Albedo Piazolla vs Sephiroth
Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.
Superboy Prime
Xenosaga's resident psychopath takes on FF7's all time nutcase Sephiroth. They battle at LOTR's Helm's Deep. Bloodlust on. No CIS/PIS.
1st round: Albedo vs Crisis Core Sepiroth(Nibelheim incident)
Albedo
He is U.R.T.V. Unit 667, and one of the few surviving U.R.T.V.s from the Miltian Conflict. Despite being mentally unstable, he is highly educated in a number of subjects, including but not limited to philosophy, science, language and religion, particularly ancient (in the Xenosaga universe) Christianity. He is also adept at complex strategic planning and anticipating his enemies' moves well in advance.
http://nataraja.egoism.jp/data/xeno/saga/ep2/img_chara09_black.jpg
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vs
Sephiroth
Sephiroth appears as a tall man with long silver hair, bright emerald-green cat-like eyes, a long black coat, white metallic pauldrons and belted black boots. He carries the sword Masamune, which is designed more as an extra long katana than the nodachi it is most commonly referred to as, a weapon that has appeared in each installment of the Final Fantasy series. It appears as if he is dominantly left-handed, as both he and his 'remnants' use their weapons with their left hands. In Final Fantasy VII, Sephiroth was the most famous member of SOLDIER, a paramilitary branch of the Shinra corporation, until he mysteriously disappeared five years prior to the beginning of the game. He then returns to enact a plot which threatens the game's world, bringing him into conflict with the game's protagonists, and particularly with its main character, Cloud Strife, who shares a past with Sephiroth.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Sephiroth_in_KH.jpg
2nd round = The White Testament vs One-Winged Angel Sephiroth
The White Testament(Albedo)
The Testaments
The Testaments are incredibly powerful and may easily rank among the most powerful entities in the series. Testaments are not corporeal in nature, in fact they are more like Gnosis (which they can also transform into) than they are human. In fact they do not even exist on the same plane as physical human beings. It is explained in the Episode III database that they only appear human because they affect people's perceptions, so much so that the people they confront actually believe they are seeing them as they are. An example is given that if a picture/video were taken of a Testament, they would not appear in it because they do not physically exist. However, if they wished it, they could cause themselves to appear in the photo/video because they are capable of manipulating the Real Numbers Domain from the Imaginary side.
Because they do not exist on our physical plane they can subvert the laws of physics to perform phenomenal feats. Virgil aptly explains; "The laws which govern us are just too different," after he easily brushes aside the party.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/Albedo_Testament2.jpg
vs
One-Winged Angel
http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/7sephiroth-b.jpg
Guilty Gear
Anyone in Xenosaga WTFPWNS anyone in FF7
Lol, jk. I'm not sure but I don't think Sephiroth would win.
And you posted a KH pic of a Final Fantasy character AGAIN, lol, and I don't think you clarified which incarnation of the first Sephiroth is being used.
Superboy Prime
I did. It's Crisis Core Sephiroth aka Sephiroth during the nibelheim incident.
And Albedo is very nasty. Just view the youtube link...you'll love it. *Evil Maniacal psycho laugh durlaugh*
Guilty Gear
Nah, don't feel like it.
Guilty Gear
I watched it.
2:16 lol & wtf
The guy's a maniac. I doubt Sephiroth could just cut off parts of his body and regenerate it without even feeling pain. Maniac from Xenosaga for the win.
Nikkolas
THAT MOVIE IS BULLSHIT.
English >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Japanese.
English has CRISPIN FREEMAN.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY5cufp4e6o
Anyway
First Round: What will Seph do? Cut his head off? Impale him? he can't die and he can regen from any of it.
He wins.
Second Round: Testaments are immune to all physical harm. They're not really there. Testaments exist in an imaginary realm and merely effect human minds to make us THInK they are there. As they are not really there, they can bend any laws of our universe.
So...he wins again.
Superboy Prime
Testaments are very uber.
They might even be above Jedah.
ThoraxeRMG
Sephiroth takes this.
Superboy Prime
...
Press play on the youtube link I posted in the intro and you will see why it will be really hard for Sephiroth to take the 1st round.
ThoraxeRMG
The reason why I picked Spehiroth is because I HATE Xenosaga.
SO prefer to pick and run in anyone VS Xenosaga.
I cannot stand any of the characters, gameplay or storyline.
Superboy Prime
Shame on you.
Bash the gameplay all you want; but the story and characters are great. Not to mention all the biblical references are awesome.
ThoraxeRMG
What? I beaten the first two, but it didn't appeal to me.
I though the whole Testament characters deal was too much.
I couldn't' stand Momo.
Superboy Prime
Seems to me you're whinning about the testaments because they own Sephiroth
I just wanted to point out that saying charaxter x wins because you hate his game is not convincing at all. In any case I'll drop it.
ThoraxeRMG
No, it's far from that.
Meh, you don't have to.
EDIT: But I gotta say Voyager was kick ass.
Guilty Gear
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Testaments are very uber.
They might even be above Jedah. Why wouldn't they be? I mean, everywhere I go I hear Jedah has dimension destroying attacks. Well, I think it was actually two or three people who were saying that in 1 or 2 threads. Despite that the only proof I've seen of Jedah capable of doing anything is: 1. Cutting off his head and growing it back; 2. Turning into liquid, and 3. The ability to gather souls to create a new world overtime, which sarcastically speaking, is very effective in a versus match.
Superboy Prime
Albedo is Sephiroth done right.
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BlaxicanHydra
Helms Deep?
Where did that come from?
Superboy Prime
The Two Towers dur
Superboy Prime
Holy Shit...not even reducing Albedo to particles can kill him.
QKImpZ3jdN4
Guilty Gear
Now that's impressive.
Superboy Prime
And in that video I found KOS-MOS using the Tertiary Weapon system to protect the party from U-do's energies.
And the testaments disentegrating the old **** and Ziggy punching the wall..
BINGO YAY!
Superboy Prime
Oh and by the way I just realized KOS-MOS was protecting them from the space/time anomally Albedo triggered when he made contact with U-do.
Guilty Gear
Continue masturbating.
ThoraxeRMG
Originally posted by Guilty Gear
Continue masturbating.
Or buy a KOS-MOS human model.
Pyron_Knight
Seph: *chops off Albedo's arms*
Albedo: Haha. *grows them back*
Sephiroth: *chops off Albedo's head*
Albedo: Haha. *grows it back*
And so-on.
Seph can't win.
Hannibal-Lector
sephiroth DOES have magic... like... death spell....
ThoraxeRMG
Why bring this thread back.
It only wounds me to think that our fair Gulity Gear is perma-banned.
*Cries*
EZB
Hmm.. so aside from this continuous regeneration, what does Albedo have to use? not trying to shoot him down or anything, i just haven't played the game. I mean, Sephiroth is... well SEPHIROTH! he's famous for kicking ass in more ways than one.. but from what I've seen, it looks like Albedo's only move back is to simply regenerate...
so i call it a tie. They keep fighting and regenerating until they both call it a day and go to the bar.
SHM
The Junon Cannon empowered with 1 Mako Reactor, is a city-buster(confirmed in Before Crisis). It was necessary the Junon Cannon/Sister Ray empowered with 8 Reactors to break Sephiroth's barrier.
So, you need to have 8 times the power to destroy a city, just to break his barrier and start the fight.
Does Albedo have that power? Can he blow-up 8 cities(the size of Midgar) in one shot, and still have strength to fight Sephiroth himself?
Pyron_Knight
It's not confirmed. It's a statement made by one character.
It would be confirmed if it happened.
So...Seph has a barrier. Yay. He can't attack Al through it. It be a stalemate if neither can attack the other directly.
SHM
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
It's not confirmed. It's a statement made by one character.
It would be confirmed if it happened.
And If we can't go by statements(not contradicted in the story) made by knowledgeable characters, than Kuja never destroyed a planet.
