Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This thread is for us, as a community, to develop a tier system for the expanded battle options here in the versus forum (until a sub-forum can be created).

Similar to the comic book character tier system. This will give us a rough estimation of which characters are "peers" to their "mainstream" comic book counterparts, and will help to determine what constitutes a viable mixed genre match up for this forum.

This will be an open forum, however, please keep this constructive. We all have opinions and the right to express them, but no unwarranted character bashing, or insulting of one another, will be tolerated.

The rules are the same general rules as the comic tier system

Rules:
1. Any changes made, please try to bold them to point them out to others.
2. Alphabetize the list as needed.
3. Discussion should take place before a change, and at least 2-3 others (who are relatively "unbiased" and not huge fans of a particular character) should agree with you before an official change takes place.
4. I can't update the Master List every day. Be patient, and don't whine to me about changes that need edited in.
5. If you can't get support for a proposed change, let it drop once you've made your case.
6. Have fun and enjoy. This list obviously isn't perfect, but it will end up being one of the better indicators of power anywhere by the time it's refined and added to.

Notes:
1. This list is based off of total "power" in all its forms. Individual matchups might mean that someone in a lower tier could beat someone in a higher tier, but we're basing the list on general power levels, not individual matchups.

Current Mainstream Comic Character Tiers


Sub-Skyfather (Transcendent)

Amazo, Appolyon, The Asgardian Destroyer,Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, The General (Shaggy Man), Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solomon Grundy (Peak), Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Tanaraq, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus

Herald:

High:
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Cyborg Superman, The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Qztr, The Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Sinestro, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman (including B/R and AS), Thor, The Void

Middle:
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Cpt. Comet,Captain Marvel (DC), Damien Hellstrom, Doomsday, Evinlea, The Fallen One, Firelord, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John, Katma, Kilowog), Hyperion, Ikaris, Imperiex Probes, Kid Omega, Lobo, Loki, Magus (Post-IG), Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Quasar, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Skreet, Supergirl, Supreme, Swamp Thing, Terrax the Tamer, Void, Waverider, Wildfire, Wonder Woman

Low:
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Bizarro Superman, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Count Nefaria, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Dr. Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Engineer, Etrigan, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Gammid, Gamora (w/Godslayer), Ganondorf, Gilgamesh, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hulk, Iceman, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Juggernaut (Classic), Kalibak, Lightray, Living Monolith, Lunatik, Magneto, Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Prime, Professor X, Raven, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Sersi, Shadow King, Shaman, Starhawk, Super Skrull, Superboy, Tempest, Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Winter, Zauriel,

Metahuman (Mid-tier "Iron Man" level)

High:
Abomination, Adam Strange, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, Blob, Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian I, Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron-Man, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Kang, Karate Kid, Living Laser, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nightshade, Nimrod, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Power Girl, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Wonder Man, Zzaxx

Middle:
Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes), Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Box, Carnage, Cloak, Corrin, Crystal, Cyborg, Cyclops, Death's Head, Death Wreck, Dust, Electro, Elijah Snow, Enchantress, Farenheit, Flint, Fuji, Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze), Ghost Rider(Dan Ketch), Grace Choi, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hellion, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, Link, Matua, M.O.D.O.K., Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nico Minoru, Ogun, Quicksilver (classic), Ragman, Rogue, rom, Shadowcat, Shift, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Tiger Shark, Toxin, Vance Astro, Vengeance, Wonder Girl,

Low:
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett), Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Cyber, Dagger, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Elixer, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, K', Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Machine Man, Man-Bat, Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Molly Hayes, Multiple Man, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Nuke, Omega Red, Orka Humbug, Prometheus, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Ryu Hayabusa, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Speedball, Speedfreek, Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2099, Spider-Woman, Swift, Thunder Cats, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Venom, Vermin, Victor Mancha, Vulture, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Warpath, Wizard, Wolverine, Wulfgar

Street Level

High:
Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Cat, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Captain America, The Cat, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Hush, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Taskmaster, Union Jack, X-23

Middle:
Red Hood , Arsenal/Red Arrow, Baron Zemo, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Crossbones, Deadshot, Echo, Grifter, Joker, Mach IV, Misty Knight, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Nomad, Peacemaker, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Rose Tattoo, Turok, Wildcat

Low:
Alfred, Batroc, Black Widow, Catwoman, Christine Trelane, Colleen Wing, Night Thrasher, Obregon Kaine, Penguin, The Question, Riddler, Robin, Talia, White Tiger



Alternate Genre Character Tiers:

(Current Established Standings)

(Changes in Bold)

Abstract Level:
Ascended Ancients (as a race) , Dialga , Haruhi Suzumiya, Palkia , Q ,

Skyfather Level:
Kevin Uxbridge , Pyron,

Sub-Skyfather (Transcendent) Level:
Z, Unicron

Herald Level:

Elite:

High:
KOS-MOS (Full Power), Nono Diebuster, Son Goku (SSJ4),

Middle:
Aku, Broly , Crystalline Entity , Dante (DMC - Sparda Form), Popeye (w/Spinach)

Low
Darth Nihilus, Ganondorf, Godzilla, King Ghidorah, Mew-Two, Santa Claus, Sephiroth, Ultraman, Voltron


Metahuman (Mid-tier "Iron Man" Level):

Elite:
Armus , Fuma , Kamui, Kratos, Nappa, Neo , Yusuke Urameshi

High:
Blossom, Bubbles, Buttercup, Crocodile, Galvatron, Guyver, Happosai, Iron Giant, Kenshiro, Mega Man, Regigigas, Samus Aran, Sora (Kingdom Hearts), Sun Wukong (The Monkey King)

Middle:
Alex Mercer, Dante (DMC), Harry Potter, Itachi Uchiha, Jiraiya, Kain, Kakashi, Link, Mace Windu, Masamune Date, Michael Corvin (Underworld), Orochimaru, Popeye (w/o Spinach), Sarah Kerrigan (Zergified), Seras, Tsunade

Low:
Bowser , Data , Father , Harry Dresden, K', Phantom Limb, Ranma Saotome, Rurouni Kenshin, Ryouga Hibiki, Ryu Hayabasa, Samurai Jack, Vash the Stampede,

Street Level:

Elite:
Afro Samurai, Brock Samson, Riddick

High:
Angel , Buffy the Vampire Slayer, John Rambo, Spike Spiegel,

Middle:
Chewbacca, Huo Yuanjia (Fearless)], Teal'c (Stargate SG1), Worf

Low:
Sly Cooper

The problem with anime and manga characters (which I assume is what this will be mainly used for) is that once you get past DBZ, there is a huge jump, and nearly all of the stronger anime characters are outright gods (Celestial/Eternity level or higher) and would be off the chart.

