Hercules (Marvel Comics) vs Hercules (DC Comics)

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Dgw2007
battel of the Hercules who is beeter

nvrbeenwthagirl
Well DC has combined all thier herculeses into one. The herculese that powers captain marvel is the same one that wonder woman is stronger than. he's got a new series coming out soon.

Dgw2007
so are saying he will win or not

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Dgw2007
so are saying he will win or not
Don't know. they seem equal. WW is stronger than both. So i'd assume they are around the same. even having the same years of battle experience.

quanchi112
marvel herc wins.

CaptainStoic
Stalemate, I say they chill and get the wine and the women.

Dgw2007
Originally posted by quanchi112
marvel herc wins. why plz explain because i think it would be even

quanchi112
Originally posted by Dgw2007
why plz explain because i think it would be even more experience on marvels herc side.

guy222
Originally posted by Dgw2007
battel of the Hercules who is beeter

Marvel Herc

Dgw2007
uk then
marvel zeus vs dc zeus

Trolt
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Don't know. they seem equal. WW is stronger than both. So i'd assume they are around the same. even having the same years of battle experience.

twice you had to bring up that Wonderwoman is stronger than hercules.

Trying in to slip in a fanboy message somewhere ?

h1a8
Originally posted by Trolt
twice you had to bring up that Wonderwoman is stronger than hercules.

Trying in to slip in a fanboy message somewhere ?

I agree with nvrbeenwthagirl. It creates more efficient debates elsewhere.
Meaning, it is better to state facts while you can (as long as they are on a close tangent) in order to prevent others from arguing otherwise if the matter comes up in another thread. This saves time and debating energy. Plus it brings newcomers or rookies of comics and comic debating up to speed so they can have better and more efficient debates.

Trolt
Well we all know 2damnloud and storm. Ill let you guess whos going for WW.

Superboy Prime
...So WW is stronger than the Hercules that powers Captain Marvel. Does that make her stronger than Marvel as well?

tjcoady
which Marvel Hercules? immortal or standard?

tjcoady
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well DC has combined all thier herculeses into one. The herculese that powers captain marvel is the same one that wonder woman is stronger than. he's got a new series coming out soon.

wait, sorry. So are you saying that Wonder Woman is equal or greater in strength than Captain Marvel?

Acrosurge
Originally posted by tjcoady
wait, sorry. So are you saying that Wonder Woman is equal or greater in strength than Captain Marvel? I too am anxious to hear the response to this. I don't see Wonder Woman being stronger than Captain Marvel. The Captain is every bit the equal of Supes in physical strength, IMO. Wonder Woman is strong, but she's not that strong.

Superboy Prime
They are peers, but the whole "Diana is stronger than DC Hercules who grants Cap Marvel his strength," is a bit off IMO.

h1a8
It has been proven on canon D.C. panel that WW is stronger than the hercules that gives Captain Marvel his strength. And this does not include the limits the gods place on her power.
Also, someone in another thread mentioned that Marvel's Hercules is not greater in strength than D.C's hercules. Yet they were saying it like it was a fact. I didn't read much to see what proof or evidence they had though.

D-Block
I'm not sure if she is stronger than Marvel's Hercules since there are alot of different Gods that have the same name according to the Trials of Shazam. But WW isn't strong as Captain Marvel Since he can mesh Powers like Hercules and Atlas plus the Power of Zeus boost all the other powers anyway. If She isn't as Strong as Supes she's definitely not as strong as Capt. But she is in the area where she can fight them and trade blows for a while.

Hercules
This has been done hasn't it?

Marvel Herc has more apearences therefore more feats, but there is nothing to show a huge edge to him.

h1a8
Originally posted by D-Block
I'm not sure if she is stronger than Marvel's Hercules since there are alot of different Gods that have the same name according to the Trials of Shazam. But WW isn't strong as Captain Marvel Since he can mesh Powers like Hercules and Atlas plus the Power of Zeus boost all the other powers anyway. If She isn't as Strong as Supes she's definitely not as strong as Capt. But she is in the area where she can fight them and trade blows for a while.

