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Ashe: Real Name - Ashelia B'nargin Dalmasca. Last known descendant of Raithwall, the legendary Dynast-King, current queen of Dalmasca.

Yuna: Former summoner. Daughter of High Summoner Braska and an Al Bhed mother, nice to Al Bhed chieftain Cid. Brought the Eternal Calm to Spira.

Donning her Warrior sphere, Yuna takes her sword and heads off to face the Dalmascan monarch in battle.

Ashe, in the meantime, sharpens her own weapon and prepares for a fight.

Battle takes place in the monster-free Calm Lands.

Man, they're both very iconic, and powerful. I want both of them to win. But i gotta say Yuna.

How bout I just have a three sum with them dd

http://simplyff.free.fr/FF12/artworks/ashe.jpg

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/8664/ffx2yuna2ig.jpg

Is that some kind of joke?

Ashe.

Unlike Yuna, she has a backbone and can do things without being coddled.

Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
Is that some kind of joke? No 131

Originally posted by Lana
Ashe.

Unlike Yuna, she has a backbone and can do things without being coddled.

Well, in FFX-2 she had a whole lot more backbone. But now that I look at it again, Ashe might win.

Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
Well, in FFX-2 she had a whole lot more backbone. But now that I look at it again, Ashe might win.

Nah, even in FFX-2 she was really only doing things that others told her to.

But she didn't hesitate to do things like before.

Imagine a FFX and FFXII crossover....

FFXII is pretty much FFX crossed with Star Wars as it is

And she didn't really hesitate but nor did she really go out to do anything herself, either - she still put far too much into the approval of the other people around her, it seemed.

The anthropomorphic bunnies and wookie-looking chocobos makes it like that, right?

Guess so.

Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
The anthropomorphic bunnies and wookie-looking chocobos makes it like that, right?

Guess so.

Pretty much everything - the design and style of everything, the characters, the story, etc.

the people in FFX don't look like Ser Wars characters.

Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
the people in FFX don't look like Ser Wars characters.

Who says they have to look like them to be exactly like them?

For example...Balthier is just like Han, Ashe is Leia or Padme (take your pick), Fran is basically Chewie, Basch is similar to Obi-wan, Vayne is the Emperor, etc. Ashe is also Yuna, Vaan is Tidus, Fran is Lulu, Basch is Auron, Penelo is Rikku...

oh, I see what you mean, but I thought Balthier would be Auron.

Holy crap. Even the moderator's getting involved in this thread. Cool.

It's a revolution. But she was probably intrested in the thread anyway.

Lana does have a good point.

Originally posted by Last Fre3lancer
The anthropomorphic bunnies and wookie-looking chocobos makes it like that, right?

Guess so. well the bunnies are sorta like the wookies, The seeqs like the gammoreans, The bangas like the gungans.

Not to mention the Final fantasy XII "Star destroyers", The death star "Bahamut" The senate, Coruscant(Archades) The westersand (tatooine)

And balfoinheim reminds me of nar shadaa.

Character wise
Ashe - princess leia
Vaan - r2d2 (colours and he talks alot)
Penello - c-3po
Basch - obi wan
Gabranth - darth vader
Vayne - sidious
Balthier - Han solo
Fran - chewbacca


And the strahl is like the millinieum falcon

Well anyways ashe Ftw, shes alot prettier than yuna and she is able to make her own decisions as well as having the capabality to fight a group of soldiers.

Is vaan or ashe the main character of FFXII anyways? Looks like vaan is but story is more on ashe

Yuna cuz she's my favorite female VG character, ever.

Edit: Damn Snafu's getting into the ladies of Final Fantasy. 313

Originally posted by Manslayer
well the bunnies are sorta like the wookies, The seeqs like the gammoreans, The bangas like the gungans.

Not to mention the Final fantasy XII "Star destroyers", The death star "Bahamut" The senate, Coruscant(Archades) The westersand (tatooine)

And balfoinheim reminds me of nar shadaa.

