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No prep. The both start out with a spear, sword and shield. Who wins this?

Achilles ... fairly easily.

Achilles, was the truth baby, he'd more than likely end the fight in under 3 minutes.

If it's the characters from the movie Leonidas wuld win.

Historically Achilles wuld kill him.

Achilles.

Achilles....

Duh?

Leonidas no problem.

Achilles from the movie wasn't trained from birth, nor was he as physically strong. And I seriously doubt that he could beat the super human that Leonidas did and he definitely wouldn't stand a chance against a giant wolf with nothing but a sharpened stick.


The fact is Achilles doesn't stand a chance.

Why doesn't anyone here know that?

Achilles.

Achilles was invincible, right?

Originally posted by braz
Achilles was invincible, right?


Not from the movie Troy.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Leonidas no problem.

Achilles from the movie wasn't trained from birth, nor was he as physically strong. And I seriously doubt that he could beat the super human that Leonidas did and he definitely wouldn't stand a chance against a giant wolf with nothing but a sharpened stick.


The fact is Achilles doesn't stand a chance.

Why doesn't anyone here know that?

Achilles takes this 9/10

he easily killed Nathan Jones with one shot!
Leonidas could'nt kill that Persian f@g Xerces!

Originally posted by colonelf40
Achilles takes this 9/10

he easily killed Nathan Jones with one shot!
Leonidas could'nt kill that Persian f@g Xerces!
Maybe because he didn't want to kill Xerxes.

Take off Priest's sig....

Achilles threw that spear threw that guys head from pretty damn far away. Throw was fast as hell and went right through his neck. Leonides just cut Xerxes face. Achilles would have put the spear through that **** head. Achilles in a stomp.

Originally posted by playa1258
Achilles threw that spear threw that guys head from pretty damn far away. Throw was fast as hell and went right through his neck. Leonides just cut Xerxes face. Achilles would have put the spear through that **** head. Achilles in a stomp.

Xerxes was over a mile away, thats the only reason Leonidas missed.

They both had their bad ass moments, but Leonidas would win with his superior shield bashing.

Leonidas had a far better movie anyway.

Raoh would crush both of them!

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
If it's the characters from the movie Leonidas wuld win.

Historically Achilles wuld kill him.

the characters in question are from the movie.

Personally, I think this fight would be similar to the Achilles/Hector fight. Achilles toys with Leonidas before ending him.

Achilles would embarrass Leonidas. Even movie version was above any other human in hand to hand combat.

Achilles 9/10.

I'd go as far as say Hector could take Loenidas as well.

Originally posted by boriquaking55


I'd go as far as say Hector could take Loenidas as well.


I think a lot of people would disagree with this, but I think you are right.

Originally posted by Soops220
I think a lot of people would disagree with this, but I think you are right.

he could win at least a few matches outta ten, I'm willing to bet.

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
If it's the characters from the movie Leonidas wuld win.

Historically Achilles wuld kill him.



Leonidas was the only strictly historical figure here. Achilles is a mythical figure (maybe originally based on a real person).

From the film characters I would give Achilles a slight edge as he appears faster

Originally posted by severance
Leonidas was the only strictly historical figure here. Achilles is a mythical figure (maybe originally based on a real person).

From the film characters I would give Achilles a slight edge as he appears faster

I think he means 'mythic Achilles would kill him.'

But, then, he's a Wolverine fan, so we pardon little lapses of vocabulary.

leonidas kills this achilles, he isnt the unbeatbale one from mythology. he was damn good but paris killed him. i mean come on paris. leonidas wins this epic battle of swordmanship.

Originally posted by quanchi112
leonidas kills this achilles, he isnt the unbeatbale one from mythology. he was damn good but paris killed him. i mean come on paris. leonidas wins this epic battle of swordmanship.


That and Leonidas has much much better feats.


Leonidas was over 50 years old in the movie, in his prime, he would have slaughtered movie Achilles, and ripped out mythical Achilles' Achilles tendon with his teeth.

Originally posted by King_Cold
That and Leonidas has much much better feats.


Leonidas was over 50 years old in the movie, in his prime, he would have slaughtered movie Achilles, and ripped out mythical Achilles' Achilles tendon with his teeth.

Doesn't matter. If you're gonna go into situational scenarios, then we might as well bring in achilles that was invulnerable save for his achilles' heel, i.e. mythical achilles vs. movie leonidas.

i wouldn't say leonidas had better feats. it was established in the beginning of troy that achilles was far and above the best warrior of the greeks and that agammemnon used him extensively and exclusively to end wars and bring entire armies down.

achilles and his myrmidons single-handidly took the trojan beach before the rest of the greeks even arrived. that's an offensive force taking out prepared defenders in a fortified position.

achilles defeated hector 1 v 1. hector was the greatest warrior in the greatest kingdom of the east. he had successfully repelled all attackers of troy. achilles brought him down.

and the main reason: achilles says to priam "your son was the best I've fought" i.e. Hector.

what does that mean? it means achilles had NEVER lost a fight EVER, and Hector was the closest he had ever gotten to losing.

the wars of agammemnon conquering all of greece and movie on to troy were more numerous than the petty city-state battles that sparta fought against athens and whoever else. agammemnon and achilles=wars of conquest, leonidas/sparta=petty, inter-city-state wars, until the persian invasion.

can we say that leonidas never lost? no we can't. IIRC, leonidas has a large scar across his face. achilles has no scars at all. hector scratched his armor with his sword tip and achilles said hector was the best he ever fought. who can you say is the better fighter now?

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Doesn't matter. If you're gonna go into situational scenarios, then we might as well bring in achilles that was invulnerable save for his achilles' heel, i.e. mythical achilles vs. movie leonidas.

i wouldn't say leonidas had better feats. it was established in the beginning of troy that achilles was far and above the best warrior of the greeks and that agammemnon used him extensively and exclusively to end wars and bring entire armies down.

achilles and his myrmidons single-handidly took the trojan beach before the rest of the greeks even arrived. that's an offensive force taking out prepared defenders in a fortified position.

achilles defeated hector 1 v 1. hector was the greatest warrior in the greatest kingdom of the east. he had successfully repelled all attackers of troy. achilles brought him down.

and the main reason: achilles says to priam "your son was the best I've fought" i.e. Hector.

what does that mean? it means achilles had NEVER lost a fight EVER, and Hector was the closest he had ever gotten to losing.

the wars of agammemnon conquering all of greece and movie on to troy were more numerous than the petty city-state battles that sparta fought against athens and whoever else. agammemnon and achilles=wars of conquest, leonidas/sparta=petty, inter-city-state wars, until the persian invasion.

can we say that leonidas never lost? no we can't. IIRC, leonidas has a large scar across his face. achilles has no scars at all. hector scratched his armor with his sword tip and achilles said hector was the best he ever fought. who can you say is the better fighter now?


Achilles never fought anyone nearly as strong as the people that Leonidas did. Leonidas fought under worse circumstances than Achilles, thats why he got the scar, he fought the Immortals, and won.

In the Hot Gates alone he fought and killed more than Achilles did in his life time.

Leonidas accomplished more too, he made Sparta more powerful than Athenians for a brief amount of time, and thats saying a lot for a psychotic warrior society.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Achilles never fought anyone nearly as strong as the people that Leonidas did. Leonidas fought under worse circumstances than Achilles, thats why he got the scar, he fought the Immortals, and won.