Statements not contradicted by the story are valid... Or they aren't.
Pick a side and stop contradicting yourself, Nikk.
Of course Sephiroth can attack through it.
He could use Telekinesis.
Yeah, I know Avalanche escaped it, but you have to remember they were 8 people. Not to mention Seph was using his mind to stop the movement of Holy.
So, if we ignore all the concentration he was using on Holy, he still can use his mind to stop the movements(and even crush parts of the body) of 1 person, using only 1/8 of his mental power.
Of course, if we add Holy to the equation, he needs even less than 1/8 to do that.
Sephiroth can easily kill a person(on Cloud's level) if he uses ALL of his mental power. I don't know if he could kill Albedo, but at least hurt him.
The other way to attack through the barrier, is using the Negative Lifestream. It's something connected to him, but not a physical connection. It wouldn't be inside the barrier with him.
Pyron_Knight
So not only do you suck at debating, now you're delusional.
Now, maybe this will help you acutally read what I said
It's not confirmed. It's a statement made by one character.
It would be confirmed if it happened.
Now, where in there did I say the statement wasn't allowed? Nowhere? KTHXBAI.
Prove he can use TK on anything outside the barrier.
So now he's making the barrier and has the Negative Lifestream?
This Composite Sephiroth?
SHM
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
So not only do you suck at debating, now you're delusional.
Now, maybe this will help you acutally read what I said
It's not confirmed. It's a statement made by one character.
It would be confirmed if it happened.
Now, where in there did I say the statement wasn't allowed? Nowhere? KTHXBAI.
I see it's very easy to piss you off. Calm down dude.
The statements of Mikoto and Amarant are confirmed in the game? Did we see Kuja destroying the surface of a planet, instead of only destroying Bran Bal? Nope.
Your logic is flawed. Pick a side and stop contradicting yourself.
From all the information we have, the barrier could only protect(or contain) physical objects or energy. Telekinesis is neither.
No, it's Sephiroth in his most powerful form ever. So yes, he have all his powers from the games, excluding KH.
Pyron_Knight
Originally posted by SHM
I see it's very easy to piss you off. Calm down dude.
Believe me, I'm not angry.
Ask burning thought. He's seen me angry.
This is just me being rude.
You again miss the point.
I did not say ANYTHING was confirmed.
That's the whole point of my original post you replied to.
Stop reading things into my posts and making up contradictions then.
So now he has Albedo in TK...what does he do?
The guy can't die even if you reduce his entire body to particles.
Well if it's strongest Sephiroth, why not use strongest Albedo?
Seems a bit unfair.
SHM
I'm going to sleep, so I didn't even read your post, and I will not continue arguing about this right now. But I remembered of a mistake I made, and will correct it:
SHM
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Believe me, I'm not angry.
Ask burning thought. He's seen me angry.
This is just me being rude.
If you say so...
If it's stated by a reliable source/character, and the information given is not contradicted at any moment in the story, then it's canon.
The writers of a story have many ways of presenting their ideas. And that includes, feats and statements. That's how things works. Deal with it.
By stating that Veld's argument is not valid, but Mikoto's and Amarant's are valid, you ARE contradicting yourself.
Actually, you are being an hypocrite.
And what Albedo can do to free himself or break his barrier?
See? I'm just showing this isn't a curbstomp in Albedo's favor, like you and your friends wanted to believe.
Actually, it isn't his strongest form being used here. It's his FFVII version, not AC. My mistake.
Ah, and:
Maybe in your opinion... But at least I respect the rules, Nikk.
I will not waste my time with a guy who shouldn't even be here anymore.
Welcome to my ignore list.
Pyron_Knight
Again, missed the point.
For the love of...............
I quote myself. READ THIS GODDAM TIME.
I did not say ANYTHING was confirmed.
Get it now?
Mikoto and Amarant's lines are NOT confirmed.
Neither is the city-busting statement.
Okay?
Damn.
If nothing Sephiroth can do will hurt Al...it is a curbstomp.
Testament Albedo also can teleport anywhere he pleases.
Still delusional.
I accept your concession though.
SHM
And he answered me! Even after I added him to my ignore list!
My god!
Burning thought
w8 a min? is this some sort of attack against someone on your ignore list? i think it is, which is far lower than them talking to someone who has ignored them....
I mean you know the point of ignoring someone is to...ye'kno...ignore them?
SHM
Originally posted by Burning thought
w8 a min? is this some sort of attack against someone on your ignore list? i think it is, which is far lower than them talking to someone who has ignored them....
I mean you know the point of ignoring someone is to...ye'kno...ignore them?
Well, I think that you distorting things to make him look like a victim, is low too.
And I wasn't attacking him, I simply don't understand the point of talking to a person you know is not listening.
Pyron_Knight
If I was on your Ignore List, how do you know I answered you?
I could have written anything.
Burning thought
Looks like a damn attack to me for sure, who talks to someone theyve ignored? prob to bait or spite them, its the sort of thing a guy does when he things everyone is on his side and tries to make the one he is talking about look like a fool, problem is ime not sure anyone was on your side in that joke, apart from Terry if hes online, but either way you dont ignore someone then speak to them again lol......
"w8s for Fascistcrusader to post something childish like "zomg ime on his size tooo!!!"
SHM
Originally posted by Burning thought
Looks like a damn attack to me for sure, who talks to someone theyve ignored? prob to bait or spite them, its the sort of thing a guy does when he things everyone is on his side and tries to make the one he is talking about look like a fool, problem is ime not sure anyone was on your side in that joke, apart from Terry if hes online, but either way you dont ignore someone then speak to them again lol......
"w8s for Fascistcrusader to post something childish like "zomg ime on his size tooo!!!"
Wrong again. A guy who answers to a person who ignored him, is clearly trying to make everyone who is reading the post agree with him. This is why he answered it, because even if I didn't read his arguments, other people did, and they could agree with him.
He isn't trying to make me agree with him anymore, he is just trying to make himself look good to everyone else. It's ridiculous.
Burning thought
you still should not of answered someone who is ignored by you lol, otherwise it just soudns like an attack but it doesnt matter
Pyron_Knight
lol SHM thinks I'm trying to make myself look good.
Kinda like fascist in the FF-v-WoW topic...you look better than him or SHM by just not being a moron.
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
Looks like a damn attack to me for sure, who talks to someone theyve ignored? prob to bait or spite them, its the sort of thing a guy does when he things everyone is on his side and tries to make the one he is talking about look like a fool, problem is ime not sure anyone was on your side in that joke, apart from Terry if hes online, but either way you dont ignore someone then speak to them again lol......
"w8s for Fascistcrusader to post something childish like "zomg ime on his size tooo!!!"
Wow, how many times do you bait me into threads i haven't even replied to? Like honestly, i keep hearing my name out of you for some reason, jee i wonder why.. just get over it BT.
Burning thought
Bait? not me....
how can you hear your name jsut because its typed in a thread?
Terryc250
Now you're just acting like a fool, you obviously know what I mean, I don't even know why you're denying it.
Burning thought
no, you simply must be poking around hoping to find your name, its obviously important to you to address it for some weird reason so why should i get over...what?
Terryc250
Uh.. no wtf are you talking about, I go to threads just hoping to find someone talking about me?
I simply READ THREADS, just like anyone else does..
Get over the fact that Kain gets his ass handed, and quit being a baby crying about it, and bashing me because I let it be known that Kain is far weaker then how you try to make him out to be.
Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Uh.. no wtf are you talking about, I go to threads just hoping to find someone talking about me?
I simply READ THREADS, just like anyone else does..
