clinging to, and I'll research them myself.

Originally posted by darthgoober
List the issue/arc numbers for all those rectons you're clinging to, and I'll research them myself.
I'm searching now. The countdown has the part about the Am absorbing infinite universes. I'll be wiht you in about 10 minutes. I'm running some searches now to find them.

This is hilarious, nvr getting pwned left and right.

hopefully for his own sake he can prove what he's saying is right.

Originally posted by King Kandy
This is hilarious, nvr getting pwned left and right.

You are an idiot. I'm not getting pwned. Obviously he didn't read the retcons or the countdown. Now hush up. I'm working on something.

Shut up... You got owned far before you started searching for the issue number... Mostly on the last two pages.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Shut up... You got owned far before you started searching for the issue number... Mostly on the last two pages.

He didn't pwn anything. He didn't do his research or he would know all that i'm about to post. He was only going by COIE. and that is his mistake. everything I'm talking about happened becuz of retcons and becuz of the history of the multiverse. You should have just kept quit until I got thru. Instead you wanted to partake in my pwning and feel cool. Now you can partake in me schooling someone.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He didn't pwn anything. He didn't do his research or he would know all that i'm about to post. He was only going by COIE. and that is his mistake. everything I'm talking about happened becuz of retcons and becuz of the history of the multiverse. You should have just kept quit until I got thru. Instead you wanted to partake in my pwning and feel cool. Now you can partake in me schooling someone.
I've already pwned you enough to get my fill of it...

Originally posted by King Kandy
I've already pwned you enough to get my fill of it...

You barely own your house and computer. You certainly haven't pwned me. Now hush. I'm about to start posting issue numbers and why I'm right. Take a seat and relax a while.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
hopefully for his own sake he can prove what he's saying is right.
You mean me or nvr?

Legends tell of a wave of evil spreading through the universe, of the shattering of all reality, the creation of an antimatter universe mirroring the prime universe. The positive and negative universes created the Monitors, they were born on the moons of Oa and Qward. The Monitor and the Anti-Monitor would become mortal enemies. Krona's act had other consequences, too. The Positive universe was splintered into the multiverse.

For his crimes, Krona was reduced to a disembodied prison of pure energy.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Legends tell of a wave of evil spreading through the universe, of the shattering of all reality, the creation of an antimatter universe mirroring the prime universe. The positive and negative universes created the Monitors, they were born on the moons of Oa and Qward. The Monitor and the Anti-Monitor would become mortal enemies. Krona's act had other consequences, too. The Positive universe was splintered into the multiverse.

For his crimes, Krona was reduced to a disembodied prison of pure energy.
Which means what? What exactly does ANY of that prove?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Which means what? What exactly does ANY of that prove?

It's giving you the issue numbers. It's telling how The AM and the monitor where equal. one over the positive and one over the negative. Also it showns how the positive was broken into weaker universes. Thus the Monitor was guardian over all those universes While the Am's universe never was broken. But the clinch is when DC retconned Kronas crime. I'm geting to that next.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's giving you the issue numbers. It's telling how The AM and the monitor where equal. one over the positive and one over the negative. Also it showns how the positive was broken into weaker universes. Thus the Monitor was guardian over all those universes While the Am's universe never was broken. But the clinch is when DC retconned Kronas crime. I'm geting to that next.
I want to know where it's stated that the Anti Matter Universe was as powerful as the entire DC multiverse, BEFORE AM started using the anti matter wave to destroy the positive matter universes.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I want to know where it's stated that the Anti Matter Universe was as powerful as the entire DC multiverse, BEFORE AM started using the anti matter wave to destroy the positive matter universes.

It was stated that they were Mirror realities, BEFORE The positive universe where splintered.I gave you the issue numbers. What you wanted. If I have to research more, I'll find more. I'm sure I can get it. I'm search for the Krona retcon to link it all.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It was stated that they were Mirror realities, BEFORE The positive universe where splintered.I gave you the issue numbers. What you wanted. If I have to research more, I'll find more. I'm sure I can get it. I'm search for the Krona retcon to link it all.
Cool, I got confused because of the number if issue numbers you posted. So which of those issues was the one to talk about the mirror realities?

