Thanos(with individual Infinity Gems) vs Darkseid

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darthgoober
Just to save time I figured I'd combine them all into one thread

Fight 1. Thanos w/Soul Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 2. Thanos w/Mind Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 3. Thanos w/Power Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 4. Thanos w/Time Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 5. Thanos w/Space Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 6. Thanos w/Reality Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid

Galan007
Originally posted by darthgoober
Just to save time I figured I'd combine them all into one thread

Fight 1. Thanos w/Soul Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 2. Thanos w/Mind Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 3. Thanos w/Power Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 4. Thanos w/Time Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 5. Thanos w/Space Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 6. Thanos w/Reality Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid IMO,

DS has the best chances in battles 1, 2, and 5...

darthgoober
Originally posted by Galan007
IMO,

DS has the best chances in battles 1, 2, and 5...
What kind of odds do you give him for the fights overall?

Galan007
Originally posted by darthgoober
What kind of odds do you give him for the fights overall? He has the potential to take 2-3/6 fights, imo...

quanchi112
with each gem thanos is to much.

Astner

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Just to save time I figured I'd combine them all into one thread

Fight 1. Thanos w/Soul Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 2. Thanos w/Mind Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 3. Thanos w/Power Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 4. Thanos w/Time Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 5. Thanos w/Space Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid
Fight 6. Thanos w/Reality Gem vs Pre ALE Darkseid

Fight One is Tricky. Dont' know how That one would go. DS has power over life and death as well as souls. Could go either way.


fight 2. DS wins. The Mind Gem was unimpressive. Thanos has better Tp feats than Moondragon, a top tier telepath on her own with it, she seemed no more powerful than before.


Fight 3. Thanos wins this one.

Fight 4. Draw. DS has time powers on his own. I dont' see either doing much to the other that cannot be countered. If they are both only using the Time powers. Overal DS is more powerful while Thanos is more resiliant.

Fight 5. The Space Gem isn't going to be impressive in Thanos hands. He isn't the runner and isn't fast. While DS is uber fast when he chooses to be. DS also can TP on his own. DS wins this one.

Fight 6. DS best feats with Reality manip are with the Omega and in GDS. He also seems to be able to kill and then recreate the person he's utterly destroyed. I am not too familiar with Thanos's feats with the reality gem.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Fight One is Tricky. Dont' know how That one would go. DS has power over life and death as well as souls. Could go either way.


fight 2. DS wins. The Mind Gem was unimpressive. Thanos has better Tp feats than Moondragon, a top tier telepath on her own with it, she seemed no more powerful than before.


Fight 3. Thanos wins this one.

Fight 4. Draw. DS has time powers on his own. I dont' see either doing much to the other that cannot be countered. If they are both only using the Time powers. Overal DS is more powerful while Thanos is more resiliant.

Fight 5. The Space Gem isn't going to be impressive in Thanos hands. He isn't the runner and isn't fast. While DS is uber fast when he chooses to be. DS also can TP on his own. DS wins this one.

Fight 6. DS best feats with Reality manip are with the Omega and in GDS. He also seems to be able to kill and then recreate the person he's utterly destroyed. I am not too familiar with Thanos's feats with the reality gem. thanos was master over souls. adam warlock defeated mephisto in his own realm with this gem. ds goes down hard. thanos with the time gem could utterly just drag ds around whenever he wanted. mastery over time is a lot more than ds possesses. thanos with the space gem doesnt have to be fact he can mentally teleport and ds wont know what killed him.

thanos with the reality gem would just kill ds as he stood there. sorry but ds goes down hard in each fight as the gems are way to much for anything ds can throw their ways.

lordboo
imho chumpsied doesnt win a match

quanchi112
Originally posted by lordboo
imho chumpsied doesnt win a match he really wouldnt win one match. thanos would be way to much for him.

CaptainStoic
First off, Darkseid is more powerful than ever here on KMC, it has never been stated that he was more powerful than Thanos, he fought Thanos in Marvel vs DC, this was one of the confrontations that were not polled for votes, and he held his own against him. In my opinion, without the Gems it would be a stalemate, with them Thanos would have a big edge.... espcially since he mastered using them, in his reign as supreme being. Just remember the writers of both companies have agreed that Thanos is Marvels Darkseid, these guys could fight forever and no one would win.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
First off, Darkseid is more powerful than ever here on KMC, it has never been stated that he was more powerful than Thanos, he fought Thanos in Marvel vs DC, this was one of the confrontations that were not polled for votes, and he held his own against him. In my opinion, without the Gems it would be a stalemate, with them Thanos would have a big edge.... espcially since he mastered using them, in his reign as supreme being. Just remember the writers of both companies have agreed that Thanos is Marvels Darkseid, these guys could fight forever and no one would win.
Actually the writer's of both companies have agreed that Thanos is a pale comparison to DS. Fail. Try again. DS was hodling his own against Thor and Silver Surfer, WHile Thanos was getting rocked by CM, and WW and GL.

quanchi112
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
First off, Darkseid is more powerful than ever here on KMC, it has never been stated that he was more powerful than Thanos, he fought Thanos in Marvel vs DC, this was one of the confrontations that were not polled for votes, and he held his own against him. In my opinion, without the Gems it would be a stalemate, with them Thanos would have a big edge.... espcially since he mastered using them, in his reign as supreme being. Just remember the writers of both companies have agreed that Thanos is Marvels Darkseid, these guys could fight forever and no one would win. thats becuz the companies wouldnt want the other companies badass to lose. it would if it were written most likely be written into a stalemate. just like dc would never allow superman to look bad against a marvel hero. but here we can decide and here in this thread in particular thanos wins.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Fight One is Tricky. Dont' know how That one would go. DS has power over life and death as well as souls. Could go either way.


fight 2. DS wins. The Mind Gem was unimpressive. Thanos has better Tp feats than Moondragon, a top tier telepath on her own with it, she seemed no more powerful than before.


Fight 3. Thanos wins this one.

Fight 4. Draw. DS has time powers on his own. I dont' see either doing much to the other that cannot be countered. If they are both only using the Time powers. Overal DS is more powerful while Thanos is more resiliant.

Fight 5. The Space Gem isn't going to be impressive in Thanos hands. He isn't the runner and isn't fast. While DS is uber fast when he chooses to be. DS also can TP on his own. DS wins this one.

Fight 6. DS best feats with Reality manip are with the Omega and in GDS. He also seems to be able to kill and then recreate the person he's utterly destroyed. I am not too familiar with Thanos's feats with the reality gem.

While I agree with some of your points for some of the Gems there's just a couple of things I'd like to address....

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Fight 4. Draw. DS has time powers on his own. I dont' see either doing much to the other that cannot be countered. If they are both only using the Time powers. Overal DS is more powerful while Thanos is more resiliant.
Wasn't it established in the Great Darkness Saga that Darkseid's powers weaken with age? Think about it, 10,000 years into the future DS was massively weakened from age and had to absorb several outside power sources to match his original level of power, so just imagine how weak he'd be if Thanos aged him a million years the way he did to the Runner.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Fight 6. DS best feats with Reality manip are with the Omega and in GDS. He also seems to be able to kill and then recreate the person he's utterly destroyed. I am not too familiar with Thanos's feats with the reality gem.
The GDS isn't usable as a feat source for DS's current incarnations due to it being a future version of the character. It may be the same DS, but since he hasn't done it yet we can't credit him with the feats.

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
While I agree with some of your points for some of the Gems there's just a couple of things I'd like to address....


Wasn't it established in the Great Darkness Saga that Darkseid's powers weaken with age? Think about it, 10,000 years into the future DS was massively weakened from age and had to absorb several outside power sources to match his original level of power, so just imagine how weak he'd be if Thanos aged him a million years the way he did to the Runner.


The GDS isn't usable as a feat source for DS's current incarnations due to it being a future version of the character. It may be the same DS, but since he hasn't done it yet we can't credit him with the feats. I just want to point something out real quick. The Gds Darkseid was probally weakened by some sort of event(most likely he was defeated by Orion). Seid doesn't weaken with age, this has been show many times. As for the his feats being credible to the character, they are like you said, the same character. However they should count, seeing how that version was supposed to be inferior to his 20th century self.

quanchi112
Originally posted by darthgoober
While I agree with some of your points for some of the Gems there's just a couple of things I'd like to address....


Wasn't it established in the Great Darkness Saga that Darkseid's powers weaken with age? Think about it, 10,000 years into the future DS was massively weakened from age and had to absorb several outside power sources to match his original level of power, so just imagine how weak he'd be if Thanos aged him a million years the way he did to the Runner.


The GDS isn't usable as a feat source for DS's current incarnations due to it being a future version of the character. It may be the same DS, but since he hasn't done it yet we can't credit him with the feats. ive told starking this for months. good show.


Happy Dance

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
I just want to point something out real quick. The Gds Darkseid was probally weakened by some sort of event(most likely he was defeated by Orion). Seid doesn't weaken with age, this has been show many times. As for the his feats being credible to the character, they are like you said, the same character. However they should count, seeing how that version was supposed to be inferior to his 20th century self. until it happens u cant give him a free pass. i mean be realistic. u say most likely he was defated by orion this is just speculation on ur part.

laughing

feats dont stand as they never have and havent occurred yet.

starking
Originally posted by quanchi112
until it happens u cant give him a free pass. i mean be realistic. u say most likely he was defated by orion this is just speculation on ur part.

laughing

feats dont stand as they never have and havent occurred yet. Please don't respond to me, when I'm not adressing you. You do this with everyone, yet your the same person who tells people to respect each others opinions. Stop sticking your foot in MY business, it's very annoying.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
I just want to point something out real quick. The Gds Darkseid was probally weakened by some sort of event(most likely he was defeated by Orion). Seid doesn't weaken with age, this has been show many times. As for the his feats being credible to the character, they are like you said, the same character. However they should count, seeing how that version was supposed to be inferior to his 20th century self.
In regards to your theory I'd just like to point out that you yourself said that he was PROBABLY weakened from some event. The thing is that no such event was ever established as having happened in that arc. That means that there's no proof of that.

And as I've pointed out many times at this point, a 16 year old Charles Xavier would be PHYSICALLY superior to an 60 year old Xavier(which is all that was said about the younger DS, that he was PHYSICALLY superior) but that doesn't mean that you credit the 16 year old Xavier with the telepathy feats of the 60 year old. Some things just take time and practice to get good at...

quanchi112
Originally posted by darthgoober
In regards to your theory I'd just like to point out that you yourself said that he was PROBABLY weakened from some event. The thing is that no such event was ever established as having happened in that arc. That means that there's no proof of that.

And as I've pointed out many times at this point, a 16 year old Charles Xavier would be PHYSICALLY superior to an 60 year old Xavier(which is all that was said about the younger DS, that he was PHYSICALLY superior) but that doesn't mean that you credit the 16 year old Xavier with the telepathy feats of the 60 year old. Some things just take time and practice to get good at... great points darthgoober but ive spent months giving him different scenarios as to why u cant count a feat until u do it. he just likes darkseid to much and wants to count it. thats the bottom line.

i told him before if i practice hard at benchpressing and in 2 years i press 300lbs i cant count the feat until i do it two years from now. its be like me counting it before i tdid it. it makes no sense. to count it it must have happened. bottom line.

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
In regards to your theory I'd just like to point out that you yourself said that he was PROBABLY weakened from some event. The thing is that no such event was ever established as having happened in that arc. That means that there's no proof of that.And there's no proof that he was weakened by age....which doesn't make much sense, seeing how Ds is immortal.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And as I've pointed out many times at this point, a 16 year old Charles Xavier would be PHYSICALLY superior to an 60 year old Xavier(which is all that was said about the younger DS, that he was PHYSICALLY superior) but that doesn't mean that you credit the 16 year old Xavier with the telepathy feats of the 60 year old. Some things just take time and practice to get good at... But it the story didn't say he was physically superior, it just said he was weaker....Not only that but your example has no similarities to Gds Ds.no expression You know for sure that Seid wasn't in top shape, seeing how needed to take Mordru and Time Trapper's power. And one other thing, that version of the character didn't display any abilities different than his current self. Mindrape, reality warp, power snatching, and creating beings of great power, has been shown to be apart of Ds's powerset. Hell, an avatar of Ds can create a reality.

starking
Originally posted by quanchi112
great points darthgoober but ive spent months giving him different scenarios as to why u cant count a feat until u do it. he just likes darkseid to much and wants to count it. thats the bottom line.

i told him before if i practice hard at benchpressing and in 2 years i press 300lbs i cant count the feat until i do it two years from now. its be like me counting it before i tdid it. it makes no sense. to count it it must have happened. bottom line. No, all you did was steal his argument and failed miserably by doing so. Whenever someone disagrees with me, you take their opinion and try to use it against me. Stay out of my business, when I want to speak with you, I'll adress you.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
And there's no proof that he was weakened by age....which doesn't make much sense, seeing how Ds is immortal.
I'm almost positive that it was DIRECTLY stated that he was weakened from age, but if you like I can look again and post whatever scans I find on the subject. And DS being immortal shouldn't matter either, considering the fact that a BILLION years is nothing to the Runner(who is also immortal via being barred from the Realm of Death), but Thanos was able to take him out by aging him a mere million with the Time Gem, so evidently the Time Gem supersedes things like immortality...

Originally posted by starking
But it the story didn't say he was physically superior, it just said he was weaker....Not only that but your example has no similarities to Gds Ds.no expression You know for sure that Seid wasn't in top shape, seeing how needed to take Mordru and Time Trapper's power. And other thing, that version of the character didn't display any abilities different than his current self. Minrape, reality warp, power snatching, and creating beings of great power, has been shown to be apart of Ds's power set. Hell, an avatar of Ds can create a reality.
Are you talking about the meeting between DS and his older self? Because in that particular match that's EXACTLY what was said, that the younger DS was physically superior, but the older DS was mentally superior. And the 16 year old Xavier would actually have the same power set as the 60 year old Xavier, it's just that he wouldn't know how to use it with anywhere near the efficiency of his 60 year old counterpart(which is my whole point).

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
No, all you did was steal his argument and failed miserably by doing so. Whenever someone disagrees with me, you take their opinion and try to use it against me. Stay out of my business, when I want to speak with you, I'll adress you. becuz i argue with someone its funny but i never get credit. if i agree with someone or state the same thing and use my own stories its not my argument huh? i guess whoever else agrees with me it becomes theors immediatley in ur eyes. darth and i are correct. im not insulting u i am merely stating to darth that i have already had this argument with me. if u dont want me to respond dont post becuz that is what goes in these forums. ignore me then as i wont stop posting. and for the record i have always disagreed with u on this. long time.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
And there's no proof that he was weakened by age....which doesn't make much sense, seeing how Ds is immortal.

But it the story didn't say he was physically superior, it just said he was weaker....Not only that but your example has no similarities to Gds Ds.no expression You know for sure that Seid wasn't in top shape, seeing how needed to take Mordru and Time Trapper's power. And one other thing, that version of the character didn't display any abilities different than his current self. Mindrape, reality warp, power snatching, and creating beings of great power, has been shown to be apart of Ds's powerset. Hell, an avatar of Ds can create a reality. nope it was stated in foundations that older ds needed his younger self becuz he was weakned in the future and needed something becuz like anyone the older he gets the weaker he gets. he cant live forever on his own accord. he obvioulsy wont live anywhere near as long as the elders of the amrvel universe becuz they can survive billions of years while ds looked like a feeble old darkseid in the not so far off future. ds gets worse with age.

