Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Snafu's Notes: You can't say that this is a good matchup. I like both Ayane and Sagat and this was done at the request of a dear friend of mine.

In an attempt to heal the rift between Kasumi and Ayane following Kasumi's return to the clan, Hayate decides that the three of them should go on a small holiday.

They travel to Hawaii, where Hayate has friends who run a Karate Dojo. During this time, Ayane reluctantly comes to a truce with her half-sister (and admits that she would have done the same thing concerning Raidou).

When they return to the Karate Dojo, they find one of the members out cold. Hayate learns that one of the senior members had challenged a kickboxer to a match. Said kickboxer knocked the guy out in one blow.

Seeing that he haven't had a good fight since the Tritower, Hayate decides to seek this man out, much to Kasumi and Ayane's chagrin. The trio find the man training on a beach.

There was one problem: he was kicking at a palm tree, knocking coconuts out of it with each strike.

Then the man notices his visitors. Hayate, Kasumi and Ayane look up at the mountain of muscle which is the bald, one-eyed, seven-foot-three, 300 pound Emperor of Muay Thai, Sagat.

Sagat's one eye looks down at Hayate. "Let me guess...you came for a match?"

Sagat was in Hawaii to meditate and reflect on his career as a kickboxer.

Hayate charged in. "You know what they say. 'The bigger they are...'"

"Tiger...Crush!"

Knee meets face as Hayate is KO'ed before he hits the ground.

Kasumi winced. "The more bones they break?"

Ayane decides to take a crack at Sagat. She issues a direct challenge at Sagat in the name of the Mugen Tenshin clan.

Sagat accepts the challenge. "Never fought a ninja before. This will prove to be interesting indeed. You will be a good match before I meet up with him again."

Ayane, easily.

Ayane will obliterate him.

...

What's with the Ayane over rating?

I mean...she is fast, powerful and skilled...but people just assume she will always nimpo blast the crap out of her opponents for an instant win.

---

Strength: Sagat. 'Nuff Said.

Speed: Ayane. No doubt.

Durability: Sagat. Taking dark hadou amped shoryukens and living.

Technique: Tie. Sagat is very skilled. He became the emperor when he was a teenager. Was undefeated until Ryu cheapshotted him. Ayane on the other hand beat Genra as a teenager. I'd say both of them are equally skilled in their respective arts.

Chi/Nimpo: Ayane has capacity for more destructive power. However that does not mean Sagat's chi abilities are weak.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
...

What's with the Ayane over rating?


You've noticed that too, I wasn't going to bother because it's a double standard around here. If Gouki defeats powerful people, everyone get's pissed. But, if: Iori, Ayane, and Jin win every versus it's okay.

They didn't even bother to state why she wins. They are doing exactly what ruins threads.

"Character x wins."

No argument. No feats. Nothing.

---

ROFL@Sagat saying he has never fought a ninja before after taking out Hayate(ninja) in one shot. Well...he's right it wasn't even a fight.

Sagat is maybe not so fast as Ayane

but Sagat in Sf 2 had the fastest projectile in the game

and to me, Ayane is not so special

Originally posted by shin_remy
Sagat is maybe not so fast as Ayane

but Sagat in Sf 2 had the fastest projectile in the game

and to me, Ayane is not so special

I was talking about combat speed. Her teleport can make his projectile useless.

I can post two videos, once of which show Ayane incinerating a building and the residents in it, and another showing her destroying multiple soldiers and the bridge connecting the DOATEC scyscrapers. What "feats" does Sagat have that comes anywhere close to that?

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
I can post two videos, once of which show Ayane incinerating a building and the residents in it, and another showing her destroying multiple soldiers and the bridge connecting the DOATEC scyscrapers. What "feats" does Sagat have that comes anywhere close to that?
Who cares?
Her ninpo takes too long for her to use in a fight. Why do you think Hayate had to protect her while she was doing it. She would never be able to use it ina real fight. Infact, she almost got shot whilst doing it and the explosion almost killed her.

Also, the building was ablaze before she performed the Ninpo.

gBWEXu5LiU4

And as I proved a couple of weeks ago her ninpo took at most 5-6 seconds to do due to all the slow motion sequences. The instant she starts doing it everything's clearly in slow motion. The bullets passing by Hayate and Ayane are moving so incredibly slow that it might've actually taken less time that what I just mentioned.

Take away those feats and Sagat still loses badly.

I'm talking about the one shown in Bayman's ending. That was not on fire before the attack was unleashed.

Sagat rapes her like the wannabe black man he is. And in fighting, 5-6 seconds is a long, long time.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
And as I proved a couple of weeks ago her ninpo took at most 5-6 seconds to do due to all the slow motion sequences.

Nope, the slow motion sequences occured before she performed the Ninpo And when she released it. again, Hayate had to cover her and she was almost shot.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/blaxican_templar/Ayane_pwned-1.jpg

The real question is, can Sagat beat Scorpion? If he can then he can beat Ayane easily. Behold my golden A>B>C argument.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear


I'm talking about the one shown in Bayman's ending. That was not on fire before the attack was unleashed.

It's the same ninpo and the bridge was already on fire.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Nope, the slow motion sequences occured before she performed the Ninpo And when she released it.Exactly, so why are you saying it takes so long to charge up?

