Cell Vs Superman

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Priest
Ok this is Cell after he regenerated from a single cell after he blew him self up when Gohan fought him.
So, we got "Ultra-Perfection" Cell Vs Superman.
One stipulation, NO T-VOermm

NiņoAraņa
Originally posted by Priest
Ok this is Cell after he regenerated from a single cell after he blew him self up when Gohan fought him.
So, we got "Ultra-Perfection" Cell Vs Superman.
One stipulation, NO T-VOermm can i get ice-breath for 200, then giant ice chunk thrown into the sun (ala Sentry!) for 400?

Priest

NiņoAraņa
Originally posted by Priest
thats a possibility, but Cell did display shields though out his series. Also i really doubt he would just stand there and let superman hit him with some freeze breath. Cell is noted for his super speed when fighting.
but i do agree with you, the Sun would def kill cell. so couldn't Superman say...skip the freeze breath and just grab him with his vastly superior speed and place him in the sun. and just wait there with him until he dies?

Sundipped
Cell can hang in there for a while using instant transmission but Supes would most likley put a beating on him and make him think about self destructing. When this happens then Supes takes him to the sun. Goku couldn't do that because he can't breathe in space. Now that I think about it Goku couldn't even survive planet explosion. Cell blew up and took out Goku, K-Ki's planet and everything on it.

Priest

Creshosk
Originally posted by Priest
Superior Fight speed maybe..
But combat speed Cell has Superman beat imo..
......
Also if Supes decides grabbing cell and taking him into the sun, Whats gonna stop cell from using instant transmission and teleporting to safety?

Cell also has the option to BFR Supes into the Ki dimension and leave him there for ever. When did cell use IT?

Priest
Originally posted by Creshosk
When did cell use IT?
He absorbed the technique from Goku after Goku teleported him away from earth. Thats how Cell was able to escape the Ki dimension.

Galvaclaw
Superman has vast combat speed. His reflexes are at the very least lightspeed.

Priest
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Superman has vast combat speed. His reflexes are at the very least lightspeed.
Not really, supes has only displayed light speed in travel.

He's not flash imo, he does not have light speed reaction time, and reflexes.

superkronick92
Even though it's not necessarilly canon, in GT Cell got his ass wiped by Kid Goku, and was frozen ina freakin ICE MACHINE, freeze breath alone should take him down

Galvaclaw
Incorrect. Superman has displayed vastly faster than light speeds while flying.

He's capable of running with the Flash for a good while. He's been shown to have faster combat speed than Wonder Woman who also has impressive combat speed. Superman has countless combat speed feets. He is at least Cells equal.

Priest
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Incorrect. Superman has displayed vastly faster than light speeds while flying.
Yes, while flying, e.g travel speed.

He's capable of running with the Flash for a good while. He's been shown to have faster combat speed than Wonder Woman who also has impressive combat speed. Superman has countless combat speed feets. He is at least Cells equal.
yes, but flash is much much faster than Superman. Seriously Superman cannot reach the speed force, so Flash>>>Superman.

Look at IC, SuperBoy was laughing at Superman in regards to his speed.
Put superman against a non CIS blood-lusted flash or Zoom, and Supes gets taken out in a pino second.

Kutulu
Originally posted by superkronick92
Even though it's not necessarilly canon, in GT Cell got his ass wiped by Kid Goku, and was frozen ina freakin ICE MACHINE, freeze breath alone should take him down

First off, that's GT which is NON-CANON as everybody likes to say here at KMC.

Secondly it was mystical ice, and it was the spirit of Cell not his physical body.

In regards to ice-breath: Not gonna happen. Cell can counter ice-breath easily and then will be able to use ice breath himself. In regards to dunking Cell in the sun: Not gonna happen, Cell has instant transmission and can instantly teleport himself from dimensional boundries and cross space at any distance instantly.

In regards to beating Cell up: If Cell gets beat up, he regenerates becoming stronger. Any technique Superman uses on Cell will make him stronger, and if it's a technique that Cell doesn't know about, chances are he can figure it out and start using something similar.

Cell is basically like Doomsday, except give him Super Speed, faster regeneration, vast intelligence and energy projection powers. Cell once he came back was in a constant SSJ2 state and was able to maintain it indefinitely unlike Gohan or Goku.

Cell wins hands down 10/10.

Galvaclaw
And Flash and Zoom are much faster than cell so i don't see where you're going with this.



Cell's never learnt any non Ki based techniques. It's not like he can learn ice breath off Superman.

Why are we so obsessed with the Sun? Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun anyway.



Er...Doomsday has superspeed and regeneration. Also when did Cell show himself to have vast inteligence?

SevenShackles
Originally posted by Galvaclaw

Er...Doomsday has superspeed and regeneration. Also when did Cell show himself to have vast inteligence?
cant you tell by his dub accent alone? the man is a genius!
rolling on floor laughing rolling on floor laughing
seriously tho he seemed abit stupid to me from first form down to his last. a big talker was all he was.

also him knowing details and things from people who make up who his DNA or w/e doesnt count. when it comes to attacks he can use it so he knows how it works. and even then he sorta fell abit short. and you dont need to be smart to notice you can take advantage of vegetas pride.

he is not smart. just a prick. a prick from the future

Priest
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
And Flash and Zoom are much faster than cell so i don't see where you're going with this.
Ur were insinuating that Superman is only a little slower than Flash.
Im just pointing out that Superman is no where near as fast as some one that can access the speed force.

SeerQris
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
And Flash and Zoom are much faster than cell so i don't see where you're going with this.



Cell's never learnt any non Ki based techniques. It's not like he can learn ice breath off Superman.

Why are we so obsessed with the Sun? Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun anyway.



Er...Doomsday has superspeed and regeneration. Also when did Cell show himself to have vast inteligence?

I agree that Cell won't be learning Ice Breath. Cell doesnt take techniques during absorption but he does get stronger based off of how strong his opponent is. If he absorbs Superman he wil become .... very strong, I think this is note worthy enough to take into account during this battle.

Priest
Originally posted by SeerQris
I agree that Cell won't be learning Ice Breath. Cell doesnt take techniques during absorption but he does get stronger based off of how strong his opponent is. If he absorbs Superman he wil become .... very strong,
He did showed that he was able to absorb and use the IT from Goku.
Originally posted by SeerQris
I think this is note worhty enough to take into account during this battle.
very true.

ExtraMision5555
IMO, Cell would have a good fight with superman, but consistantly come out on top. Speciffically his regeneration in conjunction with the plethora of all his abilities, not to mention a vastly superior fighter as compared to superman

Galvaclaw
Isn't IT a Ki based technique that concievbly any beingin the Dragonball universe could learn with time and skill?



He is? What's his skill feats?

Priest
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Isn't IT a Ki based technique that concievbly any beingin the Dragonball universe could learn with time and skill?

I suppose, but Cell did use it, and learned it from Goku.

GGS
let's get down to brass tacks here people if supes does one of those huge heat vision blasts after ice breath will there be anything left of cell to survive?

carver9
This fight is so retarded. Superman dont stand a chance against cell. There have been many fights made through wizard (even though people dont accept wizard battles) with superman in them.

1 fight that they did was superman vs krillin. It was stated in the entire fight that krillin was to fast for superman but superman ended up catching krillin of gaurd hitting him with a hay maker. Krillin ended up getting mad, speed blitz superman and ended him with a destructo disk. Wizard #98.

2 time. They had the jla vs vegeta and nappa. Nappa immediately pulled out his trump card lifting his fingers up blowing up the entire surrounding. In the book vegeta stood back watching nappa fighting the jla because vegita thought of them as weaklings. Nappa soloed the team ending with vegita killing the flash.

3rd battle. My favorite superman vs goku. I love this battle. I love it so much that im going to type it on here for you all to read it also.

ORIGINS Rocketed from the doomed planet kryptoon as an infant, superman crashed on earth, where his alien physiology gifted him with superpowers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men!

Goku was sent to earth by an alient race set on conquering the planet. Suffering from amnesia, goku instead became earths defender, and found the seven mystical dragonballs by wielding his super-strength, super-speed and teleportation.