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm almost positive that it was DIRECTLY stated that he was weakened from age, but if you like I can look again and post whatever scans I find on the subject. And DS being immortal shouldn't matter either, considering the fact that a BILLION years is nothing to the Runner(who is also immortal via being barred from the Realm of Death), but Thanos was able to take him out by aging him a mere million with the Time Gem, so evidently the Time Gem supersedes things like immortality...But that's an example for a different character, therefor it's irrelevent. As for the rest of that, I believe his loss of power had nothing to do with age. New Gods are immortal and shouldn't extinguish so easily. But if you can find some context that proves me wrong, then it want bother me at all. smile


Originally posted by darthgoober
Are you talking about the meeting between DS and his older self? Because in that particular match that's EXACTLY what was said, that the younger DS was physically superior, but the older DS was mentally superior. And the 16 year old Xavier would actually have the same power set as the 60 year old Xavier, it's just that he wouldn't know how to use it with anywhere near the efficiency of his 60 year old counterpart(which is my whole point). That was in Legion of Superheroes Foundations. I know what your probally thinking I'm two faced, because I'm the same person who tried to use that as evidence. However recently, I've learned that it was a different timeline from the pre-crisis one. I still stand by my statement that Gds Seid and current are Seid are one in the same. An alternate timeline is just history reshaped by a certain event. Meaning the events are different, but the character's are still one and the same. And for your example, we don't know if that Ds was more skilled with his powers, cause you know he didn't have them for like a hundred years. If anything, when you lose something like that for so long, I would think you would be pretty rusty.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
But that's an example for a different character, therefor it's irrelevent. As for the rest of that, I believe his loss of power had nothing to do with age. New Gods are immortal and shouldn't extinguish so easily. But if you can find some context that proves me wrong, then it want bother me at all. smile


That was in Legion of Superheroes Foundations. I know what your probally thinking I'm two faced, because I'm the same person who tried to use that as evidence. However recently, I've learned that it was a different timeline from the pre-crisis one. I still stand by my statement that Gds Seid and current are Seid are one in the same. An alternate timeline is just history reshaped by a certain event. Meaning the events are different, but the character's are still one and the same. And for your example, we don't know if that Ds was more skilled with his powers, cause you know he didn't have them for like a hundred years. If anything, when you lose something like that for so long, I would think you would be pretty rusty. it doesnt matter if these events do happen though which they most certainly wont. it doesnt matter if the characters are the same anyways u cant count me lifitng 300 pounds now before i have done it. how can u count it until it happens. how. how can u put that on his list of feats when it hasnt been performed. how???????? answer me this.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
But that's an example for a different character, therefor it's irrelevent.
You can't impartially hold one standard true for DS and then hold everyone else to a different standard. I mean come on, either we're all drinking from the same water fountain or not...

Originally posted by starking
As for the rest of that, I believe his loss of power had nothing to do with age. New Gods are immortal and shouldn't extinguish so easily. But if you can find some context that proves me wrong, then it want bother me at all. smile

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8906/lshv229437va9.th.jpg

His powers waned OVER THE MILLENNIUM, that means that they faded with time.

Originally posted by starking
That was in Legion of Superheroes Foundations. I know what your probally thinking I'm two faced, because I'm the same person who tried to use that as evidence. However recently, I've learned that it was a different timeline from the pre-crisis one.
Good then we won't be hearing that DS's current incarnation defeated his future self from the GDS in combat anymore...

Originally posted by starking
I still stand by my statement that Gds Seid and current are Seid are one in the same. An alternate timeline is just history reshaped by a certain event. Meaning the events are different, but the character's are still one and the same. And for your example, we don't know if that Ds was more skilled with his powers, cause you know he didn't have them for like a hundred years. If anything, when you lose something like that for so long, I would think you would be pretty rusty.
I don't care if it's the same character or not, it's his FUTURE self which means that DS's current incarnation doesn't have the feats to his credit. I understand why it seems like it SHOULD be considered valid because of the complex nature of the New Gods, that's why I asked Digi whether or not the GDS would qualify as being an alternate version under forum rules. And you know what, it does. That means that the feats are inadmissible to DS's current incarnation.

BTW, when I looked through the GDS again to find that scan of him stating that his powers waned over time I noticed something interesting. When DS took control of Daxam, the planet was orbiting a red sun. That means that he NEVER took control over 3 billion Pre Crisis Superman level beings in that arc, he took control over 3 billion HUMAN level beings because none of them had ANY powers until DS transported the planet so that it would orbit a yellow sun(which is what bumped them up to Pre Crisis Supes level).

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by darthgoober
You can't impartially hold one standard true for DS and then hold everyone else to a different standard. I mean come on, either we're all drinking from the same water fountain or not...



http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8906/lshv229437va9.th.jpg

His powers waned OVER THE MILLENNIUM, that means that they faded with time.


Good then we won't be hearing that DS's current incarnation defeated his future self from the GDS in combat anymore...


I don't care if it's the same character or not, it's his FUTURE self which means that DS's current incarnation doesn't have the feats to his credit. I understand why it seems like it SHOULD be considered valid because of the complex nature of the New Gods, that's why I asked Digi whether or not the GDS would qualify as being an alternate version under forum rules. And you know what, it does. That means that the feats are inadmissible to DS's current incarnation.

BTW, when I looked through the GDS again to find that scan of him stating that his powers waned over time I noticed something interesting. When DS took control of Daxam, the planet was orbiting a red sun. That means that he NEVER took control over 3 billion Pre Crisis Superman level beings in that arc, he took control over 3 billion HUMAN level beings because none of them had ANY powers until DS transported the planet so that it would orbit a yellow sun(which is what bumped them up to Pre Crisis Supes level).

1. Your example was completely inapplicable. Darkseid is a new god, not a human. You bring up Thanos, or Odin, or someone comparable, then maybe you'd have a point. But Xavier and Darkseid aren't in the same league, and only one of them is immortal and a higher level being.

2. We do not know what caused his powers to wane, but we know it wasn't the dirt nap. It was because someone defeated him. And evidence points to it being Orion, since he's not around.

3. No comment. But it's still blatently obvious that GDS Darkseid was far weaker than his normal self.

4. He was a weakened version of the same character, and it was the same timeline. So we have a perspective on his true power.

5. He was still holding them after moving the planet to a yellow sun. and he was fighting the legion while holding them. Stop trying to demean the feat. doped

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
1. Your example was completely inapplicable. Darkseid is a new god, not a human. You bring up Thanos, or Odin, or someone comparable, then maybe you'd have a point. But Xavier and Darkseid aren't in the same league, and only one of them is immortal and a higher level being.
Really? Are New Gods BORN with complete knowledge of the full extent of their abilities now, or do they learn how to use them like everybody else? But since you brought up Thanos as an example, if Thanos from 10,000 years into the future came back to the past, would you automatically credit Thanos with his future selves feats?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
2. We do not know what caused his powers to wane, but we know it wasn't the dirt nap. It was because someone defeated him. And evidence points to it being Orion, since he's not around.
I know that in the scan it said that his powers weakened over the millennium, which in my mind sounds like he's saying that they faded with time. I've never seen anything to suggest that he was weakened by Orion or anyone else, but I'm more than willing to take a look if you have any evidence to that effect.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
3. No comment. But it's still blatently obvious that GDS Darkseid was far weaker than his normal self.
No comment on what?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
4. He was a weakened version of the same character, and it was the same timeline. So we have a perspective on his true power.
No we have perspective on his faded, and then amped up power. It's still inadmissible under forum rules until he does it(I know because I checked with Digi).

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
5. He was still holding them after moving the planet to a yellow sun. and he was fighting the legion while holding them. Stop trying to demean the feat. doped
He LOST control of them while he was battling the Legion, and it's a lot easier to keep control over someone's mind than to take over someone's mind.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Really? Are New Gods BORN with complete knowledge of the full extent of their abilities now, or do they learn how to use them like everybody else? But since you brought up Thanos as an example, if Thanos from 10,000 years into the future came back to the past, would you automatically credit Thanos with his future selves feats?


I know that in the scan it said that his powers weakened over the millennium, which in my mind sounds like he's saying that they faded with time. I've never seen anything to suggest that he was weakened by Orion or anyone else, but I'm more than willing to take a look if you have any evidence to that effect.


No comment on what?


No we have perspective on his faded, and then amped up power. It's still inadmissible under forum rules until he does it(I know because I checked with Digi).


He LOST control of them while he was battling the Legion, and it's a lot easier to keep control over someone's mind than to take over someone's mind.

You are wrong. It's a lot easier to take control. Keeping control is Much harder. many beings have fought thier way out of being controlled. Also I dont' know why the arguing over GDS feats. Current DS has shown far superior power. Creating Laternate realiteis trumps anything GDS DS did.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You are wrong. It's a lot easier to take control. Keeping control is Much harder. many beings have fought thier way out of being controlled. Also I dont' know why the arguing over GDS feats. Current DS has shown far superior power. Creating Laternate realiteis trumps anything GDS DS did.
This is Pre ALE DS in this thread, not the "current" DS.

And if you think that it's easier to get control over someone's mind than keep control after you've already broken their will, then all I can say is that you're wrong.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
This is Pre ALE DS in this thread, not the "current" DS.

And if you think that it's easier to get control over someone's mind than keep control after you've already broken their will, then all I can say is that you're wrong.

Tell that to MM when he got control of BA and then lost it. Tell that to Dr. Destiny, The white martians, cassanda nova, xyz. Nuff said. Keeping control is much harder to do. And DS doesn't have the ALE. Where in the hell did pre Ale even come in?

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Tell that to MM when he got control of BA and then lost it. Tell that to Dr. Destiny, The white martians, cassanda nova, xyz. Nuff said. Keeping control is much harder to do. And DS doesn't have the ALE. Where in the hell did pre Ale even come in?
Really? I thought DS had the ALE now? If not, then Pre SUPPOSED ALE DS. And the Pre ALE thing was in the opening post, so it's always been "in".

And I'm not saying that people can't break out of mental domination, I'm saying that it's easier to keep control over someone after you've already broken their will and altered the make up of their mind than it was to take over their mind in the first place. I mean come on, that's just common sense.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
1. Your example was completely inapplicable. Darkseid is a new god, not a human. You bring up Thanos, or Odin, or someone comparable, then maybe you'd have a point. But Xavier and Darkseid aren't in the same league, and only one of them is immortal and a higher level being.

2. We do not know what caused his powers to wane, but we know it wasn't the dirt nap. It was because someone defeated him. And evidence points to it being Orion, since he's not around.

3. No comment. But it's still blatently obvious that GDS Darkseid was far weaker than his normal self.

4. He was a weakened version of the same character, and it was the same timeline. So we have a perspective on his true power.

5. He was still holding them after moving the planet to a yellow sun. and he was fighting the legion while holding them. Stop trying to demean the feat. doped i see all the new gods fans are teaming up once again so i have returned.

1 his example was fine and it proves that u cant count a feat until its in the past tense.
2. we dont know what casue his power to wane so to assume its time is fine and dandy as there is no other event and merely ur speculayting that caused ds to lose hid power.
3. its not obvious at all that gds was weaker he certainly was more powerufl than current ds who got his ass handed to him in apokolips now.

4. doesnt matter if its the same character or not and if it just happened without him stealing powers and what not it would be more credible but with him stealing powers its only relevamt to that ds.
5.hes not trying to demean ds but the point sitll remains that when he lost his army he retreated becua as we all know ds needs an army backing him.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You are wrong. It's a lot easier to take control. Keeping control is Much harder. many beings have fought thier way out of being controlled. Also I dont' know why the arguing over GDS feats. Current DS has shown far superior power. Creating Laternate realiteis trumps anything GDS DS did. there is an argument becuz gds feats dont count for his current character plain and simple.

quanchi112
Originally posted by darthgoober
Really? I thought DS had the ALE now? If not, then Pre SUPPOSED ALE DS. And the Pre ALE thing was in the opening post, so it's always been "in".

And I'm not saying that people can't break out of mental domination, I'm saying that it's easier to keep control over someone after you've already broken their will and altered the make up of their mind than it was to take over their mind in the first place. I mean come on, that's just common sense. thumb up

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Really? I thought DS had the ALE now? If not, then Pre SUPPOSED ALE DS. And the Pre ALE thing was in the opening post, so it's always been "in".

And I'm not saying that people can't break out of mental domination, I'm saying that it's easier to keep control over someone after you've already broken their will and altered the make up of their mind than it was to take over their mind in the first place. I mean come on, that's just common sense.

Then how come they were taken over so easily?

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then how come they were taken over so easily? i cant wait till countdown is over so i can read up on it and figure out what u have been slanting over to ds's side.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then how come they were taken over so easily?
Because they weren't equal to Pre Crisis Supes at the time. Until their planet got moved they weren't all that different than humans overall. And since there was only 3 billion of them, it means that DS taking control over them(while impressive) is no more impressive than any other telepath with enough power to mess with the heads of everyone on Earth. In fact since there's MORE people on Earth than there was on Daxam, anyone who dominates Earth has a better feat to their credit than DS has from the Daxamites.

quanchi112
Originally posted by darthgoober
Because they weren't equal to Pre Crisis Supes at the time. Until their planet got moved they weren't all that different than humans overall. And since there was only 3 billion of them, it means that DS taking control over them(while impressive) is no more impressive than any other telepath with enough power to mess with the heads of everyone on Earth. In fact since there's MORE people on Earth than there was on Daxam, anyone who dominates Earth has a better feat to their credit than DS has from the Daxamites. this makes a lot of sense here. very good points. this feat isnt all that impressive anymore. another feat taking a hit here. moves down a few notches. but it doesnt count anyways as it hasnt happened yet.





wink

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by quanchi112
this makes a lot of sense here. very good points. this feat isnt all that impressive anymore. another feat taking a hit here. moves down a few notches. but it doesnt count anyways as it hasnt happened yet.





wink

The feat actually is better. Becuz he took over them and held them as they got more powerful under a yellow sun. you FAIL.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The feat actually is better. Becuz he took over them and held them as they got more powerful under a yellow sun. you FAIL. he dominated no one special mentally in this sotry and lost as he always does. this feat doenst count and it isnt as impressive now that goober proved that point. any powerful telepath could do this. sorry but the feat isnt that impressive.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The feat actually is better. Becuz he took over them and held them as they got more powerful under a yellow sun. you FAIL.
Even if you were right about it being harder to sustain control over someone after you've broken their will and altered the way there mind works(which you're not), it still wouldn't be MORE impressive than most people think, because then he just did what everyone originally acted like....he dominated 3 billion PC Supes level beings(with no feats to their credit to suggest a high level of resistance to tp). But again, it's easier to sustain control over someone who's mind has been completely broken than to get control over the person in the first place.

quanchi112
yes 3 billion nobodys. no one who had any feats whatsoever in the future that hasnt happened yet. feat doesnt count anyways and if it did it doesnt carry as much weight.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Well if it's so easy to hold on to someone after they have been taken control of, then how come thor has broken lose, The jla has broken lose, hell no Tp in the history of comics has held on to any one forever. I am inclined to think that it's harder to keep control. The only person I know who can keep hold on beings indefinitely is Despero.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well if it's so easy to hold on to someone after they have been taken control of, then how come thor has broken lose, The jla has broken lose, hell no Tp in the history of comics has held on to any one forever. I am inclined to think that it's harder to keep control. The only person I know who can keep hold on beings indefinitely is Despero. prof x could do better. i feel onslaught could most def as well. sorry but this feat isnt that impressive.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well if it's so easy to hold on to someone after they have been taken control of, then how come thor has broken lose, The jla has broken lose, hell no Tp in the history of comics has held on to any one forever. I am inclined to think that it's harder to keep control. The only person I know who can keep hold on beings indefinitely is Despero.
Could it be that the heroes always break mental control that way there'll be another issue of the comic? Now there's a real mind bender for you...

