Goku vs Pre Crisis Superman

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Badabing
Thanks to the amended rules we can settle this debate.......hopefully.

llagrok
Pre-crisis superman easily.

DBGT was non-canon, so Goku doesn't stand a chance.

Harry Fingerman
What about SS4 Goku?

ExtraMision5555
honestly, you dont want to have this debate

Goku does infact win though.

P.s
its best not to use the non-cannon argument, if someones argueing for goku, thier not gonna buy it
i certinaly dont. but lets not get into that either
Goku at the end of GT had the dragonballs in him
more than enough power to break superman into 12 pieces

Lord Prime
oh my here we go again, Pre-crisis Superman owns any lvl of goku.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Lord Prime
oh my here we go again,

Lol
my thoughts exactly

illadelph12
GT is canon. Different writer doesn't change that.

I may have to add that to the DBZ rules.

llagrok
DBGT was filler, thus it's not canon.

Claiming it's not, is like saying something's canon to the SW storyline without Lucas having written it.

WrathfulDwarf
In the interest of those of you who want to read an extended version of this fight go here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=407983&pagenumber=1

Fair arguments. Unlimited comments. Under watch by yours trully.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by illadelph12
GT is canon. Different writer doesn't change that.



I was beginning to think i was the only one who understood that.

llagrok
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
I was beginning to think i was the only one who understood that.

No filler is canon in my opinion.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by llagrok
in my opinion.

I understand where your coming from, but thats essentially what ive been saying all along. None of us wrote GT, and none of us have the authority to conclude it was not cannon. In doing so, you can draw analigies (sp?) to several other works using the same "regulations" that some try to apply to GT, and create a whole slew of problems for the cannon nature of other works. Every artist (Creator) is different. George lucas set rules, companys own licences, etc.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
In the interest of those of you who want to read an extended version of this fight go here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=407983&pagenumber=1

Fair arguments. Unlimited comments. Under watch by yours trully.

I think the superman vs goku one in the video game thread is longer actually, untill it got closed :/

nvrbeenwthagirl
Goko Seems around Sky father. So does precrisis Superman. Goko Seems The better fighter with better energy projection. Superman seems faster with better durability and time travel powers. I'd say they both have the goods to put each other down with Superman able to pull powers out of his ass for a 6/10 split do to the PIS ladden history that isPRE- crisis DC.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Goko Seems around Sky father. So does precrisis Superman. Goko Seems The better fighter with better energy projection. Superman seems faster with better durability and time travel powers. I'd say they both have the goods to put each other down with Superman able to pull powers out of his ass for a 6/10 split do to the PIS ladden history that is crisis.

long time no see!

well

"see"

King_Cold
Goku after training with Shenron for a hundred years wins no contest. (At the end of DBGT Goku went to train with Shenron)

Goku SSJ4 from DBGT losses, and pre crissis superman wins no contest.

Avalonofthewind
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/690/pctr7sl4.jpg

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pctr7sl4.jpg

funny picture
big grin

spidermonkey
Oh boy this is gonna be fun.

DARKLORDCAEDUS
Goku

lando005
i would say goku 6/10 before he absorbed the dragon balls although he would be far more powerful than sups his fighting time is only about 20 mins or so after the end of gt my money would be on goku all the way

Endless Mike
Goku has no chance against Post - Crisis Superman, let alone Pre - Crisis Superman.

Making GT canon actually makes it worse for him, as it shows him being much weaker than in DBZ (having trouble lifting buildings, getting impaled by a flagpole, getting almost killed by heat only as hot as the surface of the sun, etc.) Furthermore, at the end when he merged with the dragonballs, it was never even revealed what that did for him. For all we know, it could have made him weaker.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the only reason people think DBZ characters are so powerful is that most of the dialogue of the entire show is them talking about how powerful they are. Typical arguments in their favor go along the line of "Well this guy is stronger than this guy who is stronger than this guy who is stronger than this guy who destroyed a planet". That's way too vague to mean anything without a way of knowing exactly how much stronger. DBZ characters simply have no feats that put them on the levels of DC top tiers, let alone PC Superman. Check out his respect thread, he would speedblitz him to death.

joesdabest1
goku can travel faster than supes

Galvaclaw
With instant translocation? This isn't a race. Besides Goku needs a ki signiture to lock onto to do it.



Sure he is, what sky father level feats does Goku have. He's certainly not on Odins level.

bobbi
Originally posted by llagrok
DBGT was filler, thus it's not canon.

Claiming it's not, is like saying something's canon to the SW storyline without Lucas having written it.

Lucas didn't even really write empire strikes back and return of the jedi so not exactly the best argument.

Anyway I think pre-crisis supes wins just because of the PIS in everything he does. and Goku still can't breath in space in GT right? Superman can just blow off all the atmosphere of the planets in the galaxy and suffocate him. (oh and uh.. he pulls all the planets that have life off to another galaxy so he won't kill those people. he's done similar already)

Jack Harkness
Goku dies against normal supes, this one kills him.