Ok. So this is it. Krona's Experiment resulted in the release of Entropy shortening the universes life span. This was the 3rd retcon. The first was he released evil. The 2nd was that he created the Antimatter universe and the multiverse of the positive universe. They retconned again the 3rd time and said that he released entropy. Now what is important to note is that when they did this retcon, they established that the universes weren't weaker any more. hence the need for krona to have a new crime. As of countdown, as far as i can tell from spoilers and such, krona will be responsible again for the creation of the multiverse, BUT, his crime is still for releasing entropy. Thus he isn't punished for weakening the universes becuz that was explained as a creation of the presence or something like that in a spectre book. I dont' have the issues. Forgive me. So in fact, Via the many retcons, The AM universe was the equal of all of the positive infinites earths. I gave the issue numbers already, just had to make sure I got all the info in them correct.

good job nvr

Ok. I don't have exact issue numbers, But I can summise the story and I see if you agree. According to the story it goes like this: ( Taken from wiki and other sites)

During the Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was also revealed to be the cause of the existence of all parallel universes in the Multiverse; several villains were sent back in time to stop him, but were defeated by Krona and the other Oans. In a final revision, it was established that it increased entropy in the universe, shortening its existence by a billion years (see heat death). In any event, two beings were created on both the moon of Oa and the moon of Qward. On the moon of Oa, the being known as the Monitor was instantly aware of his counterpart, the Anti-Monitor (although his official name is the Monitor, and he is often addressed as such, the name Anti-Monitor is used to distinguish him from his heroic positive matter counterpart). The two beings battled for a million years, unleashing great powers against each other, but to no avail. At the end of their stalemate, the two beings rendered each other inert for nine billion years with a simultaneous attack.


Crisis on Infinite Earths( This part is important to look at)

He then released a massive anti-matter wave, absorbing the energies of the destroyed positive matter universes and growing stronger even as his counterpart grew weaker. The Anti-Monitor also employed the second Psycho Pirate, using his emotion control powers to terrorize the populations of the planets he sought to conquer and destroy. The Monitor, along with his aide Harbinger, gathered a group of heroes from various alternate universes in order to combat the threat of the Anti-Monitor.

Notice how when he destroyed the positive universes, He grew stronger as his counter grew weaker. Remember earlier that they were a stalemate and could not defeat each other. This would denote that the AM and his universe were indeed the equal of the Monitor and all his universes. Becuz the Monitor would grow weaker with every desroyed universe while ThE AM would grow stronger and so would his universe.

I hope This clears up my statement. I am not the best poster by far, and not even an eloquent speaker, But I dont' just pull stuff out of my ass if i can help it. Unless it's just to be a dick. But you'll know it. This time I was serious.

Originally posted by KRS-Brandon
good job nvr

Thanks. I did my best. I'm really a lazy poster LOL. If I had the mojo, I prolly would go and pull all of those old comics out and scan them. There has got to be a better way to get them all on the puter. I hope I explained myself clear enough. Issue numbers are all listed.

I thought anyone who read Crisis understood what you just described?
They were exact equals, then Pariah accidentally destroyed his reality and it woke the Anti-Monitor, who was now more powerful than Monitor was.
It clearly describes that, and that the anti-matter universe gains in power with each destroyed matter universe in the book itself.

Originally posted by Juntai
I thought anyone who read Crisis understood what you just described?
They were exact equals, then Pariah accidentally destroyed his reality and it woke the Anti-Monitor, who was now more powerful than Monitor was.
It clearly describes that, and that the anti-matter universe gains in power with each destroyed matter universe in the book itself.

It seems not everyone got it it. And there were alot of retcons.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Now what is important to note is that when they did this retcon, they established that the universes weren't weaker any more.
Where did they establish that? And remember, not mentioning it isn't the same as establishing something to the contrary.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Ok. I don't have exact issue numbers, But I can summise the story and I see if you agree. According to the story it goes like this: ( Taken from wiki and other sites)

During the Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was also revealed to be the cause of the existence of all parallel universes in the Multiverse; several villains were sent back in time to stop him, but were defeated by Krona and the other Oans. In a final revision, it was established that it increased entropy in the universe, shortening its existence by a billion years (see heat death). In any event, two beings were created on both the moon of Oa and the moon of Qward. On the moon of Oa, the being known as the Monitor was instantly aware of his counterpart, the Anti-Monitor (although his official name is the Monitor, and he is often addressed as such, the name Anti-Monitor is used to distinguish him from his heroic positive matter counterpart). The two beings battled for a million years, unleashing great powers against each other, but to no avail. At the end of their stalemate, the two beings rendered each other inert for nine billion years with a simultaneous attack.


Crisis on Infinite Earths( This part is important to look at)

He then released a massive anti-matter wave, absorbing the energies of the destroyed positive matter universes and growing stronger even as his counterpart grew weaker. The Anti-Monitor also employed the second Psycho Pirate, using his emotion control powers to terrorize the populations of the planets he sought to conquer and destroy. The Monitor, along with his aide Harbinger, gathered a group of heroes from various alternate universes in order to combat the threat of the Anti-Monitor.

Notice how when he destroyed the positive universes, He grew stronger as his counter grew weaker. Remember earlier that they were a stalemate and could not defeat each other. This would denote that the AM and his universe were indeed the equal of the Monitor and all his universes. Becuz the Monitor would grow weaker with every desroyed universe while ThE AM would grow stronger and so would his universe.

