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I think that Ultimate Captain America is stronger. He made the Hulk bleed. He's definitely 40 pounds heavier than the original version. Of course, as we all know, strength isn't everything. Original version certainly keeps his cool better. Your opinions?

i dont know a damn thing about any ultimate character. and frankly ill always root for the original becuz i hate remakes in movies and now they are reamiking comic book characters. has the world ran out of new fun ideas? i back the original whether or not he wins this.

Originally posted by peregrinefalcon
I think that Ultimate Captain America is stronger. He made the Hulk bleed. He's definitely 40 pounds heavier than the original version. Of course, as we all know, strength isn't everything. Original version certainly keeps his cool better. Your opinions?

616 cap is more skilled. 616 cap FTW.

Originally posted by peregrinefalcon
I think that Ultimate Captain America is stronger. He made the Hulk bleed. He's definitely 40 pounds heavier than the original version. Of course, as we all know, strength isn't everything. Original version certainly keeps his cool better. Your opinions?

616 Steve FTW

Originally posted by quanchi112
i dont know a damn thing about any ultimate character. and frankly ill always root for the original becuz i hate remakes in movies and now they are reamiking comic book characters. has the world ran out of new fun ideas? i back the original whether or not he wins this. He is actually an awesome remake.

Its been done 616 Cap wins.

616 Cap wins. Faster, more skilled, insane shield skills.

Agreed.

616 Cap. He has better speedfeats and is generally portrayed more skilled, ignoring the fact that Ultimate Cap defeated Hulk H2H...

And 616 Caps shield would also mean a lot for his victory in this match.

616 Cap is more skilled and experienced

Ultimate Cap seems far more ruthless and aggressive.

I give 616 the edge because in a fight, his cool head and experience would allow him to exploit Ultimate's mistakes better.

But Ultimate cap uses guns!

Originally posted by JudgeXZXZ
ignoring the fact that Ultimate Cap defeated Hulk H2H...




Thats a myth he did not defeat him.

Bump.

Using guns is something special against 616 Cap? He has used guns as well in the past.

I dont think Ult Cap has had enough of a chance to show his H2H skills for that to be a factor. Hes beaten the crap out of a large number of folks while drugged and hung in against the Hulk for a bit, which I think says something. Also has anyone yet been able to get the better of him in H2H? 616 Cap has had like 40+ years of showings to draw on while Ult Cap has been a bit more limited for source material. On the other hand Ult Cap has been shown to be stronger and a lot more likely to cheat to win.
616 Cap = Peak Human, Ultimate Cap = meta human.
Im giving this one to the ultimate version.

I don't see how Ultimate Cap being metahuman can make him surpass the Cap who has several good showings against several metahumans.

If it were left at just physical prowess I'd agree, but Ult Cap hasnt been whooping on your standard street levelers either.

616 Cap has the edge on characters that are similar to U.Cap.

USAgent is was trained in military and is even stronger then U.Cap. And 616 Cap makes him look like a joke now a days.

Cap has had the upperhand on other similar characters like Protocide, the Anti Cap.

Plus 616 Cap has looked good also against Korvac, Thunderball, Wrecker, the 616 Hulk(who's superior to U.Hulk), Fenris, Giantman. Etc etc. Some of these have circumstances but so did U.Cap's fight with U.Hulk.

616 Cap just seems to have all the cards IMO. Even has strength feats that match U.Cap, despite U.Cap being ment to be stronger by the handbooks.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
616 Cap has the edge on characters that are similar to U.Cap.

USAgent is was trained in military and is even stronger then U.Cap. And 616 Cap makes him look like a joke now a days.

Cap has had the upperhand on other similar characters like Protocide, the Anti Cap.

Plus 616 Cap has looked good also against Korvac, Thunderball, Wrecker, the 616 Hulk(who's superior to U.Hulk), Fenris, Giantman. Etc etc. Some of these have circumstances but so did U.Cap's fight with U.Hulk.

616 Cap just seems to have all the cards IMO. Even has strength feats that match U.Cap, despite U.Cap being ment to be stronger by the handbooks. Bullcrap that USAgent is stronger then Ult. Cap. The guy has braced against trees, gone toe-to-toe with Ult. Hulk, lept several stories out of jets and survived a double-fist pounding by Ult. Abomination. Ult. Cap is so underrated on these forums that it makes me sick sometimes.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Bullcrap that USAgent is stronger then Ult. Cap. The guy has braced against trees,

Why couldnt US Agent do that?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

gone toe-to-toe with Ult. Hulk,

After dropping a tank on him and it could be argued that Ult Hulk is weaker than Savage Hulk, since I dont think dropping a tank on him would really do anything.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

lept several stories out of jets

...what exactly do you mean? Hasnt 616 Cap done similar stuff out of a helicopter?


Originally posted by OneDumbG0

and survived a double-fist pounding by Ult. Abomination. Ult. Cap is so underrated on these forums that it makes me sick sometimes.

Well since Ult Hulk might be weaker we could say the same possibly for Ult Abom.

616 Hulk got KOed by a truck or something.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Bullcrap that USAgent is stronger then Ult. Cap. The guy has braced against trees, gone toe-to-toe with Ult. Hulk, lept several stories out of jets and survived a double-fist pounding by Ult. Abomination. Ult. Cap is so underrated on these forums that it makes me sick sometimes.


Bullcrap more like you don't no anything about Agent. While U.Cap is curling 500 lbs for working out purposes Agent is doing 10 to 20 tons.

Tree's. Plural he only braced one tree. 616 Cap has a feat of bracing a falling sky scrapper to even denting a thick metal door. 616 Cap has gone toe to toe with Cosmic being Korvac does this make him stronger then Agent.......................No.

616 Cap has survived a beating from Namor and Ironman and high falls from helicopters.

Your logic of Agent underrates him and makes me sick sometimes.
While Agent works out with "this".
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3521/capamericav135822roughezi4.th.jpg

U.Cap works out with this.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2440/54050899vv7.th.jpg

Yeah he's so much stronger then USAgent........LOL

Sorry Go you just got owned....you kinda asked for it though.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Sorry Go you just got owned....you kinda asked for it though. You know an owning when you see it.

Its happened to you enough.

AJ go away.

Originally posted by Baloo
616 Hulk got KOed by a truck or something.


And find me a feat of U.Hulk grabbing energy with pure strength and deflecting a blast capable of destroying a universe. Or a punch that destroys a asteroid thats stated to be twice the size of the Earth. If your going with low feats. Let see you find high feats to match....

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
AJ go away. Shut the **** up Alf.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Bullcrap more like you don't no anything about Agent. While U.Cap is curling 500 lbs for working out purposes Agent is doing 10 to 20 tons.