THE BATTLE
The wizard babidi manipulates goku into thinking an eighth dragonball exists on a parallel earth protected by an ivincible kryptonian. The super saiyan crosses over dimensions and finds the man of steel inspecting a Lex corp satellite. Goku introduces himself by throttling superman into a nearby moon. Shaking it off, supes dodges the next couple of lunges, but the mysterious foes martial arts prowess and teleportation ability allows him to land more blows. The man of steel proves to be able to absorb more punishment than the orange-clad bruiser, and surprises goku with a couple of blasts of heat vision. Wanting to end the struggle, goku rapidly teleports, landing a dozen blows to supes in the span of a second. Not falling for the same trick, Supermans supervision detects a particle flux when goku teleports, allowing him to anticipate where his foe will appear. As the z warrior winks out and reappears, Superman unleashes a haymaker, pounding goku deep into the moons surface. The man of steel demands an explanation of this assault, but goku amps up to super-saiyan mode and fires off a kamehameha blast that fries supes like a fish stick! Pressing his attack, a furious goku unleashes a planet-destroying punch that hits a stunned superman square in the "S" shield, knocking him clear off the moon and back towards Earth. Realizing the fall might kill the kryptonian, goku teleports and catches superman before he goes splat. It is then that goku senses there are no such dragonballs on this Earth. Apologizing for his dishonor, goku humbly begs for forgiveness before heading back to his own dimension to take out the lying babidi. Puzzle at what had just happened, a woozy superman collapses unconscious, awaiting medical treatment.

Superboy Prime
Originally posted by Priest
Not really, supes has only displayed light speed in travel.

He's not flash imo, he does not have light speed reaction time, and reflexes.

Say...wouldn't he need to have faster than light speed reaction times and reflexes to be able to travel at light speed?

Just a thought.

carver9
Superman dont stand a chance in this battle. Anyone that knows anything about both characters would know this.

carver9
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Say...wouldn't he need to have faster than light speed reaction times and reflexes to be able to travel at light speed?

Just a thought.

If you can do me a favor. Can you show me a bio or anything that show or say superman can move at light speed. I want to actually see the word light speed. Also, I want this scan or whatever you show to be on earth. In earths gravity. I promise you wont find one.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Say...wouldn't he need to have faster than light speed reaction times and reflexes to be able to travel at light speed?

Just a thought.

DISCLAIMER: I know superman can move at light speed

But literally to answer your question: He could accellerate to light speed, which is much different than going from 0 to Light.

carver9
This fight is a joke superman has no way of beating cell. Might not even land a lick. Why is this fight still going on. Maybe you all need to team superman up with someone so that they could at least pose a threat to cell. Someone from dragonball z.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by carver9
This fight is a joke superman has no way of beating cell. Might not even land a lick. Why is this fight still going on. Maybe you all need to team superman up with someone so that they could at least pose a threat to cell. Someone from dragonball z.

Superman definatley does have a way(s) of beating cell
I just dont think its as likely as the opposite happening

carver9
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Superman definatley does have a way(s) of beating cell
I just dont think its as likely as the opposite happening

I just dont agree. Cell stood there and took everything that the dbz had to offer until goku powered up to the power that he was at. He took super human punches to the head and just stood there. Took all kinds of blast to the body and stood there.

By the way, the only time i have ever seen picollo and above characters getting koed was when vegeto suprised attack goku when him and goku was fighting at super saiyan 2 and vegeta was surprised. Besides that they have never been koed under physical force. Cell had no weakness.

I dont see anything in superman disposal that would drop cell. Writers have proven on many cases that dragonball z characters are over superman and him fighting cell is a mitch match battle.

cell 10/ 10

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
If you can do me a favor. Can you show me a bio or anything that show or say superman can move at light speed. I want to actually see the word light speed. Also, I want this scan or whatever you show to be on earth. In earths gravity. I promise you wont find one.

Show me some scans that say Dragonball characters can move at light-speed or faster. And I want actual scans, even though you never seem to provide any unless their available in respect threads.

I want to see the actual words light-speed used, hell, see if you can even find one that says supersonic speeds. And any dub errors aren't going to cut it.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Rorschach
Show me some scans that say Dragonball characters can move at light-speed or faster. And I want actual scans, even though you never seem to provide any unless their available in respect threads.

I want to see the actual words light-speed used, hell, see if you can even find one that says supersonic speeds. And any dub errors aren't going to cut it.

Goku can atleast keep up with superman, its safe to assume cell can as well. One example would be the time when Goku was defending himself from 2 assailents in such a manner that he appeared motionless (as if he were a ghost) as his attackers flew through him. One of the attackers (berter?) said he was capable of moving at light speed. Their true speed remains to be seen but it is absolutely, absolutely, enough to hang with the likes of superman in combat. One of his teamates could also freeze time, i dont think its far-feteched to say they can keep up with superman.

Conversely, regarding craver9's post

Superman has destroyed planets with omniblasts
Im willing to bet it MIGHT vaporize cell (though he did come back from virtually nothing)
Eitehr way, superman is formitable, i think you just lack deep superman knoweldge. I still think cell wins though

Kutulu
Originally posted by Rorschach
Show me some scans that say Dragonball characters can move at light-speed or faster. And I want actual scans, even though you never seem to provide any unless their available in respect threads.

I want to see the actual words light-speed used, hell, see if you can even find one that says supersonic speeds. And any dub errors aren't going to cut it.

Well since the Manga was made in Japanese, and you will not accept dub errors, then you are requesting the impossible unless you are a master in Japanese linguistics, and even if you were, how would you prove the Japanese manga said something versus someone else's word?

How about I make a request of you that's equal in absurdity:

Show me a scan of Superman, dressed in nothing but a pink teddy, serving omelets made up of fried Super Mario brothers to Darkseid, then I will accept your challenge.

Rorschach
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
One of the attackers (berter?) said he was capable of moving at light speed.

I don't remember this being said. Not in the anime, and sure as hell not in the manga.

Right now I'm not interested in if Superman can keep up with Cell. I just want carver to actually a provide a scan where it's stated a Dragonball character is moving at light speed.

Rorschach
Originally posted by Kutulu
Well since the Manga was made in Japanese, and you will not accept dub errors, then you are requesting the impossible unless you are a master in Japanese linguistics, and even if you were, how would you prove the Japanese manga said something versus someone else's word?

How about I make a request of you that's equal in absurdity:

Show me a scan of Superman, dressed in nothing but a pink teddy, serving omelets made up of fried Super Mario brothers to Darkseid, then I will accept your challenge.

laughing

I not saying Dragonball character can or can not move at light-speeds.

I'm asking from a from the Dragonball manga where it's stated that a character is moving at light speed since carver is asking for a scan where it's stated that Superman can move at light-speed or beyond. To carver, going light-years in a matter of minutes or reaching somewhere faster than light can does not prove Superman is FTL. I'm applying the same to Goku and other Dragonball characters.

And the manga was translated, even scans from the translated versions would do.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Rorschach
I don't remember this being said. Not in the anime, and sure as hell not in the manga.

Right now I'm not interested in if Superman can keep up with Cell. I just want carver to actually a provide a scan where it's stated a Dragonball character is moving at light speed.

Fair.

carver9
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Goku can atleast keep up with superman, its safe to assume cell can as well. One example would be the time when Goku was defending himself from 2 assailents in such a manner that he appeared motionless (as if he were a ghost) as his attackers flew through him. One of the attackers (berter?) said he was capable of moving at light speed. Their true speed remains to be seen but it is absolutely, absolutely, enough to hang with the likes of superman in combat. One of his teamates could also freeze time, i dont think its far-feteched to say they can keep up with superman.

Conversely, regarding craver9's post

Superman has destroyed planets with omniblasts
Im willing to bet it MIGHT vaporize cell (though he did come back from virtually nothing)
Eitehr way, superman is formitable, i think you just lack deep superman knoweldge. I still think cell wins though

Theres no lack of knowledge, you all are giving him to much credit. Superman has never destroyed a planet except when he went to the core of the planet and did it.

I do know that hawkman knocked superman out with a punch that was stated feeling like being hit by a planet. I do know that superman almost got killed by blast coming from a ship that had him bleeding and bruised up, (along with captain marvel.). I do know that a scream from black canary temporarily disabled superman. I do know that doomsday (who was possessed by brainiac) knocked superman out by ramming his head against a mountain. I do know that superman was killed by mere punches that only broke some nearby windows but cell throw punches that is felt across the universe. I do know that batman who at the time didnt possess any kind of super speed but was possessed by the black crystal was whipping the hell out of superman.

My lack of superman logic isnt the subject because who dont read superman comics. It the fact that you all are over powering him. Superman has no way of beating cell or almost any of the enemies that goku have. Majority of goku enemies would laugh at superman and wouldnt even consider him as big as a threat as you all put it.

I would fuss for thor all day long. And I know almost every feat that thor has done and I know all of his power. I also think that thor is >superman but Thor would get crushed by cell also. Completely annihillated.