Get over the fact that Kain gets his ass handed, and quit being a baby crying about it, and bashing me because I let it be known that Kain is far weaker then how you try to make him out to be.
lol.....he doesnt get handed thats the problem...
the only reason any debate with you carries on is because you ignore most points or use balance induced gameplay etc and titles like "boss" which cannot be used under any circumstances, theres no point in debating with you if constantly spam your same rubbish, most of them assumptions like power levels of remnants, sephiroth, speed levels, strength.....
you simply dont know who Kain is really, youve not played the games ,simple, if you could debate perhaps this could be resolved like me and V2D did, Utrigos, they can debate, you cannot, you just spam things, i may as well reply to your posts with simply a quote from my last post then you can quote yours and we can go on like that etc etc
Terryc250
Yes.. Kain does get handed to him, lots of people have played the LOK series, yet its only YOU who try to claim Kain is that powerful.
I don't ignore nothing, its funny how you mention i use gameplay when Kain has exactly 0 feats outside of gameplay, and you only use the "good" parts of gameplay and count it as Kains feats.
I don't use assumptions, i use logic and common sense, you can only resolve against people who take your word for it and believe your BS, if V2D didn't believe things you said and asked for proof, he would laugh his ass off
Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Yes.. Kain does get handed to him, lots of people have played the LOK series, yet its only YOU who try to claim Kain is that powerful. Kain beats a lot of these gauntlets and fights so easily.
I don't ignore nothing, its funny how you mention i use gameplay when Kain has exactly 0 feats outside of gameplay, and you only use the "good" parts of gameplay and count it as Kains feats.
I don't use assumptions, i use logic and common sense, you can only resolve against people who take your word for it and believe your BS, if V2D didn't believe things you said and asked for proof, he would laugh his ass off
who? Estacado who forgets half the story and gets things wrong, the only other person who i know has played it properly is Madmel and he agrees with mostly everything (I say mostly simply because i dont know if he agrees on everything, ive not asked him)
When? there are no parts in gameplay i use, I simply use his abilities which are not induced gameplay, their just abilities.
He always did ask for proof and always does now, this is not the only forum ime on. You use wild assumptions Terry, you call it logic but its no more logic than a bananna is heavy because a flea cant pick it up, its no real logic at all, like the holy thing and many others.
fascistcrusader
Wait a minute, PK is Nikkolas? He's a known pedophile, he needs to stay banned.
Terryc250
Madmel is the only person who plays and "understands" the story correctly because he's the only person who agrees with you right?
Everything Kain does IS gameplay, just because Kain is able to use spells on common grunts, yet fails to do it on tougher opponents, you claim that is just gameplay just to make the game harder, and now you claim he can do it to beings like Pyron.
It is logic, its not wild assumptions, if Holy is capable of destroying everything on the planet, and Sephiroths TK had the power to stop it, logically that tells you how powerful Sephiroths TK is.
If Loz is very fast, and Loz was just a weak remnant created by Sephiroth, Sephiroths being many folds superior, logically it tells you that Sephiroth is faster.
If you weren't blinded by your Kain fanboyism and your eagerness to try to put Sephiroth down, your common sense and logic would work.
Burning thought
not really, ive spoken with Estacado who does not agree with me and its obvious he doesnt know what hes talking about, same with a lot of guys who even claim to have played the games, wheras Madmel actually knows story elements.
its not tougher opponents tho thats the problem, their just bosses, balance etc, gameplay, Pyron has no soul protection, you fail because you think just because hes big it means hes harder to cast a spell on, rubbish, infact it would be easier going by logic
no it doesnt, Holy is energy, particles, for all you know all hes doing is stopping the tiny particles, if you mix two harmless liquids togther they can make a extremely powerful one, for all you know Sephiroth TKing it isnt difficult at all, theres no logic in that, infact its worse because if TK has TK close to that, whats he doing with a sword? whats he doing infact? hell he could just tear off a chunk off the world and fly around on it using simply his TK, it doesnt make sense at all and the logic stinks as well.
ive got no Kain fanboyism, its simply actual knowledge on Kain.....and not ignoring powers just because his opponent is large or else, but then maybe youve never seen anything small beat something big before? oh yes, sephiroth beats weapons does he not? you say yourself FF characters beat big mosnters.
Pyron_Knight
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Wait a minute, PK is Nikkolas? He's a known pedophile, he needs to stay banned.
It's a shame I don't know who this Nikkolas is and SHM is just full of shit.
Pyron_Knight
He's just like other people who have accused me of being someone named Violent2Dope
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10332009&highlight=sock+userid%3A90732#post10332009
Such shameless accusations are tiresome.
Burning thought
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Sure you don't. You've done nothing but demonstrate a complete lack of common sense when it comes to any fights with Kain, especially fight in which he'd get his ass kicked. All of the justifications you've tried to use are pure gameplay elements, they don't exist in the story, and even if they did they wouldn't work on Kain's opponents because they only work on basic enemies.
Man, you sure have trouble comprehending logic, sport.
you dont and cant debate, shooo
I dont use gameplay elements, they dont work on bosses, balance, gameplay element, you fail....like in every thread youve posted in so far, you must be a very bored person to just get pwned on this site all the time and posting dribble
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
its not tougher opponents tho thats the problem, their just bosses, balance etc, gameplay, Pyron has no soul protection, you fail because you think just because hes big it means hes harder to cast a spell on, rubbish, infact it would be easier going by logic
When has Kain ever ripped out a soul in the story? When has Kain ever ripped out a soul from an opponent that wasn't a common grunt? Hell, when has Kain ever fought anyone even remotely close to Pyrons level? Kain has no feats.
... You're overthinking things, all we know about Holy is that its a powerful force caapable of destroying everything, it travelled continents in seconds, disintegrated meteor. You, starting to claim that Holy is some tiny harmless particles and that Sephiroth just stopping them from mixing together or someshit is just going overboard, it means you're trying to hard to downplay Sephiroths feat.
Sephiroth's sword isn't what makes him deadly, its his powers.. he used his sword in AC to melee with Cloud, he could've killed him with the negative lifestream, or TK, but as its been mentioned oh so many times, Sephiroth chose to fight Sephiroth with just melee, he chose to keep him alive to torment him as long as he could.
They haven't fought anyone who can grow many times larger then the planet, neither has Kain. Kain has never ripped out a soul in the actual LOK story, and in gameplay he was only capable of doing it to common grunts, to say Kain can do it to Pyron is far fetched.
Burning thought
He has the ability, its enough, you dont need to have a cutscene showing him doing it...
no, its not a feat, your logic is broken, simple...you cannot prove it was hard to hold just because its powerful, simple..the whole story would be broken if Sephiroth could TK like that, and the only evidence for it is your own delusional response to how powerful something is, TK is simply holding force, using physical force, Energy is not physical like TK is, and power of something does not determine difficult to hold
Just because he can be big means everything? not really, he could do it to humans , vamps, demons, the onyl things he couldnt do it to were, hey...humans WITH boss over the top of their head, your gameplay logic is broken, Pyron is not much more than a big bag of cosmic energy WITHOUT any soul protecting
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
He has the ability, its enough, you dont need to have a cutscene showing him doing it...
Actually the ability is optional, in the canon storyline he may not even have it, since he doesnt have it in any of the other games.
Powerful energy powerful enough to destroy everything IS hard to hold, do you think a detonated Nuke would be hard to hold?
How would the whole story be broken? Throughout the game they say how powerful Sephiroths willpower is, even the creators say it.
Yeah the vamps and demons are not much stronger then the humans, Pyron is a planetary threat, something Kain cant even dream of becoming, he would literally flick Kain into nothing.
If spirit death can simply kill anyone, it would be his strongest spell, but is it? No, "Lightning" is.
fascistcrusader
Gameplay elements are the only thing you use, Jr. The gameplay element is the ability itself, not just the fact that it doesn't work on bosses. Face it, you don't use pure storyline because you know that without gameplay mechanic Kain is pathetic, and even with gameplay mechanics you have to pick and choose to try to give Kain an advantage. You're a hopeless fanboy.
Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Actually the ability is optional, in the canon storyline he may not even have it, since he doesnt have it in any of the other games.
Powerful energy powerful enough to destroy everything IS hard to hold, do you think a detonated Nuke would be hard to hold?