Tree's. Plural he only braced one tree. 616 Cap has a feat of bracing a falling sky scrapper to even denting a thick metal door. 616 Cap has gone toe to toe with Cosmic being Korvac does this make him stronger then Agent.......................No.

616 Cap has survived a beating from Namor and Ironman and high falls from helicopters.

Your logic of Agent underrates him and makes me sick sometimes.
While Agent works out with "this".
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3521/capamericav135822roughezi4.th.jpg
U.Cap works out with this.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2440/54050899vv7.th.jpg

Yeah he's so much stronger then USAgent........LOL He braced a tree without a special force/momentum reducing shield in Ultimates v2 #5 (it's only pure adamantium). A tree of that width and height weighs tons upon tons. That was done with nothing but his strength. 616 Cap held up a skyscraper with his vibranium matrix shield, that wasn't all his strength. Try reading the comic you ninny. And nuts to your comparison of the two scans. If you read the scan from the Ultimates you'll notice that it's just a regular gym. How the hell are they going to have several ton weights in there for him to work out with anyway? He's working out there because it brings back memories to him.

Ult. Cap went toe-to-toe with not just Ult. Hulk but Herr Kleiser, a guy that was busting up an enraged Ult. Hulk. He jumped several stories straight up from a crashing jet. He free fell into water from 600 feet without pause in Ultimates v2 #1. Whereas USAgent got f'ed up when he fell several stories when he was hypnotized by Purple Man in Civil War: Choosing Sides. Now you tell me whether USAgent can survive this, get up in one panel and go on to fight:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He braced a tree without a special force/momentum reducing shield in Ultimates v2 #5 (it's only pure adamantium). A tree of that width and height weighs tons upon tons. That was done with nothing but his strength. 616 Cap held up a skyscraper with his vibranium matrix shield, that wasn't all his strength. Try reading the comic you ninny. And nuts to your comparison of the two scans. If you read the scan from the Ultimates you'll notice that it's just a regular gym. How the hell are they going to have several ton weights in there for him to work out with anyway? He's working out there because it brings back memories to him.

Ult. Cap went toe-to-toe with not just Ult. Hulk but Herr Kleiser, a guy that was busting up an enraged Ult. Hulk. He jumped several stories straight up from a crashing jet. He free fell into water from 600 feet without pause in Ultimates v2 #1. Whereas USAgent got f'ed up when he fell several stories when he was hypnotized by Purple Man in Civil War: Choosing Sides. Now you tell me whether USAgent can survive this, get up in one panel and go on to fight:


The vibranium absorbs "impact" it doesn't make "weight" disappear, theres a difference. Plus he went toe to toe with U. Hulk that was hurt and vomiting from his fight with U.Ironman/wasp calming him/tank drop toe to toe LOL, which only put him down briefly. Did you even see the friggin fight? U.Hulk threw him and treated U.Cap like he was non-existant you have a funny definition for goint toe to toe. Kleiser had its own set of circumstances as well.......read the books. He's working out there because thats his level of weights. Even his opponent Kleiser mentioned he's getting weaker. 616 Cap while in jail clothes survive a nasty airplane crash with no injury as the plane was decimated to another time fall going at 100 mph as Reed Richards stated it.

You talk about durability but thats not "strength" and I stated USAgent is stronger then U.Cap you wanker...... USAgent I've seen him take hits from the wrecking crew, Warrior Woman(around Namor strength) to even defeat Ronan.

For some fight feats and durability feats Agent. But the point is Agent is stronger then U.Cap. Agent lifts buildings that fall off him with not much leverage or movement to go on. U.Cap did not military press that tree but used his whole body for that feat. 616 Cap has feats that match like catching WW2 torpedoes on the "move".

lol, would I be going too far by saying 90% of the Hulk showings from the last 2 years are PIS?

Here Cap shoulder hits a thick metal door as it shows it cracked and mangled up badly.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/189/camedusaeffect049td3.jpg
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/4290/camedusaeffect050mq6.jpg

Catching a thick Torpedo while its on the "move" and hitting the other with his shield.
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/3656/captainamerica37story2pqw5.jpg

And 616 Cap stated Agent is roughly 10 times stronger then him. U.Cap feats don't even decimate 616 Cap, let alone show he's stronger then USAgent.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
The vibranium absorbs "impact" it doesn't make "weight" disappear, theres a difference. Plus he went toe to toe with U. Hulk that was hurt and vomiting from his fight with U.Ironman/wasp calming him/tank drop toe to toe LOL, which only put him down briefly. Did you even see the friggin fight? U.Hulk threw him and treated U.Cap like he was non-existant you have a funny definition for goint toe to toe. Kleiser had its own set of circumstances as well.......read the books. He's working out there because thats his level of weights. Even his opponent Kleiser mentioned he's getting weaker. 616 Cap while in jail clothes survive a nasty airplane crash with no injury as the plane was decimated to another time fall going at 100 mph as Reed Richards stated it.Metal vibranium may not make weight disappear, but a vibranium simulated matrix shield does. If you read the comic again, the captions even say that his shield is helping him with the weight. Don't just look at the scan in the respect thread, read the next page, if you have the comic. My guess is you don't. And going toe-to-toe with Ult. Hulk is a low feat to you? You try to downplay how strong Ult. Hulk was, but COME ON! At that specific moment in time, he was still able to rip through that tank like it was paper! And yeah, apparently you've never been to a gym because there's no way you can get into the tons level at a gym, he's constrained by the limits of a normal gym. Your interpretation is laughable considering he explains EXACTLY why he's training in that gym for nostalgia purposes.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
You talk about durability but thats not "strength" and I stated USAgent is stronger then U.Cap you wanker...... USAgent I've seen him take hits from the wrecking crew, Warrior Woman(around Namor strength) to even defeat Ronan.

For some fight feats and durability feats Agent. But the point is Agent is stronger then U.Cap. Agent lifts buildings that fall off him with not much leverage or movement to go on. U.Cap did not military press that tree but used his whole body for that feat. 616 Cap has feats that match like catching WW2 torpedoes on the "move". And I contend that his fights with Ult. Hulk and Herr Kleiser and his feat of holding up a tree, without the benefit of any special shield, equal if not surpass USAgent's level of strength.

His durability is a whole other issue that I decided to bring up and an issue you obviously have avoided since I just compared two instances of Ult. Cap and USAgent falling from heights and USAgent clearly loses out. And go ahead and show me a scan of USAgent getting pummeled point-blank by a class 100 foe and getting up to fight. Still waiting for an answer to my original query, "You really think USAgent could take a hit like that?"