I hope This clears up my statement. I am not the best poster by far, and not even an eloquent speaker, But I dont' just pull stuff out of my ass if i can help it. Unless it's just to be a dick. But you'll know it. This time I was serious.
Sounds fairly accurate, but I don't recall it ever being established that the Anti Matter Universe itself was as powerful as the DC Multiverse, so you're going to have to point me in the direction of that particular scan.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Where did they establish that? And remember, not mentioning it isn't the same as establishing something to the contrary.

You got me on that one. I did read it tho. That the universes weren't weaker any more, just on different vibrating plains. It was later established that the multiverse was a creation of the presence. In the spectre I believe. Juntia would know the issue better than me. But Really it boilds down to is that Krona was originally punished for splintering the Multiverse. DC rectconned this thus making the universes being weaker a non issue. As in never happened. he instead killed a billion years of life off of the Universes. I can search some more. i'm sure i'll find it. It's a daunting task with so many retcons and the confusing history of the multiverse.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sounds fairly accurate, but I don't recall it ever being established that the Anti Matter Universe itself was as powerful as the DC Multiverse, so you're going to have to point me in the direction of that particular scan.

When the universe was destroyed becuz the other guy tried to replicate krona's experiment, It awoken the AM from the double sleep they both put each other in becuz they were both exactly matched. He destroyed his universe and woke up the AM and made him more powerful than the monitot. With just that one universe. Thus denoting that the AM universe was indeed as powerful as the entire multiverse.

Ok do I pass or do I need to do more? have I proven that the Am Universe was indeed already equal to the entire multiverse. Thus showing That he indeed could take a blast from the Un seeing as how he already was as powerful as a multiverse and had most of another as well. He was really nearly as powerful as Two multiverses if you look at it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Ok do I pass or do I need to do more? have I proven that the Am Universe was indeed already equal to the entire multiverse. Thus showing That he indeed could take a blast from the Un seeing as how he already was as powerful as a multiverse and had most of another as well. He was really nearly as powerful as Two multiverses if you look at it. He also survived Spectre completely shattering and changing all reality.

Originally posted by Juntai
He also survived Spectre completely shattering and changing all reality.

Yeah. I read that. That was intersting. What I want to try and get at is if The other multiverses count in this shattering and recreation of the other realities. It was more than one multiverse and still is as we have seen. Would all reality encompass the DC omniverse? By all accounts of everything I'm finding, The AM was the most powerful being ever in the DC comics history That is not a part of God himself.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You got me on that one. I did read it tho. That the universes weren't weaker any more, just on different vibrating plains. It was later established that the multiverse was a creation of the presence. In the spectre I believe. Juntia would know the issue better than me. But Really it boilds down to is that Krona was originally punished for splintering the Multiverse. DC rectconned this thus making the universes being weaker a non issue. As in never happened. he instead killed a billion years of life off of the Universes. I can search some more. i'm sure i'll find it. It's a daunting task with so many retcons and the confusing history of the multiverse.
Again, were did they recton the universes being weaker than the split? And remember again that not mentioning it isn't the same as changing it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
When the universe was destroyed becuz the other guy tried to replicate krona's experiment, It awoken the AM from the double sleep they both put each other in becuz they were both exactly matched. He destroyed his universe and woke up the AM and made him more powerful than the monitot. With just that one universe. Thus denoting that the AM universe was indeed as powerful as the entire multiverse.
And the Monitors recently stated that there SHOULD have been more than one Monitor, and it was a quirk or twist of fate that there wasn't. That doesn't prove that the Anti Matter Universe was the equal of the DC multiverse.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again, were did they recton the universes being weaker than the split? And remember again that not mentioning it isn't the same as changing it.


And the Monitors recently stated that there SHOULD have been more than one Monitor, and it was a quirk or twist of fate that there wasn't. That doesn't prove that the Anti Matter Universe was the equal of the DC multiverse.

What does prove they were equal was the fact that niether monitor was superior to the other. But in the COIE, when one of the positive universes died, The Am instantly became stroner than the Monitor. If the Am was only the power of one of the universes then the Monitor would have one still been superior to the AM, but we know that is false becuz they were stalemated. Which is how the whole story kinda starts off. And They retconned the origin of krona's punishment, Thus the universes being weaker NEVER happened.

Closing. Too many reports. Also, I'll refrain from official warnings this time, but watch yourself nvr. Goober asking for proof could be construed as simple debating curiosity, not an excuse to go on a swearing tirade and demanding that he read more comics before taking part in the discussion. People will disagree with you anywhere in life, but dealing with it like that shows a lack of maturity.