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no omega effect. can darkseid put an enraged black adam down?

Not unless he cops out with the avatar defense.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Not unless he cops out with the avatar defense. i think that black adam physically would be to much for darkseid. ds would put up a fight. but he couldnt hang with black adam, punch for punch. black adam really can hit hard.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Not unless he cops out with the avatar defense. Hahahah! Funny!

Black Adam: Hey, didn't I kick your ass last week?
Darkseid: No! That was my avatar! See! He's right here!
Darkseid Avatar: Hi...

All I meant was that Darkseid would crumble under an assault from a torqued off Black Adam.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
All I meant was that Darkseid would crumble under an assault from a torqued off Black Adam.

Agreed, but your statement was nonetheless amusing.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
All I meant was that Darkseid would crumble under an assault from a torqued off Black Adam. i concur. superman beats him up. if balck adam got a hold of him pissed. darkseid would beg for quarter again, but this time he wouldnt get it.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Agreed, but your statement was nonetheless amusing.

Originally posted by quanchi112



Kids Say The Darnest Things says Art Linkletter and Bill Cosby

DS. Wins. BA hasn't shown that he can amp himself up to the unreal lvls that Superman can achieve. DS is able to go handle the Likes of Lobo in hand to hand and Orion. BA will be no problem.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DS. Wins. BA hasn't shown that he can amp himself up to the unreal lvls that Superman can achieve. DS is able to go handle the Likes of Lobo in hand to hand and Orion. BA will be no problem. go read ww 3. ds wouldnt do half of that with hand to hand. ds would need his omega. sorry but ds loses worse than apokolips now. about the same as hunter and prey.

hay quanchi do you like pissing everyone off or did someone pay you to do that, oh and can you stop doing that little face with the tounge im sure its ok for a five year old to use that but your not five are you?

DS jobs to superman stop bringing it up in another thread you said darkseid was equal to highfather wow your a hypocrite you also never talk about how a gaurdian of the universe died fighting doomsday another hypocritical error as well as the fact that doomsday took alot of GL's out why hmm let me think BECAUSE HE BECOMES IMMUNE TO THE GL RING ENERGY DUH. and darkseid said he wasnt at full power i dont know why its not a rule to not be annoying on here hell if its made a rule they can kick me too if im annoying but i think youd be the first one booted for being annoying

Originally posted by Mider999
hay quanchi do you like pissing everyone off or did someone pay you to do that, oh and can you stop doing that little face with the tounge im sure its ok for a five year old to use that but your not five are you?

DS jobs to superman stop bringing it up in another thread you said darkseid was equal to highfather wow your a hypocrite you also never talk about how a gaurdian of the universe died fighting doomsday another hypocritical error as well as the fact that doomsday took alot of GL's out why hmm let me think BECAUSE HE BECOMES IMMUNE TO THE GL RING ENERGY DUH. and darkseid said he wasnt at full power i dont know why its not a rule to not be annoying on here hell if its made a rule they can kick me too if im annoying but i think youd be the first one booted for being annoying dont take my smiley faces annoying. and quit with the insults. just becuz ds loses to superman doesnt mean he loses to high father. different characters entirely. ds doesnt job he loses to supes. ever since the stalemate. supes has had his number.

darkseid admitted on panel that doomsday was unbeatable. meaning he knew he couldnt beat him. ds admitted this. on panel admittance of inferiority.

If Doomsday is unbeatable, THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THANOS BEATS HIM!? haermm And Darkseid wins this. Whether you acknowledge it or not, Superman's jobber aura is the only reason 'Seid doesn't just take him out.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
If Doomsday is unbeatable, THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THANOS BEATS HIM!? haermm And Darkseid wins this. Whether you acknowledge it or not, Superman's jobber aura is the only reason 'Seid doesn't just take him out. doomsady wasnt unbeatable. but in darkseids mind he was. darkseid couldnt beat him becuz he thought there was no way. superman believed and with a little help did what darkseid called impossible. thanos lives for a challenge while darkseid shies away from it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
doomsady wasnt unbeatable. but in darkseids mind he was. darkseid couldnt beat him becuz he thought there was no way. superman believed and with a little help did what darkseid called impossible. thanos lives for a challenge while darkseid shies away from it.