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by darthgoober

No we have perspective on his faded, and then amped up power. It's still inadmissible under forum rules until he does it(I know because I checked with Digi).


Yeah.....screw Digi. stick out tongue And he's wrong. I'll take the opinions of Batdude, Galan, WD, Avalon, Estacado and Skeets over you and Digi. you guys plainly don't know DC if you think Thanos ever compares to Darkseid in terms of his personal power.

The GDS feats are admissable, as a measure of Darkseid's power. And his powers weren't amped, SINCE HE ACKNOWLEDGED HE WASN'T ANYWHERE NEAR HIS FULL POWER EVEN AFTER ABSORBING MORDRU AND THE CONTROLLER.

you think that 3 billion is nothing? What the f**k? Let's see anyone under skyfather pull that feat.

Quanchi: Onslaught could not control 3 billion Daxamites, especially under a yellow sun. Nor could Prof. X.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Yeah.....screw Digi. stick out tongue And he's wrong. I'll take the opinions of Batdude, Galan, WD, Avalon, Estacado and Skeets over you and Digi. you guys plainly don't know DC if you think Thanos ever compares to Darkseid in terms of his personal power.

The GDS feats are admissable, as a measure of Darkseid's power. And his powers weren't amped, SINCE HE ACKNOWLEDGED HE WASN'T ANYWHERE NEAR HIS FULL POWER EVEN AFTER ABSORBING MORDRU AND THE CONTROLLER.

you think that 3 billion is nothing? What the f**k? Let's see anyone under skyfather pull that feat.

Quanchi: Onslaught could not control 3 billion Daxamites, especially under a yellow sun. Nor could Prof. X. nope its just a dc fanatic gets mad when people say thanos whoops his ass when he does. superman whoops his ass doomsday whoops his ass.

lookey here scanss to back up my fact based logic.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/ApokolipsNowPage31.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/009-SupermanBatman013Rembrandt-DCP.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/DoomsdayHunterPrey1pg37.jpg

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A VILLAIN LOOK SO HELPLESS AND SCARED LIKE THIS BEFORE.

quanchi112
oh and onslaught wouldnt have lost them. hes more of a telepath than ds will ever be, and gds doesnt count becuz it hasnt happened yet.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Yeah.....screw Digi. stick out tongue And he's wrong. I'll take the opinions of Batdude, Galan, WD, Avalon, Estacado and Skeets over you and Digi. you guys plainly don't know DC if you think Thanos ever compares to Darkseid in terms of his personal power.

The GDS feats are admissable, as a measure of Darkseid's power. And his powers weren't amped, SINCE HE ACKNOWLEDGED HE WASN'T ANYWHERE NEAR HIS FULL POWER EVEN AFTER ABSORBING MORDRU AND THE CONTROLLER.
You don't seem to get it Trick, the only question is whether or not the GDS falls under the heading of an alternate version by forum rules and in regards to what is or isn't against forum rules, I'll take the word of a mod over the word of a member ANY day.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
you think that 3 billion is nothing? What the f**k? Let's see anyone under skyfather pull that feat.

I never said it was nothing(in fact I said it was impressive), I just said it wasn't as impressive as someone doing the same thing to the planet Earth due to Earth having a higher population.

llagrok
Tp, Professor x can't do it because of Magneto.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by llagrok
Tp, Professor x can't do it because of Magneto.

Wouldnt' he still need cerebro to accomplish the feat?

quanchi112
Originally posted by darthgoober
You don't seem to get it Trick, the only question is whether or not the GDS falls under the heading of an alternate version by forum rules and in regards to what is or isn't against forum rules, I'll take the word of a mod over the word of a member ANY day.


I never said it was nothing(in fact I said it was impressive), I just said it wasn't as impressive as someone doing the same thing to the planet Earth due to Earth having a higher population. whos word would i take i mod or a dc fanatic who loves ds. hmmmmmmmmmm

a mod?

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
You can't impartially hold one standard true for DS and then hold everyone else to a different standard. I mean come on, either we're all drinking from the same water fountain or not...Lmao, like we really can compare two different character's, with DIFFERENT powersets. roll eyes (sarcastic)



Originally posted by darthgoober http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8906/lshv229437va9.th.jpg

His powers waned OVER THE MILLENNIUM, that means that they faded with time.Nah really. That doesn't SPECIFICALLY state that Ds was weakened by age. His power could of wanned by anything, him lossing it by age, is just plain RIDICULOUS! Seeing how he's....immortal.


Originally posted by darthgoober
Good then we won't be hearing that DS's current incarnation defeated his future self from the GDS in combat anymore... I suppose.


Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't care if it's the same character or not, it's his FUTURE self which means that DS's current incarnation doesn't have the feats to his credit. I understand why it seems like it SHOULD be considered valid because of the complex nature of the New Gods, that's why I asked Digi whether or not the GDS would qualify as being an alternate version under forum rules. And you know what, it does. That means that the feats are inadmissible to DS's current incarnation. Here's the problem, Digi's ruling is more of an opinion than a actual rule. Just because it came from a mod's mouth, doesn't make it fact. Secondly, Digi's well, retired if I'm not mistaken. Thirdly, the character is STILL the same person, and he was supposed to be weaker than his 20th centurary self. So how can you not give him credit, for those feats? We know the Gds existed, it's no illusion just a different timeline. People effected by the alterization of time, will not remeber the experiance. When the outcome of time is changed, it merely reshapes what already exist. Here's the challenge, find some context that says his powerset was somehow different, then you maybe on to something.

Originally posted by darthgoober
BTW, when I looked through the GDS again to find that scan of him stating that his powers waned over time I noticed something interesting. When DS took control of Daxam, the planet was orbiting a red sun. That means that he NEVER took control over 3 billion Pre Crisis Superman level beings in that arc, he took control over 3 billion HUMAN level beings because none of them had ANY powers until DS transported the planet so that it would orbit a yellow sun(which is what bumped them up to Pre Crisis Supes level). Hmmm, maybe your right. Thing is, HE HELD CONTROL OF THEM. Say what you want, but very few can replicate that feat.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
Lmao, like we really can compare two different character's, with DIFFERENT powersets. roll eyes (sarcastic)



Nah really. That doesn't SPECIFICALLY state that Ds was weakened by age. His power could of wanned by anything, him lossing it by age, is just plain RIDICULOUS! Seeing how he's....immortal.


I suppose.


Here's the problem, Digi's ruling is more of an opinion than a actual rule. Just because it came from a mod's mouth, doesn't make it fact. Secondly, Digi's well, retired if I'm not mistaken. Thirdly, the character is STILL the same person, and he was supposed to be weaker than his 20th centurary self. So how can you not give him credit, for those feats? We know the Gds existed, it's no illusion just a different timeline. People effected by the alterization of time, will not remeber the experiance. When the outcome of time is changed, it merely reshapes what already exist. Here's the challenge, find some context that says his powerset was somehow different, then you maybe on to something.

Hmmm, maybe your right. Thing is, HE HELD CONTROL OF THEM. Say what you want, but very few can replicate that feat. ask and ye shall receive.

here ur source saying it altered his abilities.

In the Great Darkness Saga, Darkseid survived into the 30th century. Having been forgotten by almost everyone, he defeated the era's two most powerful villains (Mordru and the Time Trapper) and absorbed their powers, subsequently using those abilities to enslave the entire population of the planet Daxam!!!!!!!!

alternate and it hasnt happened yet means it doesnt count.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
Lmao, like we really can compare two different character's, with DIFFERENT powersets. roll eyes (sarcastic)
I'm not comparing the characters, I'm comparing the standard that's being applied to DS. Either the standard is the same, or you're playing favorites one way or the other.



Originally posted by starking
Nah really. That doesn't SPECIFICALLY state that Ds was weakened by age. His power could of wanned by anything, him lossing it by age, is just plain RIDICULOUS! Seeing how he's....immortal.
They didn't slap you across the face with a fish to get their point across, but the phrase My powers have waned over the Millennium seems to be a pretty clear indication IMO. Again if we hold the same standard to a different character(we'll use Silver Surfer) and he says "My control over the Power Cosmic has grown weaker over the years" what does that say to you? And again, Runner was immortal(and billions of years old) and the Time Gem still took him out.

Originally posted by starking
I suppose.
Cool.

Originally posted by starking
Here's the problem, Digi's ruling is more of an opinion than a actual rule. Just because it came from a mod's mouth, doesn't make it fact. Secondly, Digi's well, retired if I'm not mistaken. Thirdly, the character is STILL the same person, and he was supposed to be weaker than his 20th centurary self. So how can you not give him credit, for those feats? We know the Gds existed, it's no illusion just a different timeline. People effected by the alterization of time, will not remeber the experiance. When the outcome of time is changed, it merely reshapes what already exist. Here's the challenge, find some context that says his powerset was somehow different, then you maybe on to something.

No Digi's ruling is nothing more than clarification of Forum policy. That means that all he was doing was stating whether or not a specific arc fell under the heading of an "Alternate Version". That's aways been where confusion came into play, because people didn't KNOW whether or not it fell under that heading, but now we do. If we don't trust the mods to explain what is or is not against the rules, then who should we turn to?

Originally posted by starking
Hmmm, maybe your right. Thing is, HE HELD CONTROL OF THEM. Say what you want, but very few can replicate that feat.
Didn't say it wasn't impressive, just that it wasn't as impressive as people have been saying.

starking
Originally posted by quanchi112
ask and ye shall receive.

here ur source saying it altered his abilities.

In the Great Darkness Saga, Darkseid survived into the 30th century. Having been forgotten by almost everyone, he defeated the era's two most powerful villains (Mordru and the Time Trapper) and absorbed their powers, subsequently using those abilities to enslave the entire population of the planet Daxam!!!!!!!!

alternate and it hasnt happened yet means it doesnt count. Wow, copying and pasting from Wikipedia again. How predictable, anyone with reading comprhesion skills, can tell that means Seid did those feats, when he absorbed their power(and he wasn't even at his peak). You can't say Ds is incapable of those feats, because we've seen him do similar outside of that story. Oh and Quan, stop responding to me, your a joke, a hypocrite, and a exaggerator. Your not worthy of my time and effort.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
Wow, copying and pasting from Wikipedia again. How predictable, anyone with reading comprhesion skills, can tell that means Seid did those feats, when he absorbed their power(and he wasn't even at his peak). You can't say Ds is incapable of those feats, because we've seen him do similar outside of that story. Oh and Quan, stop responding to me, your a joke, a hypocrite, and a exaggerator. Your not worthy of my time and effort. laughing
oh starking i just showed u up. dont be angry im here arguing, it make perfect sense that if u abosrb all these powers and especially an abstract with no end in his lifespan that u will rdically alter ur own powers. wiki agrees becuz its common sense. and ur insults have no effect on me.


laughing

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not comparing the characters, I'm comparing the standard that's being applied to DS. Either the standard is the same, or you're playing favorites one way or the other.Their still different powersets. That's like comparing Luke Cage to Spider-man, different abilities, etc.




Originally posted by darthgoober
They didn't slap you across the face with a fish to get their point across, but the phrase My powers have waned over the Millennium seems to be a pretty clear indication IMO. Again if we hold the same standard to a different character(we'll use Silver Surfer) and he says "My control over the Power Cosmic has grown weaker over the years" what does that say to you? And again, Runner was immortal(and billions of years old) and the Time Gem still took him out. But that could still mean anything. Let's say Ds was weakend by some kind of battle, that left him old and puny. The story didn't make clear enough, so I simply can't buy that ideal. Ds or any New God, shouldn't age to a point that they're basically dying. But I do have to give it Seid, even in that state he was ablte to take out Mordru and Time Trapper.


Originally posted by darthgoober
Cool. cool



Originally posted by darthgoober
No Digi's ruling is nothing more than clarification of Forum policy. That means that all he was doing was stating whether or not a specific arc fell under the heading of an "Alternate Version". That's aways been where confusion came into play, because people didn't KNOW whether or not it fell under that heading, but now we do. If we don't trust the mods to explain what is or is not against the rules, then who should we turn to? Here's the issue with that, that's not even in the forum rules. Sure the mods are great in all, but their opinion isn't always the most logical. They're humans to, and they are bound to make mistakes. To let you know, Gds Seid isn't so much an alternate version, but him living through a different setting. Same character with a different outcome. The Gds Seid and Foundations Seid, can't co-exist for both of them are within the SAME universe. Take for example, if you kill yourself in tha past, you'll cease to exist in the future. Meaning their logical has to be one of you, seeing how another can't remain in existance, without the presence of your younger self.


Originally posted by darthgoober
Didn't say it wasn't impressive, just that it wasn't as impressive as people have been saying. I think it is, if they could of broke free of their control, then why didn't they simply do it? The fact that he could hold them under his bidding, while weakened, is a testament to his great power.

RUNMAN
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Actually the writer's of both companies have agreed that Thanos is a pale comparison to DS. Fail. Try again. DS was hodling his own against Thor and Silver Surfer, WHile Thanos was getting rocked by CM, and WW and GL.

This is obviously an ignorant post . When did both companies agree that thanos is a pale comparison of DS? FYI, Thanos and Darkseid are both the creations of Jack Kirby...

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by RUNMAN
This is obviously an ignorant post . When did both companies agree that thanos is a pale comparison of DS? FYI, Thanos and Darkseid are both the creations of Jack Kirby...

You didn't read marvel vs. DC did you? You would also know that Galactus is a kirby creation and kirby created DS and Galactus as Equals.

starking
Originally posted by quanchi112
laughing
oh starking i just showed u up. dont be angry im here arguing, it make perfect sense that if u abosrb all these powers and especially an abstract with no end in his lifespan that u will rdically alter ur own powers. wiki agrees becuz its common sense. and ur insults have no effect on me.


laughing But he wasn't at full power...and we've seen him display those abilities outside of Gds. So does that make sense to you? Btw, didn't I tell you to stay out of my business? Do that and want insult, for your trying to force your shit down my throat when I'm telling you to back off. I'll debate with you, when I call you out. So please SHUT UP! Your annoying the hell out of me.

starking
Originally posted by RUNMAN
This is obviously an ignorant post . When did both companies agree that thanos is a pale comparison of DS? FYI, Thanos and Darkseid are both the creations of Jack Kirby... laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing
Yes and Starlin created Galactus. laughing

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by starking
But he wasn't at ull power...and we've seen him display those abilities outside of Gds. So does that make sense to you? Btw, didn't I tell you to stay out of my business? Do that and want insult, for your trying to force your shit down my throat when I'm telling you to back off. I'll debate with you, when I call you out. So please SHUT UP! Your annoying the hell out of me.
have you been paying attention to how many times i have owned him and he refuses to relent? He is the Joker to my batman. The circe to my wonder woman. The republican to my gayness. LMAO. laughing

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
Their still different powersets. That's like comparing Luke Cage to Spider-man, different abilities, etc.
Not really since DS's major feats in the GDS were psionic in nature(like advanced tk or telepathy) and Xavier's powers are ALSO psionic in nature it seems to be a pretty good comparison.




