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blood lust on.

Originally posted by hush
blood lust on.

brb wins

Sorry but gotta go with Supes by a very slight edge.

Originally posted by Entity
Sorry but gotta go with Supes by a very slight edge.

Entity voting FOR superman?

Cannot compute...

Mr Noble 4 the win

Superman

Superman.

superman.

Originally posted by llagrok
Entity voting FOR superman?

Cannot compute... Tell me about it. I almost didn't enter this thread at all but then I thought it would be almost if not just as bad to completely avoid threads my boys don't win as it would to walk in claiming he'd win against logic.

Anytime I gotta give Supes a close win I think I die a little inside.

Superman.

Beta Ray Bill 7/10

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
Beta Ray Bill 7/10 no way. not say sound silly but hes superman

beta ray 7/10

Originally posted by carver9
beta ray 7/10 dont underestimate the man of steel. he wins the majority

Ya sure...........Bill is a majorly powerful badass. Just the way he was destroying planets in Stormbreaker, MAN. He's Superman with a kickass hammer and with major experience in H2H fighting.

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
Ya sure...........Bill is a majorly powerful badass. Just the way he was destroying planets in Stormbreaker, MAN. He's Superman with a kickass hammer and with major experience in H2H fighting. yeah like superman has no impressive moments.

I know he does, he's like the King of impressive feats. But still I'm pretty sure Beta Ray Bill will win. If u prove me otherwise though I will agree but Bill's the man.

.............or horse

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
I know he does, he's like the King of impressive feats. But still I'm pretty sure Beta Ray Bill will win. If u prove me otherwise though I will agree but Bill's the man. listen i hate superman more than most. but he has done so many impressive things. i dont see beta ray bill beating darkseid and the way superman did it was awesome. he crushed him one on one in a duel. i dont see btr beating ds. supes is to damn much.

BRB

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
.............or horse horseman

Originally posted by quanchi112
yeah like superman has no impressive moments.

Show me superman standing on top of a planet destroying it with his fist. Show me superman destroying any types of planets with his fist.

Never happened but it has happened on numerous of occasions with br.

Originally posted by quanchi112
horseman

Ya he's definitely the Magical Alien Horseman.....man

Originally posted by carver9
Show me superman standing on top of a planet destroying it with his fist. Show me superman destroying any types of planets with his fist.

Never happened but it has happened on numerous of occasions with br. superman is of such vital importance and has beaten way tougher opponents that brb has ever faced. sorry but brb goes down here, supes for the win.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Superman.

Gotta go with Clark on this one for the majority.

Has Superman ever destroyed a planet with his fist, though??

He is often said to "speedblitz people with planet-destroying punches.

Can he easily destroy a planet with a few punches?

The most famous example has been Superman 1 shotting a moon.
Others have been when he fought Zod and the planet was being destroyed from the shockwaves of their fight...or when frustrated and he was punching the moon and MM commented that if he were to keep doing that the moon would be destroyed. Him heating up the Earth with HV from across the solar system..etc.

You really won't see Supes destroying planets on panel. He's a good guy after all.

I'm seeing a lot of "he wins cause he's Superman" type logic. That can cut it in comics, but shouldn't hold water here.

I give BrB 6/10 over Superman, the same odds I would give Thor. Bill is very likely to win a battle against Supes, as Supes will not be giving it his best at the start. That's simply not his character and he hasn't been stated to be blood lusted. Nothing less than Clark's absolute best will put BrB away.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
I'm seeing a lot of "he wins cause he's Superman" type logic. That can cut it in comics, but shouldn't hold water here.

I give BrB 6/10 over Superman, the same odds I would give Thor. Bill is very likely to win a battle against Supes, as Supes will not be giving it his best at the start. That's simply not his character and he hasn't been stated to be blood lusted. Nothing less than Clark's absolute best will put BrB away.

I imagine both of them would hold back at the start, but Superman more than Bill. Getting some Stormbreaker up in a second to back up BRB's planety destroying skills.

3 4 5-6 7 8 9 From Stormbreaker 3

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
The most famous example has been Superman 1 shotting a moon.
Others have been when he fought Zod and the planet was being destroyed from the shockwaves of their fight...or when frustrated and he was punching the moon and MM commented that if he were to keep doing that the moon would be destroyed. Him heating up the Earth with HV from across the solar system..etc.

You really won't see Supes destroying planets on panel. He's a good guy after all.

So it's extrapolation??

He's never actually hit the ground of a planet a couple times and turned it to dust?

He basically drilled through a moon once, which i always see as a speedfeat before a strength feat.