This entire side debate doesn't much matter to me anyway. Nobody puts Ult. Cap on the same level as USAgent except maybe you. USAgent wishes he could suck Ult. Cap's left nut. Let's stop derailing the thread, by talking about some two-bit scrub who's been involved in more cancelled series then any other character in Marvel and get back on topic. 616 Cap is strong, but not as strong as Ult. Cap, not even close. 616 Cap doesn't leap several stories straight up, he doesn't grab granite slabs and create cracks and grips with his bare hands, and he doesn't hold up trees of that size without his shield. Don't even try to compare their respective strengths. I read more and know more about Cap then most people. Strength-wise, there is no comparison.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Metal vibranium may not make weight disappear, but a vibranium simulated matrix shield does. If you read the comic again, the captions even say that his shield is helping him with the weight. Don't just look at the scan in the respect thread, read the next page, if you have the comic. My guess is you don't. And going toe-to-toe with Ult. Hulk is a low feat to you? You try to downplay how strong Ult. Hulk was, but COME ON! At that specific moment in time, he was still able to rip through that tank like it was paper! And yeah, apparently you've never been to a gym because there's no way you can get into the tons level at a gym, he's constrained by the limits of a normal gym. Your interpretation is laughable considering he explains EXACTLY why he's training in that gym for nostalgia purposes.
And I contend that his fights with Ult. Hulk and Herr Kleiser and his feat of holding up a tree, without the benefit of any special shield, equal if not surpass USAgent's level of strength.

His durability is a whole other issue that I decided to bring up and an issue you obviously have avoided since I just compared two instances of Ult. Cap and USAgent falling from heights and USAgent clearly loses out. And go ahead and show me a scan of USAgent getting pummeled point-blank by a class 100 foe and getting up to fight. Still waiting for an answer to my original query, "You really think USAgent could take a hit like that?"

This entire side debate doesn't much matter to me anyway. Nobody puts Ult. Cap on the same level as USAgent except maybe you. USAgent wishes he could suck Ult. Cap's left nut. Let's stop derailing the thread, by talking about some two-bit scrub who's been involved in more cancelled series then any other character in Marvel and get back on topic. 616 Cap is strong, but not as strong as Ult. Cap, not even close. 616 Cap doesn't leap several stories straight up, he doesn't grab granite slabs and create cracks and grips with his bare hands, and he doesn't hold up trees of that size without his shield. Don't even try to compare their respective strengths. I read more and know more about Cap then most people. Strength-wise, there is no comparison.

Bro can we try and keep this civil. To be fair you did kinda start it. I dont have beef with with you or Daredevil1 and were all Captain America fans. We should join forces and destroy the Wolverine fanboys!!!!! CRUSH WOLVERINE!!!!!

Ok serioulsy now im with Daredevil1 on this. The fact of the matter is I dont think you have any concrete evidence to say that Ult Cap is stronger and more durable than US Agent. Ok Ult Cap has fought Ult Hulk, yeah sure thats impressive but the point is that Ult Hulk was not at his peak when fighting Ult Cap because Ult Cap dropped a tank on him and had help...after that he just got beaten up. Hell Ult Hulk might not even be class100 but hes strong thats for sure (ie he might be classified as class 80 or 70 which is lower class 100)

Furthermore US Agent took a beating from Ronan The Accuser and got up and KOed Ronan. Ronan is a herald level characters and thats comparable to him taking a beating from Ult Hulk and Ult Abom.

Ult Cap held up a tree. Bro do you know how heavy that tree was? That doesnt look like anything that US Agent couldnt do.

As for the 616 Cap I dont think that Daredevil1 was saying that 616 Cap is stronger or even more durable than Ult Cap I think he was just saying that some of his feats are comparable or not that far off from Ult Cap. For example there is no point in telling us that Ult Cap has jumped several stories from a jet plane when 616 Cap has done the samething out of a helicopter. Any strength or durability feat that 616 Cap can take US Agent should be able to, the only reason why he probably lost his nerve from jumping out of a plane was probably due to courage and not durability.

Sure there may be some feats from Ult Cap that are better than US Agents but to be fair alot of them seem comparable. .

I have the book but maybe you should read it as it states the shield only helps so much as with the weight as it states the rest is being held by Captain America. I see you didn't respond to the torpedos and dented thick metal door. Apparently your not reading he not only went there for just a one time day memories but he made a contract with that gym as well plus he gives other reasons as well nothing to do with the "weights" unlike what you state. Your logic is nonsensical and irrational at best. He did not go toe to toe with him again your logic is pathetic. U.Cap got owned by U.Hulk to deny this is to deny what actually happened.

U.Cap downed him briefly which 616 Cap has downed Thunderball, to the real Hulk briefly, to many others such as Hyde and the Wrecker. Point is its not that great of a feat in comparison to 616 Cap.






They don't even surpass Cap. No way does his strength feats surpass USAgent. No offense but I just pointed out 616 Cap durability feats so who cares. Agent is stronger and U.Cap feats fail to look superior to Caps. Ironman even stated if felt like holding a tornado, as he was holding Cap down. As Cap rips apart chains and falls from building level heights and even ran a mile a minute. To break or dent a thick metal door, to even catch thick WW2 torpedoes. Please spare us you pathetic rhetoric babble. Lets face it Agent is stronger and 616 Cap is the better fighter...........

Lets not forget U.Abom is not as strong as U.Hulk who easily killed U.Abom I might add.

Ultimate Cap is definitely stronger, and has the killer instinct to a further extent. However, he is prone to rage, and so loses his cool (which is the reason that Herr Kleiser kicked the shit out of him at first in Homeland Security, in my opinion.) However 616 Cap is more skilled, level-headed, and most importantly controlled and careful. So I go with 616 Cap 6/10.

Originally posted by Etrigan
Ultimate Cap is definitely stronger, and has the killer instinct to a further extent. However, he is prone to rage, and so loses his cool (which is the reason that Herr Kleiser kicked the shit out of him at first in Homeland Security, in my opinion.) However 616 Cap is more skilled, level-headed, and most importantly controlled and careful. So I go with 616 Cap 6/10.

I think he's more durable as well....

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Bro can we try and keep this civil. To be fair you did kinda start it. I dont have beef with with you or Daredevil1 and were all Captain America fans. We should join forces and destroy the Wolverine fanboys!!!!! CRUSH WOLVERINE!!!!!