IIRC Leonidas had the scar at the start of the movie. Achilles and agammemnon also conquered sparta....where one day leonidas would be named king.

true achilles never fought anyone that movie leonidas did. that's because leonidas comes from a comic book, and achilles comes from the director's interpretation. the immortals leonidas fought were some kind of inhuman warriors created by xerxes and his "dark magic"....we can't really compare the actual armies that achilles and leonidas fought (very losely based historical trojan army vs. extremely stylized, comic book-adapted persian army "from hell"

we can compare 1 v 1 battles, like achilles vs. nathan jones, achilles vs. hector, leonidas vs. wolf, leonidas vs. xerxes

Originally posted by King_Cold
Achilles never fought anyone nearly as strong as the people that Leonidas did. Leonidas fought under worse circumstances than Achilles, thats why he got the scar, he fought the Immortals, and won.

In the Hot Gates alone he fought and killed more than Achilles did in his life time.

Leonidas accomplished more too, he made Sparta more powerful than Athenians for a brief amount of time, and thats saying a lot for a psychotic warrior society.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
IIRC Leonidas had the scar at the start of the movie. Achilles and agammemnon also conquered sparta....where one day leonidas would be named king.

true achilles never fought anyone that movie leonidas did. that's because leonidas comes from a comic book, and achilles comes from the director's interpretation. the immortals leonidas fought were some kind of inhuman warriors created by xerxes and his "dark magic"....we can't really compare the actual armies that achilles and leonidas fought (very losely based historical trojan army vs. extremely stylized, comic book-adapted persian army "from hell"

we can compare 1 v 1 battles, like achilles vs. nathan jones, achilles vs. hector, leonidas vs. wolf, leonidas vs. xerxes

The giant super Human that Leonidas fought while his army was fighting the immortals was named Hubris. And Nathan Jones was name Boagreos (Spelling) in the movie.

Hubris was slightly smaller, but much stronger than Boagreas. Hubris kicked Psaunias a good 20 feet into the wall of dead bodies, and grabbed Leonidas' spear in mid air. I thought that Leonidas was done for when I first saw it, but he over came all odds, something Achilles couldn't do.

In the slow motion fight it is proven that Leonidas was slightly faster than movie Achilles.

right hubris. didn't leonidas get saved by one of his soldiers vs. hubris? can't recall.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
right hubris. didn't leonidas get saved by one of his soldiers vs. hubris? can't recall.

Yes, a surprise attack by Hubris was halted by Psaniuos (Spelling)

Hubris was shown to be much stronger than Boagreous.

Originally posted by King_Cold
The giant super Human that Leonidas fought while his army was fighting the immortals was named Hubris. And Nathan Jones was name Boagreos (Spelling) in the movie.

Hubris was slightly smaller, but much stronger than Boagreas. Hubris kicked Psaunias a good 20 feet into the wall of dead bodies, and grabbed Leonidas' spear in mid air. I thought that Leonidas was done for when I first saw it, but he over came all odds, something Achilles couldn't do.

In the slow motion fight it is proven that Leonidas was slightly faster than movie Achilles.


Achilles Feats
Boagreus, played by 6'10" Nathan Jones was taken out by Achilles in one shot.
He plus 50 myrmidons took the beach alone
Able to slice the head off a bronze statue of apollo
Able to throw a spear what appeared to be a quarter mile and slay one of Hector's men
Took out Hector himself i get the impression that he was not really in any danger and was toying with the man.
When he fought the Greeks won. When he didn't they lost
Taken out by chicken sh!t arrows from Paris, while rescuing the priestess (how ignominious)

Leonidas feats
He and 300 held off wave after wave of Persians and destroyed many of the immortals.
300 even managed to take out some giant LOTR style elephants
Took out Hubris very impressive but it was a close run thing he nearly lost it
even managed to wound god-like Xerxes
taken out by a million Persian arrows

On balance I still think Achilles takes it he seems unbelivably confident very fast very very strong. No one comes close to hurting him one on one.

Originally posted by severance
Achilles Feats
Boagreus, played by 6'10" Nathan Jones was taken out by Achilles in one shot.
He plus 50 myrmidons took the beach alone
Able to slice the head off a bronze statue of apollo
Able to throw a spear what appeared to be a quarter mile and slay one of Hector's men
Took out Hector himself i get the impression that he was not really in any danger and was toying with the man.
When he fought the Greeks won. When he didn't they lost
Taken out by chicken sh!t arrows from Paris, while rescuing the priestess (how ignominious)

Leonidas feats
He and 300 held off wave after wave of Persians and destroyed many of the immortals.
300 even managed to take out some giant LOTR style elephants
Took out Hubris very impressive but it was a close run thing he nearly lost it
even managed to wound god-like Xerxes
taken out by a million Persian arrows

On balance I still think Achilles takes it he seems unbelivably confident very fast very very strong. No one comes close to hurting him one on one.

Hubris would have killed him.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Hubris would have killed him.


Hubris would have died from a spear through his giant head before he got close to Achilles. If he was lucky enough to avoid this he would not have a hope of hitting achilles. Since Achilles can cut through solid bronze with his sword I should imagine he would have lost a few limbs before being ultimately executed by Achilles

Originally posted by severance
Hubris would have died from a spear through his giant head before he got close to Achilles. If he was lucky enough to avoid this he would not have a hope of hitting achilles. Since Achilles can cut through solid bronze with his sword I should imagine he would have lost a few limbs before being ultimately executed by Achilles


Hubris would catch his spear in mid air.

Hubris is a super human. He is fast as well as strong. He would out muscle Achilles like Achilles out muscled Hector.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Hubris would catch his spear in mid air.

Hubris is a super human. He is fast as well as strong. He would out muscle Achilles like Achilles out muscled Hector.

I don't doubt Hubris is superhuman. As is the film Achilles. I don't get the impression from the film that Hubris is fast enough to catch a spear doing a couple of hundred miles an hour.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Achilles, was the truth baby, he'd more than likely end the fight in under 3 minutes.

3 minutes....that generous.

brad pitt, er... Achilles would dispatch leonidas with great ease. Achillis is noted for being the greatest warrior ever. Leonidas is noted for dying well.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Leonidas no problem.

Achilles from the movie wasn't trained from birth

no, he was only trained by the Gods

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
3 minutes....that generous.

brad pitt, er... Achilles would dispatch leonidas with great ease. Achillis is noted for being the greatest warrior ever. Leonidas is noted for dying well.

Achilles died too.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
no, he was only trained by the Gods

Not in the movie.

First we are not talking about mythical Achilles, we are talking about a realistic yet powerful warrior. Leonidas when he was 50 years old isn't even an unfair match, because we all saw how fast and how strong he was. Achilles wasn't as muscularly defined as Leonidas was, and Leonidas was 50! Leonidas killed way more soldiers in the battle of the Hot Gates than Achilles did in the battle of Troy.


According to feats, Leonidas would trash movie Achilles.

As far as the spear throwing goes Leonidas was distracted from hitting Xerxes by hundreds of spears and arrows where as Achilles had a clear target at a closer target when he hit the Calvary unit.

Leonidas was not the strongest of the 300, that title would go to the captain's son (I forgot his name.) He killed a Rhino, and hundreds of calvary, foot, wild animal and super human units.

Achilles destroys Leonidas in this fight. He is superior in every way.

1) He is better throwing spears. Achilles can throw a spear further and more accurate than Leonidas(this is proven, Achilles throws is spear further and hits his target perfectly, Leonidas throws a much shorter distance and misses.

2) Achilles is skilled at fighting with a spear at close combat. We can't be sure how good Leonidas is at close range with a spear.

3) Both men fight a huge man in the movies. Now there is no denying the giant Leonidas fights is tougher than the giant muscle man at the beginning of Troy, we can all agree that they are both big, strong men. The difference is Leonidas would of lost to his without help, Achilles kills his man with one blow, after just waking up and having sex all night.