KarlKarni
Originally posted by Jack Harkness
Goku dies against normal supes, this one kills him.

Pretending to be you:

"No, Goku is skilled, start reading comics!"

But Superman wins, the speed and strenght difference is immense.

Jack Harkness
Pretending to be you:

I am an idiot.

KarlKarni

Creshosk
Where'd Jack say anything about skill?

And are you supporting Goku, or are you supporting Supes?

Jack Harkness
Exactly, I made a fair comment he goes mad.

KarlKarni

Jack Harkness
Yawn beacuse dont wanna argue with you fans

Creshosk

KarlKarni
Originally posted by Creshosk
So you're both supporting superman on this one and not due to skill?

Nope.
Me and Jack Harkness both agree that Superman wins in a curbstomp.

But in other threads, he keep saying the most skilled wins, even through its ridicolous against his opponents stats.

Jack Harkness
They win because they are better and do it regually.

KarlKarni
Originally posted by Jack Harkness
They win because they are better and do it regually.

Yes, they can take opponents stronger than themself, but they never takes out stronger opponents who are nearly as skilled as themselfwink

lando005
this particular fight should be band but not for the reasons you may think. Primarily because this is a comic book oriented forum and secondly because the character representing comic books is superman so for those reasons this fight is always going to be extremely bias in his favor your never going to get a fair opinion here.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by lando005
this particular fight should be band but not for the reasons you may think. Primarily because this is a comic book oriented forum and secondly because the character representing comic books is superman so for those reasons this fight is always going to be extremely bias in his favor your never going to get a fair opinion here.

There are tons of anime characters that could tear Superman a new one. Goku just isn't one of them.

lando005
Originally posted by Endless Mike
There are tons of anime characters that could tear Superman a new one. Goku just isn't one of them. that isnt the point you know as well as i do that the bias will always be in his favor or any other comic character for that matter

it may be different if the DB series was written a bit more seriously then people may be able to accept the fact that goku could beat him but because of the way the series was made no one will ever accept it

Endless Mike
Originally posted by lando005
that isnt the point you know as well as i do that the bias will always be in his favor or any other comic character for that matter

it may be different if the DB series was written a bit more seriously then people may be able to accept the fact that goku could beat him but because of the way the series was made no one will ever accept it

Obviously some people think he could win, or else there would never be any debate at all.

lando005
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Obviously some people think he could win, or else there would never be any debate at all. if you look at stats and abilities rather than the way he was portrayed then yea he can win

SeerQris
I debated much to long in the Goku Vs. Superman thread(year(s) ago) to do it again.

In short.

Goku FTW

Badabing
Originally posted by SeerQris
I debated much to long in the Goku Vs. Superman thread(year(s) ago) to do it again.

In short.

Goku FTW Yeah, I'm not buying that explanation.

SeerQris
Originally posted by Badabing
Yeah, I'm not buying that explanation.

And I won't be obliged to join because you arn't "purchasing" my statement.

Badabing
Originally posted by SeerQris
And I won't be obliged to join because you arn't "purchasing" my statement. It depends...how much does it cost?

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Badabing
It depends...how much does it cost?

laughing laughing

leonheartmm
well, the only one who can put up a fight against PRECRISIS superman is gogeto. no1 else can in my oppinion. pre crisis wins cause he was plot device.

normal superman on the other hand would die infront of super sayin ONE goku. no match there at all.{and for all the people who believe POST crisis superman can beat every dragon ball gt character at the same time, id say , keep dreaming (wink ). he cant handle super sayin 1 trunks let alone any1 else}

Badabing
Originally posted by leonheartmm
well, the only one who can put up a fight against PRECRISIS superman is gogeto. no1 else can in my oppinion. pre crisis wins cause he was plot device.

normal superman on the other hand would die infront of super sayin ONE goku. no match there at all.{and for all the people who believe POST crisis superman can beat every dragon ball gt character at the same time, id say , keep dreaming (wink ). he cant handle super sayin 1 trunks let alone any1 else} Thanks Illadelph. duryes

King Kandy
Wouldn't Goku with the Dragon Balls absorbed have the same power as Omega Shenron?

llagrok
Originally posted by leonheartmm
well, the only one who can put up a fight against PRECRISIS superman is gogeto. no1 else can in my oppinion. pre crisis wins cause he was plot device.

normal superman on the other hand would die infront of super sayin ONE goku. no match there at all.{and for all the people who believe POST crisis superman can beat every dragon ball gt character at the same time, id say , keep dreaming (wink ). he cant handle super sayin 1 trunks let alone any1 else}

You mean the tough guys who have never lifted anything in excess of 10 tons?

illadelph12
Lifting strength isn't the end all be all in fighting you know.

llagrok
Originally posted by illadelph12
Lifting strength isn't the end all be all in fighting you know.

Tells us something about their strength level though.

Seeing as their speed isn't even comparable to superman's, they can forget about hitting him with any energy attacks. Or punches for that matter.