Captain Marvel is far weaker than Superman. This is a fact.
There is one and only one Hercules of D.C. Thus WW is stronger than him. Captain Marvel doesn't get his powers from Atlas. And the power of Zues is of lightning (not strength). Also feat wise, WW is far stronger than Captain Marvel (but somewhat less durable).

tjcoady
Originally posted by h1a8
Captain Marvel is far weaker than Superman. This is a fact.
There is one and only one Hercules of D.C. Thus WW is stronger than him. Captain Marvel doesn't get his powers from Atlas. And the power of Zues is of lightning (not strength). Also feat wise, WW is far stronger than Captain Marvel (but somewhat less durable).

far weaker? every time they fight, it's pretty evenly matched. and what do you mean he doesn't get powers from Atlas?

Solomon
Hercules
Atlas
Zeus
Achilles
Mercury

h1a8
Originally posted by tjcoady
far weaker? every time they fight, it's pretty evenly matched. and what do you mean he doesn't get powers from Atlas?

Solomon
Hercules
Atlas
Zeus
Achilles
Mercury

Sorry. Your right. I was just thinking he doesn't get any strength from Atlas but just stamina.
But most foes with superstrength and durability seems to be evenly matched with superman. It doesn't that they have the same strength.
For example, if someone who can lift just 100,000 tons (far under Superman) but was super fast, had super durability, and flight then they to would seem to be evenly matched with superman if they fought him.

Now by logic,
Assume CM strength is greater than or equal to Superman's. Since WW is stronger than CM (as stated by D.C.) then she is stronger than Superman too. We get a contradiction as WW is not stronger than Superman. Thus the assumption CM's strength is greater or equal to Superman's is false. Hence, CM's strength is less than Superman's.

Juntai
Pretty much, they're in Supes' league, and can mess him up, and under the right conditions, possibly defeat him, but for the most part he's heads up over Diana and Billy. Especially in strength, where when he requires it, he's pretty much limitless.

Juntai
Originally posted by h1a8
Captain Marvel is far weaker than Superman. This is a fact.
There is one and only one Hercules of D.C. Thus WW is stronger than him. Captain Marvel doesn't get his powers from Atlas. And the power of Zues is of lightning (not strength). Also feat wise, WW is far stronger than Captain Marvel (but somewhat less durable). According to the Trials of Shazam, the Gods he draws from are above the Earth based ones.
Diana is above the Hercules of Earth mythology, not the one that lends Cm powers.

h1a8
Originally posted by Juntai
According to the Trials of Shazam, the Gods he draws from are above the Earth based ones.
Diana is above the Hercules of Earth mythology, not the one that lends Cm powers.

There is only one Hercules in D.C.. Which is the son of Zues.
Zues doesn't have two sons.

Dgw2007
Originally posted by h1a8
There is only one Hercules in D.C.. Which is the son of Zues.
Zues doesn't have two sons. yes he does he has 86 kids

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well DC has combined all thier herculeses into one. The herculese that powers captain marvel is the same one that wonder woman is stronger than. he's got a new series coming out soon.

IIRC WW only went up against 1 of the Hercs once, and it wasnt much of a fight as she flipped him; it was FAR from conclusive proof she was stronger than him.




Tazer

Dgw2007
this thread has 28 posts and 339 vewies

D-Block
Originally posted by h1a8
Captain Marvel is far weaker than Superman. This is a fact.
There is one and only one Hercules of D.C. Thus WW is stronger than him. Captain Marvel doesn't get his powers from Atlas. And the power of Zues is of lightning (not strength). Also feat wise, WW is far stronger than Captain Marvel (but somewhat less durable).

Captain Marvel isn't weaker than Supes. And Zeus power is used to boost the other powers, Caps Durability, and to fuel the lighting. WW feats saying that she's stronger Cap stalemated Supes in an arm wrestling contest.

spidermonkey
http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlatitans16bz.jpg

dawsey28
Personally, I think the question of "Who's stronger, CM or WW?" should be taken to the right thread. I don't see the point in arguing over it in this thread.

Dgw2007
i think ww is stonger

Soljer
Originally posted by Dgw2007
i think ww is stonger

And you're wrong. Billy draws his strength from the Lord of Magic Hercules.

Diana is stronger than the Hercules of the Greek Pantheon.

They are two VERY different entities.

h1a8
Originally posted by Soljer
And you're wrong. Billy draws his strength from the Lord of Magic Hercules.

Diana is stronger than the Hercules of the Greek Pantheon.

They are two VERY different entities.