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
again, Hayate had to cover her and she was almost shot. By multpile soldiers armed with rifles at once, not to mention while she was performing the ninpo she was doing in some soldiers herself. Also she's not trying to wreck a building is she no she's trying to destroy one person, Sagat.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
It's the same ninpo and the bridge was already on fire. It'll destroy Sagat within two seconds, because it vaporized those people in the buildings.

You just said it took 5-6 seconds. That's an awfully long time.

You might as well be trying to take down a building. Thsi is Sagat we're talking about.




Nah, in the supposedly 5-6 secodns it takes she'll have already been t-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-iiiii gerrr UPPERCUT'ed.

Whatever..believe what you want. I'm not going to get you to agree regardless.

I love you for that.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
Exactly, so why are you saying it takes so long to charge up?

*Sigh* because the charge up happened after the slow motion sequence. She was in-realtime during said conjuring, and not in-slow motion like you claimed.


Originally posted by Guilty Gear

By multpile soldiers armed with rifles at once, not to mention while she was performing the ninpo she was doing in some soldiers herself.

No, she wasn't, she stood still while performing said ninpo. The soldiers were taken out by hayate.


Originally posted by Guilty Gear

Also she's not trying to wreck a building is she no she's trying to destroy one person, Sagat.
It'll destroy Sagat within two seconds, because it vaporized those people in the buildings.

Do you have any proof to support your claim that time would be different because of the target?

Infact, during DOA 2 when she performeed a ninpo on Kasumi it tookf forever to finish.

Ayane is raped by Sagat.
The moment she tries to use her Ninpo no metsu, he uses Tiger Genocides on her ass.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
You just said it took 5-6 seconds. That's an awfully long time.Not really. When you can teleport around it's not big of a deal. Plus Ayane simply needs put in much less time performing it and she'd still get the job done against her opponent.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
You might as well be trying to take down a building. Thsi is Sagat we're talking about.Right...what "feats" does Sagat have that makes him as tough as a building?

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Nah, in the supposedly 5-6 secodns it takes she'll have already been t-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-iiiii gerrr UPPERCUT'ed. Well let's not worry about that since 1 or 2 seconds of charge-up time should do Sagat in, and Ayane's teleport will null all of his attacks anyway.

So you shortened it from 5-6 seconds to 1-2? Where are you getting your information from? I really would like to see it.

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
Ayane is raped by Sagat.
The moment she tries to use her Ninpo no metsu, he uses Tiger Genocides on her ass. Oh please, if Ayane could get raped by someone as pathetic as Sagat she would've been destroyed instantly by Genra, who she overcame. Don't tell me someone who lost to the likes of Adon can defeat someone who killed Genra, and even though that isn't perfectly logical to say it most definitely means something. Sagat has no feats whatsover that can compete with Ayane's. I am really getting sick of the SF fanwankery here.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear

Right...what "feats" does Sagat have that makes him as tough as a building?

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc Fallacy

Ayane was not responsible for the destruction that occured on the Tri-Towers.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
So you shortened it from 5-6 seconds to 1-2? Where are you getting your information from? I really would like to see it. No, I said if she puts in less time she'd still do in Sagat, not the building she incinerated with the people in it.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Ayane did not destroy the Tri-Towers, and she's never going to get that Ninpo in time. Whatever. Sagat does not win anyway. Just because her feats "won't help her" (lol) she'd still defeat Sagat. What makes you think Sagat would beat her if she can take on the likes of Hayabusa and Genra?

It's irrelevant at this moment in time though, because still the dilemma that is how fast did it actually take her to charge up her nimpo in the first place is still being debated. And it's funny how everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else.

"OGZ GUILTY GEARZ IS TOTALLY A FANBOY HOMO LOLZ"

"STFU I'm tired of your SF fanwankery, get banned!"

"No you!"

"No you!"

Childish.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
It's irrelevant at this moment in time though, because still the dilemma that is how fast did it actually take her to charge up her nimpo in the first place is still being debated. And it's funny how everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else.

"OGZ GUILTY GEARZ IS TOTALLY A FANBOY HOMO LOLZ"

http://www.sweetpaul.com/images/funny/tigeruppercut.jpg

First of all, no one has called anyone a fanboy.

This is funny though since no one stated a reason as to why Sagat would win.

All we've heard of so far is Blaxican saying ZOMG HE'D TIIIIIIIIIGER UPPER CUT HER while jerking off to Sagat action figures and another person simply claiming Sagat would rape her, lol.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
Oh please, if Ayane could get raped by someone as pathetic as Sagat she would've been destroyed instantly by Genra, who she overcame.

A>B>C, it's easy as 1-2-3, as simple as Doe Ray Me.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear

Don't tell me someone who lost to the likes of Adon can defeat someone who killed Genra, and even though that isn't perfectly logical to say it most definitely means something. Sagat has no feats whatsover that can compete with Ayane's. I am really getting sick of the SF fanwankery here.

Red Herring- What does Adon and Genra have to do with this?

Half - truth- Sagat was unfocused and vulnerable.

And the only thign you've said is that Ayane wins because of her nimp. Just as bad as my Tiger Uppercut. And I said that in the 5-6 seconds to charge her Nimp he would TU her. So ha.

I'm actually mentioning feats.

Feats that go far above anything Sagat's ever done, in his life.

