Wolverine vs Mace Windu with a twist

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Battlehammer
Mace has no light saber and no long range force attacks who wins?




I think mace wins to be honest.

srankmissingnin
Wolverine would beat Mace even if he was aloud his saber and long range force attacks.

I can count the times the force has been used during melee combat on one hand. It requires concentration, unless both parties are standing around twiddling their thumbs, nothing more significant then a force push is going down. Wolverine would kick almost any Jedi/Sith's ass (excluding EU of course, then it isn't even a contest) so hard he'd make Durge look like a pussy.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine would beat Mace even if he was aloud his saber and long range force attacks.

I can count the times the force has been used during melee combat on one hand. It requires concentration, unless both parties are standing around twiddling their thumbs, nothing more significant then a force push is going down. Wolverine would kick almost any Jedi/Sith's ass (excluding EU of course, then it isn't even a contest) so hard he'd make Durge look like a pussy.
srank your wrong this time.


Mace does not need to concentrate to use the force. He used a force sqeesh instantly with little to know effort and defeated grieves with the single attack.

He could easily do the same to wolverine.

He has weaved in and out of laser. Soeed blizt battle dromes and beat the shit out of an army of them with his bare ahnds. He defelexed laser to the point were he was blocking all the laser shot at a force of men.

He has feets of reflex that put him over wolevrine or spiderman.

He can amp his strength well over spiderman level.

His skills with a sword are unrivalled.

Hell he took down a whole armie of attacker by him self. Jumping 100 feet in the air and assualting the air craft destroying it with seemingly little effort.

Well free falling he has defelected lasers back at it targets.

Wolverines lucky if he can take windu in h2h lets alone with a light saber and range froce attacks.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Battlehammer
srank your wrong this time.


Mace does not need to concentrate to use the force. He used a force sqeesh instantly with little to know effort and defeated grieves with the single attack.

He could easily do the same to wolverine.

He has weaved in and out of laser. Soeed blizt battle dromes and beat the shit out of an army of them with his bare ahnds. He defelexed laser to the point were he was blocking all the laser shot at a force of men.

He has feets of reflex that put him over wolevrine or spiderman.

He can amp his strength well over spiderman level.

His skills with a sword are unrivalled.

Hell he took down a whole armie of attacker by him self. Jumping 100 feet in the air and assualting the air craft destroying it with seemingly little effort.

Well free falling he has defelected lasers back at it targets.

Wolverines lucky if he can take windu in h2h lets alone with a light saber and range froce attacks.

confused

Are you talking about the Clone Wars cartoon Windu? Thats EU and secondary (ie non) canon.

snoopdogg
I thought the Clone Wars cartoon were cannon? They lead right up to the start of Revenge of the Sith.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by snoopdogg
I thought the Clone Wars cartoon were cannon? They lead right up to the start of Revenge of the Sith.

Everything but the movies is non canon/secondary canon, even the comics.

... I think Lucas made an exception and later said that KOTOR was canon but I forget.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Everything but the movies is non canon/secondary canon, even the comics.

... I think Lucas made an exception and later said that KOTOR was canon but I forget. Things that happened the the cartoon impacted events in the movie. Like Grievous coughing in the movie was from Mace crushing his chest in the cartoon.

SnazzySmurph
They have different levels of canoninity. Grey Fox explained it once. Look for his post. It was in the Comic Book section.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Things that happened the the cartoon impacted events in the movie. Like Grievous coughing in the movie was from Mace crushing his chest in the cartoon.

Just because something doesn't conflict with the primary canon doesn't mean it is part of the primary canon. The Star Wars Clone Wars cartoon - both the 2D and up coming 3D one - are part of the EU, as in Extended Universe. They are secondary canon, and even if they don't directly contradict the story, they aren't part of the canon Star Wars universe because, as Lucas him self has stated, only the movies are.

The power feats in the cartoon grossly contradict what has been displayed in the movies and would all have to be ignored by some rule we have (PIS or Hama0, even if it was primary canon.

guy222
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Mace has no light saber and no long range force attacks who wins?




I think mace wins to be honest.

logan ftw

Battlehammer
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
confused

Are you talking about the Clone Wars cartoon Windu? Thats EU and secondary (ie non) canon.
it is cannon and lucas him self stated it was............

Battlehammer
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Things that happened the the cartoon impacted events in the movie. Like Grievous coughing in the movie was from Mace crushing his chest in the cartoon.
it cannon lucas him self stated it.

joesdabest1
idk if mace would win without saber/long range force.


but if he had those, wolverine would get murked.

Wally West
Mace could mind-trick him into cutting off his own head big grin

Soops220
clone wars are canon. Mace wins this.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Battlehammer
it is cannon and lucas him self stated it was............