Which is why we'll develop this system to distinguish which match-ups aren't allowed. This is to have a rough map of where a character stands compared to a mainstream peer (like Solid Snake and Captain America). Once we've done this ground work it will help alleviate some of the future mismatches that are bound to ensue.

.

If this includes video game characters I vote Master Chief for low level Metahuman.

.

Illa, you are a genius. This should probably be in the comic book section though.


Alucard for high/mid herald

Lina Inverse for mid herald

Link for mid meta

Dante for high meta

2nd Master Chief for low meta

Samus for mid tier meta

Anubis & Jehuty for mid herald evillaugh you have no idea how long I've been trying to get those two into the other tier list......

Spike Spiegel for high street

Ranma Saotome for low meta

Ryouga Hibiki for low meta

Happosai for mid/high meta

Rugal Bernstein for high meta

Gouki (Akuma for everyone else) for low herald

Ryu Hayabusa for low meta

Kelthuzad for mid herald

Don't let Arthas on the list. Seriously. He's at least skyfather. Unless it's DK Arthas, in which case, mid/high meta.

Where do we put alternate forms? Or they count under the main character? If the latter, change Rugal to low herald.

Kain from Legacy Of Kain-Herald level mid/high
Kratos-Herald level low

No. Not Kain. I want him off the list. He's completely unkillable. Against Kain for the list or use in the forum.

Originally posted by Deathstroke
If this includes video game characters I vote Master Chief for low level Metahuman.

Yes, it does include video game characters.

I was wondering where we'd put Sephiroth, actually.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Yes, it does include video game characters.

I was wondering where we'd put Sephiroth, actually.

I hate his hype so much......... So, mid meta. And I refuse to hear any arguements for anything higher.

Aizen Sousuke for Low herald


Dark Schnieder for High herald+++ (he's about equal to above top level Dr. Strange, so where would that place him on the list?)

No one in Bleach is anywhere near Herald level. I question Alucard's Herald status as will.

Aizen and Alucard both at mid meta.

Base Darsh is mid herald, Majin Darsh is transcendent (sub - skyfather), Dragon Knight Darsh is Skyfather

How come the real damn list isn't here?

PTZrbTwfQOY I like the animation style, and I don't say this often, but she is a very cute anime character. naughty

Cutie Honey for mid/high meta. droolio

Alita from Battle Angel Alita for low meta

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I hate his hype so much......... So, mid meta. And I refuse to hear any arguements for anything higher.

You'd say the same about Sentry.

You're really one of the most biased posters I have ever come across on this forum....

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
No. Not Kain. I want him off the list. He's completely unkillable. Against Kain for the list or use in the forum.
Kain is a bitchy one though he is one of my fav game chars his fans are so annoying for instance one of them said that he could beat LT.

Originally posted by Soljer
You'd say the same about Sentry.

You're really one of the most biased posters I have ever come across on this forum....

Well that's not true. I'd put Sentry at mid or low herald.

I wholeheartedly agree with the latter part.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'd put Sentry at mid or low herald.
And you would be in error to do so.

Originally posted by llagrok
How come the real damn list isn't here?

We're working on that.

A placement requires 3 or more votes. Has anyone agreed on any of the proposed placements yet?

Master Chief needs one more at low meta level.

I agree with Hayabusa being a low level meta. A case can be made for him to reach mid-meta though.

UfEtQ2IUvz0

Master Chief should be a middle level meta. IMO he is superior to Hayabusa at physical stats, but inferior to Samus Aran's firepower etc. Which places him right in the middle of the tier. Aran being among the highest middle-meta humans and Chief being among the lower middle meta-human. Case in point Master Chief being able to give Samus Aran a fight, and having the odds in his favor against Busa.

KOS-MOS(Xenosaga) is definitely herald level, but some of her feats are so amazing she can be easily placed as a transcended herald or low skyfather. She does not have matter manipulation, etc. However her energy output is off the charts. Her highest feat has her engaging the god of her universe in a battle that destroyed everything.

Mega Man is either high-meta or low herald.

Gouki belongs with the meta-humans. Actual level is beyond me though.

pH = "Place holder"

?

Just wanted to incorporate the comic tier list as a reference for this forum as well as a list to establish "benchmarks" for the characters of other genres as we establish their placement.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/hiphop.gif

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I agree with Hayabusa being a low level meta. A case can be made for him to reach mid-meta though.

UfEtQ2IUvz0

Master Chief should be a middle level meta. IMO he is superior to Hayabusa at physical stats, but inferior to Samus Aran's firepower etc. Which places him right in the middle of the tier. Aran being among the highest middle-meta humans and Chief being among the lower middle meta-human. Case in point Master Chief being able to give Samus Aran a fight, and having the odds in his favor against Busa.

KOS-MOS(Xenosaga) is definitely herald level, but some of her feats are so amazing she can be easily placed as a transcended herald or low skyfather. She does not have matter manipulation, etc. However her energy output is off the charts. Her highest feat has her engaging the god of her universe in a battle that destroyed everything.

Mega Man is either high-meta or low herald.