Cell 10/10

carver9
Originally posted by Kutulu
Well since the Manga was made in Japanese, and you will not accept dub errors, then you are requesting the impossible unless you are a master in Japanese linguistics, and even if you were, how would you prove the Japanese manga said something versus someone else's word?

How about I make a request of you that's equal in absurdity:

Show me a scan of Superman, dressed in nothing but a pink teddy, serving omelets made up of fried Super Mario brothers to Darkseid, then I will accept your challenge.

laughing

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by carver9
Theres no lack of knowledge, you all are giving him to much credit. Superman has never destroyed a planet except when he went to the core of the planet and did it.

I do know that hawkman knocked superman out with a punch that was stated feeling like being hit by a planet. I do know that superman almost got killed by blast coming from a ship that had him bleeding and bruised up, (along with captain marvel.). I do know that a scream from black canary temporarily disabled superman. I do know that doomsday (who was possessed by brainiac) knocked superman out by ramming his head against a mountain. I do know that superman was killed by mere punches that only broke some nearby windows but cell throw punches that is felt across the universe. I do know that batman who at the time didnt possess any kind of super speed but was possessed by the black crystal was whipping the hell out of superman.

My lack of superman logic isnt the subject because who dont read superman comics. It the fact that you all are over powering him. Superman has no way of beating cell or almost any of the enemies that goku have. Majority of goku enemies would laugh at superman and wouldnt even consider him as big as a threat as you all put it.

I would fuss for thor all day long. And I know almost every feat that thor has done and I know all of his power. I also think that thor is >superman but Thor would get crushed by cell also. Completely annihillated.

Cell 10/10

For every feat you listed, theres literally a rediculous feat on the high end of the spectrum (includeing the planet sized beam)

I wish i could find the scan, but it happened.
But seeing how up and down supermans powers oft seem to be
I think in the grand scale of superman, he is an extremely formitable combatnant. Too much for cell? I dont think so.

Rorschach

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
laughing

I not saying Dragonball character can or can not move at light-speeds.

I'm asking from a from the Dragonball manga where it's stated that a character is moving at light speed since carver is asking for a scan where it's stated that Superman can move at light-speed or beyond. To carver, going light-years in a matter of minutes or reaching somewhere faster than light can does not prove Superman is FTL. I'm applying the same to Goku and other Dragonball characters.

And the manga was translated, even scans from the translated versions would do.

So im guessing you cant find a scan of superman going light speed or someone even saying that he is going light speed. I could easily pull up the fight against raditz where it is stated that raditz can move at light speed. Or i could pull up the scan (im still actually looking for it on you tube) where it was stated when goku was fighting tien in the dragonball era. He took off his weighted clothing and it was stated that he could move at the speed of light. After the raditz saga there was no need to bring up them moving above the speed of light because if raditz did then its safe to assume that people that is faaaaaaaaaar superior to him in speed could do it with no problem.

Now, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease show me that scan saying that superman has the ability to move at the speed of light. To my knowledge flash is the fastest earth bound being and it is stated that his top speed is the speed of light anything above that he will open the speed force. If flash is the fastest and going the speed of light opens the speed force then it is safe to say that superman dont go the speed of light unless he is out of the planets atmosphere (in space.).

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
So im guessing you cant find a scan of superman going light speed or someone even saying that he is going light speed. I could easily pull up the fight against raditz where it is stated that raditz can move at light speed. Or i could pull up the scan (im still actually looking for it on you tube) where it was stated when goku was fighting tien in the dragonball era. He took off his weighted clothing and it was stated that he could move at the speed of light. After the raditz saga there was no need to bring up them moving above the speed of light because if raditz did then its safe to assume that people that is faaaaaaaaaar superior to him in speed could do it with no problem.


Raditz moving FTL was a dub error, as was "Goku" saying he could move at the speed of light, but I recall it was Yamcha who said something along those lines, about Goku.

And you don't find scans on youtube. no expression

I'm asking for manga scans. You have read the manga, haven't you?

Priest

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by carver9
So im guessing you cant find a scan of superman going light speed or someone even saying that he is going light speed. I could easily pull up the fight against raditz where it is stated that raditz can move at light speed. Or i could pull up the scan (im still actually looking for it on you tube) where it was stated when goku was fighting tien in the dragonball era. He took off his weighted clothing and it was stated that he could move at the speed of light. After the raditz saga there was no need to bring up them moving above the speed of light because if raditz did then its safe to assume that people that is faaaaaaaaaar superior to him in speed could do it with no problem.



Superman and flash have actually raced before
Believe me, Superman has moved at light speed
the scan is out there and eventually someone will post it
But still, no doubt, cell can keep up with superman

ExtraMision5555
P.S
Most people referr to the cartoon versions of the chars, seeing that the manga was somewhat unattainable when dragonball was popular. I think that people shuold specify Manga version, otherwise it shuold be assumed that the cartoon version is the one theyre going by. I know its a comic book forum, but come on. No one read the manga lol

SeerQris
here you go

http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/races.html

SeerQris
But this is all beside the point of cell winning this battle.

carver9

Rorschach
Originally posted by Priest
But im certain that Goku and Cells punches was rockin the planet..no?

I don't recall that. I'll check it out in a few minutes.

Right now I'm rushing through fight between Gohan and Cell. To see if there was any chance that any of their punches could be felt across the Universe. eek!

carver9
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Superman and flash have actually raced before
Believe me, Superman has moved at light speed
the scan is out there and eventually someone will post it
But still, no doubt, cell can keep up with superman

I guess you havent read the book. It was stated when superman and flash was racing that they were moving at 2000 mps. Flash commented saying "over the years superman has gotten faster". In that race they werent going anywhere near the speed of light. By the way flash rarely goes that fast. Theres no need to when all of his enemies besides zoom has no efficient speed.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
P.S
Most people referr to the cartoon versions of the chars, seeing that the manga was somewhat unattainable when dragonball was popular. I think that people shuold specify Manga version, otherwise it shuold be assumed that the cartoon version is the one theyre going by. I know its a comic book forum, but come on. No one read the manga lol

P.s qris isint that pc supes?

ExtraMision5555
Oh and carver, im not saying superman regulary moves at light speed
Becuase in reality -- he doesnt
but thankyou for correcting me, i wasnt aware of that

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
What are you talking about. I said gladiator flew through a solar system destroying blast. A big difference (not trying to be rude). By the way, no one even register that blast that gladiator flew through. Reed only knew about it because of his equipment. Earth shakes and cities are destroyed when dbz characters are fighting.

Buu and goku had to fight on the ki planet and the entire planet was demolished. When frieza and goku was fighting, besides the blast that frieza hit the planet with, they destroyed everything around them and the planet was shaking because of there power.

You cant provide a scan where it say that superman was moving at that kind of speed because there isnt one. I do know for a fact that he can move that fast in space, along with nova, rogue has done it, terrax, thor, etc... but this is all in space where there is free gravity to move that fast.

You once said Gladiator flew through a Universe destroying blast, it was just you exaggerating the solar system destroying blast.

The Kai's planet was heavily damaged by the battle between Kid Buu and Goku/Vegeta, but it was still intact.

But this really doesn't have anything to do what I'm asking you for. And that is, scans stating Dragonball characters can move at light-speed or faster.

I'm not saying they can or can't. I just want some actual evidence from you for once.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
I guess you havent read the book. It was stated when superman and flash was racing that they were moving at 2000 mps. Flash commented saying "over the years superman has gotten faster". In that race they werent going anywhere near the speed of light. By the way flash rarely goes that fast. Theres no need to when all of his enemies besides zoom has no efficient speed.

They were moving at OVER 2000MPs. Later on Flash accelerated to lose Superman but Superman was still able to keep up.

I should probably upload those scans to the Superman Respect Thread.

Rorschach
Originally posted by Priest
But im certain that Goku and Cells punches was rockin the planet..no?

I just rushing through the Goku Vs Cell fight. They weren't shaking the planet, but Cell did cause a Earthquake to some city when he was powering up for the final attack he used against Gohan.

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
They were moving at OVER 2000MPs. Later on Flash accelerated to lose Superman but Superman was still able to keep up.

I should probably upload those scans to the Superman Respect Thread.

You havent read it. Please show me the scans because i OWN the book and it clearly says that they were moving that fast, 2000 mps. They went no where near the speed of light. Flash rarely moves that fast. Rarely. You do know when they go the speed of light thats when the speed force is entered right. You do know that flash had to lend superman his speed when raal created a beam that was stated to go as fast as the speed of light because superman stated himself that he couldnt move that fast. This was when raal wife was trapped on a space ship and the justice league was held captive by the alien race.