Originally posted by starking
But that could still mean anything. Let's say Ds was weakend by some kind of battle, that left him old and puny. The story didn't make clear enough, so I simply can't buy that ideal. Ds or any New God, shouldn't age to a point that they're basically dying. But I do have to give it Seid, even in that state he was ablte to take out Mordru and Time Trapper.
Again you're assuming with NOTHING to support it. I'll admit that the scan I showed isn't cut and dry, but it lends more credit to my argument than anything that you've showed otherwise. And again, the Runner is immortal also, fat load of good it did him....



Originally posted by starking
Here's the issue with that, that's not even in the forum rules. Sure the mods are great in all, but their opinion isn't always the most logical. They're humans to, and they are bound to make mistakes. To let you know, Gds Seid isn't so much an alternate version, but him living through a different setting. Same character with a different outcome. The Gds Seid and Foundations Seid, can't co-exist for both of them are within the SAME universe. Take for example, if you kill yourself in tha past, you'll cease to exist in the future. Meaning their logical has to be one of you, seeing how another can't remain in existance, without the presence of your younger self.


It IS covered in the forum rules, it's just not expanded upon in any real detail. My question to Digi was whether or not alternate time lines like the GDS fall under the heading of non cannon sources the same way that alternate universes do, and the answer to the question was yes.

Originally posted by starking
I think it is, if they could of broke free of their control, then why didn't they simply do it? The fact that he could hold them under his bidding, while weakened, is a testament to his great power.
A better question would be, if he could simultaneously take mental control over 3 billion Superman level beings, why didn't he just regain control after he lost it instead of running away because they were coming?

starking
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
have you been paying attention to how many times i have owned him and he refuses to relent? He is the Joker to my batman. The circe to my wonder woman. The republican to my gayness. LMAO. laughing Maybe he's psychotic....and he has some kinda bizzare for fetish, for pissing people off. laughing

RUNMAN
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You didn't read marvel vs. DC did you? You would also know that Galactus is a kirby creation and kirby created DS and Galactus as Equals.

Yawn. Anyway, you should be writing for Variety... All the rumors, gossip s and speculations without even an iota of evidence to support your claim...

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Not really since DS's major feats in the GDS were psionic in nature(like advanced tk or telepathy) and Xavier's powers are ALSO psionic in nature it seems to be a pretty good comparison.





Again you're assuming with NOTHING to support it. I'll admit that the scan I showed isn't cut and dry, but it lends more credit to my argument than anything that you've showed otherwise. And again, the Runner is immortal also, fat load of good it did him....






It IS covered in the forum rules, it's just not expanded upon in any real detail. My question to Digi was whether or not alternate time lines like the GDS fall under the heading of non cannon sources the same way that alternate universes do, and the answer to the question was yes.


A better question would be, if he could simultaneously dominate 3 billion Superman level beings, why didn't he just regain control after he lost it instead of running away because they were coming?
wasnt' he weakend from the strain of the fight? is'nt that why he left? And are you telling me that becuz orion reset the universe without DS in it, it never happened? even tho the current jla was there and remember the event?

RUNMAN
Originally posted by starking
laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing
Yes and Starlin created Galactus. laughing

Seems you misinterpreted the post as per usual...

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by RUNMAN
Yawn. Anyway, you should be writing for Variety... All the rumors, gossip s and speculations without even an iota of evidence to support your claim...

LOL at you. you dindt' even know that thanos was a homage to DS created by JS. Not JK.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
wasnt' he weakend from the strain of the fight? is'nt that why he left? And are you telling me that becuz orion reset the universe without DS in it, it never happened? even tho the current jla was there and remember the event?
I honestly don't remember much involving his battle with the Legion and already packed away my Legion CD that has all the issues, so I don't know about the tp thing.

But no I wasn't talking about Orion reseting the universe at all, it's invalid because it's DS from 10,000 years in the future. Until DS actually experiences all of that, it's invalid.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
I honestly don't remember much involving his battle with the Legion and already packed away my Legion CD that has all the issues, so I don't know about the tp thing.

But no I wasn't talking about Orion reseting the universe at all, it's invalid because it's DS from 10,000 years in the future. Until DS actually experiences all of that, it's invalid.
I actually dont' care about GDS DS. his current feats are better.

he used small reality manip agaisnt the Legion in GDS

in 7 Soldiers he creates alternate universes and turns all of the new gods into powerless human beings.

in GDS he mind controls 3 billion daxamites.

In 7 soldiers he mind controls and wipes the minds of ALL of the New Gods, all of them even hf.


In GDS he moves planets with TK.

in Seven soldiers he maintains a version of earth he has created inside a freaking black hole.


GDS DS is indeed far weaker than his younger self.

RUNMAN
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
LOL at you. you dindt' even know that thanos was a homage to DS created by JS. Not JK.

If you want to be specific about it then your statement is true. I wouldn't want to further complicate your thoughts with Marvel affairs but don't you think JK approved of this creation since the incepion of Thanos was made when JK was already back at Marvel's fold? I'm sorry, just thought I didn't have to explain everything in detail since you are quite the comics connoiseur as you claim to be.

Anyway, you still have not made a legitimate response as to your claim that both companies agree...

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I actually dont' care about GDS DS. his current feats are better.
Cool then I won't be hearing about it from you anymore...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
in 7 Soldiers he creates alternate universes and turns all of the new gods into powerless human beings.


In 7 soldiers he mind controls and wipes the minds of ALL of the New Gods, all of them even hf.

in Seven soldiers he maintains a version of earth he has created inside a freaking black hole.

That's nice, but this thread is Pre ALE(or whatever they THOUGHT was the ALE) Darkseid. That means that 7 Soldiers is irrelevant to this thread also. This is just "Classic" DS...


In GDS he moves planets with TK.
When did he use tk to move a planet in that arc anyway? Cause the only planet I saw him move was Daxam, and he seemed to be using the Omega for that not tk(hence the beams shooting out of his eyes and surrounding the planet during it's move).

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
Not really since DS's major feats in the GDS were psionic in nature(like advanced tk or telepathy) and Xavier's powers are ALSO psionic in nature it seems to be a pretty good comparison. Xavier is a mortal. Ds is a god and almost abstract, in his role in the universe. Their powers for surely work differently.





Originally posted by darthgoober
Again you're assuming with NOTHING to support it. I'll admit that the scan I showed isn't cut and dry, but it lends more credit to my argument than anything that you've showed otherwise. And again, the Runner is immortal also, fat load of good it did him.... Not really, Ds was basically dying in that timeline. Someone of his importance can't fade away so easily. He can only die by the hands of Orion, which is why I believe he was weakened by something other than age.






Originally posted by darthgoober
It IS covered in the forum rules, it's just not expanded upon in any real detail. My question to Digi was whether or not alternate time lines like the GDS fall under the heading of non cannon sources the same way that alternate universes do, and the answer to the question was yes. Again with this.... That's not OFFICIALY covered in the forum rules. I feel that it is just a opinion and nothing more. I also feel that it's just to illogical to, to accept as fact. Alternate universes and alternate timelines are NOT the samething. One is a seperate universe, the other is a different history in that the other one was changed, by screwing with the course of time. Take for example, you have a car. Then you replace the parts and change it's appearance. Same car, different look. That's how a alternate timeline/history is. Samething, only with different outcomes.


Originally posted by darthgoober
A better question would be, if he could simultaneousy dominate 3 billion Superman level beings, why didn't he just regain control after he lost it instead of running away because they were coming? One word my friend, HIGHFATHER! If it were not for his interference, I believe the Losh would've lost. He played a big part in that story, in that he turned the tide in their favor.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by RUNMAN
If you want to be specific about it then your statement is true. I wouldn't want to further complicate your thoughts with Marvel affairs but don't you think JK approved of this creation since the incepion of Thanos was made when JK was already back at Marvel's fold? I'm sorry, just thought I didn't have to explain everything in detail since you are quite the comics connoiseur as you claim to be.

Anyway, you still have not made a legitimate response as to your claim that both companies agree...

marvel vs DC was published by both and approved by both. the only fights and dialogue affected by fan vote where the 5. the others all were agreed upon by the writers and approved by the editors. thanks. have a good day ok.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Cool then I won't be hearing about it from you anymore...


That's nice, but this thread is Pre ALE(or whatever they THOUGHT was the ALE) Darkseid. That means that 7 Soldiers is irrelevant to this thread also. This is just "Classic" DS...


In GDS he moves planets with TK.
When did he use tk to move a planet in that arc anyway? Cause the only planet I saw him move was Daxam, and he seemed to be using the Omega for that not tk(hence the beams shooting out of his eyes and surrounding the planet during it's move).

You do know that the Omega isn't just energy. it's anything he wants it to be.

starking
I don't think Seven Soldiers Ds had the Ale, for in Firestorm he kidnapped Martin Stein to gain it from him.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by starking
I don't think Seven Soldiers Ds had the Ale, for in Firestorm he kidnapped Martin Stein to gain it from him.

I been saying this forever. mr. miracle says in the firestorm arc that Ds doesn't have the ale.

RUNMAN
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
marvel vs DC was published by both and approved by both. the only fights and dialogue affected by fan vote where the 5. the others all were agreed upon by the writers and approved by the editors. thanks. have a good day ok.

Which doesn't mean jack (no pun intended) at all to me... Did DS beat Thanos? No.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
Xavier is a mortal. Ds is a god and almost abstract, in his role in the universe. Their powers for surely work differently.
That is NOT what you said. You wanted an example of someone with a similar power set and Xavier fills the bill as far as DS's major tp feats. So are they drinking from the same water fountain or is DS a "special" case that deserves more consideration than every other character that's been established?





Originally posted by starking
Again with this.... That's not OFFICIALY covered in the forum rules. I feel that it is just a opinion and nothing more. I also feel that it's just to illogical to, to accept as fact. Alternate universes and alternate timelines are NOT the samething. One is a seperate universe, the other is a different history in that the other one was changed, by screwing with the course of time. Take for example, you have a car. Then you replace the parts and change it's appearance. Same car, different look. That's how a alternate timeline/history is. Samething, only with different outcomes.
It's a call on the specifics of a forum rule, and IMO the Mods outrank you in making that call.


Originally posted by starking
One word my friend, HIGHFATHER! If it were not for his interference, I believe the Losh would've lost. He played a big part in that story, in that he turned the tide in their favor.
I know that Highfather turned the tide, in fact I seem to remember him giving Supes and Supergirl the ability to fight under a red sun and the two of them had him on the run for a bit. But Highfather wasn't around when DS fled(at least to my memory, I could be wrong about that one) and DS still didn't retake control of the Daxamite's, nor did he take control of the Legion Members who were present, so taking control of a metahuman(or something similar) must be more difficult than taking control of a powerless Daxamite.

starking
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I been saying this forever. mr. miracle says in the firestorm arc that Ds doesn't have the ale. What's really impressive about that feat, is it was just an avatar that did all of that. If Ds really had the Ale, then why didn't he just conquer the universe? More proof, that he did that under his own power.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by RUNMAN
Which doesn't mean jack (no pun intended) at all to me... Did DS beat Thanos? No.

So now that I have given you where I got my statement from all of a sudden it doesn't mean jack, when at first you were saying that I was misinformed? Thanos was getting knocked around by his assailants while DS was laughing off the blast of Thor, Surfer and Storm. Thanos barely was holding his own against GL, WW, and CM, while DS was commenting on how he was going to destroy Thor, but he liked him. You tell me who was the better? Especially since DS tells thanos he is a PALE imitation.

TricksterPriest
We'll find out soon enough who is better. Goober challenged me to a duel in the arena. I'm taking Darkseid, he's got Thanos.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So now that I have given you where I got my statement from all of a sudden it doesn't mean jack, when at first you were saying that I was misinformed? Thanos was getting knocked around by his assailants while DS was laughing off the blast of Thor, Surfer and Storm. Thanos barely was holding his own against GL, WW, and CM, while DS was commenting on how he was going to destroy Thor, but he liked him. You tell me who was the better? Especially since DS tells thanos he is a PALE imitation.
DS says A LOT of things, but him just saying something doesn't really mean much(unless you're of the belief that he almost DIED in Hunter/Prey).

RUNMAN
Huh? When did you present a sensible argument? It doesn't mean jack because it was not a fight between thanos and darkseid. All those statements and events are your interpretation and does not quantify or even qualify what would indeed happen if both Thanos and Darkseid fought.

An argument for your thought: "Thanos has handled the likes Of The Silver Surfer, Thor, Thing, has shown he can hang with a being named Tyrant, a guy who is near Galactus league. Thanos was taking blasts from that guy - and giving it right back. He held his own against ODIN of all people - a being who has shaken the GALAXY with his power - and got up for more. He took a hit from Magnus when he had 5 of the infinity gems, and was nearly god. In fact, the only person in his entire existence to truly defeat him, is Thor. Thor, who he has also laid low, and it was even hinted he didn't give his all in that fight.

Darkseid was laid out in 2 blows from Doonsday. Wolverine could have taken what Doomsday dished out to him. For real. He blased the Surfer with his overhyped "omega beams" and he was right back up. Orion kicked his ass quite convincingly, Superman recently dropped hammers down on him, and his beams couldn't even get thru kevlar if I remember correctly.

Thanos controls his body on a molecular level, is a better figher than Darkseid, more durable, and in a fight - Thanos would crush him."

Not my opinion but from a friend who posts in another site.

RUNMAN
"Darksied couldn't even kill Anarky (a 16 year old kid with Triple Layerd Kevlar) who later stole his powers."

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by RUNMAN
Huh? When did you present a sensible argument? It doesn't mean jack because it was not a fight between thanos and darkseid. All those statements and events are your interpretation and does not quantify or even qualify what would indeed happen if both Thanos and Darkseid fought.

An argument for your thought: "Thanos has handled the likes Of The Silver Surfer, Thor, Thing, has shown he can hang with a being named Tyrant, a guy who is near Galactus league. Thanos was taking blasts from that guy - and giving it right back. He held his own against ODIN of all people - a being who has shaken the GALAXY with his power - and got up for more. He took a hit from Magnus when he had 5 of the infinity gems, and was nearly god. In fact, the only person in his entire existence to truly defeat him, is Thor. Thor, who he has also laid low, and it was even hinted he didn't give his all in that fight.

Darkseid was laid out in 2 blows from Doonsday. Wolverine could have taken what Doomsday dished out to him. For real. He blased the Surfer with his overhyped "omega beams" and he was right back up. Orion kicked his ass quite convincingly, Superman recently dropped hammers down on him, and his beams couldn't even get thru kevlar if I remember correctly.

Thanos controls his body on a molecular level, is a better figher than Darkseid, more durable, and in a fight - Thanos would crush him."

Not my opinion but from a friend who posts in another site.

your freind from another site obviously doesn't recognize that DS was laid out by a doomsday who was powered up by DS own omega beams, Who wasn't ever attacked with the OE, who pwned a guardian. Try that one again.

Superman dropped hammers on current reality creating, top tier pwning DS? when did he do this? Show me a scan?

Thanos would crush DS? Really? Since when is thanos essential to the universe? What's to stop him from being erased? Or turned into an infant. not a damned thing.