How would the whole story be broken? Throughout the game they say how powerful Sephiroths willpower is, even the creators say it.
Yeah the vamps and demons are not much stronger then the humans, Pyron is a planetary threat, something Kain cant even dream of becoming, he would literally flick Kain into nothing.
If spirit death can simply kill anyone, it would be his strongest spell, but is it? No, "Lightning" is.
Him not having it in other games does not mean he never had it, if he has it in one game its enough.
no its not, and your saying Sephiroth can hold a nuke blast now? lmao.....Holy is a ball of compact energy, simple, a Nuke is completly diffrent in the fact first its physical blast wave once it explodes fires out like a ring, then the imolating destruction, it comes out in waves, Holy is basically just the bomb before it goes off, its not exploding or anything or damaging anything if its being held by a non material force.
Vamps/demons are by far a worse threat than humans lol, have you even seen them?
Then again you say Sephiroth is planetary threat but he gets beaten on by an blonde emo with an oversized sword, go figuire, Pyron being a threat to a planet means nothing if someone can just rip out his soul, if Galactus had all his powers taken away but only had his power to manip souls (i think he has that) then he would still completly and utterly stomp Pyron who has nothing impressive he can do before being destroyed, infact hes just a physical being, someone uses some magic on him, especially something like soul detroying and he has no defense
who says that? lightning is the most powerful? it can kill anyone, it rips out your soul, obviously you dont understand what this could mean, although in LOK lightning is the most powerful technically because although soul rip takes your soul, Kain can only do it to one at a time, Kains lightning spell destroys all the enemies around kain with lightning that blasts all the enemies on the screen to pieces.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Gameplay elements are the only thing you use, Jr. The gameplay element is the ability itself, not just the fact that it doesn't work on bosses. Face it, you don't use pure storyline because you know that without gameplay mechanic Kain is pathetic, and even with gameplay mechanics you have to pick and choose to try to give Kain an advantage. You're a hopeless fanboy.
the ability itself is not the mechanic, the ability is 100% viable, just like any ability in games
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought Him not having it in other games does not mean he never had it, if he has it in one game its enough.
Its optional its never stated if he actually gets the spell in the canon storyline, however; since he doesn't have it, cant use it, never mentions it in any of the other LOK games, its more then likely he didn't have it.
Holy is not a "ball" of compact energy, its pure destructive energy that doesnt fade away like nuclear energy does, Holy is a giant wave of energy just as a detonated Nuke is, the only difference is Holy is able to be controlled and can have a target, whereas a nuke's energy just goes astray blasting in all directions.
There is no energy when a nuke isn't detonated, the energy releases once it is detonated, Holy is pure destructive energy.
Its called PIS, Galactus has lost to Thor while he was starving and weak, Sephiroth lost to Cloud when he didn't use any of his powers and toyed around(but still was capable of killing him)
Too bad on a KMC battle, PIS isn't induced, therefore Kain gets a stomping from everyone.
It just is, you've played the game you should know, again, show Kain ripping out a soul from someone even worthy of mentioning, then you can debate it working against higher tier opponents.
Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Its optional its never stated if he actually gets the spell in the canon storyline, however; since he doesn't have it, cant use it, never mentions it in any of the other LOK games, its more then likely he didn't have it.
Holy is not a "ball" of compact energy, its pure destructive energy that doesnt fade away like nuclear energy does, Holy is a giant wave of energy just as a detonated Nuke is, the only difference is Holy is able to be controlled and can have a target, whereas a nuke's energy just goes astray blasting in all directions.
There is no energy when a nuke isn't detonated, the energy releases once it is detonated, Holy is pure destructive energy.
Its called PIS, Galactus has lost to Thor while he was starving and weak, Sephiroth lost to Cloud when he didn't use any of his powers and toyed around(but still was capable of killing him)
Too bad on a KMC battle, PIS isn't induced, therefore Kain gets a stomping from everyone.
It just is, you've played the game you should know, again, show Kain ripping out a soul from someone even worthy of mentioning, then you can debate it working against higher tier opponents.
A lot of things are optional, that doesnt mean they dont excist, especialyl if their spells, half of Kratos' powers are optional, i can go through the game, miss out a few objects, miss out on all the upgrades and not get anything of high power, but hey....the abilities are debated, why? because its canon, you just dont seem to understand it. Unless ofc your saying if you debated Kratos you would say his abilites are not canon because he does not use them in cutscenes? damn..seems kratos just has his blades of Athena/chaos....
Its basically a ball, thats all it looks like to me of energy, sephiroth uses a force that cannot even "feel" the destructive power of the blast becaue hes doing it with his mind, just like any Tker could, hes not fighting destructive power by Tking it, he is simply containing it but its not comparable to a nuke blast which is diffrent.
No you miss the point, before its detonated the Nuke is not dangerous, Holy is not dangerous if its just being held by TK, its not using any power, and it cant damage anything with this power you say it has either, thus, its easy to TK.
re-read what i said, you lost the point
stomping by everyone except.....most of DS cast characters, DMC, many FF characters like Sephiroth, oh didnt you say he was the most powerful? damn...okie the FF universe is basically at Kains feet if Sephiroth is the best theyve got, did i miss anyone? prob he can take most enemies in gaming.
No you have to prove "higher tier" first, thats a fallacy right there because technically if Kains soul rip can just rip out your soul and the opponent just happens to be Pyron, and it kills him, then so much for his "higher tier" YOU and lovers of Pyron give him, your the one listing the tiers here not me, Kain is a higher tier by far to pyron because Kain can one hit him with spirit wrack or death....preferably wrack its faster in the fatc its not a projectile. You have to prove Pyron would be able to resist something that destroys your soul.
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
A lot of things are optional, that doesnt mean they dont excist, especialyl if their spells, half of Kratos' powers are optional, i can go through the game, miss out a few objects, miss out on all the upgrades and not get anything of high power, but hey....the abilities are debated, why? because its canon, you just dont seem to understand it. Unless ofc your saying if you debated Kratos you would say his abilites are not canon because he does not use them in cutscenes? damn..seems kratos just has his blades of Athena/chaos....
I'm not saying everything optional is uncanon, for example: Cloud has a bunch of Limit breaks like blade beam, etc; they are infact optional, HOWEVER; in AC you clearly see him using it which means in the actual canon storyline Cloud DOES obtain it, but if theres an optional magic in game1, then in game2, game3, game4, and game5 that magic was unheard of again, and the character never displayed using it ever, chances are, that magic was uncanon to the story, and the character never really got the magic in the canon storyline.
Its not a ball.. wtf are you mistaking it for meteor or something? Its a big WAVE of energy, it can be compared to the energy output of a nuke, both are powerful energies capable of severe destruction, Aeris summoned Holy in the forgotten capitol(basically like detonating the nuke), Sephiroth stopped the movement of Holy with his willpower, its a big feat. If he had weak willpower, Holy would have simply broke out of it like nothing; however like the statement by the creators themselves, Sephiroths willpower is EXTREMELY POWERFUL, theres nothing stronger, nothing above it.
... Kain is basically like a street leveler, the guy can't even fly.. he has to hop around and climb things to get places, to be honest, Wolverine would probably even beat him.
Umm.. Kain has only "ripped" out souls from common grunts, and thats just in gameplay, he's never done it in the canon storyline, to any opponents even worth mentioning, he's never even used it or is able to use it in LOK: SR , LOK: SR2 , BO2:LOK , or Defiance.
Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
I'm not saying everything optional is uncanon, for example: Cloud has a bunch of Limit breaks like blade beam, etc; they are infact optional, HOWEVER; in AC you clearly see him using it which means in the actual canon storyline Cloud DOES obtain it, but if theres an optional magic in game1, then in game2, game3, game4, and game5 that magic was unheard of again, and the character never displayed using it ever, chances are, that magic was uncanon to the story, and the character never really got the magic in the canon storyline.