Your wrong. Why did they use the name hercules then? For if Zues' son name was Duddy instead of Hercules then you better believe that it will be said that Cap Marvel draws his strength from Duddy. For there is only one Hercules, as the exact d.c. image of him in spirit form was shown in Trials of Shazam which wholeheartedly proves it is zues' son. It is just by the means of magic that hercules strength is duplicated in one. Just the same as Thor's hammer grants those who are worthy with his strength.

Dgw2007
*bump*

Soljer
Originally posted by h1a8
Your wrong. Why did they use the name hercules then? For if Zues' son name was Duddy instead of Hercules then you better believe that it will be said that Cap Marvel draws his strength from Duddy. For there is only one Hercules, as the exact d.c. image of him in spirit form was shown in Trials of Shazam which wholeheartedly proves it is zues' son. It is just by the means of magic that hercules strength is duplicated in one. Just the same as Thor's hammer grants those who are worthy with his strength. Jesus H Christ.

Lord of Magic are not the Greek Gods.

They happen to share the same name.

How many people do you know that are named Ryan? I know a bunch. One of them is about one hundred and ten pounds, and probably couldn't even do a pull-up.

I'm a SHIT load stronger than Ryan.

However; that doesn't make me stronger than Ryan

tjcoady
Originally posted by h1a8
Your wrong. Why did they use the name hercules then? For if Zues' son name was Duddy instead of Hercules then you better believe that it will be said that Cap Marvel draws his strength from Duddy. For there is only one Hercules, as the exact d.c. image of him in spirit form was shown in Trials of Shazam which wholeheartedly proves it is zues' son. It is just by the means of magic that hercules strength is duplicated in one. Just the same as Thor's hammer grants those who are worthy with his strength.

honestly, this just doesn't make any sense.

h1a8
Originally posted by Soljer
Jesus H Christ.

Lord of Magic are not the Greek Gods.

They happen to share the same name.

How many people do you know that are named Ryan? I know a bunch. One of them is about one hundred and ten pounds, and probably couldn't even do a pull-up.

I'm a SHIT load stronger than Ryan.

However; that doesn't make me stronger than Ryan

what are you saying? You certainly cannot deny the exact image of D.C. hercules in the Trials of Shazam. Please explain what was that was about. confused

Shazam is the acronym of all those with that particular power. It wasn't by pure chance that each name of Shazam was named after the exact counterpart which shares the same type of power. That would be a hell of a coincidence. So your argument is faulty due to it violating the "Sufficiency Principle".

And you must know that power duplication (or mirroring) is and has always been part of comics. It is just with the use of magic that powers can be duplicated or mirrored in another. This is how Mjlonir works (it grants those who are worthy with Thor's strength and power).

So whether it is the Lords of Magic or not is moot. For the exact power of each name in the acronym of Shazam is mirrored through magic to another-hence Lords of Magic. This is common sense.

Dgw2007
*bump*

Dgw2007
*BUMP*

Cap'n Happy
Originally posted by D-Block
I'm not sure if she is stronger than Marvel's Hercules since there are alot of different Gods that have the same name according to the Trials of Shazam. But WW isn't strong as Captain Marvel Since he can mesh Powers like Hercules and Atlas plus the Power of Zeus boost all the other powers anyway. If She isn't as Strong as Supes she's definitely not as strong as Capt. But she is in the area where she can fight them and trade blows for a while.

Yes. You are completely right about Cap. Marvel and the COMBINED nature of his power... it clearly makes him stronger than Diana. There are just some crazed WW fans around here- they aren't happy unless WW is "proven" to be the strongest in the DCU. Can't you like a great character without overvaluing her?
As for the Herc vs Herc debate... I go with the Marvel version. There hasn't been enough history of the DC version to get a real take on him. Obviously it should be VERY close- they are just different interpretations of the same being, after all.

Dgw2007
*BUMP*

Rorschach
One of the Hercules from the DC Universe was hurt by Wonder Girl's mom with the Gaunlets of Atlus.

CaptainStoic
Didn't Diana beat them both in relatively the same fashion? Stalemate.

Dgw2007
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Didn't Diana beat them both in relatively the same fashion? Stalemate. i think so

Dgw2007
BBBBUMP

Dgw2007
BUMP

SupremeMan
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well DC has combined all thier herculeses into one. The herculese that powers captain marvel is the same one that wonder woman is stronger than. he's got a new series coming out soon.

They have? According to "Trials of Shazam", there are literally a million entities out there with the name Hercules and the one appearing in TOS is not the same as the one appearing in Wonder Woman comics.