And when he thought he was gonna lose Lois, he was gonna knock the moon out of orbit, not destroy it.

Well, that would've destroyed it indirectly, but not the way Avy is implying it.

The Russian Zod vs Superman fight is the closest example to planet busting power he has.

As for this fight, KMC rules equal Superman wins.

Going by in comic?

Superman wins the second round, after being koed by a hotblooded Bill.

Which KMC rule allows SUperman to win?

Originally posted by UniOmni
Going by in comic?

Superman wins the second round, after being koed by a hotblooded Bill.

Because in a comic Superman can beat BRB even while unconscious

Nope.

After he loses the second round and comes to, Jimmy asks if the big guy is alright, Superman says he'll manage and take Bill down by separating him from the hammer for a second and getting in a major haymaker.

That's how he wins in comic.

KMC rules are basically making it powerset vs powerset.

If Superman didn't have the combat speed that he does, Bill would get the clear majority from me.

Bills range and level of power<Superman dropping him within seconds with a speedblitz.

Originally posted by UniOmni
He basically drilled through a moon once, which i always see as a speedfeat before a strength feat.

Except he never drilled, it was a 1 shot feat busting through it fists first.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And when he thought he was gonna lose Lois, he was gonna knock the moon out of orbit, not destroy it.

Well, that would've destroyed it indirectly, but not the way Avy is implying it.

He wasn't trying to destroy the moon, but the fact that the hits were strong enough to have sent it out of orbit shows that he has the strength to break it apart the same way.

Originally posted by UniOmni
The Russian Zod vs Superman fight is the closest example to planet busting power he has.

It happened in the Darkseid fight as well, but they didn't narrate it the same way.


Originally posted by UniOmni
As for this fight, KMC rules equal Superman wins.

Going by in comic?

Superman wins the second round, after being koed by a hotblooded Bill.

In a comic I doubt he would be Ko'd...he usually let's himself take some powerful hits breaking up his cape...and then comes back up to win after knowing the opponents power level.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Except he never drilled, it was a 1 shot feat busting through it fists first.



He wasn't trying to destroy the moon, but the fact that the hits were strong enough to have sent it out of orbit shows that he has the strength to break it apart the same way.



It happened in the Darkseid fight as well, but they didn't narrate it the same way.




In a comic I doubt he would be Ko'd...he usually let's himself take some powerful hits breaking up his cape...and then comes back up to win after knowing the opponents power level.

Avy, it's not planet busting strength if he flies through a planet and basically tackles his way through.

He charged through a moon.

That is not proof of planet busting strength, and it's a reach to try to pass it off as such.

And if that's the case, then Herc and Thor are capable of destroying earth, via their armwrestling which threatened to do the same.

I wouldn't use that as proof of planet busting strength, and i wouldn't recommend you do so either.

Superman is still the most consistently strong top tier without using amplifying feats needlessly.

Originally posted by UniOmni
...........Superman dropping him within seconds with a speedblitz.

...will always be BRB's problem. Same with Thor's.

In my one year of reading the Superman backlog from 94-2006, i can't recall a speedblitz actually dropping any character of note that wasn't in a team setting.

Can anyone post scans, or give me issues and recaps?

Just think it's kinda silly to weigh on the speedblitz argument, if it hasn't been used to decisively end fights.

No one has to, Omni. First, many of us know he is capable of flying near light speed. Second, KMC rules state that when a battle takes place a character is fighting to the utmost of his abilities and can use any or skill sets to the best of that character's abilities.

End result: This spells doom for BRB.

Originally posted by BobbyD
No one has to, Omni. First, many of us know he is capable of flying near light speed. Second, KMC rules state that when a battle takes place a character is fighting to the utmost of his abilities and can use any or skill sets to the best of that character's abilities.

End result: This spells doom for BRB.

Matter Manipulation: This lets you make your enemies explode from the inside.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Going by in comic?

Superman wins the second round, after being koed by a hotblooded Bill.
Funny thing is Bill would likely get dropped even harder in a comic than he would here, likely in an even more embarrassing way than Thor.

Since Bill is someone he's never seen before, in an effort to build up credibility and longevity, he has to drop him first.

Has to.

Once one drop is had, he is free to be turned out at will.

But that one drop must happen or he fails bigtime as a credible villain/rival.

Originally posted by Validus
Funny thing is Bill would likely get dropped even harder in a comic than he would here, likely in an even more embarrassing way than Thor.

Originally posted by BobbyD
No one has to, Omni. First, many of us know he is capable of flying near light speed. Second, KMC rules state that when a battle takes place a character is fighting to the utmost of his abilities and can use any or skill sets to the best of that character's abilities.