Its not a ball.. wtf are you mistaking it for meteor or something? Its a big WAVE of energy, it can be compared to the energy output of a nuke, both are powerful energies capable of severe destruction, Aeris summoned Holy in the forgotten capitol(basically like detonating the nuke), Sephiroth stopped the movement of Holy with his willpower, its a big feat. If he had weak willpower, Holy would have simply broke out of it like nothing; however like the statement by the creators themselves, Sephiroths willpower is EXTREMELY POWERFUL, theres nothing stronger, nothing above it.
... Kain is basically like a street leveler, the guy can't even fly.. he has to hop around and climb things to get places, to be honest, Wolverine would probably even beat him.
Umm.. Kain has only "ripped" out souls from common grunts, and thats just in gameplay, he's never done it in the canon storyline, to any opponents even worth mentioning, he's never even used it or is able to use it in LOK: SR , LOK: SR2 , BO2:LOK , or Defiance.
No theres no chances, thats the problem your inventing that rule yourself, chances are the developers just decided not to have the same abilities in every game and wanted players to try new ones, simple.
show me it again, i rememebr thinking of it as some kind of ball, not a blast like a nuke....
lol the guy cant even fly, he can float and teleport, thats all he needs to get places, Sephiroth takes boats and walks half the time, flying prob knocks him out completly, he prob needs a long sleep afterwards lol...
With what? wolverine is not the best example, he would knock cloud and Sephiroth with ease as well for the same reasons, prob is, Kain just soul destroys him.
no, your calling htem common grunts, thats your words not any games or official info, i could call Sephiroth just some shemale who gets pwend by an emo, but you wouldnt, in the game they are vampires, humans, demons, theres no enemy Kain technically cannot use it against apart from in-game (game mechanic) he cannot use it on those with the title of "boss" (also a game mechanic). YOU have to prove a character can defend from having its soul destroyed, your argument of "zomg pyronz is biggerror!!! he cannot possibly be defeateds!!!" is not worth a penny, a dime, or even a yen, barely a German Mark from the depression.
your list of games does not mean anything either ,see my first point. And you dont see a lot of things in SR and SR 2, he doesnt use many abilities at all, especially since you dont play as him so thats moot, BO 2 its young kain after being defeated, lost his reaver and his memory, Defiance Kain should have a lot of powers like teleport and super jumping under player control but in the game you see Kain teleport in a movie and players can only turn into bats or jump long distances at special points unlike in BO 2, all these ability options are gameplay, thing is none of it means he has lost the old powers.
fascistcrusader
he ability itself is not the mechanic, the ability is 100% viable, just like any ability in games
I'm afraid it isn't champ. Not only is it never shown outside of gameplay, it isn't even in all of the LoK games. That proves it to be a gameplay mechanic, nothing more. When you can show me a storyline cutscene with these abilities then they'll be viable, but until then stop trying to say that gameplay is canon, ok sport.
Burning thought
that proves nothing apart from how your a bad debator, ability can never be a gameplay mechanic, they dont have to have a cutscene to be canon, infact some old games could not have cutscenes, does that make every old game uncanon? you dont have a clue
fascistcrusader
I'm afraid its you who doesn't have a clue. Take Lucasarts for example, they list all gameplay feats, that means abilities too, sport, as non canon. Why is this? Because gameplay elements are not part of the story. Its the same with LoK, if it isn't features outside of gameplay, it doesn't exist.
Here's another example, in FF VII Cloud and the rest can be equipped with new weapons, and we see them in battle. However, outside of battle we only see them with their original weapons, and AC's prologue confirms than other than Vincent having Cerberus, they all only used their original weapons. Once again, things that are only in gameplay aren't canon, LoK isn't above logic.
Learn to debate, Jr. You're making yourself look really silly.
Burning thought
false, if Lucasarts list something then its for them only to list, they do not rule all other fiction.
Nothing confirms them not being canon, all those things you listed have confirmation which is why you fail, Kains spells and abilities are simply what he gains, and in truth they are not optional either.
fascistcrusader
Getting new weapons in FF VII and abilities in Star Wars games aren't optional either. You gain new things all the time. Kain's abilities are pure gameplay, please, come back when you can make sense and stop being a ridiculous fanboy.
Burning thought
Come back when you can debate, it is irrelevent the confirmed uncaonon elements are to the unconfirmed uncanon elements of LOK, Kain gains his powers, there is no rule they have to feature in a cutscene to excist.
fascistcrusader
Yes, I'm afraid that if something is only in gameplay of a single game, it is merely a mechanic of that game. Wow, you fanboys really need professional help., you're starting to blur the lines between reality and your silly fantasy.
Burning thought
false ime afraid
Peach
Knock off the hostility.
fascistcrusader
Say its false all you want, but the fact remains that they're nothing but gameplay. You see champ, when logic is against your argument, you're wrong.
Burning thought
there is no logic, thats why its false you see
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
No theres no chances, thats the problem your inventing that rule yourself, chances are the developers just decided not to have the same abilities in every game and wanted players to try new ones, simple.
.. I'm not, its common knowledge that most optional crap arent ccanon to the storyline, especially if they never appear again in the next 4 games.
5:00
QCr1VvielKk
Its not a blasts like a nuke, however; a detonated nuke releases a destructive energy, and thats just what Holy is, destructive energy.
Uhh Sephiroth teleports as well, he can FLY, the thing is, he had a bunch of jenova parts of disguised as his body around the world, where Sephiroth HIMSELF was in the northern crator, moving them around his will.
Wolverine would dismember Kain into crap, Wolverine would beat Sephiroth and Cloud? Umm Seph and Cloud are ABOVE street leveler.. look at how they fight they basically like fly around skyscrapers chopping up everything in their path.
Can't say the same for Kain, he's never demonstrated any speed feats, strength feats, or any feats for that matter.
They're the common enemies of the game, they are like the random monsters you fight in FF, just because the magic Death works on those random monsters, would they work again the tougher opponents? No. Same thing for Kain skill, it only works against the common weak enemy, but does it work against the tougher opponents? No, would it work against Pyron? No, just no.
ohh so Kain loses his memory? So even IF the optional spells were canon to the story (most likely not) Kain wouldn't have them anyway, yeah if it shows Kain having teleport, then he can teleport, however he's had 4 other games from BO1 to show he's had any of those optional spells, he's had opportunities to use them if he had them, but nope.. hes never demonstrated that he's capable.
fascistcrusader
Lets look at it for a second, champ.
Logic: Its only in the gameplay of one game in the series, not seen, heard or mentioned anywhere else in the series. Common sense tells us that gameplay =/= story, in any game or series.
Your "logic: ZOMG!!!11 Kain is teh best! He has all dese feets and dey are kanon!!!!111
Terryc250
Yeah, and Cloud should go around busting out Death materia on everyone, now he's a god killer! Pyron will fall before Clouds Death materia
Burning thought
right its not like a nukes blast then, i rest my case...also can you show me where it states holy can destroy the planet? your case either way is broken, nothing there would mean Holy is hard to stop, its a wave of energy then, not a ball, a small wave spread of energy in comparison to a nukes massive all directonal blast, the wave is simply stopped by Sephiroths force, easy, anyone with TK would be able to do that unless they can only move big things like blocks and such, but then there still nothing showing Holy is hard to hold......show me Sephiroth stopping it please.
Now your logic is basically dead as your fanboyism for FF rots every ounce of logic, as if Kain wouldnt just mist and escape if he even bothered to, id be surprised if Wolverine could even cut Kain, hes not got the strength of 30+ tons. what? lmao, well according to you they are, according to me Kain is far above Sephiroth and cloud and would take them double time with ease.