Gouki belongs with the meta-humans. Actual level is beyond me though.

Let Gears make the case for mid meta. He's Hayabusa's fanboy. 2 for low meta.

2 for mid tier meta for Master Chief.

Kosmos: ?????? Haven't played Xenosaga.

Gouki: Still say Herald level. He's being underrated if you put him lower.

Samus for high meta.

Trickster, would you like to be in charge of tallying the votes for the characters?

I agree with Samus for High Meta.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/bwuceree.gif

Archetype KOSMOS goes berserk and kills armed soldiers
-jT55WjAWHk

---

KOS-MOS Ver. 1
http://www2.tokai.or.jp/tak.s_room/f/Kos-Mos.jpg

KOSMOS vs Gnosis
Y6QoUu6Y-oM

An example of KOS-MOS's Ver. 1 and how she will complete her objective at all costs. She smacks them Gnosis with the gatlin guns.
HV2bxXbcQVI

---

KOS-MOS uses the Zohar emulator to absorb the G-nosis armada with the X-buster.
f_VZMLfAY7Q
Zohar Emulators are energy devices imitating the real Zohar. Although they are eclipsed by the real Zohar they are still powerful by their own right since one of them absorbed a planet when it malfunctioned.

---

KOS-MOS fires the BMFG
xkL3Z8695Fg
With the Phase Transfer Cannon KOS-MOS can vaporize a star.

---

Version 1 KOS-MOS survives terminal velocity as she saves the elsa from getting incinirated.

B0NMXp6DLqY
jrlkfK85VX0

---

These are her weakest versions. She's herald level without a doubt.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Trickster, would you like to be in charge of tallying the votes for the characters?

Well...., ok. I can still vote, right?

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/zod-sticker.gif

Originally posted by socker2
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/zod-sticker.gif

So....uh, Illa? you gonna ban this guy or what? doped

The reason I voted low meta for Master Chief was because I thought he compared favorably, stat wise, to characters like Deathlok, Sabertooth and Deathstroke from the comic tier. If some other people think he's mid tier material I can bump him up though which would mean...

3 votes for Master Chief to mid meta level

The Shrike (Hyperion) to Transcendent

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
So....uh, Illa? you gonna ban this guy or what? doped

Mods can't ban. They can only request a ban, which I'm sure Ill's already done.

It takes the time for an admin to get around to pressing the button.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Well...., ok. I can still vote, right?

Of course.

Just make sure you don't doctor the numbers...

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Illa, you are a genius. This should probably be in the comic book section though.


1 vote for Alucard for high/mid herald and 1 vote for mid meta

Lina Inverse for mid herald (1)

Link for mid meta (1)

Dante for high meta (1)

Anubis & Jehuty for mid herald evillaugh you have no idea how long I've been trying to get those two into the other tier list......

Spike Spiegel for high street (1)

Ranma Saotome for low meta (1)

Ryouga Hibiki for low meta (1)

Happosai for mid/high meta (1)

Rugal Bernstein for high meta/ low herald (1)

Kelthuzad for mid herald (1)

Don't let Arthas on the list. Seriously. He's at least skyfather. Unless it's DK Arthas, in which case, mid/high meta.

Where do we put alternate forms? Or they count under the main character? If the latter, change Rugal to low herald.

Kain from Legacy Of Kain-Herald level mid/high
Kratos-Herald level low

3 votes for Master Chief to mid meta level

2 votes for Samus for high meta

2 votes for Ryu Hayabusa for low meta

1 vote for Gouki to low herald and 1 vote for meta (tier not specified)

1 vote for Mega Man to high-meta or low herald.

1 vote for Sephiroth to mid meta

1 vote for Aizen Sousuke for Low herald and 1 for mid meta

1 vote for Cutie Honey for mid/high meta

Alita from Battle Angel Alita for low meta

Um Megaman is nowhere NEAR low herald/High meta I'd put him at Mid meta TOPS.

Megaman lifted a castle at base. Go figure.

Plus he has many other abilities. Needless to say Megaman stomps Samus Aran without difficulty.

Base Megaman or Fully Equipped Megaman?

When?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Base Megaman or Fully Equipped Megaman?
What do you mean fully-equipped megaman? Equipped with what?

We're using Megaman from his storyline. In his storyline he gains all the abilities of the bots he battles. Base level would just have a megabuster. Fully equipped, depending on at which point we take him from in his storyline, would have a lot of abilities stored.

X series megaman was even more powerful.

Samus Aran vs Mega Man

I agree that X is high Meta (When fully enhanced) but regular megaman is far below him.

We have got to change some of the tiers. Wave rider is in the middle tier when he clearly is as powerful or more so than most of the top tiers.

You can discuss that over in the original list at the Comic Books Forum Nvr. We're just using that list as benchmarks for the Extended Genre Characters to establish where they'd stand compared to mainstream peers.

I'll agree with Trick's placement of the ranma characters. For the time being at any rate.

Though I'm curious as to the criterium of the placements of characters, is it just ABC ad hoc logic Or are there specific requirements to be placed at a given level?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Kain from Legacy Of Kain-Herald level mid/high
Kratos-Herald level low

3 votes for Master Chief to mid meta level

2 votes for Samus for high meta

2 votes for Ryu Hayabusa for low meta

1 vote for Gouki to low herald and 1 vote for meta (tier not specified)

1 vote for Mega Man to high-meta or low herald.

1 vote for Sephiroth to mid meta

1 vote for Aizen Sousuke for Low herald and 1 for mid meta

1 vote for Cutie Honey for mid/high meta

Alita from Battle Angel Alita for low meta
I second everything on this list except Megaman, who I volunteer for Mid Meta and his X version for low Herald.

Z from tenchi Muyo for high herald level.
here's an example of two of his attacks
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/ishot-1.jpg

before
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/ishot-2.jpg
after
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/ishot-3.jpg
I change my vote on Aizen to high Meta

I actually think Z is probably Transendent.