End result: This spells doom for BRB.

I think his point is that if Superman has never done it then it could be said to be outside his skills to do it.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Since Bill is someone he's never seen before, in an effort to build up credibility and longevity, he has to drop him first.

Has to.

Once one drop is had, he is free to be turned out at will.

But that one drop must happen or he fails bigtime as a credible villain/rival.
Who made up that rule?

Getting one win and then being flattened from then on is worse than just losing right away IMO. All that would show is the one win was just a fluke.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Avy, it's not planet busting strength if he flies through a planet and basically tackles his way through.

He charged through a moon.

That is not proof of planet busting strength, and it's a reach to try to pass it off as such.

And if that's the case, then Herc and Thor are capable of destroying earth, via their armwrestling which threatened to do the same.

I wouldn't use that as proof of planet busting strength, and i wouldn't recommend you do so either.

Superman is still the most consistently strong top tier without using amplifying feats needlessly.

So you think Superman's flight is more powerful than his strength? Seriously, you're nitpicking. Those were just simple examples showing what the guy is capable of.

Originally posted by Validus
Funny thing is Bill would likely get dropped even harder in a comic than he would here, likely in an even more embarrassing way than Thor.

Cough... a moon is not a planet.
Plus, he it was a durability feat, not a strength feat.

Originally posted by Validus
Who made up that rule?

Getting one win and then being flattened from then on is worse than just losing right away IMO. All that would show is the one win was just a fluke.

I'm coming at this from the stance of Billy Boy being a new rival/foe for Superman in a comic, with the intent to be used again later down the road.

If in his initial showing he's flatout embarassed, it's killing the lifeline and longevity of his character.

Look at Preus..

He came on the scene, dominated Superman and was taken out by Superman + help.

Next showing, he's dropped by an aged, poisoned Superman.

Austen is an incredibly inept writer, but at least Preus got that good initial showing under his belt.

Look at Russian Zod - Broke Supermans jaw, stalemated him in OWAW, and then was being stalemated by Superman under a Red sun, which powers Zod and weakens Superman.

Stupid move to have all the cards in his corner and still somehow lose but better treatment than Preus.

If Bill was meant to have any kind of use as a rival/villain in a Superman book, he must get that initial showing where he's shown to be >=Superman.

After that showing, DC would probably turn him out at the end of a 5.5 inch kryptoian dikk, but their schtick seems to be tossing aside good villains to the S shield.

But even they would give him that great initial showing.

Originally posted by Tyrant
Cough... a moon is not a planet.
Plus, he it was a durability feat, not a strength feat. What about when he was fighting Black Adam, and its noted that his punch would have knocked a moon in half?
That one would have been strength, though he pulled the punch when Black Adam turned out.
Oh, and nothing there suggested that Superman was maxing it out, he just said that he didn't have to be as careful with Adam as he normally does against others.

Originally posted by Tyrant
Cough... a moon is not a planet.
Plus, he it was a durability feat, not a strength feat.

MadSci Network: Astronomy
Query:
Re: What is the difference between A moon and A planet?
Date: Tue Jun 1 13:40:53 1999
Posted By: Dan Berger, MadSci Admin
Area of science: Astronomy
ID: 928096867.As Message:

Your question is like asking, "If a triangle were a square, could it have four sides?"

The difference between a moon and a planet is entirely semantic. A planet orbits a star. A moon orbits a planet. That's pretty much it.

The composition of moons and planets has far more to do with their position in the solar system (bodies closer to the sun have more rock and less ice) than with what they orbit.

Consider the planet Mercury. Mercury is smaller than the moons Ganymede (Jupiter) and Titan (Saturn). Nevertheless, Mercury orbits the Sun; Ganymede and Titan orbit planets.

Consider Pluto. Pluto is smaller than no less than seven of the moons in our solar system, including Neptune's Triton, which is thought to be very similar to Pluto and even to have once been a planet.

(It's true that there was recently an abortive move to reclassify Pluto as a Kuiper-belt object -- that is, not-a-planet in the same way that the asteroid Ceres is not considered a planet. But that failed, partly, I suspect, because Clyde Tombaugh is still alive and well-liked.)

For more on the solar system, see The Nine Planets.
Dan Berger
MadSci Administrator

Originally posted by UniOmni
I'm coming at this from the stance of Billy Boy being a new rival/foe for Superman in a comic, with the intent to be used again later down the road.

If in his initial showing he's flatout embarassed, it's killing the lifeline and longevity of his character.

Look at Preus..

He came on the scene, dominated Superman and was taken out by Superman + help.

Next showing, he's dropped by an aged, poisoned Superman.