Faceman
Originally posted by illadelph12
Lifting strength isn't the end all be all in fighting you know.

Mar-Vell, is a perfect example of that....

SeerQris
Originally posted by Badabing
It depends...how much does it cost?

you got me

smile

llagrok
Originally posted by Faceman
Mar-Vell, is a perfect example of that....

I know band wagoning is fun, but still :/

When your speed, strength and intelligence is far, far, far, far below your opponents it's kinda hard to win the fight.

leonheartmm
never lifted over 10 tons????????

right right. well choosing the smallest example. goku weighs over half a ton himself. and he was working out in 100x gravity. how much weight does that make it? oh around more than 50 tons. that was pre super sayin. trunks stopped with a single hand, an energy blast with over 20 times the power to destroy a planet the size of namek. and he was SCHOOLED single handedly{literally} by super sayin 1 goku.

frieza KICKED with a single leg, an energy blast which exploded with an energy wave greater than namek and could destroy namek.

the androids were more powerful individually then all thre sayins combined at the time. all androids + sayins cmbined makes complete cell. complete cell could destroy the solar system. beginner super sayin 2 gohan schooled him. dont even get me started on gt.

not lift 10 tons my ASS. frieza regularly, pre super sayin punched through mountains.

llagrok
Cell could destroy a solar system, yet he had to destroy himself in order to take out earth?

Cool.

Here's why your logic doesn't work.

Odin is only class 80. Yet everything the Surfer has can't really harm him, nor could Thanos budge him. They easily destroy planets, yet can't make Odin budge.

Now, is Odin stronger than Superman?

leonheartmm
goku can instantly teleport. and before you say he cant control himself through reflexes. just remeber him stealing master roshi's glasses WHILE teleporting without master roshi finding out. furthermore, pre super sayin frieza was fighting so fast that even at 10 kilometres away, uber humans couldnt comprehend his movement through their 5 sense sor even their 6th sense of sensing ki.

lando005
Originally posted by Badabing
It depends...how much does it cost? $19.95 plus shipping and handling

llagrok
Originally posted by leonheartmm
goku can instantly teleport. and before you say he cant control himself through reflexes. just remeber him stealing master roshi's glasses WHILE teleporting without master roshi finding out. furthermore, pre super sayin frieza was fighting so fast that even at 10 kilometres away, uber humans couldnt comprehend his movement through their 5 sense sor even their 6th sense of sensing ki.

Master Roshi, there's a perceptive guy.

Please, don't start with speed. I'll call Avalon.

leonheartmm
its called a minor plot device my friend. to make the story interesting. superman took a galaxy destroying bomb but still gets down when a below asteroid destroying punch hits him? COOL.

intelligence is there to be used. the former example was a plot device. the later was not. if we go by your advice, youd only see planets exploding on dragon ball manga.

Faceman
Originally posted by llagrok
I know band wagoning is fun, but still :/

When your speed, strength and intelligence is far, far, far, far below your opponents it's kinda hard to win the fight.

Dude I cant pick a winner here, cause I don't know much of Goku.

Just making an example that strength isn't always everything in a fight.

llagrok
Originally posted by leonheartmm
its called a minor plot device my friend. to make the story interesting. superman took a galaxy destroying bomb but still gets down when a below asteroid destroying punch hits him? COOL.

intelligence is there to be used. the former example was a plot device. the later was not. if we go by your advice, youd only see planets exploding on dragon ball manga.

What is called a minor plot device?

Way to dodge all my points though. It's funny to see DBZ fanboys squeal when their beloved characters lose.

leonheartmm
call who? the guy who thinks superman travelling from one galaxy to the next in a couple of seconds should be taken as cannon?! GIMME A DAMN BREAK. its already been elaborated that superman can only go below lightspeed and after considerable effort. thats why he ALWAYS loses to flash. the feats of him travelling from the earth to the sun in 8 seconds is about as authentic as him absorbing the blast from the megido warhead or gl's destroying universe busters.

illadelph12
q1n6kEqv05c

kxlRvP4Pyq8

Some impressive battle feats in the clips...

llagrok
roll eyes (sarcastic)

Sure. Superman loses because Flash can go lightspeed and he can't.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by llagrok
What is called a minor plot device?

Way to dodge all my points though. It's funny to see DBZ fanboys squeal when their beloved characters lose.

says the man who cant get off supe's di_ _ long enough to read my post.

you made no points to begin with. just false testimony{never lifted over 10 tons} which i corrected{lifted over 50 tons in his pre super sayin training}.

if crap talk is your speciality then stick to it as opposed to pretending to have an argument. shouting your mouth off doesnt change the fact that your as out of your league here as you are in this world.

and this is coming form a man who doesnt even LIKE dragon ball. and prefers superman over goku as a better character overall.

leonheartmm
lol, why dont you take it up with the creators/old writers. theyl smack you a good one if you say supes can go beyond lightspeed. he is SPECIFICALLY below lightspeed now. one of his many post crisis power downs. cause beyond lightspeed, he could just spin in circles and time travel and the writers desperately wanted to get rid of it. why dont you go to dc's offical site and check out the man of steal's bio.