Have you used death on tougher monsters? does death say on it in confirmation it doesnt, or does it give a reason why? like the tougher ones are bosses, because you kno thats balance, as in..gameplay
Pyron loses his soul, hes dead, like anyone else.....hes got no defence unforatley his size doesnt give him any defence. going by your logic if a human is so much bigger than a germ, massively bigger...we are immune and cannot be harmed by any germs? riiiggghhhttt
no he loses his memory at the beginning of BO 2, he regains it thanks to the help of the Cabal telling him what happened, then you have to take into account this is not BO 2 kain were debating, this is top of the line Elder Kain, who has had both memory lines in his memory, so Elder Kain would still remember, also technically, the spells are not optional. Sephiroth and many other characters in Fiction have oppertunities, they dont always use it and the makers of the game dont always want them to....
but anyway:
Originally posted by Terryc250
No one suddenly loses all their abilities without any reason, he doesn't use anything in AC because he chose not to, does that mean he doesn't have it? No.
couldnt agree more durlaugh thanks for clearing this all up
Originally posted by Terryc250
Yeah, and Cloud should go around busting out Death materia on everyone, now he's a god killer! Pyron will fall before Clouds Death materia
god killer? well sure, god is just a title, Kain is also a God, since he has the title, although if death is like most materia, its not specific to Cloud, and so you would have to add it to him, but sure if it kills anything then Pyron waiting around (FF spells are so slow) then he is going to die depending ofc on how it works, Sin harvest for example is to do with sins, a sinless being will not be harmed.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Your "logic: ZOMG!!!11 Kain is teh best! He has all dese feets and dey are kanon!!!!111
your the one who is saying that sport not me
"w8s for another post to pwn again"
JerseyMage
I agree with burning thought that Kane should be granted his soul-stealing attack. Heres my question to him: If Sephiroth doesnt have a soul, what other attacks could Kane use to defeat him?
The Holy feat isn't very detailed in the FFVII story, there are reasons to think the destruction caused by Holy in the ending sequence isn't the same as when its inert deep in the planet. One reason could be that Holy has lots of what is called in physics "potential energy" like a ball on a hill, rather than kinetic energy. In light of this, I would be skeptical about this particular feat of Sephiroth's. What other feats does he have that indicate he could defeat Kane?
Burning thought
If Sephiroth has no soul then Kain should be easily able to use Spirit wrack and possess Sephiroths body, then leave the body, making it dissipate, other things Kain could do include varied sword attacks, teh reaver is incredibly powerful blade, meaning Sephiroth would certainyl have a harder time against it than most FF swords ive seen thats for sure especially the Buster, if you belive Kain is blitzable by sephiroth (even tho he has no Blitzability from shown evidence, just heightened speed) then Kain can use his own TK to disable sephiroth OR Kain could use his time reaver to slow time, that means Sephiroth is pretty much destroyed from the get go because he wont be able to barely move as he is slowed in time, the reaver has a range to the area it can slow time so Kain could teleport next to sephiroth to effect him OR simply w8 for Sephiroth to attempt this "blitz" and fall into the time area...one frozen/slowed then there are so many ways Kain could win from using his blade to freezeing Sephiroth completly in time with incapaciate.
its "kain" but yes as i said, theres nothing to suggest through any logic that Holy is a feat and should not be used, its inconclusive, its like me saying something everyone else thinks is ridiculous but still using it as a feat for kain even if it has no real proof or proper logic, if Terry can use logic the likes of which allow Sephiroth TK to control holy and that he belives holy is hard to hold then i should be just as able to use the concepts Kain has power over.
JerseyMage
Judging by the case you gave here, Kain could beat Sephiroth. I recall Sephiroth having the ability to become intangible, so I will assume Kain's weapons could harm an intangible opponent. Another objection might be that Sephiroth's own TK would allow him to speedblitz Kain, but I don't see why Kain's own TK couldnt be applied in at least as many situations as Sephiroth's.
Burning thought
The only time ive seen sephiroth be intangible was an incredibly slow moving through a floor, and yes Kain damages ghosts, wraiths, the reaver eats souls and it can hit the Elder God, if it can hit the Elder God who is half sepctoral immaterial being, ethereal and half not on the material reality anyway then the reaver is likely to hit sephiroth if not definatley.
Well Kain can teleport fairly quickly out of TK to escape attacks so that would reduce any effectiveness of a Blitz, same with the fact Kain can become mist, so Kain can technically become intangible and would be nigh untouchable anyway to Sephiroth if he becomes mist/teleports, Kain even has Pyrokinesis to set flammable objects alight, if the wort comes to the worst he could just burn off Sephiroths clothes and make him dance with sword slashes lawlz, Kain would just TK sephiroths sword away from him also.
JerseyMage
I agree that teleporting would avoid the TK, Sephiroth hasn't demonstrated a sufficient battle awareness to be able to TK continuously and prevent a counterattack from his opponent, after a successful evasion. Kain would take the match.
The next order of business, perhaps for another thread, would be establishing that Sephiroth would not be able to defeat Kain in any percentage of their matches. That would be harder because we would have to count possible mistakes made by Kain.
IMO we have established that Sephiroth is on a level of power no greater than Kain. No doubt FF fanboys will find this counterintuitive, but thats logic.
Burning thought
good point as this is not a Kain VS thread, although ime not sure mistakes usually come into things, if mistakes and faults in the character were used then Sephiroth would lose 100% because it is likely he will constantly overestimate himself, underestimate his opponent AND add arrogence to this
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
right its not like a nukes blast then, i rest my case...also can you show me where it states holy can destroy the planet? your case either way is broken, nothing there would mean Holy is hard to stop, its a wave of energy then, not a ball, a small wave spread of energy in comparison to a nukes massive all directonal blast, the wave is simply stopped by Sephiroths force, easy, anyone with TK would be able to do that unless they can only move big things like blocks and such, but then there still nothing showing Holy is hard to hold......show me Sephiroth stopping it please.
By Bugenhagons words, the thing about Nukes is that the energy fades away, Holy is permanant energy, that "small wave" was the size of the biggest city on the planet. Holy is a destructive energy, with enough force to destroy everything, common sense and logic says its difficult to hold.
rofl, your still tryign to push that stupid Kain can survive 30 ton hits crap? Yeah and Cloud can survive 60 tons ontop of him, but obviously it didn't matter to Sephiroth sword now did it? According to you, Kain is above Jedah, Pyron, Sephirotyh, Dante, Hyubasa at the same time rofl, does that make it true? Haha yeah right.
Wolverine WOULD beat Kain, Kain is not fast or anything, Wolverine decapitates him.
Works on all monsters, but doesn't work on tough opponents like bosses, but according to you thats just "gameplay".
Spirit Death is an optional spell,
Has he ever used it in canon? No.
Has he ever used it outside of gameplay? No.
Has he ever used it on anyone but a common grunt? No.
Does it work on tougher opponents in the game? No.
Would it work on Pyron? No.
Has the spell ever appeared again after BO1? No.
Well it seems like he hasn't remembered his spells, because its never heard of again after BO1, either they weren't canon in the first place, or the creators retconned them.
Thing is, its actually PROVEN canon that Sephiroth has power over the NL, not only was it part of the canon storyline, it was stated by the creators themselves, and not only that, Sephiroth even summoned it in AC.
See the difference?
Yeah and you still haven't proven that Kain is the only vampire capable of learning the spells.
Sin Harvest has nothing to do with Sins, Sin Harvest is actually Heartless Angel, it just brings you to the brink of death, now are we going to start saying that Sephiroth can do it on Pyron? No, its a gameplay move just like spirit death is.. it was never done in the canon storyline.
Terryc250
Originally posted by JerseyMage
I agree with burning thought that Kane should be granted his soul-stealing attack. Heres my question to him: If Sephiroth doesnt have a soul, what other attacks could Kane use to defeat him?
The Holy feat isn't very detailed in the FFVII story, there are reasons to think the destruction caused by Holy in the ending sequence isn't the same as when its inert deep in the planet. One reason could be that Holy has lots of what is called in physics "potential energy" like a ball on a hill, rather than kinetic energy. In light of this, I would be skeptical about this particular feat of Sephiroth's. What other feats does he have that indicate he could defeat Kane?