Austen is an incredibly inept writer, but at least Preus got that good initial showing under his belt.

Look at Russian Zod - Broke Supermans jaw, stalemated him in OWAW, and then was being stalemated by Superman under a Red sun, which powers Zod and weakens Superman.

Stupid move to have all the cards in his corner and still somehow lose but better treatment than Preus.

If Bill was meant to have any kind of use as a rival/villain in a Superman book, he must get that initial showing where he's shown to be >=Superman.

After that showing, DC would probably turn him out at the end of a 5.5 inch kryptoian dikk, but their schtick seems to be tossing aside good villains to the S shield.

But even they would give him that great initial showing. So you give Bill one out of ten then? He hurts Superman badly, then Supes disposes of him in panel or two each subsequent time?

Either way, none of that is relivent here really, he's not a superman villain, and this is the forum, not a comic book. If it were a comic book, Flash and Martian Manhunter would always fall first, and Batman can kick top tier/cosmic ass.

Though I have to ask, since you said he'd KO him...Who was the last character you remember knocking Superman completely unconscious in direct impartial confrontation?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
MadSci Network: Astronomy
Query:
Re: What is the difference between A moon and A planet?
Date: Tue Jun 1 13:40:53 1999
Posted By: Dan Berger, MadSci Admin
Area of science: Astronomy
ID: 928096867.As Message:

Your question is like asking, "If a triangle were a square, could it have four sides?"

The difference between a moon and a planet is entirely semantic. A planet orbits a star. A moon orbits a planet. That's pretty much it.

The composition of moons and planets has far more to do with their position in the solar system (bodies closer to the sun have more rock and less ice) than with what they orbit.

Consider the planet Mercury. Mercury is smaller than the moons Ganymede (Jupiter) and Titan (Saturn). Nevertheless, Mercury orbits the Sun; Ganymede and Titan orbit planets.

Consider Pluto. Pluto is smaller than no less than seven of the moons in our solar system, including Neptune's Triton, which is thought to be very similar to Pluto and even to have once been a planet.

(It's true that there was recently an abortive move to reclassify Pluto as a Kuiper-belt object -- that is, not-a-planet in the same way that the asteroid Ceres is not considered a planet. But that failed, partly, I suspect, because Clyde Tombaugh is still alive and well-liked.)

For more on the solar system, see The Nine Planets.
Dan Berger
MadSci Administrator

And yet all he destroyed was a moon of Saturn. All of which are far smaller than most planets.

The implication of being able to destroy a planet is that the planet is roughly the size of earth.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So you think Superman's flight is more powerful than his strength? Seriously, you're nitpicking. Those were just simple examples showing what the guy is capable of.





You're reaching man if you're trying to pass off that feat as an example of planet busting strength.

Superman does have moon busting capabilities, when he can focus his speed and durability into a super tackle, which is exactly what he did in that comic.

To pass that off as proof that he can punch apart a planet is a whole 'nother ball game tho.

And to Jun, we take characters words as law now?

Until he throws that punch that splits a moon in half, he hasn't the power, despite what he said to the contrary.

Superman is still the most consistently strong top tier in comics.

I don't see the need to reach at feats.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I'm coming at this from the stance of Billy Boy being a new rival/foe for Superman in a comic, with the intent to be used again later down the road.

If in his initial showing he's flatout embarassed, it's killing the lifeline and longevity of his character.

Look at Preus..

He came on the scene, dominated Superman and was taken out by Superman + help.

Next showing, he's dropped by an aged, poisoned Superman.

Austen is an incredibly inept writer, but at least Preus got that good initial showing under his belt.

Look at Russian Zod - Broke Supermans jaw, stalemated him in OWAW, and then was being stalemated by Superman under a Red sun, which powers Zod and weakens Superman.

Stupid move to have all the cards in his corner and still somehow lose but better treatment than Preus.

If Bill was meant to have any kind of use as a rival/villain in a Superman book, he must get that initial showing where he's shown to be >=Superman.

After that showing, DC would probably turn him out at the end of a 5.5 inch kryptoian dikk, but their schtick seems to be tossing aside good villains to the S shield.

But even they would give him that great initial showing.
I'm not even sure why you're bothering to argue if you're only giving Bill 1/10. You might actually be the biggest Superman supporter in this thread.