Im not going by the manga because it wasnt a long time comic because it wasnt as famous as the cartoon. In the anime it has been stated numerous of times that they can go the speed of light. Whereas it has NEVER been stated or established in comics that superman can do so. You all just seem to use caculations. I want to see it say that. Would you like for me to show you that lovely scan again of it saying that gladiator was moving 100 times the speed of light. Thats the same thing I would like for you to post.

SeerQris

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
You havent read it. Please show me the scans because i OWN the book and it clearly says that they were moving that fast, 2000 mps.

Moving at OVER 2000 Miles Per Second

http://i83.imagethrust.com/t/1280097/flashv2209p011.jpg

And the Dragonball manga was out before the anime. The anime is an adaptation of the manga, and the manga is seen as the cannon source. Raditz moving FTL is a dub error, later in the US Dub, Goku tells Future Trunks that IT only moves at the speed of light. So if you want to go by the US Dub, Raditz is the fastest Z fighter as Cell himself said he was slower than IT and IT was generally seen as the quickest way to get anywhere.

Superboy Prime
So you guys say Cell would be dead in the sun?

Am I the only one that remembers Superman's heat vision can output more heat than a star?

SeerQris
I and many others take the anime to be cannon. In fact it has been stated in another post by a mod that there should be a disclaimer before these battles, that states if the battle is using a character from the manga or the show. So which is it?

SeerQris
I really don't think Cell would be transfered to the sun in the first place btw. If he can IT it should be no problem to escape.

Takion
I believe Surfer can defeat any DBZ character, why? Doesn't he have energy manipulation?

2nd, WTH is Cell goingt o do to Superman? Supes just uses his heat vision.

3rd, theses threads should be stopped.

SeerQris
Originally posted by Takion
I believe Surfer can defeat any DBZ character, why? Doesn't he have energy manipulation?

2nd, WTH is Cell goingt o do to Superman? Supes just uses his heat vision.

3rd, theses threads should be stopped.

So is there no escaping the heat vision? Is it impossible for Cell to Instant Transmission away from the blast?

If not how come?

I'm not trying to say that Supes cannot use this against him. I am just trying to be fair to the battle.

Takion
Originally posted by SeerQris
So is there no escaping the heat vision? Is it impossible for Cell to Instant Transmission away from the blast?

If not how come?

I'm not trying to say that Supes cannot use this against him. I am just trying to be fair to the battle.
If I remember correctly, does the heat vision not travel about twice the speed of light?

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
Moving at OVER 2000 Miles Per Second

http://i83.imagethrust.com/t/1280097/flashv2209p011.jpg

And the Dragonball manga was out before the anime. The anime is an adaptation of the manga, and the manga is seen as the cannon source. Raditz moving FTL is a dub error, later in the US Dub, Goku tells Future Trunks that IT only moves at the speed of light. So if you want to go by the US Dub, Raditz is the fastest Z fighter as Cell himself said he was slower than IT and IT was generally seen as the quickest way to get anywhere.

Ok, 1st thing that i would like to say is that, during that race that was almost the end of it and superman or flash was going any where close to the speed that you presume that superman can go and flash kicked it up a knotch and left superman (flash still didnt go the speed of light).

2nd; I know that the comic came out 1st but I dont go by it because the anime provided more and did more. The anime should be where the info came from.

3rd; you do know that when goku did the instant tran in front of vegita that he was impressed at all. The instant transmission is a good way of combatting because you can appear from any direction while fighting an opponent and thats all goku had to do was sense a energy and just teleport to it reserving all of his energy instead of flying, using energy.

Another thing was during the cell fight goku was using instant transmission the entire time but cell kept up. Raditz can move at the speed of light and since raditz could do it then goku should move way above that. Goku just has a cheat power. Not only does he have super speed but he also has the ability to teleport.

Takion
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, 1st thing that i would like to say is that, during that race that was almost the end of it and superman or flash was going any where close to the speed that you presume that superman can go and flash kicked it up a knotch and left superman (flash still didnt go the speed of light).

2nd; I know that the comic came out 1st but I dont go by it because the anime provided more and did more. The anime should be where the info came from.

3rd; you do know that when goku did the instant tran in front of vegita that he was impressed at all. The instant transmission is a good way of combatting because you can appear from any direction while fighting an opponent and thats all goku had to do was sense a energy and just teleport to it reserving all of his energy instead of flying, using energy.

Another thing was during the cell fight goku was using instant transmission the entire time but cell kept up. Raditz can move at the speed of light and since raditz could do it then goku should move way above that. Goku just has a cheat power. Not only does he have super speed but he also has the ability to teleport.
How could Raditz move at the speed of light?

carver9
Originally posted by Takion
I believe Surfer can defeat any DBZ character, why? Doesn't he have energy manipulation?

2nd, WTH is Cell goingt o do to Superman? Supes just uses his heat vision.

3rd, theses threads should be stopped.

Well your beliefs are wrong. If hulk can stop the surfer than any dragonball z should be a major threat to him.

SeerQris
Originally posted by Takion
If I remember correctly, does the heat vision not travel about twice the speed of light?

If so you have a point, but I am skeptical of Cell being rendered incapable of moving out of the way with an IT. Plus, cell can sense it before it even comes(energy signature sense same thing that allows the dbz universe to dodge insanely), he will never be surprised by it, which should allow him to prep to get out of the way.

carver9
Originally posted by Takion
How could Raditz move at the speed of light?

When raditz dodge a blast from picollo coming at him at the speed of light. Thats how. If i threw a punch at you at the speed of light, do you think that you can dodge it. Now if you had speed that was more than the speed of light and i through a punch at you coming at the speed of light, can you dodge it.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, 1st thing that i would like to say is that, during that race that was almost the end of it and superman or flash was going any where close to the speed that you presume that superman can go and flash kicked it up a knotch and left superman (flash still didnt go the speed of light).

2nd; I know that the comic came out 1st but I dont go by it because the anime provided more and did more. The anime should be where the info came from.

3rd; you do know that when goku did the instant tran in front of vegita that he was impressed at all. The instant transmission is a good way of combatting because you can appear from any direction while fighting an opponent and thats all goku had to do was sense a energy and just teleport to it reserving all of his energy instead of flying, using energy.

Another thing was during the cell fight goku was using instant transmission the entire time but cell kept up. Raditz can move at the speed of light and since raditz could do it then goku should move way above that. Goku just has a cheat power. Not only does he have super speed but he also has the ability to teleport.

That was near the start of the race, not the end. In the following pages you could see that Superman and Flash had been all over the planet, like France or Paris. If forget which.

Goku only used IT twice in his fight against Cell. The first time he used it to deflect Cell's planet destroying attack, then Cell said he wasn't as fast as IT but was fast enough to beat Goku's ass. Then Goku used it to take Cell by surprise with Kamehameha.

Cell admitted he was slower than IT, Goku told Trunks that IT only moves at the speed of light. Radtiz is faster than light.

So if you choose to go by the US dub, Raditz is faster than Cell.

Rorschach
Originally posted by Takion
How could Raditz move at the speed of light?

He can't, it was a dub error.

Goku after King Kai's training took hours to get back to Earth. If he was even half as fast as the speed of light he would have crossed Serpent Road in a matter of seconds. Also, in the US Dub, Snake Way is much shorter than in the manga.

carver9
Originally posted by Takion
If I remember correctly, does the heat vision not travel about twice the speed of light?

With cell moving this fast, you dont think that he could easily dodge ANYTHING that superman could think of doing. Also in this clip your going to see goku fly down to earth in the form of light. Hes going to completely turn into light.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uum0-bOqEs4

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
That was near the start of the race, not the end. In the following pages you could see that Superman and Flash had been all over the planet, like France or Paris. If forget which.

Goku only used IT twice in his fight against Cell. The first time he used it to deflect Cell's planet destroying attack, then Cell said he wasn't as fast as IT but was fast enough to beat Goku's ass. Then Goku used it to take Cell by surprise with Kamehameha.

Cell admitted he was slower than IT, Goku told Trunks that IT only moves at the speed of light. Radtiz is faster than light.

So if you choose to go by the US dub, Raditz is faster than Cell.

laughing

Now youre lying. Cell never said no such thing. Im going to post the entire fight. Show me where it says that. I would like to ask, do you think going the speed of 2000 mps is slow. Answer this for me. Lets say if i was living in georgia and i wanted to go to new york and i had the speed to go 2000 mps how long do you think it would take for me to get there.