Character wise
Ashe - princess leia
Vaan - r2d2 (colours and he talks alot)
Penello - c-3po
Basch - obi wan
Gabranth - darth vader
Vayne - sidious
Balthier - Han solo
Fran - chewbacca


And the strahl is like the millinieum falcon

Well anyways ashe Ftw, shes alot prettier than yuna and she is able to make her own decisions as well as having the capabality to fight a group of soldiers.

Is vaan or ashe the main character of FFXII anyways? Looks like vaan is but story is more on ashe

Ashe is.

And Rabanastre is Theed, exactly...

Ashe.

Yuna wins.

I love Lana to death.

What about Balthier?

Balthier looks like a moose! A moose!

j/k...

Is it just me or does fran have a nicer body figure than ashe

What're you doing way out here in the VG VS.?

Praising Gouki and Ryu.

I thought Lana would say that Balthier is Auron.

I thought Lana would act like Rikku while she's here. 313

I don't think she wouln't. She's more calm and collective, like Fran and Lulu

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
I thought Lana would say that Balthier is Auron.

Nah, not really. Balthier's the only one I can't really think of anyone from FFX that he lines up with.

Originally posted by shin_gear
I thought Lana would act like Rikku while she's here. 313

Haha, not likely

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
I don't think she wouln't. She's more calm and collective, like Fran and Lulu

Lulu and Fran are my favorite characters from their games...

My sister told me once I'm like Lulu with a bit of Rikku's personality

Originally posted by Lana
Nah, not really. Balthier's the only one I can't really think of anyone from FFX that he lines up with.



Haha, not likely



Lulu and Fran are my favorite characters from their games...

My sister told me once I'm like Lulu with a bit of Rikku's personality

Well, he's like Gippal?

Ditto.

Yeah, LOL. My cousin said I was Khimari with Auron.

Yeah she's a LOT like Lulu alright...

Lana: "You shouldn't have brought him here in the FIRST place..."

Me: "But...he needed our help..."

Lana: "That's it. No more. E-NOUGH Wakka!" *walks away*

Me: weep

But I'm Khimari with Auron fused together. Now that's badass.

WTFLOLOMGROTFLMGDFAOROFLBBQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, so

Wonderwice Margera.

This should've been a concert battle and I would record them dancing with a cam and masturbate at the same time.

Wonderwice Margera

Grimmjow Jaggerjack

Ulquiorra Schiffer

Szayzel Apollo Grantz

Edorad Leones

Cirucci Thunderwitch

Sol Valentine.

Ashe wins.

All right! People win the same views as me. I thought someone would say that Yuna would whip out bahamut or if its the X-2 one just shoot at her. But I am glad that is not the case.

Since this is warrior Yuna, Ashe probably wins. Gunslinger Yuna would own though. Besides, Yuna did take down the.... thing that was supposedly better than Sin with Rikku and Paine. But she had a spheregrid then.

I think this holds the same problem as Vaan vs Tidus. Ashe is fully customizable. You'll have to be more specific with what her abilities are or we have no way of knowing what she can do.

You can't really use the main characters from FFXII in fights as they are left entirely up to the player to decide their skills.

Well since Yuna's using her warrior dressphere in this fight, I'm assuming its a battle of sword skill. In that case Ashe would probably win since she has some knowledge of a blade while Yuna is seen as a gunner for the majority of X-2.

However as stated above, XII charachter can do pretty much anything the player wants them to do while X-2 limits Yuna to an individual skill set to use. I still say Ashe is better because she didn't become a spice girl replica after two years of being a widow;she became Final Fantasy Princess Leia instead.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Ashe is fully customizable.

What TacDavey says is quite right. But, I have fully played Final Fantasy XII and I know pretty well each characters feats outside Gameplay. We can't really tell for sure if the characters can use magic, if whoever of them can summon Espers or if they can equip different kind of weapons, but the Quickenings are pretty much unique abilities from each characters. If the abilities doesn't have an story line doesn't mean they doesn't exist.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What TacDavey says is quite right. But, I have fully played Final Fantasy XII and I know pretty well each characters feats outside Gameplay. We can't really tell for sure if the characters can use magic, if whoever of them can summon Espers or if they can equip different kind of weapons, but the Quickenings are pretty much unique abilities from each characters. If the abilities doesn't have an story line doesn't mean they doesn't exist.