It's ok though, because Sagat wins against all of his opponents despite his pathetic "feats" falling nowhere close to the feats of the opponents he goes up against here.

Farewell and clean your action figures after your done with them.

OOHHHHH Ashtar OWNED Xenogears

HAHAHAHAHAHAAA that's one of the funniest things i ever have seen around here

Red Herring-

Half - truth-

Yay I beat Guilty Gears in a debate again. My superiority is unmatched.

And, what are ayane's "Feats" that put her above sagat. Because you've been attempting to assert that Ninpo> Sagat.

She's not a Street Fighter Character, hence, she is superior.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
She's not a Street Fighter Character, hence, she is superior.
Silly me, how could I forget.

Because you're obviously a fanboy

Dayum!

this is getting really stupid!
first you put this DOA b!tch up against Geese and then Scorpian and now Sagat!

SAGAT WOULD TIGER GENOCIDE THAT INBRED WHORE BACK TO BANGKOK OR WHERE EVER THE F*CK SHE COMES FROM!

SF>DOA

Off the top of my head, Sagat's track record include:

Pros:

- National hero in Thailand
- Skilled at free diving, and can hold his breath for 20 minutes underwater.
- Won the Muay Thai title from Nuah Kahn when he was 15 years old
- Former World Warrior champion
- First two Thai kickboxers in fighting game history (both he and Adon set the stage for other kickboxers such as Joe Higashi, Zack and others)

Cons:

- One-time member of Shadowlaw (or Shadaloo, if you prefer)
- Lost only to Ryu (via cheapshot with the Metsushoryuken), Adon (who was pissed that Sagat lost to said fighter and Sagat wasn't focused during this match), and Dan (Sagat intentionally threw this match)
- Killed Go Hibiki for destroying his right eye

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Post hoc ergo prompter hoc Fallacy

Ayane was not responsible for the destruction that occured on the Tri-Towers.

Now lets not underrate her. She is partially responsible for the destruction of the Tri-Towers.

---
Guilty Gear the problem with Ayane's DOA4 Nimpo is that it is a feat not easily reproduced in battle. For her to pull it off Sagat would have to allow it; either willingly or not.

Don't get angry because we're discussing against Ayane. Just come up with reasons/ways for her to perform it.

The Teleportation is a good asset. She could teleport her ass a fair distance from Sagat and attempt the nimpo pawnage.

She can attempt to stun him and then go for the kill.

I am pretty sure you can think of other ways to pull it off.

Originally posted by colonelf40
this is getting really stupid!
first you put this DOA b!tch up against Geese and then Scorpian and now Sagat!

SAGAT WOULD TIGER GENOCIDE THAT INBRED WHORE BACK TO BANGKOK OR WHERE EVER THE F*CK SHE COMES FROM!

SF>DOA

Seriously, WTF? It's a thread, and Ayane's Japanese, Dickhole.

Originally posted by Snafu the Great
Off the top of my head, Sagat's track record include:

Pros:

- National hero in Thailand
- Skilled at free diving, and can hold his breath for 20 minutes underwater.
- Won the Muay Thai title from Nuah Kahn when he was 15 years old
- Former World Warrior champion
- First two Thai kickboxers in fighting game history (both he and Adon set the stage for other kickboxers such as Joe Higashi, Zack and others)

Cons:

- One-time member of Shadowlaw (or Shadaloo, if you prefer)
- Lost only to Ryu (via cheapshot with the Metsushoryuken), Adon (who was pissed that Sagat lost to said fighter and Sagat wasn't focused during this match), and Dan (Sagat intentionally threw this match)
- Killed Go Hibiki for destroying his right eye

How is he the former World Warrior champion when he lost to Ryu in the first World Warrior tournament?

Killing Go Hibiki does not mean much to be honest.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime


Killing Go Hibiki does not mean much to be honest.

He critically damaged every internal organ in his body. Though, he did not die right away. The fact that he was beaten to death shows that an enraged Sagat is dangerous.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/sagat-ce1.jpg

Why did he kill Go? I can't remember.

Originally posted by FortressXRuler
Why did he kill Go? I can't remember.

Because Go gouged out his right eye.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
How is he the former World Warrior champion when he lost to Ryu in the first World Warrior tournament?

Killing Go Hibiki does not mean much to be honest.

From various (questionable) sources, some say Sagat was the champion before Ryu won it from him.

Originally posted by Snafu the Great
From various (questionable) sources, some say Sagat was the champion before Ryu won it from him.

Gamest mooks?

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
He critically damaged every internal organ in his body. Though, he did not die right away. The fact that he was beaten to death shows that an enraged Sagat is dangerous.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/sagat-ce1.jpg

Doesn't really mean much to me. Anyone while enraged is dangerous.

Damn, R.I.P Go rip

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Doesn't really mean much to me. Anyone while enraged is dangerous.

Can anyone critically damage all your internal organs barehanded resulting in death?

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Can anyone critically damage all your internal organs, causing you to die?

I am pretty sure Ayane could blast me out of existence if I pinched her ass and told her she had a fine ass.

Now..if someone could do it in real life is irrelevant because we ain't discussing reality here. We're discussing characters that can blast buildings and hurricane kick sunken ships.