and yes, flash can also only go AT lightspeed in the normal world. when he goes beyond lightspeed he enters the spead force realm.

llagrok
Originally posted by leonheartmm
says the man who cant get off supe's di_ _ long enough to read my post.

you made no points to begin with. just false testimony{never lifted over 10 tons} which i corrected{lifted over 50 tons in his pre super sayin training}.

if crap talk is your speciality then stick to it as opposed to pretending to have an argument. shouting your mouth off doesnt change the fact that your as out of your league here as you are in this world.

and this is coming form a man who doesnt even LIKE dragon ball. and prefers superman over goku as a better character overall.

Insults, way of the articulate. I believe this is your second time today, good going!

Goku would have to lift in excess of at least a thousand tons to be anywhere near Superman's strength. You can't even compare them. His instant teleporting is also incredibly overrated. When Superman reacts many, many, many times faster than he does.

Being able to withstand a planet destroying blast isn't a strength feat by the way, even though you tried to pass it off as one. I guess that's how the DBZ guys roll. Since you refuse to accept any of Superman's feats, I'm leaving for tonight.

You can continue this with someone else. Or your clone; Quanchi.

Badabing
Originally posted by leonheartmm
says the man who cant get off supe's di_ _ long enough to read my post. Illadelph already edited one of your posts. Please be civil. duryes

llagrok
I haven't seen such great insults since Jack Harkness posted dur

leonheartmm
Originally posted by llagrok
Insults, way of the articulate. I believe this is your second time today, good going!

Goku would have to lift in excess of at least a thousand tons to be anywhere near Superman's strength. You can't even compare them. His instant teleporting is also incredibly overrated. When Superman reacts many, many, many times faster than he does.

Being able to withstand a planet destroying blast isn't a strength feat by the way, even though you tried to pass it off as one. I guess that's how the DBZ guys roll.

oh the IRONY roll eyes (sarcastic)

the only reason youve even lasted in these forums full of crybabies is because you manage to foul mouth enough for the opposition to think{this guy is hopeless}.

i was referring to his LOWEST strength feat at the time. it was simply to elaborate that your claim of him lifting 10 tons at max was totally false.
which you still have not admitted to. and my expirience tells, never will.

it was also to elaborate the fact that you havent ever seen the anime or read the full manga. as far as the planet destroying blasts go, yes it is a stregth feat. the FORCE blast that you divert with your physical prowess is a strength feat. also, the blast that goku created on namek PUSHED frieza into the ground and displayed BILLIONSof tones of earth. with a radius of 50 kilometres a whole was created much deeper than the ocean floor. it also BROKE frieza's tail.

what you are referring to are ENERGY blasts. and all blasts in dragon ball are both force AND ebergy. furthermore, there are examples of pre super sayin vegeta punching through mountains, if thats not a strength feat, i dont know what is.

and you keep saying that superman reacts MANY MANY times faster than he, but thats just an empty CLAIM, i already TOLD you how fast goku reacted even when he teleported. and yes master rochi is veyr good at detecting ki. and it was simply to elaborate that goku has reflexes enough to keep up with teleportation and even pre super sayin goku could divert thousands of mountain destroying energy blasts from frieza in a second with a single hand, no sweat.

leonheartmm
and i can have quite a civil tongue around people who dont start foulmouthing in the first place.

illadelph12
Leon, keep it clean. We're here to debate. You hinder your own argument coming unhinged.

Some evidence from either side wouldn't hurt either.

leonheartmm
anyway, were off topic.

for the current topic. pre crisis supes wins. no contest.

llagrok
I have in fact seen the whole anime, don't make wild claims like that. As for the manga, I've read up the Buu-saga, just after he absorbed Piccolo and Gotenks.

I'll use the same example as I did earlier. Odin is capable of brushing off attacks from the Surfer, who is more than capable of taking out planets. Yes, he can push the blasts away as well. That still doesn't make him capable of moving an entire planet.

Vegeta feats, cool. The man who could easily destroy planets during the Saiyan saga and then when he sacrificed himself to try and stop buu, he only made a small crater. Didn't he completely drain himself when using Final Flash against Cell? Once again only a planet buster. There's some serious lack of continuity in DBZ or just plain logic.

I wonder which it is.

Badabing
Originally posted by leonheartmm
anyway, were off topic.

for the current topic. pre crisis supes wins. no contest. What are your thoughts about Goku vs Silver Age Superman and current Superman?

superdur

leonheartmm
erm, what evidence? concerning the thread. pre crisis superman has more insane feats than the ALAMO. this fight is decided. and im too weary to go to the superman forum and discuss whether current superman can take on every dragon ball gt character simultaneously, with a bunch of cry babies and supe's boyscout buddies.

llagrok
Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm, what evidence? concerning the thread. pre crisis superman has more insane feats than the ALAMO. this fight is decided. and im too weary to go to the superman forum and discuss whether current superman can take on every dragon ball gt character simultaneously, with a bunch of cry babies and supe's boyscout buddies.