It might as well mean just that. The developers of the game didn't give them abilities. You did. And since that changes from person to person, it's impossible to say what Ashe can or can't do. If you want to make a character fight using FFXII characters, you're going to have to lay out their skill set first.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well since Yuna's using her warrior dressphere in this fight, I'm assuming its a battle of sword skill. In that case Ashe would probably win since she has some knowledge of a blade while Yuna is seen as a gunner for the majority of X-2.

However as stated above, XII charachter can do pretty much anything the player wants them to do while X-2 limits Yuna to an individual skill set to use. I still say Ashe is better because she didn't become a spice girl replica after two years of being a widow;she became Final Fantasy Princess Leia instead.

Ashe may have a base understanding of the sword, since you see her using one when you first meet her, but beyond that we have no idea what she can do, and a base understanding of the sword is not enough.

Also, Yuna's dress sphere does more than just give her a sword, it gives her all the abilities that go along with it. If we go solely on what we know of Ashe, Yuna comes out on top simply because we know more of her capabilities.

Originally posted by TacDavey
It might as well mean just that. The developers of the game didn't give them abilities. You did. And since that changes from person to person, it's impossible to say what Ashe can or can't do. If you want to make a character fight using FFXII characters, you're going to have to lay out their skill set first.

Agreed. But the Quickenings are unique abilities from each character in FFXII, it is not illogical to think that they can use them, it is illogical to think they couldn't use them as Squall couldn't perform Renzokuken or Zell using his fighting skills. You don't need a cutscene in the story line to show they can perform his abilities.

They both win the title of my house servants...and honnies. 313

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Agreed. But the Quickenings are unique abilities from each character in FFXII, it is not illogical to think that they can use them, it is illogical to think they couldn't use them as Squall couldn't perform Renzokuken or Zell using his fighting skills. You don't need a cutscene in the story line to show they can perform his abilities.

They can no more be used than limit breaks from the other games. Just like Lionheart means nothing in the debate of Cloud vs Squall, Quickenings are no more than game mechanics. Most of them don't even make any sense. But that is another discussion for another time.

If the above is true then the only people from XII that can be used in a debate are the villians. XII doesn't give any of the main characters individual talents other than quickenings and since their game mechanics they're probably void in a debate as well. If its any consolation, Ashe had the power to rule the world(as the occuria's pet) in her hands.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
If the above is true then the only people from XII that can be used in a debate are the villians. XII doesn't give any of the main characters individual talents other than quickenings and since their game mechanics they're probably void in a debate as well. If its any consolation, Ashe had the power to rule the world(as the occuria's pet) in her hands.

That's what I've been saying. FFXII main characters can't be used in debates like this unless you specify their abilities, and even then, I don't think it would work very well.

Really it's just best to avoid FFXII characters all together, except the villains as you said.

Originally posted by TacDavey
They can no more be used than limit breaks from the other games. Just like Lionheart means nothing in the debate of Cloud vs Squall, Quickenings are no more than game mechanics. Most of them don't even make any sense. But that is another discussion for another time.

Tac, I agree with you in everything you've said and it seems pretty convincing. I respectfully disagree here. Quickenings are abilities from each character, unique from each one, you can't choose them or customize them as the Magic, weapons or Summons, this is different. If they make sense or not, is irrelevant and I leave it as your standpoint as for me Blitz Ace, Dolphin Blow and many others doesn't make any sense either and they're probably animations of the attacks to make them to look cool, this also happens in Anime series. So... I don't really think that a Dolphin will appear after hitting an enemy in reality, the fact is that those are the characters abilities. Game mechanics are the Licence Boards, the Sphere Grids, the Junction system and the Materia system. NOT the characters unique abilities. I would wish to know the story of each ability to have an accurate representation of each one depending each character, but an ability can be represented as by one way here and by other way there, the only fact is that they own them and they can use them. I don't see anything illogical here. Final Fantasy Tactics it's the same, no, it's worst, EVERYTHING is customizable so we don't know anything about the characters true abilities except their background. I can make Ramza to be a Dragoon warrior if I like or I can make him to be a White Mage if I like, you see, etc.

