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Seems like it would be a good fight..


Who wins?

I want to say firestorm

Firestorm absorbs Surfer into the FS matrix, ftw!


Nah,

In all honesty I think this would be really close...

Maybe a slight edge to Firestorm.

How fast is Firestorm?

Firestorm 6-7/10

Originally posted by Endless Mike
How fast is Firestorm? Speed is a moot point for Surfer IMO.

I mean, how many times has he speedblitzed on panel?


And remember FS can be intangible.

Originally posted by Merlyn
Speed is a moot point for Surfer IMO.

I mean, how many times has he speedblitzed on panel?


And remember FS can be intangible.

Speedblitzed the Hulk

Originally posted by llagrok
Speedblitzed the Hulk Hasn't Spiderman too?

Anyways, "speedblitzing" the Hulk is not a good way to gauge Surfer's ability to speedblitz IMO.


And also, was Hulk intangible when Surfer "speedblitzed" him?

Originally posted by Galan007
Firestorm absorbs Surfer into the FS matrix, ftw!


Nah,

In all honesty I think this would be really close...

Maybe a slight edge to Firestorm.

Agreed, very close. I could see someone saying 5/10 to either and not really objecting in the least.

However, if I HAD to put money down, it'd be on Firestorm.

Originally posted by Soljer
Agreed, very close. I could see someone saying 5/10 to either and not really objecting in the least.

However, if I HAD to put money down, it'd be on Firestorm. I agree.

FS is honestly one of the most versatile characters I have ever seen..


It's his sheer versatility which might give FS the edge here.

Originally posted by Soljer
Agreed, very close. I could see someone saying 5/10 to either and not really objecting in the least.

However, if I HAD to put money down, it'd be on Firestorm.
If YOU'RE going to say that Firestorm has the edge, then I'm actually inclined to believe it(since I know you're also a Surfer fan). But I have a question, does Firestorm have against Surfer's time/space powers? I mean, could he get out of a BFR into the far future?

Where did all the FS love come from?

Originally posted by Validus
Where did all the FS love come from?
Galan wanking him like no tomorrow.

Oh and Surfer wins 9/10...

Originally posted by darthgoober
If YOU'RE going to say that Firestorm has the edge, then I'm actually inclined to believe it(since I know you're also a Surfer fan). But I have a question, does Firestorm have against Surfer's time/space powers? I mean, could he get out of a BFR into the far future?

Ouch.

You act like it's Trickster giving someone a win over Darkseid, or Quanchi saying that Thanos loses, or 2damn or Rutog ever claiming that storm may NOT beat the living tribunal.

.

Originally posted by Soljer
Ouch.

You act like it's Trickster giving someone a win over Darkseid, or Quanchi saying that Thanos loses, or 2damn or Rutog ever claiming that storm may NOT beat the living tribunal.

.
Oh no I didn't mean to imply that you were biased or anything, I just know that you're a knowledgeable Surfer fan(rather than fanboy) so you're not likely to underestimate his abilities.

Indeed, but I'm not a knowledgeable Firestorm fan.

So, maybe Skeets and Validus are right, and I'm overrating his? Eh.

Originally posted by Soljer
Indeed, but I'm not a knowledgeable Firestorm fan.

So, maybe Skeets and Validus are right, and I'm overrating his? Eh.
That's possible too. That's why I asked about any time/space powers Firestorm might possess.

I'm in shock. Here I am to give SS the win and FS is getting all this love.

Did he get some kind of awesome upgrade recently?

Originally posted by Avlon
I'm in shock. Here I am to give SS the win and FS is getting all this love.

Did he get some kind of awesome upgrade recently?
It appears everyone just got Firestorm confused with Hal Jordan. haermm

Originally posted by Merlyn
Seems like it would be a good fight..


Who wins?

Firestorm wins a tough fight

Originally posted by Skeets
Galan wanking him like no tomorrow. Why?

Because I said it would be a close battle?


