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Current incarnation of the doctor.
Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_%28Doctor_Who%29
Battle 1: 1 day of prep
Battle 2: 1 week of prep

Who takes this.

Originally posted by Akuki
Current incarnation of the doctor.
Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_%28Doctor_Who%29
Battle 1: 1 day of prep
Battle 2: 1 week of prep

Who takes this.

Doom. The Doctor has no real abilities to speak of outside of his intellect, which is VASTLY outclassed by doom.

There's no way for Doom to lose this unless he was in a coma at the time.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Doom. The Doctor has no real abilities to speak of outside of his intellect, which is VASTLY outclassed by doom.

There's no way for Doom to lose this unless he was in a coma at the time.
Intellect outclassed? the Doctor has some amazing prep feats. In the finale of season 1 he modified a television satellite into a weapon that could destroy all lfe on earth in about 25 minutes, and there's plenty of other feats he can do.

Originally posted by Akuki
Intellect outclassed? the Doctor has some amazing prep feats. In the finale of season 1 he modified a television satellite into a weapon that could destroy all lfe on earth in about 25 minutes, and there's plenty of other feats he can do.

that "television satellite" was the size of a skyscraper and had technology from what...several hundred centuries in the future? not exactly all that impressive all things considered. Plus, IIRC he was working to recreate the plans for a bomb that other time lords had created before him (and wiped themselves out with) during the time war.

Now, ask me how many times doom has conquered the planet, created working time machines, and self aware machines using CURRENT technology.

also: master sorcerer. I like Dr. who as much as the next guy, but he's screwed vs. Doom.

Season 1? lol

Sorry but the Doctor has been around since the 60's...

You can't really give a Time Lord one day prep, hes a time lord, the clue is in the title, time has no meaning to the Doctor, whats one day to you, with the aid of the Tardis could mean years to the Doctor.

He could quite easily in a day go to the far future and get tech that far outstripped anything Doom had ever seen.

Giving the Doctor any prep time is a mistake, given that standard equipment for him is the Tardis.

Please don't call him Doctor Who either, its not his name, he is simply "The Doctor" the name Dr Who is the program title only and was referenced in the first ever episode (William Hartnell as the doctor 1963) when he said he was the doctor and someone asked "Doctor who?"

The Doctor may be eccentric (depending on which one) but he is a genius far above human levels, don't under estimate him.

A couple of Dr. Who's devices are very very powerful, and the fact that the items are preexisting gives him an advantage as that makes it take a shorter time to construct them. The Tardis has been shown to have enough power to prevent the universe from collapsing, and he can also use the core to gain the time energies, which have been shown to give the wielder the ability to eliminate their enemies from the time stream, although that would be an almost suicidal method.

Just to clarify, we're saying a total of 1 week from Dr. Who's point of view, so no time manipulation to give him an infinit amount of prep time.

Originally posted by Hercules
Season 1? lol

Sorry but the Doctor has been around since the 60's...

You can't really give a Time Lord one day prep, hes a time lord, the clue is in the title, time has no meaning to the Doctor, whats one day to you, with the aid of the Tardis could mean years to the Doctor.

He could quite easily in a day go to the far future and get tech that far outstripped anything Doom had ever seen.

Giving the Doctor any prep time is a mistake, given that standard equipment for him is the Tardis.

Please don't call him Doctor Who either, its not his name, he is simply "The Doctor" the name Dr Who is the program title only and was referenced in the first ever episode (William Hartnell as the doctor 1963) when he said he was the doctor and someone asked "Doctor who?"

The Doctor may be eccentric (depending on which one) but he is a genius far above human levels, don't under estimate him.

The Doctor has been around since the 60s? so has doom!

I think referring to him as "dr who" is acceptable, given that "the doctor" may cause confusion with the authority. The program IS called Dr. Who after all so it's not that much of a stretch.

I'm assuming the forum battles don't allow for infinite prep via time machines. In case you werent aware, Doom has built working time machines of his own. allowing both to do so would result in an infinite prep situation and be kind of pointless.