That Soul stealing attack was strictly gameplay, it was an optional spell, it only worked on common grunts, was never mentioned in in canon, never done in canon, never heard of again after BO1, its a gameplay move just like supernova, and heartless angel was.
Holy is the antithesis of Meteor, its atleast as powerful as Meteor is, Bugenhagon said it could even end humanity as it is, its a powerful wave of energy with enough force to disintegrate meteor, Sephiroths willpower stopped it in its tracks, even the creator praises Sephiroths willpower as being "extremely powerful, nothing stronger, nothing above it", not only did he stop Holy, he held 8 people at the same time in the air with his will while torturing them, in AC he brought down the top of the entire shinra building with a thought.
In AC Sephiroth has the power of the negative lifestream, the lifestream is source of all power, magic, energy, life, etc on the entire planet, Sephiroth took control by tainting the lifestream with J-cells, creating a plague, he even created 3 remnants, who have power to rival Kain himself, Sephiroth is far superior to Kain.
Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
By Bugenhagons words, the thing about Nukes is that the energy fades away, Holy is permanant energy, that "small wave" was the size of the biggest city on the planet. Holy is a destructive energy, with enough force to destroy everything, common sense and logic says its difficult to hold.
rofl, your still tryign to push that stupid Kain can survive 30 ton hits crap? Yeah and Cloud can survive 60 tons ontop of him, but obviously it didn't matter to Sephiroth sword now did it? According to you, Kain is above Jedah, Pyron, Sephirotyh, Dante, Hyubasa at the same time rofl, does that make it true? Haha yeah right.
Wolverine WOULD beat Kain, Kain is not fast or anything, Wolverine decapitates him.
Works on all monsters, but doesn't work on tough opponents like bosses, but according to you thats just "gameplay".
Spirit Death is an optional spell,
Has he ever used it in canon? No.
Has he ever used it outside of gameplay? No.
Has he ever used it on anyone but a common grunt? No.
Does it work on tougher opponents in the game? No.
Would it work on Pyron? No.
Has the spell ever appeared again after BO1? No.
Well it seems like he hasn't remembered his spells, because its never heard of again after BO1, either they weren't canon in the first place, or the creators retconned them.
Thing is, its actually PROVEN canon that Sephiroth has power over the NL, not only was it part of the canon storyline, it was stated by the creators themselves, and not only that, Sephiroth even summoned it in AC.
See the difference?
Yeah and you still haven't proven that Kain is the only vampire capable of learning the spells.
Sin Harvest has nothing to do with Sins, Sin Harvest is actually Heartless Angel, it just brings you to the brink of death, now are we going to start saying that Sephiroth can do it on Pyron? No, its a gameplay move just like spirit death is.. it was never done in the canon storyline.
NO it doesnt, your broken logic does, theres no logic in thinking just because something is powerful its hard ot hold, theres no logic in that simple
Well sure, because Kain has abilities that allow him to both control and use most of them against their own team, has a resurrection and has many abilities to wreck them all, Sephiroth nor most other gaming icons do not.
Wolverine decapitates Sephiroth while his fanboys go on about unseen speed feats, broken logic AND to make sephiroth even more powerful he can be charging one of his one hour spells
its about 40 tons actually, likely more and no, your using balance induced gameplay, what Raziel was manipulating is a static piece that is not affected by balance and such (I dont know why i repeat myself over and over, you dont even read my posts most likely, ive said this before and youve never refuted it)
well yeh. show me when "Boss" is said in canon game....please point out where the term "bosses" over a characters head is canon, i mean honestly your falling further down your bottomless pit, especially since half the bosses are humans.
Has he spoken about it in canon? yes, just like most cutscenes characters dont ALWAYS use the ability, some speak of it, its in the script, its canon.
is it optional? no (no more than half of fictonal games items characters gain in story games like Kratos' spells, Dantes abilities...their all canon)
Has he used it on Demons, vampires AND humans to show a broad range of targets? Yes
Does it unbalance gameplay by allowing Bosses to be beaten in one shot? No, that would take ALL challenge away from the game and is unbalancing, gameplay ofc.
Has the spell ever been canonically or officially dismissed? no.....
Is Terry losing it because of his holds on constant gamepaly mechanics? Yes
OR the developers simply did not want Kain to be using god knows how many abilities, knew it would be confusing for new poeple in the franchise and as well as more than 100 other reasons that beat down the likeliness of it being retconned, a character doesnt have to have an ability in every game for it to excist, same with items although spells are more important in this rule, you cant just put them away or make them disapear.
hasnt remembered...riiiiiigggghhhhttt, maybe Sephiroth couldnt remember any of his powers during AC then...shame
NL is only in one piece of fiction from what ive seen, AC, and ive sitll not been shown how its apart of him and is default to him in every debate.
Nobody proven that Dante is the only one capable of using half of his items and gained powers, same with Kratos' spells, the fact is nobody has to Terry, the characters who gain the power are the only ones who can use it unless another character in the fiction uses it.
brink of death under complete gameplay however, theres no logic or info on it making it a complete gameplay move. Although technically he could never cast anything on Pyron, Pyron is too fast for those slow casting spells.
Originally posted by Terryc250
That Soul stealing attack was strictly gameplay, it was an optional spell, it only worked on common grunts, was never mentioned in in canon, never done in canon, never heard of again after BO1, its a gameplay move just like supernova, and heartless angel was.
Holy is the antithesis of Meteor, its atleast as powerful as Meteor is, Bugenhagon said it could even end humanity as it is, its a powerful wave of energy with enough force to disintegrate meteor, Sephiroths willpower stopped it in its tracks, even the creator praises Sephiroths willpower as being "extremely powerful, nothing stronger, nothing above it", not only did he stop Holy, he held 8 people at the same time in the air with his will while torturing them, in AC he brought down the top of the entire shinra building with a thought.
In AC Sephiroth has the power of the negative lifestream, the lifestream is source of all power, magic, energy, life, etc on the entire planet, Sephiroth took control by tainting the lifestream with J-cells, creating a plague, he even created 3 remnants, who have power to rival Kain himself, Sephiroth is far superior to Kain.
It worked on all "types" of spieces in the game, from Demon, vampire and human..... it was no more optional than many in fiction. Supernova and Heartless angel were never explained, show me where those moves are spoken off in detail by the characters, if it is then its canon, otherwise their just uncanon moves, but problem with Supernova and Heartless angel are that they are ALL gameplay, nothing on them to use them outside of it.
stopped it yes, unforatley thats nothing said for his TK, its destructive power is not connected to this, stop blowing out hot air. Same as i said for Holy, this is not real, the Shinra building by the video alone does not show him using any TK, he can just see it is falling off, anyone, even human would know if something as massive as the top of a building was going to drop, or would you be completly oblivious? (wouldnt surprise me), until you show another source, more official actually saying he did it other than your little assumptions.
lmao why do you lie constantly? your fanboyism says even 3 remants somehow do it? LMAO! your a joke Terry, not as much as FC but hell your not a funny one really, i laugh out of pity tbh, Kain would take on Sephiroth, Cloud the remnants and prob more besides with ease, oh and dont forget, the old NL is not the whole lifestream chuck.
JerseyMage
Terry,
You say that Kain's soulstealing move is a game-play move like heartless angel and supernova. That doesn't trouble me, Sephiroth has access to his gameplay moves and Kain to his; thats a fair situation.
When I spoke of Sephiroth, I was thinking of his one-winged angel form. I wasn't considering his AC aspects, so its possible that the FFVII Sephiroth possessed powers only demonstrated in AC, or even performed new feats. In light of this, I'll hear your case for AC Sephiroth, and retract my earlier statement:
"IMO we have established that Sephiroth is on a level of power no greater than Kain."
Finally, I am still skeptical about the holy feat. Could you explain, using evidence, how the events in the game imply he was demonstrating a high level of TK powers?
Pyron_Knight
My recent thread inspired me to bump this.
1st round, Seph can't put Albedo down at all.