Hey Ramza was cool despite not having any individuality outside his super-squire job. So far the only person that could use quickenings outside of manual gameplay in XII was Basch so we can't tell what Ashe can do. Yuna on the other hand could use her skills as a warrior to tie or possibly beat Ashe.(evidence or not I'm still rooting for the princess) If they were on the Pharos where the Sun Cryst was Ashe could just turn it into a nuke and vaporize Yuna, herself, the Pharos, and potentially the port near it.(Or was that just Cid's genius that did that)

Maybe quickenigs are part of the story...maybe not...maybe Yuna would get nuked by a nethicite shard. As this goes on, I feel its just a bad idea to use XII characters as evidence for...a lot of things.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So far the only person that could use quickenings outside of manual gameplay in XII was Basch so we can't tell what Ashe can do. Yuna on the other hand could use her skills as a warrior to tie or possibly beat Ashe.

What do you mean by Yuna using her skills as a warrior? You mean her Dressphere? That's the same, she never has used any of her other Dresspheres in the story so we can't use that as evidence, remember? It's the same issue that applies the Quickenings. 'Since the abilities doesn't have an story it means they doesn't exist'. That's invalid, they CAN exist as far as we know that they can transform and use various Dresspheres and as far as we know Basch had his Quickening without requirements to use the Licence Board which IS a game mechanic that it's UP TO THE PLAYER.

The Quickenings are unique abilities of each character and they aren't customizable, they ARE their own abilities.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Tac, I agree with you in everything you've said and it seems pretty convincing. I respectfully disagree here. Quickenings are abilities from each character, unique from each one, you can't choose them or customize them as the Magic, weapons or Summons, this is different. If they make sense or not, is irrelevant and I leave it as your standpoint as for me Blitz Ace, Dolphin Blow and many others doesn't make any sense either and they're probably animations of the attacks to make them to look cool, this also happens in Anime series. So... I don't really think that a Dolphin will appear after hitting an enemy in reality, the fact is that those are the characters abilities. Game mechanics are the Licence Boards, the Sphere Grids, the Junction system and the Materia system. NOT the characters unique abilities. I would wish to know the story of each ability to have an accurate representation of each one depending each character, but an ability can be represented as by one way here and by other way there, the only fact is that they own them and they can use them. I don't see anything illogical here. Final Fantasy Tactics it's the same, no, it's worst, EVERYTHING is customizable so we don't know anything about the characters true abilities except their background. I can make Ramza to be a Dragoon warrior if I like or I can make him to be a White Mage if I like, you see, etc.

Lionheart was unique to Squall. It's the same thing. Squall leaps into the air and flies there for a second performing Lionheart, but we all know Squall can't really fly. It's simply put into the game to look cool and add flare. Quickenings are no different. We don't consider Lionheart an accurate representation of Squalls abilities, so why should we consider Quickenings?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What do you mean by Yuna using her skills as a warrior? You mean her Dressphere? That's the same, she never has used any of her other Dresspheres in the story so we can't use that as evidence, remember? It's the same issue that applies the Quickenings. 'Since the abilities doesn't have an story it means they doesn't exist'. That's invalid, they CAN exist as far as we know that they can transform and use various Dresspheres and as far as we know Basch had his Quickening without requirements to use the Licence Board which IS a game mechanic that it's UP TO THE PLAYER.

The Quickenings are unique abilities of each character and they aren't customizable, they ARE their own abilities.