Assuming the OP meant the one appearing in WW comics, he's craftier and evil. Neither one of them fights with the skills of someone trained for years in combat. So they fight to a draw and then the Heracles of myth kicks both their asses.

zeel
=) sorry wonder woman is not stronger then captian marvel. And she never will be. Its all in the writing folks. DC keeps cap around casue he has alot of die hard fans. And hes on par with supes. The new captian marvel merged with the wizard shazam is bout the strongest being in dc atm. And another thing. In all reality wonderwoman captian marvel and supes are all on about the same str level and are all capeable of defeating each other. Supes has the advantage being a bit stronger then the 2. Wonderwoman has the fighting instincts as a advantage and cap in all honesty has no real weakness.

olympian
Originally posted by h1a8
Captain Marvel is far weaker than Superman. This is a fact.]

Your bull is fact.

Your sentence otoh is not. You dont have a single encounter where CM is presented as far weaker despite the *fact* he holds back more against SM than someone like WW or Orion do.

Originally posted by h1a8
There is one and only one Hercules of D.C. Thus WW is stronger than him.]

No. in *fact* post crisis so far there has been three. And WW rarely shows to be stronger than either.

Originally posted by h1a8
Captain Marvel doesn't get his powers from Atlas.]

He did. Rigth now, its Apollo. Until the whole Gods of Magic thing gets retconned out.

Originally posted by h1a8
And the power of Zues is of lightning (not strength). Also feat wise, WW is far stronger than Captain Marvel (but somewhat less durable).

Comparation wise, she isent.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Didn't Diana beat them both in relatively the same fashion? Stalemate.

She did?

The Roman Hercules in "War of The Gods" claimed he was stronger than she was and she didnt defended her side. The Greek Heracles could well be made a case since he mentioned that his bigger feats like holding the Heavens didnt happened (in the DCUverse) but comparation wise, WW never really showed to be stronger considering since she cant do those kind of feats on her own (her three biggest feats have all help of people at least in her strength class).

The Hercules who is a God of Magic now? You cant really tell, hes too green and they havent met yet. And the current one (who knows what version is this suposse to be) who bloodied Superman? I gather Johns wouldnt write WW do any better.

All around they are relatively close. Marvel Herc is ahead because hes got way more appearances and feats (who are actually in continuity at Marvelverse), as well as figthing skills showings.

In the end OTOH, Myth Herc beats either. Hes got the big feats, was a way better figther and had at least one deux ex machina plot device.

Originally posted by Juntai
According to the Trials of Shazam, the Gods he draws from are above the Earth based ones.
Diana is above the Hercules of Earth mythology, not the one that lends Cm powers.

Correction: Diana can be above (depending your writer) of the DCU version of Hercules. Myth Heracles is another monster.

Originally posted by h1a8
There is only one Hercules in D.C.. Which is the son of Zues.
Zues doesn't have two sons.

You could stop pretending to have read "Trials" by now.

h1a8
Originally posted by olympian
Your bull is fact.

Your sentence otoh is not. You dont have a single encounter where CM is presented as far weaker despite the *fact* he holds back more against SM than someone like WW or Orion do.



No. in *fact* post crisis so far there has been three. And WW rarely shows to be stronger than either.



He did. Rigth now, its Apollo. Until the whole Gods of Magic thing gets retconned out.



Comparation wise, she isent.



She did?

The Roman Hercules in "War of The Gods" claimed he was stronger than she was and she didnt defended her side. The Greek Heracles could well be made a case since he mentioned that his bigger feats like holding the Heavens didnt happened (in the DCUverse) but comparation wise, WW never really showed to be stronger considering since she cant do those kind of feats on her own (her three biggest feats have all help of people at least in her strength class).

The Hercules who is a God of Magic now? You cant really tell, hes too green and they havent met yet. And the current one (who knows what version is this suposse to be) who bloodied Superman? I gather Johns wouldnt write WW do any better.

All around they are relatively close. Marvel Herc is ahead because hes got way more appearances and feats (who are actually in continuity at Marvelverse), as well as figthing skills showings.

In the end OTOH, Myth Herc beats either. Hes got the big feats, was a way better figther and had at least one deux ex machina plot device.



Correction: Diana can be above (depending your writer) of the DCU version of Hercules. Myth Heracles is another monster.