Originally posted by Juntai
What about when he was fighting Black Adam, and its noted that his punch would have knocked a moon in half?
That one would have been strength, though he pulled the punch when Black Adam turned out.
Oh, and nothing there suggested that Superman was maxing it out, he just said that he didn't have to be as careful with Adam as he normally does against others. I was just talking about the one time he actually did it, and it's taken as though he punched right through it, when he actually flew through it.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
MadSci Network: Astronomy
Query:
Re: What is the difference between A moon and A planet?
Date: Tue Jun 1 13:40:53 1999
Posted By: Dan Berger, MadSci Admin
Area of science: Astronomy
ID: 928096867.As Message:

Your question is like asking, "If a triangle were a square, could it have four sides?"

The difference between a moon and a planet is entirely semantic. A planet orbits a star. A moon orbits a planet. That's pretty much it.

The composition of moons and planets has far more to do with their position in the solar system (bodies closer to the sun have more rock and less ice) than with what they orbit.

Consider the planet Mercury. Mercury is smaller than the moons Ganymede (Jupiter) and Titan (Saturn). Nevertheless, Mercury orbits the Sun; Ganymede and Titan orbit planets.

Consider Pluto. Pluto is smaller than no less than seven of the moons in our solar system, including Neptune's Triton, which is thought to be very similar to Pluto and even to have once been a planet.

(It's true that there was recently an abortive move to reclassify Pluto as a Kuiper-belt object -- that is, not-a-planet in the same way that the asteroid Ceres is not considered a planet. But that failed, partly, I suspect, because Clyde Tombaugh is still alive and well-liked.)

For more on the solar system, see The Nine Planets.
Dan Berger
MadSci Administrator Wait, isn't Pluto believed to be a moon from Neptune?

Plus, if you're implying that one of Saturn's moon, is comparable to average planets...

Originally posted by UniOmni
You're reaching man if you're trying to pass off that feat as an example of planet busting strength.

Superman does have moon busting capabilities, when he can focus his speed and durability into a super tackle, which is exactly what he did in that comic.

To pass that off as proof that he can punch apart a planet is a whole 'nother ball game tho.

And to Jun, we take characters words as law now?

Until he throws that punch that splits a moon in half, he hasn't the power, despite what he said to the contrary.

Superman is still the most consistently strong top tier in comics.

I don't see the need to reach at feats. Not all words are to be taken as law, but I'm fairly sure Superman knows how strong he is. If we didn't take at least some dialog into consideration, not many feats in all of comics have any base at all. We've seen him smash though a moon in 2000, then 6 years later, we hear him say his punches can do it. I don't see how that's reaching at all.

Originally posted by Validus
I'm not even sure why you're bothering to argue if you're only giving Bill 1/10. You might actually be the biggest Superman supporter in this thread. I made a similar note a few posts up. lol.

Originally posted by Juntai
So you give Bill one out of ten then? He hurts Superman badly, then Supes disposes of him in panel or two each subsequent time?

Either way, none of that is relivent here really, he's not a superman villain, and this is the forum, not a comic book. If it were a comic book, Flash and Martian Manhunter would always fall first, and Batman can kick top tier/cosmic ass.

Though I have to ask, since you said he'd KO him...Who was the last character you remember knocking Superman completely unconscious in direct impartial confrontation?

The last guy who got that KO was likely Khyber, or the big Aryan looking guy from the Next miniseries.

Both new villains/rivals who got that good showing.

And i already admitted that in KMCs laughable rulebook, Superman gets the win, since it's cbrlite here.

In comic presentation?

Bill goes for the throat way before the thought crosses Superman's mind.

Originally posted by Validus
I'm not even sure why you're bothering to argue if you're only giving Bill 1/10. You might actually be the biggest Superman supporter in this thread.

His argument is based off how he thinks an encounter between them in a comic would play out. Because he's psychic and can actually make that judgement accurately.

Originally posted by UniOmni
You're reaching man if you're trying to pass off that feat as an example of planet busting strength.

Superman does have moon busting capabilities, when he can focus his speed and durability into a super tackle, which is exactly what he did in that comic.

To pass that off as proof that he can punch apart a planet is a whole 'nother ball game tho.

And to Jun, we take characters words as law now?

Until he throws that punch that splits a moon in half, he hasn't the power, despite what he said to the contrary.

Superman is still the most consistently strong top tier in comics.

I don't see the need to reach at feats.

Reaching is what you're trying to pull in this thread. Your whole "comic scenario" is ludicrous.

The moon got busted in 1 shot. Run at full speed into a city block full of jell-o and see if you can 1 shot it.

And dude, if you like CBR that much and dislike this sites rules...then stay over there.

Originally posted by Validus
I'm not even sure why you're bothering to argue if you're only giving Bill 1/10. You might actually be the biggest Superman supporter in this thread.

KMC Superman vs KMC Bill = KMC Superman 10/10.