That's not quite right. Though Yuna never does switch dress spheres in the story, they are still an active part of the plot. You see the dress spheres power in action when Yuna turns into her dance form, which IS in the story. That, and they talk about them throughout the game. It's more than simply the need for it to be seen in a cutscene. Though Yuna's warrior form is never shown, the way dress spheres work is all explained and accounted for. And the warrior dress sphere is one of them, and so it IS connected to the story. The same cannot be said for Quickenings, which are nothing but battle related, and thus fall into the category of game mechanics.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Lionheart was unique to Squall. It's the same thing. Squall leaps into the air and flies there for a second performing Lionheart, but we all know Squall can't really fly. It's simply put into the game to look cool and add flare. Quickenings are no different. We don't consider Lionheart an accurate representation of Squalls abilities, so why should we consider Quickenings?

Yeah and Tidus kicking a ball and then explodes. That's the same I've said, special animations to look cool, that also happens in Anime series. But if they can do it or not it's another story, they can. The abilities such as the Quickenings doesn't need to be into the story line to exist. I don't think that the Quickenings would have been important to the story of Final Fantasy XII, that's why the developers didn't focus on that, why they would explain the Quickenings story? Or Lion Heart's story? For what? Unlike in FFX-2 where the Dresspheres are basically the story. Plus, they are no mechanics, the Licence Board and Dresspheres are mechanic.

From Basch' demonstration, we can tell that Quickenings can destroy things outside of a controlled battle so they aren't solely game mechanics. However seeing as how they're never shown again other than when you use them kind of makes things confusing. I think I'm getting this point somewhat. Ashe could use quickenings anytime she wanted while Yuna has to use dresspheres to do battle. However what would decide a win. If quickenings are innate abilities then Ashe could just obliterate Yuna with a chain. If dresspheres are recognized as just spheres instead of a job change, then wouldn't that be legit too. I think I just confused myself.

By the way, warrior skill...warrior dressphere...same thing.(sort of)

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
From Basch' demonstration, we can tell that Quickenings can destroy things outside of a controlled battle so they aren't solely game mechanics. However seeing as how they're never shown again other than when you use them kind of makes things confusing. I think I'm getting this point somewhat. Ashe could use quickenings anytime she wanted while Yuna has to use dresspheres to do battle. However what would decide a win. If quickenings are innate abilities then Ashe could just obliterate Yuna with a chain. If dresspheres are recognized as just spheres instead of a job change, then wouldn't that be legit too. I think I just confused myself.

Indeed, it's pretty confusing. But Basch's Quickening could be a hint. Quickenings DO EXIST, if they aren't part of the story line and they aren't explained with details doesn't mean in any way they don't exist.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Yeah and Tidus kicking a ball and then explodes. That's the same I've said, special animations to look cool, that also happens in Anime series. But if they can do it or not it's another story, they can. The abilities such as the Quickenings doesn't need to be into the story line to exist. I don't think that the Quickenings would have been important to the story of Final Fantasy XII, that's why the developers didn't focus on that, why they would explain the Quickenings story? Or Lion Heart's story? For what? Unlike in FFX-2 where the Dresspheres are basically the story. Plus, they are no mechanics, the Licence Board and Dresspheres are mechanic.

We've been over this before, GrieverSquall. If Lionheart is something Squall is capable of performing then he can fly. But Squall can't fly. Thus, Lionheart is nothing more than a cool animation thrown in without worrying about whether it was realistic or not. Games do it all the time. Especially turn based RPGs.

So Ashe can't go into an off-world and blast Yuna with heavenly lazesr beams and lightning explosion which would trigger an element based concurrence. What is this anyway? A sword fight, a popularity contest, or to see who can nuke who with canon evidence. I'm confuesd...again.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So Ashe can't go into an off-world and blast Yuna with heavenly lazesr beams and lightning explosion which would trigger an element based concurrence. What is this anyway? A sword fight, a popularity contest, or to see who can nuke who with canon evidence. I'm confuesd...again.

It really can't be the first since we don't know what Ashe can do.