Doom isn't "stuck" with current tech either- he's had access to alien technology from a variety of sources by now, and I think it's stating the obvious that current comic book technology is ridiculously advanced: matter manipulating and teleporting devices are practically standard issue, and Doom has an ARMY of self aware androids he's been building himself for years now.

Dr. Who practically sh*ts himself when he comes across a dalek or a cyberman, what would he do against a doombot? seriously?

and again, smart as he is, The Doctor is not a sorcerer and has no magical expertise. Doom is the #2 sorcerer on his planet in addition to one of the top minds- The Doctor would find himself sucked into a portal to hell before he knew what hit him.

again, doom in a curbstomp.

Hercules, I believe he is referring to the new series that started in 2005. Because they considered it a restart, they called it Season 1, rather than Season 27.

Still, unless the Doctor comes up with some miraculous way to attain victory, leave the Super Villain fighting to Super Heroes, not Time Lords.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Hercules, I believe he is referring to the new series that started in 2005. Because they considered it a restart, they called it Season 1, rather than Season 27.

Still, unless the Doctor comes up with some miraculous way to attain victory, leave the Super Villain fighting to Super Heroes, not Time Lords.

Umm, Rex? Isn't that what he always does? Aren't all of his plans last minute insane schemes that work? haermm

Doctor is VASTLY superior to Doom intellect wise.

We are talking about a guy here who was only mystified by technology in the year TEN TRILLION.

Everything up to that he understood.

Not that I normally have anything to do wit vs...

But the Doctor has NEVER lost against anything, and that includes super-powerful god beings that would leave Doom looking like a toddler.

The Doctor is just a trump card. Where he goes he wins.

Originally posted by grey fox
Doctor is VASTLY superior to Doom intellect wise.

We are talking about a guy here who was only mystified by technology in the year TEN TRILLION.

Everything up to that he understood.

You do understand that the amount of years doesn't really make THAT big a difference? Seeing as we have no fricking idea whether they had more complicated tech 8 trillion years from now of 1 trillion year from now. Nor we do know which speed their technology evolved at, meaning that it could only be slightly more advanced than what Doc Doom has. Understand?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not that I normally have anything to do wit vs...

But the Doctor has NEVER lost against anything, and that includes super-powerful god beings that would leave Doom looking like a toddler.

The Doctor is just a trump card. Where he goes he wins.

PIS

The setup here isn't quire right.

Act 1: The TARDIS arrives in Latveria and the Doctor and his sidekick de jour go out and explore. They're a bit confused by the anachronistic peasant garb, initially thinking themselves to be in the 19th century. After talking to the townspeople and sensing something amiss, they are taken prisoner by Dooms robots and brought to the castle.

Act 2: Doom is all cordial once he gets a clue as to what the Doctor is, and wines and dines them while probing for information. The TARDIS is taken by bots and moved to the castle. When the Doctor refuses to let Doom into the TARDIS and gets kind of sassy, Doom throws them both in the dungeon. While Doom tinkers with the TARDIS trying to get inside, the Doctor and his sidekick manage to escape their cells, poke around on the computer system, and get loose in the castle complex. Doom discovers their absence when he comes down to threaten gloat.

Act 3: Fight!

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not that I normally have anything to do wit vs...

But the Doctor has NEVER lost against anything, and that includes super-powerful god beings that would leave Doom looking like a toddler.

Doom has gone toe to toe with Galactus, beaten him, and then stolen the power from both him AND his galaxy sized worldship before deciding to confront the freaking BEYONDER one on one.

He's also physically gone to hell, battled and won against mephisto wearing nothing but a leather outfit.

He's gone toe to toe with ODIN and beaten him senseless.

Doom has come up against enemies so far beyond Dr. Who's class it's ridiculous to even compare the two.



Plot induced Stupidity is the only thing the Doctor has going for him. Doom has conquered the planet no less than 4 times on his own- and not just ANY planet, a planet swarming with superhumans, and ONE of those worlds was 100 years in the future. (2099)

Who has no chance here.

When did Doom beat Galcatus and Odin?