By the way i posted the beginning of the cell fight against goku. Heres the rest. Show me where it say about the IT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdStqccxi2Y&mode=related&search=

Rorschach

carver9
Here goes the last of the fight. Now with these scans that im showing you all, you should really think about your answer. We all know that superman cant fight this fast. We all know that superman have ever fought anyone that has ever displayed any kind of power or martial arts or fighting techniques that the dragonball z characters has displayed. Just look at the way they are fighting. Its impossible for superman to win. Superman dont have any kind of defense against an assault like this.

I just can think of a reason why you all are voting for him. Especially against a character like cell. Heres the rest of the fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNgkPhy00jw&mode=related&search=

SeerQris

carver9

SeerQris
Also there is all this talk about Raditz and special beam cannon. I have watched the vid of Picolo blowing up the moon it takes about 2 seconds for his beam cannon to reach the moon. It takes light 1.2 seconds to go from the moon to earth. So i'd say the beam cannon was travling at at least half if not just a little more than half the speed of light. And raditz a low level enemy easily dodged.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
It didnt take hours, it took minutes but he was still lacking the speed of light since it did take minutes. Now the answer to that question was because he was trying to conserve energy, thats why he got on flying nimbus to take him to the battle. He knew that he would need all of his energy during that battle.

Just face the fact and look at that entire battle again, maybe you be able to see why people dont think that superman stands a chance.

It took him hours to get back to Earth, not minutes. Vegeta and Nappa waited for hours for Goku to get back before they started fighting. Goku was trying to get to Earth as soon as he could, he even asked for a Senzu bean after he reached Kami's Tower.

Rorschach

carver9
Originally posted by SeerQris
You ask some great questions but these are plot elements. Im sure we can see Superman doing this sub light speeds all the time. We are talking high end feats here not low end. Why doesnt Dr STrange do certain things when he is so power etc... its all plot.

No, he asked a good question which had a reason behind it. If he seen any dbz fights he would know that goku or cell would destroy superman. Answer this question for me. Ok dragonballz made a manga comic about dragonball z and what capabilities they thought that dragonball z characters could do (including speed, strength, overrall power). So the anime is basically based off of the manga and they made it into a cartoon so we can see lively of the characters capabilities.

Now, dc did the same thing with the justice league. They made a cartoon based off the perseption of what the characters capabilities are. The cartoon gave superman super speed, super strength, etc... like his counter part.

So since they based both cartoons off the comics and we have yet see superman use any kind of combat speed but have seen flash fight fast (not like dragonball z characters) like his comic counter part. Then that should tell you something.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
Here goes the last of the fight. Now with these scans that im showing you all, you should really think about your answer. We all know that superman cant fight this fast. We all know that superman have ever fought anyone that has ever displayed any kind of power or martial arts or fighting techniques that the dragonball z characters has displayed. Just look at the way they are fighting. Its impossible for superman to win. Superman dont have any kind of defense against an assault like this.

I just can think of a reason why you all are voting for him. Especially against a character like cell. Heres the rest of the fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNgkPhy00jw&mode=related&search=

The speeds their fighting at is never stated.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
No, he asked a good question which had a reason behind it. If he seen any dbz fights he would know that goku or cell would destroy superman. Answer this question for me. Ok dragonballz made a manga comic about dragonball z and what capabilities they thought that dragonball z characters could do (including speed, strength, overrall power). So the anime is basically based off of the manga and they made it into a cartoon so we can see lively of the characters capabilities.

The anime is not cannon, it contradicts events in the manga. The thread creator has to specify whether we're using the anime or manga version.

Originally posted by carver9
Now, dc did the same thing with the justice league. They made a cartoon based off the perseption of what the characters capabilities are. The cartoon gave superman super speed, super strength, etc... like his counter part.

So since they based both cartoons off the comics and we have yet see superman use any kind of combat speed but have seen flash fight fast (not like dragonball z characters) like his comic counter part. Then that should tell you something.

JLU Superman is much weaker than Comic Superman. You can tell by comparing the feats they've accomplished.

SeerQris
Originally posted by Rorschach
The speeds their fighting at is never stated.

Very true. But now you're getting too nit picky. Let your eyes speak, you know very well in your soul that they are moving at light speeds. Invisible, thunderbolt down.... it's just unfortunate that there isnt a speedomerter on the side of the screen to confirm what your eyes are telling you.

Rorschach
Originally posted by SeerQris
Very true. But now your getting too nit picky. Let your eyes speak, you know very well in your soul that they are moving at light speeds. Invisible, thunderbolt down.... it's just unfortunate that there isnt a speedomerter on the side of the screen to confirm what your eyes are telling you.

Thor has moved so fast he has become invisible. He wasn't moving at light-speed.

Superman moved so fast that he became invisible. Said he was only going at Mach 3.

How do thunderbolts indicate that someone is moving at light-speed?

SeerQris
Originally posted by Rorschach
The anime is not cannon, it contradicts events in the manga. The thread creator has to specify whether we're using the anime or manga version.



JLU Superman is much weaker than Comic Superman. You can tell by comparing the feats they've accomplished.


For the sake of our current debate let us stick to the anime world as that is what most of us are familiar with. None of us wants to go out to Borders and buy all the volumes at 10 dollars a book. This is fair you know both anime and manga most of us are only down with the show.




I will buy however the dub arguments as they show an attempt by america to change what was said in the original japanese show.

carver9

SeerQris
thunder moves at 297600000 m/s

Speed of light is 300000000 m/s roughly

So thats pretty close if you ask me. I'm not gonna use that scene as proof because as you stated the show never says. But its absolutely convincing.

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
Thor has moved so fast he has become invisible. He wasn't moving at light-speed.

Superman moved so fast that he became invisible. Said he was only going at Mach 3.

How do thunderbolts indicate that someone is moving at light-speed?

You just dont get it do you. Look at that fight. Do you really think that superman can deal with anything like that. Look at what they are doing. Have you ever seen superman fight like that or even close to that. It has NEVER happened. They would thrash superman. Superman cannot keep up with that.

You cant be looking at it or you got to be stubborn (not trying to be mean). Superman has a hard time with hulk, metallo (when he isnt using his krptonite), Darkseid beat the hell out of him (have never displayed any speed), Lobo mud stomps him, solomon grundy, I can keep going and you think that goku wont crush him. Thats funny. Now dont say that they beat up superman to make a comic interesting, if that so, show me a brick even landing a lick on goku. You cant.

Superman has no kind of combat speed and he would get crushed.

SeerQris
Originally posted by Rorschach
Thor has moved so fast he has become invisible. He wasn't moving at light-speed.

Superman moved so fast that he became invisible. Said he was only going at Mach 3.

How do thunderbolts indicate that someone is moving at light-speed?


Mach 3 is visible to the human eye. As for Thor's invisibility and Supermans where is this stuff. Not trying to say you're lying I am just interested so that I can make my own judgement on it.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
Well i would like to use something against you. If superman can move faster than the speed of light, why when he just got through saving krypto from a imperex probe and he heard wonder woman screaming in pain why didnt he make it there in time to prevent the imperex probe from killing wonderwoman mother. Why when he flew off and by the time he got there wonder woman mother was dead.

He was fighting a Imperix Probe himself at the time. And he didn't fly to Wonder Woman's mother. Her body body crash landed near him after he had finished destroying a probe.

Originally posted by carver9
Answer this for me during the same saga why when louis was calling for clark to come and help her before her father died by the imperex probe. Since superman moves at the speed of light, why didnt he get there in time to prevent this from happening. Why did louis father ended up dying anyway.

He was with Wonder Woman and her mother at the time, he had forgotten about Lois calling for help for that short moment. As soon as he remembered he flew to Lois but that was AFTER Major Lane had already destroyed the Probe.

Originally posted by carver9
Answer this also, since superman moves at the speed of light. Why in the superman for tomorrow book, why when equus was about to kill a hand full of soldiers and superman was flying trying to stop the bullets from killing the soldiers why did superman say this "six hundred seventy-two miles per hour. "Thats the speed of a bullet fired from an m-60. "Its been said that im faster than a speeding bullet. "And i am. But sometimes being faster than a speeding bullet is not fast enough." and the soldiers end up getting killed. He couldnt even reach the bullets in time before they killed the soldier. Doesnt seem like the speed of light to me.

Because For Tomorrow was written by the same guy that said Superman could fly past Galaxies at the speed of sound and had Superman saving Kyle's ass.

carver9
by the way you keep bringing up people turning invisible, etc... once. Have you seen them repeatly do it in battle like dragonball z characters, like continuously winking out punching each other.

SeerQris
We must factor in all the people that dont move at light speeds that have "laid hands" on superman. It's only fair.


Also what about fighting ability. As far as I am concered in fighting skill this battle is like watchign a highly trained monk against an average brawler. Don't tell me that Superman is noted for his h2h, I won't buy it without hard evidence.