YOu realize that no one beat Doomsday? He had to be destroyed by Entropy. Even then, He came back.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
YOu realize that no one beat Doomsday? He had to be destroyed by Entropy. Even then, He came back. i realize that superman helped put him there while darkseid stayed on his home planet where he was safe from doomsday. it showed darkseid has no courage and he didnt even believe in himself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
i realize that superman helped put him there while darkseid stayed on his home planet where he was safe from doomsday. it showed darkseid has no courage and he didnt even believe in himself.

DS fought DD in the beginning and won the first round. WHile Superman amped up with a mother box still took a beating. It would seem that you have shit in your eye every time you read a DC book.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ds doesnt job

Uhm, yes he does.

Realistically, Darkseid could just transmutate Superman into shit and be over with it....

Enough of this Black Adam garbage. He loses this.

Forum rules.... DS wins.

In an actual comic.... BA would probably take it.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Uhm, yes he does.

Realistically, Darkseid could just transmutate Superman into shit and be over with it.... ds loses. he doesnt win every single time against superman. he loses. its that simple.

Originally posted by Galan007
Forum rules.... DS wins.

In an actual comic.... BA would probably take it. ds isnt that impressive without his omega effect. how many impressive brawling fights has he been in. not to many. black adam wins this and breaks ds's face.

Originally posted by quanchi112
its that simple.

No it's not.


Writers only have him go H2H with Superman, and doesn't let Darkseid use the full extent of his powers...

Otherwise Superman would just end up being disintegrated like this Pre-Crisis Daxamite:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p6a9d963c9bf1d453cc02e8f39e19024d/f9db7939.jpg

Or turned into a baby like Validus.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/pbfc5f1f8c8863de17f2156405dc7b135/f9db793f.jpg



It's that simple.

cant believe how stupid this thread is.... its pathetic. deserves closing!!! jobbing or no jobbing darkseid would obliterate black adam. this forum gets funnier every day

Originally posted by no_limits
cant believe how stupid this thread is.... its pathetic. deserves closing!!! jobbing or no jobbing darkseid would obliterate black adam. this forum gets funnier every day darkseid gets crushed by superman so how is this stupid...did u read world war three, do u know what black adam can do?

this is how simple it is. ah it wont work. whatever.

Originally posted by quanchi112
darkseid gets crushed by superman so how is this stupid...did u read world war three, do u know what black adam can do?

YOu are a DS hater and an idiot. DS could do what BA did faster and without lifting one finger.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
YOu are a DS hater and an idiot. DS could do what BA did faster and without lifting one finger. i like darkseid i have told u this. but darkseid isnt at all what he used to be. its quite sad. si till like darkseid but him losing consistently to superman says to me that black adam definitely could put him down. ur just being a biased darkseid fan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
i like darkseid i have told u this. but darkseid isnt at all what he used to be. its quite sad. si till like darkseid but him losing consistently to superman says to me that black adam definitely could put him down. ur just being a biased darkseid fan.

DS last showins have him pwning ALL of the NEW Gods and with a wave of his hand pwning Firestorm and Orion. He also seriously upgraded Kalibak. So shut the **** up.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DS last showins have him pwning ALL of the NEW Gods and with a wave of his hand pwning Firestorm and Orion. He also seriously upgraded Kalibak. So shut the **** up. whoopty doo. firestorm and orion dont quite stack up to superman. how many times has superman beat down ds. superman>orion. superman>firestorm.

Originally posted by quanchi112
whoopty doo. firestorm and orion dont quite stack up to superman. how many times has superman beat down ds. superman>orion. superman>firestorm.