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
That is NOT what you said. You wanted an example of someone with a similar power set and Xavier fills the bill as far as DS's major tp feats. So are they drinking from the same water fountain or is DS a "special" case that deserves more consideration than every other character that's been established? Umm, when did I ask for an example.no expression
Xavier are on different levels when it comes to tp. Of course would deserve more "consideration", he's a different type of character, that operates on a much higher level. That's like comparing Skeletor to Odin, just because both of them can project energy. Their powers don't work the same, thus the comparison is irrelevent.






Originally posted by darthgoober
It's a call on the specifics of a forum rule, and IMO the Mods outrank you in making that call. Believe what you want, but I don't take someones word as fact, just because they "outrank me". Though I respect Digi's opinion, I and many others refuse to believe it. Digimark has mod powers, but that doesn't make him all knowing.



Originally posted by darthgoober
I know that Highfather turned the tide, in fact I seem to remember him giving Supes and Supergirl the ability to fight under a red sun and the two of them had him on the run for a bit. But Highfather wasn't around when DS fled(at least to my memory, I could be wrong about that one) and DS still didn't retake control of the Daxamite's, nor did he take control of the Legion Members who were present, so taking control of a metahuman(or something similar) must be more difficult than taking control of a powerless Daxamite. This is how it goes, Highfather's interference broke Ds's control over the Daxamites. Who knows what would've happened if wasn't in the mix. And keeping that many Daxamites under his control, is to impressive no matter how you look at it. If they could've resisted his tp, then why didn't they do it earlier?

RUNMAN
The above arguments I posted had bad spelling and grammar yet quite an argument...

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Since when is thanos essential to the universe? What's to stop him from being erased? Or turned into an infant. not a damned thing.
Forum myth, completely irrelevant.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by RUNMAN
"Darksied couldn't even kill Anarky (a 16 year old kid with Triple Layerd Kevlar) who later stole his powers."

is this current DS who creates realities in black holes, sustains planets inside of them, is able to even pwn death's Avatar and totally change it, reaches into the firestorm matrix? is this the DS you speak of, or some old version who was likely an avatar.

RUNMAN
Originally posted by RUNMAN
"Darksied couldn't even kill Anarky (a 16 year old kid with Triple Layerd Kevlar) who later stole his powers."

RUNMAN
I don't know. You're the expert...

starking
Originally posted by RUNMAN
That was an avatar.no expression

RUNMAN
Ok guys. I'll leave you to your own devices. Just mixing it up a bit. Haven't posted in a long while. Thanks for participating.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by RUNMAN
Ok guys. I'll leave you to your own devices. Just mixing it up a bit. Haven't posted in a long while. Thanks for participating.
just making sure we go by the current version of DS, which some say is an avatar, I do not know this, but maybe so. As long as we talk about Current DS.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
Umm, when did I ask for an example.no expression
Xavier are on different levels when it comes to tp. Of course would deserve more "consideration", he's a different type of character, that operates on a much higher level. That's like comparing Skeletor to Odin, just because both of them can project energy. Their powers don't work the same, thus the comparison is irrelevent.
Yeah that's my bad because it was actually Trickster who asked for an example, you just got hung up on the Power Set thing. But never the less, it's comparing the EXACT same power(telepathy) from two different characters. Unless DS was born as an adult with full knowledge of ALL his powers and never had to practice or learn a damn thing, a future version of himself with 10,000 years of additional experience being able to do something is no reflection on his current incarnation unless you're willing to apply the same standard to everyone with the same power in question.






Originally posted by starking
Believe what you want, but I don't take someones word as fact, just because they "outrank me". Though I respect Digi's opinion, I and many others refuse to believe it. Digimark has mod powers, but that doesn't make him all knowing.
He doesn't have to be all knowing for his call on the forum rules to be valid. Should I ask you or one of the other posters whether or not something constitutes bashing/flaming/spamming now, or is a mod's opinion on the matter a better way to go?



Originally posted by starking
This is how it goes, Highfather's interference broke Ds's control over the Daxamites. Who knows what would've happened if wasn't in the mix. And keeping that many Daxamites under his control, is to impressive no matter how you look at it. If they could've resisted his tp, then why didn't they do it earlier?
As I said before it is impressive, but nothing beyond some of the tp feats of other high level psychics, because they weren't Superman level beings when he took control, and if he could have reestablished control he would have.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah that's my bad because it was actually Trickster who asked for an example, you just got hung up on the Power Set thing. But never the less, it's comparing the EXACT same power(telepathy) from two different characters. Unless DS was born as an adult with full knowledge of ALL his powers and never had to practice or learn a damn thing, a future version of himself with 10,000 years of additional experience being able to do something is no reflection on his current incarnation unless you're willing to apply the same standard to everyone with the same power in question.







He doesn't have to be all knowing for his call on the forum rules to be valid. Should I ask you or one of the other posters whether or not something constitutes bashing/flaming/spamming now, or is a mod's opinion on the matter a better way to go?




As I said before it is impressive, but nothing beyond some of the tp feats of other high level psychics, because they weren't Superman level beings when he took control, and if he could have reestablished control he would have.

Now how in the world was he going to reestablish control with all of them, the LSH, and HF on his tail? In a weakened state?

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah that's my bad because it was actually Trickster who asked for an example, you just got hung up on the Power Set thing. But never the less, it's comparing the EXACT same power(telepathy) from two different characters. Unless DS was born as an adult with full knowledge of ALL his powers and never had to practice or learn a damn thing, a future version of himself with 10,000 years of additional experience being able to do something is no reflection on his current incarnation unless you're willing to apply the same standard to everyone with the same power in question. The way a certain character's power works, doesn't aply to all. Experiance? Ds isn't that type o character, that has to "practice" or "improve" his abilities, through experiance. This NEVER, NEVER, EVER, been shown on panel. It's very pointless to argue over it, there is NO context that supports that theory. Nada! He's skyfather for godsakes, he should have full skill over his power. That's like saying Galactus in a certain point of time, should have better use of his cosmic power. Ds is a god, and gods tend to be naturally skilled.







Originally posted by darthgoober
He doesn't have to be all knowing for his call on the forum rules to be valid. Should I ask you or one of the other posters whether or not something constitutes bashing/flaming/spamming now, or is a mod's opinion on the matter a better way to go?I can agree with many of the forum rules, because they're fair standards to debate under. I can agree with pis/cis, bloodlust, and no crossovers, because the settings in comics tend to be shakey. However I can't agree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, just because a mod says so. The reason me and you follow the forum rules, is because they are logical points that make a debate a little more realistic. I disagree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, because in my eyes, I see that as illogical. The space time continuum is real, and it really does work that way. To say something is unusable, only because the mod said so, doesn't make it true. What if a mod told you we couldn't use real world examples in a debate? Would you agree with that?




Originally posted by darthgoober
As I said before it is impressive, but nothing beyond some of the tp feats of other high level psychics, because they weren't Superman level beings when he took control, and if he could have reestablished control he would have. Wel my take on that is, the Daxamites could've been controlled even without the presence of the red sun. If they never resisted the tp, then I don't see how they could do so, if he was directly effecting them.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
The way a certain character's power works, doesn't aply to all. Experiance? Ds isn't that type o character, that has to "practice" or "improve" his abilities, through experiance. This NEVER, NEVER, EVER, been shown on panel. It's very pointless to argue over it, there is NO context that supports that theory. Nada! He's skyfather for godsakes, he should have full skill over his power. That's like saying Galactus in a certain point of time, should have better use of his cosmic power. Ds is a god, and gods tend to be naturally skilled.







I can agree with many of the forum rules, because they're fair standards to debate under. I can agree with pis/cis, bloodlust, and no crossovers, because the settings in comics tend to be shakey. However I can't agree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, just because a mod says so. The reason me and you follow the forum rules, is because they are logical points that make a debate a little more realistic. I disagree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, because in my eyes, I see that as illogical. The space time continuum is real, and it really does work that way. To say something is unusable, only because the mod said so, doesn't make it true. What if a mod told you we couldn't use real world examples in a debate? Would you agree with that?




Wel my take on that is, the Daxamites could've been controlled even without the presence of the red sun. If they never resisted the tp, then I don't see how they could do so, if he was directly effecting them. well there are rules here right? and people call pis every five seconds right? who is the judge and jury on pis? no one. so if u want to honor kmc rules then u repsect ewhat u can use on these forums about ds feats.

case closed. u cant count a feat unless u do it. how is this so hard. ds hanst done it yet and wont. case closed.

starking
Originally posted by quanchi112
well there are rules here right? and people call pis every five seconds right? who is the judge and jury on pis? no one. so if u want to honor kmc rules then u repsect ewhat u can use on these forums about ds feats.

case closed. u cant count a feat unless u do it. how is this so hard. ds hanst done it yet and wont. case closed. Stop responding to me, I want you OUT of my business.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
Stop responding to me, I want you OUT of my business. i come here to prove points. i dont care what u say. im not imsulting im merely showing u the light. im really sorry if i hurt ur feelings and im just here to argue comics ok.



a feat isnt a feat until one does it.

have a great night,ok.



smile

starking
Originally posted by quanchi112
i come here to prove points. i dont care what u say. im not imsulting im merely showing u the light. im really sorry if i hurt ur feelings and im just here to argue comics ok.



a feat isnt a feat until one does it.

have a great night,ok.



smile I'm trying to be nice. When I tell you to back off DO IT. I don't feel like listening to what you have to say, it's like your a attention freak. Please keep to yourself, if I want to debate with you, I WILL.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
I'm trying to be nice. When I tell you to back off DO IT. I don't feel like listening to what you have to say, it's like your a attention freak. Please keep to yourself, if I want to debate with you, I WILL. i understand. im not an attention freak im a debater. i am trying to be nice as well. just listen to what im telling u. u cant count a futuristic feat until its in the present or in the past. ds could die before then for good. this is from an alternate timeline. anything could change it. doesnt count.

i know i like ds to and i think its acool feat but to be honest he changed his powerset when he started stealing peoples powers. mordru is badass. im glad ds fooled him and stole it from him. it shows how sneaky and underhanded ds can be. hes better at sneaking around.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
The way a certain character's power works, doesn't aply to all. Experiance? Ds isn't that type o character, that has to "practice" or "improve" his abilities, through experiance. This NEVER, NEVER, EVER, been shown on panel. It's very pointless to argue over it, there is NO context that supports that theory. Nada! He's skyfather for godsakes, he should have full skill over his power. That's like saying Galactus in a certain point of time, should have better use of his cosmic power. Ds is a god, and gods tend to be naturally skilled.







I can agree with many of the forum rules, because they're fair standards to debate under. I can agree with pis/cis, bloodlust, and no crossovers, because the settings in comics tend to be shakey. However I can't agree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, just because a mod says so. The reason me and you follow the forum rules, is because they are logical points that make a debate a little more realistic. I disagree with alternate timeline feats being invalid, because in my eyes, I see that as illogical. The space time continuum is real, and it really does work that way. To say something is unusable, only because the mod said so, doesn't make it true. What if a mod told you we couldn't use real world examples in a debate? Would you agree with that?




Wel my take on that is, the Daxamites could've been controlled even without the presence of the red sun. If they never resisted the tp, then I don't see how they could do so, if he was directly effecting them.
I decided to hold off my response to save us both a lot of time and unnecessary discussion on the matter. But here you go, a special addition to the forum rules(it's the last sentence under the Non Cannon Sources section)...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed."

So now Alternate Timelines are specifically(and officially) covered in the forum rules. That means that unless the thread starter specifically specifies GDS Darkseid, DS's feats from that arc are invalid under forum rules.

quanchi112
Originally posted by darthgoober
I decided to hold off my response to save us both a lot of time and unnecessary discussion on the matter. But here you go, a special addition to the forum rules(it's the last sentence under the Non Cannon Sources section)...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed."

So now Alternate Timelines are specifically(and officially) covered in the forum rules. That means that unless the thread starter specifically specifies GDS Darkseid, DS's feats from that arc are invalid under forum rules. simply awesome!!!!

nice work darthgoober.

TheEyesoGOD
Originally posted by darthgoober
I decided to hold off my response to save us both a lot of time and unnecessary discussion on the matter. But here you go, a special addition to the forum rules(it's the last sentence under the Non Cannon Sources section)...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed."

So now Alternate Timelines are specifically(and officially) covered in the forum rules. That means that unless the thread starter specifically specifies GDS Darkseid, DS's feats from that arc are invalid under forum rules.

GDS DS was a pussy.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TheEyesoGOD
GDS DS was a pussy. no he wasnt. im sick of people treating darkseid like hes nothing. he wasnt all powerful but he was by no means a pussy. that version of ds was impressive.

he stole powers like nobodys business.

TheEyesoGOD
Originally posted by quanchi112
no he wasnt. im sick of people treating darkseid like hes nothing. he wasnt all powerful but he was by no means a pussy. that version of ds was impressive.

he stole powers like nobodys business.

He sucked to me. I like the DS in Seven soldiers better. He pwned everybody. And was bitchn anyone who got in his way. He is way more powerful than GDS DS.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TheEyesoGOD
He sucked to me. I like the DS in Seven soldiers better. He pwned everybody. And was bitchn anyone who got in his way. He is way more powerful than GDS DS. somebody else used to say that. i wonder who used to always bring up seven soldiers?

hmmmmmmmm




i just dont like it when people insult the gds darkseid. sure he needed an army and to steal powers to accomplish dominance but give him a break.

seven soldiers looks lame to me although i havent read it. darksied as darkside. makes me sick.

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
I decided to hold off my response to save us both a lot of time and unnecessary discussion on the matter. But here you go, a special addition to the forum rules(it's the last sentence under the Non Cannon Sources section)...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed."

So now Alternate Timelines are specifically(and officially) covered in the forum rules. That means that unless the thread starter specifically specifies GDS Darkseid, DS's feats from that arc are invalid under forum rules. That's not fair and in my eye, weak way to debate. Digi bailed you out on that one and NOT yourself. I told you what I thought and you basically did, was got Digimark to change the rules for you. I hope your proud of yourself, you got the moderator on YOUR side, to give you a hand. That's very sad that you had to do all of that, just to prove your point to a 15 year old. And I know this is what you did, you even told me you have spoken to Digi before. But thanks anyways for bumping this thread, just to have the last word. smile

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
That's not fair and in my eye, weak way to debate. Digi bailed you out on that one and NOT yourself. I told you what I thought and you basically did, was got Digimark to change the rules for you. I hope your proud of yourself, you got the moderator on YOUR side, to give you a hand. That's very sad that you had to do all of that, just to prove your point to a 15 year old. And I know this is what you did, you even told me you have spoken to Digi before. But thanks anyways for bumping this thread, just to have the last word. smile
What do you mean a weak way to debate? The only question was whether or not the GDS fell under the heading of an alternate reality under forum rules and now we know. I knew that it DID in fact fall under that exact heading but YOU wanted it to be directly stated so that it would be "Official". Digi didn't "bail me out", he just clarified the forum rules because SOME people are to dense to understand what they mean exactly. Don't get all pissy with me because you were wrong...

