Who can survive this blast?

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Endless Mike
http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mmnx9.jpg

Who (Besides PR Beyonder, of course) can survive being hit by this?

StyleTime
From what I hear of Lord of Nightmares, I suppose she could.

DARKLORDCAEDUS
Any version of the Hulk.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by DARKLORDCAEDUS
Any version of the Hulk.

Yes folks, Hulk >>> a Billion Dimensions.

The comment by Beyonder sounds like obvious hyperbole though...Hulk probably would survive it.

Endless Mike
For the sake of this thread assume it's not

Galan007
Lucifer

kevdude
Superman! (had to be said) big grin

Akuki
Lord of Nightmares, possibly MJJ combined with the fury, also TOAA and Presence, and Spectre.

kevdude
The Word, The Living Tribunal come to mind

guy222
Originally posted by Endless Mike
http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mmnx9.jpg

Who (Besides PR Beyonder, of course) can survive being hit by this?

Living Tribunal

Endless Mike
Originally posted by guy222
Living Tribunal

LT back then begged Molecule Man for help, but it seems he's gotten stronger since then so you may be right.

Phenomenol
Yeah LT has become much stronger since then.

I would have to go with Lucifer.

guy222
Originally posted by Endless Mike
LT back then begged Molecule Man for help, but it seems he's gotten stronger since then so you may be right.

He has

23 yrs later all Reece and Man from Beyond have gotten is retconned

CaptainStoic
Juggernaut would survive it.

Erik-Lensherr
The Presence shouldn't even be included in the question . As for who would survive , quite a few characters come into mind .

gogogadgetgo
martian manhunter, vision and kitty pride stick out tongue laughing laughing out loud

KMC_Drifter
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Juggernaut would survive it.

Juggy wouldn't survive that. That blast>>>>>>>>>>power of Cyttorak

Air Legend
Originally posted by guy222
He has

23 yrs later all Reece and Man from Beyond have gotten is retconned

Yes it has displayed stronger feats, but the LT has never been retconned. Therefore, PR Beyonder>PR Molecule Man> Living Tribunal.

Air Legend
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yes folks, Hulk >>> a Billion Dimensions.

The comment by Beyonder sounds like obvious hyperbole though...Hulk probably would survive it.

How is it obvious hyperbole?

Here is MM repairing a multiverse-wide destruction caused by the Beyonder with his finger.
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderdestructionacrossmultiverse2gv0.jpg

And you're cynical about MM being able to fire a billion dimension blast?

janus77
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yes folks, Hulk >>> a Billion Dimensions.

The comment by Beyonder sounds like obvious hyperbole though...Hulk probably would survive it.
it's backed up by plenty of other comments of a similar nature.
most pointedly, it's consonant with what Apocalypse says his Celestial Tech tells him about Hulk (that he possesses energies great enough to perhaps challenge The Celestials).

smile

TheTick
Solar Man Of The Atom

shifty

CaptainStoic
Juggernaut would survive it because his powers are mystical, which means that they bend the normal laws of physics, and that cosmic blast is most certainly physical in nature.

Skeets
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Juggernaut would survive it because his powers are mystical, which means that they bend the normal laws of physics, and that cosmic blast is most certainly physical in nature.
What the hell? haermm

boriquaking55
Squirrel Girl - she'd proceed to nutslam that fool immediately afterwards

llagrok
Originally posted by janus77
it's backed up by plenty of other comments of a similar nature.
most pointedly, it's consonant with what Apocalypse says his Celestial Tech tells him about Hulk (that he possesses energies great enough to perhaps challenge The Celestials).

smile

And power that could PERHAPS challenge the celestials >> PR molecule man dur

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Juggernaut would survive it because his powers are mystical, which means that they bend the normal laws of physics, and that cosmic blast is most certainly physical in nature.

Do you dress yourself in the morning?

Utrigita
Originally posted by Air Legend
Yes it has displayed stronger feats, but the LT has never been retconned. Therefore, PR Beyonder>PR Molecule Man> Living Tribunal.