You are an idiot to the highest order. FIrestorm beat an UPGRADED kalibak. The old kalibak could give Superman a good fight. Superman isn't beating Firestorm and Orion with a wave of his hand. IF he were to be able to beat either one, it would be after a long hard fought battle. And for the record, I think Orion beats Superman more often than not. Anyway, you pretty suck and have no valid opinio. So please, for the sake of sanity, stay out of my threads and don't respond to any of my post in anyone elses threads.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You are an idiot to the highest order. FIrestorm beat an UPGRADED kalibak. The old kalibak could give Superman a good fight. Superman isn't beating Firestorm and Orion with a wave of his hand. IF he were to be able to beat either one, it would be after a long hard fought battle. And for the record, I think Orion beats Superman more often than not. Anyway, you pretty suck and have no valid opinio. So please, for the sake of sanity, stay out of my threads and don't respond to any of my post in anyone elses threads. i will respond to the debate at hand. u cannot tell anyone what to do. u are bashing to the highest order and have been reported. i have given u warning after warning. u have been told my a moderator to chill out. u said u would. i come here to deabte while u try to bully people around and tell them to leave. whatever happnes to u is ur own fault. i will continue to debate.

if all darkseid needed was a wave of his hand to beat superman why didnt he do it? it takes more than that anymore to beat kal-el. it may work on orion and firestorm but not on superman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
i will respond to the debate at hand. u cannot tell anyone what to do. u are bashing to the highest order and have been reported. i have given u warning after warning. u have been told my a moderator to chill out. u said u would. i come here to deabte while u try to bully people around and tell them to leave. whatever happnes to u is ur own fault. i will continue to debate.

if all darkseid needed was a wave of his hand to beat superman why didnt he do it? it takes more than that anymore to beat kal-el. it may work on orion and firestorm but not on superman.

OMG you are a freakign idiot. What don't you understand about CURRENT showings. As in DS hasn't fought Superman since he's been written more powerful. IDIOT

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I think Orion beats Superman more often than not.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/326/orionsupes014my.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/296/orionsupes020ag.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5433/orionsupes030dt.jpg

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
OMG you are a freakign idiot. What don't you understand about CURRENT showings. As in DS hasn't fought Superman since he's been written more powerful. IDIOT u cant debate like that. i cant say look at what superman is doing now he is obviously being written more powerful, likewise u cant say the same of darkseid. until darkseid beats him we have to go by their last few fights. superman isnt firestorm or orion. hes better than both of them and more important to the universe than both of them. superman is dc's star.

Originally posted by quanchi112
u cant debate like that. i cant say look at what superman is doing now he is obviously being written more powerful, likewise u cant say the same of darkseid. until darkseid beats him we have to go by their last few fights. superman isnt firestorm or orion. hes better than both of them and more important to the universe than both of them. superman is dc's star.

LOL at you. That is the dummest ever. Of course we go by current showings. THat is like saying Wonder Woman vs. the Cyber Amazon and saying we can only go by thier last encounter. DUMB!!!!! If wonder Woman has fought someone of similiar power lvl to Cyber amazon lately and won, then we assume she can do the same. No wonder you can't debate. YOu dont' even know how to debate or how the rules go.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
LOL at you. That is the dummest ever. Of course we go by current showings. THat is like saying Wonder Woman vs. the Cyber Amazon and saying we can only go by thier last encounter. DUMB!!!!! If wonder Woman has fought someone of similiar power lvl to Cyber amazon lately and won, then we assume she can do the same. No wonder you can't debate. YOu dont' even know how to debate or how the rules go. wow. anyways ur comparin of firestorm and darkseids inferior son to superman isnt even close. superman has taken down doomsday whom darkseid thought was unbeatable. he did it time and time again. superman has a never say die attitude while darkseid has a give up retreat and come back another day attitude. we will see if darkseid beats superman. i doubt it. superman has almost closed the gap and has darkseids number. its the way it is, countdown needs to reestablish darkseid as a badass. hes been so weak for so long he needs these hand gesturing victoires. he wont hand gesture supes away nowadays.