A few years ago, comic Bill vs Comic Superman would've likely been a split down the middle.
But a tangible push has been behind Superman since about '99, and when pushing from behind, people in front tend to get knocked to the wayside. See Darkseid, Despero, and others.

93-98 Bill vs Superman would've been great.

Nowadays, the alien from a dead world full of aliens like him is the greatest in his neck of the universe, which makes you see how smart DC was to destroy said planet full of aliens like him.

Busiek/Johns would probably handle a new character in the vein of a godling like Bill vs Superman scenario very nicely, whereas others would mangle it beyond repair.

I don't think Bill would only get 1/10 in comics.

Once he got that good initial showing, after a few beatings from braindead writers, he'd probably get a rebirth from a good one, only to get a few more beatings/humiliations. Rinse and repeat.

Comics? Superman 7/10

Originally posted by Tyrant
I was just talking about the one time he actually did it, and it's taken as though he punched right through it, when he actually flew through it.

Wait, isn't Pluto believed to be a moon from Neptune?

Plus, if you're implying that one of Saturn's moon, is comparable to average planets...

Nice try at backpedalling.

Originally posted by Tyrant
Cough... a moon is not a planet.
Plus, he it was a durability feat, not a strength feat.

The difference between a moon and a planet is entirely semantic. A planet orbits a star. A moon orbits a planet. That's pretty much it.

Originally posted by UniOmni
KMC Superman vs KMC Bill = KMC Superman 10/10.

A few years ago, comic Bill vs Comic Superman would've likely been a split down the middle.
But a tangible push has been behind Superman since about '99, and when pushing from behind, people in front tend to get knocked to the wayside. See Darkseid, Despero, and others.

93-98 Bill vs Superman would've been great.

Nowadays, the alien from a dead world full of aliens like him is the greatest in his neck of the universe, which makes you see how smart DC was to destroy said planet full of aliens like him.

Busiek/Johns would probably handle a new character in the vein of a godling like Bill vs Superman scenario very nicely, whereas others would mangle it beyond repair.

I don't think Bill would only get 1/10 in comics.

Once he got that good initial showing, after a few beatings from braindead writers, he'd probably get a rebirth from a good one, only to get a few more beatings/humiliations. Rinse and repeat.

Comics? Superman 7/10

How do you know this? How can you be sure that Bill wouldn't defeat him every time because Stormbreaker happens to emit radiation that severely weakens Superman?

Originally posted by UniOmni
KMC Superman vs KMC Bill = KMC Superman 10/10.

A few years ago, comic Bill vs Comic Superman would've likely been a split down the middle.
But a tangible push has been behind Superman since about '99, and when pushing from behind, people in front tend to get knocked to the wayside. See Darkseid, Despero, and others.

93-98 Bill vs Superman would've been great.

Nowadays, the alien from a dead world full of aliens like him is the greatest in his neck of the universe, which makes you see how smart DC was to destroy said planet full of aliens like him.

Busiek/Johns would probably handle a new character in the vein of a godling like Bill vs Superman scenario very nicely, whereas others would mangle it beyond repair.

I don't think Bill would only get 1/10 in comics.

Once he got that good initial showing, after a few beatings from braindead writers, he'd probably get a rebirth from a good one, only to get a few more beatings/humiliations. Rinse and repeat.

Comics? Superman 7/10
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/superdante/jimlook.gif

Originally posted by UniOmni
The last guy who got that KO was likely Khyber, or the big Aryan looking guy from the Next miniseries.

Both new villains/rivals who got that good showing.

And i already admitted that in KMCs laughable rulebook, Superman gets the win, since it's cbrlite here.

In comic presentation?

Bill goes for the throat way before the thought crosses Superman's mind. Khyber? Funny you should mention that...A weakend Superman proved stronger than Khyber, actually.

Superman dominated him for a time in strength, and who Superman flat out defeated in a previous encounter. Khyber was strong enough to take a power depleted Superman and throw him so hard into the Earth's core that:

"The crust cracks like an egg, a gash thousands of miles long. And gravitic forces slam it closed almost instantly.

But the molten rock below the crust shudders in underground tsunamis of superheated lava.

And the Earth convulses. Tectonic plates crack. Continents ripple like a scarf in the wind. Billions dies in the global earthquakes that follow. But they too are just beginning.

Tidal waves scour coastal lands -- and even more inland regions -- clean of life, taking the lives of millions more. And it still doesn't end. That initial tear in the planetary crust sens unimaginable tons of rock, earth and water -- all vaporized by heat and impact -- into the upper air.