4)I have many more points, but i'll end it with just one more. Leonidas, himself says that without the man next to him, he is as good as dead. They are trained to fight as a team. This fight is one on one. Achilles specialty. He goes country to country killing their best warriors one on one, its what he does and he doesn't even get touched. The best warrior he's every faced(Hector) was only able to scrape his armor.

Clearly Achilles wins this 9/10

Originally posted by Soops220
Achilles destroys Leonidas in this fight. He is superior in every way.

1) He is better throwing spears. Achilles can throw a spear further and more accurate than Leonidas(this is proven, Achilles throws is spear further and hits his target perfectly, Leonidas throws a much shorter distance and misses.

2) Achilles is skilled at fighting with a spear at close combat. We can't be sure how good Leonidas is at close range with a spear.

3) Both men fight a huge man in the movies. Now there is no denying the giant Leonidas fights is tougher than the giant muscle man at the beginning of Troy, we can all agree that they are both big, strong men. The difference is Leonidas would of lost to his without help, Achilles kills his man with one blow, after just waking up and having sex all night.

4)I have many more points, but i'll end it with just one more. Leonidas, himself says that without the man next to him, he is as good as dead. They are trained to fight as a team. This fight is one on one. Achilles specialty. He goes country to country killing their best warriors one on one, its what he does and he doesn't even get touched. The best warrior he's every faced(Hector) was only able to scrape his armor.

Clearly Achilles wins this 9/10 achilles had a cakewalk in his movie of troy. he wasnt stuck with 299 men and some pansies. his opposotion was no where near as menacing as the persians were in 300. the odds were almost insurmountable and leonidas wouldnt have lost if it wasnt for the hunchback. sorry but leonidas died like a man while achilles was killed by the biggest sissy in the movie of troy. paris.


leonidas wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
achilles had a cakewalk in his movie of troy. he wasnt stuck with 299 men and some pansies. his opposotion was no where near as menacing as the persians were in 300. the odds were almost insurmountable and leonidas wouldnt have lost if it wasnt for the hunchback. sorry but leonidas died like a man while achilles was killed by the biggest sissy in the movie of troy. paris.


leonidas wins.

Achilles did have a cakewalk becuase he was so dominant. The trojans were at that time the greatest army in the east. And yet at no time in the movie was he under any threat of being harmed in hand to hand. The movie implies this is where the myth of him being invulnerable arose. He was taken out by Paris, as I said b4 with chicken sh!t arrows while he was trying to save the priestess. One on one he was unstoppable.
He did have 50 myrmidons with him when he took the beach of troy but the movie again implies that he was the main impetus in taking the beach. Remember he had no tactical advantage on the wide open beach. At the battle of Thermopylae Leonidas had taken advantage of a natural funnel so that the Persinas could not overwhelm them with numbers and outflank them.

Leonidas did not then go on to mythical status as the greatest ever Greek warrior. Achilles did.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Not in the movie.

First we are not talking about mythical Achilles, we are talking about a realistic yet powerful warrior. Leonidas when he was 50 years old isn't even an unfair match, because we all saw how fast and how strong he was. Achilles wasn't as muscularly defined as Leonidas was, and Leonidas was 50! Leonidas killed way more soldiers in the battle of the Hot Gates than Achilles did in the battle of Troy.


According to feats, Leonidas would trash movie Achilles.

If we are talking realistically, and not just the movie characters. Achilles claimed far more lives of men than Leonidas. IF we are talking only about the movies though. I still say it goes to Achilles. His fighting tactis were reveared and renowned. He storms the beaches of Troy without hesitation with only he and fifty men. Taking the the lead position he cuts through a barrage of enemies easily. There is no other warrior who can match his abilities. Even when he dropped his gaurd to play with Hecter, (troy's finest soldier) He embarasses his competition. Leonidas a fine soldier, has no feats in his movie or in history that overshadow Achilles. Achilles is remembered as the finest warrior that ever existed. I just dont find any reason to argue this when Leonidas didnt display anything in his movie that Achilles didnt do in Troy.

Originally posted by severance
Achilles did have a cakewalk becuase he was so dominant. The trojans were at that time the greatest army in the east. And yet at no time in the movie was he under any threat of being harmed in hand to hand. The movie implies this is where the myth of him being invulnerable arose. He was taken out by Paris, as I said b4 with chicken sh!t arrows while he was trying to save the priestess. One on one he was unstoppable.
He did have 50 myrmidons with him when he took the beach of troy but the movie again implies that he was the main impetus in taking the beach. Remember he had no tactical advantage on the wide open beach. At the battle of Thermopylae Leonidas had taken advantage of a natural funnel so that the Persinas could not overwhelm them with numbers and outflank them.

Leonidas did not then go on to mythical status as the greatest ever Greek warrior. Achilles did.


Also Achilles took the beach of Troy with just a few men. The Trojans had the high ground and greatly outnumbered them. Achilles was able to take the beach without being touched. Leonidas and his men had stone walls protecting them on both sides. Once they were in the open you saw how easy it was to take them down. I can't see him storming the beach with a handful of men. "

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
If we are talking realistically, and not just the movie characters. Achilles claimed far more lives of men than Leonidas. IF we are talking only about the movies though. I still say it goes to Achilles. His fighting tactis were reveared and renowned. He storms the beaches of Troy without hesitation with only he and fifty men. Taking the the lead position he cuts through a barrage of enemies easily. There is no other warrior who can match his abilities. Even when he dropped his gaurd to play with Hecter, (troy's finest soldier) He embarasses his competition. Leonidas a fine soldier, has no feats in his movie or in history that overshadow Achilles. Achilles is remembered as the finest warrior that ever existed. I just dont find any reason to argue this when Leonidas didnt display anything in his movie that Achilles didnt do in Troy.

You don't realize that if Achilles was in Leonidas' position he would have died fighting the calvary units in the first battle scene. And he wouldn't stand a chance against the immortals.

Achilles took down only light infantry units a big dumb guy, and one well trained Prince.

Leonidas took down calvary units, light infantry, inhuman monsters, and Hubris who had super strength!

Its hard to compare Achilles' enemies and Leonidas' enemies because the 300 had much much better fight scenes than Troy. But Xerxes army was armed with better weapons simply because it was long after the battle of Troy.

Originally posted by King_Cold
You don't realize that if Achilles was in Leonidas' position he would have died fighting the calvary units in the first battle scene. And he wouldn't stand a chance against the immortals.

Achilles took down only light infantry units a big dumb guy, and one well trained Prince.

Leonidas took down calvary units, light infantry, inhuman monsters, and Hubris who had super strength!

Its hard to compare Achilles' enemies and Leonidas' enemies because the 300 had much much better fight scenes than Troy. But Xerxes army was armed with better weapons simply because it was long after the battle of Troy.

while achilles army was losing he was chilling in his tent becuz he was pissed at the king. he had to sneak in on the trojan horse to defeat this obvioulsy weaker army to be killed by the movies biggest pansy.

paris that tricky devil. u killed achilles.

Originally posted by King_Cold
You don't realize that if Achilles was in Leonidas' position he would have died fighting the calvary units in the first battle scene. And he wouldn't stand a chance against the immortals.

Achilles took down only light infantry units a big dumb guy, and one well trained Prince.

Leonidas took down calvary units, light infantry, inhuman monsters, and Hubris who had super strength!

Its hard to compare Achilles' enemies and Leonidas' enemies because the 300 had much much better fight scenes than Troy. But Xerxes army was armed with better weapons simply because it was long after the battle of Troy.