In a sort of way he has been retconned, We have seen Living Tribunal holding two MEGAVERSES in his hands and just as easy destroy them. I think that outclass a billion dimensions by quiet a few steps erm Also the LT back then governed a Multiverse the LT today govern a Omniverse which include the Beyonders a race that appear more Powerful then Pre-retcon Beyonder seeing what but a minute part of there power can do, and they are still below LT.

But again the Marvel has changed

today:
(excluding TOAA) LT> All of Marvel (pre ore post)

Back then:
(No mention of TOAA) Pre-retcon Beyonder > All of marvel

Just my openion.

StyleTime
Originally posted by boriquaking55
Squirrel Girl - she'd proceed to nutslam that fool immediately afterwards
Hee hee hee.

You said nutslam.

janus77
Originally posted by llagrok
And power that could PERHAPS challenge the celestials >> PR molecule man dur
I can see some resemblance between you and the 'dur' emoticon, in a figurative sense. you have those moments don't you?

that blast wasn't a reflection of the potential of Molecule Man, nor of the uberness of The Beyonder's durability. it was merely a powerful blast.

that it might have demolished dimensions may be true but sub-MM/Beyonder characters would survive such a blast.

therefore your "The Celestials >> PR MM" formulation (and attendant folly of over eager ridicule) is merely indicative of your lack of appreciation for complex arguments and situations.



personally I doubt if The Hulk would survive a Universe destroying blast, let-alone one that destroys dimensions. my point was with respect to the dismissal of - underrating of - The Hulk's powers. which is why I pointed out how highly his potential is written up.


I think Galactus and some of the higher oder Celestials should survive it, perhaps even Odin (I think there's a scan wherein a battle is said to shake dimensions?).

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by janus77
I can see some resemblance between you and the 'dur' emoticon, in a figurative sense. you have those moments don't you?

that blast wasn't a reflection of the potential of Molecule Man, nor of the uberness of The Beyonder's durability. it was merely a powerful blast.

that it might have demolished dimensions may be true but sub-MM/Beyonder characters would survive such a blast.

Beyonder surviving a blast is not indicative of anything else being able to survive it.

llagrok
Originally posted by janus77
I can see some resemblance between you and the 'dur' emoticon, in a figurative sense. you have those moments don't you?

that blast wasn't a reflection of the potential of Molecule Man, nor of the uberness of The Beyonder's durability. it was merely a powerful blast.

that it might have demolished dimensions may be true but sub-MM/Beyonder characters would survive such a blast.

therefore your "The Celestials >> PR MM" formulation (and attendant folly of over eager ridicule) is merely indicative of your lack of appreciation for complex arguments and situations.

personally I doubt if The Hulk would survive a Universe destroying blast, let-alone one that destroys dimensions. my point was with respect to the dismissal of - underrating of - The Hulk's powers. which is why I pointed out how highly his potential is written up.

I think Galactus and some of the higher oder Celestials should survive it, perhaps even Odin (I think there's a scan wherein a battle is said to shake dimensions?).

People claimed that Hulk wouldn't be able to survive it, and somehow you feel the need to prove that they're underestimating him by bringing up an example of him not being nearly strong enough to compete with MM :/

Not a lot of characters can survive blasts that would destroy a billion universes. I never claimed that MM was using the full extent of his powers, but it's reasonable to believe that he didn't hold back too much. He was agitated, people who angry and upset normally don't hold back too much. He was obviously trying to hurt the beyonder.

Do you think people should say "The Hulk would lose, but at full potential he could perhaps rival celestials" every time he's pitted against someone he would lose against? Apocalypse has been wrong before, there is no guarantee that his estimate is correct.

janus77
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Beyonder surviving a blast is not indicative of anything else being able to survive it.
I didn't suggest that it was.
I merely pointed out that 1) it wasn't indicative of the potential of MM since he clearly wasn't going "all out", 2) that The Beyonder wasn't much troubled at all, again indicating that it's not straining his powers and 3) those two facts put together mean that a character would not have to be ">>>PR Beyonder" in order to survive such a blast.

if you want an analogy, say Superman does one of his strong punches against DD and DD just flinches a little. doesn't mean Wonder Woman or GL or MM wouldn't survive such a blow now, does it?