Yes. Even an angered 2-year old can suffocate an adult by sticking thier pacifier down thier throat if that adult took thier bottle.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I am pretty sure Ayane could blast me out of existence if I pinched her ass and told her she had a fine ass.

Now..if someone could do it in real life is irrelevant because we ain't discussing reality here. We're discussing characters that can blast buildings and hurricane kick sunken ships.

I never made any associations to real life and I mean't barehanded strikes not with Ki blast.

Originally posted by FortressXRuler
Yes. Even an angered 2-year old can suffocate an adult by sticking thier pacifier down thier throat if that adult took thier bottle.

What relation does tha have with beating someone to death barehanded and damaging all their internal organs.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
I never made any associations to real life and I mean't barehanded strikes not with Ki blast.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Can anyone critically damage all your internal organs barehanded resulting in death?

Excuse me for misunderstanding "your" in that question.

As for barehanded...I am certain that if Jann Lee can knock out a T-Rex with a jumping sidekick and an uppercut then he can damage all my internal organs if he felt like it. He wouldn't even need to be pissed.

It damages the lungs, and 2-year old can also cry to the point that you become deaf, they will beat you senseless with thier bottles like Hayabusa. I can go on, but I want to stay on topic.

Originally posted by FortressXRuler
It damages the lungs, and 2-year old can also cry to the point that you become deaf, they will beat you senseless with thier bottles like Hayabusa. I can go on, but I want to stay on topic.

A two year old cannot beat a grown individual to death barehanded just because Sagat can. Also, this is on topic since were talking about sagat. Infact, A two year old cannot doing what you just listed has nothing to do with Sagat beating Go hibiki to death barehanded. That's an Association Fallacy.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Excuse me for misunderstanding "your" in that question.

As for barehanded...I am certain that if Jann Lee can knock out a T-Rex with a jumping sidekick and an uppercut then he can damage all my internal organs if he felt like it. He wouldn't even need to be pissed.
It was a rhetorical question, I'm aware that others could replicate said feat. But, not everyone can like you said.

How the **** does a 2 year old get compared to Hayabusa?

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
How the **** does a 2 year old get compared to Hayabusa?

You tell me.

Some 2-year olds possess latent abilities, if they master it by the time they are Hayabusa's age, you get the idea. I'm bored, so don't blame me.

Originally posted by FortressXRuler
I'm bored, so don't blame me.

We realized this long ago.

Originally posted by FortressXRuler
Some 2-year olds possess latent abilities, if they master it by the time they are Hayabusa's age, you get the idea. I'm bored, so don't blame me.
Check out the new thread just made.

Well why didn't you tell me I was bored?

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
A two year old cannot beat a grown individual to death barehanded just because Sagat can. Also, this is on topic since were talking about sagat. Infact, A two year old cannot doing what you just listed has nothing to do with Sagat beating Go hibiki to death barehanded. That's an Association Fallacy.


It was a rhetorical question, I'm aware that others could replicate said feat. But, not everyone can like you said.

I didn't say anyone could replicate Sagat's feat though. I mainly pointed out that any person can be dangerous when angry. Unless of course we're talking about a 2 year old or someone with some sort of handicap.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I didn't say anyone could replicate Sagat's feat though.
Oh, my bad then.

No prob. hey btw have you seen Too Human's latest trailer? We'll get to add another cyborg to our list of fighters...YAY dur

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eO2wawZ740A

WooHoo!

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Gamest mooks?

Capcom of Japan, last time I checked. They may have redone his storyline. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

So getting back on topic...where were we?

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
So getting back on topic...where were we?
Sagat winning.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Sagat winning.

Oh yeah.

I don't see him winning 10/10 though.

He will still have to deal with Ayane's teleportation and her superior combat speed. Not to mention I give her 1-2 wins via Nimpo if Ayane plays it smart and sets Sagat up for the Nimpo.

I say 8/10 for sagat.

No, 7/10

Originally posted by FortressXRuler
No, 7/10

I disagree, 8/10 for me.

I disagree 7/10.

More like 2/10 for Sagat.

Sagat's power is deadly. If he hits her he will hit her hard and Ayane is going to feel it.

However her speed is a big asset and it combined with her teleportation can keep her in the fight for a long time.

But eventually he IS going to nail her. And I don't see Ayane getting back up after he does.

And like I said earlier I give Ayane 2 wins with Nimpo by setting Sagat up.

It's a good fight IMO.

6/10 Sagat.

I doubt ayane can put him down without ninpo.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Oh yeah.

I don't see him winning 10/10 though.

He will still have to deal with Ayane's teleportation and her superior combat speed. Not to mention I give her 1-2 wins via Nimpo if Ayane plays it smart and sets Sagat up for the Nimpo.

Sagat didn't get to where he is by being rash. He could use Ayane's teleport against her.

Ayane's fast, but given Sagat's strength and power, she will annoy him to the point that when she teleports again, Sagat can telegraph it and punish her with a Tiger Cannon, Raid or Genocide.

I done it many times in CvSNK when a person using a teleport move came out of it. Only when coming out of a teleport move is the opponent most open for attack.

Going by gameplay Ayane can counter no problem right after a teleport.

Sagat could easily tag ayane with a perfectly calculated telegraph and Tiger shots.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
I doubt ayane can put him down without ninpo.