The thousands of volcanoes created thereafter continue the process. What follows, you call 'nuclear winter.' Permanent, heavy cloud cover, blocking the Sun. Cyclonic winds. Storms that make your Biblical flood seem insignificant."

Think about that for a minute.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
How do you know this? How can you be sure that Bill wouldn't defeat him every time because Stormbreaker happens to emit radiation that severely weakens Superman?

Because Superman has a major push behind him, and he's survived magic before.

Plus, i get the feeling you dislike me as a poster, so why respond to me?

And to Avy-

I don't like Cbr.

I made the reference to CBR, because that's where this boards rules come from.

We don't debate characters here, we debate powersets. Which is a pissing contest, basically.


To Vally -

Originally posted by UniOmni
We don't debate characters here, we debate powersets. Which is a pissing contest, basically.
If thats true then why do none of the other characters with Superman's powerset get the same respect he does?

Originally posted by UniOmni
Because Superman has a major push behind him, and he's survived magic before.

This radiation bypasses that. Bill wins every time.

Now what?

Originally posted by UniOmni
Plus, i get the feeling you dislike me as a poster, so why respond to me?

Nah, I just like that you claim the rules here are ridiculous while pushing an form of match up that requires one to have psychic powers.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Nice try at backpedalling.



The difference between a moon and a planet is entirely semantic. A planet orbits a star. A moon orbits a planet. That's pretty much it. So, moons are usually comparable to planets in size?

Plus, the moon orbiting a planet kind of says it all, doesn't it?

Also, what I meant by that was, that planets are usually bigger than moons.

And especially the one Superman went through.

Originally posted by Validus
If thats true then why do none of the other characters with Superman's powerset get the same respect he does?

I made a blunder in choosing my words.

I should've said we debate feats, which is basically a pissing contest.

Zod doesn't have the feats of Superman, so he doesn't get the leighway Superman does.

And SC, i only push that form of debate, because it makes sense.

Superman vs Thanos = Speedblitz.
Superman vs Hulk = Speedblitz.
Superman vs Darkseid = Speedblitz.

Superman vs Nate Grey = Speedblitz?
Superman vs Franklin Richards = Speedblitz? Superman speedblitzes an eight year old child?

Really?

That's why KMC rules(which are cut and pasted from CBR) are so silly.

You take the character out of the debate, and we're left with people posting "Superman drops a hundred planest busting punches to the towheaded dome of an eight year old child ftw".

Shit's ridiculous.

Real debate = Superman sees reality warping in conjunction with childs emotions, so he taps him in the forehead to drop him.

Cue the debating of shields and punches then, but at least keep the characters in the debate.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I made a blunder in choosing my words.

I should've said we debate feats, which is basically a pissing contest.

Zod doesn't have the feats of Superman, so he doesn't get the leighway Superman does.
That doesn't work either because Green Lantern isn't unbeatable here. Not unless you're talking to me.

And I don't really think pretending to know how various writers would portray a Superman/Beta Ray Bill clash makes an assload of sense either.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And SC, i only push that form of debate, because it makes sense.

Except when you somehow predict an entire run of comics and somehow use that to draw a conclusion.

Thats just really f*cking stupid.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Superman vs Thanos = Speedblitz.
Superman vs Hulk = Speedblitz.
Superman vs Darkseid = Speedblitz.
Superman vs Nate Grey = Speedblitz?
Superman vs Franklin Richards = Speedblitz? Superman speedblitzes an eight year old child?

Really?

That's why KMC rules(which are cut and pasted from CBR) are so silly.

You take the character out of the debate, and we're left with people posting "Superman drops a hundred planest busting punches to the towheaded dome of an eight year old child ftw".

Shit's ridiculous.

Real debate = Superman sees reality warping in conjunction with childs emotions, so he taps him in the forehead to drop him.

Cue the debating of shields and punches then, but at least keep the characters in the debate.

Execpt that if you actually look at the forums as a whole rather than just the poster you want to look at you'll see that doesn't always happen. You might also note that people frequently do mention character personalities and how they would react (sometimes in the form of giving multiple outcomes based on how the character fights)

Against Richards it would still be a blitz because he'd have to do it before Franklin could react.

Unless . . . wait . . . I know! DC loves Superman so much that reality warping would have no effect on him the second time! Now that is sane rational debating.

Originally posted by Validus
That doesn't work either because Green Lantern isn't unbeatable here. Not unless you're talking to me.

And I don't really think pretending to know how various writers would portray a Superman/Beta Ray Bill clash makes an assload of sense either.

And yet you predicted a page ago that Bill would likely be beaten in an even more humiliating manner than Thor?

I drew my conclusion from reading comics for this past year and a half.

Read enough comics, and the patterns become clear as day.