Originally posted by quanchi112
wow. anyways ur comparin of firestorm and darkseids inferior son to superman isnt even close. superman has taken down doomsday whom darkseid thought was unbeatable. he did it time and time again. superman has a never say die attitude while darkseid has a give up retreat and come back another day attitude. we will see if darkseid beats superman. i doubt it. superman has almost closed the gap and has darkseids number. its the way it is, countdown needs to reestablish darkseid as a badass. hes been so weak for so long he needs these hand gesturing victoires. he wont hand gesture supes away nowadays.
Did you see the post of Orion Pwing Superman? I guess you missed it. I'm done talking with you. Your blind hate of DS and your attempt to put everything that is DC down has become silly. You dont' use logic or linear events when you debate so there is no need in even trying. As seen by other posters who have pretty much said the same thigns that I ahve.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Did you see the post of Orion Pwing Superman? I guess you missed it. I'm done talking with you. Your blind hate of DS and your attempt to put everything that is DC down has become silly. You dont' use logic or linear events when you debate so there is no need in even trying. As seen by other posters who have pretty much said the same thigns that I ahve. u mean something that happened about twenty years ago. u could find old scans of darkseid beating superman back in the day. things have changed. superman has beaten darkseid down. has orion beat him multiple times in a row ever? anyways black adam crushes ds face. without his omega effect he wont last nore than three panels.

Originally posted by quanchi112
u mean something that happened about twenty years ago. u could find old scans of darkseid beating superman back in the day. things have changed. superman has beaten darkseid down. has orion beat him multiple times in a row ever? anyways black adam crushes ds face. without his omega effect he wont last nore than three panels.

Um how many years has it been since Superman has Fought DS? How many years has it been since Superman has fought Orion? Exactly. You suck.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um how many years has it been since Superman has Fought DS? How many years has it been since Superman has fought Orion? Exactly. You suck.

Originally posted by Tyrant

Well he's tryign to discount a fight with Superman and Orion when I used the same argument that superman hadn't fought ds since he's been written at higher lvls. Then he pulls this argument out of his ass that Supers and orion's fight was years ago, when in fact supers hadn't fought ds in years. go figure.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um how many years has it been since Superman has Fought DS? How many years has it been since Superman has fought Orion? Exactly. You suck. can anyone translate this for me.war just calm down and explain to me what this means. anyways superman has beaten up ds the last three or four times he ofught him. supes is currently tougher than darkseid.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well he's tryign to discount a fight with Superman and Orion when I used the same argument that superman hadn't fought ds since he's been written at higher lvls. Then he pulls this argument out of his ass that Supers and orion's fight was years ago, when in fact supers hadn't fought ds in years. go figure. 20 years is way different than 2 or 3 years. superman is growing in power, u even admitted this to me. that superman in dc u cant keep him down.

DS has countless years of battles, DS is consider the greatest H2H combatant of the New Gods, only person that comes close to him or equal him is Orion. BA is just a brawler, a brawler vs a top h2h combatant not even a contest, DS will amp himself to ridiclous levels and slaughter BA and make him his lap dog. DS 10/10

Originally posted by the Darkone
DS has countless years of battles, DS is consider the greatest H2H combatant of the New Gods, only person that comes close to him or equal him is Orion. BA is just a brawler, a brawler vs a top h2h combatant not even a contest, DS will amp himself to ridiclous levels and slaughter BA and make him his lap dog. DS 10/10 how come ds didnt do this in apokolips now? he surrendered and asked for quarter to superman. just cuzu say he is the greatest hand to hand combatant from the new gods doesnt mean hes the greatest in the universe. look at what doomsday did to him.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well he's tryign to discount a fight with Superman and Orion when I used the same argument that superman hadn't fought ds since he's been written at higher lvls. Then he pulls this argument out of his ass that Supers and orion's fight was years ago, when in fact supers hadn't fought ds in years. go figure. Superman fought Darkseid three years ago...

Originally posted by Tyrant
Superman fought Darkseid three years ago...

i guess according to never 20 years ago is the same as three years ago.

Originally posted by Tyrant
Superman fought Darkseid three years ago...