I think she can do it. She had no other choice but to melee Genra for the win. And Genra was heavily armored.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I think she can do it. She had no other choice but to melee Genra for the win. And Genra was heavily armored.

Her fight with Genra was ambigous.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Her fight with Genra was ambigous.

Genra had to be put down with melees. Genra's nimpo was more powerful than Ayane's. Not to mention in gameplay powerful long-range priority attacks are his greatest strength, keeping the player in a defensive position and unable to attack. He also features a shockwave attack that activates whenever knocked down. His throws feature a low damage ratio and his attacks have a noticeable wind-up time frame and can be blocked normally.
I do believe she had to melee him for the win. And that melee fight might not have been easy with Genra's dual lightsaber ripoff.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Genra had to be put down with melees. Genra's nimpo was more powerful than Ayane's.

Genra having powerful ninpo's doesn't really mean he has to be put down by melee. Besides, Ayane has demonstrated a much more powerful ninpo.



Originally posted by Superboy Prime

Not to mention in gameplay powerful long-range priority attacks are his greatest strength, keeping the player in a defensive position and unable to attack. He also features a shockwave attack that activates whenever knocked down. His throws feature a low damage ratio and his attacks have a noticeable wind-up time frame and can be blocked normally.
I do believe she had to melee him for the win. And that melee fight might not have been easy with Genra's dual lightsaber ripoff.

True, but that's your speculation, and even if it's likely. There isn't really anything that is logically solid to back it up. So, I don't believe it's applicable as a feat for Ayane against Sagat.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Genra having powerful ninpo's doesn't really mean he has to be put down by melee.

Genra being her superior with Ninpo means it is not likely she outpowered him. The fact Ayane has shown us she has a start-up time delay while Genra does not strengthens this.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu

Besides, Ayane has demonstrated a much more powerful ninpo.

She demonstrated a more powerful ninpo in a game that took place after the events of DOA3. In all likelyhood she has just grown stronger.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu

True, but that's your speculation, and even if it's likely. There isn't really anything that is logically solid to back it up. So, I don't believe it's applicable as a feat for ayane.

I know it's speculation, but I don't think I am being irrational. I don't think it should be simply tossed aside, but I can understand you not buying it.

---

One more thing I wanted to point out is that Ayane is a very unpredictable fighter. Sagat perfectly predicting Ayane is wishful thinking.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Genra being her superior with Ninpo means it is not likely she outpowered him. The fact Ayane has shown us she has a start-up time delay while Genra does not strengthens this.

Superior start up time=Superior ninpo?


Originally posted by Superboy Prime

She demonstrated a more powerful ninpo in a game that took place after the events of DOA3. In all likelyhood she has just grown stronger.

I know it's speculation, but I don't think I am being irrational.

There's no evidence suggesting that she is inferior to Genra in the ninpo department. But, that's irrelevant since we do not know how the fight went down.

So, how can we use it as a feat for a versus?

Originally posted by Superboy Prime

One more thing I wanted to point out is that Ayane is a very unpredictable fighter. Sagat perfectly predicting Ayane is wishful thinking.

I disagree, Sagat and others could easily telegraph her. Sagat has the tools needed to punish Ayane's teleport and in my opinion is better at H2h in certain area's.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Superior start up time=Superior ninpo?

Superior start up time = better chances of successfully performing ninpo without getting interrupted.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=omikKbnYLME
At 00:52 Genra meets Hayabusa and shoots a fireblast that destroys that village.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bx3ujJL4kWU
At 04:22 Ayane encounters Genra in a forest covered in snow. Before they engage in battle he burns everything.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z2TUFWLOKCw
At 03:15 Ayane uses Ninpo to blast Kasumi. Do note the long ass time it takes her to pull it off...and the fact it did nothing but show us flashy light.

That is the only time Ayane has used Ninpo besides DOA4. In DOA4 she took less time and she was able to bring forth more destructive power. She has indeed grown stronger over the course of DOA's history.


Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu

There's no evidence suggesting that she is inferior to Genra in the ninpo department. But, that's irrelevant since we do not know how the fight went down.

I do think there is enough evidence to say he was indeed more powerful than her by DOA3. Not to mention she only became the most powerful Hajinmon ninja after killing Genra.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu

So, how can we use it as a feat for a versus?

The feat is Ayane taking Genra down, or are you going to take that away from her? My speculation on how she took him down is just me explaining the reason I believe she can put Sagat down without ninpo. Fact of the matter is it's up to you and anyone else reading this to agree with me or not.

There's no need to tell me you agree with me. I know you don't.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu

I disagree, Sagat and others could easily telegraph her. Sagat has the tools needed to punish Ayane's teleport and in my opinion is better at H2h in certain area's.

I will agree to disagree then. Ayane is top tier in DOA. It is a fact she is the most unpredictable character in DOA and that she has the biggest movelist in DOA.

Wow. How did I miss a debate involving Ayane?

In any case, regardless of how much I like her, Ayane is being overrated a bit lately.

At the same time, Sagat isn't going to put her down with just one attack.

Strength: I'll give Sagat this one. However, Ayane has demonstrated a rediculous amount of leg strength when she traversed a canyon by leaping from wall to wall to get to Kasumi.

Speed: Ayane.

Durability: Initially I was going to say Sagat, but Ayane did take a debatably mountain leveling blast directly and was unscathed. I'll still give Sagat the edge here for the sake of argument.