No he didn't. He said it took place between episode 2 and 3, which it did, but it isn't primary canon. GL has a strict canon policy, you should look it up. Almost everything (games, comics, books, cartoon) have little to no contratiction with the Star Wars story line but they aren't primary canon.

Howdy Folks
srink how mace lose????

u stupid?

Soljer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

Sparkz
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Almost everything (games, comics, books, cartoon) have little to no contratiction with the Star Wars story line but they aren't primary canon.

Thats cause most of the time they aren't anything like or have much to do with the films...

jinzin
Without the use of the force or a lightsaber Mace loses this fight horribly based on Wolverine's damage soak alone, in a fight where Mace is aloud either of those two things he'll curb Logans ass.

Sparkz
Originally posted by jinzin
Without the use of the force or a lightsaber Mace loses this fight horribly based on Wolverine's damage soak alone, in a fight where Mace is aloud either of those two things he'll curb Logans ass.

He is aloud short range force attacks...Incidentally does that mean he has to wait for Logan to get close before he can use force push? cause what exactly is a long range force attack when the force is everywhere?

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Howdy Folks
srink how mace lose????

u stupid?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine would beat Mace even if he was aloud his saber and long range force attacks.

I can count the times the force has been used during melee combat on one hand. It requires concentration, unless both parties are standing around twiddling their thumbs, nothing more significant then a force push is going down. Wolverine would kick almost any Jedi/Sith's ass (excluding EU of course, then it isn't even a contest) so hard he'd make Durge look like a pussy.

You might be able to read and type better if you took of your Storm Trooper cosplay outfit.

jinzin
Originally posted by Sparkz
He is aloud short range force attacks...Incidentally does that mean he has to wait for Logan to get close before he can use force push? cause what exactly is a long range force attack when the force is everywhere?

Yeah i don't know.


hmmm I assumed that we were using EU, strictly based on the movies Wolverine would take most sith and jedi.

Sparkz
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah i don't know.


hmmm I assumed that we were using EU, strictly based on the movies Wolverine would take most sith and jedi.

EU?

jinzin
expanded universe: comics books clone wars games etc etc.

Soljer
Originally posted by Sparkz
He is aloud short range force attacks...Incidentally does that mean he has to wait for Logan to get close before he can use force push? cause what exactly is a long range force attack when the force is everywhere?

I think Capt is referring to what you see in the Clone Wars cartoon - where Mace Force-Punches several droids to bits.

srankmissingnin
As I said in my first post

If we use EU then Mace wins.
If we use primary canon only, Wolverine wins.

Anyone disagree?

jinzin
Originally posted by Soljer
I think Capt is referring to what you see in the Clone Wars cartoon - where Mace Force-Punches several droids to bits. Clone wars mace destroyed an entire army of those things and he was zipping around like a flying quicksilver.. insane.

jinzin
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
As I said in my first post

If we use EU then Mace wins.
If we use primary canon only, Wolverine wins.

Anyone disagree? Again without the use of the force or lightsaber, no I don't...

Sparkz
Originally posted by jinzin
expanded universe: comics books clone wars games etc etc.

If thats the case and we are using games then Mace would have a powerful force heal wouldn't he? and speed...seems like this might not be so one sided, but how exactly can he hurt Wolverine without his Lightsabre and without using the force to I dnt know leviatate and strangle him etc...

jinzin
Originally posted by Sparkz
If thats the case and we are using games then Mace would have a powerful force heal wouldn't he? and speed...seems like this might not be so one sided, but how exactly can he hurt Wolverine without his Lightsabre and without using the force to I dnt know leviatate and strangle him etc... Battlehammer said no ranged force attacks so i figured that wasn't an option.

Wally West
By the way I think if you're taking away Mace's lightsaber you should take away Wolverine's claws (adamantium and bone) to even things up.

Sparkz
Yeah but its difficult to access what actually is a long range attack besides lightning. Hmmm I'm tempted say stalemate as both of them can heal pretty much anything if its EU...

Darth Martin
With the force and the lightabre Mace could antiocipate his next move do to The Force' limited pre cog and then crush him similar to what magneto did whith his skeleton. Mace=Bad***

Basco15
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Things that happened the the cartoon impacted events in the movie. Like Grievous coughing in the movie was from Mace crushing his chest in the cartoon.

The reason Grievous was coughing in the movie was because Lucas wanted to portray the evolution of technology in Star Wars.Grievous had almost his entire body replaced.Since he was an early attempt at that kind of surgery.So they made him heavy and had him coughing,showing that he wasn't that successful.Darth Vader was the more perfected form of that surgery.Thus,Grievous was Alpha technology,and Darth Vader was Beta technology.