You could stop pretending to have read "Trials" by now.

Dude, you don't know what you are talking about. Myth Hercules? WTF are you talking about? I have 5 issues of TOS. The panel shows the true Hercules (you know Zues' son). Also, power mirroring is common in comics. For example, who ever is worthy of lifting Thor's hammer then they will have the power of Thor. The hammer mirrors Thor power inside them. This is how the Gods of Magic work. They mirror Hercules strength in the person.

You would have to answer two questions before you disagree.

1. Why is it a big coincidence that the God of Magic named Hercules give super strength? Why couldn't this God of Magic give speed instead?

2. Why is the picture of Hercules (Zues' son) in the panel when Billy gets the power?

With that said, WW is stronger than Hercules according to D.C.
I don't care CM hasn't been shown to be weaker than her.
Rhino hasn't been shown to be weaker than Thing. But somehow we know he is weaker. Thing hasn't been shown to be weaker than current Colossus. But we know he is weaker. I can go on forever.
So just because a character hasn't been shown to be weaker doesn't mean that they aren't.

olympian
Originally posted by h1a8
Dude, you don't know what you are talking about. Myth Hercules? WTF are you talking about?

Do you mix Golden Age Superman with the other versions? Or the Silver Age version with the Kingdom Come version? I dont.

The same way i dont mix myth Hercules with Comic Hercules. And its only accurate to refer it so, since the Hercules WW is compared to, isent the myth one.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have 5 issues of TOS.

But you appear to have not got Winnick`s initial intent.


Originally posted by h1a8
The panel shows the true Hercules (you know Zues' son).

Because Freedy will always associate the name with the original bearer. And it may look now that Winnick is changing his initial intent, but that one was cleary that the "Gods of Magic" are NOT the "Gods of Myth" in the DCUverse. For now.

Originally posted by h1a8
You would have to answer two questions before you disagree.

1. Why is it a big coincidence that the God of Magic named Hercules give super strength? Why couldn't this God of Magic give speed instead?

Not one person said it isent supposed to mirror anything. Only that they arent the same being. With that being said, since even similiar characters or versions of the same may vary in level of power (i.e Superman and everyone else), just because one mirror`s Hercules powerset like strength, does not mean its automatically equal.

The Hercules who is a "God of Magic" hasent encountered WW yet. And neither does either person who sports his strength. So any comparations are fruitless.

Originally posted by h1a8
2. Why is the picture of Hercules (Zues' son) in the panel when Billy gets the power?

Because thats the way he sees Hercules?

Originally posted by h1a8
With that said, WW is stronger than Hercules according to D.C.

DC alone cant even be consistant with that. How mant times have you seen her defeating DCUverse Hercules in a conclusive manner? This is the same as saying "well, according to Marvel Sentry got a power worth of billion zabronies of suns"

Unless a tagline is conclusive, its useless. And so far Tags have been hyperbole for the great part.

Actually i cant think of one that actually lives up to its hyperbole.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't care CM hasn't been shown to be weaker than her.

Ah, you dont care?

Well, we do. Because it matters. As obviously its going to sound.

Originally posted by h1a8
Rhino hasn't been shown to be weaker than Thing.

Yes he has.

Originally posted by h1a8
But somehow we know he is weaker

If by "somehow" you mean having a damn worse track record (if not the worse at Marvel among bricks) and not winning a single major figth since a decade ago (and i am being gentle), yes we "somehow" know.

*laughs*

Originally posted by h1a8
Thing hasn't been shown to be weaker than current Colossus. But we know he is weaker. I can go on forever.

Please, dont. Because you arent correct in this one either.

The only way you would think Ben is any weaker than Colossus is if you bough your "cl 100 Colossus" church badge.

Originally posted by h1a8
So just because a character hasn't been shown to be weaker doesn't mean that they aren't.

Thats them great thinking there, Sherlock.

h1a8
Originally posted by olympian
Do you mix Golden Age Superman with the other versions? Or the Silver Age version with the Kingdom Come version? I dont.

The same way i dont mix myth Hercules with Comic Hercules. And its only accurate to refer it so, since the Hercules WW is compared to, isent the myth one.



But you appear to have not got Winnick`s initial intent.




Because Freedy will always associate the name with the original bearer. And it may look now that Winnick is changing his initial intent, but that one was cleary that the "Gods of Magic" are NOT the "Gods of Myth" in the DCUverse. For now.