Rorschach
Originally posted by SeerQris
Mach 3 is visible to the human eye. As for Thor's invisibility and Supermans where is this stuff. Not trying to say you're lying I am just interested so that I can make my own judgement on it.

Look through their respect threads.

The Thor instance was when he was running down a Volcano, and Superman moved faster than the eye could see after Lois accidently revealed to the Daily Planet that Clark was wearing a Superman outfit underneath. He moved faster than the eye could see and made a Batman symbol on someone else's T-Shirt and returned to where he was previously.

Rorschach

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
He was fighting a Imperix Probe himself at the time. And he didn't fly to Wonder Woman's mother. Her boy body crash landed near him after he had finished destroying a probe.



He was with Wonder Woman and her mother at the time, he had forgotten about Lois calling for help for that short moment. As soon as he remembered he flew to Lois but that was AFTER Major Lane had already destroyed the Probe.



Because For Tomorrow was written by the same guy that said Superman could fly past Galaxies at the speed of sound and had Superman saving Kyle's ass.

laughing

Excuses for superman. He just didnt have the speed to catch the bullets. Lets just say it like that instead of making assumptions.

Answer this for me then. Why when raal wife was capture by some aliens and raal created a device that shot a beam of light and he wanted to use it to destroy the mother ship. He was worried because he knew that if he shot the beam he would kill his wife because she was on the ship so he ask superman to get his wife off the ship before the beam hit. Raal told superman that the beam goes faster than the speed of light. Why did superman say that he dont have the speed to keep up with the beam and raal said that he knew thats why you would need the flash speed. and flash had to lend superman his speed in order to catch the beam of light.

Answer that for me.

carver9

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
laughing

Excuses for superman. He just didnt have the speed to catch the bullets. Lets just say it like that instead of making assumptions.

He's caught multiple bullets before.

Originally posted by carver9
Answer this for me then. Why when raal wife was capture by some aliens and raal created a device that shot a beam of light and he wanted to use it to destroy the mother ship. He was worried because he knew that if he shot the beam he would kill his wife because she was on the ship so he ask superman to get his wife off the ship before the beam hit. Raal told superman that the beam goes faster than the speed of light. Why did superman say that he dont have the speed to keep up with the beam and raal said that he knew thats why you would need the flash speed. and flash had to lend superman his speed in order to catch the beam of light.

Answer that for me.

Because that was 9 years ago. Sometimes characters get stronger as time progresses.

SeerQris
Originally posted by Rorschach
Look through their respect threads.

The Thor instance was when he was running down a Volcano, and Superman moved faster than the eye could see after Lois accidently revealed to the Daily Planet that Clark was wearing a Superman outfit underneath. He moved faster than the eye could see and made a Batman symbol on someone else's T-Shirt and returned to where he was previously.

Thats great and all for supes but i dont see him as carver says winking in and out. It really isnt about the human eye being unable to detect the movement. It is more of the raw fact that they are INVISIBLE just flat out winking in and out of everyones existance. As if teleporting.

For every high end feat supes has some ver low ones that seem to contradict his high end feats. I am not gonna dwell on those I am just saying that is should be factored into this battle.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
I dont care how fast goku and cell are fight. I want you to show me a scan of superman fight like that period. Winking in and out of battle, doing efficient moves, while doing so. I dont want to see superman use speed and one punch someone and thats the end of him moving like that. I want to see continuous speed display like a dragonball character.

It's kind of hard to show someone winking in and out of battle in a comic book. Since it's not animated. no expression

Originally posted by carver9
Do me a favor, show me any character from marvel or dc doing that. That should be much easier for you. I bet you cant find one. Show me a character from either punching someone from the sky to the ground but before the person hit the ground the person that punched them are already at the ground preparing himself for another attack.

Using examples like that, I could say that JLU Superman is faster than Comic Superman since he punched Darkseid through some buildings and then appeared behind him. But that would be bullshitting.

Guys like Superman don't just punch or get punched a small distance into the air. They end up sending people out of orbit.

E.G: Superman punching Wonder Woman from the Sun to Earth, Superman punching Lobo out of orbit, Strange Visitor hitting Superman out of orbit, that dude with the axe hitting Superman out of
orbit, etc.

SeerQris
Carver you have presnted alot of cold hard facts and evidence. You have my vote. I am going to have to give you a QFT

Rorschach
Originally posted by SeerQris
Thats great and all for supes but i dont see him as carver says winking in and out. It really isnt about the human eye being unable to detect the movement. It is more of the raw fact that they are INVISIBLE just flat out winking in and out of everyones existance. As if teleporting.

For every high end feat supes has some ver low ones that seem to contradict his high end feats. I am not gonna dwell on those I am just saying that is should be factored into this battle.

Most of those low-end feats took place during Bryne's run. Superman has gotten much stronger since he returned after DOS.

ExtraMision5555
Carver9, that was a brilliant post.
Honestly, how can you deny such cold facts?
How can you neglect supermans "slow" speed feats?
You know, in your heart that every single z warrior is capable of keep up in combat with Supeman. Hes simply not faster than them in combat. Im not even going to take the cheesy route and finalize supermans speed as the ones in his less impressive showings, especially when you take into account how common they are. Its not farfetched to say that superman can keep up with fast fighters, such as z warriors. But at the same time, he is simply, not faster.

SeerQris
Good point here.

We are takling strictly about the anime and not using the manga as a refrence though is my response to that.

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
He's caught multiple bullets before.



Because that was 9 years ago. Sometimes characters get stronger as time progresses.

Im not referring to him catching bullet, hell wolverine even caught bullets. Im saying that he didnt have the speed to stop the bullets from killing others. If he had light speed, he could have flown around the world 4 times and still had plenty of time to stop the bullets BUT he was right there and didnt even catch one bullet.

I dont know why that was brought up anyway, my bad. I just want you to know that superman dont have any defense against any dragonball z character. He has no way of hitting them. They would look at his blitz as weak and might not even get hit by it and portray him as just a brick with no combat speed or experience like them.

Example, if quicksilver and doomsday was to have a running race, doomsday would lose but when it comes to combat speed, he got quicksilver by a long shot.

SeerQris
dinner time brb

llagrok

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
Im not referring to him catching bullet, hell wolverine even caught bullets. Im saying that he didnt have the speed to stop the bullets from killing others. If he had light speed, he could have flown around the world 4 times and still had plenty of time to stop the bullets BUT he was right there and didnt even catch one bullet.

If he had flown at light-speed he would have killed them anyway because of the speed he was traveling at. He said so himself that he avoids flying at supersonic speeds in populated areas, that was when he was flying to save Lois and Jimmy on a boat.

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
It's kind of hard to show someone winking in and out of battle in a comic book. Since it's not animated. no expression



Using examples like that, I could say that JLU Superman is faster than Comic Superman since he punched Darkseid through some buildings and then appeared behind him. But that would be bullshitting.

Guys like Superman don't just punch or get punched a small distance into the air. They end up sending people out of orbit.

E.G: Superman punching Wonder Woman from the Sun to Earth, Superman punching Lobo out of orbit, Strange Visitor hitting Superman out of orbit, that dude with the axe hitting Superman out of
orbit, etc.

Very, very bad exuse. Ok since you say superman is punching people out of orbit (which is total bs because that simply saying that every time superman has ever hit someone in comics that they end up in space, never happened but a hand full of times.) I know you hate using dragonball gt, I do to but when goku was fight the android as a super saiyan, android 17. The android kneed goku in space and met him up there and hit him back to the ground, before goku even acknowledged the hit.

Thats how they have been fight since the beginning of dragonball, no matter how far they hit there opponents. Goku and master roshi did a entire fight sean that could have lasted about 30 minutes with a regular human but they did it in a millisecond and displayed what they did in slow motion to the audience because the audience didnt see any of it. Frieza and goku made 10 episodes out of a 2 minute fight. How fast do you think that they had to be going.

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
If he had flown at light-speed he would have killed them anyway because of the speed he was traveling at. He said so himself that he avoids flying at supersonic speeds in populated areas, that was when he was flying to save Lois and Jimmy on a boat.

(i love that comic that you just brought up with loius and Jimmy, back to the topic.)

So you think that he would just have let the soldiers die instead of increasing his speed enough to save them.

Creshosk
Originally posted by carver9
Im not referring to him catching bullet, hell wolverine even caught bullets. Im saying that he didnt have the speed to stop the bullets from killing others. If he had light speed, he could have flown around the world 4 times and still had plenty of time to stop the bullets BUT he was right there and didnt even catch one bullet. Carver.. do you know anything about Superman?

