Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

H/P Doomsday vs Thanos(before he was killed)


who wins????

Thanos has battlefield removal options, though it would be fairly uncommon for him to incorporate them.
Other than runnin and hiding or teleporting Doomsday away, Doomsday smashes him up.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos has battlefield removal options, though it would be fairly uncommon for him to incorporate him.
Other than runnin and hiding or teleporting Doomsday away, Doomsday smashes him up.

thanos wins

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos has battlefield removal options, though it would be fairly uncommon for him to incorporate them.
Other than runnin and hiding or teleporting Doomsday away, Doomsday smashes him up.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos has battlefield removal options, though it would be fairly uncommon for him to incorporate them.
Other than runnin and hiding or teleporting Doomsday away, Doomsday smashes him up. uhm he dismissed champion when he came in spouting about taking revenge for taking his power gem once upon a time. quit underestimating thanos.

Thanos is a bit more powerful than Doomsday is, and I can't recall a time where Thanos has been overcome by physical might. Keep in mind that this is a Doomsday that got suppressed by melted stone.

Not only that, but keep in mind that Thanos has killed Surfer in a manner of a few blows, given pause to Galactus himself, dismisses herald level types like nothing, etc. Thanos is just on another scale. To be honest, anyone who says otherwise might need to read up on Thanos. No offense.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
Thanos is a bit more powerful than Doomsday is, and I can't recall a time where Thanos has been overcome by physical might. Keep in mind that this is a Doomsday that got suppressed by melted stone.

Not only that, but keep in mind that Thanos has killed Surfer in a manner of a few blows, given pause to Galactus himself, dismisses herald level types like nothing, etc. Thanos is just on another scale. To be honest, anyone who says otherwise might need to read up on Thanos. No offense. again the man makes good points. thanos in a physical slugfest is pretty uber. where ds lacks physcial toughness in close quarters his marvel counterpart excels at this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
again the man makes good points. thanos in a physical slugfest is pretty uber. where ds lacks physcial toughness in close quarters his marvel counterpart excels at this.

Woman.

Woman makes good points.

.

How would Doomsday fare against Mangog, because Thanos (retrospectively a clone) had Mangog as his servant and never seemed to threatened by him.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Woman.

Woman makes good points.

. sorry my bad.

Originally posted by JuanJohnboy
H/P Doomsday vs Thanos(before he was killed)


who wins????

Thanos

I'm confused as to why people feel the need to put (before he was killed) in threads where one of the combatants are dead.

Because they couldn't exactly fight if they were dead and the majority of posters aren't retards, so they could work it out for themselves. It just seems a little silly if you ask me, does anybody put "Captain Mar-Vell" (before he was dead)? No, because he's been dead for ages. But if you put Captain America or Thanos in a thread you get the whole (before he was dead) thing? What sense does that make?

.

Okay, I'm done.

Doomsday, if Thanos doesn't resort to BFR.

Yeah, Thanos wins this fight.

how does thanos win? h/p took the omega effect, ko'd darkseid in a couple shots, crushed a mother-box amped/apokalip-tech-amped superman and was only eventually beaten when he was dropped off at the end of time when wave rider (also uber-powerful) was forced to help superman.

i see thanos having nothing in the way of energy that trumps the OE or the energy 'god-guardian' that dd crushed, nor is thanos clearly the physical superior of darkseid nor an amped superman.

without resorting to bfr which is an option for him, how exactly does he beat dd?

Originally posted by Wally West
How would Doomsday fare against Mangog, because Thanos (retrospectively a clone) had Mangog as his servant and never seemed to threatened by him.

Not to mention a Mangog that forced Thor to use a last-ditch attempt to defeat with one of his most powerful attacks (the anti-force), and even then is a being that's about ten times stronger than Thor.


Thanos made him to look like a fool.

If BFR is an option...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Thanos/pwned4.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
h/p took the omega effect

So has Superman



Supes did that too in Superman/Batman, even crushing Darkseid's arm.



Neither of the two you just mentioned are close to Thanos in power, skill, experience, etc. Beating herald level guys is moot when you can kill them easily like Thanos can.



The problem is that Thanos does have attacks better than the Omega Effect. He was crushing Galactus Punishers (who in their own right are top tier in power) with ease, and blasted Galactus across an entire planet (a Galactus that was well fed to boot). Physically, he made a Thor who had stalemated the Infinity Watch and defeated Beta Ray Bill before getting ahold of the Power Gem look like a fool as well.

It's obvious that Thanos is physically superior and more powerful. This isn't a foot race.



By beating Doomsday into the ground and/or blasting him into nothingness.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
By beating Doomsday into the ground and/or blasting him into nothingness.

Brilliant. It's not like Doomsday has some sort of adaptive abilites.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
Not to mention a Mangog that forced Thor to use a last-ditch attempt to defeat with one of his most powerful attacks (the anti-force), and even then is a being that's about ten times stronger than Thor.


Thanos made him to look like a fool.

really? when exactly did he do that? we actually have no idea why mangog allied himself with thanos. i'd like to see the occasion where he made mangog look like a fool . . .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Brilliant. It's not like Doomsday has some sort of adaptive abilites.

Didn't seem to work for him too well as Doomsday Rex.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
Didn't seem to work for him too well as Doomsday Rex.

Ain't this H/P Doomsday we're using?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Ain't this H/P Doomsday we're using?

Well, at their base they're the same dude. Though he can evolve, he never made a gigantic evolution to really save his ass against someone more powerful than him. If he did evolve, Thanos would probably vaporize him. Worked when Imperiex did it (not that I'm saying they're comparitive in power)

Originally posted by Artemis1860
Well, at their base they're the same dude. Though he can evolve, he never made a gigantic evolution to really save his ass against someone more powerful than him. If he did evolve, Thanos would probably vaporize him. Worked when Imperiex did it (not that I'm saying they're comparitive in power)

If youre not comparing them dont use it as an example because we all know that Imperiex could one shot Thanos if he wanted to as well. You seriously said that Thanos has attacks superior to the OE? You do realize Imperiex is a being more powerful that Galactus and DS's OE is the main reason they took him down

Originally posted by Kurash
I missed the point completely, Artemis. Please, be a nice lady and fill me in.

Alright, even though you were rude, little boy, I'll play fair.

You see, when Doomsday was reduced to a skeleton, he couldn't reform without help. Since it's not outside of Thanos' power to reduce someone around that power level to ash, the maneuver would work.

This educational moment was brought to you by Badabing Motors. He'll make you an offer you can't refuse.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
Alright, even though you were rude, little boy, I'll play fair.

Was the huge outpouring of irony here intentional?

Originally posted by Artemis1860
You see, when Doomsday was reduced to a skeleton, he couldn't reform without help. Since it's not outside of Thanos' power to reduce someone around that power level to ash, the maneuver would work.

What's your basis that Thanos can reduce Doomsday to ash?

Originally posted by Artemis1860
Alright, even though you were rude, little boy, I'll play fair.

You see, when Doomsday was reduced to a skeleton, he couldn't reform without help. Since it's not outside of Thanos' power to reduce someone around that power level to ash, the maneuver would work.

This educational moment was brought to you by Badabing Motors. He'll make you an offer you can't refuse.

You write in your own quote and call me rude? Ill let that slide

What makes you think THanos can reduce Doomsday to ash? Since hes only been reduced to ash by Imperiex, who is about 100 times stronger than Thanos what makes you think he can do it as well?

Originally posted by Artemis1860
Alright, even though you were rude, little boy, I'll play fair.



Bwahahahahahahahaa

Little boy......... It's a bi like Kid

Originally posted by Kurash
What makes you think THanos can reduce Doomsday to ash? Since hes only been reduced to ash by Imperiex, who is about 100 times stronger than Thanos what makes you think he can do it as well?

....

You make it sound as if Doomsday could only have it done to him by Imperiex. So, by that logic, Doomsday Clones can only be destroyed by Amazon Weapons, Exploding Batarangs, and Superman heat vision.

I think Thanos reduced Thor to a skeleton (I think) with an eyeblast in one of those comics where he was teamed with Mangog, reducing someone/thing to ash might be possible for him, although I don't know about doing it to Doomsday.

Other possible avenues Thanos might try, he was able to brainwash a herald of Galactus with no effort at all and said Fallen One would have no choice at all about it (not sure if that was a mental power or matter manipulation, I lead towards the latter).

Also he was able to bind Phyla-Vell in alien energies that even she couldn't manipulate, which is no small feat, and bound Odin for a small time inside a block of pure force, I would think if he could subdue Doomsday or bind him that would count as a victory.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
You make it sound as if Doomsday could only have it done to him by Imperiex. So, by that logic, Doomsday Clones can only be destroyed by Amazon Weapons, Exploding Batarangs, and Superman heat vision.

He's asking you to prove that Thanos is on that level of power. Or give an example of Thanos vaporizing someone of Doomsday's powerlevel.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
....

You make it sound as if Doomsday could only have it done to him by Imperiex. So, by that logic, Doomsday Clones can only be destroyed by Amazon Weapons, Exploding Batarangs, and Superman heat vision.

Youre missing the point completely. Its not my logic that DD can only be destroyed by Imperiex, i just dont understand how you can come to that conclusion by comparing Imperiex's power with Thanos'. Its like comparing the Surfer's power with Jubliee's

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He's asking you to prove that Thanos is on that level of power.


THE POWER STARLIN FLOWS!!!!!


Just kidding. Thanos is much less powerful than Imperiex. I think he's just being silly.



I'd figure vaping those Punisher Robots would be enough, but there's others. He did kill The Maker as well.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
So has Superman

true, but he never ko'd him and the battle lasted a LONG time. dd was FAR stronger than even an amped superman in h/p. and frankly, superman is pretty well capable of beating anyone if dc decides that should be the case. i may not like it, but it's a fact that has been born out too many times to be dismissed.



and a sun-dipped superman is in thanos's strength class as well.



morg did pretty well against thanos once upon a time.



he surprised g and he most certainly did NOT send him across an entire planet . . . nor did his attack actually have any effect whatsoever on g physically. the one time we saw the OE used on galactus it was no more or less effective than thanos was. non-canon, clearly, but still at least something by which to gauge.



meaningless in light of what ds has done in the past to the jla and losh. you wanna look at JUST ds's recent past, fine. i can say there is no way drax would stab ds and kill him as he did thanos.





clearly physically superior and more powerful than whom? he's not 'clearly' more powerful than a sun-dipped superman, darkseid OR h/p doomsday.





okay, if you say so. h/p was able to adapt to kill a being composed of PURE energy. he adapted in mid-battle to superman's amped attacks. waverider couldn't even HARM him by the end of the fight.

you can go on about how ss jobs to thanos all you like. morg went h2h with thanos and drax killed him. believe what you'd like -- i doubt anyone can change your mind which appears to have been made up before the debate even began anyway -- but this is most certainly not the curbstomp you wanna think it is. energy and physical power won't get it done against this version of dd. unless you're imperiex of course.

Originally posted by leonidas
true, but he never ko'd him and the battle lasted a LONG time. dd was FAR stronger than even an amped superman in h/p. and frankly, superman is pretty well capable of beating anyone if dc decides that should be the case. i may not like it, but it's a fact that has been born out too many times to be dismissed.



and a sun-dipped superman is in thanos's strength class as well.



morg did pretty well against thanos once upon a time.



he surprised g and he most certainly did NOT send him across an entire planet . . . nor did his attack actually have any effect whatsoever on g physically. the one time we saw the OE used on galactus it was no more or less effective than thanos was. non-canon, clearly, but still at least something by which to gauge.



meaningless in light of what ds has done in the past to the jla and losh. you wanna look at JUST ds's recent past, fine. i can say there is no way drax would stab ds and kill him as he did thanos.





clearly physically superior and more powerful than whom? he's not 'clearly' more powerful than a sun-dipped superman, darkseid OR h/p doomsday.





okay, if you say so. h/p was able to adapt to kill a being composed of PURE energy. he adapted in mid-battle to superman's amped attacks. waverider couldn't even HARM him by the end of the fight.

you can go on about how ss jobs to thanos all you like. morg went h2h with thanos and drax killed him. believe what you'd like -- i doubt anyone can change your mind which appears to have been made up before the debate even began anyway -- but this is most certainly not the curbstomp you wanna think it is. energy and physical power won't get it done against this version of dd. unless you're imperiex of course.


Is Artemis a guy or a girl? Her posting style seems very masculine.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
I'd figure vaping those Punisher Robots would be enough, but there's others. He did kill The Maker as well.

I don't know the PunisherRobots well enough to gague their powerlevel so I can't say anything about that.

He didn't overpower the Maker though. He knew exactly how to attack her mind.

Originally posted by cyber tuff guy!
Is Artemis a guy or a girl? Her posting style seems very masculine.

I'm a girl, goofy. Just because I'm not flirting doesn't mean I don't have a vagina.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I don't know the PunisherRobots well enough to gague their powerlevel so I can't say anything about that.

He didn't overpower the Maker though. He knew exactly how to attack her mind.

Well, it wasn't just a mental attack, he still had to kill her physically.

As for the Punishers? Well, let's just say that they're pretty uber. I'm pretty sure that one of them beat the F4 on its own, and some Avengers members. Been awhile since I read the saga.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
I'm a girl, goofy. Just because I'm not flirting doesn't mean I don't have a vagina.

Your aggressive behaviour and kind of calling people names like little boy "kid" just reminds me of the average internet tough guy. As does this very aggressive post above. You seem an angry person.

Originally posted by Wally West
I think Thanos reduced Thor to a skeleton (I think) with an eyeblast in one of those comics where he was teamed with Mangog, reducing someone/thing to ash might be possible for him, although I don't know about doing it to Doomsday.