Not one person said it isent supposed to mirror anything. Only that they arent the same being. With that being said, since even similiar characters or versions of the same may vary in level of power (i.e Superman and everyone else), just because one mirror`s Hercules powerset like strength, does not mean its automatically equal.

The Hercules who is a "God of Magic" hasent encountered WW yet. And neither does either person who sports his strength. So any comparations are fruitless.



Because thats the way he sees Hercules?



DC alone cant even be consistant with that. How mant times have you seen her defeating DCUverse Hercules in a conclusive manner? This is the same as saying "well, according to Marvel Sentry got a power worth of billion zabronies of suns"

Unless a tagline is conclusive, its useless. And so far Tags have been hyperbole for the great part.

Actually i cant think of one that actually lives up to its hyperbole.



Ah, you dont care?

Well, we do. Because it matters. As obviously its going to sound.



Yes he has.



If by "somehow" you mean having a damn worse track record (if not the worse at Marvel among bricks) and not winning a single major figth since a decade ago (and i am being gentle), yes we "somehow" know.

*laughs*



Please, dont. Because you arent correct in this one either.

The only way you would think Ben is any weaker than Colossus is if you bough your "cl 100 Colossus" church badge.



Thats them great thinking there, Sherlock.

So you are saying that even though CM is supposed to be granted the strength of Hercules (as defined by Shazam the wizard) then this mirrored strength could be greater by the actual Hercules? If you are saying this then I guess Shazam the wizard and D.C. are liars for saying he has the strength of Hercules and not a strength greater than Hercules. Also when does power mirrors in comics give more strength than the original? Eric Masterson wasn't stronger than the real Thor.

Second, you and others seem to think that strength determines who wins in comics. This is almost never. If that was so then Spider-man would have never beaten Rhino. Skills, speed, cheapshots, luck, PIS, durability, weapons, and other powers determines 99% of comic outcomes, not strength alone. To be shown stronger would mean that one overpowered another in a tussle, or one lifted an amount the other couldn't (the other showed lift limits), and not because one has a better track record than another.

And it doesn't matter whether the Gods of Magic are the Gods of Myth
in D.C. granted CM his strength. The authors (Winnick) and writers want us to go by their intentions. And that is CM is granted the actual strength of the Mighty Hercules (as stated and shown in the 6th book of TOS) in D.C. Doesn't matter if Hercules himself granted the strength or Bozo the clown did. Just as long as he has that exact strength.

True, hyperbole exists in comics. But hyperbole is only hyperbole if it is proven to be, otherwise it isn't. CM has never been proven stronger than WW. I've never seen them wrestle and CM overpowered her. I never seen either of them fail to lift any weight they tried. So it is not yet hyperbole for D.C. to say that she is stronger than him. Even if CM beats her in a fight it means nothing in terms of whose stronger (unless CM is shown to overpower her physically through tussling).

Tron
Originally posted by zeel
The new captian marvel merged with the wizard shazam is bout the strongest being in dc atm.

Dude, Freddy Freeman didn't merge with Shazam. Billy Batson became Shazam, and Feeman's about to become the new Captain Marvel.

olympian
Originally posted by h1a8
So you are saying that even though CM is supposed to be granted the strength of Hercules (as defined by Shazam the wizard) then this mirrored strength could be greater by the actual Hercules?

Im saying that rigth now you have two different versions running around, that writers have portraited in different levels.

And you used to have three, before.

Or if you are asking why cant we compare every single Hercules version equally with the Myth Hercules, the reason is cleary the same of why all Supermen arent equally written either.

Originally posted by h1a8
If you are saying this then I guess Shazam the wizard and D.C. are liars for saying he has the strength of Hercules and not a strength greater than Hercules. Also when does power mirrors in comics give more strength than the original? Eric Masterson wasn't stronger than the real Thor.

Marvel doesnt have several versions of Thor running around, thus Thor`s strength level is consistantly well gauged by the large bulk of Marvel writers.

Put it this way: Pre crisis had four different Hercules running around. The Hercules in "WW" title was not the same as the Hercules that powered CM on his own Earth, neither the same that became part of Kamandi Future (another Earth altogether) or the same that used to show up on "Action Comics" as a foil for Superman.

As seen: The Hercules in "WW" was on her level, while the one on "Action" was on Superman`s level strength wise speaking. Its the same guy used but in different ways, with dfferent versions, and different levels according to writers.