Skill: Same.

Weapons/Ki/Ninpo: Ayane has more powerful ninpo but some of it takes a bit to charge. She also has weapons though. She has the advantage here.

Fight assessment:

Ayane can take this IF she plays this smart. Sagat is a dangerous opponent. She needs to fight very counter-offensively and pick her shots. Making full use of her teleportation will allow her to avoid any serious damage. She needs to use her akward fighting style and throwing weapons to keep Sagat from launching a fully committed assault. If she can avoid too many Tiger Waves, she'll be able to wear him down. After he is worn down, Ayane can do of her signature finishes. I recommend she use the energy ball instead of the ground punch though for distance purposes.

Of course if she rushes in like she so brazenly did against Raidou, she'll probably bite it.

If Ayane plays it safe, she could take a 5.5-6/10

If she doesn't, Sagat will land one too many tiger uppercuts on her and I'll be forced to kick his ass.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Superior start up time = better chances of successfully performing ninpo without getting interrupted.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=omikKbnYLME
At 00:52 Genra meets Hayabusa and shoots a fireblast that destroys that village.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bx3ujJL4kWU
At 04:22 Ayane encounters Genra in a forest covered in snow. Before they engage in battle he burns everything.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z2TUFWLOKCw
At 03:15 Ayane uses Ninpo to blast Kasumi. Do note the long ass time it takes her to pull it off...and the fact it did nothing but show us flashy light.

Genra's flame abilities are more destructive than ayane's, so I'll concede that point.







Originally posted by Superboy Prime

The feat is Ayane taking Genra down, or are you going to take that away from her? My speculation on how she took him down is just me explaining the reason I believe she can put Sagat down without ninpo. Fact of the matter is it's up to you and anyone else reading this to agree with me or not.

There's no need to tell me you agree with me. I know you don't.

I don't have a problem with ayane taking Genra down, but I don't believe we should give her stats of an ambigous fight. It's the same way with people giving Ryu durability because he fought with Gouki.


Originally posted by Superboy Prime

I will agree to disagree then. Ayane is top tier in DOA. It is a fact she is the most unpredictable character in DOA and that she has the biggest movelist in DOA.

Where is it stated that she is an unpredictable fighter?

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
I don't have a problem with ayane taking Genra down, but I don't believe we should give her stats of an ambigous fight. It's the same way with people giving Ryu durability because he fought with Gouki.


well i did in the Ken vs Paul thread

In which Sado had a fit.

Originally posted by shin_remy
well i did in the Ken vs Paul thread Hm, it's hard to say. The ninja's in doa are known for using weapins during fights, So, I personally doubt it's the same as Ryu fighting Gouki. But, I also doubt ryu in alpha could take an island sinking hit and survive. Also, gouki was going easy on Ryu.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Genra's flame abilities are more destructive than ayane's, so I'll concede that point.

I don't have a problem with ayane taking Genra down, but I don't believe we should give her stats of an ambigous fight. It's the same way with people giving Ryu durability because he fought with Gouki.


Where is it stated that she is an unpredictable fighter?

Problem with SF fans claiming Ryu can withstand island shattering points is that it is non-sense. Who is to say Gouki did not employ all his might to destroy that island?

On Ayane's case I am simply stating she should hit hard(though not as hard as Sagat) considering Genra was fully armored. That is why I think that her speed and evasive maneuvers can be useful in eventually taking him down even without Ninpo.

Ayane's style unorthodox. When you play her at high level competitive play she is very hard to read. She is even more dangerous when she exposes her back to her opponent. In-gameplay her speed, high list of moves and her ability to evade hits are a real pain in the ass.

I still think Sagat takes 6 out of ten because all it takes for him to win is for Ayane to screw up.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Problem with SF fans claiming Ryu can withstand island shattering points is that it is non-sense. Who is to say Gouki did not employ all his might to destroy that island?

Because Gouki with all his might is Shin Gouki.


Originally posted by Superboy Prime

On Ayane's case I am simply stating she should hit hard(though not as hard as Sagat) considering Genra was fully armored. That is why I think that her speed and evasive maneuvers can be useful in eventually taking him down even without Ninpo.

I believe she can hit hard regardless if the opponent is wearing armour becase in the martial arts there are ways to hit an armored opponent. I'm just wooried someone will use it for A>B>C logic.


Originally posted by Superboy Prime

Ayane's style unorthodox. When you play her at high level competitive play she is very hard to read. She is even more dangerous when she exposes her back to her opponent. In-gameplay her speed, high list of moves and her ability to evade hits are a real pain in the ass.

I still think Sagat takes 6 out of ten because all it takes for him to win is for Ayane to screw up.

Well, ninjustsu is an unorthodox method of fighting, but Ayane's hard to read mostly during rush downs. I doubt she can do that to sagat easily.

True about Shin Gouki being his not held back might...but it still does not mean Gouki will be pounding on Ryu with island shattering points. And I'll stop discussing about Ryu. It is clear you agree with me on not using that to prove Ryu's durability...and Ryu is a dangerous character here with his ability to kill threads. So...I'm banning him from this thread...!

Gouki wasn't trying to kill Ryu.

i don't get it superboy prime

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Gouki wasn't trying to kill Ryu.

Ok. End of discussion.