Other possible avenues Thanos might try, he was able to brainwash a herald of Galactus with no effort at all and said Fallen One would have no choice at all about it (not sure if that was a mental power or matter manipulation, I lead towards the latter).

Also he was able to bind Phyla-Vell in alien energies that even she couldn't manipulate, which is no small feat, and bound Odin for a small time inside a block of pure force, I would think if he could subdue Doomsday or bind him that would count as a victory.

a thanos clone reduced hulk to a skeleton but he healed from it almost immediately. gl's also have great matter manip feats AND can attack foes mentally. dd wiped out a . . . LOT of green lanterns . . .

he might bind dd for a time, but he would be strong enough to break fre or adapt to the energy.

the only way would be some massive energy attack, a la imperiex, but i don't think thanos has the juice to dish out the kind of punishment it would take to overwhelm dd before he was able to adapt and take out thanos.

Originally posted by cyber tuff guy!
Your aggressive behaviour and kind of calling people names like little boy "kid" just reminds me of the average internet tough guy.

Ah. No, that was more or less just my tactic to get him mad, silly. Besides, most people seem masculine on the net, unless they do massive e-flirting, which isn't my thing.

Originally posted by cyber tuff guy!
Your aggressive behaviour and kind of calling people names like little boy "kid" just reminds me of the average internet tough guy. As does this very aggressive post above. You seem an angry person.

nice sig.

Originally posted by Artemis1860
Ah. No, that was more or less just my tactic to get him mad, silly. Besides, most people seem masculine on the net, unless they do massive e-flirting, which isn't my thing.

Isn't trying to get people mad an internet tough guy tactic?

Originally posted by leonidas
nice sig.

Thank you, I like your possting style by the way. Full but not quite an essay and I didn't get bored reading it.

Originally posted by cyber tuff guy!
Isn't trying to get people mad an internet tough guy tactic?

No, I'd think that being mad would be the Net tough guy tactic.

Getting people mad is the tactic of an a**hole

Originally posted by Artemis1860
No, I'd think that being mad would be the Net tough guy tactic.

Getting people mad is the tactic of an a**hole

Not really most internet tough guys pretend to be ambivalent about what is said to them until they "lose face" and explode. Losing face on the internet is also a ridiculous idea. So why the Darkseid/Doomsday hate?

Originally posted by Artemis1860
Ah. No, that was more or less just my tactic to get him mad, silly. Besides, most people seem masculine on the net, unless they do massive e-flirting, which isn't my thing.



...the default assumption is "male" unless you flirt like Femme or something.

Also, quit with the bashing and spam or I'll close the thread and issue formal warnings to those who deserve it.

Originally posted by leonidas
a thanos clone reduced hulk to a skeleton but he healed from it almost immediately. gl's also have great matter manip feats AND can attack foes mentally. dd wiped out a . . . LOT of green lanterns . . .

he might bind dd for a time, but he would be strong enough to break fre or adapt to the energy.

the only way would be some massive energy attack, a la imperiex, but i don't think thanos has the juice to dish out the kind of punishment it would take to overwhelm dd before he was able to adapt and take out thanos.
Has Doomsday gone up against any of the big name GLs? Rookies wouldn't really pose a problem for him.

Phyla-Vell couldn't break free from the bounds he put her in, but then I guess her strength level isn't compareable to Doomsday (thats if strength alone could break those energy bindings), I wouldn't like to guess how Doomsday compares to Odin in strength though. If Thanos could imprison him briefly, I think it could work against Doomsday for a short time, maybe enough to buy him time to think up a plan, he is one of the smartest characters in comics.

I think Thanos is capable of a massive energy attack, his body can house massives ammount of cosmic energy, in Celestial Quest is absorbed all of the Rot and released it which made the universe 'scream', and he absorbed the HOTU in the same way, absorbing it into his body. Against his clone he amped himself up with cosmic energy, I think releasing a huge energy attack isn't beyond him, but not on Imperiex level.

Originally posted by Wally West
Has Doomsday gone up against any of the big name GLs? Rookies wouldn't really pose a problem for him.

He fought a Guardian srug

Originally posted by Wally West
Has Doomsday gone up against any of the big name GLs? Rookies wouldn't really pose a problem for him.

Phyla-Vell couldn't break free from the bounds he put her in, but then I guess her strength level isn't compareable to Doomsday (thats if strength alone could break those energy bindings), I wouldn't like to guess how Doomsday compares to Odin in strength though. If Thanos could imprison him briefly, I think it could work against Doomsday for a short time, maybe enough to buy him time to think up a plan, he is one of the smartest characters in comics.

I think Thanos is capable of a massive energy attack, his body can house massives ammount of cosmic energy, in Celestial Quest is absorbed all of the Rot and released it which made the universe 'scream', and he absorbed the HOTU in the same way, absorbing it into his body. Against his clone he amped himself up with cosmic energy, I think releasing a huge energy attack isn't beyond him, but not on Imperiex level.

he trashed guy, who's a very very solid gl and went against a fuggin guardian. at the same time he wrecked the rest of the league.

and you may be right -- i'm not ruling out the possibility of thanos winning this. i disagree entirely it is a curbstomp, and a battle that can be decided upon very quickly. imo, thanos isn't THAT far above ds that he could effortlessly handle someone who wiped out ds in a couple panels AND withstood the OE. and who made a fool of an amped superman and a herld-leveller in waverider . . .

call me crazy, but i don't think this is all that clear cut.

Originally posted by cyber tuff guy!
Thank you, I like your possting style by the way. Full but not quite an essay and I didn't get bored reading it.



well, thanks. i hate reading essays too and have pretty much given up the debates that require them.

wish others would . . . but, too each their own.

Not all Guardians and Lanterns are created equal. Look at Kyle Rayner. Cosmic plummer.



I'm glad you're debating this fairly. Well, let me tell you a bit more of my opinion. Clones of Thanos who are weaker than him have shrugged off opponents on par with or superior to Heralds, and Heralds themselves (Firelord, Mangog, Thor, etc) and he seems so far above them in power that it's ridiculous. Though Doomsday has done some nutty stuff, he didn't seem more powerful at all than Thanos has in the past.

Originally posted by leonidas
he trashed guy, who's a very very solid gl and went against a fuggin guardian. at the same time he wrecked the rest of the league.

and you may be right -- i'm not ruling out the possibility of thanos winning this. i disagree entirely it is a curbstomp, and a battle that can be decided upon very quickly. imo, thanos isn't THAT far above ds that he could effortlessly handle someone who wiped out ds in a couple panels AND withstood the OE. and who made a fool of an amped superman and a herld-leveller in waverider . . .

call me crazy, but i don't think this is all that clear cut. I've no idea who takes this fight really, I'm just trying to throw out ideas on how Thanos might pull out a win without BFR based on his powers, trying to open things up for a bit of dicussion. I think ultimately if Thanos were to win it he would need to subdue/imprison Doomsday in someway, rather than killing him, if he can do that without prep I don't know.

Originally posted by leonidas
he surprised g and he most certainly did NOT send him across an entire planet . . . nor did his attack actually have any effect whatsoever on g physically. the one time we saw the OE used on galactus it was no more or less effective than thanos was. non-canon, clearly, but still at least something by which to gauge.

While I agree with a lot of what you're saying leo, I did feel the need to address this. When Thanos blasted Galactus, it caused more damage to Big G than any other single attack I've ever seen. It tore up his armor, and blasted his helmet clear off the guy. In the instance with DS vs Galactus you mentioned on the other hand, Big G took DS's OE without a mark to show for it.

Just thought I'd point that out.

Thanos

Thanos does well against bricks because he OUTHINKS them and has the durability to take it to h2H if he needs to .

Thanos would knwo that killing H/P Doomsday would be fultile he would look for a way to immobilize DD.

Immobilizing him didn't work for the Guardians...... 2nd, Thanos beat Doomsday in a slugfest? That's the worst possible way to fight Doomsday. And frankly, Thanos isn't that dumb. If they start slugging it out, Thanos will quickly realize that he can't win a slugfest. Energy powers are dicey. I don't believe Thanos can muster the power to one-shot Doomsday. And if he can't kill him fast, Doomsday will adapt and turn himself into a second Drax (Thanos-kryptonite). I'm fairly sure DD is immune to matter manip and I know he's immune to TP.

Of course if you allow BFR, Thanos everytime. H/P DD was an idiot. He didn't get a brain until DD Rex and he didn't fully exploit and master his powers until Gog Wars.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Immobilizing him didn't work for the Guardians...... 2nd, Thanos beat Doomsday in a slugfest? That's the worst possible way to fight Doomsday. And frankly, Thanos isn't that dumb. If they start slugging it out, Thanos will quickly realize that he can't win a slugfest. Energy powers are dicey. I don't believe Thanos can muster the power to one-shot Doomsday. And if he can't kill him fast, Doomsday will adapt and turn himself into a second Drax (Thanos-kryptonite). I'm fairly sure DD is immune to matter manip and I know he's immune to TP.


This post just made it into a book.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3425/gift14gs6.jpg


How many millions did DC pay you to say that? Being a DC bot might pay well. Should I get my resume in now?

You''re the one who's biased if you think Thanos can slug it out with DD and win. And btw, DD could have recovered from the Imperiex blast, it just would have taken him a long time. I think they estimated a 1000 years?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
http://www.annezelenka.com/images/crying_baby.gif




Yeah, that's still a loss.

Another possibility, Thanos has drained lifeforce from beings in the past and rekindled it in the case of the Silver Surfer, would Doomsday be immune to that sort of attack.

thanos succeeds here where darkseid failed miserably. thanos for the win.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos has battlefield removal options, though it would be fairly uncommon for him to incorporate them.
Other than runnin and hiding or teleporting Doomsday away, Doomsday smashes him up.

Originally posted by darthgoober
While I agree with a lot of what you're saying leo, I did feel the need to address this. When Thanos blasted Galactus, it caused more damage to Big G than any other single attack I've ever seen. It tore up his armor, and blasted his helmet clear off the guy. In the instance with DS vs Galactus you mentioned on the other hand, Big G took DS's OE without a mark to show for it.

Just thought I'd point that out.

IW pierced his entire body, i'd say that was worse and done by a much lesser power. and it doesn't change the fact that the attack did no damage whatsoever aside from the superficial tattering of the armor.

ds's OE actually erased g, (at least made him vanish to . . . ) if for only a short time.

i have an exceptionally difficult time thinking thanos could in anyway beat him physically. i'd say even thanos would know he couldn't do that. does he have energy enough to one-shot him? seems doubtful to me, but thanos's greatest weapon is his mind and that's something that is difficult to rule out OR debate.

Originally posted by leonidas
IW pierced his entire body, i'd say that was worse and done by a much lesser power. and it doesn't change the fact that the attack did no damage whatsoever aside from the superficial tattering of the armor.

ds's OE actually erased g, (at least made him vanish to . . . ) if for only a short time.

i have an exceptionally difficult time thinking thanos could in anyway beat him physically. i'd say even thanos would know he couldn't do that. does he have energy enough to one-shot him? seems doubtful to me, but thanos's greatest weapon is his mind and that's something that is difficult to rule out OR debate.

Co-signed. Thanos IS a super-genius. And I'm not saying he can't win either. I'm just saying that he can't win in a slugfest. That's suicide for him, and I think I know the character well enough that I believe he would realize that.

Originally posted by leonidas
but thanos's greatest weapon is his mind and that's something that is difficult to rule out OR debate.

I agree with that.

Thanos doesn't always require prep in order to come up with something, his mind still works in combat. Since it's almost impossible for us to predict what sort of plan he would come up with, it's very difficult to debate.

Thanos' durability should give him enough time to come up with something though. I don't think Doomsday would automatically win if he got up close with him.

Originally posted by leonidas
IW pierced his entire body, i'd say that was worse and done by a much lesser power. and it doesn't change the fact that the attack did no damage whatsoever aside from the superficial tattering of the armor.

ds's OE actually erased g, (at least made him vanish to . . . ) if for only a short time.

i have an exceptionally difficult time thinking thanos could in anyway beat him physically. i'd say even thanos would know he couldn't do that. does he have energy enough to one-shot him? seems doubtful to me, but thanos's greatest weapon is his mind and that's something that is difficult to rule out OR debate.
IW has a plot device powersource that allowed her to destoy a Celestial, so her piercing Big G's armor doesn't mean a lot. Other than IW(who I'd honestly forgotten about), the Inbetweener, and Thanos, I honestly cant think of anyone who's cause any kind of serious damage to Big G's armor.

And it was never established that Big G "vanished" or anything similar in that arc. It's true that there was an odd visual effect, but it could just as easily be interpreted that the OE had NO effect what so ever, and that visual effect was just the OE trying unsuccessfully to erase Galactus. But what's NOT open to interpretation is that that this was Galactus directly following DS's blast...
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1466/dg42dy7.jpg

And this was Galactus directly following Thanos's blast...
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4996/thanos0507sq4.jpg

From the look of it, I'd say that Thanos had a bit more of an effect on Galactus overall.

Originally posted by darthgoober
IW has a plot device powersource that allowed her to destoy a Celestial, so her piercing Big G's armor doesn't mean a lot. Other than IW(who I'd honestly forgotten about), the Inbetweener, and Thanos, I honestly cant think of anyone who's cause any kind of serious damage to Big G's armor.

And it was never established that Big G "vanished" or anything similar in that arc. It's true that there was an odd visual effect, but it could just as easily be interpreted that the OE had NO effect what so ever, and that visual effect was just the OE trying unsuccessfully to erase Galactus. But what's NOT open to interpretation is that that this was Galactus directly following DS's blast...
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1466/dg42dy7.jpg

And this was Galactus directly following Thanos's blast...
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4996/thanos0507sq4.jpg

From the look of it, I'd say that Thanos had a bit more of an effect on Galactus overall.