3 years a go is along time considering DS has pwned ALLLLLL of the new Gods, created alternate realities and pwned an amped firestorm and Orion with a wave of a hand. Thus Until further notice, Superman isn't anywhere near currect DS lvls.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
3 years a go is along time considering DS has pwned ALLLLLL of the new Gods, created alternate realities and pwned an amped firestorm and Orion with a wave of a hand. Thus Until further notice, Superman isn't anywhere near currect DS lvls. wrong, until darkseid beats superman then he can claim he can hag with him once again. ds needs a win over the man of steel. for ur sake i hope he gets it. otherwise superman owns ds as of late.

Originally posted by quanchi112
wrong, until darkseid beats superman then he can claim he can hag with him once again. ds needs a win over the man of steel. for ur sake i hope he gets it. otherwise superman owns ds as of late.

DOn'tbe a dummy. That would be like saying Thor comes back and pwns everyone he encounters but becuz he hasn't specifically beaten the hulk, until he does, Hulk still wins. That is just your pure silly logic. Now go away noob.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DOn'tbe a dummy. That would be like saying Thor comes back and pwns everyone he encounters but becuz he hasn't specifically beaten the hulk, until he does, Hulk still wins. That is just your pure silly logic. Now go away noob. ur theory is just that a theory, my theory happened in apokolips now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ur theory is just that a theory, my theory happened in apokolips now.

NO you idiot. You don't get it. DS is more powerful Now than then. He specifically has used powers and to a greater degree than he used then. Thus, your theory is shit.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO you idiot. You don't get it. DS is more powerful Now than then. He specifically has used powers and to a greater degree than he used then. Thus, your theory is shit. last time they met darkseid begged for mercy from him. darkseid showed how eak he can be when facing superman one on one.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO you idiot. You don't get it. DS is more powerful Now than then. He specifically has used powers and to a greater degree than he used then. Thus, your theory is shit.

Anyway... Darkseid's last showing between Superman and him, had Darkseid punching him the Source Wall...

I think Darkseid wins, unless Adam uses his speed.

Whenever Superman and Darkseid match up, the physical edge is on the side of Darkseid.

The two times Darkseid has clearly lost to Superman, it wasn't clear who lost the match until Darkseid got hit with his own OE.

On average, Darkseid is stronger by a decent degree.

We don't know how that'll be portrayed with the DC behind Superman currently push he's got going, but time will tell.

Meantime, i consider Teth/Cap = Superman in physical stats.

Darkseid wins, unless Teth fights him the way Orion fought daddy darkknobs.

Originally posted by quanchi112
my theory happened in apokolips now.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/agf.jpg

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/agf.jpg Colorful.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/agf.jpg my theory is factual. if u dont like it, dont read apokolips now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
my theory is factual. if u dont like it, dont read apokolips now.

I've read it....

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
I've read it.... then u know that darkseid loses. superman can and has beat him up to the point of submission.

Originally posted by quanchi112
then u know that darkseid loses. superman can and has beat him up to the point of submission.

Tell me, what was the very last encounter between Superman and DS like?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Tell me, what was the very last encounter between Superman and DS like? ur going to start spouting this now after tyrant said something. arent u. i said that superman can and has beaten his head in. not everytime but for anyone to sit there and act like ds wins everytime is preposterous.

anyways adam as we saw him in world war three was an utter maniac. darkseid would lose to him. hes just to powerful with his fists. with out ds's omega he would go down.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ur going to start spouting this now after tyrant said something. arent u. i said that superman can and has beaten his head in. not everytime but for anyone to sit there and act like ds wins everytime is preposterous.

How many times have they fought, And How many times has Supers won? Out of those wins, How many were avatars or desaad. So some homework and then meet me back here mkay? MMMkay.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How many times have they fought, And How many times has Supers won? Out of those wins, How many were avatars or desaad. So some homework and then meet me back here mkay? MMMkay. where is this guide to darkseid? how many were avatars? does this mysterious guide u own tell u. cuz ds has stated that he rarely uses this but its what u want to fall back on everytime he loses. doesnt add up this way. ever since the stalemate at our worlds at war superman has been much better at fighting darkseid. hes adapted and can beat him. just accept it. accept when darkseid admitted he was humiliated by superman. it says so on panel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
where is this guide to darkseid? how many were avatars? does this mysterious guide u own tell u. cuz ds has stated that he rarely uses this but its what u want to fall back on everytime he loses. doesnt add up this way. ever since the stalemate at our worlds at war superman has been much better at fighting darkseid. hes adapted and can beat him. just accept it. accept when darkseid admitted he was humiliated by superman. it says so on panel.