It's mostly a popularity contest. With the absence of any valid data concerning Ashe, people are perfectly happy just picking whichever character they like more. Most of the fights I've seen consist of that. People ignore evidence in favor of whatever character they like better.

It's a little bit of cannon evidence, but not much. In the end, even if I do grant the quickening argument, and I don't, that still wouldn't be enough to prove one way or the other.

Originally posted by TacDavey
We've been over this before, GrieverSquall. If Lionheart is something Squall is capable of performing then he can fly. But Squall can't fly. Thus, Lionheart is nothing more than a cool animation thrown in without worrying about whether it was realistic or not. Games do it all the time. Especially turn based RPGs.

When? I don't remember talking about this before. It's the same if we talk about Blasting Zone, Squall doesn't throw a powerful beam to space, plus, Blasting Zone was modified in Dissidia, I know they are animations. The Summons attacks are also animations, the fact is that they can peform their abilities. We're off topic now, I agree is an animation but Squall isn't flying when he's performing Lion Heart, he's just standing on air while slashing his opponent, when the attack is over he falls, he's not flying at all. Final Fantasy characters stands on air a few moments when they are fighting, Gravity feats, that's something normal in the Final Fantasy universe, you said it by yourself, humans capable of performing these feats without being considered super-humans. You said it by yourself, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, why we should throw away the Quickenings? So anything not specifically stated in the game just doesn't exist, huh? There's a simple retort to that. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. QED.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
We're off topic now, I agree is an animation but Squall isn't flying when he's performing Lion Heart, he's just standing on air while slashing his opponent, when the attack is over he falls, he's not flying at all.

Okay, I'll rephrase that. Can Squall stand on air? I can think of some good points in the game for him to pull that trick off. He never does it outside of the Lionheart animation though. The reason is, of course, that he can't do it. Lionheart isn't an accurate representation of what Squall can do. He can't shoot enemies up into the air, leap up after them, stand on air while he shreds them, and land safely back on the ground. It's nothing more than a game mechanic, and so are quickenings.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Final Fantasy characters stands on air a few moments when they are fighting, Gravity feats, that's something normal in the Final Fantasy universe, you said it by yourself, humans capable of performing these feats without being considered super-humans.

Indeed, people in the FF world are capable of performing more than an average person. That still doesn't mean they can do ANYTHING. Flying, or standing on air, is an example. People can't do it outside of flashy attack animations, it's how the game works.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
You said it by yourself, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, why we should throw away the Quickenings?

Because they are a game mechanic and we can see that outside of battle they hold no real meaning. Why doesn't Vaan summon tornadoes whenever he wants outside of Battle? Why didn't Balthier flood the place with his tidal wave attack? Because those animations where made only for the battle system. Balthier can't really summon tidal waves whenever he wants and Vaan can't whip up a tornado when he sees fit.

It's not absence of evidence. There IS absence of evidence. The very fact that they DON'T do it suggests that the quickenings are exactly what I said they were. Game mechanics.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Okay, I'll rephrase that. Can Squall stand on air? I can think of some good points in the game for him to pull that trick off. He never does it outside of the Lionheart animation though. The reason is, of course, that he can't do it. Lionheart isn't an accurate representation of what Squall can do. He can't shoot enemies up into the air, leap up after them, stand on air while he shreds them, and land safely back on the ground It's nothing more than a game mechanic, and so are quickenings. Indeed, people in the FF world are capable of performing more than an average person. That still doesn't mean they can do ANYTHING. Flying, or standing on air, is an example. People can't do it outside of flashy attack animations, it's how the game works. Because they are a game mechanic and we can see that outside of battle they hold no real meaning. Why doesn't Vaan summon tornadoes whenever he wants outside of Battle? Why didn't Balthier flood the place with his tidal wave attack? Because those animations where made only for the battle system. Balthier can't really summon tidal waves whenever he wants and Vaan can't whip up a tornado when he sees fit.