NB inhuman monsters does not make skillful fighters. There may be a morale factor here, but i do not think Achilles and his Myrmidons could be accused of suffering from fear. Remember 50 men versus Troy on open ground - takes some balls. He was not even afraid to offend the gods by desecrating apollo's temple.

also as previously discussed Hubris super strong, so is Achilles. if you don't believe me tell me who in the world can toss a spear that far and that fast. No Olympic athlete that I know can come even close to that feat. Achilles is clearly very strong and also very fast as even in the thick of battle with multiple men he attacking him he was not even scratched. he dodged spears being chucked at him as if they were moving in slow motion.

Leonidas = famous Greek warrior
Achilles = the greatest ever Greek warrior

Originally posted by quanchi112


while achilles army was losing he was chilling in his tent becuz he was pissed at the king. he had to sneak in on the trojan horse to defeat this obvioulsy weaker army to be killed by the movies biggest pansy.

paris that tricky devil. u killed achilles.






How is it obviously a weaker army

He snuk into Troy to save the priestess not to fight trojans. But in doing so he put himself at enmity with the Greeks and the trojans - balls of steel

Originally posted by severance
NB inhuman monsters does not make skillful fighters. There may be a morale factor here, but i do not think Achilles and his Myrmidons could be accused of suffering from fear. Remember 50 men versus Troy on open ground - takes some balls. He was not even afraid to offend the gods by desecrating apollo's temple.

also as previously discussed Hubris super strong, so is Achilles. if you don't believe me tell me who in the world can toss a spear that far and that fast. No Olympic athlete that I know can come even close to that feat. Achilles is clearly very strong and also very fast as even in the thick of battle with multiple men he attacking him he was not even scratched. he dodged spears being chucked at him as if they were moving in slow motion.

Leonidas = famous Greek warrior
Achilles = the greatest ever Greek warrior



Then how come when ever Achilles trough a spear it killed some one, but when Leonidas through a spear it blew some one off their feet AND killed them.

Leonidas was stronger than Achilles. This is not the real Leonidas, this is an graphically enhanced Leonidas VS a realistic version of Achilles.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Then how come when ever Achilles trough a spear it killed some one, but when Leonidas through a spear it blew some one off their feet AND killed them.

Leonidas was stronger than Achilles. This is not the real Leonidas, this is an enhanced Leonidas VS the weakest version of Achilles.

Originally posted by severance
How is it obviously a weaker army

He snuk into Troy to save the priestess not to fight trojans. But in doing so he put himself at enmity with the Greeks and the trojans - balls of steel

Because the beach of Troy wasn't one million strong, with Rhino's, giant elephants and guys that tossed ****ing dynamite!

Originally posted by King_Cold
Then how come when ever Achilles trough a spear it killed some one, but when Leonidas through a spear it blew some one off their feet AND killed them.

Leonidas was stronger than Achilles. This is not the real Leonidas, this is an enhanced Leonidas VS the weakest version of Achilles.

did leonidas throw a spear nearly 400 yards and kill someone? Achilles (in my estimation achieved this feat). Hector describes it as an impossible throw.

The current Javelin throwing world record is about 96 metres (100 yards). That is done throwing the javelin at a 45 degree angle not straight. Achilles threw his spear straight at the opponent and killed him dead. I would reckon the spear had to have been travelling past lonbow arrow velocity 200mph. Leonidas does not match this feat in any shape.

Originally posted by severance
did leonidas throw a spear nearly 400 yards and kill someone? Achilles (in my estimation achieved this feat). Hector describes it as an impossible throw.

The current Javelin throwing world record is about 96 metres (100 yards). That is done throwing the javelin at a 45 degree angle not straight. Achilles threw his spear straight at the opponent and killed him dead. I would reckon the spear had to have been travelling past lonbow arrow velocity 200mph. Leonidas does not match this feat in any shape.

Achilles through a spear through a guys head and didn't blow him back in any way at the same distance that Leonidas blew a foot soldier off his feet, there for Leonidas troughs spears harder and faster.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Because the beach of Troy wasn't one million strong, with Rhino's, giant elephants and guys that tossed ****ing dynamite!

Does not prove this was a stronger army.

elephants big strong and very stupid - same goes for rhinos. Hence they were so easy to kill.
dynamite loud and dangerous, but not precise or efficient.

Million strong army irrelevant if they can only attack afew hundred at a time down a narrow strip of land.

The effectivenss of an army is not its size but on its tactical awareness and leadership. The historical Xerxes and the comic book guy were both crap tactically.

I am not saying the Trojan army was better - i am stating this is an unprovable point.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Achilles through a spear through a guys head and didn't blow him back in any way at the same distance that Leonidas blew a foot soldier off his feet, there for Leonidas troughs spears harder and faster.

was not the same distance not even close

Originally posted by severance
Does not prove this was a stronger army.

elephants big strong and very stupid - same goes for rhinos. Hence they were so easy to kill.
dynamite loud and dangerous, but not precise or efficient.

Million strong army irrelevant if they can only attack afew hundred at a time down a narrow strip of land.

The effectivenss of an army is not its size but on its tactical awareness and leadership. The historical Xerxes and the comic book guy were both crap tactically.

I am not saying the Trojan army was better - i am stating this is an unprovable point.

Dynamite would blow through the Myrmidons shields like cake, the dynamite killed some Spartans with better shields, the rhino's and elephants would have plowed through Achilles Myrmidons if they had been on the same cliff. Achilles would have been crushed by the super human Hubris.

The Myrmidons took a beach. You obviously don't know what your talking about.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Achilles through a spear through a guys head and didn't blow him back in any way at the same distance that Leonidas blew a foot soldier off his feet, there for Leonidas troughs spears harder and faster.

Achilles threw it at a rider who was a good 400 yards away and moving at speed and hit him right in the head taking him off his mount.

That shows a degree of skill, accuracy and power that Leonidas didn't match throughout 300.

Hector remarks that he had never seen a spear thrown like that and Hector was a great warrior of many campaigns, a seasoned Veteran.

Apart from the Immortals the Persian army was cannon fodder, the Trojan army showed a much greater level of skill and training than the bulk of the persians, they after all forced the Achieans from their walls and forced them to retreat.

Originally posted by severance
was not the same distance not even close

It was close to the same distance, no doubt.

Originally posted by Hercules
Achilles threw it at a rider who was a good 400 yards away and moving at speed and hit him right in the head taking him off his mount.

That shows a degree of skill, accuracy and power that Leonidas didn't match throughout 300.

Hector remarks that he had never seen a spear thrown like that and Hector was a great warrior of many campaigns, a seasoned Veteran.

Apart from the Immortals the Persian army was cannon fodder, the Trojan army showed a much greater level of skill and training than the bulk of the persians, they after all forced the Achieans from their walls and forced them to retreat.

The Athenians were more powerful than the Achieans, and they couldn't beat the bulk of Xerxes army.

Achilles might be more accurate than Leonidas, but thats all, Leonidas throws harder and faster judging on the damage dealt to their targets.

Leonidas shield bashed so hard that it blew soldiers into mid air. Achilles can't match that.

Originally posted by King_Cold
You don't realize that if Achilles was in Leonidas' position he would have died fighting the calvary units in the first battle scene. And he wouldn't stand a chance against the immortals.

Achilles took down only light infantry units a big dumb guy, and one well trained Prince.

Leonidas took down calvary units, light infantry, inhuman monsters, and Hubris who had super strength!

Its hard to compare Achilles' enemies and Leonidas' enemies because the 300 had much much better fight scenes than Troy. But Xerxes army was armed with better weapons simply because it was long after the battle of Troy.

Froma techincal, coregraphy and stunt point of view Troy's fight scenes were superior.