Not like he used any of his own powers in a lot of those feats, hell he needed Klaw to empower himself :/

what equipment does the doctor have, this is a most vague rational only giving prep time?

does the doctor have his tardis, sonic screw driver, with k9 as a sidekick for technical support? where does this battle take place is there an abundent supply of ambient technology laying surplesss for either of them to tap into?

i would say knowing the trends of comic book battles doctor who wins this one because he has both his healing comas, as well as regenration to fall back on, ! he also has a superior body, he has a binary cardiac system ( two hearts), and has natural resistances to radiation, the doctor is also has telepathic abilites to be put into consideration

as for dooms battle suit compared to the doctors level of science it is outdated and hardly fool proof, thus he would be able to find some form of weaknesss

why did you not make this battle doctor who vs kang the conquer?

Originally posted by llagrok
When did Doom beat Galcatus and Odin?

Not like he used any of his own powers in a lot of those feats, hell he needed Klaw to empower himself :/

Doom stole the powers of galactus and his worldship during secret wars. Galactus was pretty f'ed up and close to dead after this.

Doom fought Odin (and beat him) after this while still wielding galactus' powers. the scans are in the respect thread if you want to see them.

The point there is that "facing god like characters that make doom look like a toddler" is a laughable advantage to try to bring up, since doom has fought the Pre-retcon beyonder, Mephisto, Galactus, and Odin who literally ARE Gods.



It says you're a senior member so you should be aware by now that a KO= a loss here. a "healing coma" will not factor into this fight, and he cannot regenerate at will. He also needs the TARDIS to accomplish this and I can't see doom just carrying him back in there and giving him a few hours to heal up.



Dr who's telepathic abilities have never been used offensively- in contrast Doom also has vagely defined telepathic abilities as well as equipment that shields him from mind control. He can also switch minds at will with a target and there is NO defense against this.

as for "superior body" Doom is wearing a nuclear powered battlesuit that's taken hits from Thor, Thanos, and the Beyonder. trying to say having "two hearts" somehow is an advantage vs. something that could tear him to pieces in seconds is ridiculous.

Doom is-again-also the #2 sorceror on the planet with magic at his disposal. He could very easily banish who to the ninth circle of hell with a gesture.



uh, doom's level of science is far beyond what who is used to dealing with. we're talking about a man who creates time machines and sentient superhuman androids from scratch with current level tech, and has equipment capable of banishing a target to entirely different dimensions.

In contrast the doctor did NOT create his Tardis and in some cases only has a basic understanding of how it actually works. two good case in point are being unable to fix the cloaking unit (this is why it still looks like a phonebooth) as well as when it accidentally crossed to a different dimension, and he had no explanation as to how it happened and admitted he couldn't repeat the process under any circumstances.

In contrast even future tech is nothing to doom- the man conquered 2099 within a year of arriving there, and marvel 2099 equipment is high tech even by comic book standards.

I know that Doom did a lot of things with Galactus' power. How are they relevant here? Being able to beat a skyfather when you're wielding Galactus' power isn't impressive, not by a long shot.

Originally posted by llagrok
I know that Doom did a lot of things with Galactus' power. How are they relevant here? Being able to beat a skyfather when you're wielding Galactus' power isn't impressive, not by a long shot.

That was only brought up to refute the "Dr. Who has faced godlike beings!" argument. it's mostly irrelevant here.

but now that you brought it up, how did Doom end up with Galactus' power? oh right! he stole it! using his own tech! you know, the tech that drastically outclasses what Dr Who typically uses.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
That was only brought up to refute the "Dr. Who has faced godlike beings!" argument. it's mostly irrelevant here.

but now that you brought it up, how did Doom end up with Galactus' power? oh right! he stole it! using his own tech! you know, the tech that drastically outclasses what Dr Who typically uses.

Using his own tech?

You mean slicing up a retard?

Being overmatched in a physical sense by Doom's armor is largely meaningless. The Doctor isn't going to beat up Doom (though Doctor #3's smack-fu was pretty good ). He's going to come up with a clever way to turn Doom's tech against him, or trick Doom into making a CIS (thus valid) error through Doom's tremendous hubris.