(and don't go thinking about Superman blowing MM ... confused )

llagrok
Whether he was going all out or not is a matter of interpretation.

Full potential or not, Hulk would not survive it.

janus77
Originally posted by llagrok
People claimed that Hulk wouldn't be able to survive it, and somehow you feel the need to prove that they're underestimating him by bringing up an example of him not being nearly strong enough to compete with MM :/

Not a lot of characters can survive blasts that would destroy a billion universes. I never claimed that MM was using the full extent of his powers, but it's reasonable to believe that he didn't hold back too much. He was agitated, people who angry and upset normally don't hold back too much. He was obviously trying to hurt the beyonder.

Do you think people should say "The Hulk would lose, but at full potential he could perhaps rival celestials" every time he's pitted against someone he would lose against? Apocalypse has been wrong before, there is no guarantee that his estimate is correct.
did you see the context of the original posting I made?

digimark actually said Hulk probably would survive it. something I'm sceptical of, but not my point.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by janus77
I didn't suggest that it was.
I merely pointed out that 1) it wasn't indicative of the potential of MM since he clearly wasn't going "all out", 2) that The Beyonder wasn't much troubled at all, again indicating that it's not straining his powers and 3) those two facts put together mean that a character would not have to be ">>>PR Beyonder" in order to survive such a blast.

if you want an analogy, say Superman does one of his strong punches against DD and DD just flinches a little. doesn't mean Wonder Woman or GL or MM wouldn't survive such a blow now, does it?

I understand the concept perfectly well. It really just means the the force is utterly and completely arbitrary.

So it's meaningless for you to say Beyonder wasn't the only person who could survive such a blast.

Originally posted by janus77
(and don't go thinking about Superman blowing MM ... confused )

Weird I was thinking of WW . . .

janus77
Originally posted by llagrok
Whether he was going all out or not is a matter of interpretation.

Full potential or not, Hulk would not survive it.
again, your animus for this fictional - comic book - character aside, you do realise you're missing the point?


I was contending your poor formulation, your rash judgement and your lack of grasp of things.... gah no expression why bother ... no expression

llagrok
Originally posted by janus77
did you see the context of the original posting I made?

digimark actually said Hulk probably would survive it. something I'm sceptical of, but not my point.

I thought it was related to a different post than Digi's, my bad.

janus77
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I understand the concept perfectly well. It really just means the the force is utterly and completely arbitrary.

So it's meaningless for you to say Beyonder wasn't the only person who could survive such a blast.



Weird I was thinking of WW . . .
1) how/what could he blow there? confused

and 2) if the attack/defence is not at the fullest extent of either beyonder or mm's powers, then surely it is open to speculation that other - sub-mm/beyonder - characters might survive it?

llagrok
What characters do you think would survive the blast?

janus77
dunno, I'd speculate the usual suspects, Galactus, Celestials etc. but can't say for sure... shattering dimensions is a big ask.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by janus77
1) how/what could he blow there? confused

Other way . . .

Originally posted by janus77
and 2) if the attack/defence is not at the fullest extent of either beyonder or mm's powers, then surely it is open to speculation that other - sub-mm/beyonder - characters might survive it?

Well if the two most powerful creatures in reality fight and neither kills the other the ability to say that others could survive is meaningless since for realistic purposes it means nothing.

Had we not been given the "destroy a billion dimensions" tidbit one could say that AuntMay (to use the classic example) might have survived the blast. Then again Galactus or the LivingTribunal might have too.

Speculation on that kind of level doesn't give any information IMO.