2nd round: Same as above but now Albedo can shrug off everything Sephiroth can do and kill him easily.
leonheartmm
1. albedo, seph cant damage him.
2. seph is an ant
Zack Fair
WTF were they discussing Kain?
Burning thought
Terry has to bring Kain up into every debate we have....
although ime glad you resurrected this thread, it shows one of the many times i destroyed Terry and his baseless arguments.
leonheartmm
^ofcourse, everything you said can be applied to you too.
niduin
well from what i know albedo isnt as strong as seph BUT all i have seen is the 2 vids on the first page, and also there is no way that seph could kill him from what i have seen
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
Terry has to bring Kain up into every debate we have....
although ime glad you resurrected this thread, it shows one of the many times i destroyed Terry and his baseless arguments.
Wow I go on vacation for a couple months, and I come back and visit this forum and you still chant my name in your posts! That's hilarious!
You're the only person on this board who thinks you "destroy" anything, everything I state is all facts and logic. Everything you mutter is all fanboyism, everyone on this board knows that because it's so true. I mean come on, just look in my profile, that's enough evidence for anyone.
leonheartmm
actually, albedo is as VERY strong, his ether drives are extremely potent, and he own his own, very powerful E.S. even without his E.S. he has anti udo, red dragon waves{not nearly as powerful as rubedo, but still very strong} which are basically anti particles to god and existance. his MAIN power however, revolves around his urtv immortality where even the umn phase transfer cannon of proto omega cudnt kill him. in testament form, he is a god beyond the laws of the universe and no1 in final fantasy 7 cud touch him.
Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Wow I go on vacation for a couple months, and I come back and visit this forum and you still chant my name in your posts! That's hilarious!
You're the only person on this board who thinks you "destroy" anything, everything I state is all facts and logic. Everything you mutter is all fanboyism, everyone on this board knows that because it's so true. I mean come on, just look in my profile, that's enough evidence for anyone.
lol most of them are simply plays on words that if you actually visited the threads themselves, most if not all of your rubbish are discounted are useless, my profile says far more legit appearances of your tactless nonsense. And yes, "everyone" on this board, thats why ime on the same side as many in the Kuja vs Link and Dante thread and thats why Madmel disagrees with you as well....
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
lol most of them are simply plays on words that if you actually visited the threads themselves, most if not all of your rubbish are discounted are useless, my profile says far more legit appearances of your tactless nonsense. And yes, "everyone" on this board, thats why ime on the same side as many in the Kuja vs Link and Dante thread and thats why Madmel disagrees with you as well....
"Play on words" ? Uhh no, those are the crap you've actually said and meant. The junk in your profile is just out of desperation, shit that was misunderstood, and not even funny.
Madmel is probably the only one on the entire forum who agrees with your Kain fanboyism.
Burning thought
Your now blowing out crap and hot air, you simply just said "your stuff in your profile is not even funny and misunderstood!" yet youve got a quote in your profile of me saying Kain can TK GOW Kratos, actually thining I meant Kratos as the God of war, daft.....simply daft....as usual however...
Furthemore not even funny? youve just outlined your own chilidsh intent as some sort of joke? whos on your side in this Joke? SHM and a few trolls? youve just outlined a lack of professionalism wheas ime actually pointing out your ludicrous fanboyism and lack of debating skill youve just admitted to simply trying to be a funny Forum clown? good job...you make me laugh...besides now your trolling this thread like you usually do.
leonheartmm
enough kain bickering. this is seph vs albedo thread. stick to the topic or dont post people.
Burning thought
hes right for once....this is spite, Albedo would kill likely as many Sephiroths as he would want for some sport.
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
Your now blowing out crap and hot air, you simply just said "your stuff in your profile is not even funny and misunderstood!" yet youve got a quote in your profile of me saying Kain can TK GOW Kratos, actually thining I meant Kratos as the God of war, daft.....simply daft....as usual however...
Furthemore not even funny? youve just outlined your own chilidsh intent as some sort of joke? whos on your side in this Joke? SHM and a few trolls? youve just outlined a lack of professionalism wheas ime actually pointing out your ludicrous fanboyism and lack of debating skill youve just admitted to simply trying to be a funny Forum clown? good job...you make me laugh...besides now your trolling this thread like you usually do.
Alright, then how about I take that "misunderstood" line out of my profile and you take it out of yours? Oh, wait.. then you'll have absolutely nothing in yours, because besides that misunderstood line, the rest is just nonsense.
Yeah, the point of the stuff in my profile is for a laugh. Because fanboyism at that level really is quite funny. SHM and a few other trolls? Haha riiight.. I can say the same thing for madmel. Also, you're not one to call ANYONE a fanboy BT.
If you had any intelligence, or anything you would realize YOU were the one who called me out on this thread genius, as usual you can't keep my name out of your posts, because you're probably still mad that i've always put down this imaginary Kain of yours.
leonheartmm
so the point is proven that fanboys are funny. now can we get back on topic and not turn this into yet another kain vs thread?
Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Alright, then how about I take that "misunderstood" line out of my profile and you take it out of yours? Oh, wait.. then you'll have absolutely nothing in yours, because besides that misunderstood line, the rest is just nonsense.
Yeah, the point of the stuff in my profile is for a laugh. Because fanboyism at that level really is quite funny. SHM and a few other trolls? Haha riiight.. I can say the same thing for madmel. Also, you're not one to call ANYONE a fanboy BT.
If you had any intelligence, or anything you would realize YOU were the one who called me out on this thread genius, as usual you can't keep my name out of your posts, because you're probably still mad that i've always put down this imaginary Kain of yours.
I called nothing, how could I call anyone out if they were not even online, afaik you had left KMC and for good riddens but youve not been online for heavens knows how long. Stop blowing out hot air you could never back up any of your crap and almost all of it is your sad opinion that nobody gives a shit about.
Now stop trolling this thread please
Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
I called nothing, how could I call anyone out if they were not even online, afaik you had left KMC and for good riddens but youve not been online for heavens knows how long. Stop blowing out hot air you could never back up any of your crap and almost all of it is your sad opinion that nobody gives a shit about.
Now stop trolling this thread please
I've backed up everything i've claimed, unlike someone.
So then stop saying my name, and I'll stop replying to you.
XanatosForever
Well, one thing's for sure, Albedo has Sephiroth beat in the insanity department...I mean...the guy cut off his own damn head and laughed maniacally while doing so...that's hardcore. >.>
GrieverSquall
Not really sure... I bet my money on Albedo, he's really powerful.
Sin_Volvagia
1. Sephiroth can't kill Albedo. Albedo can regenerate any part of his body and is pretty much immortal. Seph might have a chance if he went Seraph but without it, he's done for.
2. A Testament is more powerful than anything in FF7. Albedo snaps his fingers and wipes out Sephiroth from existence.
GrieverSquall
1. True. But that doesn't mean he can't defeat Albedo which is a very different thing.
2. I believe Kevin is the most powerful, correct me if I'm wrong.
Either way, I think Albedo would win, I guess.
Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
1. True. But that doesn't mean he can't defeat Albedo which is a very different thing.
2. I believe Kevin is the most powerful, correct me if I'm wrong.
Either way, I think Albedo would win, I guess.
I wouldn't know. Kevin is really the only Testament that gets defeated. Virgil and Voyager get up after getting beaten in their boss battles. Both of them didn't show any signs of injury. Virgil was only put away by Febronia and Voyager was killed with a plot device. Albedo didn't fight at all in Xenosaga Ep.3.
Kevin actually got defeated and got called back by Wilhelm. Then again, KOS-MOS, at the time, had Mary's consiousness and merged with T'ELOS.
Luminatus
The Testaments are probably all equal in power. However if any one of them was the strongest, it be Kevin or Voyager. They've been Testaments the longest and Kevin being Wilhelm's right-hand man would seem to be the most powerful.
He also had the strongest ES. (according to itd description. It could cut anything in half. Beats the hell out of the others)
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