Originally posted by shin_remy
i don't get it superboy prime

Take it to a Ryu thread if you are going to discuss Ryu.

uuuhh

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Take it to a Ryu thread if you are going to discuss Ryu.

who said i would

Originally posted by shin_remy
who said i would

Just making sure we keep this thread alive by not derailing it out of existence.

i never go offtopic !!

We're doing that right now.

Minus the ninpo, I can't see Ayane taking any matches. Sagat is just too damn tough. And the speed difference doesn't matter much when most of her attacks won't slow him down, whereas his attacks will break her. I don't see her taking 3 tiger uppercuts. I give her speed and skill props, but her durability isn't good enough to survive more than a few tiger uppercuts.

God help her if she pisses him off..... btw Snafu is right. The teleport is a liability if she overuses it. And I don't care about DOA's shitty game mechanics, she's not countering a tiger genocide, tiger raid or a tiger shot when she comes out of a teleport. Even blocking attacks like that will wear her down considerably.

mmm Tigers. Tony the Tiger would be proud.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Minus the ninpo, I can't see Ayane taking any matches. Sagat is just too damn tough. And the speed difference doesn't matter much when most of her attacks won't slow him down, whereas his attacks will break her. I don't see her taking 3 tiger uppercuts. I give her speed and skill props, but her durability isn't good enough to survive more than a few tiger uppercuts.

Sagat is just too damn tough is not really an argument. Don't discount speed difference. She has phenomenal leg power. Speed + leg strength + unpredictability + smart use of teleportation can be really dangerous. Who's saying Ayane will let him Tiger Uppercut her 3 times? Considering their difference in size I think she is smart enough to realize she does not want to get hit by him.


Originally posted by TricksterPriest

God help her if she pisses him off..... btw Snafu is right. The teleport is a liability if she overuses it. And I don't care about DOA's shitty game mechanics, she's not countering a tiger genocide, tiger raid or a tiger shot when she comes out of a teleport. Even blocking attacks like that will wear her down considerably.

God help Sagat if he pisses Ayane off. She won't be playing nice then. She will go for the kill using her blade. Ayane is not stupid, TP. She will not be spamming teleports in every second of the match. She does not need to anyway. If she needed distance she could jump a far distance away from him. BTW it does speak poorly of your debating skills to just ignore her ability to counter because you think DOA's game mechanics are shitty.

Also don't discredit Ayane's durability. She did take an area leveling ninpo without a scratch. Although I agree that Sagat has her beat in the durability department.

Co-signed.

Posted in wrong thread.

Sumimasen.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
God help Sagat if he pisses Ayane off. She won't be playing nice then. She will go for the kill using her blade.

Uh...this match is strictly hand-to-hand. And don't you think Sagat has experience fighting agile opponents?

Well you just added the hand to hand stipulation, so you'll have to allow us to adjust our assessments.

In strictly hand to hand, Ayane will be hard pressed to pull wins. She'd be fighting pretty much handicapped on someone she'd need a full arsenal on. Sagat should take the majority.

Although, I guess she could drag the fight to deep waters and hope he drowns and gets eaten by a shark while she teleports away.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well you just added the hand to hand stipulation, so you'll have to allow us to adjust our assessments.

In strictly hand to hand, Ayane will be hard pressed to pull wins. She'd be fighting pretty much handicapped on someone she'd need a full arsenal on. Sagat should take the majority.

Although, I guess she could drag the fight to deep waters and hope he drowns and gets eaten by a shark while she could teleports away.

Unless I said otherwise in the first post, all matches are hand-to-hand. No weapons.

Wait. Are only weapons banned? I was assuming ninpo was out too.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Wait. Are only weapons banned? I was assuming ninpo was out too.

If Ayane uses it in-game, then yes it's allowed. Never assume.

Quoting Penn from Under Siege 2, "Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups."

Weapons or no weapons she still loses. She has no real way of supressing a rush down from sagat except by teleporting. She cannot rush down sagat because he would kill her, and she really doesn't have the offense or defense to hang with him. Sure she's faster than him, but Sagat is not slow. The only real offense she has are grapples, and she has to risk getting close for that. Furthermore, if speed and teleportation are her only form of salvation then she's ****ed.

Before anyone misinterprets my post concerning the fight, I'd like to clear up some things.

Firstly, that strategy is about the only way Ayane could take any wins. I only mentioned it to say she might net a few victories if she fights like that and to her fullest. A offensive rushdown wouldn't be in her best interest.

Secondly, I do believe Sagat will beat her more times than not. He can afford to slip up more than she can.

Lastly, it still won't just be a walk in the park for Sagat. Hayate is the walk in the part.

P.S. I still think Dan might show up though.

Originally posted by Snafu the Great
Uh...this match is strictly hand-to-hand. And don't you think Sagat has experience fighting agile opponents?

Well duh I know it's hand to hand. I was just commenting that a pissed Ayane could be dangerous. That is why I said she would stop fighting clean and it would become something different. Something for another thread.

So what is Sagat's experience fighting agile opponents? Not that it really matters.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Weapons or no weapons she still loses. She has no real way of supressing a rush down from sagat except by teleporting. She cannot rush down sagat because he would kill her, and she really doesn't have the offense or defense to hang with him. Sure she's faster than him, but Sagat is not slow. The only real offense she has are grapples, and she has to risk getting close for that. Furthermore, if speed and teleportation are her only form of salvation then she's ****ed.