Air Legend
Originally posted by Utrigita
In a sort of way he has been retconned, We have seen Living Tribunal holding two MEGAVERSES in his hands and just as easy destroy them. I think that outclass a billion dimensions by quiet a few steps erm

Yes the LT has displayed more impressive feats but that is not the same thing as a retcon.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Also the LT back then governed a Multiverse the LT today govern a Omniverse
That's because all of Marvel was a multiverse back then.
Originally posted by Utrigita
which include the Beyonders a race that appear more Powerful then Pre-retcon Beyonder seeing what but a minute part of there power can do, and they are still below LT.
no PR Beyonder was amazing. He performed many incredible feats including one of the most impressive feats in comic history- wiping all of Death from existance.
Respect Classic Beyonder cool
Originally posted by Utrigita
But again the Marvel has changed
Yes it has.
Originally posted by Utrigita
today:
(excluding TOAA) LT> All of Marvel (pre ore post)
For the most, I think this is true. I think there are anomalies like Scathan if I'm not correct? Officially the LT's only superior is TOAA so that's why I'm agreeing.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Back then:
(No mention of TOAA) Pre-retcon Beyonder > All of marvel
thumb up
Originally posted by Utrigita
Just my openion.
Well I wasn't going to say anything about this, but the correct way to spell it is "opinion". Probably just a typo. smile

Phenomenol
Originally posted by Air Legend
How is it obvious hyperbole?

It could be, the room or nothing else is even getting damaged from the blast. But then again that's comics.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Phenomenol
It could be, the room or nothing else is even getting damaged from the blast. But then again that's comics.

Because the Beyonder funneled it into another dimension (an ability he's demonstrated to have).

guy222
Originally posted by Air Legend
Yes it has displayed stronger feats, but the LT has never been retconned. Therefore, PR Beyonder>PR Molecule Man> Living Tribunal.

I know LT has never been retconned. Owen Reece has. Beyonder has been retconned four times.

Phenomenol
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Because the Beyonder funneled it into another dimension (an ability he's demonstrated to have).

Where did he say that?

I see Beyonder getting blasted and nothing in the room gets damaged.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Phenomenol
Where did he say that?

I see Beyonder getting blasted and nothing in the room gets damaged.

It's based on what we know he can do. He's demonstrated that power before, so it's a logical assumption.

llagrok
Originally posted by Phenomenol
Where did he say that?

I see Beyonder getting blasted and nothing in the room gets damaged.

Seeing as MM considered the Beyonder a threat to his girlfriend and such, I doubt he would wreck the planet or even the room. He can still focus the blast you know.

Phenomenol
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's based on what we know he can do. He's demonstrated that power before, so it's a logical assumption.

It really isn't logical because it shows Beyonder TAKING the blast not funneling it anywhere.

You can't make up your own logic for comics.

llagrok
Originally posted by Phenomenol
It really isn't logical because it shows Beyonder TAKING the blast not funneling it anywhere.

You can't make up your own logic for comics.

And I claimed different?

Endless Mike
It's logical, because he's demonstrated that power, and he was shown to be coughing from the blast, so it affected him (when he's taken such amazing hits before and not even been affected), so it's a logical assumption.

Sarutobi700
Goku

Sandai Kitetsu
Light Hawk Wings

TheTick
Originally posted by Sarutobi700
Goku laughing laughing laughing

Phenomenol
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's logical, because he's demonstrated that power, and he was shown to be coughing from the blast, so it affected him (when he's taken such amazing hits before and not even been affected), so it's a logical assumption.

Not really because the comic actions and words contradict what you want to happen.

The beyonder defined the blast as being that powerful and the entire room is still intact?

That's because in comic book land these things happen.

Sandai Kitetsu
Originally posted by TheTick
laughing laughing laughing

And, What's stopping Goku from countering with a Super Kamaehameha that can destroy a trillion dimensions!!! dur

Utrigita
Originally posted by Air Legend
Yes the LT has displayed more impressive feats but that is not the same thing as a retcon.

That's because all of Marvel was a multiverse back then.

no PR Beyonder was amazing. He performed many incredible feats including one of the most impressive feats in comic history- wiping all of Death from existance.
Respect Classic Beyonder cool

Yes it has.

For the most, I think this is true. I think there are anomalies like Scathan if I'm not correct? Officially the LT's only superior is TOAA so that's why I'm agreeing.

thumb up

Well I wasn't going to say anything about this, but the correct way to spell it is "opinion". Probably just a typo. smile

I also think in a short of way we have to do with a retcon I didn't say official retcon but never the less his powerlevels has changed.

Correct but we have a omniverse now and even back then I doubt we would have seen LT holding universes in his palm.