It does say so on panel. that's the problem, some fanboys like nvrbeenwthagirl can't even see what is right in front of their eyes

Originally posted by Soops220
It does say so on panel. that's the problem, some fanboys like nvrbeenwthagirl can't even see what is right in front of their eyes cosigned.

Originally posted by Soops220
It does say so on panel. that's the problem, some fanboys like nvrbeenwthagirl can't even see what is right in front of their eyes

Umm, Please dont' mention my name out of your mouth unless oyu know what your talking about. When was the last time the two fought? what happened? Has superman fought DS since DS has been written uber powerful? Chew on that for a while and let it sink in. It's right in front of your eyes that DS can create alter realities and pwn top tiers with a wave of his hand. It's shows it right on panel. Some haters like quanchi can't ever see what's right in front of thier own eyes.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Umm, Please dont' mention my name out of your mouth unless oyu know what your talking about. When was the last time the two fought? what happened? Has superman fought DS since DS has been written uber powerful? Chew on that for a while and let it sink in. It's right in front of your eyes that DS can create alter realities and pwn top tiers with a wave of his hand. It's shows it right on panel. Some haters like quanchi can't ever see what's right in front of thier own eyes. im not the hater. u try with all ur might to discount things that have happened. ecxuses here and excuses there. but the fact remains that superman kicked ds ass straight up and could have ruled apokolips. ds admitted he lost. why cant u accpet what darkseid says on panel. i take his word for it. he lost one on one. accept it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
how come ds didnt do this in apokolips now? he surrendered and asked for quarter to superman. just cuzu say he is the greatest hand to hand combatant from the new gods doesnt mean hes the greatest in the universe. look at what doomsday did to him.

Because writers carter to the heroes, it's common sense. DS full powered has never lost on physical plain, it's been avatars this was stated in New Gods #15 vol.2 or 3 before jack kirby fourth world. DS powers alone shield off COIE events. till to this day they are not affected.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Because writers carter to the heroes, it's common sense. DS full powered has never lost on physical plain, it's been avatars this was stated in New Gods #15 vol.2 or 3 before jack kirby fourth world. DS powers alone shield off COIE events. till to this day they are not affected. that was darkseid building himself up. it makes no sesne. then darkseid is a liar in other instances wherre he admits he lost and has said things that doomsday was unbeatable. u have no proof of what was an avatar and what wasnt. so it stands and counts unless specifically retconned.

Originally posted by quanchi112
that was darkseid building himself up. it makes no sesne. then darkseid is a liar in other instances wherre he admits he lost and has said things that doomsday was unbeatable. u have no proof of what was an avatar and what wasnt. so it stands and counts unless specifically retconned.


DS avatars are some what connected to the true DS, JK who created DS was the main writer on NG#15, it came from him That DS uses avatars to do his work, DS devolved PC Validus back to a child who was a sky-father being him self, beating the likes PC Superboy, Ultra Boy, M'onel who where 3x stronger than PC Superman.

Originally posted by the Darkone
DS avatars are some what connected to the true DS, JK who created DS was the main writer on NG#15, it came from him That DS uses avatars to do his work, DS devolved PC Validus back to a child who was a sky-father being him self, beating the likes PC Superboy, Ultra Boy, M'onel who where 3x stronger than PC Superman. i dont care if jack kirby said the real ds hasnt been seen yet. any writer can come in anretcon anything they want. dc makes the final call not jack kirby. it makes no sense for ds to send an avatar to fight superman who he admitted in defeat superman could rule his whole planet. if that were true then darkseid would be an idiot or a coward.