Hector vs Achilles was pure poetry in motion, two fine tuned fighters matching each other point for point, and trying to find a weakness in the other.

Only from the perspective of "OMG that is TEH AWESOME LUCK AT TEH BLOOD!!" is 300 superior...

Originally posted by Hercules
Froma techincal, coregraphy and stunt point of view Troy's fight scenes were superior.

Hector vs Achilles was pure poetry in motion, two fine tuned fighters matching each other point for point, and trying to find a weakness in the other.

Only from the perspective of "OMG that is TEH AWESOME LUCK AT TEH BLOOD!!" is 300 superior...

True, its a matter of opinion.

But Leonidas was graphically enhanced to make him capable of more than Achilles was in a non graphically enhanced movie. That is not a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by King_Cold
The Athenians were more powerful than the Achieans, and they couldn't beat the bulk of Xerxes army.

Achilles might be more accurate than Leonidas, but thats all, Leonidas throws harder and faster.

You know when I say "Achean" it was Homers term for all Greeks right?

You also realise that to throw a spear at a greater distance and still get a kill means more strength is need to propell it also right?

Athens was a naval power, their land armies weren't of the same skill as say the Spartans, they actually abandoned Athens to the Persians and provided 180 of the 366 ships involved in the battle of Salamis where the Greek City states crushed Xerses fleet.

After that Xerses returned home and left Mardonius with depending on your source 70,000 to 300,000 men.

They were defeated at the battle of Plataea by a combined Greek force of again depending on source 38,000 to 110,000 men.

It is said that the Spartans sent 45,000 men, the largest Spartan force ever assembled (and referenced at the end of 300) 5,000 Spartiates, 5,000 Perioikoi and 35,000 Helots.

Truly, before you start to debate history, consider who you are debating with before you start to throw "facts" at people, the Athenians never attempted to stop the Persians by themselves, it would have been folly to do so, they united with the other states to stand up to them.

Just as at Troy King Agamemnon united the Achean kingdoms to fight the Trojans...

Originally posted by Hercules
You know when I say "Achean" it was Homers term for all Greeks right?

You also realise that to throw a spear at a greater distance and still get a kill means more strength is need to propell it also right?

Athens was a naval power, their land armies weren't of the same skill as say the Spartans, they actually abandoned Athens to the Persians and provided 180 of the 366 ships involved in the battle of Salamis where the Greek City states crushed Xerses fleet.

After that Xerses returned home and left Mardonius with depending on your source 70,000 to 300,000 men.

They were defeated at the battle of Plataea by a combined Greek force of again depending on source 38,000 to 110,000 men.

It is said that the Spartans sent 45,000 men, the largest Spartan force ever assembled (and referenced at the end of 300) 5,000 Spartiates, 5,000 Perioikoi and 35,000 Helots.

Truly, before you start to debate history, consider who you are debating with before you start to throw "facts" at people, the Athenians never attempted to stop the Persians by themselves, it would have been folly to do so, they united with the other states to stand up to them.

Just as at Troy King Agamemnon united the Achean kingdoms to fight the Trojans...

Even so, this is an enhanced Dark Horse character VS a not so enhanced greatest warrior ever.

Leonidas was capable of more thanks to the way that they made 300 and the way that they made Troy.

Leonidas blew people back with a shield bash, Achilles didn't, Leonidas blew people back with his spear, Achilles didn't. And Leonidas fought a deadlier variety of troops.

And the Spartans were out numbered 3 to 1 were as Agamemnon wasn't.

Leonidas could throw further but with less accuracy.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Even so, this is an enhanced Dark Horse character VS a not so enhanced greatest warrior ever.

Leonidas was capable of more thanks to the way that they made 300 and the way that they made Troy.

Leonidas blew people back with a shield bash, Achilles didn't, Leonidas blew people back with his spear, Achilles didn't. And Leonidas fought a deadlier variety of troops.

And the Spartans were out numbered 3 to 1 were as Agamemnon wasn't.

I haven't seen anything in either film to show that Leonidas was capable of more.

You seem to be basing your entire debate on Leonidas being physicaly stronger. Strength alone does not win a fight, Ajax was stronger than Hector, Hector still beat him (in the movie at least)

However, your only evidence is a shield bash it seems and a spear throw, considering Achilles fighting style being a lot different than Leonidas, using his speed and skill to dodge and antcipate his enemy then striking with one blow for the kill, you can't really gauge his physical strength.

Yes the Spartans were outnumbered (greater than 3 to 1 if you consider one million against 300) the Trojans were also outnumbered and still used superior tactics to beat the Acheans from their walls, so it can be argued that Achilles faced opponents of greater skill (not counting the Immortals)

Show me your proof that Leonidas can throw a spear longer and harder than Achilles, cause I have seen both movies and don't see how or where you came to that conclusion.

Achilles jump stab through the neck all the way to leonidas heart move FTW.

Originally posted by Hercules
I haven't seen anything in either film to show that Leonidas was capable of more.

You seem to be basing your entire debate on Leonidas being physicaly stronger. Strength alone does not win a fight, Ajax was stronger than Hector, Hector still beat him (in the movie at least)

However, your only evidence is a shield bash it seems and a spear throw, considering Achilles fighting style being a lot different than Leonidas, using his speed and skill to dodge and antcipate his enemy then striking with one blow for the kill, you can't really gauge his physical strength.

Yes the Spartans were outnumbered (greater than 3 to 1 if you consider one million against 300) the Trojans were also outnumbered and still used superior tactics to beat the Acheans from their walls, so it can be argued that Achilles faced opponents of greater skill (not counting the Immortals)

Show me your proof that Leonidas can throw a spear longer and harder than Achilles, cause I have seen both movies and don't see how or where you came to that conclusion.

In 300 at the battle of Plateau the Spartans were out numbered 3 to 1 and still won, something that the Trojans couldn't do in Troy.

Leonidas through faster and harder because he blew his targets off their feet and Achilles didn't. Leonidas blew two people off their feet with one spear. Yes Achilles had better fighting skill than Leonidas, but that alone wouldn't make deference in a fight, only strength, speed and experience would. And Leonidas out powers Achilles in all of thoughs.

Originally posted by Caps Conscience
Achilles jump stab through the neck all the way to leonidas heart move FTW.

Leonidas would block that with his shield like Hector did.

Originally posted by Caps Conscience
Achilles jump stab through the neck all the way to leonidas heart move FTW. that crap aint working on leonidas. maybe the jokers in the movie troy but real mean and real armies were in 300.

Originally posted by King_Cold
In 300 at the battle of Plateau the Spartans were out numbered 3 to 1 and still won, something that the Trojans couldn't do in Troy.

Leonidas through faster and harder because he blew his targets off their feet and Achilles didn't. Leonidas blew two people off their feet with one spear. Yes Achilles had better fighting skill than Leonidas, but that alone wouldn't make deference in a fight, only strength, speed and experience would. And Leonidas out powers Achilles in all of thoughs.

I just gave you a breakdown of the forces at Plateau in an earlier post, the COMBINED Greek Forces were outnumbered 3 to 1 not just the Spartans.

The Trojans, beat the Acheans back from there walls and attacked the Greek camp, if it wasn't for Patroclus leading the Mrymidons and inspiring the Acheans to fight and then later when he was killed a parley being called, they would have been driven into the Sea by the Trojans.

If you look at the total Achean forces present at Troy according to Homer's catalogue of ships there were 29 contingents under 46 captains totaling 1,196 ships.

120 men per ship adds up to 142,320 men total in the Achean force. Trojan numbers are lower according to the Trojan battle order in the Illiad there were 16 contingents under 26 leaders.

So the Trojans were outnumbered and fought outside their walls and still beat back and almost defeated the Acheans, only trickery and the death of their greatest warrior defeated them.