Originally posted by Akuki
Z from tenchi Muyo for high herald level.
here's an example of two of his attacks
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/ishot-1.jpg

before
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/ishot-2.jpg
after
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/ishot-3.jpg
I change my vote on Aizen to high Meta

Holy...

Z is totaly Trans, if not Skyfather in and of himself.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'll agree with Trick's placement of the ranma characters. For the time being at any rate.

Though I'm curious as to the criterium of the placements of characters, is it just ABC ad hoc logic Or are there specific requirements to be placed at a given level?

We're placing the characters in tiers comparable to their mainstream comic counterparts. In other words, the criteria is where would their abilities place them when compared to a "mainstream" peer of equal/similar ability, not who they would defeat in a fight.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Z is totaly Trans, if not Skyfather in and of himself.
After looking at who is on the skyfather list I agree with him being skyfather level.

What are your guys opinions on merged Knives from trigun?
I think he shoudl qualify for high meta or low herald but I'm leaning more towards high meta at the moment.

So that's two votes for Z as Skyfather.

Popularity shouldn't mean shit. What has he done to make him a skyfather?

Originally posted by Soljer
Popularity shouldn't mean shit. What has he done to make him a skyfather?

Disintegrating planets, and having the ability to reform them with ease, The Light hawk wings give him near total control over matter, and he has shown the ability to negate tenchi's abilities to such an extent that he would have won if not for the emergence of Kami tenchi(who far outstrips the Skyfather category)

Destroying and creating planets isn't Skyfather.

And, according to this, he specifically cannot control matter - unlike tenchi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_%28Tenchi_Muyo%21%29

Which STILL wouldn't mean skyfather.

Z sounds transcendent at best. I'm open to reconsidering, but, seriously....

Transcendent. .

Originally posted by Soljer
Destroying and creating planets isn't Skyfather.

And, according to this, he specifically cannot control matter - unlike tenchi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_%28Tenchi_Muyo%21%29

Which STILL wouldn't mean skyfather.

Z sounds transcendent at best. I'm open to reconsidering, but, seriously....

Transcendent. .
Ok, I can agree with transcendent as a pretty good spot for Z.

I nominate Seras for Mid level meta. In her new form she's shown very high level fighting and strength, and in the last chapter she showed that she's gained the ability to split off souls she's taken in just like Alucard
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/BKHELLSING_CH86_MQ_15.png

Where does destroying half the universe/dimension rank?

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Where does destroying half the universe/dimension rank?
Who are you talking about? Depending on the circumstances and how they did it, either transcendent or skyfather but more likely transcendent.

Also I nominate Legato bluesummers from trigun for midlevel meta
his body controlling powers make him a real ***** to fight.

I am talking about KOS-MOS's highest feat. She encounterd god and fired a beam using the Tertiary Weapon System and god countered with a beam of his own. The exchange ended with the destruction of several galaxies on panel, and in actuality everything was destroyed within seconds.

Originally posted by Akuki
Who are you talking about? Depending on the circumstances and how they did it, either transcendent or skyfather but more likely transcendent.

Also I nominate Legato bluesummers from trigun for midlevel meta
his body controlling powers make him a real ***** to fight.

2nd the vote for Seras to mid meta.

2nd Legato to mid meta.

2nd Z to transcendant

No idea on knives.

KOS-MOS with Tertiary Weapon system vs U-Do Possible Future
v6N2zkMGBQA

Allow me to stress how KOS-MOS onscreen destroyed several galaxies, but in fact she destroyed everything. This is the reason why the girl showed them that premonition. She wanted them to stop that from happening for the future of humans, non-humans and all matter of living consciousness.

"But that's just a possible future! She never did it...you can't say that she can do it because she has not!"

That would be true if KOS-MOS did not have the Tartiary Weapon system in every version of her besides version 1. Not to mention she has used this system to protect the party from U-do as well. And that if she was not capable of doing something like that then the lil girl would have had no reason to warn the party about that possible outcome.

By the way U-do is the Xenosaga god.

"How can KOS-MOS possibly match those godly energies?"

Simple. U-do's energy is the infinite Zohar. Kevin, the original creator of KOS-MOS, has stated that KOS-MOS source of power is the Zohar as well.

Trickster, where do the votes stand?

1 vote for Alucard for high/mid herald and 1 vote for mid meta

Lina Inverse for mid herald (1)

Link for mid meta (1)

Dante for high meta (1)

Anubis & Jehuty for mid herald (1)

Spike Spiegel for high street (1)

Ranma Saotome for low meta (2)

Ryouga Hibiki for low meta (2)

Happosai for mid/high meta (2)

Rugal Bernstein for high meta/ low herald (1)

Kelthuzad for mid herald (1)

1 vote for Kain from Legacy Of Kain-Herald level mid/high
1 vote for Kratos-Herald level low

3 votes for Master Chief to mid meta level

2 votes for Samus for high meta

2 votes for Ryu Hayabusa for low meta

1 vote for Gouki to low herald and 1 vote for meta (tier not specified)

1 vote for Mega Man to high-meta or low herald.

1 vote for Sephiroth to mid meta

1 vote for Aizen Sousuke for Low herald and 1 for mid meta

1 vote for Cutie Honey for mid/high meta

1 vote for Alita from Battle Angel Alita for low meta

2 votes for Seras to mid meta.

2 votes for Legato to mid meta.

2 votes for Z to transcendant

1 vote for KOS-MOS to transcendant.

Merged Knives: ?????