Those aren't game mechanics, those are animations of the attacks, I already said that this also happens in the Anime series. They may be exaggerated, the thing is, they can perform them. Why Squall wouldn't land on ground properly, what's the problem? Why he would slash an enemy on the air? I don't see anything illogical there, Squall can't jump?

I didn't say they can do anything. But those gravity feats are part of what is the Final Fantasy universe, don't blame me for that. Why Vaan would summon a Tornado in the middle of a town? Of course he would do it in battle. Quickenings aren't important in the story. How do you explain Leviathan's attack in each FF game? I know it's animation but, Leaviathan doesn't exist, then? What about Ifrit in FFVIII? he does exist, but he can't throw a Meteor to the enemies because it's animation...? Then how the hell he perform his attacks?

To give you a simple example. You can see special animations in games, RPGs, also in Anime, or other fictional series. I know they don't fit. A guy can perform an attack and can turn the world's background into a Fire realm like Vaan does, or Sephiroth destroying an entire Solar System, but that doesn't mean he is ACTUALLY DOING THAT. Vaan just throw two Fire-Balls to his opponents, that's all. Don't take the animations so seriously, they are just to turn cool the attacks. Squall can jump and slash an enemy on air, that's not illogical, Blasting Zone or My Final Heaven are illogical.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Those aren't game mechanics, those are animations of the attacks, I already said that this also happens in the Anime series. They may be exaggerated, the thing is, they can perform them.

Perform what? You just said the attacks were exaggerated. Can Squall float on air or not?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I don't see anything illogical there, Squall can't jump?

Squall can't leap miles into the air and then stay there while he swings his sword.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I didn't say they can do anything. But those gravity feats are part of what is the Final Fantasy universe, don't blame me for that. Why Vaan would summon a Tornado in the middle of a town? Of course he would do it in battle.

Outside of battle doesn't mean in a town. There are other places a tidal wave or tornado would have come in handy.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Quickenings aren't important in the story. How do you explain Leviathan's attack in each FF game? I know it's animation but, Leaviathan doesn't exist, then? What about Ifrit in FFVIII? he does exist, but he can't throw a Meteor to the enemies because it's animation...? Then how the hell he perform his attacks?

Not all animations are inaccurate. However, animations are low on the realistic priority line, if you get what I mean. In other words, when we see from evidence outside of battle that something is beyond what a character can do, and then he does it in an animation, we know to trust the story source before we trust the animation source.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
To give you a simple example. You can see special animations in games, RPGs, also in Anime, or other fictional series. I know they don't fit. A guy can perform an attack and can turn the world's background into a Fire realm like Vaan does, or Sephiroth destroying an entire Solar System, but that doesn't mean he is ACTUALLY DOING THAT.

That's my point exactly. Sometimes animations don't mimic what is realistic for the character. Games are not like real life, it's harder to tell what a character can do. It changes and doesn't always fit. Just like Dissidia. Squall couldn't originally do what he can in Dissidia. But they change it and don't explain why because its a game and they don't care.

In that sense, games have to be approached a little differently when you debate about them, because what someone can do in a battle doesn't necessarily have to fit with what they can do outside of battle. It's a game, some animations are placed in there just to look cool. So, when we want to debate about games, we have to prioritize our evidence, and battle animations are low on that list.

The trick is separating the battle system from the story. The battle system is mostly game mechanics.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Perform what? You just said the attacks were exaggerated. Can Squall float on air or not?

Squall can't leap miles into the air and then stay there while he swings his sword.

Outside of battle doesn't mean in a town. There are other places a tidal wave or tornado would have come in handy.

Squall can't float... I said he stands until the attack is over... that doesn't mean he's flying. Huh...? Miles into the air? Don't exaggerate... Squall can jump and slash enemies on air, simple as that.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Not all animations are inaccurate. However, animations are low on the realistic priority line, if you get what I mean. In other words, when we see from evidence outside of battle that something is beyond what a character can do, and then he does it in an animation, we know to trust the story source before we trust the animation source.