So it can still be argued that Achilles fought the superior opponents...

So you are basing some spear throws at relatively short range as a mark of superior strength because it knocked someone back and speared two men at the same time?

Skill goes a long way in a fight and now all of sudden Leonidas is faster and more experienced?

No proof that Leonidas is faster and as for exprience Achilles was Greeces greatest warrior and if you're going by the movie fought in all Agammenon's campaigns to conquer all Greece.

I would hardly give Leonidas the experience advantage and as for speed, Achilles was fast enough to block attacks from behind him without looking...

Your debate is based entirely on opinion, with no hard or fast evidence to back it up and I would never say you weren't entitled to do so, its only that you claim it to be fact that I'm debating.

Judging the two on showings in their respective films, I gave my breakdown of the fight pages back and I stand by it, Leonidas is good, Achilles is just better and it would be an epic fight which I see Achilles winning.

Originally posted by quanchi112
that crap aint working on leonidas. maybe the jokers in the movie troy but real mean and real armies were in 300.

Real men and real armies, they had demons and monsters fighting for the Persians?

If anything the battles in Troy were a lot more realistic than the battle scenes in 300, one of King Cold's arguments is that Leonidas and co were CGI enhanced.

You back his arguments than make that statement, amazing...

Originally posted by Hercules
I just gave you a breakdown of the forces at Plateau in an earlier post, the COMBINED Greek Forces were outnumbered 3 to 1 not just the Spartans.

The Trojans, beat the Acheans back from there walls and attacked the Greek camp, if it wasn't for Patroclus leading the Mrymidons and inspiring the Acheans to fight and then later when he was killed a parley being called, they would have been driven into the Sea by the Trojans.

If you look at the total Achean forces present at Troy according to Homer's catalogue of ships there were 29 contingents under 46 captains totaling 1,196 ships.

120 men per ship adds up to 142,320 men total in the Achean force. Trojan numbers are lower according to the Trojan battle order in the Illiad there were 16 contingents under 26 leaders.

So the Trojans were outnumbered and fought outside their walls and still beat back and almost defeated the Acheans, only trickery and the death of their greatest warrior defeated them.

So it can still be argued that Achilles fought the superior opponents...

So you are basing some spear throws at relatively short range as a mark of superior strength because it knocked someone back and speared two men at the same time?

Skill goes a long way in a fight and now all of sudden Leonidas is faster and more experienced?

No proof that Leonidas is faster and as for exprience Achilles was Greeces greatest warrior and if you're going by the movie fought in all Agammenon's campaigns to conquer all Greece.

I would hardly give Leonidas the experience advantage and as for speed, Achilles was fast enough to block attacks from behind him without looking...

Your debate is based entirely on opinion, with no hard or fast evidence to back it up and I would never say you weren't entitled to do so, its only that you claim it to be fact that I'm debating.

Judging the two on showings in their respective films, I gave my breakdown of the fight pages back and I stand by it, Leonidas is good, Achilles is just better and it would be an epic fight which I see Achilles winning.

Leonidas was older than Achilles, he lived longer, and killed a giant wolf at a young age with nothing but a sharpened stick, he also punched another Spartan to death at the age of about 11 or 12.

I can't see Achilles accomplishing those feats.

Achilles was obviously much less experienced than Leonidas because of the fact that he was a hot head.

It would be a great battle, but I see Leonidas winning.

Originally posted by Hercules
Real men and real armies, they had demons and monsters fighting for the Persians?

If anything the battles in Troy were a lot more realistic than the battle scenes in 300, one of King Cold's arguments is that Leonidas and co were CGI enhanced.

You back his arguments than make that statement, amazing...

I believe he was quoting Gorgo when she said that only Spartan women give birth to real men.

Originally posted by Hercules


If anything the battles in Troy were a lot more realistic than the battle scenes in 300, one of King Cold's arguments is that Leonidas and co were CGI enhanced.



The only realistic aspect from 300 was the Spartans garb and weaponry. Even considering the abondonment of facts and compromise of facts in exchange for an entertaining movie. I think it is hard to swallow that the over exaggerated Leonidas would topple achilles due to your statement that Troy's battles were much more realistic.

All of this Argument about how Leonidas can hurl a spear further, to me is nonsense. Achillies hurled a spear 100 yards with impossible accuracy. The Spear hit exactly where Achillis meant for it to make contact on the oafs body. Leonidas threw his spear hoping to just make contact.
Saying Achilles is not as fast or strong as an undeniable statement is also absurd. Leonidas stood his ground in battle. Achilles was always moving and running during battle through out the movie of Troy. Leaping the height of a man and plunging a sword directly through the shoulder to puncture the heart just to land and continue running on to the next man takes incredible agility, speed, strength and accuracy. The reason we never saw Achilles standing his ground pounding through onslaughts of soldiers is because he was a far more talented warrior than that. His Skills and fighting ability allowed him to attack his attackers rather than defend against them.
Could Achilles, knock back men with his shield...i dont know why anyone would think he couldnt. He didnt need to, he was to busy cutting the opposition down to need to knock aggressors back in order to gain a foot hold.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
The only realistic aspect from 300 was the Spartans garb and weaponry. Even considering the abondonment of facts and compromise of facts in exchange for an entertaining movie. I think it is hard to swallow that the over exaggerated Leonidas would topple achilles due to your statement that Troy's battles were much more realistic.

All of this Argument about how Leonidas can hurl a spear further, to me is nonsense. Achillies hurled a spear 100 yards with impossible accuracy. The Spear hit exactly where Achillis meant for it to make contact on the oafs body. Leonidas threw his spear hoping to just make contact.
Saying Achilles is not as fast or strong as an undeniable statement is also absurd. Leonidas stood his ground in battle. Achilles was always moving and running during battle through out the movie of Troy. Leaping the height of a man and plunging a sword directly through the shoulder to puncture the heart just to land and continue running on to the next man takes incredible agility, speed, strength and accuracy. The reason we never saw Achilles standing his ground pounding through onslaughts of soldiers is because he was a far more talented warrior than that. His Skills and fighting ability allowed him to attack his attackers rather than defend against them.
Could Achilles, knock back men with his shield...i dont know why anyone would think he couldnt. He didnt need to, he was to busy cutting the opposition down to need to knock aggressors back in order to gain a foot hold.

Like I said before, Achilles is a hot head and is less experienced than Leonidas, Leonidas is also physically stronger, Achilles could never punch some one to death. Leonidas might be faster because he is in better shape, dew to how defined his muscles were.

Achilles just had a better fighting style, and wasn't quite as smart, he also let anger get to him. Leonidas wins.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Like I said before, Achilles is a hot head and is less experienced than Leonidas, Leonidas is also physically stronger, Achilles could never punch some one to death. Leonidas might be faster because he is in better shape, dew to how defined his muscles were.

Achilles just had a better fighting style, and wasn't quite as smart, he also let anger get to him. Leonidas wins.

Are you kidding me. Since when did muscle definition determine how fast someone is? Just because i spend six weeks in the jim jones gym too doesnt mean im going to get any faster. My muscle tone will increase though.

Is punching a man to death supposed to be an incredible feat?

I didnt see leonidas running while fighting, i saw him standing essentially in one place. Achilles fighting style in Troy showcases his stamina and how agile he is. INstead of basic spear and sword strikes, Achilles used his entire body as a weapon.

What happened when Achilles was overcome by anger in Troy? His fighting became more intense and accurate. Though he may had been consumed by anger, he was still aware enough to feel out Hecter's abilities in battle to defeat him quite easily.