I propose a halt to adding new characters until the current list of candidates is delt with. All in favor?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
1 vote for Alucard for high/mid herald and 1 vote for mid meta

Lina Inverse for mid herald (1)

Link for mid meta (1)

Dante for high meta (1)

Anubis & Jehuty for mid herald (1)

Spike Spiegel for high street (1)

Ranma Saotome for low meta (1)

Ryouga Hibiki for low meta (1)

Happosai for mid/high meta (1)

Rugal Bernstein for high meta/ low herald (1)

Kelthuzad for mid herald (1)

1 vote for Kain from Legacy Of Kain-Herald level mid/high
1 vote for Kratos-Herald level low

3 votes for Master Chief to mid meta level

2 votes for Samus for high meta

2 votes for Ryu Hayabusa for low meta

1 vote for Gouki to low herald and 1 vote for meta (tier not specified)

1 vote for Mega Man to high-meta or low herald.

1 vote for Sephiroth to mid meta

1 vote for Aizen Sousuke for Low herald and 1 for mid meta

1 vote for Cutie Honey for mid/high meta

1 vote for Alita from Battle Angel Alita for low meta

2 votes for Seras to mid meta.

2 votes for Legato to mid meta.

2 votes for Z to transcendant

1 vote for KOS-MOS to transcendant.

Merged Knives: ?????



I propose a halt to adding new characters until the current list of candidates is delt with. All in favor?

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'll agree with Trick's placement of the Ranma characters.

that seems pretty reasonable, just to note, I changed my vote on Aizen to high level meta instead of low herald, and I'm pretty sure Z stands at 3 votes currently

Oops. I'll edit it. That's 2 votes for the ranma guys.

Lacking the ability to manipulate matter keeps you out of skyfather level, right? No matter if you can actually destroy galaxies in combat.

I'd say KOS-MOS is grounded at transcendant all right since she lacks matter manipulation. She has decent energy manipulation; if sharing the destruction of the universe/physical dimension can only be considered decent.

KOS-MOS still has 1 vote though since I'm the first to comment about her. I was hmm...just reassuring myself.

I second Kratos for low herald.

He is a god slayer afterall.

I also vote for Rygar at mid meta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9zdMSAIB-s

What are some examples of skyfather level characters in comics? For example, where would the Lord of Nightmares from Slayers be ranked? does she fall into the Skyfather category or is there a category above that?

Dante- middle herald level
K'- low meta

Why are you putting Dante in middle herald level?

Not that I'm saying he is not, but I'd like to gain more knowledge about Dante. The anime is sweet, but you probably knew that.

I agree about K' being a low meta.

Well, I'll give you a list (counting his Nocturne apparance which chronologywise "overwrites" his DMC 2 appearance). Anime Dante is a sucky one featwise, he looks nothing more that mid meta.


SOME of dante's feats
able to see and interact (sometimes "interaction" includes killing) immaterial creatures (i.e ghosts);
can teleport (actually that's combat teleportation,no portals);
was fast anough to RIDE a rocket from a rocket launcher;
has had mystical scythes from hell vanguard creatures pierce 80% of his body {practically slised in pieces} and still went on to eat his pizza and kill all the grim reaper's ass};
ran faster than a speeding bullet and the air around him started burning;
wields weapons containing fire hotter than the heart of a volcano and enough to damage the abussal cold of the deepest hell;
destroyed a being who could have wiped the normal universe clean of life;
has survived in the underworld;
was unnafftected by both the fire of hell, lightning, light of abaddon, elements of Cerberus (ice), Agni and Rudra (wind and fire0, and the list goes on.
manhandles mystical beats the size of large scyscrappers with brute strength
has a mystical element to all his attacks, even bullets (and able to add his mystical energy not only to weapons to improve them, but also to regular things like his bike);
easily sliced an incoming missile in half without blinking or making it explode;
doesnt need air/water/food to survive,;
easily slices through boulders 10s of times larger than highrise buildings;
easily destroyed a god who was the very embodiment of the abstract despair;
was moving faster than the human eye can persieve while fighting vergil;
was hired by lucifer himself{a being shown later to be beyond the amala multiverse} to hunt down his candelbra of the sephiroth to open the entrance of the sealed hell which yahweh himself had sealed
toyed with the demi fiend, lucifer's greatest creation and in the end only let him live cause he wanted to see more of the ongoing drama and get his JACKPOT
easily withstood and had a part in defeating beelzebub, a demon beyond the amala multiverse
easily withstood the power of metatron an angel one with god and beyond the multiverse and also had a great hand in his defeat
withstood the power of lucifer himself and had a part in his defeat{technically} who was ALSO beyond the muyltiverse and even metatron.
survived the most evil and wicked cloister of hell{5th kalpa} while fighting the strongest demons and looked like he was just having afteroon tea.
resisted and had a hand in defeating kagutsuchi the light that destroyes the universe and gives birth to the next one.
was shot twice in the head and brushed it off as being rather bored and took his own blood and licked it/wrote sumthing on the wall with it
is faster than speeding bullets, as he easily slices through them
when he was impaled through the chest with an extremely powerful mystical sword with further mystical strength by trish, got right up, while casually talking to Trish, pulled the sword out of himself and gouged it in the ground.
is stronger than Sparda, a demon who single handedly forced the entire underwolrd and its lord to fall and sealed it all;
can stop time;
can slow time
can use his shadow to create clone of himself, which is practically imprevious to physical damage;
can traverse in all mystical dimension;
can take "demonic lord" form or Sparda form, resembling his father, in which he's capable of travelling on subluminal speed, can be killed only by demonic magic of high order and able to fire really powerful energy blasts
_________________________
Actually if we count Nocturne (Nocturne feats are marked in the list), then Dante is the strongest demon of his universe nowadays

Nice list of feats. By the way I know the anime version of Dante is weak, but the anime itself ain't half bad. Although I would love to see Dante use other weapons.

Are all of those feats in-game, or are you using stuff from other appearances?

Anime itself is rather nice and cool...though I'd love to see more devil arms. Only Rebellion, Ebony and Ivory is boring.

Sorry for spelling...I've borrowed the list from one person who isn't known to be a brilliant speller and didn't have time to correct all the mistakes.