Ok serioulsy now im with Daredevil1 on this. The fact of the matter is I dont think you have any concrete evidence to say that Ult Cap is stronger and more durable than US Agent. Ok Ult Cap has fought Ult Hulk, yeah sure thats impressive but the point is that Ult Hulk was not at his peak when fighting Ult Cap because Ult Cap dropped a tank on him and had help...after that he just got beaten up. Hell Ult Hulk might not even be class100 but hes strong thats for sure (ie he might be classified as class 80 or 70 which is lower class 100)

Furthermore US Agent took a beating from Ronan The Accuser and got up and KOed Ronan. Ronan is a herald level characters and thats comparable to him taking a beating from Ult Hulk and Ult Abom.

Ult Cap held up a tree. Bro do you know how heavy that tree was? That doesnt look like anything that US Agent couldnt do.

As for the 616 Cap I dont think that Daredevil1 was saying that 616 Cap is stronger or even more durable than Ult Cap I think he was just saying that some of his feats are comparable or not that far off from Ult Cap. For example there is no point in telling us that Ult Cap has jumped several stories from a jet plane when 616 Cap has done the samething out of a helicopter. Any strength or durability feat that 616 Cap can take US Agent should be able to, the only reason why he probably lost his nerve from jumping out of a plane was probably due to courage and not durability.

Sure there may be some feats from Ult Cap that are better than US Agents but to be fair alot of them seem comparable. . We are all Cap fans and I don't mind debating over it, but you guys are being as bit selective when countering my arguments. Ult. Hulk ripped through the tank like it was paper and Ult. Cap got into a straight up fist-fight with him. Sure 616 Cap has knocked out Thunderball, but let's be honest here, that was a sucker punch.

And you're referring to 'Maximum Security?' I haven't read it in a while, so I'll take a look at it again and see if USAgent ever got point-blank pounded by Ronan to seemingly no effect. If you have it, let me know.

Ult. Cap held up the tree. How do we know how heavy it was? By simple calculations. There was another thread about this whole debate and through simple measurements, most people agreed that tree was well past 10 ton range.

My arguments with Daredevil1 have gone off on a tangent. I didn't cite them to prove Ult. Cap's strength and durability were superior to 616 Cap's. That much is obvious. I was debating whether Ult. Cap was as strong or stronger then USAgent. And you and Daredevil1 still misinterpret the feat I'm speaking of. In Ultimates #12, Ult. Cap jumps several stories straight up from a crashing plane. No ejector seat, nothing. He just leaps straight up, it's in the respect thread. Skydiving from a plane 600 feet high is a separate feat. Both of those feats are superior to any of USAgent's that I've seen, never mind 616 Cap's.

And I don't remember ever saying that USAgent ever lost his nerve jumping out of a plane. I was referring to when Purple Man hypnotized him in Civil War: Choosing Sides and he fell from several stories up and when you next see USAgent, he's all in bandages and junk. I was comparing that scene to Ult. Cap skydiving straight into water from 600 feet high (which is 50-60 stories give or take). But if you know of a scene where USAgent is afraid of jumping out of a plane, let me know. Otherwise, I've never seen USAgent take a pounding like Ult. Cap. I don't think there's any question Ult. Cap is more durable then USAgent, I've proved as much already. Strength-wise, it's a tossup. But arguing that he works out at his old gym because those are the weights he can handle is ridiculous. He even states in the scan that he hates those fancy new gyms and being a member at the old gym is a dream of his.

And now I got Daredevil1 trying to classify Ult. Abomination as weaker then Ult. Hulk (no sh1t sherlock), and that somehow undermines Ult. Cap's soaking up the blow from him. Ha. I know every single one of 616 Cap's impressive feats and I got this guy acting like he's lecturing me about them. I've been in pretty much every Cap vs. thread that's been made in KMC. 616 Cap never held up a multi-ton tree with nothing but his own strength, 616 Cap never grabbed granite and cracked it with his bare fingers, 616 Cap never leapt several stories straight up. They're not that comparable in strength. And durability wise, Ult. Cap exceeds both 616 Cap and his cheap knockoff. I'm absolutely open to scans for either of them, but I'm done spanking USAgent for now. There's a USAgent vs. Ult. Cap thread and before derailing this thread any further, we can take any further discussion about him there: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=390485&highlight=title%3A%28ultimate+cap%29. This is about 616 Cap vs. Ult. Cap.

lol, to be fair, in Omega Flight U.S. Agent mostly hid behind his shield while firing his .45 So I dunno if that says more about his current abilities, his lack of bravery, or mishandling by his writers. Either way its not a good sign when your the weakest member of a Canadian based team...

Thats silly saying 616 Cap never held up a tree.

Thats like me saying U.Cap never caught WW2 torpedos on the go. Or U.Cap never fell from an altitude while going 100 mph. Or U.Cap never ran a mile in a minute. Or U.Cap never dented a pure thick steel.
Or U.Cap never dodged "beams" while under zero gravity etc etc etc.

616 Cap has also taken hits from Namor and Ironman and was not KO'ed as well.


I see all your doing is ignoring feats for Cap is all your doing. I have no problem admitting U.Cap is a bit stronger but nothing portrayed or stated like USAgent.

Especially since most of his feat don't look more impressive then 616 Cap.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
We are all Cap fans and I don't mind debating over it, but you guys are being as bit selective when countering my arguments. Ult. Hulk ripped through the tank like it was paper and Ult. Cap got into a straight up fist-fight with him. Sure 616 Cap has knocked out Thunderball, but let's be honest here, that was a sucker punch.

Ok but as you know there are other examples, for example hitting Savage Hulk so hard he lets go of him. Savage Hulk>>>> Ult Hulk. It also was not a striaight up fist fight. Cap dropped the tank on him then layed into Ult Hulk, after that he got beatdown.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

And you're referring to 'Maximum Security?' I haven't read it in a while, so I'll take a look at it again and see if USAgent ever got point-blank pounded by Ronan to seemingly no effect. If you have it, let me know.

Well there you go.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/3MaximumSecurity33.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/3MaximumSecurity34.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/3MaximumSecurity35.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/3MaximumSecurity36.jpg

The point is Ronan >>>>> Ultimate Hulk.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Ult. Cap held up the tree. How do we know how heavy it was? By simple calculations. There was another thread about this whole debate and through simple measurements, most people agreed that tree was well past 10 ton range.


http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled5154zw.jpg
No he braced the wieght of the tree. Hell he didnt even lift it compleley off the ground because it was partially supported by the truck. I could see 616 Cap doing that. We still dont know how much it weighed hell I think somebody who could lift 600lbs maybe be able to tip over a car and brace its weight, that dont mean he can lift 2 tons.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0

My arguments with Daredevil1 have gone off on a tangent. I didn't cite them to prove Ult. Cap's strength and durability were superior to 616 Cap's. That much is obvious. I was debating whether Ult. Cap was as strong or stronger then USAgent. And you and Daredevil1 still misinterpret the feat I'm speaking of. In Ultimates #12, Ult. Cap jumps several stories straight up from a crashing plane. No ejector seat, nothing. He just leaps straight up, it's in the respect thread. Skydiving from a plane 600 feet high is a separate feat. Both of those feats are superior to any of USAgent's that I've seen, never mind 616 Cap's.