I don't think it's stupid to say how most comics would go, when most comics follow the same formula.

I'll admit i went to far when i go into the subsequent appearances and etc, but for the initial comic?

Par for the course.

The image below is in response to you saying i'm reaching by saying what would happen in comic.

Originally posted by UniOmni
The image below is in response to you saying i'm reaching by saying what would happen in comic.

Ya know what's so interesting about that? The pot isn't wrong in the slightest

Originally posted by UniOmni
And yet you predicted a page ago that Bill would likely be beaten in an even more humiliating manner than Thor?
Done so in mocking fashion.


Originally posted by UniOmni
I drew my conclusion from reading comics for this past year and a half.

Read enough comics, and the patterns become clear as day.

I don't think it's stupid to say how most comics would go, when most comics follow the same formula.
So I'm sure you accurately predicted that Superman would KO Thor while sitting on his ass?

And that a ninja would get the best of Dr. Strange.

And that Captain America would be shown KO'ing Hulk in 3 blows.

Yes, all that sounds rather predictable based on previous comics. This must be why whenever a new comic comes out that features Hero A Vs Hero B, various folks on message boards across the net are crying bullshit because the fight didn't go as expected.

It's not how you think writers would portray Beta Ray Bill Vs Superman but rather how you would portray Beta Ray Bill Vs Superman while attempting not to appear biased.

And yet i am?

And didn't you just say that Superman would have to blitz an 8 year old child?

Originally posted by Validus
Done so in mocking fashion.



So I'm sure you accurately predicted that Superman would KO Thor while sitting on his ass?

And that a ninja would get the best of Dr. Strange.

And that Captain America would be shown KO'ing Hulk in 3 blows.

Yes, all that sounds rather predictable based on previous comics. This must be why whenever a new comic comes out that features Hero A Vs Hero B, various folks on message boards across the net are crying bullshit because the fight didn't go as expected.

No, i didn't predict that since i wasn't reading comics at the time.

I just started reading comics again at the end of 2005, having last read one in 95.

But i could've told anyone that it'd either be a stalemate or a definite loss for Thor, with stalmate being the best he could hope for.

Characters occupying two very different positions in their companys overall scheme.

But i could've told you that if Strange joins a team of midlevelers and streets, he'd be significantly depowered to make the story work.

And i wouldn't have told you that Cap would beat the Hulk at his own game, but i would've told you that when two heroes team up, they always wins.

Not the stupid manner that Loeb wrote, but end of the day same results.

Nevertheless, this is all meaningless since my main point of contention was always that in a comic setting, Superman would get dropped first, only to take the second round.

I merely outlined a pretty standard new potential rival scenario, which happens in pretty much every form of entertainment media.

It shouldn't be this hard Vally.

Originally posted by UniOmni
No, i didn't predict that since i wasn't reading comics at the time.
It wouldn't have mattered. You wouldn't have predicted it anyway but it is amusing to sit here and see you act like a comic book Nostradamus.


Originally posted by UniOmni
But i could've told anyone that it'd either be a stalemate or a definite loss for Thor, with stalmate being the best he could hope for.
Anyone can predict wins and losses but I figured since you see the exact scenario in which Beta Ray Bill and Superman clash, you saw Superman sitting down and telling Thor about his various dials.

Originally posted by UniOmni
But i could've told you that if Strange joins a team of midlevelers and streets, he'd be significantly depowered to make the story work.
Martian Manhunter wasn't depowered when he worked with those low grade JLA teams in the early 90s.

The Sentry wasn't depowered for New Avengers.

Big Barda hasn't been depowered for Birds of Prey.

Ya know, more than a few people thought Strange would be the big gun needed for the inevitable clash the Mighty Avengers.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And i wouldn't have told you that Cap would beat the Hulk at his own game, but i would've told you that when two heroes team up, they always wins.

Not the stupid manner that Loeb wrote, but end of the day same results.
Spider-Man sitting down and watching Cap go to town on Hulk isn't exactly a team up.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Nevertheless, this is all meaningless since my main point of contention was always that in a comic setting, Superman would get dropped first, only to take the second round.

I merely outlined a pretty standard new potential rival scenario, which happens in pretty much every form of entertainment media.

It shouldn't be this hard Vally.
So I was right when I said this was how UniOmni would write Beta Ray Bill Vs Superman? I guess it wasn't hard.

w

http://i10.tinypic.com/4ziyfbc.png

I'm liek totally about to spice things up like a Mexican cook.

Beta 6/10.

Originally posted by Validus
http://i10.tinypic.com/4ziyfbc.png

I see your frustration and raise you........................