___________
Those feats are in-game (thjough bike is from anime, and Nocturne, though it was added to official chronology by some sourses, is debatable (though I'm sure that it's more than canon (chronologically it overwrites DMC2, expalining Dante's "pasttime" at Hell), unlike Viewtiful Joe, which was a bit of joke, so I counted Nocturne).

That list got me curious. Looks like Dante will become my next hobby--same as KOS-MOS was a couple of weeks ago.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Anime itself is rather nice and cool...though I'd love to see more devil arms. Only Rebellion, Ebony and Ivory is boring.

Sorry for spelling...I've borrowed the list from one person who isn't known to be a brilliant speller and didn't have time to correct all the mistakes.

___________
Those feats are in-game (thjough bike is from anime, and Nocturne, though it was added to official chronology by some sourses, is debatable (though I'm sure that it's more than canon (chronologically it overwrites DMC2, expalining Dante's "pasttime" at Hell), unlike Viewtiful Joe, which was a bit of joke, so I counted Nocturne). There's a spellchecker button next to the preview button.

No worries though.

Something more about Dante's healing factor (he took sword through his heart like nothing, and bullets didn't even seem to disturb him more that a mosquito bite)



Also the highhest level of Royal Guard style allows him to create sort of forcefield around himself which converts damage he gets into health for him.

Dante's healing factor is off the charts. I've seen the clip of Dante getting pierced by multiple ax wielding demons and the way he just plays with them while he slays them by using the same blades piercing his body against them. The instant heal after pulling the blades out is also demonstrated in that sequence.

I wonder why you never commented on the Sons of Sparda vs KOS-MOS thread I made in the games vs forum.

I don't know much about KOS-MOS to have an unbiased debate.

ANd the Hell Vanguards "pizza feat" is also included in the list...

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
I don't know much about KOS-MOS to have an unbiased debate.

Understood.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel

ANd the Hell Vanguards "pizza feat" is also included in the list...

I know that is why I talked about it.

By the way when do you think the events of the anime take place if it was included in the DMC canon? Possibly after Devil May Cry?

Yes, most probably...since Dante contacts both Trish and Lady (but loves strawberries with whipped cream).

I want strawberry ice cream now because of him asking for one in every god damn episode....Yeah I just watched 7 of those episode sin a row. I usually hate toddlers in animes, but the patty kid is funny and the way she interacts with Dante always cracks me up.

Mmm.. strawberries...

By the way...game version of K' is low level meta surely, but comics version (which I prefer to use in debates at comics vs forum and on which I've made a respect thread)looks more like mid level meta (some feats like controlling lava stream by adding his fire to it or bloving up a skyscraper from distance are really nice). Though those feats are further explanation of gameplay abilities like Iron Trigger.

But the difference isn't too dramatically big there to make a fuss about it...but it exists. I prefer NeoSun comics version in "comics vs" debates. Superboy Prime, you should remember my K' vs Wolverine one.

But game version is much more familiar to people than comics one *I prefer to state which version I debate about* so it's nothing wrong with him being rated by game version level.

Also if we have things like Fernus at Skyfather then Dante 9if we count his Nocturne feats is also worthy of the ranks, though he lacks matter manipulation).

I do think it will be damn near impossible to notice, and subsequently close, duplicate threads with the new "all character" rule. ermm

It's not an "all-character" rule...

Would Vash the Stampede fit into high metahuman based on that his Angel Arm can literally level cities and blew a hole into the Fifth Moon of Gunsmoke... or high street level considering barring that he's basically an incredibly skilled gunman...?

Originally posted by illadelph12
It's not an "all-character" rule... Pretty darn tootin' close to it though, from what I've seen.

srug

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Would Vash the Stampede fit into high metahuman based on that his Angel Arm can literally level cities and blew a hole into the Fifth Moon of Gunsmoke... or high street level considering barring that he's basically an incredibly skilled gunman...?

Hmm...

Probably Low meta (averages). If he's a street leveler with slightly above average durability but a lot of fire power I'd put him there.

I'm repeating the "averaging" I did above.

K' is low meta level no matter NeoSun version or "mainstream" game version(even NeoSun comics version lacks steady amouth of feats for mid meta, though that version has some desent pyrokinesis feats).

As for Dante...I'm unsure. Featwise he's between high/middle herald level. He lacks matter transmutation which is one of requirements for high herald AFAIK but has other feats like time control or resisting his soul being drained for 15 minutes...But sans matter transmutation he's easily on Blackheart level (his true demonic lord "Sparda" form is practically invinsible and can be affected only by highest order magic\reality warping). And Blackheart is a skyfather.
So either high level herald or even skyfather level.

Dante as in Devil May Cry?

Yes. DMC 1-3 +Nocturne (all canonical appearances by now)

Ganondorf for Low Herald.


I think.

Originally posted by SnazzySmurph
Ganondorf for Low Herald.


I think.

I can see that assuming we allow him his triforce as standard equipment.

Assuming that high herald\subskyfather requires the ability to destroy a planet, Dante is between mid\high herald (that's my final claim on it).

Where would we rank, this guy


http://www.genreonline.net/Genre_files/SamuariJackFinale1.JPG

Low\mid meta...he was able to cut adamantium once?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Low\mid meta...he was able to cut adamantium once? Hmm, maybe so. But he also defeated some elemental monters, that whooped the crap out of Aku.

He doesn't look more than mid, maybe high meta (high meta would be too much of a credit, though).

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Low\mid meta...he was able to cut adamantium once? There's no telling how that worl'ds adamantium compares with the Marvel Universe of Adamantium. Adamantine for example is a real mineral which is not even as hard as a diamond. However obviously adamantium in the Marvelverse is much harder than diamonds.

So mid meta at most?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
So mid meta at most?
Mid meta seems pretty fair for him.

But beating people ain't that big of a deal.

I mean...if we start using "Well this guy beat this and that" Hayabusa would be in the herald league, and that's way too much.