Except she can easily grab one of his kicks and throw him several feet into the air. Speed and Teleportation are not her only way of winning, but I won't be convincing you, or anyone else. So to each their own.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Before anyone misinterprets my post concerning the fight, I'd like to clear up some things.

Firstly, that strategy is about the only way Ayane could take any wins. I only mentioned it to say she might net a few victories if she fights like that and to her fullest. A offensive rushdown wouldn't be in her best interest.

Secondly, I do believe Sagat will beat her more times than not. He can afford to slip up more than she can.

Lastly, it still won't just be a walk in the park for Sagat. Hayate is the walk in the part.

P.S. I still think Dan might show up though.

I do believe Sagat takes it 6-7/10. All he needs is for Ayane to screw up.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Except she can easily grab one of his kicks and throw him several feet into the air. Speed and Teleportation are not her only way of winning, but I won't be convincing you, or anyone else. So to each their own.

If she tries to grab his kicks, she'll get her ribs broken.

Not a fact.

That's like anyone else saying if he tries to block her kick he'll get his arm broken.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Not a fact.

Never claimed it was, but there's nothing supporting the belief that ayane can counter sagats kick just because she does it in-game.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
That's like anyone else saying if he tries to block her kick he'll get his arm broken.
When has Ayane displayed the physical ability to break Sagats arm with a kick even if he blocks?

Nothing states she can't either.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Nothing states she can't either.

That a fallacy, either she demonstrates or has implications that say she can or she cannot.

First off when has Sagat done that before in his life. Second if Sagat's able to break someone else's ribs when his leg is grabbed he can do that to Ayane as well? Not saying you're implying that just asking.

And I still don't see how someone who killed Omega would not straight f*** up Sagat.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
Ayane, easily. I'm sorry, but why do you overrate DOA so much if it is not even the same league as Tekken or SF or MK???

That comment doesn't even dignify a response from me to be honest.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
That comment doesn't even dignify a response from me to be honest. Well, it is obvious that you always take side with any DOA char when ever there is a VS. thread that has a DOA fighter in it.

It's obvious you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
It's obvious you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Well, I am just speaking of what I am observing. If I am wrong, pardon me.

Anyways, I think Ayane has no chance of defeating the god of muay thai. He is much more stronger and yes, I understand that ayane has such incredible speed but I doubt that would be a disadvantage to Sagat as long as he has such projectile ATTACKS that he would connect. His attacks are much more stronger and with tiger blasts and tiger uppercuts, he would sabotage ayane any day.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
First off when has Sagat done that before in his life. Second if Sagat's able to break someone else's ribs when his leg is grabbed he can do that to Ayane as well? Not saying you're implying that just asking.
When he put Adon in the hospital or killed Go Hibiki. Hell, the damage from his tiger shhot feels like getting mauled by a tiger.
Originally posted by Guilty Gear

And I still don't see how someone who killed Omega would not straight f*** up Sagat.
Omega has nothing to do with this fight, screw him.

Dosen't Ayane know Omega's weakness?

Easy fight, but I agree, don't put him in this fight.

Originally posted by JacopeX
Dosen't Ayane know Omega's weakness?

Easy fight, but I agree, don't put him in this fight.

Ayane is Genra's adopted daughter, and that fimilarity gives her an advantage.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
When has Ayane displayed the physical ability to break Sagats arm with a kick even if he blocks?
She does have considerable leg strength. Falling from skyscrapers, scaling canyons by leaping from side to side, etc. I'm not saying she'll break his arm, but she isn't weak.
Originally posted by JacopeX
I'm sorry, but why do you overrate DOA so much if it is not even the same league as Tekken or SF or MK???
ermm

Originally posted by JacopeX
Dosen't Ayane know Omega's weakness?

Easy fight, but I agree, don't put him in this fight.

How exactly did she know Omega's weakness?

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
First off when has Sagat done that before in his life. Second if Sagat's able to break someone else's ribs when his leg is grabbed he can do that to Ayane as well? Not saying you're implying that just asking.

And I still don't see how someone who killed Omega would not straight f*** up Sagat.

Sad thing is A>B>C does not prove anything.

Originally posted by JacopeX
I'm sorry, but why do you overrate DOA so much if it is not even the same league as Tekken or SF or MK???

I do admit he is over rating Ayane, but saying SF > DOA is not really that effective either.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
How exactly did she know Omega's weakness?

Because omega's her father.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Because omega's her father.

What is Genra's weakness?

I would like to know this myself.

Should we ask Ayane? She knows apparently.

I just want to say that Sagat is not Slow, in fact he's one of the fastest SFs despite his size. I just though I'd get that across because the DOA fans are making sagat seem like a sloth or something.

Originally posted by Lazy MFer
I just want to say that Sagat is not Slow, in fact he's one of the fastest SFs despite his size. I just though I'd get that across because the DOA fans are making sagat seem like a sloth or something.

No we are not. We simply stated combat speed goes to her. I could whine and complain about SF fans making Ayane seem like a pushover, but I don't. Perception can be deceiving.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
What is Genra's weakness? Ayane

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Ayane

dur

What a weakness. Will you now claim Ayane Plot Deviced her way to victory in DOA3?