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
What do you mean a weak way to debate? The only question was whether or not the GDS fell under the heading of an alternate reality under forum rules and now we know. I knew that it DID in fact fall under that exact heading but YOU wanted it to be directly stated so that it would be "Official". Digi didn't "bail me out", he just clarified the forum rules because SOME people are to dense to understand what they mean exactly. Don't get all pissy with me because you were wrong... Now I wasn't getting "pissy" with you and didn't call you anything like "dense". Tell me this and be honest. Did you have a say so in Digi's decesion. Because I believe this new forum rule, may have something to do with your influence. The reason I see this ruling as unfair, is I believe it should be further debated instead of thrown out the window, just because someone gave a mod an ideal, that it should "invalid". There are probaly better explanations than mine, to why those feats should be canon. But if I'm wrong about you having something to do with this, then you have my humble apologies. The reason I felt you copped out, is I always thought you where a respected debator around here, and I would think someone of your level, would be able to "simply" direct me to how I'm wrong, and make the point for yourself, rather than ask for a mods opinion.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
Now I wasn't getting "pissy" with you and didn't call you anything like "dense". Tell me this and be honest. Did you have a say so in Digi's decesion. Because I believe this new forum rule, may have something to do with your influence. The reason I see this ruling as unfair, is I believe it should be further debated instead of thrown out the window, just because someone gave a mod an ideal, that it should "invalid". There are probaly better explanations than mine, to why those feats should be canon. But if I'm wrong about you having something to do with this, then you have my humble apologies. The reason I felt you copped out, is I always thought you where a respected debator around here, and I would think someone of your level, would be able to "simply" direct me to how I'm wrong, and make the point for yourself, rather than ask for a mods opinion.
You seem to be misunderstanding something, Digi didn't change the rules just to invalidate the GDS. The change is to address and clarify a standard on the subject. There's no need to further debate the subject because trying to include DS's feats from the GDS while excluding feats for characters in similar situations constitutes a double standard that's unacceptable if you're trying to retain any degree of impartiality. DS isn't a special case just because of who he is, as I said before either everyone is allowed to drink from the same water fountain or they're not, and now DS is in line with everybody else.

Now did I have something to do with it? Absolutely. As for what that something was, all I did was point out that people(never gave a specific name) were still trying to use feats from versions of characters from several thousand years into the future, and said that they would continue to do so until it was "Officially" addressed in the rules. Now I TRIED to convey the reasoning and spirit behind the rule to you numerous times, but you just wouldn't listen because it wasn't written in black and white. So rather than waste another couple of months going around in circles with you while you demanded proof that it was against the rules, I went to the source and had it addressed. Sorry but I just don't have the patience to beat my head against a wall when I know for a fact that I'm right when I can have the situation resolved with a PM or two.

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
You seem to be misunderstanding something, Digi didn't change the rules just to invalidate the GDS. The change is to address and clarify a standard on the subject. There's no need to further debate the subject because trying to include DS's feats from the GDS while excluding feats for characters in similar situations constitutes a double standard that's unacceptable if you're trying to retain any degree of impartiality. DS isn't a special case just because of who he is, as I said before either everyone is allowed to drink from the same water fountain or their not, and now DS is in line with everybody else.
Here goes the character comparison again. You have to look at the fact that version of the character, was SPECIFICALLY stated to be weaker than himself in the past. Darkseid is no Silver Surfer, or even a Thanos. His character is very unique, in that certain events, such as the Crisis on infinite earths and zero hour, DID NOT effect him. He's doesn't even reside with the rest of the Dcu. You can't complain because you don't like the way things work for certain characters. All character's, rather their a Dc or a Marvel, are NOT made the same. While some have similar powersets, they work differently than others. For example Superman and Gladiator. While their abilities are almost identicle, they have orgins that differ from one another. Gladiator doesn't have the krptonite, or the red sun weakness. It's not a "double standard", because not all characters are made equally.

And that's exactly what's wrong with your argument. You only have going for you is the "it took place in another period of time, thus it's against rules", excuse. It would have been better for you to have taken a more scientific approach, to the debate that's in discussion. The problem with your theory is, very similar to what I've adressed above. Not all alternate history characters are the same. There are different circumstances for the matter. Such as the future incarnation of the character being WEAKER than his past self. Tell me this, if your supposed to be weaker in the future, and you peform a feat of great power, would you say your younger self COULDN'T do the same or even better? Is that even logical?

This why I felt dissapointed in you, if I was so wrong about what I was saying, then why could'nt you just counter my points, with your opinion? I'm not fond of that ideal because I don't see it as a rational standard, but instead a rule made because of ones influence over a moderator. And I don't recall asking for the rule being written in black in white.

Like I said, everything is not made equally, no matter what type of similarities they have.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking

Here goes the character comparison again. You have to look at the fact that version of the character, was SPECIFICALLY stated to be weaker than himself in the past. Darkseid is no Silver Surfer, or even a Thanos. His character is very unique, in that certain events, such as the Crisis on infinite earths and zero hour, DID NOT effect him. He's doesn't even reside with the rest of the Dcu. You can't complain because you don't like the way things work for certain characters. All character's, rather their a Dc or a Marvel, are NOT made the same. While some have similar powersets, they work differently than others. For example Superman and Gladiator. While their abilities are almost identicle, they have orgins that differ from one another. Gladiator doesn't have the krptonite, or the red sun weakness. It's not a "double standard", because not all characters are made equally.
We're not talking about the character's abilities, we're talking about the standard used to determine those abilities, and that standard SHOULD be the same regardless of the company or character in question. The rules are in place to keep things FAIR for all the characters involved with any specific debate.

As for the rest of this...

Originally posted by starking
And that's exactly what's wrong with your argument. You only have the "it took place in another period of time, thus it's against rules", going for you. It would have been better for you to have taken a more scientific approach, to the debate that's in discussion. The problem with your theory is, very similar to what I've adressed above. Not all alternate history characters are the same. There are different circumstances for the matter. Such as the future incarnation of the character being WEAKER than his past self. Tell me this, if your supposed to be weaker in the future, and you peform a feat of great power, would you say your younger self COULDN'T do the same or even better? Is that even logical?

This why I felt dissapointed in you, if I was so wrong about what I was saying, then why could'nt you just counter my points, with your opinion? I'm not fond of that ideal because I don't see it as a rational standard, but instead a rule made because of ones influence over a moderator. And I don't recall asking for the rule being written in black in white.

Like I said, everything is not made equally, not matter what type of similarities they have.
Tough. Darkseid has lost his "Special Status" that his fans tried to give him. No matter WHAT the circumstances, the same standard and format of rules should be applied to ALL characters, that's just the way it is. You wanted it official before you'd accept it and now it is, so further discussion over it is unnecessary. I'm not going to go on and on justifying my actions, when all I did was to have an "unwritten" rule specifically addressed to avoid future confusion and bickering among forum members. If you have a problem with the "No Alternate Time Lines" thing than you've ALWAYS had a problem with the rule, you just didn't know it at the time because it wasn't specifically mentioned. The rules haven't actually changed at all, just the wording.

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
We're not talking about the character's abilities, we're talking about the standard used to determine those abilities, and that standard SHOULD be the same regardless of the company or character in question. The rules are in place to keep things FAIR for all the characters involved with any specific debate.

As for the rest of this...LMAO, whatever you say then. All character's that are "similar" abilities have to follow the same rules. No matter what level they're on, or how those said ablilities operate. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Makes sense to me.


So how does something loses it's special status? Ds is different than most character's, and no matter what type of rules are made, or whatever the moderator says, this can't be DENIED! And I'm not saying this to wank him, a matter a fact this a bad if anything. Ds is very hard to generalize among other character's. He's inconsistent, confusing, and to damn complicated. Some thinks he's a weakling who can be beaten by Silver Surfer, some thinks he can take out Odin, some thnk he can stalemate, lose, or defeat Thanos, and so and so on.

As for your little "bickering" statement, no one was doing such a thing. What I thought I was doing with you, was debating. I was being respectful towards you and I thought you where doing the same. You getting Digi to specify the alternate timeline rule, felt like a cheap blow to me. How would you like to think you had the upper hand in a debate, only to have some kind of random and baseless rule, rubbed in your face after like 5 days? Would you like for someone to bump a thread just to do that? I fell that you of all people having to go to those lengths, is just sad. What if your trying to push a rule on people, that's kinda.....FLAWED? What if someone comes along, and make some very good points on this subject? This discussion had some good potenial, and there are many ways to make a case for both sides. You let me down when you gave your take on something, to a person with authority over me. Like I said, if I was so wrong about what I was saying, then couldn't you counter me, with DIFFERENT examples rather than the "moderator said this" excuse? What if this rule turns out to be flawed?

And Goober, please don't put words in my mouth. I never asked for those to be official, or even specified.

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
LMAO, whatever you say then. All character's that are "similar" abilities have to follow the same rules. No matter what level they're on, or how those said ablilities operate. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Makes sense to me.
Again you're confusing character's abilities with the way those abilities are determined.


Originally posted by starking
So how does something loses it's special status? Ds is different than most character's, and no matter what type of rules are made, or whatever the moderator says, this can't be DENIED! And I'm not saying this to wank him, a matter a fact this a bad if anything. Ds is very hard to generalize among other character's. He's inconsistent, confusing, and to damn complicated. Some thinks he's a weakling who can be beaten by Silver Surfer, some thinks he can take out Odin, some thnk he can stalemate, lose, or defeat Thanos, and so and so on.
The special status I was referring to was the allowing of a future version to be used to represent the capabilities of a character. Those days are over, now DS has the same rules concerning his abilities that every other character has.

Originally posted by starking
As for your little "bickering" statement, no one was doing such a thing. What I thought I was doing with you, was debating. I was being respectful towards you and I thought you where doing the same. You getting Digi to specify the alternate timeline rule, felt like a cheap blow to me. How would you like to think you had the upper hand in a debate, only to have some kind of random and baseless rule, rubbed in your face after like 5 days? Would you like for someone to bump a thread just to do that? I fell that you of all people having to go to those lengths, is just sad. What if your trying to push a rule on people, that's kinda.....FLAWED? What if someone comes along, and make some very good points on this subject? This discussion had some good potenial, and there are many ways to make a case for both sides. You let me down when you gave your take on something, to a person with authority over me. Like I said, if I was so wrong about what I was saying, then couldn't you counter me, with DIFFERENT examples rather than the "moderator said this" excuse? What if this rule turns out to be flawed?
I didn't mean that what was going on between the two of us was bickering, but you have to admit that what has gone down between the likes of you or nvr and quanchi on the matter WOULD fall under that category. It's just easier to get things clarified than to run around in circles. And it's not my fault that you feel cheated out of the "upper hand" in our debate. The fact is that I was ALWAYS backed by forum rules, you just didn't want to accept it. At best all you had was the "illusion" of having the upper hand, and that was only because I decided to wait for official confirmation before continuing. Now if someone comes along and convinces the Mods to change the rule to allow for alternate time lines I won't have any problem with that....as long as ALL alternate time lines are allowed rather than just the GDS. And you know what? Technically "What if's" are alternate time lines rather than alternate universes because they're SUPPOSED to be identical to Marvel 616 up until a very specific event happens(which is what makes them What If's). But as we've seen time and time again, What If's are a shitty reflection of Marvel 616.

Originally posted by starking
And Goober, please don't put words in my mouth. I never asked for those to be official, or even specified.
You never asked for it, but it was pretty clear what was necessary...

Originally posted by starking
Here's the problem, Digi's ruling is more of an opinion than a actual rule. Just because it came from a mod's mouth, doesn't make it fact. Secondly, Digi's well, retired if I'm not mistaken. Thirdly, the character is STILL the same person, and he was supposed to be weaker than his 20th centurary self. So how can you not give him credit, for those feats? We know the Gds existed, it's no illusion just a different timeline. People effected by the alterization of time, will not remeber the experiance. When the outcome of time is changed, it merely reshapes what already exist. Here's the challenge, find some context that says his powerset was somehow different, then you maybe on to something.


Originally posted by starking
Here's the issue with that, that's not even in the forum rules. Sure the mods are great in all, but their opinion isn't always the most logical. They're humans to, and they are bound to make mistakes. To let you know, Gds Seid isn't so much an alternate version, but him living through a different setting. Same character with a different outcome. The Gds Seid and Foundations Seid, can't co-exist for both of them are within the SAME universe. Take for example, if you kill yourself in tha past, you'll cease to exist in the future. Meaning their logical has to be one of you, seeing how another can't remain in existance, without the presence of your younger self.

Originally posted by starking
Again with this.... That's not OFFICIALY covered in the forum rules. I feel that it is just a opinion and nothing more. I also feel that it's just to illogical to, to accept as fact. Alternate universes and alternate timelines are NOT the samething. One is a seperate universe, the other is a different history in that the other one was changed, by screwing with the course of time. Take for example, you have a car. Then you replace the parts and change it's appearance. Same car, different look. That's how a alternate timeline/history is. Samething, only with different outcomes.

So now you know. It's not an opinion, it's a rule.

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
Again you're confusing character's abilities with the way those abilities are determined.I know what your saying, I understood from your Professor X example. Telepaths aren't the same, nor are energy projectors and bricks. There are godly telepahs, bricks whose powers come from magic(Juggernaut), or science(Hulk), their are beings who can manipulate cosmic power at lower levels than others(Firelord) and some at higher levels(Galactus). Somethings just work so much differently, that it can't be compared.



Well I still don't see that as a solid explanation. The whole "future version" of the character, works differently along with ones powerset. In order for those versions of a character to be invalid, they would have to not exist at all. As in never happened or occured PERIOD. However they WOULD have to exist, seeing how certain characters can and has gone to the future and experianced it for themselfs.


Nah, you can't compare this to anything with Quanchi. Now an argument with him, will be ridiculous no matter what the subject is. big grin

Now as for the rest, let me tell that what ifs are NOT alternate timelines. They are what they are, WHAT IFS. There's no proof existance, and they're more like an alternate reality than a different timeline because unlike the timelines, they don't fit in the said universe AT ALL. You think Superman Red son, fits in the Dcu? Things in that story are to different, for it to simply be an alternate outcome, of a certain event. You have to change the course of time, for it to be an "alternate timeline", and for most what ifs they don't display such thing.

This is why I think that should'nt have been declared non canon, because some people don't have a good enough understanding of the space time continuum, and clasify it with being a different universe or such and such...


Meh, I figured you would do that. But the problem is, I already knew about Digi's opinion, and like then I still disagree with it. I see flaws in that ruling, that could be exploited.







Or it could be an opinion....

But for now, I'm going to give this whole thing a rest, hopefully someone else will see the flaw in this "change".

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
I know what your saying, I understood from your Professor X example. Telepaths aren't the same, nor are energy projectors and bricks. There are godly telepahs, bricks whose powers come from magic(Juggernaut), or science(Hulk), their are beings who can manipulate cosmic power at lower levels than others(Firelord) and some at higher levels(Galactus). Somethings just work so much differently, that it can't be compared.
But standards can be compared and they SHOULD be the same. That means that if Supes pushing a planet counts as a strength feat rather than a flight feet, it should be considered a strength feat for everyone. If PIS writes off BS loses for one character on the forum, it should do the same for everyone's BS loses. If future versions aren't legitimate for one character, then they shouldn't be legitimate for ANY character.


Originally posted by starking
Well I still don't see that as a solid explanation. The whole "future version" of the character, works differently along with ones powerset. In order for those versions of a character to be invalid, they would have to not exist at all. As in never happened or occured PERIOD. However they WOULD have to exist, seeing how certain characters can and has gone to the future and experianced it for themselfs.
I'm not denying the existence or relevance of the GDS, I'm just saying that it's not valid until DS's current character actually experiences it first hand.

Originally posted by starking
Nah, you can't compare this to anything with Quanchi. Now an argument with him, will be ridiculous no matter what the subject is. big grin
But I didn't just mean bickering with me, I mean bickering period. I just like it when things are productive, and the way things stood the same argument was spamming up every DS thread you and I were both posting on with the same argument while you also had the same circular conversations with quan. Now we'll all have to find new things to argue about laughing .