And to believe that we forgot how cool all the DBZ fanboys are.

Go put on your earrings and fusion with your neighbour's dog.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by llagrok
And to believe that we forgot how cool all the DBZ fanboys are.

Go put on your earrings and fusion with your neighbour's dog. That doesn't actually work.

llagrok
Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
That doesn't actually work.

That's weird.

It's probably because leon is already the fused form of Judge and his little asian friend.

illadelph12
There's a lot of pots talking about kettles around here lately.

llagrok

Faceman
Originally posted by llagrok
And to believe that we forgot how cool all the DBZ fanboys are.

Go put on your earrings and fusion with your neighbour's dog.

Know I'm starting to believe the other guys argument....

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by illadelph12
There's a lot of pots talking about kettles around here lately. Like this?
http://www.davidwilhite.com/LCD/003-PotAndKettle.jpg

?

llagrok
Tyrant, you've been waiting to post that all day, haven't you?

illadelph12
100% like that.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by llagrok
Tyrant, you've been waiting to post that all day, haven't you? No, I just found it.

Anyway... a tasty tidbit I found earlier, though.
Goku was able to stand up to a person who had the whole universe under seize...

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Badabing
What are your thoughts about Goku vs Silver Age Superman and current Superman?

superdur

hmmm. silver age was still pre crisis. albeit badly drawn. but the dude could blow away supernovae with his breath and absorb universes + time travel at will. no contest as i said.

current on the other hand isnt all that. he barely has planet destroying strength on average{both his end and low end feats considered}, needs time to accelerate to near lightspeed with great effort and although has super reflexes, cant very easily use his OWN body effectively at lightspeed. heat vision would definately damage super sayin goku as it is currently reaching omega affect{not plot device} in destructive power. supes forcefield however would crumble after only a few planet shattering kameha meha's. and speed n all will be countered by goku's own speed and teleportation.

the ONLY thing which might make supes take a win against upto super sayin 3 goku is the only thing not mentioned by his fanboys{makes sense as its SENSEIBLE}. V TORQUISM. that is one trump card i dont know HOW, will turn out. might take down goku easily. might now. dunno, but hes definately got a shot with it. ofcourse, hes not skilled enough with it to fully use it to its potential.

the fight i WOULD like to see against goku is with energy superman{my favourite incarnation} that would be sumthin really worth seeing{but not against gt characters, they are far too powerful}.

starking
How can Goku compete, with this version of Supes? He can supposedly fly to the end of the universe, in minutes. Goku can even teleport that far. Goku's not even as strong as post crisis Dc top tiers, let alone a pc kryptonian.

Even when it comes to flinging powerful attacks, Goku is outclassed. Pc Superman can sneeze out solar systems. NO Dbz character, displayed that level of power. The only person who showed greater than planetbusting power, was Broly. And like we know, he's a non canon character.

If z warriors were solar system busters, then why didn't Kidd Buu simply do that, when he went on a rampage? The fact thaat he had to destroy planets one by one, tells me he DOESN'T have that level of power.

To shorten things up, Supes is much faster and posses infinite strength. Infinite strength+nearly infinite speed=ass whooping for Kakarot.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by llagrok
And to believe that we forgot how cool all the DBZ fanboys are.

Go put on your earrings and fusion with your neighbour's dog.

im sorry, i just mistook your mouth for a broken sewage pipe.

llagrok
Originally posted by leonheartmm
im sorry, i just mistook your mouth for a broken sewage pipe.

Seeing as I'm typing with my fingers and you can't see nor hear me, that doesn't make much sense smile

Superman 10/10

illadelph12
I wonder how Supes would fair against Buu?

illadelph12
Leon...

llagrok
Originally posted by illadelph12
I wonder how Supes would fair against Buu?

Superman doesn't have a decent way of killing all the "buu cells" so that would be a tough one. I suppose melting him wouldn't work. Not sure about freezing either, Buu was pretty hard to stop. If he had used any form of cutting weapons I have a feeling Goku would've been in trouble.

Badabing
Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm. silver age was still pre crisis. albeit badly drawn. but the dude could blow away supernovae with his breath and absorb universes + time travel at will. no contest as i said.

current on the other hand isnt all that. he barely has planet destroying strength on average{both his end and low end feats considered}, needs time to accelerate to near lightspeed with great effort and although has super reflexes, cant very easily use his OWN body effectively at lightspeed. heat vision would definately damage super sayin goku as it is currently reaching omega affect{not plot device} in destructive power. supes forcefield however would crumble after only a few planet shattering kameha meha's. and speed n all will be countered by goku's own speed and teleportation.

the ONLY thing which might make supes take a win against upto super sayin 3 goku is the only thing not mentioned by his fanboys{makes sense as its SENSEIBLE}. V TORQUISM. that is one trump card i dont know HOW, will turn out. might take down goku easily. might now. dunno, but hes definately got a shot with it. ofcourse, hes not skilled enough with it to fully use it to its potential.