Basically the same way (the accursed) Reed Richards beats Doom in most engagements only with better banter and not so much stretching.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
Being overmatched in a physical sense by Doom's armor is largely meaningless. The Doctor isn't going to beat up Doom (though Doctor #3's smack-fu was pretty good ). He's going to come up with a clever way to turn Doom's tech against him, or trick Doom into making a CIS (thus valid) error through Doom's tremendous hubris.

Basically the same way (the accursed) Reed Richards beats Doom in most engagements only with better banter and not so much stretching.

This is the forums. PIS/CIS are off by default.

The Doctor may very well not try to beat up doom, but the opposite is NOT true. Doom is going to use any and all methods available to vaporize the Doctor on the spot.

You can speculate how the Doctor would "turn doom's tech against him!" (which would be quite a feat, seeing as no one has managed to do this yet) or "take advantage of his hubris!" but coming up with anything remotely specific that would result in a win for the doctor is nearly impossible.

he's facing an opponent who is as smart or smarter than he is, with greater resources, a personal army, and a willingness to kill.

And it's worth noting that Reed usually needs the entire fantastic four to take on Doom, and even that would be totally unthinkable without his powers.

Can you really say something is PIS when it is the entire basis of the character? When you're coming up crazy last minute solutions every time your character appears, that's no longer PIS, that's a legitimate battle tactic.

You are mistaken. PIS is invalid, but CIS is a perfectly valid consideration. That's why there's a distinction. The characters are to behave as they typically do as written unless the thread specifies bloodlust or similar. That's why there's a distinction.

Reed and Tony have both subverted Dooms stuff in the past, there's no reason to think the Doctor couldn't. I can't come up with anything specific because I'm not an uber-genius like they are.

Reed and Victor have had plenty of solo matchups over the years, going all the way back to the 60's. They're not usually slugfests, but Reed usually wins.



You just described most of his battles with the Master. He wins those too.

Originally posted by Akuki
Can you really say something is PIS when it is the entire basis of the character? When you're coming up crazy last minute solutions every time your character appears, that's no longer PIS, that's a legitimate battle tactic.

it's not a legitimate battle tactic if you can't say what the tactic is. You can't simply state that Batman could take Thanos with prep because "oh, he'll think of something!"

You also can't claim a win based on the assumption that the other character will just make a mistake and give you an opening.

Tell you what- propose at least two scenarios where the Doctor could conceivably, conclusively win here.



ok, fair enough. we'll assume that both characters are operating as they usually do.



Uh, the Doctor isn't on Reed or Tony's level either. and keep in mind he's working pretty much from scratch here. A sonic screwdriver and the Tardis aren't going to be sufficient to match the kind of stuff doom has hidden in his closet. (helloooo dimensional banishment!)



There have been just as many where the FF has come within a hair of getting their ass handed to them. Reed taking on Doom 1 on 1 and winning is HIGHLY unusual, which is kind of the point of the fantastic four. they work best operating as a team, and it's Doom's inability to do this that usually works against him.

That's not to say he hasn't/can't take out superteams though, because he can.

Originally posted by Akuki
Can you really say something is PIS when it is the entire basis of the character? When you're coming up crazy last minute solutions every time your character appears, that's no longer PIS, that's a legitimate battle tactic.

There's a line to be drawn there. Simply being able to improvise well under pressure isn't PIS.

Having every guard who ever locks you up fail to take away your sonic screwdriver is PIS.

Taking into account the Doctor isn't the fighting type I was gonna say Doom, but seeing as they both get prep, I'm gonna go with the Doctor

Doom: My Name is Doctor Doom!!!

Doctor: I'm the Doctor.

Doom: Doctor Who?

Doctor: Exactly!

Doom: ??????????????

In any kind of stand up battle, Doom certainly wins, for the same reasons that he is able to stand up to whole teams and such.

The Doctor could win by not allowing the conflict to be framed as such, something at which he's proven successful many many times. As soon as Doom captures the Doctor and brings him into his audience chamber with the globe, enormous fireplace and big drapes and starts verbally fencing with the Doctor while sipping from his ostentatious jewell-encrusted wine goblet (you can so tell he's neuvous-riche), he's begun to play the Doctor's game. The Doctor is very good at his own game.