Well ok that was 600 feet into water was it? I think an ordinery guy did something like that once. Ok he jumped several strories into the air, I had a look at it again and that 1 ft looks impressive but that alone dont make him heads and shoulders above US Agent. Above 616 probably but he did manage to jump on to Iron man he was trying to fly away from him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

And I don't remember ever saying that USAgent ever lost his nerve jumping out of a plane. I was referring to when Purple Man hypnotized him in Civil War: Choosing Sides and he fell from several stories up and when you next see USAgent, he's all in bandages and junk. I was comparing that scene to Ult. Cap skydiving straight into water from 600 feet high (which is 50-60 stories give or take). But if you know of a scene where USAgent is afraid of jumping out of a plane, let me know. Otherwise, I've never seen USAgent take a pounding like Ult. Cap. I don't think there's any question Ult. Cap is more durable then USAgent, I've proved as much already. Strength-wise, it's a tossup. But arguing that he works out at his old gym because those are the weights he can handle is ridiculous. He even states in the scan that he hates those fancy new gyms and being a member at the old gym is a dream of his.

Ok fair enough. Again though US Agent took a beating from Ronan thats more impressive than taking a beating from Ultimate Hulk. Alos I think that might have happened before US Agents upgrade..maybe.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0

And now I got Daredevil1 trying to classify Ult. Abomination as weaker then Ult. Hulk (no sh1t sherlock), and that somehow undermines Ult. Cap's soaking up the blow from him. Ha. I know every single one of 616 Cap's impressive feats and I got this guy acting like he's lecturing me about them. I've been in pretty much every Cap vs. thread that's been made in KMC. 616 Cap never held up a multi-ton tree with nothing but his own strength,

Well you know what. Azareal has blantaly lifted up a tree, he has been classified as having 1-2 tons strength like Cap has, as far as im concerned Ult Cap was supporting its weight and not really lifting it up.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

616 Cap never grabbed granite and cracked it with his bare fingers,


Well he did smash some guys head againt the concrete and manged to crack it...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

616 Cap never leapt several stories straight up.

He did manage to catch Iron Man who was trying to fly away, but we dont know exactly how he jumped but was still pretty impressive.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

They're not that comparable in strength. And durability wise, Ult. Cap exceeds both 616 Cap and his cheap knockoff. I'm absolutely open to scans for either of them, but I'm done spanking USAgent for now. There's a USAgent vs. Ult. Cap thread and before derailing this thread any further, we can take any further discussion about him there: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=390485&highlight=title%3A%28ultimate+cap%29. This is about 616 Cap vs. Ult. Cap.


I think Ult Cap is more durable than than 616 Cap but you havnet proven that hes stronger than 616 Cap or more durable than the US Agent.

Originally posted by grey fox
I think he's more durable as well....

616 Cap? More durable than Ult. Cap? No way. Could 616 Cap keep conscious after being smashed several times over the head by a super-strong character with a pipe that had a chunk of concrete still attached? I doubt it. Although I'm still going with 616 on this for sheer mental and tactical power.

It all comes down to the shield. Ult cap's shield is made of adamantium. 616 cap's shield is made of crazy indestructible stuff. Besides that, ultiamte adamantium isnt even as good as 616 kind. Hulk ripped wolverine in half. They just dont make it like they used to. The vibranium in 616 cap's shield will absorb any impacts ult cap can dish out. Ult cap doesn't have that luxury with adamantium.

Well I think if it's going to come down to the shield then it's going to also come down to who is more skilled/balanced wielding it, and maybe throwing accuracy. Think about it (this is just a for instance example) 616 Cap's shield may be stronger or more durable, but if he can't get it up for defense quickly enough then Ultimate Cap is going to KO him with one good throw.

By the way, I do support 616 Cap here, but that was just an example.

Originally posted by Etrigan
Well I think if it's going to come down to the shield then it's going to also come down to who is more skilled/balanced wielding it, and maybe throwing accuracy.


Cap has that down. Ult. Cap uses his shield more realistically, while Cap has that cartoon level of craziness with his shield skills.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2934/captainamericavol32319rq3.th.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2685/captainamericavol32321ng1.th.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6186/captainamericavol32322bx8.th.jpg

Heres another one.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3213/captainamericasentinelowx2.th.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3558/captainamericasentinelora0.th.jpg

Originally posted by Etrigan
616 Cap? More durable than Ult. Cap? No way. Could 616 Cap keep conscious after being smashed several times over the head by a super-strong character with a pipe that had a chunk of concrete still attached? I doubt it. Although I'm still going with 616 on this for sheer mental and tactical power.


Well considering what Cap took in Civil War and in his fight with the enhanced Red Scull who used Cap's body like a wrecking ball that brought down the entire building on them. Well yeah U.Cap might have a better durability but not by too much I imagine.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but as you know there are other examples, for example hitting Savage Hulk so hard he lets go of him. Savage Hulk>>>> Ult Hulk. It also was not a striaight up fist fight. Cap dropped the tank on him then layed into Ult Hulk, after that he got beatdown.I find it interesting to note that there are only two ways that you guys are willing to interpret that scene:

1) Ult. Hulk is very weak and clearly not 100-class and therefore, Ult. Cap knocking him out momentarily isn't indicative of Ult. Cap having greater strength then 616 Cap.

or

2) Ult. Hulk is pretty damn strong, but his fight with Ult. Iron Man, his calming down by Ult. Wasp and the tank dropping on him made him so weak, that Ult. Cap (who is also weak) was able to knock him out.

This leaves out the most obvious interpretation of that scene: Ult. Hulk is friggin strong and Ult. Cap was strong enough to knock him on his butt with straight up fisticuffs. Why is this interpretation so hard to imagine? Ult. Hulk is not weak. Say it with me: Ult. Hulk is not weak. He wasn't even on the verge of being knocked out, at that exact moment in time he was still strong enough to rip through that tank like it was paper. Ult. Hulk is ridiculously strong if you've read the Ultimates in every appearance he's been in. What I see is a concerted effort in equivocating to the point where you actually have to argue that either Ult. Hulk is weak or that Ult. Hulk was about to keel over from exhaustion and that's why Ult. Cap was able to knock him on his butt.