You're quick to throw around snide little remarks, but not so quick to disprove statements that you so intelligently "comment" on.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's possible too. That's why I asked about any time/space powers Firestorm might possess.

As far as I know, he has none. But, like I said, I'm going off of hearsay. Galan'd be better to question.

He does have the ability to see into different times due to quantum wormholes or some hooplah. He could, theoretically, manipulate that ability to actually move through time as well, but I dunno if he has or not.

Originally posted by Validus
It appears everyone just got Firestorm confused with Hal Jordan. haermm

Apparently.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's why I asked about any time/space powers Firestorm might possess. I've seen Firestorm create boom tube-like constructs to bfr his enemies as well.

And how is Surfer to bfr an intangible opponent before he is bfr'd himself?

Originally posted by Galan007
Why?

Because I said it would be a close battle?


You're quick to throw around snide little remarks, but not so quick to disprove statements that you so intelligently "comment" on.
And you took offense too it? haermm

Originally posted by Merlyn
I've seen Firestorm create boom tube-like constructs to bfr his enemies as well.

And how is Surfer to bfr an intangible opponent before he is bfr'd himself?
Surfer can go intangible too(and it makes sense that two intangible beings would be capable of interacting), and bfr isn't really an option against him.

I'd say an edge to surfer for the sheer fact that he is more experienced.. But currently Firestorm has merged with firehawk. So he's far superior to what he was. and What he was, was able to deal with an amped up kalibak who was able to pwn Orion. So powerful in fact that DS had to step in himself. Firestorm also can create Green lantern like constructs as well as his energy powers and matter manip. I'd say He's got Surfer beat in power and versatility. Too bad he's a novice. Surfer spanks him therefore 6/10.

Originally posted by Skeets
And you took offense too it? haermm It annoyed me a lot more then if offended me.

Originally posted by Soljer
Ouch.

You act like it's Trickster giving someone a win over Darkseid, or Quanchi saying that Thanos loses, or 2damn or Rutog ever claiming that storm may NOT beat the living tribunal.

.

Comparing me to Quanchi and Rutog? That's low. durfist Seriously, that was pretty low. Now if you said Apocalypse, I wouldn't have cared.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh no I didn't mean to imply that you were biased or anything, I just know that you're a knowledgeable Surfer fan(rather than fanboy) so you're not likely to underestimate his abilities.

You're one to talk.

Frankly, despite their powers being pretty much evenly matched (and Firestorm having the higher potential if he becomes an elemental like Prof. Stein was), I've got to give this to Surfer 6-7/10. He's been doing this alot longer and he isn't afraid to use that experience to his advantage.

ss wins this all day. i cant believe all this firestorm hype.

did i miss him destroy a pantheon or two.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You're one to talk.

Frankly, despite their powers being pretty much evenly matched (and Firestorm having the higher potential if he becomes an elemental like Prof. Stein was), I've got to give this to Surfer 6-7/10. He's been doing this alot longer and he isn't afraid to use that experience to his advantage.
One to talk about what? When have I made a claim about Surfer that I haven't backed up?

Let me remind you, you're the one that was just compared to Quanchi, 2damn, and Rutog so which of us would you say comes across as being more biased in regards to a specific character?

Originally posted by quanchi112
ss wins this all day. i cant believe all this firestorm hype.

did i miss him destroy a pantheon or two.

and actually how does Ss win all day against a being who has the same powers?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and actually how does Ss win all day against a being who has the same powers? experience my good sir.

ever hear of it?

Originally posted by quanchi112
experience my good sir.

ever hear of it?

experience gets you some wins. But not all of them. surfer 6/10.

Galan! Come here now, damnit! .

Get in an argument with someone - I'm all question-y now! I totally withdraw my earlier evaluation - apparently I may have been a little off, or even WAY off.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
experience gets you some wins. But not all of them. surfer 6/10. then u agree with me that surfer wins the solid majority. bout time u were right for once.