You do realize that the visual effect that is drawn on Galactus is the same exact one that has been drawn since 1971 as the OE erasing someone right? Big G got erased and willed himself back. He even mentions DS great power. Thanos Gets a Nod from Big G for his tech.

Its really a tough call. The longer the fight goes on the more it sways in the direction of doomsday. If Thanos cant muster the energy to one-shot Doomsday (which i really dont think he can, thats a lot of power) then its very possible that DD could become immune to most of his energy attacks. DD doesnt have to die to become immune to attacks, there were instances when fighting waverider and superman that previous attacks used against him that had worked suddenly became ineffective. If thanos doesnt put him down quick DD could become resilent to most of his energy, and I dont like Thanos' chances if the battle came down to a slugfest. I could see this going either way

IF THanos is as powerful as a guardian, he wins. I doubt it, but he wins at the cost of his life.

Originally posted by Kurash
Its really a tough call. The longer the fight goes on the more it sways in the direction of doomsday. If Thanos cant muster the energy to one-shot Doomsday (which i really dont think he can, thats a lot of power) then its very possible that DD could become immune to most of his energy attacks. DD doesnt have to die to become immune to attacks, there were instances when fighting waverider and superman that previous attacks used against him that had worked suddenly became ineffective. If thanos doesnt put him down quick DD could become resilent to most of his energy attacks, and I dont like Thanos' chances if the battle came down to a slugfest. I could see this going either way

DD adapted to the might of a guardian over several seconds.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You do realize that the visual effect that is drawn on Galactus is the same exact one that has been drawn since 1971 as the OE erasing someone right? Big G got erased and willed himself back. He even mentions DS great power. Thanos Gets a Nod from Big G for his tech.
Prove that he willed himself back, as opposed to just being unaffected.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Prove that he willed himself back, as opposed to just being unaffected.

non-canon

Originally posted by Kurash
non-canon
According to nvr, there's only ONE DS in all of DC. According to him, that means that ANY appearance DS EVER makes is cannon(including DS from JLU). That means that while the fight may not be cannon to 616 Galactus(who's the most powerful version of Galactus) it IS cannon as far as DS is concerned. It also means that DS's performance against Thanos(in which Thanos was able to match blast with DS) from Marvel vs DC is cannon as far as DS is concerned also. And so is Batman being able to avoid the Omega Blast from the Justice League Unlimited cartoon through speed and agility.

Originally posted by darthgoober
According to nvr, there's only ONE DS in all of DC. According to him, that means that ANY appearance DS EVER makes is cannon(including DS from JLU). That means that while the fight may not be cannon to 616 Galactus(who's the most powerful version of Galactus) it IS cannon as far as DS is concerned. It also means that DS's performance against Thanos(in which Thanos was able to match blast with DS) from Marvel vs DC is cannon as far as DS is concerned also. And so is Batman being able to avoid the Omega Blast from the Justice League Unlimited cartoon through speed and agility.

I have not mentioned DS from JLU. and it really doesn't matter since DS has the ability to spread his mind every where via avatars. Anyway, Batman avoiding the Omega effect would have to happen in the Justice League Animated book. I don't remember seeing it. at any rate, DS spreads his mind around alot. Avatars for the win to explain my theory. Anyway, The OE erase effect was in full effect. Big G just willed himself back together. Not so hard to comprehend and many others agree with me that that is what happened. Certainly you don't think that DS can make the spectre howl in pain but will have " NO EFFECT" on big G. rediculous.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I have not mentioned DS from JLU. and it really doesn't matter since DS has the ability to spread his mind every where via avatars. Anyway, Batman avoiding the Omega effect would have to happen in the Justice League Animated book. I don't remember seeing it.

No it happened in the animated series, ask batdude if you want the exact episode.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
at any rate, DS spreads his mind around alot. Avatars for the win to explain my theory.
Proof?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Anyway, The OE erase effect was in full effect. Big G just willed himself back together. Not so hard to comprehend and many others agree with me that that is what happened.
Again prove it. Point out the part of the book where it's mentioned in any way, shape, or form that Galactus had to "will" himself back. But if you think about, even if you are right about G and the OE(which again, is pure speculation), Galactus wasn't able to "will" away the damage that Thanos caused so....

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Certainly you don't think that DS can make the spectre howl in pain but will have " NO EFFECT" on big G. rediculous.
You miss the point, I don't think that the OE SHOULD hurt Spectre unless he was weaker than Galactus.

Originally posted by darthgoober
IW has a plot device powersource that allowed her to destoy a Celestial, so her piercing Big G's armor doesn't mean a lot. Other than IW(who I'd honestly forgotten about), the Inbetweener, and Thanos, I honestly cant think of anyone who's cause any kind of serious damage to Big G's armor.

And it was never established that Big G "vanished" or anything similar in that arc. It's true that there was an odd visual effect, but it could just as easily be interpreted that the OE had NO effect what so ever, and that visual effect was just the OE trying unsuccessfully to erase Galactus. But what's NOT open to interpretation is that that this was Galactus directly following DS's blast...
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1466/dg42dy7.jpg

And this was Galactus directly following Thanos's blast...
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4996/thanos0507sq4.jpg

From the look of it, I'd say that Thanos had a bit more of an effect on Galactus overall. How the hell could he not beat Thor with pg, yet he can knock down Galactus with a blast?

As far as avatars go, it's mentioned several times, and in fact, if Seven Soldiers is canon (as the new Firestorm with Shilo seems to confirm), then you have an avatar right there, along with Darkseid creating other dimensions.

Originally posted by starking
How the hell could he not beat Thor with pg, yet he can knock down Galactus with a blast?
He was upgraded between his fights with Thor w/PG and Odin, and that blast against Galactus.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No it happened in the animated series, ask batdude if you want the exact episode.


Proof?

Again prove it. Point out the part of the book where it's mentioned in any way, shape, or form that Galactus had to "will" himself back. But if you think about, even if you are right about G and the OE(which again, is pure speculation), Galactus wasn't able to "will" away the damage that Thanos caused so....


You miss the point, I don't think that the OE SHOULD hurt Spectre unless he was weaker than Galactus.

The OE should hurt anyone as it is a direct gift and power directly linked to the source.

I was saying that DS in JLU animated does not count unless it happens in the DCU animated comic book. The Animated series is NOT connected to DS. You have never heard me say that DS from other mediums was one and the same. Only DS from all comics.

Also, I dont' see Galactus needing to will himself back from Thanos sucker attack. DS attacks Big G head on. THanos does a one hit blast and catches big G off guard. I have no doubt that had DS released the Omega Force, He could have done the same. But since The Omega effect doesnt' have a pummel effect to it,( another reason why Doomsday must have been shot by the OF instead of the OE), Ds wouldnt' knock over Big G. Also, Big G doesn't really look phased to me after thanos attack. Thanos begs for his life after Big G attacks, DS gets blasted and gets back up with only his clothes tattered. Who do you think looks better in those showings? HMM? Any way, Doomsday wins becuz he made a guardian give up his life to remove him.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
As far as avatars go, it's mentioned several times, and in fact, if Seven Soldiers is canon (as the new Firestorm with Shilo seems to confirm), then you have an avatar right there, along with Darkseid creating other dimensions.
I'm not denying the existence of DS's avatars, I'm saying that you can't blame EVERY low showing of DS's on an avatar without proof.

True. But some idiots *cough* Quanchi *cough* don't acknowledge them.

Anyways, we are off-topic. Then again, there's not much to be said about this fight. Either Thanos figures out a method to beat DD (besides BFR if it's not allowed) or DD murders him.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not denying the existence of DS's avatars, I'm saying that you can't blame EVERY low showing of DS's on an avatar without proof.

I don't. But I just ignore them. Kinda Like I do with Odin's rediculous showings. Things like him running scared from villians thor eventually beats is crap. Or him Not beating THanos is crap. His high showings are too far ahead. Same with DS. DS high showings are too far ahead of the low ones to make sense. How can one be so powerful that his removal destroys time and yet he loses to a high tier brick like superman? How can he conquer the creation and have to be removed and put behind the source wall and every trace of him be retconned via a grandmother box, yet he loses to Doomsday? Doesn't make sense. I Do the same for galactus. Galactus has some truly horrible showings that dont' make sense. Villians fall victim to writers not knowing what to do with them. Look at Asmodel or Mephisto. Mephisto losing to Surfer is REDICULOUS. So I just dont' count the ones that are truly silly.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not denying the existence of DS's avatars, I'm saying that you can't blame EVERY low showing of DS's on an avatar without proof. Not to sound like I'm speculating or anything, but an avatar of Ds being used when he faced Superman and characters on his level, doesn't seem like a stretch by any means. Like Trickster said, an avatar could create a pocket dimension, and if it could do that, imagine what the REAL thing could do. Seeing how Seid has used done MANY things, that suggest top tier/herald level characters, shouldn't be on his level, then the avatar theory, may not be far from the truth.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The OE should hurt anyone as it is a direct gift and power directly linked to the source.
Surfer possesses the Power Cosmic(a gift from Galactus), but that doesn't mean that he can hurt anyone that Galactus can.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I was saying that DS in JLU animated does not count unless it happens in the DCU animated comic book. The Animated series is NOT connected to DS. You have never heard me say that DS from other mediums was one and the same. Only DS from all comics.
You didn't say any comic, you said any APPEARANCE.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Also, I dont' see Galactus needing to will himself back from Thanos sucker attack. DS attacks Big G head on. THanos does a one hit blast and catches big G off guard. I have no doubt that had DS released the Omega Force, He could have done the same.
Proof?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But since The Omega effect doesnt' have a pummel effect to it,( another reason why Doomsday must have been shot by the OF instead of the OE), Ds wouldnt' knock over Big G.
Except that it was directly stated in the book to be the OE, which proves that there IS some kind of "pummel effect" to it. The funny thing is that the only way you can prove that there's NOT a pummel effect to the OE, is to show someone surviving the OE.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Also, Big G doesn't really look phased to me after thanos attack.
Yeah, I'm sure that being blasted through the hull of a ship and having your armor all tore up constitutes being "unphased" .

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Thanos begs for his life after Big G attacks, DS gets blasted and gets back up with only his clothes tattered. Who do you think looks better in those showings?
You mean that DS was HELPED up by Orion don't you? Thanos got up on his own.

What's the point of talking about something, from a non canon comic?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer possesses the Power Cosmic(a gift from Galactus), but that doesn't mean that he can hurt anyone that Galactus can.


You didn't say any comic, you said any APPEARANCE.


Proof?


Except that it was directly stated in the book to be the OE, which proves that there IS some kind of "pummel effect" to it. The funny thing is that the only way you can prove that there's NOT a pummel effect to the OE, is to show someone surviving the OE.


Yeah, I'm sure that being blasted through the hull of a ship and having your armor all tore up constitutes being "unphased" .


You mean that DS was HELPED up by Orion don't you? Thanos got up on his own.

Um, THanos begged for his life after beign protected by a tech shield. DS got blasted and was not hurt. His clothes tattered. You tell me. And The OE does not have a pummel effect. The OE controls, Time, Space, matter manip, and souls. No pummel effect. It's the Omega Force that has the Pummel effect.

As for any appearance, It doesn't take a genious to know that this is a comic forum so I would mean any comic appearance.

Big G was unphased by Thanos's attack. If I burn my clothes but am unhurt, I"m going to say, I'm alright, i was unphased, or I'm not hurt.

Originally posted by starking
Not to sound like I'm speculating or anything, but an avatar of Ds being used when he faced Superman and characters on his level, doesn't seem like a stretch by any means. Like Trickster said, an avatar could create a pocket dimension, and if it could do that, imagine what the REAL thing could do. Seeing how Seid has used done MANY things, that suggest top tier/herald level characters, shouldn't be on his level, then the avatar theory, may not be far from the truth.
Exactly. Keyword there IMAGINE. In otherwords speculate with NO actual foundation beyond what we've seen. I can imagin a lot based off of Thanos's more recent showings, but how much of it would you support that had no proof backing it?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um, THanos begged for his life after beign protected by a tech shield. DS got blasted and was not hurt. His clothes tattered. You tell me.
If he was unhurt, he shouldn't have needed ANY help getting up. But he did now didn't he?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And The OE does not have a pummel effect. The OE controls, Time, Space, matter manip, and souls. No pummel effect. It's the Omega Force that has the Pummel effect.
Proof?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As for any appearance, It doesn't take a genious to know that this is a comic forum so I would mean any comic appearance.
This is a comic forum where the animated versions are discussed as well now isn't it? So are you now suggesting that there's actually MORE than one DS in DC?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Big G was unphased by Thanos's attack. If I burn my clothes but am unhurt, I"m going to say, I'm alright, i was unphased, or I'm not hurt.
If I knock you though a wall and destroy a part of your armor, whether or not you're able to fight back afterwards in no way suggest that you were "unphased". Being unphased by an attack means that you don't even register it and can go about with what you were doing.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Exactly. Keyword there IMAGINE. In otherwords speculate with NO actual foundation beyond what we've seen. I can imagin a lot based off of Thanos's more recent showings, but how much of it would you support that had no proof backing it? So do you think that real Ds, should be losing to Superman? Sometimes you don't have to have proof, for common sense can allow you to guide yourself, into believing what's logical and what's not.