That happens when you mix the reality with simple animations... I could bring videos and a lot of stuff about that, Anime series or fictional ones, animations is what the name states, animations.

Look at this animation, giant robots performing that in the middle of the city or field I don't know. 'Power Ranger: Ninja Storm'

They CAN do it, but is an simple animation.

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Maybe Yuna from X and Ashe from Revenant Wings should have been used for this fight. Ashe's quickenings are a mystery and Yuna's warrior dressphere has no canon evidence supporting it.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Squall can't float... I said he stands until the attack is over... that doesn't mean he's flying. Huh...? Miles into the air? Don't exaggerate... Squall can jump and slash enemies on air, simple as that.

Yes, he stands on air. Sounds a lot like floating if you ask me.


Originally posted by GrieverSquall
That happens when you mix the reality with simple animations... I could bring videos and a lot of stuff about that, Anime series or fictional ones, animations is what the name states, animations.

Look at this animation, giant robots performing that in the middle of the city or field I don't know. 'Power Ranger: Ninja Storm'

They CAN do it, but is an simple animation.

9EBsPoDs5cI

What? Power Rangers and a turn based RPG are completely different things. For one thing, Power Rangers is fully live action, and on top of that it's a SHOW, not a game. A turn based RPG is completely different.

This explanation makes no sense. Either they can do what is being "animated", or they can't. Simple as that. They can't do it and not do it at the same time.

He can in Dissidia. awermm

Originally posted by Nephthys
He can in Dissidia. awermm

He says nothing of Squall's skills are an accurate representation, even when the developers didn't stated it. But I take it as an standpoint.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He can in Dissidia. awermm

I know. Dissidia isn't an accurate representation of the characters original abilities. They made this change in later games so that they could do more fancy battles, but Squall couldn't do that originally.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
He says nothing of Squall's skills are an accurate representation, even when the developers didn't stated it. But I take it as an standpoint.

Actually, the developers said they weren't worried about sticking to what was realistic. They don't care, they just wanted to make a fun action game and I have no problem with that, but I don't think it can really be used in these debates.

The Dissidia developers never stated such thing.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
The Dissidia developers never stated such thing.

No, AC developers did, and since Dissidia's fights are modeled to be like AC, it pretty much covers both.

Sorry, I don't take assumptions like those. If the Dissidia developers didn't stated what you're saying, then for me it doesn't count as fact.

Originally posted by TacDavey
What? Power Rangers and a turn based RPG are completely different things. For one thing, Power Rangers is fully live action, and on top of that it's a SHOW, not a game. A turn based RPG is completely different.This explanation makes no sense. Either they can do what is being "animated", or they can't. Simple as that. They can't do it and not do it at the same time.

Oh, I jumped this part, sorry.
Well, what I really meant is not to compare a game to a show, just their animations, when the animation sequence is set, it can be illogical or logical, you see, in power Rangers they summon giant waves in the city or the robots performs powerful attacks in the middle of towns and etc. if you take that as the reality then they, in each battle hundred of people would die. Sometimes the robots performs sword or beam attacks and the animation is simply exaggerated, but what you see in the animation doesn't mean it happens in the reality outside that animation, it means it's something to add cool effects, but the attack is performed, it doesn't mean in any way that the attacks don't exist. That's all. I don't know if you get my point though.

Another example:

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As you can see in that animation, he doesn't turn the world a fire realm. It's just animation.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Sorry, I don't take assumptions like those. If the Dissidia developers didn't stated what you're saying, then for me it doesn't count as fact.

No, it follows logically. The fights in Dissidia were made to be like AC's fights. Ac's fights were not made to be realistic. Thus, Dissidia fights were not made to be realistic. It's not an assumption at all.

I'll reply to this post in the Cloud Vs. Squall topic if you don't mind.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I'll reply to this post in the Cloud Vs. Squall topic if you don't mind.

Indeed, where were we on Ashe vs. Yuna? As far as I can see, it pretty much follows the Vaan vs Tidus one.