He wiped Death from the multiverse a cosmic Cube that contains a minute part of the true Beyonders power have destroyed and remaked the Omniverse (everything outside of time and space too as far as I know) that IMO above destroying death. But I also respect Beyonder.

Scathan sad bad writing IMO the handbook contradicts itself on that point.

laughing yes a Typo (opinion)

guy222
Originally posted by Utrigita
I also think in a short of way we have to do with a retcon I didn't say official retcon but never the less his powerlevels has changed.

Correct but we have a omniverse now and even back then I doubt we would have seen LT holding universes in his palm.

He wiped Death from he multiverse a cosmic Cube that contains a minute part of the true Beyonders power have destroyed and remaked the Omniverse (everything outside of time and space two as far as I know) that IMO above destroying death. But I also respect Beyonder.

Scathan sad bad writing IMO the handbook contradicts itself on that point.

laughing yes a Typo (opinion)

Bad writing happens. Like it or not, Scathan the Approver was in some issues. Helping LT defeat Protege. As a Celestial fan, I liked it big grin

Air Legend
Originally posted by Utrigita
He wiped Death from the multiverse a cosmic Cube that contains a minute part of the true Beyonders power have destroyed and remaked the Omniverse (everything outside of time and space too as far as I know) that IMO above destroying death. But I also respect Beyonder.


I don't think all the true beyonders combined would have the power to wipe all of death from existence. Besides even if they did, the LT wouldn't allow it. smile

guy222
Originally posted by Air Legend
I don't think all the true beyonders combined would have the power to wipe all of death from existence. Besides even if they did, the LT wouldn't allow it. smile

One of Beyonder's retcon is he was made by the Beyonders allowed by LT.

Air Legend
Originally posted by guy222
One of Beyonder's retcon is he was made by the Beyonders allowed by LT.
...and your point is?

guy222
Originally posted by Air Legend
...and your point is?

Beyonder killed Death. Beyonders can also. Its speculation, but Beyonders are greater than Beyonder and Owen Reece

Air Legend
Originally posted by guy222
Beyonder killed Death. Beyonders can also. Its speculation, but Beyonders are greater than Beyonder and Owen Reece

They are now because Beyonder and Owen Reece got retconned. Don't you get it?

Utrigita
Originally posted by Air Legend
I don't think all the true beyonders combined would have the power to wipe all of death from existence. Besides even if they did, the LT wouldn't allow it. smile

He wouldn't but if we take the LT from the secret wars then he wasn't gonna be capable of doing anything of that kind against the current Beyonders.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Air Legend
They are now because Beyonder and Owen Reece got retconned. Don't you get it?

I will still say that the current Beyonders are above pre-retcon Beyonder but its speculation so its all just ones different opinion on the subject.

guy222
Originally posted by Utrigita
I will still say that the current Beyonders are above pre-retcon Beyonder but its speculation so its all just ones different opinion on the subject.

Beyonders are

Beyonder is an Inhuman(Wat a joke)

Has anyone seen Owen Reece?

Galan007
Originally posted by Endless Mike
LT back then begged Molecule Man for help No he didn't. confused

Utrigita
Uatu did, LT said what... 5 words during the entire Secret Wars II "Thus passed the old ways"

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Galan007
No he didn't. confused

Yeah, he was among the group of cosmics begging for MM's help against the Beyonder

Galan007
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yeah, he was among the group of cosmics begging for MM's help against the Beyonder I saw Utau and Eternity plea to MM.

LT never did anything.

Air Legend
Originally posted by Utrigita
He wouldn't but if we take the LT from the secret wars then he wasn't gonna be capable of doing anything of that kind against the current Beyonders.
Yes he would because the LT was never officially retconned.
Originally posted by Utrigita
I will still say that the current Beyonders are above pre-retcon Beyonder but its speculation so its all just ones different opinion on the subject.
Classic Beyonder was greater than all of Marvel.
All the true Beyonders combined are less than the LT who is less than Classic Beyonder since the LT was never officially retconned.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
I saw Utau and Eternity plea to MM.

LT never did anything.