Originally posted by starking
So do you think that real Ds, should be losing to Superman? Sometimes you don't have to have proof, for common sense can allow you to guide yourself, into believing what's logical and what's not.
It depends. Should DS be losing to Supes in a h2h fight...maybe, maybe not. CAN DS lose to Supes h2h, ABSOFREAKINLUTELY. It's happened to many times for it to be written off, it's just that simple.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It depends. Should DS be losing to Supes in a h2h fight...maybe, maybe not. CAN DS lose to Supes h2h, ABSOFREAKINLUTELY. It's happened to many times for it to be written off, it's just that simple. As in h2h combat, are you referring to Apokolips now, Action comics(whatever issue it was), and Superma/Batman? Because you know, those fights WERE NOT pure h2h fights. You base Supes being able to take Seid in a fist fight, from ONE a statement he made, about him being an honorable fighter. There's no weight to hold that statement, because it was in same story where the writer said, Ds shouldn't be the powerful cosmic that he truly is.

Did you see what happened, in that one action comics story? Supes just punched him, and threw him in a boomtube, like some kind of 5 dollar prostitute. Seid has honor, but he DOESN'T like to be humiliated, in such a way.

So why would he hold back against Clark, but when he faces Orion and Firestorm, he wtfpwns them with a wave from his hand? I smell bullshit, and Dc is making it.

Originally posted by starking
As in h2h combat, are you referring to Apokolips now, Action comics(whatever issue it was), and Superma/Batman? Because you know, those fights WERE NOT pure h2h fights. You base Supes being able to take Seid in a fist fight, from ONE a statement he made, about him being an honorable fighter. There's no weight to hold that statement, because it was in same story where the writer said, Ds shouldn't be the powerful cosmic that he truly is.

Did you see what happened, in that one action comics story? Supes just punched him, and threw him in a boomtube, like some kind of 5 dollar prostitute. Seid has honor, but he DOESN'T like to be humiliated, in such a way.

So why would he hold back against Clark, but when he faces Orion and Firestorm, he wtfpwns them with a wave from his hand? I smell bullshit, and Dc is making it.
I don't mean necessary PURE h2h fights, I mean primarily h2h. And I have TWO statements that lend credit to DS being an "honorable" fighter. How many statements do you have that suggest that he's a "win at any cost" type? Using things like BFR to progress a plan is one thing, but how many times has he used that kind of thing when all the planning and scheming are over, he's bloodlusted(meaning that he WANTS to finish the guy off), and his opponent is directly in front of him?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't mean necessary PURE h2h fights, I mean primarily h2h. And I have TWO statements that lend credit to DS being an "honorable" fighter. How many statements do you have that suggest that he's a "win at any cost" type? Using things like BFR to progress a plan is one thing, but how many times has he used that kind of thing when all the planning and scheming are over, he's bloodlusted(meaning that he WANTS to finish the guy off), and his opponent is directly in front of him? What's was the second statement. And I don't context that says Ds is a "win at any cost" type, but I have quit a few scans, that speak for themselfs.

http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkseidlobo15qu2fo.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fbbed877jpgorig8ta.jpg

http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkseidgl11ak9tc.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51e2a8jpgorig1qd.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51e29ejpgorig7xs.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51c251jpgorig1ij.jpg

http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e1jpgorig0yr.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e3jpgorig9zp.jpg

http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e3jpgorig9zp.jpg
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=action638012ic.jpg

http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fbd4f8d3jpgorig9mc.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb977015jpgorig8lu.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb977010jpgorig7cc.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=drfate1115rv6.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
If he was unhurt, he shouldn't have needed ANY help getting up. But he did now didn't he?

If I trip and fall, and someone assist me, does that mean I'm hurt? where were the blood streaks or Bruises? Surely Big G blasting someone while he seeks to humiliate them would show?

Proof?


This is a comic forum where the animated versions are discussed as well now isn't it? So are you now suggesting that there's actually MORE than one DS in DC?

people usually mention specific animation when referencing such. Your attempt to belittle me by coming up with a statement I never made is a retarded grasp. You can't say according to never, Batman can dodge the OE, when I never referenced said event. Especially since it is an animated feat. Retarded attempt at putting me down and rediculous bullshit that happens on KMC alot. Contriving statements against people to make them look silly when they never even said such things.




If I knock you though a wall and destroy a part of your armor, whether or not you're able to fight back afterwards in no way suggest that you were "unphased". Being unphased by an attack means that you don't even register it and can go about with what you were doing.

Galactus not only could fight back, He made Thanos beg for his life with THanos vuanted shield in place. He surely wasn't phased by Thanos' attack.

Originally posted by starking
What's was the second statement. And I don't context that says Ds is a "win at any cost" type, but I have quit a few scans, that speak for themselfs.
The statements I have are the one about h2h combat with DD, and the scan of him saying that though he may scheme, he never cheats.
Originally posted by starking

http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkseidlobo15qu2fo.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fbbed877jpgorig8ta.jpg
Notice he tells Lobo "You are nothing to me". That means you have an example of him getting a "cheap" win against someone that DS doesn't really feel is worth his time.
Originally posted by starking

http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkseidgl11ak9tc.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51e2a8jpgorig1qd.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51e29ejpgorig7xs.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb51c251jpgorig1ij.jpg
Yeah, notice that DS didn't actually resort to any "cheap" tactics there, he crushed Ryker's ring PHYSICALLY.
Originally posted by starking

http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e1jpgorig0yr.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e3jpgorig9zp.jpg

Again what does that prove? Secret didn't really have a chance against DS(at least from my limited knowledge on her) so DS removing her powers when he saw that as a greater punishment doesn't really contradict anything I've said.
Originally posted by starking

http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f880d1e3jpgorig9zp.jpg
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=action638012ic.jpg
What's the point there? DS OBVIOUSLY wasn't bloodlusted, because he said himself that his only purpose there was to finish his experiment.
Originally posted by starking

http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fbd4f8d3jpgorig9mc.jpg
Again, that wasn't an instance of DS being bloodlusted, that was him trying to further a scheme.
Originally posted by starking

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb977015jpgorig8lu.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fb977010jpgorig7cc.jpg
What "cheap" win did he go for there? He grabbed the guy by the neck and then blasted him. He didn't mind rape him or even OE the guy, all he did was blast him. If anything, that proves that DS's standard tactics when going 1 on 1 with Supes are more "in character" that what you believe.
Originally posted by starking

http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=drfate1115rv6.jpg
This is the only scan that you have that's even CLOSE to contradicting my examples. And if you'll notice, even Fate notices that there's something strange going on, which leads me to question the circumstances there.

Again, I'm not saying that DS won't resort to what he considerer's a "cheap" victory to further a plot or to rid himself of what he considers a pest, I'm saying that he doesn't do that kind of thing when he's bloodlusted and he's facing off against someone that he WANTS to put down.

Anyway, I gotta take off for a while, but we can pick this up later.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Notice he tells Lobo "You are nothing to me". That means you have an example of him getting a "cheap" win against someone that DS doesn't really feel is worth his time.

Yeah, notice that DS didn't actually resort to any "cheap" tactics there, he crushed Ryker's ring PHYSICALLY.

Again what does that prove? Secret didn't really have a chance against DS(at least from my limited knowledge on her) so DS removing her powers when he saw that as a greater punishment doesn't really contradict anything I've said.

What's the point there? DS OBVIOUSLY wasn't bloodlusted, because he said himself that his only purpose there was to finish his experiment.

Again, that wasn't an instance of DS being bloodlusted, that was him trying to further a scheme.

What "cheap" win did he go for there? He grabbed the guy by the neck and then blasted him. He didn't mind rape him or even OE the guy, all he did was blast him. If anything, that proves that DS's standard tactics when going 1 on 1 with Supes are more "in character" that what you believe.

This is the only scan that you have that's even CLOSE to contradicting my examples. And if you'll notice, even Fate notices that there's something strange going on, which leads me to question the circumstances there.

Again, I'm not saying that DS won't resort to what he considerer's a "cheap" victory to further a plot or to rid himself of what he considers a pest, I'm saying that he doesn't do that kind of thing when he's bloodlusted and he's facing off against someone that he WANTS to put down.

Anyway, I gotta take off for a while, but we can pick this up later.

Ive' seen DS kill many beings with out effort when he wants to put them down. That doesn't compute.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Notice he tells Lobo "You are nothing to me". That means you have an example of him getting a "cheap" win against someone that DS doesn't really feel is worth his time.So even though Lobo is on par with Superman, Ds finds him to be inferior, compared to the big S? If what your saying is true, then Dc likes to stroke Superman's cock, to the nth degree. And that's called a jobber aura, something not taken seriously around here. Btw, Lobo hurt his hands punching him, so that means ALOT.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah, notice that DS didn't actually resort to any "cheap" tactics there, he crushed Ryker's ring PHYSICALLY.Is that supposed to be sarcasm? If so, then Raker rushed over to Ds, ONLY to have his hand crushed. So to you, is that cheap because Ds destroyed Raker's ring, making him powerless? In that case, I could call it cheap whenever the Silver Surfer, is knocked off his board, but when it's WITH IN character's powerset, to take advantage of a character's achiles heal, then you can't call CHEAP on it, unless Seid did it when his guard was down.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again what does that prove? Secret didn't really have a chance against DS(at least from my limited knowledge on her) so DS removing her powers when he saw that as a greater punishment doesn't really contradict anything I've said.

What's the point there? DS OBVIOUSLY wasn't bloodlusted, because he said himself that his only purpose there was to finish his experiment.
It shows that Seid is capable of depowering beings, greater than Superman. And the problem with your point is, you base Ds off of being an honorable fighter, from ONE comic where the portrayal of the character is OFF. Unless of course, you can show me that second instance, where Ds said he was an honorable fighter


Originally posted by darthgoober
Again, that wasn't an instance of DS being bloodlusted, that was him trying to further a scheme.Why does he have to be bloodlusted? Ds can pwn people STRONGER than Superman with the Oe, yet when he faces Superman himself, he has it deflected. Meaning if your theory is right(which is speculation to me), then Darkseid holds back the TRUE power of the omega effect, which to me is more retarded, than being honorable. I mean how is using the Oe, is a cheap win? It's apart of his powerset, so he should be able to use it, as much as he wants. That's like saying Silver Surfer draining Hulk of his gamma energy is cheap, because he did with such ease.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What "cheap" win did he go for there? He grabbed the guy by the neck and then blasted him. He didn't mind rape him or even OE the guy, all he did was blast him. If anything, that proves that DS's standard tactics when going 1 on 1 with Supes are more "in character" that what you believe.I don't get it, not to sound like an idiot or anything, but can enlighten me on this?

Originally posted by darthgoober
This is the only scan that you have that's even CLOSE to contradicting my examples. And if you'll notice, even Fate notices that there's something strange going on, which leads me to question the circumstances there.Maybe so, but if me saying avatars is nothing but speculation, how can you say the same about this instance, based on nothing? Besides, that story was retconned into being Desaad, in disguise. So anything that happened in that story, was done by someone much weaker, than Darkseid himself.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again, I'm not saying that DS won't resort to what he considerer's a "cheap" victory to further a plot or to rid himself of what he considers a pest, I'm saying that he doesn't do that kind of thing when he's bloodlusted and he's facing off against someone that he WANTS to put down.

Anyway, I gotta take off for a while, but we can pick this up later. But the problem with your argument is, your using a statement from that Doomsday story, to support it's weight. Meaning Ds not going all out on Superman, is an act of stupidity, rather than the character being honorable. Oh wait I just remembered, Seid has also admitted to being that way, in a Bryne story. But that one would be an avatar, meaning if a small portion of Seid's power, can stand up to Superman, the imagine what the whole batch should do to him.

Originally posted by darthgoober
IW has a plot device powersource that allowed her to destoy a Celestial, so her piercing Big G's armor doesn't mean a lot. Other than IW(who I'd honestly forgotten about), the Inbetweener, and Thanos, I honestly cant think of anyone who's cause any kind of serious damage to Big G's armor.

And it was never established that Big G "vanished" or anything similar in that arc. It's true that there was an odd visual effect, but it could just as easily be interpreted that the OE had NO effect what so ever, and that visual effect was just the OE trying unsuccessfully to erase Galactus. But what's NOT open to interpretation is that that this was Galactus directly following DS's blast...
From the look of it, I'd say that Thanos had a bit more of an effect on Galactus overall.

OE isn't the same type of blast as thanos. but you're right, you could interpret it to mean nothing happened. there is an odd colouring scheme to galactus, but that could be meaningless.

i'll stick with my initial thought though and say the OE trumps anything thanos can throw. standard blasts are a dime a dozen.

and i'm not sure how you say IW is a plot-device power. i'd never agree to that. it pierced a celestial true, but that hardly equates it to a plot device. sue's shields HAVE withstood blasts from galactus in the past -- something thanos's own shielding was unable to do.

regardless, whatever effect thanos had on g's armor, its effects on g himself were non-existent. the dire wraiths ALSO beat the crap out of g on their homeworld and tore up his armor iirc, and beta ray bill has also cracked his helmet. i really don't consider breaking some of his armor as much of a feat at all.

Originally posted by starking
So even though Lobo is on par with Superman, Ds finds him to be inferior, compared to the big S? If what your saying is true, then Dc likes to stroke Superman's cock, to the nth degree. And that's called a jobber aura, something not taken seriously around here. Btw, Lobo hurt his hands punching him, so that means ALOT.

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? If so, then Raker rushed over to Ds, ONLY to have his hand crushed. So to you, is that cheap because Ds destroyed Raker's ring, making him powerless? In that case, I could call it cheap whenever the Silver Surfer, is knocked off his board, but when it's WITH IN character's powerset, to take advantage of a character's achiles heal, then you can't call CHEAP on it, unless Seid did it when his guard was down.