Reed usually beats Victor at non-physical contests because he is the more creative and dynamic thinker of the two. Doom is able to achieve more over time because he is the superior procedural and analytical thinker. The Doctor is much like an ADD version of Reed, only moreso.

Our main difference seems to be that you think that when it comes to the game of cat-and-also-cat that the Doctor likes to play, Doom will overmatch him in terms of intellect (your describing him as "not on reed and tony's level" for instance). I think not.

Reed, Tony, Victor, and a few others represent "Peak Human" intellect. The Doctor is beyond that. Peak Time Lord > Peak Human.

The Doctor simply conceptually never loses. Doom loses all the darn time.

The Doictor himself is a bad mix for any genre because he is, as I say, a trump card. Put him against alien, mad scientist or God, he just wins. That's the whole point of his character.

Put him in a scenario where 'he' doesn't win and you are basically no longer talking about the Doctor.

Incidentally it does not even vaguely fit these defintions of PIS or CIS. It is simply true that the Doctor always- ALWAYS- finds a way. That's categorical.

I don't know that I'd go that far, Genesis of the Daleks, or even The Unearthly Child for example. There are times when he doesn't so much "win" as "survive." Many times the best he can do is a phyrric "victory" that averts some far worse thing from happenning.

Lots of characters win all the time because their name's on the story. I do get what you're saying though. The Doctor finding a solutiobn is like Cap never giving up. It's a part of the character's myth.

Except he did win in Genesis- he realised what a bad move it would have been. He wasn't defeated; he voluntarily chose to do what he did.

Unearthly Child wasn't against an enemy; it was just a string of events.

As indeed you say- it is part of the myth. The Doctor is conceptually just a person who always helps, always saves, always finds a way, always wins, never fails. As such he's an appalling person to use in any versus match. All the more so because you simply cannot gauge his powers- the Doctor is a leveller. he finds a maniac with a gun just as difficult as the source of all evil in the cosmos or the creators of the Universe.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
The Doctor simply conceptually never loses. Doom loses all the darn time.

The Doictor himself is a bad mix for any genre because he is, as I say, a trump card. Put him against alien, mad scientist or God, he just wins. That's the whole point of his character.

Put him in a scenario where 'he' doesn't win and you are basically no longer talking about the Doctor.

Incidentally it does not even vaguely fit these defintions of PIS or CIS. It is simply true that the Doctor always- ALWAYS- finds a way. That's categorical.

The Doctor won't lose because he hasn't lost so far?

That logic doesn't work here mate. Nor does "the point of his character is to win" work as a valid argument. Things like that just roll right under PIS. Or do you actually believe that Squirrel Girl is stronger than Thanos?

Originally posted by llagrok
The Doctor won't lose because he hasn't lost so far?

That logic doesn't work here mate. Nor does "the point of his character is to win" work as a valid argument. Things like that just roll right under PIS. Or do you actually believe that Squirrel Girl is stronger than Thanos?
Well the same as with her beating Dr. Doom, but that's been confirmed as canon. Also when it comes down to it, with prep the doctor has more than enough ability to beat Doom. He is a an extremely high level genius who has access to higher level tech and knows exactly how to use it. He's beaten stronger foes than Doom before, and he has access to tech that can give him extremely high level reality warping powers, and plenty of other stuff. Doom wins against higher level powers by using his tech to steal their power from them, The Doctor has the skills and tech necessary to insure that doesn't happen, and he has the tech necessary to take Doom out, the doc wins. Doom is a beast with prep, but the doctor has shown the ability to be just as much of one, and he has better resources to call on.

Squirrel Girl is awesome! She'd be SvF except that she pulls off upset victories every time.

But back on subject. Ushgarak is right from a literary perspective, but that's not really how we operate here. OTOH I think the Doctor could turn Castle Doom to his advantage using the all the crazy tech that Doom has the place riddled with. He sets various techno-tyrants up to be foisted by their own petards far more often than he uses the TARDIS somehow.

bumped