Originally posted by quanchi112
then u agree with me that surfer wins the solid majority. bout time u were right for once.




6/10 isn't a solid majority.

8/10 is a solid majority.

6/10 is what we refer to as a slight majority.

Originally posted by Soljer
6/10 isn't a solid majority.

8/10 is a solid majority.

6/10 is what we refer to as a slight majority. oh my geez. u want to argue about this now. i dont care i thought a slight was 51 percent of the time. but i really dont care either way its majority. whether some see it as slight or solid in their heads it doesnt matter to me.

Originally posted by Soljer
6/10 isn't a solid majority.

8/10 is a solid majority.

6/10 is what we refer to as a slight majority.
Whatever you think is a solid majority, Surfer wins it.

Originally posted by Validus
Whatever you think is a solid majority, Surfer wins it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer can go intangible too(and it makes sense that two intangible beings would be capable of interacting), and bfr isn't really an option against him.

Given the plethora of ways for people to become intangible that not really true. I assume Firestorm does something like what Vision does but there's no reason to say Surfer would phase that way.

Originally posted by Validus
Whatever you think is a solid majority, Surfer wins it.

16/10 is pretty solid....

Seriously though; Galan's not really biased, and he's usually dead-on in his evaluations.

Where does this huge discrepancy come from?

Part of it is the experience edge. Wait.......there's something I forgot about. Which Firestorm is it? Is Martin Stein the other person in the link?

This fight can go either way, but there are a few things that change the outcome abit.

Martin Stein is part of it. Jason benefits more from Stein's intelligence and experience with the matrix than he does from Firehawk's added power. This is really undeniable.

Really, if you think Jason is good enough for 4/10, Ronnie would probably mean a 10/10 anal raping for our cosmic friend in silver.

Originally posted by Soljer
16/10 is pretty solid....

Seriously though; Galan's not really biased, and he's usually dead-on in his evaluations.

Where does this huge discrepancy come from? what does not really biased mean. ur either biased or u arent.

ok i feel galan is slightly biased soljer. 60 percent of the time. not a solid bias but a slight becuz u showed me this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
what does not really biased mean. ur either biased or u arent.

ok i feel galan is slightly biased soljer. 60 percent of the time. not a solid bias but a slight becuz u showed me this.



you aren't being very nice to galan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
what does not really biased mean. ur either biased or u arent.

ok i feel galan is slightly biased soljer. 60 percent of the time. not a solid bias but a slight becuz u showed me this.



No, there are tiers of bias. Capt it up is biased towards Wolverine. I am biased towards the Silver Surfer. You are biased towards Thanos. Trickster is biased towards Darkseid. Devilhulk is biased towards the Hulk. The storm tards are biased towards Storm. Avalon is biased towards Superman.

All different LEVELS of bias, but all biased nonetheless.

Originally posted by Soljer
No, there are tiers of bias. Capt it up is biased towards Wolverine. I am biased towards the Silver Surfer. You are biased towards Thanos. Trickster is biased towards Darkseid. Devilhulk is biased towards the Hulk. The storm tards are biased towards Storm. Avalon is biased towards Superman.

All different LEVELS of bias, but all biased nonetheless.
THAT'S the thread Smurph should have created, a "Bias tier thread" .

Originally posted by Soljer
No, there are tiers of bias. Capt it up is biased towards Wolverine. I am biased towards the Silver Surfer. You are biased towards Thanos. Trickster is biased towards Darkseid. Devilhulk is biased towards the Hulk. The storm tards are biased towards Storm. Avalon is biased towards Superman.

All different LEVELS of bias, but all biased nonetheless. silver surfer is ur fav, character huh? who said i was biased.

Originally posted by darthgoober
THAT'S the thread Smurph should have created, a "Bias tier thread" .

There aren't enough levels between You, me, Validus, and Avalon when compared to the likes of Rutog, 2damn, Devilgoblin and Devilhulk.