It shows that Seid is capable of depowering beings, greater than Superman. And the problem with your point is, you base Ds off of being an honorable fighter, from ONE comic where the portrayal of the character is OFF. Unless of course, you can show me that second instance, where Ds said he was an honorable fighter


Why does he have to be bloodlusted? Ds can pwn people STRONGER than Superman with the Oe, yet when he faces Superman himself, he has it deflected. Meaning if your theory is right(which is speculation to me), then Darkseid holds back the TRUE power of the omega effect, which to me is more retarded, than being honorable. I mean how is using the Oe, is a cheap win? It's apart of his powerset, so he should be able to use it, as much as he wants. That's like saying Silver Surfer draining Hulk of his gamma energy is cheap, because he did with such ease.

I don't get it, not to sound like an idiot or anything, but can enlighten me on this?

Maybe so, but if me saying avatars is nothing but speculation, how can you say the same about this instance, based on nothing? Besides, that story was retconned into being Desaad, in disguise. So anything that happened in that story, was done by someone much weaker, than Darkseid himself.

But the problem with your argument is, your using a statement from that Doomsday story, to support it's weight. Meaning Ds not going all out on Superman, is an act of stupidity, rather than the character being honorable. Oh wait I just remembered, Seid has also admitted to being that way, in a Bryne story. But that one would be an avatar, meaning if a small portion of Seid's power, can stand up to Superman, the imagine what the whole batch should do to him. ds the real ds showed up to comabt superman. he wouldnt send an avatar if he could lose his planet. ds lost and was humiliated. this came out of his own mouth. ds has gone so downhill. its kind of sad.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ds the real ds showed up to comabt superman. he wouldnt send an avatar if he could lose his planet. ds lost and was humiliated. this came out of his own mouth. ds has gone so downhill. its kind of sad. http://www.royalraginglions.com/images/retard.jpg

u continue to spam ill continue to make points. just becuz ds went down to doomsday doesnt mean thanos does. thanos for the win becuz ds fails at close quarters combat.

Originally posted by starking
So even though Lobo is on par with Superman, Ds finds him to be inferior, compared to the big S? If what your saying is true, then Dc likes to stroke Superman's cock, to the nth degree. And that's called a jobber aura, something not taken seriously around here. Btw, Lobo hurt his hands punching him, so that means ALOT.
Just because the majority of DC and their fans see Lobo as being on par with Supes, that doesn't mean that DS does. By DS's dialogue, he OBVIOUSLY felt that Lobo was unworthy to do combat with him. Supes has a long history with DS though, which is likely the reason behind his regarding Supes in a different light.
Originally posted by starking

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? If so, then Raker rushed over to Ds, ONLY to have his hand crushed. So to you, is that cheap because Ds destroyed Raker's ring, making him powerless? In that case, I could call it cheap whenever the Silver Surfer, is knocked off his board, but when it's WITH IN character's powerset, to take advantage of a character's achiles heal, then you can't call CHEAP on it, unless Seid did it when his guard was down.
You misunderstood, I honestly meant that DS didn't resort to any "cheap" tactics in that fight. By "cheap" I mean things like mind raping, BFR, and all the other things people say he SHOULD do when he squares off against Supes.

Originally posted by starking
It shows that Seid is capable of depowering beings, greater than Superman. And the problem with your point is, you base Ds off of being an honorable fighter, from ONE comic where the portrayal of the character is OFF. Unless of course, you can show me that second instance, where Ds said he was an honorable fighter
What proof is there that Secret is more powerful than Supes? And here are both scans if you want to take a look...

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9097/actioncomics58622fv8.th.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2036/da116jl7.th.jpg


Originally posted by starking
Why does he have to be bloodlusted? Ds can pwn people STRONGER than Superman with the Oe, yet when he faces Superman himself, he has it deflected. Meaning if your theory is right(which is speculation to me), then Darkseid holds back the TRUE power of the omega effect, which to me is more retarded, than being honorable. I mean how is using the Oe, is a cheap win? It's apart of his powerset, so he should be able to use it, as much as he wants. That's like saying Silver Surfer draining Hulk of his gamma energy is cheap, because he did with such ease.
He has to be bloodlusted, because he's bloodlusted in a forum battle. I already admitted that DS is more than willing to resort to tactics that he considers "cheap" for the sake of furthering a plot or removing someone he considers an annoyance without dirtying his hands with them, but how many instances did you find in the respect thread did you find of him doing that kind of thing when he was bloodlusted. And who has DS erased via OE that's got better showings than Supes anyway?

Originally posted by starking
I don't get it, not to sound like an idiot or anything, but can enlighten me on this?
Enlighten you on what?

Originally posted by starking
Maybe so, but if me saying avatars is nothing but speculation, how can you say the same about this instance, based on nothing? Besides, that story was retconned into being Desaad, in disguise. So anything that happened in that story, was done by someone much weaker, than Darkseid himself.
I didn't outright throw out the instance, I said that because of the way Fate was talking it seemed as though something was off. I'd have to take a look at the entire issue to make that kind of call, so if you happen to know it I'll be more than happy to take a look.

Originally posted by starking
But the problem with your argument is, your using a statement from that Doomsday story, to support it's weight. Meaning Ds not going all out on Superman, is an act of stupidity, rather than the character being honorable. Oh wait I just remembered, Seid has also admitted to being that way, in a Bryne story. But that one would be an avatar, meaning if a small portion of Seid's power, can stand up to Superman, the imagine what the whole batch should do to him.
As you just admitted(and I just posted), there's at least TWO instances of DS saying something to that effect. Whether or not it was an avatar doesn't change the fact that it was DS's mindset. As I've tried to explane to you repeatedly, I'm not saying that Byrne's Supes can/should beat DS, I'm saying that DS's mindset makes his wanting to going toe to toe with Supes "in character" for him.

Originally posted by leonidas
OE isn't the same type of blast as thanos. but you're right, you could interpret it to mean nothing happened. there is an odd colouring scheme to galactus, but that could be meaningless.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'll stick with my initial thought though and say the OE trumps anything thanos can throw. standard blasts are a dime a dozen.
Really? What evidence is there to suggest that the "erasing effect" is all that powerful? I've been trying to get an example of DS successfully using against a top tier for a while now, and I haven't been shown a single example of it yet. That's not to say that his OE isn't incredibly useful and handy to have against those of a lower tier, but I haven't seen him erase anyone of note personally.

Originally posted by leonidas
and i'm not sure how you say IW is a plot-device power. i'd never agree to that. it pierced a celestial true, but that hardly equates it to a plot device. sue's shields HAVE withstood blasts from galactus in the past -- something thanos's own shielding was unable to do.
The plot device I was referring to was her all of the sudden drawing her power from hyperspace, and being able to take down guys like Celestials and Galactus. So I guess her power itself may not be a plot device, but her power SOURCE(which is what allows her to do that kind of thing) certainly is. And Galactus himself said that he'd NEVER had to exert himself the way he did to blast though Thanos's shields, so if Sue's withstood him he was either a whole lot weaker(understandable since he was pretty well fed against Thanos), or he just wasn't trying as hard against her.

Originally posted by leonidas
regardless, whatever effect thanos had on g's armor, its effects on g himself were non-existent. the dire wraiths ALSO beat the crap out of g on their homeworld and tore up his armor iirc, and beta ray bill has also cracked his helmet. i really don't consider breaking some of his armor as much of a feat at all.
I was honestly unaware of those instances you mentioned(sounds like something I'll have to check out), but destroying the armor is still something that DS was unable to do.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just because the majority of DC and their fans see Lobo as being on par with Supes, that doesn't mean that DS does. By DS's dialogue, he OBVIOUSLY felt that Lobo was unworthy to do combat with him. Supes has a long history with DS though, which is likely the reason behind his regarding Supes in a different light.

You misunderstood, I honestly meant that DS didn't resort to any "cheap" tactics in that fight. By "cheap" I mean things like mind raping, BFR, and all the other things people say he SHOULD do when he squares off against Supes.


What proof is there that Secret is more powerful than Supes? And here are both scans if you want to take a look...

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9097/actioncomics58622fv8.th.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2036/da116jl7.th.jpg



He has to be bloodlusted, because he's bloodlusted in a forum battle. I already admitted that DS is more than willing to resort to tactics that he considers "cheap" for the sake of furthering a plot or removing someone he considers an annoyance without dirtying his hands with them, but how many instances did you find in the respect thread did you find of him doing that kind of thing when he was bloodlusted. And who has DS erased via OE that's got better showings than Supes anyway?


Enlighten you on what?


I didn't outright throw out the instance, I said that because of the way Fate was talking it seemed as though something was off. I'd have to take a look at the entire issue to make that kind of call, so if you happen to know it I'll be more than happy to take a look.


As you just admitted(and I just posted), there's at least TWO instances of DS saying something to that effect. Whether or not it was an avatar doesn't change the fact that it was DS's mindset. As I've tried to explane to you repeatedly, I'm not saying that Byrne's Supes can/should beat DS, I'm saying that DS's mindset makes his wanting to going toe to toe with Supes "in character" for him. nice scans. according to some people on here ds never lies. so if ds lost to superman fair and square then it isnt pis. ds admitted it. ds admitted supes can beat him. he also admitted he was humiliated by supes in apokolips now.

"this creature u call doomsday is unbeatable." this is what darkseid says in hunter and prey book three page 5. he admits doomsday cant lose. and doesnt even help superman becuz darkseid doesnt believe he can beat him. supes gets the job done while ds stays home in his bed under his covers. hoping doomsday doesnt come back.

quanchi you claim you make points but i have yet to see any so from now on ill take your posts with a grain of salt.

Also regarding this breaking of the armor "feat," walking by your desk with loose clothing on and it getting caught on the corner is enough to rip your shirt. Wind is enough to blow your hat off. Breaking armor means absolutely nothing except big G is gonna have to call his tailor.

Originally posted by Kurash
Also regarding this breaking of the armor "feat," walking by your desk with loose clothing on and it getting caught on the corner is enough to rip your shirt. Wind is enough to blow your hat off. Breaking armor means absolutely nothing except big G is gonna have to call his tailor.
We're not talking about clothing, we're talking about armor. How many times have you seen an armored hero/villain tear his armor on a dest, or have his helmet blown off by the wind?

Originally posted by darthgoober
We're not talking about clothing, we're talking about armor. How many times have you seen an armored hero/villain tear his armor on a dest, or have his helmet blown off by the wind?

Do you honestly think a character as powerful as Big G really needs armor? You think it has any effect on his durability or is just there for show? Because apparently a blast that broke his armor had no effect on his flesh

Originally posted by Kurash
Do you honestly think a character as powerful as Big G really needs armor? You think it has any effect on his durability or is just there for show? Because apparently a blast that broke his armor had no effect on his flesh
Or maybe it had no effect BECAUSE of the armor(that's generally armor's purpose after all).

the armor was gone. Thats like a bulletproof vest with front to back holes from where bullets went through and saying "it did its job"

The point is, obviously the blast hit him because the energy didnt magically break the armor and stop before it hit the flesh

Originally posted by Kurash
the armor was gone. Thats like a bulletproof vest with front to back holes from where bullets went through and saying "it did its job"

The point is, obviously the blast hit him because the energy didnt magically break the armor and stop before it hit the flesh
I think a better parallel, would be a fairly weak serf hitting a strong/powerful knight square across the head with a mace, knocking his helmet off and leaving the knight dazed. The knight may be more powerful than the serf physically and be pretty much unharmed, but the fact of the matter is that the knight would be in FAR worse condition if he never had the helmet in the first place.

Originally posted by Kurash
quanchi you claim you make points but i have yet to see any so from now on ill take your posts with a grain of salt.

Also regarding this breaking of the armor "feat," walking by your desk with loose clothing on and it getting caught on the corner is enough to rip your shirt. Wind is enough to blow your hat off. Breaking armor means absolutely nothing except big G is gonna have to call his tailor. the point is this. thanos has proven he can handle thor with the freaking power gem. this doomsday lost to supes,waverider, and a mother box. not all that impresive. thanos fights odin courageously. he took on tyrant for shits and giggles. he slapped around thor and thing before his resurrection power up. he waved thors hammer down like nothing. thanos could beat doomsday and while he was fighting him hed think on his feet for the victory. thanos for the win.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I think a better parallel, would be a fairly weak serf hitting a strong/powerful knight square across the head with a mace, knocking his helmet off and leaving the knight dazed. The knight may be more powerful than the serf physically and be pretty much unharmed, but the fact of the matter is that the knight would be in FAR worse condition if he never had the helmet in the first place.

Actually no its not, since if the mace had hitten the knight with his helmet off in the first place he would have more than likely died, whereas with galactus it would have made no difference if he would have been completely naked

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just because the majority of DC and their fans see Lobo as being on par with Supes, that doesn't mean that DS does. By DS's dialogue, he OBVIOUSLY felt that Lobo was unworthy to do combat with him. Supes has a long history with DS though, which is likely the reason behind his regarding Supes in a different light.Yet Lobo has been many times (OUTSIDE of the comic, alongside Ds), to be even with Superman. So why is it that Lobo, someone who rivals Superman physically, can hurt his hands and BE erased by the Oe? Like I said earlier, Dc tends to stroke Superman's cock to a point were you don't no what to take seriously.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You misunderstood, I honestly meant that DS didn't resort to any "cheap" tactics in that fight. By "cheap" I mean things like mind raping, BFR, and all the other things people say he SHOULD do when he squares off against Supes. How is mindraping, bfring, and such is a cheap ability? If you are blessed with a great power, then why throw it out the window? Besides, I'm not sure what you were trying to prove, if Ds can curbstomp someone with his physical power, then he should have every right in the world to do so. So it really doesn't prove, that Darkseid is as honorable as you say.