Ult. Hulk's specialty is recovery time and adaptability. He was strong enough to take Ult. Giantman apart in three panels, strong enough to rip through Ult. Ironman's armor and strong enough to rip apart that tank. In later appearances, you see his strength even more illustrated as he rips apart Herr Kleiser and the entire Chitauri fleet. Now, if it is your opinion that Ult. Hulk either started out weak in that particular appearance then you have to explain how he was able to rip through that tank. If your opinion is that he was beat down so badly, that it would only take a few hits from a less then class-10 hitter to knock him out, then explain how he was able to take three full-blown Mjolnir shots from Ult. Thor and turn around and make fun of Ult. Thor's hippy haircut. Because that took place DIRECTLY after Ult. Hulk's fight with Ult. Cap. Explain both those points. Because the obvious explanation, considering that Ult. Cap can take shots from Ult. Abomination, leap several stories straight up, fight Herr Klesier and hold up trees is that Ult. Cap is just that damn strong.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well there you go.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/3MaximumSecurity33.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/3MaximumSecurity34.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/3MaximumSecurity35.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/3MaximumSecurity36.jpg

The point is Ronan >>>>> Ultimate Hulk. What I see is USAgent being taken apart by the Ultimate Weapon in Ronan's disposal and being so messed up that he can barely stand. How is that, for argument's purposes, comparable to Ult. Cap taking a point-blank double-fist pounding from Ult. Abomination and getting up to fight Abdul? I am not arguing that they are the same and that because USagent is in a rougher shape, that Ult. Cap's feat is greater. They are completely different circumstances. Energy weapon vs. double fist pound? I have no idea how strong the output of his energy weapon was as compared to a double-fist pound by a class-100 opponent. You'd have to assume a whole lot in order to guage the side-by-side durability. You assume that because it's Ronan, who in your opinion is greater then Ult. Hulk, that the feat means USAgent is more durable then Ult. Cap, even when USAgent can barely stand or talk. My natural inclination is to assume that the blast was not as damaging as a double-fist pound by Ult. Abomination and because it was weaker, that shows Ult. Cap's durability is far superior considering Ult. Cap had no problem getting up to fight another Super Soldier.

You need more direct side-by-side comparisons. As we shall see later on, when we compare falling from great heights. So unless you got a scan of a class-100 opponent piledriving USAgent and him being fine, the scan is very off-topic and completely open to base assumptions.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled5154zw.jpg
No he braced the wieght of the tree. Hell he didnt even lift it compleley off the ground because it was partially supported by the truck. I could see 616 Cap doing that. We still dont know how much it weighed hell I think somebody who could lift 600lbs maybe be able to tip over a car and brace its weight, that dont mean he can lift 2 tons. The tree that crushed the truck is a different tree then the one Ult. Cap is bracing. The tree Ult. Cap is holding up hasn't fallen on anything yet. This is obvious because in the second panel, there are no soldiers underneath the tree that crushed the truck and the tree that Ult. Cap is stopping (third panel) has several soldiers underneath it. Trees that height and width have been measured to be 30-40 tons. And considering that the tree is nearly parallel to the ground, Ult. Cap is indeed holding the entire thing up from and not just trying to keep it vertical (your idea of bracing). It's on top of him.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well ok that was 600 feet into water was it? I think an ordinery guy did something like that once. Ok he jumped several strories into the air, I had a look at it again and that 1 ft looks impressive but that alone dont make him heads and shoulders above US Agent. Above 616 probably but he did manage to jump on to Iron man he was trying to fly away from him.

Ok fair enough. Again though US Agent took a beating from Ronan thats more impressive than taking a beating from Ultimate Hulk. Alos I think that might have happened before US Agents upgrade..maybe.Now look here. This is a direct comparison. Don't equivocate on this point. USAgent fell from several stories and had bandages and slings and Ult. Cap dove from 600 feet into the air into water (which is essentially concrete at that point) and went on to swim several miles. Who appears to have greater durability? Just because you think two punches and an energy blast from a nonchalant Ronan is worse then however many times Ult. Hulk bashed on Ult. Cap off-panel doesn't mitigate the direct comparison I've laid out for you here.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well you know what. Azareal has blantaly lifted up a tree, he has been classified as having 1-2 tons strength like Cap has, as far as im concerned Ult Cap was supporting its weight and not really lifting it up.

Well he did smash some guys head againt the concrete and manged to crack it...

He did manage to catch Iron Man who was trying to fly away, but we dont know exactly how he jumped but was still pretty impressive.

I think Ult Cap is more durable than than 616 Cap but you havnet proven that hes stronger than 616 Cap or more durable than the US Agent. It's your interpretation, but when you have a tree that's falling down on top of you, that's a lot harder then just bracing it from a stationary position with your strength. As a second look will inform you, Ult. Cap not only managed to stop the tree's momentum, but held it up without any aid whatsoever. He even managed to make a joke about it. If you choose to believe that it was an isolated instance or the tree was somehow made of air and didn't weigh a couple dozen tons, I can't convince you otherwise that he's stronger then USAgent. Other people will make their own judgment. But I don't think anyone here will argue that 616 Cap could jump several stories straight up. I've never seen USAgent do it, but no way does 616 Cap jump that high. That's a Spiderman feat. Ult. Cap >>>> 616 Cap in strength.

But in terms of durability, I think I've very amply proved that Ult. Cap's is greater then USAgent's when you compare the 600 ft no-parachute skydive with the hypnotized falling several stories. Ult. Cap was fine and even swam several miles. USAgent was in bandages. Nuff said.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but as you know there are other examples, for example hitting Savage Hulk so hard he lets go of him. Savage Hulk>>>> Ult Hulk. It also was not a striaight up fist fight. Cap dropped the tank on him then layed into Ult Hulk, after that he got beatdown.


Pretty much. 616 Cap had downed briefly guys that can rip tanks apart as well. Such as Rhino, Hyde, Thunderball, Ironman. Plus note that Thunderball at the time didn't really have much circumstances like U.Cap vs U.Hulk fight.

Really thats a feat I could see 616 Cap match easily. U.Shield even noted that U.Hulk was getting stronger throughout the duration of his fight against the Ultimate Avengers. So it would make sense he was at his weakest with wasp calming for bit and then got stronger to the point with U.Thor.

As U.Thor actually was able to break bones and shatter ribs IIRC. Besides U.Hulk treating U.Cap like a insect later on in there fight without circumstances involved.

Later on in another Ultimate big fight. We got too see U.Cap fight U.Thor as it was shown U.Cap needed to use a flame thrower and it was pretty much stated U.Cap needed to be saved from U.Thor. Does this really sound like U.Cap can go toe to toe with U.Hulk like some of his fans make it out to be?........I think not. Because he couldn't.