Herald league should be supported by powerset. Dante has that powerset (timecontrol powers, demonic lord form which is able to makle Superman brick in his pants), Hayabusa- no...

Meta human should be supported by powerset as well. Only street level should use the "beat this and that" argument since there are no powerset for them and the only way we can gauge them is by commenting on their skills and victory over other opponents.

My 2 cents.

BTW I have no problem with Dante being herald level. I was more concerned about Samurai Jack being a meta human simply because he cut through "adamantium" and beat some elemental monsters.

Edit: I nominate Solid Snake for high Street Level. A lack of powerset makes him human, but his feats...well...lets keep him High Street Level.

There should be powers-related feats to debate about, not who beat who- it's boring and ruins the whole idea of that list.

For example, Iceman is low herald level. Emma Frost is high meta, but everyone agrees that it's easy for Emma to f*ck Bobby's mind...


Edit:Ryu (SF) for either High Street Level or Low Meta (chi-related powers).

Agreed.

Iron Fist (pretty much the same powerset) is Low meta, so Ryu should also belong there.

Ingiz (KOF) for High meta\low herald

Low meta sounds good for Ryu. I vote for that as well.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I can see that assuming we allow him his triforce as standard equipment.

IMO it should be allowed since it is basically a part of him.

I say Sora from Kingdom Hearts should be high mid tier

Ide suggest adding Deadpool to High street
For somewhat obvious reasons, the two noteworthy being his
incredible healing factor &
top tier fighting ability
also vast arsenal and versatility

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
1 vote for Alucard for high/mid herald and 1 vote for mid meta

Lina Inverse for mid herald (1)

Link for mid meta (2)

Dante for high meta (1) mid herald (2)

Anubis & Jehuty for mid herald (1)

Spike Spiegel for high street (2)

Ranma Saotome for low meta (3)

Ryouga Hibiki for low meta (3)

Happosai for mid/high meta (3)

Rugal Bernstein for high meta/ low herald (1)

Kelthuzad for mid herald (1)

1 vote for Kain from Legacy Of Kain-Herald level mid/high
1 vote for Kratos-Herald level low

3 votes for Master Chief to mid meta level

3 votes for Samus for high meta

2 votes for Ryu Hayabusa for low meta

1 vote for Gouki to low herald and 1 vote for meta (tier not specified)

1 vote for Mega Man to high-meta or low herald.

1 vote for Sephiroth to mid meta

1 vote for Aizen Sousuke for Low herald and 1 for mid meta

1 vote for Cutie Honey for mid/high meta

1 vote for Alita from Battle Angel Alita for low meta

2 votes for Seras to mid meta.

2 votes for Legato to mid meta.

2 votes for Z to transcendant

1 vote for KOS-MOS to transcendant.

Merged Knives: ?????
1 vote for K' to low meta.

1 vote for Sora (KH) to hig meta
1 vote for Vash the stampede to Low meta.
2 votes for Ganondorf to low herald


I propose a halt to adding new characters until the current list of candidates is delt with. All in favor?


There. I finally got all the votes together. NOW STOP ADDING PEOPLE!! Vote on the huge ass list we got now.

Extra, this is the wrong thread. And you're suggesting DP get bumped down. He's currently low meta.

Ok, I agree with the placement of all the Ranma 1/2 characters, Spike Spigel, Link, dante for mid herald, and samus

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
There. I finally got all the votes together. NOW STOP ADDING PEOPLE!! Vote on the huge ass list we got now.

Extra, this is the wrong thread. And you're suggesting DP get bumped down. He's currently low meta. You can take out the votes that place people in tiers that they're already in (like the ones for Samus to high meta).

And you missed the two for Ganondorf to low herald.

Added the votes.


Will Illa and the other mods add everyone who has 3 votes in, please?

Smurph, do you want to help Trickster out with this? I trust both of your competency.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Added the votes.


Will Illa and the other mods add everyone who has 3 votes in, please?

On it.

What are the current 3 vote characters...?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Smurph, do you want to help Trickster out with this? I trust both of your competency. When I can.

I marked them in my previous post.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
There. I finally got all the votes together. NOW STOP ADDING PEOPLE!! Vote on the huge ass list we got now.

Extra, this is the wrong thread. And you're suggesting DP get bumped down. He's currently low meta.
oops
ctrl+F'ed and didnt se him
but ctrl+f is a bit faulty

I second Z to transcendant...

And I vote megaman for mid meta.

kratos from the end of god or war 1 for mid herald level

Kratos for low herald.
Megaman -high meta.

I still believe Mega Man should be a low herald.

@Superboy Prime

Fully "equipped"- definetely herald level. And I wonder who was the one who voted Dante for high meta...

As for Megaman, I'm still not decided whether he's high meta or low herald.

All I know is that in a Samus Aran vs Mega Man thread I made in the games vs forum everyone believed it was basically spite. They actually made good points and even convinced me Mega Man was leaps and bounds above Miss Aran. If Aran is considered a high meta then Mega Man definitely belongs in the herald level. Personally I think Samus Aran is not high meta, but more like middle meta. She is basically a step behind becoming a high meta IF we compare her to Iron Man IMO.

In that case...Kratos can be fine orientation point for judging Dante. They're pretty much on same level (Dante maybe a bit higher)- mid herald or (being really modest) low herald.

Did Kratos ever show any matter/energy/whatever manipulation when he was the God of War?

I agree for Dante as mid-herald.

I think that's more than 3 votes for Dante Mid-Herald.

Well, if we count things like Meduza gaze...but I've already said what I think about that ugly Greek at Kratos vs Dante on Games vs forum and I don't want to repeat the same thing twice.
Kratos for low herald is fine (it was very hard to decide how he actually can hurt Dante for good and were some sdtupid points like knocking down flying Dante with lightning- even though his flight ability is lightning related).