the fight i WOULD like to see against goku is with energy superman{my favourite incarnation} that would be sumthin really worth seeing{but not against gt characters, they are far too powerful}. That's a fair view and explanation. Thanks for taking the time. cool




Guys, for the love of dur, take it easy on Leon.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by llagrok
Seeing as I'm typing with my fingers and you can't see nor hear me, that doesn't make much sense smile

Superman 10/10

extrapolation and figurative speach is a sign of intelligence. re read my post and THINK this time "what am i missing here?". thats a good boy.

superman, the length of{oops, mods warned me so i shudnt say it} your most important appendege/10. {take a hint, supes doesnt stand a chance unless hes pre crisis}

goku, the length of MY most important appendeage/10. wink evil face

just a joke mate. learn to liven up a lil.

lol, keeping it clean. its a good fealing.

lando005
Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm. silver age was still pre crisis. albeit badly drawn. but the dude could blow away supernovae with his breath and absorb universes + time travel at will. no contest as i said.

current on the other hand isnt all that. he barely has planet destroying strength on average{both his end and low end feats considered}, needs time to accelerate to near lightspeed with great effort and although has super reflexes, cant very easily use his OWN body effectively at lightspeed. heat vision would definately damage super sayin goku as it is currently reaching omega affect{not plot device} in destructive power. supes forcefield however would crumble after only a few planet shattering kameha meha's. and speed n all will be countered by goku's own speed and teleportation.

the ONLY thing which might make supes take a win against upto super sayin 3 goku is the only thing not mentioned by his fanboys{makes sense as its SENSEIBLE}. V TORQUISM. that is one trump card i dont know HOW, will turn out. might take down goku easily. might now. dunno, but hes definately got a shot with it. ofcourse, hes not skilled enough with it to fully use it to its potential.

the fight i WOULD like to see against goku is with energy superman{my favourite incarnation} that would be sumthin really worth seeing{but not against gt characters, they are far too powerful}.
this is by far the most fair posting i have ever seen by a superman fan on the whole goku vs superman debate still a little heavy on sups side but still damn fair

joesdabest1
i think goku wins because dragonball z is cooler

illadelph12
You know, for all the bluster, this thread hasn't done to badly Bada...

llagrok
Originally posted by Badabing
That's a fair view and explanation. Thanks for taking the time. cool

Guys, for the love of dur, take it easy on Leon.

Nope.

Anyways, Superman freezes Goku and tosses him into space smile

Illa, how's the Zero Tolerance policy coming along?

Badabing
Originally posted by illadelph12
You know, for all the bluster, this thread hasn't done to badly Bada... I know. I'm actually getting some good insights on Goku and his powers.

llagrok
Originally posted by Badabing
I know. I'm actually getting some good insights on Goku and his powers.

Fun series, I enjoyed watching them.

Of course, that was before I had demonoid.

illadelph12
Originally posted by llagrok
Nope.

Anyways, Superman freezes Goku and tosses him into space smile

Illa, how's the Zero Tolerance policy coming along?

So far so good. I've been called Hitler and some racial slurs I'd rather not rehash, but I've really got the forums best interests at heart. Anyone that knows me knows I'm a fair and personable cat. People just are hesitant and sometimes downright volatile to change.

I'm trying to enforce the KMC Equivalent of Brown vs. The Board of education. I expected some retaliation.

Badabing
Originally posted by llagrok
Fun series, I enjoyed watching them.

Of course, that was before I had demonoid. You said NO to the dur. llagrok, don't ever go against the dur again. no expression


durfist


I have never been into DBZ much. I watched when it first came out. I'm glad some of the DBZ fans are posting. cool

llagrok
Originally posted by Badabing
You said NO to the dur. llagrok, don't ever go against the dur again. no expression

durfist

I have never been into DBZ much. I watched when it first came out. I'm glad some of the DBZ fans are posting. cool

You left the Mongooses, that was worse sad|

Originally posted by illadelph12
So far so good. I've been called Hitler and some racial slurs I'd rather not rehash, but I've really got the forums best interests at heart. Anyone that knows me knows I'm a fair and personable cat. People just are hesitant and sometimes downright volatile to change.

I'm trying to enforce the KMC Equivalent of Brown vs. The Board of education. I expected some retaliation.

I was kinda hoping you'd go Bastion on Leon's ass.