I mean really, you even give the logic as to why during the pre crisis days, WW couldnt be stronger than him. He was the one giving her strength.

Originally posted by h1a8
Second, you and others seem to think that strength determines who wins in comics. This is almost never. If that was so then Spider-man would have never beaten Rhino. Skills, speed, cheapshots, luck, PIS, durability, weapons, and other powers determines 99% of comic outcomes, not strength alone.

When refering to Rhino and Thing, i made myself clear. Strengtwise Thing got a consistantly better strength record than Rhino does. Rhino only got something like two or three figths with Hulk in the 70`s that peg him higher. What about the rest?

Mostly crap. Nowaydays hes made into cannon fodder for 2/5 tonners like Kraven.

Originally posted by h1a8
To be shown stronger would mean that one overpowered another in a tussle, or one lifted an amount the other couldn't (the other showed lift limits), and not because one has a better track record than another.

Bravo, Sherlock.

Hey, didnt CM with a broken arm faired well physically against WW and some others in "Underworld Unleashed"?

Originally posted by h1a8
And it doesn't matter whether the Gods of Magic are the Gods of Myth
in D.C. granted CM his strength. The authors (Winnick) and writers want us to go by their intentions.

An intention you cleary missed even with one of the main characters saying rigth in the second issue of the run, how they arent the same beings despite using the same "titles".

Originally posted by h1a8
And that is CM is granted the actual strength of the Mighty Hercules (as stated and shown in the 6th book of TOS) in D.C. Doesn't matter if Hercules himself granted the strength or Bozo the clown did. Just as long as he has that exact strength.

An "exact" strength that you cant compare with anyone else yet, and only assume. Because while the name is the same, the animal in question so far isent.

Me? I dont assume.

Originally posted by h1a8
True, hyperbole exists in comics. But hyperbole is only hyperbole if it is proven to be, otherwise it isn't.

*claps*

Originally posted by h1a8
CM has never been proven stronger than WW

His bouts with WW and Superman tell me otherwise.

Originally posted by h1a8
I've never seen them wrestle and CM overpowered her. I never seen either of them fail to lift any weight they tried. So it is not yet hyperbole for D.C. to say that she is stronger than him. Even if CM beats her in a fight it means nothing in terms of whose stronger (unless CM is shown to overpower her physically through tussling).

Since i have never seen WW do the same either, why would i accept the tagline?

Especially when CM got at least two straigh up strength stalemates with Superman in form of amrwrestling matches?

h1a8
Originally posted by olympian
Im saying that rigth now you have two different versions running around, that writers have portraited in different levels.

And you used to have three, before.

Or if you are asking why cant we compare every single Hercules version equally with the Myth Hercules, the reason is cleary the same of why all Supermen arent equally written either.



Marvel doesnt have several versions of Thor running around, thus Thor`s strength level is consistantly well gauged by the large bulk of Marvel writers.

Put it this way: Pre crisis had four different Hercules running around. The Hercules in "WW" title was not the same as the Hercules that powered CM on his own Earth, neither the same that became part of Kamandi Future (another Earth altogether) or the same that used to show up on "Action Comics" as a foil for Superman.

As seen: The Hercules in "WW" was on her level, while the one on "Action" was on Superman`s level strength wise speaking. Its the same guy used but in different ways, with dfferent versions, and different levels according to writers.

I mean really, you even give the logic as to why during the pre crisis days, WW couldnt be stronger than him. He was the one giving her strength.



When refering to Rhino and Thing, i made myself clear. Strengtwise Thing got a consistantly better strength record than Rhino does. Rhino only got something like two or three figths with Hulk in the 70`s that peg him higher. What about the rest?

Mostly crap. Nowaydays hes made into cannon fodder for 2/5 tonners like Kraven.



Bravo, Sherlock.

Hey, didnt CM with a broken arm faired well physically against WW and some others in "Underworld Unleashed"?



An intention you cleary missed even with one of the main characters saying rigth in the second issue of the run, how they arent the same beings despite using the same "titles".



An "exact" strength that you cant compare with anyone else yet, and only assume. Because while the name is the same, the animal in question so far isent.

Me? I dont assume.



*claps*



His bouts with WW and Superman tell me otherwise.



Since i have never seen WW do the same either, why would i accept the tagline?