But the In-Betweener refered to all the Cosmics there (including the LT)

as being "Desperate" because of the Beyonder.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8454/ibej9.th.jpg


So while the LT said nothing, the LT did feel the same despair as the rest.

A feeling of helplessness and hopelessness.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
But the In-Betweener refered to all the Cosmics there (including the LT)

as being "Desperate" because of the Beyonder.


So while the LT said nothing, the LT did feel the same despair as the rest.

A feeling of helplessness and hopelessness.

This was the original statement:
Originally posted by Endless Mike
LT back then begged Molecule Man for help .


These were my responses to that:
Originally posted by Galan007
No he didn't. confused
Originally posted by Galan007
I saw Utau and Eternity plea to MM.

LT never did anything. What I stated was very much correct.

Though LT was one of the beings featured when the other beings were begging to MM.... LT himself, did nothing. smile

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
This was the original statement:
.

These were my responses to that:

What I stated was very much correct.

smile

Originally posted by Galan007
Though LT was one of the beings featured when the other beings were begging to MM.... LT himself, did nothing.

Except feel Desperation due to the Beyonder. stick out tongue


Desperate:

"feeling, showing,
or involving a hopeless sense that a situation is so bad as to be impossible to deal with"

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
smile



Except feel Desperation due to the Beyonder. stick out tongue Un-vocally feeling something, isn't the same as begging. stick out tongue

Air Legend
Originally posted by Galan007
Un-vocally feeling something, isn't the same as begging. stick out tongue
He didn't say the LT was begging. You said the LT did nothing and Master pointed out that the LT did do something- feel desperaton. stick out tongue

Utrigita
Originally posted by Air Legend
Yes he would because the LT was never officially retconned.

Classic Beyonder was greater than all of Marvel.
All the true Beyonders combined are less than the LT who is less than Classic Beyonder since the LT was never officially retconned.

No he hasn't but as previous explained he has received power upgrades du to the expantion of the marvel universe.

He was yes in 86, today even if he would still exist with TOAA have come into the picture and the Handbook specify LT being the only below him I would put current LT above the Old Beyonder the LT back then is another story.

Air Legend
Originally posted by Utrigita
No he hasn't but as previous explained he has received power upgrades du to the expantion of the marvel universe.
He didn't receive an upgrade, that would be the same as a retcon. The LT has simply performed more impressive feats since then.
Originally posted by Utrigita
He was yes in 86, today even if he would still exist with TOAA have come into the picture and the Handbook specify LT being the only below him I would put current LT above the Old Beyonder the LT back then is another story.
First of all, the handbook would be different if Classic Beyonder still existed. Why is it so hard for you to admit that Classic Beyonder is greater than the LT?

Utrigita
Originally posted by Air Legend
He didn't receive an upgrade, that would be the same as a retcon. The LT has simply performed more impressive feats since then.

First of all, the handbook would be different if Classic Beyonder still existed. Why is it so hard for you to admit that Classic Beyonder is greater than the LT?

So you don't think holding and crushing two megaverses in his palm is a upgrade??? and he couldn't have preformed it back in 86 where the marvel universe was just a multiverse today its a omniverse.

I really doesn't think so, Jim Shooter who created Beyonder would have been in charge no longer, and thus Beyonder would have been downplayed to be below the LT, he created him to be the supreme being and he was, but it changed and even if the next editor hadn't hated beyonder he would still have downplayed his significans and most certainly his level of power in regarding to LT. And even if the editor hadn't hated beyonder he would still have been tied to the Beyonders and thus being Below LT, no matter how you turn it the Handbook today and the handbook from that back is hard to use because a lot have happend both inside of marvel and on the outside as well.

I'm not having a problem with the Classic Beyonder being above the 86 LT but again IMO the LT that exist today is above Classic Beyonder. Perhaps you doesn't see a difference between the two but I do.

Astner
Originally posted by StyleTime
From what I hear of Lord of Nightmares, I suppose she could.
The blast would f*ck her along with her 4 dimensions off.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Astner
The blast would f*ck her along with her 4 dimensions off.

(at least) 4 multiverses

roll eyes (sarcastic)

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