Wolverine would win without even a thought.

Soljer
Anywho, as far as canon goes....the link to the wiki I posted earlier explains it.

Pretty much anything with a "LucasFilms" tag on it that DOESN'T contradict the film, novelizations, or statements directly from lucas, is considered canon.

Minus ""What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon," anything produced by LFL? Canon. Including clone wars.

Thusly? Mace is a hoss.

SnazzySmurph
How loosely do they throw around the word "contradict"?

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Soljer
Anywho, as far as canon goes....the link to the wiki I posted earlier explains it.

Pretty much anything with a "LucasFilms" tag on it that DOESN'T contradict the film, novelizations, or statements directly from lucas, is considered canon.

Minus ""What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon," anything produced by LFL? Canon. Including clone wars.

Thusly? Mace is a hoss.
correct.

I think he states it in the commentary of one of the films as well.

Not to mention he stated it in an interview

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Wally West
By the way I think if you're taking away Mace's lightsaber you should take away Wolverine's claws (adamantium and bone) to even things up.
why? that would not even be fair. mace is a freaking beast.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Soljer
Anywho, as far as canon goes....the link to the wiki I posted earlier explains it.

Pretty much anything with a "LucasFilms" tag on it that DOESN'T contradict the film, novelizations, or statements directly from lucas, is considered canon.

Minus ""What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon," anything produced by LFL? Canon. Including clone wars.

Thusly? Mace is a hoss.

It's all some degree of canon but the cartoons aren't primary canon (... GL uses some letter grade for the levels of canon, but I forget what they are). Only the movies are primary canon, and overrule everything else if there is any sort of contradiction. The cartoons (games/comics/books)contradict the power levels of the characters shown in the movies and thus are overruled by the primary canon.

Ouallada
Short-ranged force is an oxymoron. The force is omnipresent.

As far as canon goes, G, C, S, N and T. Iirc, T is applied to clone wars cartoons and the upcoming live action series. The general application for canon is that it is canon unless superceded by a canon source of a higher level. IE, if a novel does not directly contradict a movie, it can generally be taken to be canon.

As far as the clone wars cartoon series goes, it fits G canon, but is exaggerated. Take it with a pinch of salt.

Oh, and Windu wins this.

Soljer
Originally posted by Ouallada
Short-ranged force is an oxymoron. The force is omnipresent.

As far as canon goes, G, C, S, N and T. Iirc, T is applied to clone wars cartoons and the upcoming live action series. The general application for canon is that it is canon unless superceded by a canon source of a higher level. IE, if a novel does not directly contradict a movie, it can generally be taken to be canon.

As far as the clone wars cartoon series goes, it fits G canon, but is exaggerated. Take it with a pinch of salt.

Oh, and Windu wins this.

Short range FORCE may be an oxymoron, but short range force ATTACK is not.

'Short range' describes the attack, not the force.

As far as levels of canon goes, that was already discussed. Except maybe for 't' canon.

But, the REAL question is - with Windu showings NONE of these abilities in the films, is this absence of evidence enough to prove an evidence of absence, and - therefore - have the films contradict the cartoons?

snoopdogg
So is Mace handicaped in this fight? Logan has adamantium and healing factor?

Ouallada
Originally posted by Soljer
Short range FORCE may be an oxymoron, but short range force ATTACK is not.

'Short range' describes the attack, not the force.

As far as levels of canon goes, that was already discussed. Except maybe for 't' canon.

But, the REAL question is - with Windu showings NONE of these abilities in the films, is this absence of evidence enough to prove an evidence of absence, and - therefore - have the films contradict the cartoons?

How short is short? 10yards? 5? 2inches?

I have seen an instance in which Yoda was saberless and avoided being hit by three othermasters wielding sabers. Might be ABC logic, but seeing that Yoda and Mace are not terribly far off in terms of force sensitivity, the same logic could apply here.

To be honest, the films do not exactly encapsulate a lot. The games, for instance, are canon. That is despite some feats going past what is seen in the films. A contradiction is only when film canon and other forms of canon are mutually exclusive, IE only one can be true. Clone wars does not contradict the films, and so it is canon.

As far as a lack of evidence goes, I still stand by the fact that everything in the clone wars cartoon was exaggerated. Meaning Windu would be able to accomplish all of that, but either not on such a large scale, or not in such a small timeframe. Anyone who has played through KOTOR 1 and 2 can already see that ancient sith and jedi had ridiculous feats, going by what we see in the films, but that Palpatine, arguably the best sith ever, lacked any feats going by the movies. I then take it to be that the movies set storyline boundaries, while the Eu and other canon expand on character boundaries.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.