Especially when CM got at least two straigh up strength stalemates with Superman in form of amrwrestling matches?

Ok you are right. I just read the 2nd issue. It does say that the only thing common the Lords of Magic have with the Olympic Gods are their titles. But wasn't this was changed during this run by Winnick? Before, it was understood (by the original writer's intention) that the strength of Olympian Hercules is what CM had.

I always thought it was one Hercules in D.C. I know pre-crisis is a different Hercules than post-crisis so this is understandable (were the olympians protected during the crisis though?) But even in the post-crisis era, are there really more than 1 Hercules running around? If so, then can you show or tell me where you read this (or show me the two or more Hercules or tell the issue numbers). The reason why I ask is because it seems absurb to me that there are more than one post-crisis Hercules running around in D.C. (not including the Lords of Magic). But thanks for the clarification.

olympian
Originally posted by h1a8
Ok you are right. I just read the 2nd issue. It does say that the only thing common the Lords of Magic have with the Olympic Gods are their titles. But wasn't this was changed during this run by Winnick? Before, it was understood (by the original writer's intention) that the strength of Olympian Hercules is what CM had.

Before, the Gods of Myth powered both. Winnick changed that because he didnt wanted comparations between them.

In fact, to your credit, the whole confusion is understandable because the execution so far hasent been 5 stars. I like the idea but when the artist starts showing those figures behind these new guys as the ones of Myth it only makes it worse.

Originally posted by h1a8
I always thought it was one Hercules in D.C. I know pre-crisis is a different Hercules than post-crisis so this is understandable (were the olympians protected during the crisis though?)

They fough during the first crisis against those Monitor minions that wer killing all earths, And i think they survived. The pre crisis WW "happy ending" showed her being welcomed among them, after the "new"version replaced her.

Originally posted by h1a8
But even in the post-crisis era, are there really more than 1 Hercules running around?

Discounting the "God of Magic", rigth after crisis and in the end of Perez initial run we find out that there is the Greek Heracles and the Roman Hercules. Once upon a time the same being but separated into avatars to cover up the growth in faith among the human population.

It was showed on Perez final WW stage crossover "War of The Gods".

Frankly? Dont bother by it. The execution wasent much better than the current Trials and only added more confusion about the character.

Originally posted by h1a8
If so, then can you show or tell me where you read this (or show me the two or more Hercules or tell the issue numbers). The reason why I ask is because it seems absurb to me that there are more than one post-crisis Hercules running around in D.C. (not including the Lords of Magic). But thanks for the clarification.

Its all in "War of The Gods" crossover. Altho they emerge later on again, like the rest of the Godly cast. There was a Jupiter for Zeus as well, etc.

And yes, its absurd. The pre crisis thing i can understand: Hercules, like Superman, WW and etc became such icons that each Earth got theyr version. Its a simple enough (i guess) concept.

Post crisis? It migth be an artist rendition thing, but the Hercules that started showing up in Heinberg`s run visually resembles the old pre crisis "Hercules Unbound" character but still acts as the same douche of the post crisis "Perez/Byrne etc" version. Confusion TM.

Its mostly meh.

Dgw2007
bump

Bouboumaster
Marvel Hercules is far cooler

fangirl101
They are probably both the same at thier best. Immortal Herc and DC herc seem to both have top tier strength and durability.

UKR
Marvel Hercules will win. He's among the most powerful gods in the MU but DC Hercules isn't really that powerful. Marvel's Herk is as powerful as Thor, that puts him easily above WW and far beyond someone who's weaker than Diana.

Soljer
Originally posted by UKR
Marvel's Herk is as powerful as Thor, that puts him easily above WW

laughing.

fangirl101
Originally posted by UKR
Marvel Hercules will win. He's among the most powerful gods in the MU but DC Hercules isn't really that powerful. Marvel's Herk is as powerful as Thor, that puts him easily above WW and far beyond someone who's weaker than Diana.

DC herc was totally able to dish it out to Superman and then take it. He only had problems with the higher than top tier Kingdom Superman.

CaptainStoic
I'd say that they are the same guy from different universes, and will stalemate.


5/10 either way.

KMC's Superboy
bump

comicfan11
Currently DC Herc is depowered to half of his strength (Wonder Girl #6)
But still he took it to Superman and bloodied him and stood up to Gog's blasts.
I still say it's a split between the 2 Hercs but I'd like two see them both at their top levels.

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