For having such a lowe level of experience It's quite surprising how he and his myrmidons were chosen to spear head the attack on Troy. Achilles was such an experienced and intense warrior, Agamemnon's forces were at a standstill for years, untill Achilles decided to fight again. lack of experience....no sir.

Leonidas' experience got him dead. INstead of retreating with the rest of the Greek forces, he decided to stay and get himself dead.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Are you kidding me. Since when did muscle definition determine how fast someone is? Just because i spend six weeks in the jim jones gym too doesnt mean im going to get any faster. My muscle tone will increase though.

Is punching a man to death supposed to be an incredible feat?

I didnt see leonidas running while fighting, i saw him standing essentially in one place. Achilles fighting style in Troy showcases his stamina and how agile he is. INstead of basic spear and sword strikes, Achilles used his entire body as a weapon.

What happened when Achilles was overcome by anger in Troy? His fighting became more intense and accurate. Though he may had been consumed by anger, he was still aware enough to feel out Hecter's abilities in battle to defeat him quite easily.

For having such a lowe level of experience It's quite surprising how he and his myrmidons were chosen to spear head the attack on Troy. Achilles was such an experienced and intense warrior, Agamemnon's forces were at a standstill for years, untill Achilles decided to fight again. lack of experience....no sir.

Now name some of feats that Leonidas did instead of Achilles.


He killed a wolf with a sharpened stick, Achilles could do that? I don't think so. He punched a kid to death at the age of 11, Achilles couldn't do that at age 11, Leonidas was in better shape, there fore he was faster.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Now name some of feats that Leonidas did instead of Achilles.


He killed a wolf with a sharpened stick, Achilles could do that? I don't think so. He punched a kid to death at the age of 11, Achilles couldn't do that at age 11, Leonidas was in better shape, there fore he was faster.

What evidence are you using to determine he was in better shape? Muscle definition...if so, ive alrady told you that muscle definition means NOTHING. Muscle tone doesnt equal strength or conditioning. If anything i would say that they were both in the prime of their fitness.

Considering that the skeletal structure of an 11 year is still developed and much weaker than an adults. I would say that beating a child to death is even more of a ridiculous feat to mention when questioning which adult version of the two is supoerior. It doesnt take much to beat a man to death with your fists. WHy do you think that Achilles couldnt beat a child to death when he was 11? He was training started at Childhood as well. You or i could beat someone to death.

I'll give him the wolf, but i think that scene was supposed to showcase his lack of fear and abundance of courage other than ability. He did seem to get a bit lucky

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
What evidence are you using to determine he was in better shape? Muscle definition...if so, ive alrady told you that muscle definition means NOTHING. Muscle tone doesnt equal strength or conditioning. If anything i would say that they were both in the prime of their fitness.

Considering that the skeletal structure of an 11 year is still developed and much weaker than an adults. I would say that beating a child to death is even more of a ridiculous feat to mention when questioning which adult version of the two is supoerior. It doesnt take much to beat a man to death with your fists. WHy do you think that Achilles couldnt beat a child to death when he was 11? He was training started at Childhood as well. You or i could beat someone to death.

I'll give him the wolf, but i think that scene was supposed to showcase his lack of fear and abundance of courage other than ability. He did seem to get a bit lucky

I probably could beat a person who wasn't defending himself to death, but that doesn't mean that I have the guts to do it, Leonidas did it just to get the other kids food.

The fight with the giant wolf was a showcase of all of his strengths, wits, courage, tactics, brawns and will power. Achilles would have lost against the wolf. Leonidas could use Achilles rage to aid him in a fight. Leonidas could out muscle him or he could out smart him, if Achilles is mad enough.

If Leonidas can pit his wits and will against natures fury, than he can certainly pit his wits and will against Achilles' fury.

Leonidas was ridiculously strong as well as smart.

Leonidas was moving to fit his fighting style just as Achilles was.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Leonidas was older than Achilles, he lived longer, and killed a giant wolf at a young age with nothing but a sharpened stick, he also punched another Spartan to death at the age of about 11 or 12.

I can't see Achilles accomplishing those feats.

Achilles was obviously much less experienced than Leonidas because of the fact that he was a hot head.

It would be a great battle, but I see Leonidas winning.

Well if you are talking actual ages, Leonidas was around 60 at Thermoplaye (born circa 540BC died 480BC) which further defeats your argument...

You can't see Achilles killing a wolf with a stick or beating another child?

You do know who Achilles is right?

He was raised by Chiron, who fed him on the innards of lions and wild swine, and the marrows of bears.

He killed Cycnus, king of Colonae son of Posiedon who was invulnerable to attack by sword and spear by crushing and suffocating him.

He was the only mortal to experience consumate rage, which is why he was so dangerous in battle.

He delt Telephus son of Heracles (Hercules) a wound that would not heal.

Other than Thermoplyae not much is known about Leonidas prior to that so really your experience theory is moot, seeing as even in the film 300 we never see any flash backs of him fighting in wars.

Achilles relies on his speed to dodge attacks so again, you are basing your theory of Leonidas being faster on what exactley?

Throughout the entire film I saw Leonidas take damage in melee, I only saw Achilles take one hit and all that did was scratch his armour.

Spartans fought in close order, the Phalanx, each man supporting the other, Achilles fights alone and is mobile, completly different fighting styles, again no gauge of physical strength.

I respect your opinion but your evidence is getting weaker by the post for Leonidas being Achilles physical superior.

Originally posted by King_Cold
I probably could beat a person who wasn't defending himself to death, but that doesn't mean that I have the guts to do it, Leonidas did it just to get the other kids food.

The fight with the giant wolf was a showcase of all of his strengths, wits, courage, tactics, brawns and will power. Achilles would have lost against the wolf. Leonidas could use Achilles rage to aid him in a fight. Leonidas could out muscle him or he could out smart him, if Achilles is mad enough.

If Leonidas can pit his wits and will against natures fury, than he can certainly pit his wits and will against Achilles' fury.

Leonidas was ridiculously strong as well as smart.

Leonidas was moving to fit his fighting style just as Achilles was.

Achille's fury didn't impede his battle savy, this is why he was the greatest warrior the Achean's had.

How do you know Achilles would have lost against the wolf, where is your evidence or proof to support your claims?

Leonidas could out muscle him? again where is your proof, also why would Achilles engage him in a test of strength, when he is consistantly shown going for the instant kill and outmanuerving his opponents?

Leonidas fighting style was much more of a brawler than Achilles the fact that his body showed scars and Achille's did not, says who had the superior fighting style imo.

You repeat the same arguments, the wolf and the child and state Achilles could not do the same, with nothing as evidence for your theory.

Bottom line Leonidas claimed to be a descendent of a mythologic character, Achilles IS a mythologic character...

Originally posted by King_Cold
Dynamite would blow through the Myrmidons shields like cake, the dynamite killed some Spartans with better shields, the rhino's and elephants would have plowed through Achilles Myrmidons if they had been on the same cliff. Achilles would have been crushed by the super human Hubris.

The Myrmidons took a beach. You obviously don't know what your talking about.


Actually I do I have studied military history. Big scary looking weapons does not make a powerful army. If you want I could quote the battle of Agincourt, world War One and the Vietnam war. My point is you cannot directly compare whether Persia had a more powerful army than Troy. You are obviously easily impressed by the gunpowder (not dynamite) and the big elephants, but you have no idea if these would be as effective as the Trojan army. This as I said yesterday is an unprovable point.

It is also irrelevant becasue we are talking about a one on one between leonidas and Achilles.

blow

i would win

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Don't spam, dude.


Historically/Mythologically? It'd be Achilles. Son of a goddess and all that. The Spartans are great warriors, but Achilles also was immortal, except for that heal of his, which Leonidas would not know about.