There would have to be hundreds if not THOUSANDS of totally empty tiers just to have enough to separate the people who are biased, realize it, acknowledge it, and try to ignore it and the people who....

Well...2damn. .

Originally posted by Soljer
There aren't enough levels between You, me, Validus, and Avalon when compared to the likes of Rutog, 2damn, Devilgoblin and Devilhulk.

There would have to be hundreds if not THOUSANDS of totally empty tiers just to have enough to separate the people who are biased, realize it, acknowledge it, and try to ignore it and the people who....

Well...2damn. . im still trying to figure out how anyone in their right mind could like storm as their favorite character.

Originally posted by quanchi112
silver surfer is ur fav, character huh? who said i was biased.



No, he isn't my favorite character. But I am biased towards him, and I acknowledge that.

And, the community at large decided you're (quite) biased.

Beyond that, everyone is biased to some degree. Whether you decide to admit it or not, everyone has a bias.

Originally posted by Soljer
There aren't enough levels between You, me, Validus, and Avalon when compared to the likes of Rutog, 2damn, Devilgoblin and Devilhulk.

There would have to be hundreds if not THOUSANDS of totally empty tiers just to have enough to separate the people who are biased, realize it, acknowledge it, and try to ignore it and the people who....

Well...2damn. .

Made me chuckle a lil bit.

Originally posted by Soljer
No, he isn't my favorite character. But I am biased towards him, and I acknowledge that.

And, the community at large decided you're (quite) biased.

Beyond that, everyone is biased to some degree. Whether you decide to admit it or not, everyone has a bias. its no secret i love thanos but the guy has some amazing feats backing him up. prep makes things complicated and no one knows how long it could take thanos to acquire the ig if he wanted to. its all speculation. but i see what u are saying becuz with all our fav characters or characters we support there is some level of biased involved.

we are human so we cant escape this kinda shit i guess.

Prep should be banned from Vs. threads. It's basically an excuse to make shit up.

Originally posted by Validus
Prep should be banned from Vs. threads. It's basically an excuse to make shit up.

Pretty well agreed. It's not a bad idea in theory, but in practice...

Originally posted by Validus
Prep should be banned from Vs. threads. It's basically an excuse to make shit up. then there shouldnt be threads like exitar vs juggernaut or the spectre vs silver surfer. its so onesided the other guy needs some angle to compete.

i just realized how crappy the surfer and the juggernaut would be with prep. thet might lose thier powers or get killed in the process.

Originally posted by Soljer
Beyond that, everyone is biased to some degree. Whether you decide to admit it or not, everyone has a bias.

Copier..

Originally posted by King_Mungi
you generally are fair but still gave you a rating as as much as we don't want to admit it were bias to a degree of something.

Originally posted by quanchi112
then there shouldnt be threads like exitar vs juggernaut or the spectre vs silver surfer. its so onesided the other guy needs some angle to compete.

i just realized how crappy the surfer and the juggernaut would be with prep. thet might lose thier powers or get killed in the process.
Nobody is going to argue that Spectre Vs Surfer and others threads like it are terrible, prep or not.

Originally posted by Validus
Nobody is going to argue that Spectre Vs Surfer and others threads like it are terrible, prep or not. ive seen in my time to spite me. imperiex prime vs thanos with no prep. spectre vs thanos with no prep. i mean sometimes it gets ridiculous.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Copier..





Mine was far more eloquently put.

Oh, and I honestly didn't mean to copy that, if I did. I've noticed that, at times, if I read something/hear something, and later write, the words I heard earlier in the day have a much higher likelihood of being used by myself.

Odd, but, meh.

Originally posted by Soljer
Mine was far more eloquently put.

Oh, and I honestly didn't mean to copy that, if I did. I've noticed that, at times, if I read something/hear something, and later write, the words I heard earlier in the day have a much higher likelihood of being used by myself.