Badabing
Originally posted by llagrok
You left the Mongooses, that was worse sad| I had to back Marea, it's an Italian thing. Plus the thread was so tense and negative.

lando005
i'm currently working on a system that would offer fair and unbias comparisons between dbz characters and comic characters

Creshosk
Originally posted by lando005
i'm currently working on a system that would offer fair and unbias comparisons between dbz characters and comic characters If successful and they work. I look foreward to it.

lando005
Originally posted by Creshosk
If successful and they work. I look foreward to it. i actually made a semi working system back when i first started watchin dbz back in HS so i have to revamp and update it now... there will have to be some compromise on both sides though

Badabing
Originally posted by lando005
i actually made a semi working system back when i first started watchin dbz back in HS so i have to revamp and update it now... there will have to be some compromise on both sides though I'm looking forward to learning a bit more about DBZ.

lando005
Originally posted by Badabing
I'm looking forward to learning a bit more about DBZ. if they remade the series in a serious tone it would actually be pretty good

Endless Mike
Something people often forget is that Goku can only maintain SSJ3 form for one minute

Besides, even against Post - Crisis Superman, I haven't seen any strength, speed, or durability feats that would put him in his class. Most arguments in Goku's favor go along the line of "Well character A did feat X, and character B is stronger than character A, and character C is stronger than character B, and Goku is stronger than character C, so Goku can do way more than feat X" which is rather flawed logic when you break it down. I could say how the Punisher beat Spider-man, Spider-man beat Firelord, Firelord can destroy planets, therefore the Punisher can destroy planets.

It doesn't work that way.

lando005
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Something people often forget is that Goku can only maintain SSJ3 form for one minute

Besides, even against Post - Crisis Superman, I haven't seen any strength, speed, or durability feats that would put him in his class. Most arguments in Goku's favor go along the line of "Well character A did feat X, and character B is stronger than character A, and character C is stronger than character B, and Goku is stronger than character C, so Goku can do way more than feat X" which is rather flawed logic when you break it down. I could say how the Punisher beat Spider-man, Spider-man beat Firelord, Firelord can destroy planets, therefore the Punisher can destroy planets.

It doesn't work that way. which is why i'm working on a stat rating that would give us some clear answers

by the way he can hold ssj3 for atleast 30 mins and 4 for about 20

i'm also calculating transformation time

illadelph12
If he can only hold that form for a minute then they must move beyond light speed. I've seen Goku in SSJ3 for 3 straight 30 minute episodes. DBZ's physics are completely different than DC's, and you can't impose them on the DBZ characters. The fight is on neutral ground where both character's native universe's physics work at optimum efficiency.

Supes gets all his tricks and Goku gets all of his.

Phenomenol
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Something people often forget is that Goku can only maintain SSJ3 form for one minute

Besides, even against Post - Crisis Superman, I haven't seen any strength, speed, or durability feats that would put him in his class. Most arguments in Goku's favor go along the line of "Well character A did feat X, and character B is stronger than character A, and character C is stronger than character B, and Goku is stronger than character C, so Goku can do way more than feat X" which is rather flawed logic when you break it down. I could say how the Punisher beat Spider-man, Spider-man beat Firelord, Firelord can destroy planets, therefore the Punisher can destroy planets.

It doesn't work that way.

Uh, yes it does work that way. Goku beat up beings who can destroy planets, Solar Systems and Galaxies.

Goku >>>>>> Any Superman.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Phenomenol
Uh, yes it does work that way. Goku beat up beings who can destroy planets, Solar Systems and Galaxies.

Goku >>>>>> Any Superman. PC Supes sneezed and destroyed solar systems. ermm

I'm pretty sure that ahs to count for something.

Harry Fingerman
I've seen Goku maintain it for longer than that...

Also, the problem with your analogy, is that all DBZ fighters have basically the same powers, super strength, speed, ki blasts (whether they differ right now, is irrelevant), but they are on different levels.

The closest comparisons of comics are, when a comic character gets powered-up. Superman is sundipped vs Superman not sundipped, would be akin to comparing two Z fighters.
Not, Spider-Man or Firelord.

Phenomenol
Originally posted by Creshosk
PC Supes sneezed and destroyed solar systems. ermm

I'm pretty sure that ahs to count for something.

That is because the 5th dimensional Imps magical dust was sprinkled on him.

Even humans were sneezing out windows from the Imp's dust.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Phenomenol
That is because the 5th dimensional Imps magical dust was sprinkled on him.

Even humans were sneezing out windows from the Imp's dust. That's only an explination as to why he was sneezing, not the power of the sneezes. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Phenomenol
That is because the 5th dimensional Imps magical dust was sprinkled on him.

Even humans were sneezing out windows from the Imp's dust.

It was just sneezing powder. It makes you sneeze, and doesn't give you extra power.

Also no one in canon DBZ has ever destroyed more than a planet.

Phenomenol
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It was just sneezing powder. It makes you sneeze, and doesn't give you extra power.

Also no one in canon DBZ has ever destroyed more than a planet.

Wrong, the DUST is what gave them the power to do what they did.

Dragonball Z is filled with planet busters, Solar System Busters and Universe destroyers!

illadelph12
To be fair, the properties of that magical sneezing powder weren't clearly defined. You can't definitively say it only caused him to sneeze regularly. I'm pretty sure in Clark's day to day life he wasn't blowing away solar systems due to allergies.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by illadelph12
To be fair, the properties of that magical sneezing powder weren't clearly defined. You can't definitively say it only caused him to sneeze regularly. I'm pretty sure in Clark's day to day life he wasn't blowing away solar systems due to allergies.