Originally posted by starking
Now as for the rest, let me tell that what ifs are NOT alternate timelines. They are what they are, WHAT IFS. There's no proof existance, and they're more like an alternate reality than a different timeline because unlike the timelines, they don't fit in the said universe AT ALL. You think Superman Red son, fits in the Dcu? Things in that story are to different, for it to simply be an alternate outcome, of a certain event. You have to change the course of time, for it to be an "alternate timeline", and for most what ifs they don't display such thing.
And A LOT has happened since the GDS was written as well. Realistically there's no way the DCU as it stands will actually end up suffering from the GDS no matter WHAT DC says. Eventually someone essential to that story like DS, Highfather, or some crucial person in the Legion will die, which will throw the whole damn story off. Truth be told, that very thing has probably already happened and I'm just not well versed enough in DC to know about it yet.

Originally posted by starking
This is why I think that should'nt have been declared non canon, because some people don't have a good enough understanding of the space time continuum, and clasify it with being a different universe or such and such...
It's not being declared non cannon completely, just non cannon to his CURRENT character.

Originally posted by starking
Meh, I figured you would do that. But the problem is, I already knew about Digi's opinion, and like then I still disagree with it. I see flaws in that ruling, that could be exploited.
ANY rule can be exploited if you're determined enough, but you don't guard against that by throwing them all out the window.

Originally posted by starking
Or it could be an opinion....

But for now, I'm going to give this whole thing a rest, hopefully someone else will see the flaw in this "change".
Not OR it could be an opinion because there's no denying it's a rule now. You can say that it's a rule AND an opinion, but it's definitely covered in the rules now.

Goddess Kali
Thanos can beat Darksied without a Gem


With a Gem, forget it, Darksied gets whipped, Thanos will push him down the stairs laughing

quanchi112
its very simple as i have said many times you cant count a feat unless its in the past tense. you cant count feats that happen 1000 years into the future. its not how it works. with the way dc runs things they reset timelines all the time anyways and to assume gds stands is silly.


but its according to our forum rules as darthgoober so eloquently put. so theres no arguing and i dont care if it was covered in the rules or not ds hasnt expereinced these things and prolly will never so it doesnt count or stand.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
LMAO, whatever you say then. All character's that are "similar" abilities have to follow the same rules. No matter what level they're on, or how those said ablilities operate. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Makes sense to me.


So how does something loses it's special status? Ds is different than most character's, and no matter what type of rules are made, or whatever the moderator says, this can't be DENIED! And I'm not saying this to wank him, a matter a fact this a bad if anything. Ds is very hard to generalize among other character's. He's inconsistent, confusing, and to damn complicated. Some thinks he's a weakling who can be beaten by Silver Surfer, some thinks he can take out Odin, some thnk he can stalemate, lose, or defeat Thanos, and so and so on.

As for your little "bickering" statement, no one was doing such a thing. What I thought I was doing with you, was debating. I was being respectful towards you and I thought you where doing the same. You getting Digi to specify the alternate timeline rule, felt like a cheap blow to me. How would you like to think you had the upper hand in a debate, only to have some kind of random and baseless rule, rubbed in your face after like 5 days? Would you like for someone to bump a thread just to do that? I fell that you of all people having to go to those lengths, is just sad. What if your trying to push a rule on people, that's kinda.....FLAWED? What if someone comes along, and make some very good points on this subject? This discussion had some good potenial, and there are many ways to make a case for both sides. You let me down when you gave your take on something, to a person with authority over me. Like I said, if I was so wrong about what I was saying, then couldn't you counter me, with DIFFERENT examples rather than the "moderator said this" excuse? What if this rule turns out to be flawed?

And Goober, please don't put words in my mouth. I never asked for those to be official, or even specified. he didnt ask digi to make a rule and there is no conspiracy for this gds feat to stand or not stand. certain events have to occur for this to happen. ds has to run around powering himself up in certain ways and changing his abilities. they dont count for these two reasons.

1 he amped himself up by stealing mega powerful people thereby altering his abilites.
2 the events in question havent occurred to current ds.

if you dont live an event how can you credit ones feats from it.

simple as that.


stick out tongue

starking
Ok, I'm back
Originally posted by darthgoober
But standards can be compared and they SHOULD be the same. That means that if Supes pushing a planet counts as a strength feat rather than a flight feet, it should be considered a strength feat for everyone. If PIS writes off BS loses for one character on the forum, it should do the same for everyone's BS loses. If future versions aren't legitimate for one character, then they shouldn't be legitimate for ANY character.Ummm...what?huh I'm sorry but I don't get what your trying to say. Some characters have the similar. However the levels of those abilities vary from one person to another. For instance, lets say you have a bomb and a nuke. While they're both similar in that they explode. However the difference between their power, is DRAMATIC! One can destroy a building at the most, the other can wipe out entire cities. That's why the comparison you made between Ds's telepathy and Xavier's telepathy, is inaccurate. Darkseid=godly tp, Xavier equals=mutant tp. Just because one rule applies to certain characters, doesn't mean the same for all. Silver Surfer can probally beat Superman due to his kryptonite weakness. However this wouldn't mean the same for Gladiator or Sentry, because these characters while homages to Superman, lack his kp weakness.



Here's the deal, the current version of the character doesn't have to experiance a future, or even an alternate future for it to be relevent. We know for sure Gds happened because pc Superboy experianced it. In alternate futures, one should only have a different powerset, if an event of some sort took place that increased it's level. This did NOT happen, in fact the exact opposite did. Current Ds should be just as powerful, or even stronger going by the context of that story. This statement is supported by Seid being able to cause time to collapse, by pulling him out of the timestream, him destroying planets with Orion, and a avatar creating alternate realities. We can't credit characters like Superman one million with his feats, because he was almost a different character entirely and helluva alot stronger. Not only that, but there's not much proof that the 1 million timeline existed. There's so many thing different from the Gds and other alternate histories/timelines in comics.


Don't worry, this isn't half as bad as a majority of the crap you see on Kmc nowadays.


Now to disrespect you or anything, but if your not well versed in Dc, then why make such assumptions? Doesn't that contradict your post? Anyways, if you are correct about the Gds not happening(which you very well maybe) then it still doesn't matter. I'm looking at this from a realistic standpoint. As in not what would happen in a comic, but what would happen in real life. If the future was going to be a certain way, but it was some how changed, then I wouldn't say it's outcome prior to the change NEVER EXISTED. That means if history is rewritten, then we can't the way it was originally, never existed. That's illogical in that one can go to an alternate future, leave it, and remember it. How can it have never been, if you remember the experiance? Was it some kind of illusion? Watch Back to the future to see what I mean.


Non canon is a incorrect term for Gds Ds. They are still the same person, and that word shouldn't be associated with him. Non canon sources should be like zombie Wolverine. A completely different character, in another universe.


Not really. Pis makes perfect sense, because it there are some truly retarded showings in comics. As does cis, because there's some truly retarded characters in comics. As does bloodlust, because it makes the debate more interesting, to see what character's true potential. But no alternate timelines? The biggest problem with this rule, is it probally should more specific to certain characters. Sure, this shouldn't count to characters who will be more powerful in the future, but what about those who are weaker? It restrains potential debates, because it's a rule that's there just because.


A rule made by the same guy, with the same opinion. Like I said, this is something that's needed to be studied further. There are some gaps in it's ruling.

starking
And Quanchi, stop responding to me. I'm not in the mood to here what you have to say. Your not worth my time and effort, and all you do is instigate pointless little arguments. You pull this crap with everybody and it's uneccasry, for you don't have that right to force your opinion on others.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
And Quanchi, stop responding to me. I'm not in the mood to here what you have to say. Your not worth my time and effort, and all you do is instigate pointless little arguments. You pull this crap with everybody and it's uneccasry, for you don't have that right to force your opinion on others. listen this is a public forum and you dont have the right to tell me not to respond to you. im not insulting you at all. i am merely a dissenting opinion. so do not respond to me then and continue to read my posts but dont respond if you dont want to.

and all posters come here to debate so do not call them pointless arguments becuz that is what people come here to do. that is all.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
Ok, I'm back
Ummm...what?huh I'm sorry but I don't get what your trying to say. Some characters have the similar. However the levels of those abilities vary from one person to another. For instance, lets say you have a bomb and a nuke. While they're both similar in that they explode. However the difference between their power, is DRAMATIC! One can destroy a building at the most, the other can wipe out entire cities. That's why the comparison you made between Ds's telepathy and Xavier's telepathy, is inaccurate. Darkseid=godly tp, Xavier equals=mutant tp. Just because one rule applies to certain characters, doesn't mean the same for all. Silver Surfer can probally beat Superman due to his kryptonite weakness. However this wouldn't mean the same for Gladiator or Sentry, because these characters while homages to Superman, lack his kp weakness.



Here's the deal, the current version of the character doesn't have to experiance a future, or even an alternate future for it to be relevent. We know for sure Gds happened because pc Superboy experianced it. In alternate futures, one should only have a different powerset, if an event of some sort took place that increased it's level. This did NOT happen, in fact the exact opposite did. Current Ds should be just as powerful, or even stronger going by the context of that story. This statement is supported by Seid being able to cause time to collapse, by pulling him out of the timestream, him destroying planets with Orion, and a avatar creating alternate realities. We can't credit characters like Superman one million with his feats, because he was almost a different character entirely and helluva alot stronger. Not only that, but there's not much proof that the 1 million timeline existed. There's so many thing different from the Gds and other alternate histories/timelines in comics.


Don't worry, this isn't half as bad as a majority of the crap you see on Kmc nowadays.


Now to disrespect you or anything, but if your not well versed in Dc, then why make such assumptions? Doesn't that contradict your post? Anyways, if you are correct about the Gds not happening(which you very well maybe) then it still doesn't matter. I'm looking at this from a realistic standpoint. As in not what would happen in a comic, but what would happen in real life. If the future was going to be a certain way, but it was some how changed, then I wouldn't say it's outcome prior to the change NEVER EXISTED. That means if history is rewritten, then we can't the way it was originally, never existed. That's illogical in that one can go to an alternate future, leave it, and remember it. How can it have never been, if you remember the experiance? Was it some kind of illusion? Watch Back to the future to see what I mean.


Non canon is a incorrect term for Gds Ds. They are still the same person, and that word shouldn't be associated with him. Non canon sources should be like zombie Wolverine. A completely different character, in another universe.


Not really. Pis makes perfect sense, because it there are some truly retarded showings in comics. As does cis, because there's some truly retarded characters in comics. As does bloodlust, because it makes the debate more interesting, to see what character's true potential. But no alternate timelines? The biggest problem with this rule, is it probally should more specific to certain characters. Sure, this shouldn't count to characters who will be more powerful in the future, but what about those who are weaker? It restrains potential debates, because it's a rule that's there just because.


A rule made by the same guy, with the same opinion. Like I said, this is something that's needed to be studied further. There are some gaps in it's ruling. events took place that changed ds powerset. he stole other beings powers. whether it amped him beyond his old powerset is meaningless as this no doubt altered his current powerset. so these feats dont count for the two reasons i have already named. maybe if ds came back and didnt need to absorb mordrus powers you would have an argument but it happened. ds has never absorbed current mordrus power has he? no. so ds took and carried out a plan that changed his normal powerset. events did take place that altered them. whether the comic stated he was less powerful or not is inconsequential.


now with regards to your back to the future references. one thing is different. the doc and marty were living and experiencing these events and they happened. thus they were in the past tense even though some happened in the past and future. with regards to gds darkseid the reg darkseid hasnt expereinced this and has no memory while marty and doc had a memory of this becuz they lived it. DS DIDNT LIVE IT YET WHILE MARTY AND DOC LIVED IT.

the feats dont count here or anywhere.

starking
Originally posted by quanchi112
events took place that changed ds powerset. he stole other beings powers. whether it amped him beyond his old powerset is meaningless as this no doubt altered his current powerset. so these feats dont count for the two reasons i have already named. maybe if ds came back and didnt need to absorb mordrus powers you would have an argument but it happened. ds has never absorbed current mordrus power has he? no. so ds took and carried out a plan that changed his normal powerset. events did take place that altered them. whether the comic stated he was less powerful or not is inconsequential.


now with regards to your back to the future references. one thing is different. the doc and marty were living and experiencing these events and they happened. thus they were in the past tense even though some happened in the past and future. with regards to gds darkseid the reg darkseid hasnt expereinced this and has no memory while marty and doc had a memory of this becuz they lived it. DS DIDNT LIVE IT YET WHILE MARTY AND DOC LIVED IT.

the feats dont count here or anywhere. Go the hell away, your such a attention freak.

starking
Btw, I thought you liked to have people out of your business?

Originally posted by Badabing
It seems people are either flame baiting Estacado or are honestly having trouble comprehending his posts.

Quanchi, if I were you I'd stop drawing attention myself. wink
Originally posted by quanchi112
first off mind your own busness. he admitted the other day to creating a spite thread to antagonize me. he calles peple retards in most of his posts and just jumps down peoples throats before taking the time to actually read the posts.

and one other thing dont tell me what to do ...ever. ok.



wink

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
Ummm...what?huh I'm sorry but I don't get what your trying to say. Some characters have the similar. However the levels of those abilities vary from one person to another. For instance, lets say you have a bomb and a nuke. While they're both similar in that they explode. However the difference between their power, is DRAMATIC! One can destroy a building at the most, the other can wipe out entire cities. That's why the comparison you made between Ds's telepathy and Xavier's telepathy, is inaccurate. Darkseid=godly tp, Xavier equals=mutant tp. Just because one rule applies to certain characters, doesn't mean the same for all. Silver Surfer can probally beat Superman due to his kryptonite weakness. However this wouldn't mean the same for Gladiator or Sentry, because these characters while homages to Superman, lack his kp weakness.
Oh now I get what you're saying. But still, DS and the rest of the New Gods have to LEARN how to use their powers effectively just like everyone else, they're not born with an innate knowledge of all their powers and how to best use those powers effectively. TP is heavily dependant on willpower and experience, which GDS DS has more of both than DS's current incarnation due to the GDS being set in the far future.

Also while Sentry's still kinda up in the air at this point, Surfer can most definitely beat Glads because Glads has a radiation weakness similar to Supes K-Nite weakness. And actually Surfer could STILL beat either of those guys without using their weaknesses, it just wouldn't be as easy for him to pull off the victory.



Originally posted by starking
Here's the deal, the current version of the character doesn't have to experiance a future, or even an alternate future for it to be relevent. We know for sure Gds happened because pc Superboy experianced it. In alternate futures, one should only have a different powerset, if an event of some sort took place that increased it's level. This did NOT happen, in fact the exact opposite did. Current Ds should be just as powerful, or even stronger going by the context of that story. This statement is supported by Seid being able to cause time to collapse, by pulling him out of the timestream, him destroying planets with Orion, and a avatar creating alternate realities. We can't credit characters like Superman one million with his feats, because he was almost a different character entirely and helluva alot stronger. Not only that, but there's not much proof that the 1 million timeline existed. There's so many thing different from the Gds and other alternate histories/timelines in comics.
He STILL hasn't done it yet. Think about it like this, if you say "Pre Annihilation Surfer vs *insert name here*" you can't use Surfer's blackhole creation feat even though it's the EXACT same character and when he accomplished that feat he had the exact same power set. Digi still allowed for the GDS, it's just that GDS DS has to be specified because it's not his current character.