No seriously. You keep spouting off things that just aren't true.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/7786/08222005050314pm5fl.jpg

carver9

ExtraMision5555

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
Very, very bad exuse. Ok since you say superman is punching people out of orbit (which is total bs because that simply saying that every time superman has ever hit someone in comics that they end up in space, never happened but a hand full of times.)

It's happened several times. I forgot to mention the time that Etrigan punched Superman to the moon.

Originally posted by carver9
I know you hate using dragonball gt, I do to but when goku was fight the android as a super saiyan, android 17. The android kneed goku in space and met him up there and hit him back to the ground, before goku even acknowledged the hit.

GT in non-cannon. If you really want to use GT then let me bring up the fact that Goku or Gogeta, not sure who, has trouble lifting a building. Super 17 was also stronger than Goku, Goku beat him by getting lucky. Even Goku said something about the original 17 helping Goku find Super 17's weakness.

Originally posted by carver9
Thats how they have been fight since the beginning of dragonball, no matter how far they hit there opponents. Goku and master roshi did a entire fight sean that could have lasted about 30 minutes with a regular human but they did it in a millisecond and displayed what they did in slow motion to the audience because the audience didnt see any of it. Frieza and goku made 10 episodes out of a 2 minute fight. How fast do you think that they had to be going.

I recall that it was Kurrin and Roshi, not Goku and Roshi. It also only lasted for 1 second but didn't seem like it was going on for 30 minutes.

Frieza and goku had 5 minutes left after Frieza hit the core of the planet. And even then Dende had time to ask the dragon for a wish and to have everyone teleport to Earth, and in the anime Vegeta actually talked to Goku after he had gone SSJ.

SeerQris
I will never buy the Anime style just cuz its anime argument. Dont compare other animes to DBZ, they are not rulers and measurements for dbz.

ExtraMision5555
Again, let me be clear, i am not denying supermans ability to move very fast.

I am simply stateing, its no where close to being out of the range of a z warriors combat speed. Not today, not ever.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
(i love that comic that you just brought up with loius and Jimmy, back to the topic.)

So you think that he would just have let the soldiers die instead of increasing his speed enough to save them.

A sonic boom would have killed them.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Rorschach


GT in non-cannon. If you really want to use GT then let me bring up the fact that Goku or Gogeta, not sure who, has trouble lifting a building. Super 17 was also stronger than Goku, Goku beat him by getting lucky. Even Goku said something about the original 17 helping Goku find Super 17's weakness.




Without delveing too deeply into this topic, let me say this
Relative to the cartoon, no one can difinitively say that GT is non-cannon. Akira has never said it, and writers change all the time. Superman isint cannon going by that logic.

Conversely, their is nothing to imply that GT is non cannon. It simply has a different staff -- very common in comic books, as well as cartoons.

Creshosk
Originally posted by carver9
(i love that comic that you just brought up with loius and Jimmy, back to the topic.)

So you think that he would just have let the soldiers die instead of increasing his speed enough to save them.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9101/0869a916yt.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/704/08222005052719pm2ys.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8281/08222005052832pm2wo.jpg

He managed to plug Lois's ears with cotton as he was flying through to protect her from the sonic boom and grab the rifle to reduce it to the size of a bullet.

"I could see Jimmy hit the signal just before the shot."

So he snagged the shot that was fired as well.

carver9
Originally posted by Creshosk
Carver.. do you know anything about Superman?

No seriously. You keep spouting off things that just aren't true.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/7786/08222005050314pm5fl.jpg

omg, I know that superman can stop bullets BUT these bullets wasnt coming at him he had to use his speed and stop some bullet from hitting some soldiers. I know that superman has speed to hit bullets out of the air, thats not the argument, he didnt have enough speed to fly across some land that was about a mile away and stop some bullets from hitting some soldiers. Big difference.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9101/0869a916yt.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/704/08222005052719pm2ys.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8281/08222005052832pm2wo.jpg

He managed to plug Lois's ears with cotton as he was flying through to protect her from the sonic boom and grab the rifle to reduce it to the size of a bullet.

"I could see Jimmy hit the signal just before the shot."

So he snagged the shot that was fired as well. From the bottom of the page.

carver9
Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9101/0869a916yt.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/704/08222005052719pm2ys.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8281/08222005052832pm2wo.jpg

He managed to plug Lois's ears with cotton as he was flying through to protect her from the sonic boom and grab the rifle to reduce it to the size of a bullet.

"I could see Jimmy hit the signal just before the shot."

So he snagged the shot that was fired as well.

Nice scans if it was combat speed. You do know that quicksilver was across the world (in genosha) and magneto wanted him to leave a letter at professor door and magneto sat the letter on the table and was poring himself some coffee and quicksilver grabbed the letter, ran and knocked at the professor door, dropped the letter at the door and ran back to genosha. But the amazing thing about this was that he made it back before magneto got through poring his coffee. Which one is more amazing to you.

With all that said, quicksilver would still get thrashed by goku.

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
It's happened several times. I forgot to mention the time that Etrigan punched Superman to the moon.



GT in non-cannon. If you really want to use GT then let me bring up the fact that Goku or Gogeta, not sure who, has trouble lifting a building. Super 17 was also stronger than Goku, Goku beat him by getting lucky. Even Goku said something about the original 17 helping Goku find Super 17's weakness.



I recall that it was Kurrin and Roshi, not Goku and Roshi. It also only lasted for 1 second but didn't seem like it was going on for 30 minutes.

Frieza and goku had 5 minutes left after Frieza hit the core of the planet. And even then Dende had time to ask the dragon for a wish and to have everyone teleport to Earth, and in the anime Vegeta actually talked to Goku after he had gone SSJ.

You were right about the krillin and roshi fight. Frieza and goku, WRONG, they had two minutes and they did an entire 10 episode battle within that time period.

Creshosk
Originally posted by carver9
Nice scans if it was combat speed. Oh yes, because plugging someone's ears with cotton catching an attack and disarming a person couldn't in any way shape or form translate into combat. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that quicksilver was across the world (in genosha) and magneto wanted him to leave a letter at professor door and magneto sat the letter on the table and was poring himself some coffee and quicksilver grabbed the letter, ran and knocked at the professor door, dropped the letter at the door and ran back to genosha. But the amazing thing about this was that he made it back before magneto got through poring his coffee. Which one is more amazing to you.

With all that said, quicksilver would still get thrashed by goku. Gee, I guess that takes Goku's speed down to quicksilver's level doesn't it?

You really want to get into that whole debacle in the other thread here?

Wanna provide some proof of Cell doing anything like Superman or quicksilver did?

Oh wow, he went a few feet and waited. That's impressive. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Better feats of speed please.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
You were right about the krillin and roshi fight. Frieza and goku, WRONG, they had two minutes and they did an entire 10 episode battle within that time period.

Frieza said it was 5 minutes. But that seems hihgly unlikely since before the planet blew up, All the Namek were resurrected, Vegeta talked to SSJ Goku, Dende wished for everyone on Namek except for Goku and Frieza to be telported to Earth. The main reason the fight dragged on for so long was because of all the standing around and screaming.

Rorschach
Hey carver.

Can the Specter defeat Goku?

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by carver9
Nice scans if it was combat speed. You do know that quicksilver was across the world (in genosha) and magneto wanted him to leave a letter at professor door and magneto sat the letter on the table and was poring himself some coffee and quicksilver grabbed the letter, ran and knocked at the professor door, dropped the letter at the door and ran back to genosha. But the amazing thing about this was that he made it back before magneto got through poring his coffee. Which one is more amazing to you.

With all that said, quicksilver would still get thrashed by goku.
Carver
you are brilliant.
You are on fire.

carver9
I want you to look at these speed feats and tell me if you think that superman could do the same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IqmPj0L31Y

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
Hey carver.

Can the Specter defeat Goku?

Yes; he would destroy goku. No comment on that one. Spectre dont have to physically fight you.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by carver9
Yes; he would destroy goku. No comment on that one. Spectre dont have to physically fight you.
(this is not directed at you)
No one here even took it their either. None of us ever stated that goku could beat a celestial being.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
I want you to look at these speed feats and tell me if you think that superman could do the same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IqmPj0L31Y

It depends.

What speed were they fighting at? I guess you can't really tell since it wasn't stated. no expression

I might as well say that Enishi and Sōjirō are faster than Superman. They too disappear and reappear at blinding speeds!

carver9
Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh yes, because plugging someone's ears with cotton catching an attack and disarming a person couldn't in any way shape or form translate into combat. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Gee, I guess that takes Goku's speed down to quicksilver's level doesn't it?