Actually Superman blew out stars before and moved stars and planets with his breath. A sneeze to a normal human is nearly one hundred times more powerful than us blowing out on our own. It was Clarks own power and not the powder.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Phenomenol
Wrong, the DUST is what gave them the power to do what they did.

Dragonball Z is filled with planet busters, Solar System Busters and Universe destroyers!
I dont' know about Solar System or Universal Busters. But They would have a tough time in comics. The heroes and even villians would pwn them or laugh at them. Can you imagine goku trying to fight Dr. Light. He'd get owned with his own powers.

illadelph12
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Actually Superman blew out stars before and moved stars and planets with his breath. A sneeze to a normal human is nearly one hundred times more powerful than us blowing out on our own. It was Clarks own power and not the powder.

And you have definitive proof of that?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Phenomenol
Wrong, the DUST is what gave them the power to do what they did.

Dragonball Z is filled with planet busters, Solar System Busters and Universe destroyers! Can you prove that without using hearsay and hyperbole?

Them actually doing it rather than just talking about it?

And no ad hoc speculation either, no "well; they were this powerful then and they got even more powerful so..."

The Great Galen

dawsey28
confused

the Darkone
PC Superman will beat any form of Goku, PC Superman was faster than light, nearly indestructible, super genius level intelligent. PC Superman will hit Goku so fast ans so hard, Goku would be put into a coma, or PC Superman will through a planet at Goku.

Sandai Kitetsu
About Son goku's lifting strength, when he was training on Kaiokai. He had four weights strapped on him that each weighed two tons a piece making a total of 8 tons. South Kai increased the weights by 8 more tons, making the total weight ten tons a piece. That's a total of 40 tons, and when Goku transformed into a Supa Saiyai-jin, he carried said weights easily. Furthermore, those weights were not actually the stated weight since kaiokai's planet has a gravity that is 10 times that of earth. Meaning that his weights are not relative to the weights on earth, plus he had heavy clothing.

bean_machine
Originally posted by leonheartmm
call who? the guy who thinks superman travelling from one galaxy to the next in a couple of seconds should be taken as cannon?! GIMME A DAMN BREAK. its already been elaborated that superman can only go below lightspeed and after considerable effort. thats why he ALWAYS loses to flash. the feats of him travelling from the earth to the sun in 8 seconds is about as authentic as him absorbing the blast from the megido warhead or gl's destroying universe busters.

Post crisis superman has been shown to have FTL speed many occasions. I've made posts with images in the Goku vs Supes thread in the game vs section.

Superboy Prime
What a noob. Supes doesn't hit light speed on earth because he would end up destroying everything on earth.

Superboy Prime
Movie Superman time travels and lifts islands made out of kryptonite....and yet his non-comic appearances are weak?

durlaugh

bean_machine
Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol, why dont you take it up with the creators/old writers. theyl smack you a good one if you say supes can go beyond lightspeed. he is SPECIFICALLY below lightspeed now. one of his many post crisis power downs. cause beyond lightspeed, he could just spin in circles and time travel and the writers desperately wanted to get rid of it. why dont you go to dc's offical site and check out the man of steal's bio.

and yes, flash can also only go AT lightspeed in the normal world. when he goes beyond lightspeed he enters the spead force realm.

You need to read up on Flash and Supes because you are very wrong.

Badabing
I may move this to PR's Superman forum...mmm

the Darkone
PC Superman pisses on Goku, DBZ are not in the same league with DC or Marvel. PC Superman throws planets like they where baseballs.

marwash22
tell that to the fanboys in the anime vs. American thread.

Endless Mike
Who the hell bumped this ancient thread?

Black bolt z
Depends what level goku can amp to.If he can go SS2 or higher supes gets trumped.SS2-4. can easily destroy planets

rotiart
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Depends what level goku can amp to.If he can go SS2 or higher supes gets trumped.SS2-4. can easily destroy planets

So can superman...

JakeTheBank
Superman doesn't need to be Pre Crisis to win this.

Spite.

Black bolt z
Depends what level goku can amp to.High he wins.No SS he loses badly.

JakeTheBank
There really isn't a level he can amp to that PC Superman doesn't beat him.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
There really isn't a level he can amp to that PC Superman doesn't beat him. Possibly SS2 and most likely SS3-4.Did you even watch DBZ?

Badabing
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Possibly SS2 and most likely SS3-4.Did you even watch DBZ? He's watched more DBZ than you've read PC Supes.

Blanket
Originally posted by Badabing
I may move this to PR's Superman forum...mmm Close my thread, and bump yours.

I see how this is.

Badabing
Originally posted by Blanket
Close my thread, and bump yours.

I see how this is. mmm

What thread of yours did I close?

Black bolt z
Most likely.I have however read PC supes and IMO a high amped Goku can take supes semi easily.

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