Originally posted by darthgoober
What proof is there that Secret is more powerful than Supes? And Well for one, she can pwn the entire Young justice, and Despero. If Superman can touch her in that department, then Dc has to get his ass under control.
Originally posted by darthgoober
here are both scans if you want to take a look...
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9097/actioncomics58622fv8.th.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2036/da116jl7.th.jpg That's great and all, but heres the problem. HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING, about holding back his power in the first scan. Meaning Seid was either being an idiot, or something else happened. Ds using matter transmutation, or the ability to depower Superman entirely, is not what I would call a cheap win. So why does Seid hold back so much, when in reality, Superman shouldn't even be noticed by him? If that fight was a pure h2h confrontation, then you would be getting at something. But it was obvious that Bryne, decided to give Ds the shit end of the stick in that story. So yeah, you can't base Darkseid's physical power, off a portrayal that had him as a weaker Superman level being.



Originally posted by darthgoober
He has to be bloodlusted, because he's bloodlusted in a forum battle. I already admitted that DS is more than willing to resort to tactics that he considers "cheap" for the sake of furthering a plot or removing someone he considers an annoyance without dirtying his hands with them, but how many instances did you find in the respect thread did you find of him doing that kind of thing when he was bloodlusted. And who has DS erased via OE that's got better showings than Supes anyway?Uhh, saying Ds doesn't use his powerset to the full degree, CAN'T be said for his showings, in Superman and Batman, Apokolips now, and Action comics. In those storys, he used the Omega effect on Superman, and failed miserably. Meaning your theory for Ds not using his "cheap" abilities, is thrown out the window. And the Oe has depowereg Secret, Erased Agogg, removed Martian Manhunter, and of course erased Lobo. Don't you find it funny, how a guy with a HUGE jobber aura, some how deflects the Omega effect.


Originally posted by darthgoober
Enlighten you on what?This one.

"What "cheap" win did he go for there? He grabbed the guy by the neck and then blasted him. He didn't mind rape him or even OE the guy, all he did was blast him. If anything, that proves that DS's standard tactics when going 1 on 1 with Supes are more "in character" that what you believe."

But I don't see how that proves anything, why use bfr when simply pwn someone, with a single blast? Doesn't sound nessacary to me.



Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't outright throw out the instance, I said that because of the way Fate was talking it seemed as though something was off. I'd have to take a look at the entire issue to make that kind of call, so if you happen to know it I'll be more than happy to take a look.Well him and Mrs.Fate, had to use a spell to trick him, into loving. It sounds pretty weird, but that's what happened. Not only that, but that was Desaad disguised as Ds, and he scared the shit out of the Lords of chaos. It came out some Dr.Fate story, just to let you know.


Originally posted by darthgoober
As you just admitted(and I just posted), there's at least TWO instances of DS saying something to that effect. Whether or not it was an avatar doesn't change the fact that it was DS's mindset. As I've tried to explane to you repeatedly, I'm not saying that Byrne's Supes can/should beat DS, I'm saying that DS's mindset makes his wanting to going toe to toe with Supes "in character" for him. Meh, I pretty much covered what I would've said, further up.

Originally posted by starking
Yet Lobo has been many times (OUTSIDE of the comic, alongside Ds), to be even with Superman. So why is it that Lobo, someone who rivals Superman physically, can hurt his hands and BE erased by the Oe? Like I said earlier, Dc tends to stroke Superman's cock to a point were you don't no what to take seriously.
They may be about even strength wise, but I've yet to see anything from Lobo to suggest equal durability. Lobo gets hurt A LOT more than Supes, it's just that he heals from it.

Originally posted by starking
How is mindraping, bfring, and such is a cheap ability? If you are blessed with a great power, then why throw it out the window? Besides, I'm not sure what you were trying to prove, if Ds can curbstomp someone with his physical power, then he should have every right in the world to do so. So it really doesn't prove, that Darkseid is as honorable as you say.
He DOES have every right to, but when he does it doesn't really support your arguement that it's "in character" for him to resort to what I've already shown him to consider a "cheap" win now does it?


Originally posted by starking
Well for one, she can pwn the entire Young justice, and Despero. If Superman can touch her in that department, then Dc has to get his ass under control.

Supes DID recently pwn Despero, and I don't really see him having much trouble with Superboy, Robin, Impulse, Arrowette, and Wondergirl at the same time either.

Originally posted by starking
That's great and all, but heres the problem. HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING, about holding back his power in the first scan. Meaning Seid was either being an idiot, or something else happened. Ds using matter transmutation, or the ability to depower Superman entirely, is not what I would call a cheap win. So why does Seid hold back so much, when in reality, Superman shouldn't even be noticed by him? If that fight was a pure h2h confrontation, then you would be getting at something. But it was obvious that Bryne, decided to give Ds the shit end of the stick in that story. So yeah, you can't base Darkseid's physical power, off a portrayal that had him as a weaker Superman level being.
Wtf are you talking about? I already told you(several times in fact) that the Byrne incident is being used for personality analysis, not power indication. That means that I'm NOT USING IT TO BASE DARKSEID'S LEVEL OF POWER ON. I'm using it as an example of DS exhibiting a sense of "honor".



Originally posted by starking
Uhh, saying Ds doesn't use his powerset to the full degree, CAN'T be said for his showings, in Superman and Batman, Apokolips now, and Action comics. In those storys, he used the Omega effect on Superman, and failed miserably. Meaning your theory for Ds not using his "cheap" abilities, is thrown out the window. And the Oe has depowereg Secret, Erased Agogg, removed Martian Manhunter, and of course erased Lobo. Don't you find it funny, how a guy with a HUGE jobber aura, some how deflects the Omega effect.
Except that he had already attempted to USE the OE on Supes before at that point unsuccessfully, so he knew that it wasn't outside of Supes ability to deal with it(which means that it wouldn't be a "cheap" tactic". After all Supes uses energy attacks(heatvision) in his fights with DS, so I can see why DS wouldn't consider it to be "cheating" for him to do the same against Supes. Think about it, Doomsday was only using h2h attacks when he was first tearing through DS's army, so DS said that honor demanded h2h combat. Supes has ranged attacks, flight, and super speed so it makes sense for DS to cut loose at little bit more(since it's not dishonorable for him to do so).


Originally posted by starking
This one.

"What "cheap" win did he go for there? He grabbed the guy by the neck and then blasted him. He didn't mind rape him or even OE the guy, all he did was blast him. If anything, that proves that DS's standard tactics when going 1 on 1 with Supes are more "in character" that what you believe."

But I don't see how that proves anything, why use bfr when simply pwn someone, with a single blast? Doesn't sound nessacary to me.
It's not necessary for DS, it's just necessary for him to do it so that it will prove YOUR point(the point being that it's "in character" for him to do so under those circumstances).



Originally posted by starking
Well him and Mrs.Fate, had to use a spell to trick him, into loving. It sounds pretty weird, but that's what happened. Not only that, but that was Desaad disguised as Ds, and he scared the shit out of the Lords of chaos. It came out some Dr.Fate story, just to let you know.
So it wasn't actually DS? In that case, that particular instance seems to be irrelevant to a discussion about DS's sense of honor since IT'S ANOTHER CHARACTER.

Originally posted by Kurash
Actually no its not, since if the mace had hitten the knight with his helmet off in the first place he would have more than likely died, whereas with galactus it would have made no difference if he would have been completely naked
Really? You're SURE that the knight would die no matter what? What if the knight had a large opening for his head could slip out of(like Galactus's)? Is there NO WAY the knight might survive in that case?

And I really don't see what your problem is with acknowledging it as an impressive feat anyway to tell you the truth. To my knowledge there have only been 5 instances of Big G's armor being torn up to that extent. There's The Inbetweener(abstract level character), Invisible Woman(plot device power source that also allows her to kill a Celestial) the Dire Wraith and Beta Ray Bill(which I just found out about, so I still don't know the details surrounding it) and Thanos, and that's it. If it were a worthless feat then it would have happened more often.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Really? You're SURE that the knight would die no matter what? What if the knight had a large opening for his head could slip out of(like Galactus's)? Is there NO WAY the knight might survive in that case?

And I really don't see what your problem is with acknowledging it as an impressive feat anyway to tell you the truth. To my knowledge there have only been 5 instances of Big G's armor being torn up to that extent. There's The Inbetweener(abstract level character), Invisible Woman(plot device power source that also allows her to kill a Celestial) the Dire Wraith and Beta Ray Bill(which I just found out about, so I still don't know the details surrounding it) and Thanos, and that's it. If it were a worthless feat then it would have happened more often.

I think you misunderstood. If the knight had no helmet on at all he would die when being struck by the mace.

Can anyone find another example of Galactus being blasted and sent a thousand+ feet away? And it phased him enough to immediately want Thanos dead, his helmet wasn't just taken off but also broke in places, and his body armour was cracked in places, thats a good feat however you want to look at it. And it wasn't a sneak attack as Galactus knew he was there and they'd exchanged dialogue.

Originally posted by starking
Yet Lobo has been many times (OUTSIDE of the comic, alongside Ds), to be even with Superman. So why is it that Lobo, someone who rivals Superman physically, can hurt his hands and BE erased by the Oe? Like I said earlier, Dc tends to stroke Superman's cock to a point were you don't no what to take seriously.

How is mindraping, bfring, and such is a cheap ability? If you are blessed with a great power, then why throw it out the window? Besides, I'm not sure what you were trying to prove, if Ds can curbstomp someone with his physical power, then he should have every right in the world to do so. So it really doesn't prove, that Darkseid is as honorable as you say.


Well for one, she can pwn the entire Young justice, and Despero. If Superman can touch her in that department, then Dc has to get his ass under control.
That's great and all, but heres the problem. HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING, about holding back his power in the first scan. Meaning Seid was either being an idiot, or something else happened. Ds using matter transmutation, or the ability to depower Superman entirely, is not what I would call a cheap win. So why does Seid hold back so much, when in reality, Superman shouldn't even be noticed by him? If that fight was a pure h2h confrontation, then you would be getting at something. But it was obvious that Bryne, decided to give Ds the shit end of the stick in that story. So yeah, you can't base Darkseid's physical power, off a portrayal that had him as a weaker Superman level being.



Uhh, saying Ds doesn't use his powerset to the full degree, CAN'T be said for his showings, in Superman and Batman, Apokolips now, and Action comics. In those storys, he used the Omega effect on Superman, and failed miserably. Meaning your theory for Ds not using his "cheap" abilities, is thrown out the window. And the Oe has depowereg Secret, Erased Agogg, removed Martian Manhunter, and of course erased Lobo. Don't you find it funny, how a guy with a HUGE jobber aura, some how deflects the Omega effect.


This one.

"What "cheap" win did he go for there? He grabbed the guy by the neck and then blasted him. He didn't mind rape him or even OE the guy, all he did was blast him. If anything, that proves that DS's standard tactics when going 1 on 1 with Supes are more "in character" that what you believe."

But I don't see how that proves anything, why use bfr when simply pwn someone, with a single blast? Doesn't sound nessacary to me.



Well him and Mrs.Fate, had to use a spell to trick him, into loving. It sounds pretty weird, but that's what happened. Not only that, but that was Desaad disguised as Ds, and he scared the shit out of the Lords of chaos. It came out some Dr.Fate story, just to let you know.


Meh, I pretty much covered what I would've said, further up. we do know what to take seriously with superman. we cannot discount what he has done becuz u believe darkseid is superior. not all writers ahre your beliefs and they are the ones who write the stories. superman can and has beaten ds. he isnt flat out superiro but can and has beat him down before.

you always act like bryne or whoever the writer is that portrays superman as being able to hang with ds as having some hidden agenda. face it superman by a few different writers can beat up ds, i believe shcutz had him curbtsomp ds in apokolips now. that is the story you should fear. that is the biggest embarrasssment of ds life. he even admits in the comic on panel how embarrasing the loss is for him.

i have read the fates tory and it was kinda silly. if desaad can scare the lords of chaos then i have absoultey no respect for the lords he scared.

lastly, there is no jobber aura. you either win or lose. ds has been losing as of late,

Originally posted by darthgoober


i still believe that the beams DID affect g -- maybe they . . . partially erased him, hence the watered-down colouring which was clearly intentional? anyway, interpret as you will. it's always been funny to me that thanos was able to apparently 'damage' g like he did, but odin casually withstood many more blasts and never once looked like he was hurt at all.



about the best erasing feat i know of is agogg, who pretty handily whooped down orion and lightray at the same time. that's a very powerful combo. but it's also ko'd pre-c monel as well as a number of top tier guys including both superman and orion. the fact that supes has resisted the OE has sorta been blown out of proportion. the OE has affected superman very badly on MANY occasions and orion too. there's a scene in new gods where he is using it to wipe out various unrevealed 'gods' but their levels are never mentioned nor are their faces shown. could thanos's blasts do the same? likely. in terms of sheer 'power output' they are both likely the same. the OE is simply much more versatile, which is why i'd take it over the standard blasts that thanos offers.



maybe. then again hulk was the toughest guy superman ever fought too. regardless, it's still speculatory regarding the nature of sue's power though. nate guessed that she may draw power from hyperspace. and even if it is derived from hyperspce, the feat is no less impressive and penetrating his armor AND body>scuffing his armor.



but partially erasing g (which is how i interpret the colouring scheme in that scene) was something thanos couldn't do. and impressing galactus was also something thanos coudln't do.

Originally posted by Wally West
Can anyone find another example of Galactus being blasted and sent a thousand+ feet away? And it phased him enough to immediately want Thanos dead, his helmet wasn't just taken off but also broke in places, and his body armour was cracked in places, thats a good feat however you want to look at it. And it wasn't a sneak attack as Galactus knew he was there and they'd exchanged dialogue.

Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter knocked the quantum mechanic off of his balance. quantum mechanics are superior to imps. So should thier feat say that they are more powerful than Thanos since they knocked an angry zealot over? I dont' remember him being harmed so I don't count the feat. Same thing with Thanos. Big G wasn't harmed so the feat doesn't count.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter knocked the quantum mechanic off of his balance. quantum mechanics are superior to imps. So should thier feat say that they are more powerful than Thanos since they knocked an angry zealot over? I dont' remember him being harmed so I don't count the feat. Same thing with Thanos. Big G wasn't harmed so the feat doesn't count. the feat doesnt count. but u count all of ds feats in the far off future that prolly wont come to pass.

Originally posted by quanchi112
the feat doesnt count. but u count all of ds feats in the far off future that prolly wont come to pass.

you idiot. They all came to pass. All in continuity.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
you idiot. They all came to pass. All in continuity. dont u hear of reboots. dc discounts shit all the time. gds proves how ineffective ds is then in the future if u want it so badly. he really accomplishes nothing of note and is pretty much forgotten about. he comes back steals powers amnd gets a new army. army of 3 billion. loses it and runs away. thats ds for u. wow that was so impressive.

Originally posted by quanchi112
dont u hear of reboots. dc discounts shit all the time. gds proves how ineffective ds is then in the future if u want it so badly. he really accomplishes nothing of note and is pretty much forgotten about. he comes back steals powers amnd gets a new army. army of 3 billion. loses it and runs away. thats ds for u. wow that was so impressive.

He doesn't steal power. He Takes it with one of his very famous abilities. He still isn't as powerful as his younger self. The younger self proves to be more powerful than Old Ds, the power of the abstract mordru, and the abstract Time trapper combined. Talk about power. You can't deny this. No one can.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He doesn't steal power. He Takes it with one of his very famous abilities. He still isn't as powerful as his younger self. The younger self proves to be more powerful than Old Ds, the power of the abstract mordru, and the abstract Time trapper combined. Talk about power. You can't deny this. No one can. so absorbing someons power isnt stealing it. oh then what is it? ds has been a thiref of other peoples powers from day one. he has always been a thief. its just with all the stealing he does he cant ever pull anything amazing out of it. he retreated in gds soon as he lost his advantage. talk about a coward.

Originally posted by quanchi112
so absorbing someons power isnt stealing it. oh then what is it? ds has been a thiref of other peoples powers from day one. he has always been a thief. its just with all the stealing he does he cant ever pull anything amazing out of it. he retreated in gds soon as he lost his advantage. talk about a coward.

They are all laughing at you.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They are all laughing at you. [/Bpeople hated you on other forums. and that u lurked around here. he has you on his profile with ur quote as he is laughing at u. so quit with the popular stuff and i dont care. its pathetic that u keep bringing it up. stick to the topic. im tired of hearing about the movie carrie here. go to the horror forum and talk about it there.

Originally posted by darthgoober
They may be about even strength wise, but I've yet to see anything from Lobo to suggest equal durability. Lobo gets hurt A LOT more than Supes, it's just that he heals from it.Lobo has beaten Superman before, and supposedly lifted something that had the weight of a universe. I'm not sure if it's true, but who knows.


Originally posted by darthgoober
He DOES have every right to, but when he does it doesn't really support your arguement that it's "in character" for him to resort to what I've already shown him to consider a "cheap" win now does it? He only stated that he doesn't use his "cheap win" tactics, in Doomsday annual. In that Bryne's story you posted, it was OBVIOUS that he was alot weaker than his average portrayal. Meaning there's no proof Ds WAS holding back, and that it was more likely that he was simply jobbing. Not only that, but Seid said his avatars can be beaten if the opponent is strong enough.




Originally posted by darthgoober
Supes DID recently pwn Despero, and I don't really see him having much trouble with Superboy, Robin, Impulse, Arrowette, and Wondergirl at the same time either.Correction, Superman with Dc stroking his cock, pwned Despero. Now that proves how much of a jobber aura he has, rather than how powerful he is. Supes has had his ass beaten before by Despero, and I believe it was more than once. So why is it that somehow, the more recent portrayal of Superman, with the ridiculous showings, can pwn Despero? And one more thing, Superboy was among the few, who were defeated by Secret.
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=secret9zm.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=secret18cb.jpg


Originally posted by darthgoober
Wtf are you talking about? I already told you(several times in fact) that the Byrne incident is being used for personality analysis, not power indication. That means that I'm NOT USING IT TO BASE DARKSEID'S LEVEL OF POWER ON. I'm using it as an example of DS exhibiting a sense of "honor". Yeah I know were basing his character off it, rather than his power. But the point I was trying to make is, Ds WAS NOT holding back, for the avatar can be beaten be by lesser beings. Meaning you can't say it's in character for him not use is full powerset, when he really is(an avatar, not Ds).




Originally posted by darthgoober
Except that he had already attempted to USE the OE on Supes before at that point unsuccessfully, so he knew that it wasn't outside of Supes ability to deal with it(which means that it wouldn't be a "cheap" tactic". After all Supes uses energy attacks(heatvision) in his fights with DS, so I can see why DS wouldn't consider it to be "cheating" for him to do the same against Supes. Think about it, Doomsday was only using h2h attacks when he was first tearing through DS's army, so DS said that honor demanded h2h combat. Supes has ranged attacks, flight, and super speed so it makes sense for DS to cut loose at little bit more(since it's not dishonorable for him to do so). And he's still used the Oe on beings, who are close to Superman in power. Orion, Agogg, Martian Manhunter, and Lobo can be effected, but Superman a character much more popular can? If so, then Supes can make short work, of everbody I just listed? Here's the truth, it's not durability that makes Superman immune to the Omegas, it's his jobber aura.



Originally posted by darthgoober
It's not necessary for DS, it's just necessary for him to do it so that it will prove YOUR point(the point being that it's "in character" for him to do so under those circumstances).No that wasn't my point, MY point was that Ds didn't need much effort to defeat Blasfemy in the first place, so why do anything else other than simply blast him?




Originally posted by darthgoober
So it wasn't actually DS? In that case, that particular instance seems to be irrelevant to a discussion about DS's sense of honor since IT'S ANOTHER CHARACTER. Lmao, Desaad is nothing to Ds and when I say nothing I mean NOTHING. Yeah I know its abc logic, but in this case it works.
edit:Oh and I already covered Ds's honor.

Originally posted by leonidas
i still believe that the beams DID affect g -- maybe they . . . partially erased him, hence the watered-down colouring which was clearly intentional? anyway, interpret as you will. it's always been funny to me that thanos was able to apparently 'damage' g like he did, but odin casually withstood many more blasts and never once looked like he was hurt at all.
You have to remember, Thanos's powers were upgraded TWICE between his fight against Odin and his blasting Galactus.



Originally posted by leonidas
about the best erasing feat i know of is agogg, who pretty handily whooped down orion and lightray at the same time. that's a very powerful combo. but it's also ko'd pre-c monel as well as a number of top tier guys including both superman and orion. the fact that supes has resisted the OE has sorta been blown out of proportion. the OE has affected superman very badly on MANY occasions and orion too. there's a scene in new gods where he is using it to wipe out various unrevealed 'gods' but their levels are never mentioned nor are their faces shown. could thanos's blasts do the same? likely. in terms of sheer 'power output' they are both likely the same. the OE is simply much more versatile, which is why i'd take it over the standard blasts that thanos offers.
I'm not that familiar with Agogg so I can't really coment on that one(but I plan on looking into it now), but I'm not talking about it KOing somebody or it's versatility, I'm talking about the erasing effect itself. And unless I'm mistaken, those 'gods' you're talking about him wiping out were wiped out in the Great Darkness Saga, which is invalid by forum rules due to it being a future version of DS(I know because I checked with Digi).


Originally posted by leonidas
maybe. then again hulk was the toughest guy superman ever fought too. regardless, it's still speculatory regarding the nature of sue's power though. nate guessed that she may draw power from hyperspace. and even if it is derived from hyperspce, the feat is no less impressive and penetrating his armor AND body>scuffing his armor.
But the fact that she draws her power from Hyperspace(the only logical explanation) means that her inflicting more damage is due more to the NATURE of her powers than the extent of her powers. The Human Torch could cause more damage to classic Despero or Martian Manhunter with a single fireblast than Hulk could with a single punch, but it's because those characters are more vulnerable to that type of attack rather than Torch being more powerful.



Originally posted by leonidas
but partially erasing g (which is how i interpret the colouring scheme in that scene) was something thanos couldn't do. and impressing galactus was also something thanos coudln't do.
Actually, Galactus WAS impressed by Thanos's tech. And since much of Thanos's tech is standard equipment to him. As for whether or not Big G was partially erased, we'll just have to agree to disagree because I'm not buying it since it was never even touched upon in the book(which makes it PURE speculation).

Originally posted by starking
Lobo has beaten Superman before, and supposedly lifted something that had the weight of a universe. I'm not sure if it's true, but who knows.
I already acknowledged that they were in the same strength class, but that still doesn't put them in the same durability class.


Originally posted by starking
He only stated that he doesn't use his "cheap win" tactics, in Doomsday annual. In that Bryne's story you posted, it was OBVIOUS that he was alot weaker than his average portrayal. Meaning there's no proof Ds WAS holding back, and that it was more likely that he was simply jobbing. Not only that, but Seid said his avatars can be beaten if the opponent is strong enough.

Except that after Supes had DS beaten, DS DID teleport Supes away(that's the safe trip home he was talking about). That means that he could have done that at anytime but didn't. So it still supports it being "in character" for him to try to throw down with Supes.


Originally posted by starking
Correction, Superman with Dc stroking his cock, pwned Despero. Now that proves how much of a jobber aura he has, rather than how powerful he is. Supes has had his ass beaten before by Despero, and I believe it was more than once. So why is it that somehow, the more recent portrayal of Superman, with the ridiculous showings, can pwn Despero? And one more thing, Superboy was among the few, who were defeated by Secret.
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=secret9zm.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=secret18cb.jpg

And Secret being Despero was due to the nature of her powers rather than her actually being more powerful than Despero. I don't remember the exact details, but for some reason when he looked at her he saw the abyss or voiod or something like that and it pretty much reduced him to a quivering heap. That's hardly overpowering him, and is no indication that she's more powerful than Supes. And since I seriously doubt that Supes would have any trouble soloing Young Justice, that's not really any indication that she's more powerful than he is either.

Originally posted by starking
Yeah I know were basing his character off it, rather than his power. But the point I was trying to make is, Ds WAS NOT holding back, for the avatar can be beaten be by lesser beings. Meaning you can't say it's in character for him not use is full powerset, when he really is(an avatar, not Ds).
Except that I just pointed out that he DID have "cheap" tactics at his disposal in that fight.




Originally posted by starking
And he's still used the Oe on beings, who are close to Superman in power. Orion, Agogg, Martian Manhunter, and Lobo can be effected, but Superman a character much more popular can? If so, then Supes can make short work, of everbody I just listed? Here's the truth, it's not durability that makes Superman immune to the Omegas, it's his jobber aura.
Being close(or exceeding someone) in overall power isn't the same as being as durable. Storm's power far exceeds Wolverine's, but he's still A LOT more durable.



Originally posted by starking
No that wasn't my point, MY point was that Ds didn't need much effort to defeat Blasfemy in the first place, so why do anything else other than simply blast him?
You're right he didn't need to. But my point was that he doesn't like to use "cheap" tactics when he's bloodlusted. You forget that you weren't supposed to be hunting examples of his beating people, you were supposed to be hunting examples of his using his more exotic abilities to score a "cheap" win when he's bloodlusted.




Originally posted by starking
Oh and I already covered Ds's honor.
So have I, but you still haven't actually countered any of my points on the matter.

Double post.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You have to remember, Thanos's powers were upgraded TWICE between his fight against Odin and his blasting Galactus.
No... He got upgraded when he used THOTU and gave himself a powerboost... Where's this second upgrade your talking about?

Originally posted by King Kandy
No... He got upgraded when he used THOTU and gave himself a powerboost... Where's this second upgrade your talking about?
The Tyrant fight. Thanos wanted that orb to increase his power, and since he walked away with it in the end, it means that his power was increased to the levels it was when he took on Tyrant.

It is unknown what Thanos did with the orb.

Originally posted by King Kandy
It is unknown what Thanos did with the orb.
But it IS known that he wanted the orb to make himself more powerful, and at the end you see him hooking the orb up to what appears to be something that looks like a device to drain off the orbs power, so I think it's a pretty fair assumption that he used it to upgrade himself. After all, what else would he use it for since that's why he wanted the damn thing in the first place?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I already acknowledged that they were in the same strength class, but that still doesn't put them in the same durability class.How can they not be in the same duribility class, when Lobo has manhandled him? You have to have duribility, to accompany your strength in such a way, I'm right am I not?




Originally posted by darthgoober
Except that after Supes had DS beaten, DS DID teleport Supes away(that's the safe trip home he was talking about). That means that he could have done that at anytime but didn't. So it still supports it being "in character" for him to try to throw down with Supes.And he did that by opening a boomtube, rather than teleporting him with Oe. You do know that Superman deflected the omega effect, in that same story, and that there's no indication to how the avatar was holding back, right? I'm sure Superman was supposed to be outright superior to that avatar, instead of him being stronger than him.