Odd, but, meh.

haha it's not a big deal, but sucks for you as it seems we think the same way and everyone knows how I think ...tragic for you

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Part of it is the experience edge. Experience won't really give SS the edge here... The professor easily makes up for that difference, imo.

I honestly can't think of a thing SS could do to harm FS. FS has already shown the ability to control wormhole-like constructs which apparently transverse space-time, so even IF Surfer got ahold of him, , I don't really see bfr as a full proof tactic.

FS can also turn Surfer's cosmic blasts into various other types of non-harmful elements. .

And I also think of things like the GL-esque constructs FS can create from nothing, to battle numerous opponents at once..


All of these things make me think that it is a VERY close battle.

Surfer.

Surfer win.

Inertron for the win. Thor can't get out of it, It can't be broken in the future, and Firestorm used it in the PC days to deflect the Omega Force. Surfer ain't getting out of it, can't transmute it, he's done.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Inertron for the win. Thor can't get out of it, It can't be broken in the future, and Firestorm used it in the PC days to deflect the Omega Force. Surfer ain't getting out of it, can't transmute it, he's done.
What makes you think Surfer can't transmute it?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs10-1.jpg

Hmmm...

Inertron, inertron, inertron.

Nope, don't see the word in there.

Originally posted by Soljer
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs10-1.jpg

Hmmm...

Inertron, inertron, inertron.

Nope, don't see the word in there.

You dont' have to. It's the same way that element lad's people created Inertron.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What makes you think Surfer can't transmute it?
If Element Lad can't transmute it once it's made, what makes you think the surfer could? Thor couldn't break out of it in JLA avengers.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If Element Lad can't transmute it once it's made, what makes you think the surfer could? Thor couldn't break out of it in JLA avengers.
What makes you think that Surfer CAN'T do it if Firestorm can? After all Firestorm is the one I hear compared to Surfer(or refered to as "Surfer light" by some) not Element Lad...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You dont' have to. It's the same way that element lad's people created Inertron.
I don't get it, what's so special about the way he created it? Restructuring atoms is something that LOTS of transmuters do, so unless they're ALL making Inertron...

Originally posted by darthgoober
What makes you think that Surfer CAN'T do it if Firestorm can? After all Firestorm is the one I hear compared to Surfer(or refered to as "Surfer light" by some) not Element Lad...


I don't get it, what's so special about the way he created it? Restructuring atoms is something that LOTS of transmuters do, so unless they're ALL making Inertron...

But they all don't, you have to know how to make it, and once it's made, it cannot be unmade.

*Still haven't seen anything that would make me think Surfer takes the solid majority here.* srsly

Originally posted by quanchi112
its no secret i love thanos but the guy has some amazing feats backing him up. prep makes things complicated and no one knows how long it could take thanos to acquire the ig if he wanted to. its all speculation. but i see what u are saying becuz with all our fav characters or characters we support there is some level of biased involved.

we are human so we cant escape this kinda shit i guess.

Everyone is biased to one extent or the other. That much is true. We all have our favorite characters.

The difference, though, between a fan and a fanboy is that the fan of (say) Wolverine will be drawn to that character and defend him when need be, but will also be able to admit when his fave character is outmatched. A fanboy, on the other hand, will continue to defend his character even when it is clearly evident that school ended a long time back (and when it appears like he may lose the argument due to logic IMMEDIATELY switches to all sorts of silly argumentative 'points' that hold no water but can drag on forever .....there are so many examples of such that there is really no reason going into that ....might even step on some toes on this thread ....without naming names .....ahem ....)

Oh, and there are fanboys of very powerful characters, not just the usual suspects (e.g. relatively 'low' characters, compared to who they are pit against, like Wolverine, Spiderman and Storm ....all who had or have their share of fanboys). A person can be a fanboy of more powerful characters, e.g. Superman, the Hulk .....or even Thanos.

The identifying mark is non-logical support of the character, coupled with the use of really atrophied argumentative remarks disguised as 'points.'