Originally posted by starking
Now to disrespect you or anything, but if your not well versed in Dc, then why make such assumptions? Doesn't that contradict your post?

I didn't say that I wasn't well versed, I said well versed enough. There's always more to learn after all. I seriously doubt that ANYONE has read every single DC comic ever made, so I doubt than there's someone around KMC that actually knows EVERYTHING in regards to DC.

Originally posted by starking
Anyways, if you are correct about the Gds not happening(which you very well maybe) then it still doesn't matter. I'm looking at this from a realistic standpoint. As in not what would happen in a comic, but what would happen in real life. If the future was going to be a certain way, but it was some how changed, then I wouldn't say it's outcome prior to the change NEVER EXISTED. That means if history is rewritten, then we can't the way it was originally, never existed. That's illogical in that one can go to an alternate future, leave it, and remember it. How can it have never been, if you remember the experiance? Was it some kind of illusion? Watch Back to the future to see what I mean.
The future may still exist(arguable), but if it's changed that means that DS will never experience it. That's what's important for the feats to be valid, that he actually experiences it and accomplishes those feats.

Originally posted by starking
Non canon is a incorrect term for Gds Ds. They are still the same person, and that word shouldn't be associated with him. Non canon sources should be like zombie Wolverine. A completely different character, in another universe.
Well I'm sorry that Digi didn't want to create a whole new rule regarding alternate time lines. Like I said the GDS might be cannon(I'm not arguing that), it's just not cannon to his current character because he hasn't actually experienced it yet.



Originally posted by starking
Not really. Pis makes perfect sense, because it there are some truly retarded showings in comics. As does cis, because there's some truly retarded characters in comics. As does bloodlust, because it makes the debate more interesting, to see what character's true potential. But no alternate timelines? The biggest problem with this rule, is it probally should more specific to certain characters. Sure, this shouldn't count to characters who will be more powerful in the future, but what about those who are weaker? It restrains potential debates, because it's a rule that's there just because.
I disagree. The same rules should apply to EVERY character no matter who they are. See if we allow things like the GDS for DS while barring characters in similar situations because it's not expressly written in the rules that alternate timelines aren't allowed(not a problem anymore) then THAT would be(and was) exploitation of the rules, because it was relying on a loophole in the rules to allow more for one character than every other character.


Originally posted by starking
A rule made by the same guy, with the same opinion. Like I said, this is something that's needed to be studied further. There are some gaps in it's ruling.
But still a rule, no denying that. And there are no gaps, because it's an equal ruling.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
Go the hell away, your such a attention freak. u cant respond to my posts becuz im right. plain and simple. ur lack of a response proves this.

quanchi112
Originally posted by starking
Btw, I thought you liked to have people out of your business? im reponding to ur argument not you as a person. that would be like me telling you to drop this and leave it alone with darthgoober. im simply responding to ur argument and not u as a person.

cant u see this?

quanchi112
Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh now I get what you're saying. But still, DS and the rest of the New Gods have to LEARN how to use their powers effectively just like everyone else, they're not born with an innate knowledge of all their powers and how to best use those powers effectively. TP is heavily dependant on willpower and experience, which GDS DS has more of both than DS's current incarnation due to the GDS being set in the far future.

Also while Sentry's still kinda up in the air at this point, Surfer can most definitely beat Glads because Glads has a radiation weakness similar to Supes K-Nite weakness. And actually Surfer could STILL beat either of those guys without using their weaknesses, it just wouldn't be as easy for him to pull off the victory.




He STILL hasn't done it yet. Think about it like this, if you say "Pre Annihilation Surfer vs *insert name here*" you can't use Surfer's blackhole creation feat even though it's the EXACT same character and when he accomplished that feat he had the exact same power set. Digi still allowed for the GDS, it's just that GDS DS has to be specified because it's not his current character.




I didn't say that I wasn't well versed, I said well versed enough. There's always more to learn after all. I seriously doubt that ANYONE has read every single DC comic ever made, so I doubt than there's someone around KMC that actually knows EVERYTHING in regards to DC.


The future may still exist(arguable), but if it's changed that means that DS will never experience it. That's what's important for the feats to be valid, that he actually experiences it and accomplishes those feats.


Well I'm sorry that Digi didn't want to create a whole new rule regarding alternate time lines. Like I said the GDS might be cannon(I'm not arguing that), it's just not cannon to his current character because he hasn't actually experienced it yet.




I disagree. The same rules should apply to EVERY character no matter who they are. See if we allow things like the GDS for DS while barring characters in similar situations because it's not expressly written in the rules that alternate timelines aren't allowed(not a problem anymore) then THAT would be(and was) exploitation of the rules, because it was relying on a loophole in the rules to allow more for one character than every other character.



But still a rule, no denying that. And there are no gaps, because it's an equal ruling. thumb up

starking
Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh now I get what you're saying. But still, DS and the rest of the New Gods have to LEARN how to use their powers effectively just like everyone else, they're not born with an innate knowledge of all their powers and how to best use those powers effectively. TP is heavily dependant on willpower and experience, which GDS DS has more of both than DS's current incarnation due to the GDS being set in the far future.No man, in order for that to be true it has to be SHOWN that certain abilities must be sharpened. I believe there has NEVER been any instances of New Gods having to do such a thing. I could be wrong, but until proven, the statement above is speculation. And for your tp theory, there are many things wrong with it. First of all, we're talking about character who was probally weak, for like nearly thousands of years. How can you improve a skill, you have been lacking for so long? If a samurai lost one of his limbs, and he has been out of commision for years, then how would he be able to improve his speed and agility? And your also off in that tp isn't the same for all. What if New Gods can use tp effortlessly? Just because one character does something in a certain way, doesn't mean it applies to all.

I won't disagree with you on this.




I understand your example, but how does that help your point? I mean why would you use a current, non future showing as an example? It doesn't make sense and it doesn't have any similarities to the discussion, at hand. Anyways, I think your problem is that your thinking of a possible future, which is more like a guess to what happens down on. The future in Gds HAD to physically exist, because if pc Superboy can remember it and return to the past. Experiance isn't everything. What if we saw Superman destroy a planet, and a few minutes later he is knocked out and has his memory erased? Do we not credit him with the feat, even though we SAW him do so, with our own eyes? That's kinda how time is, when the course of time is altered your life we'll be changed and you'll have no memory what so ever, about how it was prior to the alteration. So does that mean the timeline never, ever, ever existed, yet some may have memories of the event? Nope! Kinda like the Genesis box in Rock of ages. People give it credit, even though it was used in a different future.




Alright then, that's fine with me.


But what if you saw a weaker version lift ten tons? Would you say that you can't do what he does, despite being stronger than him? If the feat DID(or was goint to) happen, then that should be enough evidence itself.


Yet we know for sure that version of the character, existed at one point of time. You have to go for what seems more logical, rather than what's written in the rules.




Let me make this simple, some characters are special. Living Tribunals appearances outside of the 616, should be canon. Seeing how there's only one of him through out the multiverse. You can't put everything in same class, because of a few similarities. We sort things out in the animal kingdom, in physics, in astronomy, etc etc. Like I said before, not everything is made equally. The differant circumstances are what makes that ruling flawed.



It was Digi's rule, always has been, and no way does it change the fact that it could go against what's more logical.

Symmetric Chaos
Power, Time, Space Thanos takes without too much trouble.

He'll lose with the MindGem since the actual power and ability afforded to the user are far from impressive.

SoulGem's more of a toss up since I'm not sure what would actually happen.

RealityGem is harder to use than the others so srug

darthgoober
Originally posted by starking
No man, in order for that to be true it has to be SHOWN that certain abilities must be sharpened. I believe there has NEVER been any instances of New Gods having to do such a thing. I could be wrong, but until proven, the statement above is speculation. And for your tp theory, there are many things wrong with it. First of all, we're talking about character who was probally weak, for like nearly thousands of years. How can you improve a skill, you have been lacking for so long? If a samurai lost one of his limbs, and he has been out of commision for years, then how would he be able to improve his speed and agility? And your also off in that tp isn't the same for all. What if New Gods can use tp effortlessly? Just because one character does something in a certain way, doesn't mean it applies to all.
Oh there's been instance of just that.

Here's a New God Child that doesn't even know that she's immortal(which shows that they're not born with knowledge of their powers and abilities)...
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2838/newgods0404oryanganganduz7.th.jpg

And here Lightray has to be saved by Metron because he doesn't know how best to use his powers...
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5975/newgods0309vt8.th.jpg

They learn about themselves and how best to use their abilities through experience just like everyone else.

Originally posted by starking
I understand your example, but how does that help your point? I mean why would you use a current, non future showing as an example? It doesn't make sense and it doesn't have any similarities to the discussion, at hand. Anyways, I think your problem is that your thinking of a possible future, which is more like a guess to what happens down on. The future in Gds HAD to physically exist, because if pc Superboy can remember it and return to the past. Experiance isn't everything. What if we saw Superman destroy a planet, and a few minutes later he is knocked out and has his memory erased? Do we not credit him with the feat, even though we SAW him do so, with our own eyes? That's kinda how time is, when the course of time is altered your life we'll be changed and you'll have no memory what so ever, about how it was prior to the alteration. So does that mean the timeline never, ever, ever existed, yet some may have memories of the event? Nope! Kinda like the Genesis box in Rock of ages. People give it credit, even though it was used in a different future.

Yeah but in you're example Supes actually did it(which makes it valid), DS still hasn't been through the GDS. The memory isn't the most important thing, actually accomplishing the feat is.

Originally posted by starking
But what if you saw a weaker version lift ten tons? Would you say that you can't do what he does, despite being stronger than him? If the feat DID(or was goint to) happen, then that should be enough evidence itself.
Orion will one day destroy DS, do we credit his current character with the feat?

Originally posted by starking
Yet we know for sure that version of the character, existed at one point of time. You have to go for what seems more logical, rather than what's written in the rules.
Logic tells us that a human sized being is incapable of lifting a building no matter HOW strong he is because the building would collapse under it's own weight. So do we follow logic or the section of the forum rules where everyone is at peak capacity and capable of the feats they've accomplished?

Originally posted by starking
Let me make this simple, some characters are special. Living Tribunals appearances outside of the 616, should be canon. Seeing how there's only one of him through out the multiverse. You can't put everything in same class, because of a few similarities. We sort things out in the animal kingdom, in physics, in astronomy, etc etc. Like I said before, not everything is made equally. The differant circumstances are what makes that ruling flawed.
So since every appearance of DS is valid in your opinion, then that means that the OE has been dodged by Batman through pure agility and human level speed(like in JLU) and DS's power has been matched by Thanos(like in Marvel vs DC) right?

Originally posted by starking
It was Digi's rule, always has been, and no way does it change the fact that it could go against what's more logical.
Not just Digi's rule, FORUM RULE. And it's more logical in YOUR opinion. So all you have to do is to gain mod status and then you can make it official.

quanchi112
starking starking starking. you dont make the rules for what counts on this forum or not so dont stick up for ur boy darkseid any further.

LET ME ASK YOU THIS. DOES DARKSEID HAVE THIS FEAT STORED IN HIS MEMORY AND DOES HE REMEBER EXPERIENCING IT? THE CURRENT ONE. the answer is no he doesnt remember it cuz it hasnt happened and wont. even if it does u dont list that as a feat for the current ds becuz he hasnt lived it yet only that particular darkseid has lived it.


we will talk back to the future becuz as hard as u try to grasp it u fail miserably. we will take biff for instance. ok with biff in back to the fture two. after he he used the sports book to gain his fame he turned rich right and took over his town. that feat is only for that biff even though its the same character. when they rewrite the timeline while the normal biff is capable of this with the sports book it doesnt happen to him and he doesnt experience it. he lived it once in this weirdo timeline and that biff only can u count the feat for but no other biff.

get what i am saying? one particular book caused this biff to do the things he has done. without one specific event happening he winds up polishing mr mcfly's car. so while hes capable of this he only is if the one eevnt happens and he gets the book becuz we see how certain events shape all these characters involved in drastically different ways.


one time hes in charge of mcfly then hes his bich. then with the book he calls the shots then hes his bich again. time keeps altering the characters and not their powers but who they are and what they become through a particular event or so.


when ds abosrbed mordrus powers he altered his own. he was weak on his own but absorbed an abstarcts powers thus changing his own.



GDS FEATS DONT COUNT HERE OR ANYWHERE unless ur talking about that specific darkseid.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by darthgoober
And here Lightray has to be saved by Metron because he doesn't know how best to use his powers...
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5975/newgods0309vt8.th.jpg


Slightly off topic but did Metron deflect death? blink

darthgoober
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Slightly off topic but did Metron deflect death? blink
I guess in a way you could say that. What he actually did was teleport him away I believe.

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Power, Time, Space Thanos takes without too much trouble.

He'll lose with the MindGem since the actual power and ability afforded to the user are far from impressive.

SoulGem's more of a toss up since I'm not sure what would actually happen.

RealityGem is harder to use than the others so srug

Power, given it's max output, he'd have a chance, assuming Darkseid didn't OE him. or just take the gem.

Time, dicey. The OE and other things make time a peculiar proposition.

Space, not a chance in hell. It doesn't give Thanos anywhere near the power needed.

Mind, essentially worthless on it's own. Darkseid takes it.

Reality, now this is tough. If Thanos had full control of it, he might be able to win. But again, when has any of the gems stopped a full skyfather on their own?

Soul, no idea.


But really, none of these are stomps by Thanos. He could lose all of them, and he only has a shot at winning in 3 or less. What's stopping Darkseid from taking the gems from Thanos? Maximum use of the gems would be needed for Thanos to win any of these. Do the gems on their own put you above a skyfather in power?

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
But again, when has any of the gems stopped a full skyfather on their own?

The Soul Gem stopped Mephisto.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by darthgoober
The Soul Gem stopped Mephisto.

The proper use of magnets has stopped Mephisto.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Power, given it's max output, he'd have a chance, assuming Darkseid didn't OE him. or just take the gem.

Time, dicey. The OE and other things make time a peculiar proposition.

Space, not a chance in hell. It doesn't give Thanos anywhere near the power needed.

Mind, essentially worthless on it's own. Darkseid takes it.

Reality, now this is tough. If Thanos had full control of it, he might be able to win. But again, when has any of the gems stopped a full skyfather on their own?

Soul, no idea.


But really, none of these are stomps by Thanos. He could lose all of them, and he only has a shot at winning in 3 or less. What's stopping Darkseid from taking the gems from Thanos? Maximum use of the gems would be needed for Thanos to win any of these. Do the gems on their own put you above a skyfather in power? darkseid got his ass kicked by superman with no powerups. so dont come with all this skyfather talk. odin couldnt put thanos down without any gems. odin is a helluva lot more than darkseid. thanos with each and every gem crushed darkseid into the pavement. its not even a match.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The proper use of magnets has stopped Mephisto.
I was just answering his question.

But did those magnets overpower Mephisto inside of Hades?

darthgoober
Originally posted by darthgoober
But did those magnets overpower Mephisto inside of Hades?

Anyway, I was just answering his question.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The proper use of magnets has stopped Mephisto. not familiar with this but did the magnets stop mephisto in his own realm?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by darthgoober
I was just answering his question.

But did those magnets overpower Mephisto inside of Hades?

No I think the cut him off from his power source or something like that.

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