Even against his Scroll fight, he had him severely wounded from the jet plane and could only gain the upper hand by using the edge of his shield against him. Again misinterpreted especially forgeting Kleiser was hurt from the start from the Jet plane ram and then its big explosion. As seen here.
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3663/ultimates12pyratep05hy6.th.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8758/ultimates12pyratep06oh3.th.jpg

Later on U.Nick even blows a part of the scrolls head off. As U.Cap gains the momentum when the scroll is more gloating then really trying anything, as he wants U.Cap to admit surrender. As then Cap takes the initiative and leaves him unbalanced and he cleaves him apart with the edge of his adamantium shield.

Again not anything that shows U.Cap can go toe to toe with U.Hulk or as shown with U.Thor for that matter. As it was admitted on book he can't and needed rescueing.

A feat again 616 Cap can match with the edge of his shield as he has matched. Against Baron Blood a vampire who has stalemated Namor back in WW2. As Cap didn't have much of an option but decided to decapitate the vampires head off. This has some circumstances as well but so did the Kleiser and U.Hulk fight.

Also something I noticed with U.Abom hitting U.Cap.

The first punching looks like it really doesn't connect solidly as U.Cap might have gone with it as he doesn't cry out in pain, not up until the second hit. Which is impressive but not something superior to 616 Cap's feats.


Cap takes a bruising from a upset Ironman.
http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0918to3.jpg
http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0919zm0.jpg
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0921tj0.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0923ax6.jpg


And from Civil War.
"ouch" Is all I can say.

http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0020ke1.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0021rz1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0022nz4.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0006hc1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0007nc4.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0008dd0.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I find it interesting to note that there are only two ways that you guys are willing to interpret that scene:

1) Ult. Hulk is very weak and clearly not 100-class and therefore, Ult. Cap knocking him out momentarily isn't indicative of Ult. Cap having greater strength then 616 Cap.

or

2) Ult. Hulk is pretty damn strong, but his fight with Ult. Iron Man, his calming down by Ult. Wasp and the tank dropping on him made him so weak, that Ult. Cap (who is also weak) was able to knock him out.

This leaves out the most obvious interpretation of that scene: Ult. Hulk is friggin strong and Ult. Cap was strong enough to knock him on his butt with straight up fisticuffs. Why is this interpretation so hard to imagine? Ult. Hulk is not weak. Say it with me: Ult. Hulk is not weak. He wasn't even on the verge of being knocked out, at that exact moment in time he was still strong enough to rip through that tank like it was paper. Ult. Hulk is ridiculously strong if you've read the Ultimates in every appearance he's been in. What I see is a concerted effort in equivocating to the point where you actually have to argue that either Ult. Hulk is weak or that Ult. Hulk was about to keel over from exhaustion and that's why Ult. Cap was able to knock him on his butt.

Ult. Hulk's specialty is recovery time and adaptability. He was strong enough to take Ult. Giantman apart in three panels, strong enough to rip through Ult. Ironman's armor and strong enough to rip apart that tank. In later appearances, you see his strength even more illustrated as he rips apart Herr Kleiser and the entire Chitauri fleet. Now, if it is your opinion that Ult. Hulk either started out weak in that particular appearance then you have to explain how he was able to rip through that tank. If your opinion is that he was beat down so badly, that it would only take a few hits from a less then class-10 hitter to knock him out, then explain how he was able to take three full-blown Mjolnir shots from Ult. Thor and turn around and make fun of Ult. Thor's hippy haircut. Because that took place DIRECTLY after Ult. Hulk's fight with Ult. Cap. Explain both those points. Because the obvious explanation, considering that Ult. Cap can take shots from Ult. Abomination, leap several stories straight up, fight Herr Klesier and hold up trees is that Ult. Cap is just that damn strong.

So you still continuing to be rude...ok. First of all the point is not that he was 'weak" but 'weaker', get it? He was fighting other Avengers and just had a tank dropped on him!!!!! So eventhough ripping apart that tank was impressive he was not fighting at full capicity.

The other point. Savage Hulk >>>> Ult Hulk. Ronan >>> Ult Hulk. 616 Cap has more impressive showings against a stronger Hulk. US Agent ahs taken beating from Ronan who is more powerful than Ult Hulk.

Furthermore it wasnt straight up fisticuffs he used his skill. For example he used both his feet to hit Hulk. Hell ive seen Beast and Spiderman both yours there legs to hurt much stronger opponents. He aimed for his nose, didnt 616 Cap use Rhinos nose to KO him? He kicked him in the nuts!!!! Hell you dont even know wether Ult Hulk is class 100, im pretty goddamn sure if Spiderman kicked Doc Samson in the nuts it would hurt.

Hes speciality is recovery time? Whats your proof? Ult Hulk took part Giant Man in 3 panels. Big deal, considering that US Agent has fought Sasquatch and 616 Cap has taken out Giant Man with one finger in a weakened state I dont see what the big deal is Ult Giantman seems like a goddamn pussy that beats his woman.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0

What I see is USAgent being taken apart by the Ultimate Weapon in Ronan's disposal and being so messed up that he can barely stand. How is that, for argument's purposes, comparable to Ult. Cap taking a point-blank double-fist pounding from Ult. Abomination and getting up to fight Abdul? I am not arguing that they are the same and that because USagent is in a rougher shape, that Ult. Cap's feat is greater. They are completely different circumstances. Energy weapon vs. double fist pound? I have no idea how strong the output of his energy weapon was as compared to a double-fist pound by a class-100 opponent. You'd have to assume a whole lot in order to guage the side-by-side durability. You assume that because it's Ronan, who in your opinion is greater then Ult. Hulk, that the feat means USAgent is more durable then Ult. Cap, even when USAgent can barely stand or talk. My natural inclination is to assume that the blast was not as damaging as a double-fist pound by Ult. Abomination and because it was weaker, that shows Ult. Cap's durability is far superior considering Ult. Cap had no problem getting up to fight another Super Soldier.

Well considering he was doing this before he beatdown US Agent.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/3MaximumSecurity31.jpg

Im pretty godamn sure that both Thing and Iron Man on there own could give either Ult Hulk or Ult Abom a run for there money or beat them. So yeah Ronan >>> Ult Hulk and Ult Abom

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You need more direct side-by-side comparisons. As we shall see later on, when we compare falling from great heights. So unless you got a scan of a class-100 opponent piledriving USAgent and him being fine, the scan is very off-topic and completely open to base assumptions.