Movie wise? I'm not sure, but I don't like that aspect as the movie Troy ruined Achilles character. Great movie, don't get me wrong, but they took out most of the story by taking out the gods and goddesses.

wtf dgw2007?

i tyed to copy all the smilie but failed

Originally posted by boriquaking55
Achilles would embarrass Leonidas. Even movie version was above any other human in hand to hand combat.

Achilles 9/10.

I'd go as far as say Hector could take Loenidas as well.

Truth spoken.

Originally posted by Dgw2007
i tyed to copy all the smilie but failed

oh ok
no worries

lol laughing

Originally posted by King_Cold
You don't realize that if Achilles was in Leonidas' position he would have died fighting the calvary units in the first battle scene. And he wouldn't stand a chance against the immortals.

Achilles took down only light infantry units a big dumb guy, and one well trained Prince.

Leonidas took down calvary units, light infantry, inhuman monsters, and Hubris who had super strength!

Its hard to compare Achilles' enemies and Leonidas' enemies because the 300 had much much better fight scenes than Troy. But Xerxes army was armed with better weapons simply because it was long after the battle of Troy.

You make the inhumans sound badass they were serious pussies that got gutte.

Originally posted by Broken Darkness
Don't spam, dude.


Historically/Mythologically? It'd be Achilles. Son of a goddess and all that. The Spartans are great warriors, but Achilles also was immortal, except for that heal of his, which Leonidas would not know about.

Movie wise? I'm not sure, but I don't like that aspect as the movie Troy ruined Achilles character. Great movie, don't get me wrong, but they took out most of the story by taking out the gods and goddesses.

This was the weakest version of Achilles we have seen but he was still able to beat the second greatest warrior(Hector) with ease. If they did not tone him down, he could of took Troy on his own.

Originally posted by Hercules
Well if you are talking actual ages, Leonidas was around 60 at Thermoplaye (born circa 540BC died 480BC) which further defeats your argument...

You can't see Achilles killing a wolf with a stick or beating another child?

You do know who Achilles is right?

He was raised by Chiron, who fed him on the innards of lions and wild swine, and the marrows of bears.

He killed Cycnus, king of Colonae son of Posiedon who was invulnerable to attack by sword and spear by crushing and suffocating him.

He was the only mortal to experience consumate rage, which is why he was so dangerous in battle.

He delt Telephus son of Heracles (Hercules) a wound that would not heal.

Other than Thermoplyae not much is known about Leonidas prior to that so really your experience theory is moot, seeing as even in the film 300 we never see any flash backs of him fighting in wars.

Achilles relies on his speed to dodge attacks so again, you are basing your theory of Leonidas being faster on what exactley?

Throughout the entire film I saw Leonidas take damage in melee, I only saw Achilles take one hit and all that did was scratch his armour.

Spartans fought in close order, the Phalanx, each man supporting the other, Achilles fights alone and is mobile, completly different fighting styles, again no gauge of physical strength.

I respect your opinion but your evidence is getting weaker by the post for Leonidas being Achilles physical superior.

also, if i remember correctly, menaleos (not sure about the spelling), the guy who fought paris, is the king of sparta. Helen was his wife. so, since menaleos was the king of sparta at that time, it would probably mean that he was also the best fighter from sparta and he was owned by hector.....quite easilly too.

so yeah, if menaleos is an indication of how spartan's fought 1 on 1 then yeah...achilles wins ths

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
also, if i remember correctly, menaleos (not sure about the spelling), the guy who fought paris, is the king of sparta. Helen was his wife. so, since menaleos was the king of sparta at that time, it would probably mean that he was also the best fighter from sparta and he was owned by hector.....quite easilly too.

so yeah, if menaleos is an indication of how spartan's fought 1 on 1 then yeah...achilles wins ths


abilities are variable. The Trojan War happened some seven hundred years prior to Leonidas. Perhaps, the Spartans became better fighters since then. In any event...Troy was largely based on myth...while 300 was largely based on historical fact. So, you can't really compare Menelaous with Leonidas.

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
abilities are variable. The Trojan War happened some seven hundred years prior to Leonidas. Perhaps, the Spartans became better fighters since then. In any event...Troy was largely based on myth...while 300 was largely based on historical fact. So, you can't really compare Menelaous with Leonidas.

i cant? but why?? well, actualy, u do have a point. just to point out, troy isnt based laregly on myth coz the illiad is a myth. and 300 is based on historical facts though very decorated to spicen it up.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
i cant? but why?? well, actualy, u do have a point. just to point out, troy isnt based laregly on myth coz the illiad is a myth. and 300 is based on historical facts though very decorated to spicen it up.

Well, I meant that Troy was based largely on myth...because there very well could've been a historical Trojan War...it just didn't happen the way Homer illustrated it in the Iliad...lol.

Originally posted by King_Cold
Leonidas was older than Achilles, he lived longer, and killed a giant wolf at a young age with nothing but a sharpened stick, he also punched another Spartan to death at the age of about 11 or 12.

I can't see Achilles accomplishing those feats.

Achilles was obviously much less experienced than Leonidas because of the fact that he was a hot head.

It would be a great battle, but I see Leonidas winning.

Im gonna base my points on the movie versions of the characters, since that's what we're supposed to be considering right?

So, based on the movies:

1. there was no footage seen in troy showing achilles' childhood, therefore you have no proof to back up your opinion of achilles not being able to punch out another 11 yr old kid. just because achilles didn't get the benefit of flashbacks like leonidas, doesn't mean that he couldn't have punched someone to death.

Hell, i can punch someone to death with the right amount of anger and a good mount position. So to say that achilles can't punch someone to death is PURELY YOUR OPINION. to claim it as a fact would make me question your age.

2. about the wolf, impressive feat for leonidas. but then again, how can you claim that achilles never had a similar feat? you don't know his childhood, it wasn't shown in the movie. so therefore, you cannot conclude on something that you don't know. to say that achilles cannot accomplish the same feat is again PURELY YOUR OPINION. there is no proof to suggest otherwise.

3. Just because someone is older, doesn't give him an edge in experience. Leonidas was a king, requiring that he handle matters of the state, politics, farming for his city, etc.
The movie version of achilles was seen as someone actively fighting in a campaign. My point? leonidas probably didn't spend as much time fighting coz he had other matters to consider. achilles looked as if he was fighting every day of his life, helping agamemnon in his campaign. but this is my opinion. no proof can be said about who is more experienced. so stop claiming leonidas is more experienced, your wishes alone does not make it a fact.

4. achilles was not a hothead, he was taciturn and arrogant, always willing to fight. the only time he got pissed off was when brisias was taken from him and when his cousin was killed. otherwise, he was a cold calculating killer. but even when his emotions got the better of him, he was still nigh invulnerable in battle.

5. if there was something that we could compare from the movies, it would be the spearthrows. achilles threw his spear at what looked like impossible spead and strength over a distance to hit his target accurately. when leonidas threw his spear over a distance, it seemed wobbly and only glanced xerxes. im not sure what was the longer shot, but to base it on how it looked, achilles was a lot more impressive in this feat.

when leonidas threw his spear strong enough to blow back his enemies, it was at close range.

6. to base one's skills on physical appearance is stupid. i know a lot of great fighters who don't have six packs. but just for the record, i actually liked brad pitt's physique more than gerard butler's. leonidas had that chiseled but cumbersome body-builder's look (altho i would'nt mind havin a body like that). brad had a lean, lithe, zero-fat, panther looking body that seemed more suitable to a warrior. just my opinion though.

No "mainstream" comic book character.

Sorry guys.

Closing.