Originally posted by darthgoober
And Secret being Despero was due to the nature of her powers rather than her actually being more powerful than Despero. I don't remember the exact details, but for some reason when he looked at her he saw the abyss or voiod or something like that and it pretty much reduced him to a quivering heap. That's hardly overpowering him, and is no indication that she's more powerful than Supes. And since I seriously doubt that Supes would have any trouble soloing Young Justice, that's not really any indication that she's more powerful than he is either.Yes that's true for Despero, however Secret was giving the combined power of Slobo, Red Tornadoe, Superboy, and Wondergirl hell, and I'm pretty sure that group is able to defeat Superman. Btw, Secret was going to end the world with her power, more evidence that proves she's above Superman.


Originally posted by darthgoober
Except that I just pointed out that he DID have "cheap" tactics at his disposal in that fight.Not really, seeing how Supes turned the Oe on him. And being able to get rid of somebody with a boomtube, isn't what I would call a "cheap tactic", seeing how doing so is NOT a win in Ds's favor, but him avoiding a fight. The spot could trick Spider-man into one of his hole thingies, but that doesn't mean he can beat him outright.





Originally posted by darthgoober
Being close(or exceeding someone) in overall power isn't the same as being as durable. Storm's power far exceeds Wolverine's, but he's still A LOT more durable.But Orion, Agogg, Martian Manhunter, are VERY close, or even above Superman in durability. Agogg can take attacks from Lightray and Orion, then pwn both of them. Yet when he faces Ds himself, he's erased from existance. Mm should be on par with Supes in terms of duribility(not equal to, just close). Lobo should be, and I would say Secret is aswell, seeing how she can take attacks from Superboy, and others with little effect. He's also destroyed the Cyborg and a set of missles with the Oe, when Superman couldn't do shit to them. Hell, Superman has been teleported by the Oe, yet the wipeout function can't do shit for some reason. So that means Ds is holding back alot of power, or Dc is wanking him to a point were anything is possible. Besides. being able to resist the Oe, through nothing more than durability, is just pure idiotic.




Originally posted by darthgoober
You're right he didn't need to. But my point was that he doesn't like to use "cheap" tactics when he's bloodlusted. You forget that you weren't supposed to be hunting examples of his beating people, you were supposed to be hunting examples of his using his more exotic abilities to score a "cheap" win when he's bloodlusted.





So have I, but you still haven't actually countered any of my points on the matter. Ok then, but I don't see how holding back SO MUCH power, as a cheap win to Ds. He's not that honorable, where he'll risk everything just to have a fair fight against Superman. That's not Ds being respectful, but Dc finding a way for Superman to be their top dog. See some of the ridiculous shit he's done lately, like pull Ds off the Source wall, when it takes an assload of power, to remove Yuga khan from it. Like I said, Dc likes to wank Superman.

Originally posted by starking
How can they not be in the same duribility class, when Lobo has manhandled him? You have to have duribility, to accompany your strength in such a way, I'm right am I not?
Durability and strength don't always go hand in hand. Often... yes, always...by no stretch of the imagination(just look at Sunspot). You have to remember, Supes durability isn't just based off of his physicality, he's also got his bio field. Lobo doesn't have a bio field that acts as a forcefield to my knowledge. And as I pointed out before, Lobo sustains what Supes would consider serious injurys from less damage than Supes has been shown to withstand many times, it's just that Lobo heals back from it.




Originally posted by starking
And he did that by opening a boomtube, rather than teleporting him with Oe. You do know that Superman deflected the omega effect, in that same story, and that there's no indication to how the avatar was holding back, right? I'm sure Superman was supposed to be outright superior to that avatar, instead of him being stronger than him.
He didn't deflect the OE, it chased him around and he led it back to DS. But seeing as how DS STILL could've opened that boomtube at any time to BFR Supes into a red sun or something like that, but he didn't. So it still supports his going toe to toe with Supes as being "in character".



Originally posted by starking
Yes that's true for Despero, however Secret was giving the combined power of Slobo, Red Tornadoe, Superboy, and Wondergirl hell, and I'm pretty sure that group is able to defeat Superman. Btw, Secret was going to end the world with her power, more evidence that proves she's above Superman.
Tell you what, if you'd like I can start a Young Justice(minus Secret of course) vs Supes thread and we can see what everyone else thinks about that, because I see Supes blitzing the lot of them. And whether or not she was SUPPOSED to destroy the world is irrelevant, because she was dealt with before she ever demonstrated that level of power.


Originally posted by starking
Not really, seeing how Supes turned the Oe on him. And being able to get rid of somebody with a boomtube, isn't what I would call a "cheap tactic", seeing how doing so is NOT a win in Ds's favor, but him avoiding a fight. The spot could trick Spider-man into one of his hole thingies, but that doesn't mean he can beat him outright.
It doesn't have to be "cheap" in your eyes, it only has to be cheap in the eyes of DS to be applicable.





Originally posted by starking
But Orion, Agogg, Martian Manhunter, are VERY close, or even above Superman in durability. Agogg can take attacks from Lightray and Orion, then pwn both of them. Yet when he faces Ds himself, he's erased from existance. Mm should be on par with Supes in terms of duribility(not equal to, just close). Lobo should be, and I would say Secret is aswell, seeing how she can take attacks from Superboy, and others with little effect. He's also destroyed the Cyborg and a set of missles with the Oe, when Superman couldn't do shit to them. Hell, Superman has been teleported by the Oe, yet the wipeout function can't do shit for some reason. So that means Ds is holding back alot of power, or Dc is wanking him to a point were anything is possible. Besides. being able to resist the Oe, through nothing more than durability, is just pure idiotic.
Being teleported by the OE in no way indicates that he couldn't resist the erasing effect. Thor was able to teleport the Destroyer without to much trouble when he tried, but he still wasn't able to beat him despite the fact that his offesive capabilities came from the same source as his teleportation abilities(his hammer).




Originally posted by starking
Ok then, but I don't see how holding back SO MUCH power, as a cheap win to Ds. He's not that honorable, where he'll risk everything just to have a fair fight against Superman. That's not Ds being respectful, but Dc finding a way for Superman to be their top dog. See some of the ridiculous shit he's done lately, like pull Ds off the Source wall, when it takes an assload of power, to remove Yuga khan from it. Like I said, Dc likes to wank Superman.
Unfortunately for you and the rest of DS's fans, his sense of honor is still something that's been established by DC as being a part of his character. I'm no fan of how Surfer fights most of the time either(seeing as how he could kill many of his opponents with little effort if he tried), but my disliking it doesn't change Norrin's outlook on life(and because of that I don't ignore his mentality when I'm discussing him on a thread). That's why I don't give Surfer 10/10 against Supes, because Surfer's mentality limits him. See I'm a fan of the CHARACTER not the powerset, so I have to acknowledge the limitations that he imposes on himself rather than ignore them(as per forum rules).

Originally posted by darthgoober
You have to remember, Thanos's powers were upgraded TWICE between his fight against Odin and his blasting Galactus.

which is one other reason why thanos sucks so hard . . .



nah, the scene i'm talking about happened WELL before the gds. i've posted it in some threads a while back. this was when ds was raping pantheons and stealing their power. gds feats should be fine imo, but either way, i've not mentioned anything from that arc.



you're nitpicking, nor do i see galactus being any more or less vulnerable to a speculatory hyperspace blast than he would be to a cosmic blast. do you have proof g is more vulnerable to hyperspatial power?



nevertheless, tech's not inherent power. and i've no problem agreeing to disagree. the art/colour of galactus speaks pretty clearly to me that SOMETHING happened to him, (unless you think the colouring was an accident or something). just WHAT it meant is open to interpretation, but given the nature of the OE and given what ds was trying to do, it seems logical to assume he was at least partially affected by the blast to me.

and we're WAY off topic. without bfr i still don't see any easy way for thanos to win this fight. if you think thanos=darkseid, thanos loses. thanos needs to be a LOT more powerful than darkseid, imo, for him to be able to win this.

personally, i don't see him being a lot more powerful, though recently (the avatar theory aside) i would give the slight nod in displayed power to thanos. but i don't think the difference is big enough to say thanos definitely wins this. in a straight 1on1 cell-type battle, i still lean to h/p dd.

Originally posted by leonidas
and we're WAY off topic. without bfr i still don't see any easy way for thanos to win this fight. if you think thanos=darkseid, thanos loses. thanos needs to be a LOT more powerful than darkseid, imo, for him to be able to win this.

personally, i don't see him being a lot more powerful, though recently (the avatar theory aside) i would give the slight nod in displayed power to thanos. but i don't think the difference is big enough to say thanos definitely wins this. in a straight 1on1 cell-type battle, i still lean to h/p dd.

Avatar theory aside? how is it a theory when it's what happened? It's a fact.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos has battlefield removal options, though it would be fairly uncommon for him to incorporate them.
Other than runnin and hiding or teleporting Doomsday away, Doomsday smashes him up.

I have alsways believed in the evidence for Avatars.

Originally posted by llagrok
Avatar theory aside? how is it a theory when it's what happened? It's a fact.

didn't say I never believed it.

it's just a little convenient is my only problem with the idea, and it makes debating darkseid VERY difficult since (a) we don't know how powerful his 'true' form is, and (b) it has also been said that in his 'true' form he cannot be beaten on the physical plane.

but then thanos gets upgraded every 3 issues or so, and all his bad showings are retconned to clones, so really, why should i complain?

Originally posted by cyber tuff guy!
I have alsways believed in the evidence for Avatars.

you strike me as an intelligent lad.

Originally posted by leonidas
which is one other reason why thanos sucks so hard . . .
You may not like the character, but there's no denying the power. And in the next part of your post you even confirm that DS had something of a power up himself(in the form of his stealing the power away from nameless pantheons) so I don't know how you can consider DS any better.



Originally posted by leonidas
nah, the scene i'm talking about happened WELL before the gds. i've posted it in some threads a while back. this was when ds was raping pantheons and stealing their power. gds feats should be fine imo, but either way, i've not mentioned anything from that arc.
Cool, what issue/arc is it from so I can check it out(I've been studying up of DS as of late)?



Originally posted by leonidas
you're nitpicking, nor do i see galactus being any more or less vulnerable to a speculatory hyperspace blast than he would be to a cosmic blast. do you have proof g is more vulnerable to hyperspatial power?
How am I nitpicking? Galactus and the Celestials are both cosmic entities who's powers are rooted to Eternity, so if her FF is extra effective against one, then it makes sense for it to be extra effective against the other.



Originally posted by leonidas
nevertheless, tech's not inherent power. and i've no problem agreeing to disagree. the art/colour of galactus speaks pretty clearly to me that SOMETHING happened to him, (unless you think the colouring was an accident or something). just WHAT it meant is open to interpretation, but given the nature of the OE and given what ds was trying to do, it seems logical to assume he was at least partially affected by the blast to me.
Technically the OE isn't really inherent to DS either to my understanding, it's a gift/theft from the Source, so I still don't see THAT big of a distinction.

And I honestly always took it to mean absolutely nothing. Think about it, if someone throws fireballs that explode on contact and they use them against someone who's completely unphased by the power of the attack, their still going to explode and give the exact same visual effect it's just that in the aftermath the person hit wouldn't be damaged. I think the OE was TRYING to do its thing(with the color effect being the equivalent of the exploding flame effect), it just that when the dust cleared Big G was unharmed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You may not like the character, but there's no denying the power. And in the next part of your post you even confirm that DS had something of a power up himself(in the form of his stealing the power away from nameless pantheons) so I don't know how you can consider DS any better.

killing gods and TAKING their power is a lot different from the editors saying -- he's not tough enough, let's float out some crap that will give him even more power. and if THE END is non-canon (which the editors say it is) then the most recent power-up is non-existent anyway.



i'll need to check. near the start of the first vol of new gods i think.



so sue should be able to take out ss or any herald or any being with cosmic energy since cosmic energy is the energy of the universe and hence is rooted in eternity?

nuh-uh, not buying that at all. the celestials it was speculated actually EXIST in the hyperspace realm -- all sue did was was essentially banish the celestial back to its home plane. she did not 'destroy' one which i've heard said once or twice. and since g doesn't exist in that realm, there is no reason whatsoever that her power should have any additional affect on him.



darkseid gained the OE buy TAKING it/absorbing it from the infinity pit. it was supposed to be his brother drax's power, but seid sabotaged him and stole it. as far as i know the notion that the OE has any relation to the source is a myth, unless someone has evidence to the contrary. regardless -- the power IS his, inherent in him. it is in no way similar to a tech addition.



your perogative.

Originally posted by leonidas
killing gods and TAKING their power is a lot different from the editors saying -- he's not tough enough, let's float out some crap that will give him even more power. and if THE END is non-canon (which the editors say it is) then the most recent power-up is non-existent anyway.



i'll need to check. near the start of the first vol of new gods i think.



so sue should be able to take out ss or any herald or any being with cosmic energy since cosmic energy is the energy of the universe and hence is rooted in eternity?

nuh-uh, not buying that at all. the celestials it was speculated actually EXIST in the hyperspace realm -- all sue did was was essentially banish the celestial back to its home plane. she did not 'destroy' one which i've heard said once or twice. and since g doesn't exist in that realm, there is no reason whatsoever that her power should have any additional affect on him.



darkseid gained the OE buy TAKING it/absorbing it from the infinity pit. it was supposed to be his brother drax's power, but seid sabotaged him and stole it. as far as i know the notion that the OE has any relation to the source is a myth, unless someone has evidence to the contrary.



your perogative.

I forget where i have read it, but DS has commented on his power and orion's astro force. Both coming from the source and how DS power can do many things like grant life while Orion's gift can only destroy. Just my two cents. YOu know I dont know the issue numbers cuz I have bad memory so forgive me.

The god killing happened in continuity. They've mentioned in several of the New Gods volumes, as well as ORION's solo series.