It may be more than 3. I just seen the list of what was up and Dante only had 2 and he wasn't on the front page. So I just thought I'd agree cause I think he's got the power to be mid-Herald.

Nothing wrong with that. I was just making the comment because I liked that placement for Dante. I had not given my vote on Dante before because I got carried away asking Charlotte why she placed him there. Needless to say I agree witth yall.

Dante for mid-herald.

Question...what would phase transfer mass manipulation be considered? It's a term used in the Xenosaga verse...but I have no idea what it actually means....or if there's anything close ressembling that.

Does it show what it does? I have no idea what that would be considered.

It's a cartridge that KOS-MOS loads into her handgun/blaster/wtf knows(whatever the damned thing is called) and she claims that by limiting the phase transfer mass she can take an accurate shot without vaporizing a star. So the Phase Transfer Cannon--as the thing is called--has the capacity to destroy a star.

Maybe it takes the weapon down in power or makes the beam or whatever shoots out smaller and more focused.

I'm curious about what limiting the phase transfer mass could be...matter manipulation/energy manipulation? WTF? Wonder why the developers did not use a real term...Oh well.

Edit: It is probably energy manipulation, but the mass at the end of it drives me nut.

Z is far beyond Transcendent, I'd actually put him somewhere between Celestial and Eternity level.

He was an anomaly created by Tokimi (multiversal goddess that created the hyperdimension, at least 11 universes), and he has 5 Light Hawk Wings. Light Hawk Wings are a manifestation of divine cosmic power, which are essentially a programmer's back door, or "cheat code" for the universe (the programmer being the Chousein, Tokimi, Tsunami, and Washu). They automatically respond to any attack appearing just in time to defend, and nullify the attack, multiplying it by 0 across all space, time, and dimensional vectors, ignoring/locally rewriting any laws of physics that get in their way. When used for offense, they completely negate an opponent's defenses, again multiplying them by 0, and erase the opponent's essence completely from existence. Kagato, who had incredible powers of regeneration, simply faded away into nothingness when he was touched by Tenchi's Light Hawk Wing Sword. When a black hole opened around Tenchi and his friends, his Light Hawk Wings activated, changing the local gravitational constant and nullifying the gravity and time dilation, and he saved them and escaped. Also, even without his Light Hawk Wings, Tokimi stated that the power required for her to kill Z would be enough to destroy the third dimension (the normal universe, closest to the one we recognize, containing Earth, the planets, solar systems, galaxies, etc.). She could have done it but didn't want to for that reason, since the Counter-Actor was fighting her and the consequences would be unpredictable.

Anyway, Z's feats include:

Crossing between universes in the hyperdimension in order to outrun the galaxy police

Blocking hundreds of shots from a fleet of thousands of powerful ships (and even the weakest ships in the Tenchiverse can one - shot planets easily), and then destroying them all with one attack.

When his powers first appeared, one of his eyes and part of his head had been injured in a fight, they were instantly regenerated with strange new purplish forms, and his Light Hawk Wings appeared and shattered the ship he was in, piercing and nullifying some of the constructs created by Tokimi to test him. He then formed his LHWs into a ring and released a shockwave that destroyed all of the constructs in a huge radius in space around him.

He observed events on earth from another dimension, remaining undetectable even to Washu in her mortal form, then he arrived and used some sort of molecular transmutation to change the contents of the message Mihoshi had written, in order to trick her brother into trying to destroy the Earth (and kill Tenchi).

After Mihoshi's brother's ship, the Chobimaru, was defeated by Ryoko and Ryo-Ohki, Z decided to take care of matters personally, and he attacked earth, destroying most of it just to lure out Tenchi.

When he was introducing himself to Tenchi in orbit of the destroyed Earth, he waved his hand and caused huge burning lines to appear on the remnants of earth, spelling out his name.

He then destroyed the moon, and its debris fell toward Tenchi. Tenchi's Light Hawk Wings transformed into their battle forms to protect him, but Z sacrificed 3 of his own LHWs to cancel out Tenchi's, and then sent one of his two remaining towards him, as it erased any asteroids it hit from existence.

Tenchi reacted instinctively, using his power to teleport to the orbit of Saturn in only a few seconds, but Z was already there waiting for him. Then Z summoned the Counter - Actor (who he had travelled to the far future to enlist the aid of), and she trapped Tenchi. Z attacked him, but Tokimi blocked his attack, and the resultant shockwave destroyed Saturn's rings.

Z began to transform his body into pure light to pass through Tokimi's hand, she threatened to destroy him, he stated that the power to do that would destroy the third dimension, she backed off. Then Tsunami arrived and opposed Tokimi, their quick clash blew a large hole in the galaxy.

Ryoko appeared in Ryo-Ohki, and Ryoko attacked him, but her attacks were ineffective. Ryo - Ohki then attacked him with the same attack it had used to completely destroy the Chobimaru (a planet - size spaceship with the power to destroy the earth in one shot), but Z blocked Ryo-Ohki's attack with one hand and sliced it in half with one of his Light Hawk Wings. Part of Ryo-Ohki managed to detach beforehand and escaped, though.

Finally, Z attacked Tenchi, and bisected him with his Light Hawk Wing. Tenchi's mortal body died, but it released the hidden power within him, which was the avatar of the Kami Tenchi, the true omnipotent being that was above the Chousein. The power released from Tenchi and finally killed Z. However, it went out of control and began shaking apart the multiverse, and the Chousein couldn't stop it.

Meanwhile, Tenchi's mortal soul was sent throughout the hyperdimension and back to a certain moment in time, where he rescued the female form of Kagato (don't ask - it's complicated). Anyway, Kami Tenchi appeared, caused the Counter - Actor to back down, thus saving Tsunami, and stopped the power overflow and returned Tenchi back to his body, reviving him.

The Chousein fixed the damage to the multiverse and reincarnated Z's soul in a new body, to give him a second chance at life.

Here's a video demonstrating some of the things I just said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oXA_1WafkA