I dont care if its off-topic anymore you pissed me off. What assumptions?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The tree that crushed the truck is a different tree then the one Ult. Cap is bracing. The tree Ult. Cap is holding up hasn't fallen on anything yet. This is obvious because in the second panel, there are no soldiers underneath the tree that crushed the truck and the tree that Ult. Cap is stopping (third panel) has several soldiers underneath it. Trees that height and width have been measured to be 30-40 tons. And considering that the tree is nearly parallel to the ground, Ult. Cap is indeed holding the entire thing up from and not just trying to keep it vertical (your idea of bracing). It's on top of him.

The jury still out on that one considering that Wolverine is class 2 and has picked up a tree and hit somebody with it, and that Batman who is at most class 1 has kicked down a tree I dont see how that has to be class 30 or 40. Hell Azrael has lifted up a tree of similar size and hes classifed as class 2.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6678/strength12cs9cf0.th.jpg

I dont even think the writer even knows how much trees weigh.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Now look here. This is a direct comparison. Don't equivocate on this point. USAgent fell from several stories and had bandages and slings and Ult. Cap dove from 600 feet into the air into water (which is essentially concrete at that point) and went on to swim several miles. Who appears to have greater durability?

Excuse me????? Did US Agent fall into water or concrete? Ult Cap may have feel 600ft but he dived!!!!! Theres a difference it could dman well be argued that if he landed spread eagle he would have got ****ed up. Heres the important point. A normal human being or at leasst not even class10 has managed to do the samething. Hobgoblin tried to kill this gy by dropping him in the river from agreat hieght the guy survived by cutting the water.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Just because you think two punches and an energy blast from a nonchalant Ronan is worse then however many times Ult. Hulk bashed on Ult. Cap off-panel doesn't mitigate the direct comparison I've laid out for you here.

Excuse me. Ronan was about as nonchallant as he was when he brushed Thing and Ironman as when he was beating US Agent, so the fact he seemed nonchallant dont mean ****.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

It's your interpretation, but when you have a tree that's falling down on top of you, that's a lot harder then just bracing it from a stationary position with your strength. As a second look will inform you, Ult. Cap not only managed to stop the tree's momentum, but held it up without any aid whatsoever. He even managed to make a joke about it. If you choose to believe that it was an isolated instance or the tree was somehow made of air and didn't weigh a couple dozen tons, I can't convince you otherwise that he's stronger then USAgent. Other people will make their own judgment.

Do you think the writer knows how mcuh those tree weighs, hell he could have been like me and assumed that it would weigh something like around 10 tons. Characters who dont even have class 10 strength have similar feats.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

But I don't think anyone here will argue that 616 Cap could jump several stories straight up. I've never seen USAgent do it, but no way does 616 Cap jump that high. That's a Spiderman feat. Ult. Cap >>>> 616 Cap in strength.


Ok i'll go with that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

But in terms of durability, I think I've very amply proved that Ult. Cap's is greater then USAgent's when you compare the 600 ft no-parachute skydive with the hypnotized falling several stories. Ult. Cap was fine and even swam several miles. USAgent was in bandages. Nuff said.

No you havent.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Also something I noticed with U.Abom hitting U.Cap.

The first punching looks like it really doesn't connect solidly as U.Cap might have gone with it as he doesn't cry out in pain, not up until the second hit. Which is impressive but not something superior to 616 Cap's feats.


Cap takes a bruising from a upset Ironman.
http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0918to3.jpg
http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0919zm0.jpg
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0921tj0.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0923ax6.jpg


And from Civil War.
"ouch" Is all I can say.

http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0020ke1.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0021rz1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0022nz4.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0006hc1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0007nc4.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0008dd0.jpg

Looking at that evidence Ult Cap isnt above 616 Cap in durability that much. I will say this though I do have a problem with Cap taking full force blows from Iron Man. Iron Man has been classifed as class 80. Considering that Cap had to roll with the blow from a Skrull Collosus those blows should have killed him.

I would have assumed that in the Civil War IM was not hitting him full force. Got no problem with him taking class 10 shots but full force class 80s....I dunno man.

Yeah that punch from Ult Abom didnt look clean, well for starters its not like Ult Cap was smack bang in the midle of his fists and even the one fist that got him didnt fully connect. Stll impressive but GO is gonna throw a fit.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Well considering what Cap took in Civil War and in his fight with the enhanced Red Scull who used Cap's body like a wrecking ball that brought down the entire building on them. Well yeah U.Cap might have a better durability but not by too much I imagine.

I'd say he's far more durable. 616 Cap takes a lot of beatings (and yeah, getting smashed up by Iron Man in Civil War was a good example), but I think determination is a big part of it and in that field Ult Cap just doesn't go down. Of course 616 Cap is driven by determination as well, but Ult Cap has been beaten around a lot more.

Originally posted by Etrigan
I'd say he's far more durable. 616 Cap takes a lot of beatings (and yeah, getting smashed up by Iron Man in Civil War was a good example), but I think determination is a big part of it and in that field Ult Cap just doesn't go down. Of course 616 Cap is driven by determination as well, but Ult Cap has been beaten around a lot more.


That I can kind of agree with but not by far as you state it. It still evens out, if U.Cap is a bit more durable, if there is any gap, I see 616 Cap a bit more faster, more agile, more smarter and definitely much more skilled.

Yeah, me too. It's pretty close, but I think Cap could wear down Ult Cap and then just demolish him.

Originally posted by Etrigan
Yeah, me too. It's pretty close, but I think Cap could wear down Ult Cap and then just demolish him.

Me too. I perosonaly think 616 Cap would kick Ult Caps butt....maybe thats going to far but he wins the majority.

I think part of it may be due to 616 Cap being a more likable character as well.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Me too. I perosonaly think 616 Cap would kick Ult Caps butt....maybe thats going to far but he wins the majority.


It would be a nice crossover thats for sure. Oh happy days.

Originally posted by Etrigan
I think part of it may be due to 616 Cap being a more likable character as well.

durhulk No!

No? How so? I consider Ult. Cap to be a complete ass. Felt sorry for him when he cried with Bucky though.

Originally posted by Etrigan
No? How so? I consider Ult. Cap to be a complete ass. Felt sorry for him when he cried with Bucky though.

Im just saying Cap would not win because people like him more.

Oh, sorry. I thought you were saying you liked Ult Cap more as a character.

Originally posted by Etrigan
Oh, sorry. I thought you were saying you liked Ult Cap more as a character.

Nah...im not to sure Ult Cap seems a bit of an arse. In the Ultiamte universe Thor may be my favourite character.

Yeah, Thor was really cool, and of course Hawkeye pulled off some crazy crap.