You really want to get into that whole debacle in the other thread here?

Wanna provide some proof of Cell doing anything like Superman or quicksilver did?

Oh wow, he went a few feet and waited. That's impressive. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Better feats of speed please.

Flight speed, naah cant prove any because they really didnt need a reason for flight speed in dragonball z. Combat speed. Have plenty of that. Never had a reason to fly super fast.

Lifting strength. Naah dont really have much of that either since they never had a reason to lift anything or throw anything at there opponents due to it be none effective. BUT i can tell by there punches that they had super human strength. And i can tell with them lifting weights in 100 times and 500 times earth gravity that they were super strong.

Creshosk
Originally posted by carver9
I want you to look at these speed feats and tell me if you think that superman could do the same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IqmPj0L31Y Was that supposed to be impressive? That was a lame music video.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Rorschach
It depends.

What speed were they fighting at? I guess you can't really tell since it wasn't stated. no expression

I might as well say that Enishi and Sōjirō are faster than Superman. They too disappear and reappear at blinding speeds!

Again, use this same argument against superman -- or anyone in comics. How hard did superman punch "x" to send him into low orbit? Its not stated, but we know he did it. You cannot deny gokus raw speed simply becaues there was no teleprompter to give you a live update. Evidence that does no exist in entertainment mediums.

carver9
Originally posted by Rorschach
It depends.

What speed were they fighting at? I guess you can't really tell since it wasn't stated. no expression

I might as well say that Enishi and Sōjirō are faster than Superman. They too disappear and reappear at blinding speeds!

They do disappear and reappear but i have never seen blast go directly through them. I have never seen them stand there while fists are going through there body like they were a ghost. I have never seen them dodge a 1000 punches coming at them like it was nothing.

Thats the difference.

Rorschach
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Again, use this same argument against superman -- or anyone in comics. How hard did superman punch "x" to send him into low orbit? Its not stated, but we know he did it. You cannot deny gokus raw speed simply becaues there was no teleprompter to give you a live update. Evidence that does no exist in entertainment mediums.

I know Superman punched someone out of orbit because that character said he was out of orbit and you could clearly see that the character was off the planet. He hit the character hard enough to send out of orbit, and that's pretty strong punch.

I know Goku is fast, it's just not stated how fast he's moving in that video.

Rorschach
Originally posted by carver9
They do disappear and reappear but i have never seen blast go directly through them. I have never seen them stand there while fists are going through there body like they were a ghost. I have never seen them dodge a 1000 punches coming at them like it was nothing.

Thats the difference.

1000 punches?

Where did that number come from?

And Doomsday's lightning, fire, attacks just passed through Superman. Though some say that's because he was using super-speed to turn intangible.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Rorschach
I know Superman punched someone out of orbit because that character said he was out of orbit and you could clearly see that the character was off the planet. He hit the character hard enough to send out of orbit, and that's pretty strong punch.

I know Goku is fast, it's just not stated how fast he's moving in that video.

Essentally my point
You can clearly see he is out of orbit
you know he was strong enough to punch him out of orbit. But how strong was the punch? He didnt state the exact PSI. Obviously, asking for that is rediculous
In the same token that asking for an exact number on how fast goku is going when he zips accross like lightning is equally rediculous.

Creshosk
Originally posted by carver9
Flight speed,Oh I'm sorry you just commited the Sham distinction fallacy.

I'll repeat my self:

"He plugged Lois's ears with cotton before the sonic boom occured. And she never noticed."

If you can't see how a precise placement of an object like that translates into combat speed, then I'm affraid that you're doing the same thing that Phenomenol did by saying that that Odin fight was metaphorical.

Flight speed is simply moving his body, combat speed also entails accomplishing manual dexterity at high speeds.

Originally posted by carver9
naah cant prove any because they really didnt need a reason for flight speed in dragonball z. Combat speed. Have plenty of that. Never had a reason to fly super fast.Sham distinction fallacy. you argument is invalid.

Originally posted by carver9
Lifting strength. Naah dont really have much of that either since they never had a reason to lift anything or throw anything at there opponents due to it be none effective. Oh, no evidence. Nice. Isn't that what you were calling out for? Proving that people could do stuff?

I'm sure you'd accept the answers you're giving right?

Originally posted by carver9
BUT i can tell by there punches that they had super human strength. And i can tell with them lifting weights in 100 times and 500 times earth gravity that they were super strong. Oh I thought you just said they didn't have any lifting strength feats...

Changing your story are we?

SeerQris
Originally posted by Rorschach
I know Superman punched someone out of orbit because that character said he was out of orbit and you could clearly see that the character was off the planet. He hit the character hard enough to send out of orbit, and that's pretty strong punch.

I know Goku is fast, it's just not stated how fast he's moving in that video.
You just tottaly missed the point here.

Creshosk
Originally posted by carver9
They do disappear and reappear but i have never seen blast go directly through them.http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
I have never seen them stand there while fists are going through there body like they were a ghost.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
I have never seen them dodge a 1000 punches coming at them like it was nothing.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Thats the difference.
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg



no expressionyawn

Rorschach

gogogadgetgo
Originally posted by Rorschach
Frieza said it was 5 minutes. But that seems hihgly unlikely since before the planet blew up, All the Namek were resurrected, Vegeta talked to SSJ Goku, Dende wished for everyone on Namek except for Goku and Frieza to be telported to Earth. The main reason the fight dragged on for so long was because of all the standing around and screaming.

didnt freeza say the planet would blow up in 5 min. but after 5 min it actually didnt go boom coz his attact just went through the core or something? which gave them a little more time to chit chat? not really sure, ill have to re watch that episode.

on the fight, though i think that cell is more powerfull than superman (not stronger, just more powerful with all of his ki attacks and stuff). superman would win. i see the fight as going like this

cell: looks at superman and feels his ki....hmmm very low ki (or none at all coz superman's strength is not ki based). you? fight me? ahahahahaha!!!! and decides to let his guard down

superman: rushes cell and punches him to the sun...

cell: awwwwwwww...nooooooooooo!!!!!! howwwwwww!!!! and burns to a crisp

laughing

hontestly, dbz people are so full of themselves that they almost always let thier guard down when they don't feel any ki from their oponents.

NiņoAraņa
Originally posted by carver9
They do disappear and reappear but i have never seen blast go directly through them. I have never seen them stand there while fists are going through there body like they were a ghost. I have never seen them dodge a 1000 punches coming at them like it was nothing.

Thats the difference. can i get a scan of the Doomsday vs. Supes fight where Supes was getting into DDs head?

i mean that will pretty much put this to bed.

edit: it was posted like 5 times before i saw it. no expression

carver9
Originally posted by Creshosk
Was that supposed to be impressive? That was a lame music video.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

Wow, against a brick. You do know that doomsday havent had a nice speed display since the time he killed superman. Doomsday aint nothing but a brick. Damn, batman killed a ton of doomsday clone with a ax. I want to see combat speed like dragonball z. That wasnt close to the level of combat speed that i just showed you and i can only think of twice where superman has ever accomplished anything close to combat speed, the other was when he was fighting mongul.

Can you show me superman doing a 1000 punches per second then winking out doing a 1000 more punches, winking out making exploding noises all around the sky, in every direction.

You all keep showing me these lame scans that aint nothing that goku as a child didnt do. I guess i have to bring some regular dragonball scans.

SeerQris
Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg



http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg



http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg


http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg



no expressionyawn



Is the picture of Supes "phasing" supppose to be high end... Goku does that all the time. He could do it as a child.

Ultimate Hulk43
The stupid thing is Goku & the other DBZ characters do all that punching but can't seem to connect. Btw, Superman is faster than any DBZ character can fathom.

ExtraMision5555

NiņoAraņa
Originally posted by carver9
Wow, against a brick. You do know that doomsday havent had a nice speed display since the time he killed superman. Doomsday aint nothing but a brick. Damn, batman killed a ton of doomsday clone with a ax. I want to see combat speed like dragonball z. That wasnt close to the level of combat speed that i just showed you and i can only think of twice where superman has ever accomplished anything close to combat speed, the other was when he was fighting mongul.

Can you show me superman doing a 1000 punches per second then winking out doing a 1000 more punches, winking out making exploding noises all around the sky, in every direction.

You all keep showing me these lame scans that aint nothing that goku as a child didnt do. I guess i have to bring some regular dragonball scans. show you exploding noises in a comic book? no expression

and it doesn't matter if DD is a brick, the fact is you asked for evidence and it was shown, when you given just about no evidence....other then some videos of them "blinking in and out"

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