There are many fans of characters out there (e.g. Aquaman and Namor both have some VERY good fans who support the character, but use more logic than can be found in squads of fanboys).

And there are many fanboys of characters (e.g. the greatest-one-of-them-all who shall remain unnamed, but supported Wolverine. There are some ancients who used to be spiderman fanboys, but that passed on over a year ago. Currently Storm and Ironman fanboys abound, and there was that whole 'Huc' nonsense going on some time back that matched the Hulk ....basically a one-dimensional character .....against some rather potent people who were multi, or even omni, dimensional).

Bias is alright ....actually quite good (otherwise people wouldn't bother debating). It only becomes a problem when it is either taken too far (e.g. gender bias etc), or when it makes the person myopic (e.g. the poster who was saying that IronMan is faster than Superman).

prolly a split

Id say Firestorms weakness against the Surfer lies within the matrix (perhaps).. If he somehow manage to merged w/ it, his done somethin similar (Unilord, Earth, ancient ships matrix,etc), he could then disrupt it..

Originally posted by Roldz
Id say Firestorms weakness against the Surfer lies within the matrix (perhaps).. If he somehow manage to merged w/ it, his done somethin similar (Unilord, Earth, ancient ships matrix,etc), he could then disrupt it..

Now who do you know can even tap the Matrix but skyfather beings? And what's stopping FS from merging with Surfer and taking over his power?

Surfer is nowhere near powerful enough to **** with the matrix. Darkseid was the last guy to do anything to it.

As for FS merging with Surfer.......I thought it had to be a willing merger to work?

A couple things...


1.) Pulling someone out of the FS-Matrix, as Darky did, is a far cry from 'messing with the Matrix' itself -- That's a task no character has accomplished, thus far.

2.) Even IF Surfer could pull someone out of the Matrix, , it would do nothing in the 'long term' to FS, .

3.) I have never seen FS forcibly merge another character to the Matrix -- Thus, that's not really a probable scenario here.

I seemed to remember Firestorm reverted to plain old Ronald once after being blasted.

Zeta beam forcibly force someone to merged w/ the matrix; something Surfer could possiby accomplish... Possibly..

His also suceptible to psionic attacks; it once made him thinking powerless..

Originally posted by Roldz
I seemed to remember Firestorm reverted to plain old Ronald once after being blasted. Not the case any longer.

Originally posted by Roldz
Zeta beam forcibly force someone to merged w/ the matrix; something Surfer could possiby accomplish... Possibly..Huh?

FS has shown the ability to control Zeta-radiation a few times now.

And are you saying Surfer would try to merge with FS? Because he really wouldn't want to do that.

Originally posted by Roldz
His also suceptible to psionic attacks; it once made him thinking powerless.. Do mental attacks work on him? Sure, .

Is he helpless against them? Nope, .

Recently, Galan showed me scans of FS forcing mergers on people. And it seems Firestorm can shut down and amp powers.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Recently, Galan showed me scans of FS forcing mergers on people. And it seems Firestorm can shut down and amp powers. On humans...

He reactivated that chick's power, and then took it away. That's not enough to even begin to speculate he can f*ck with the power cosmic.

Originally posted by Bransolute
On humans...

He reactivated that chick's power, and then took it away. That's not enough to even begin to speculate he can f*ck with the power cosmic.

Actually That was not a human. She is very powerful.

Originally posted by Bransolute
On humans...

He reactivated that chick's power, and then took it away. That's not enough to even begin to speculate he can f*ck with the power cosmic. Trans Bran!

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Actually That was not a human. She is very powerful. Still not as powerful as Surfer.
Plus dawg, I never said she was a human. I said she was a 'chick'.

bump so everyone sees bransolutes post

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Recently, Galan showed me scans of FS forcing mergers on people. And it seems Firestorm can shut down and amp powers.
Doubtfull; must be referring to Firehawk, she allowed it to happen and is able to break the link/merged at any time..
Originally posted by Galan007
Not the case any longer.
It did happen and on someoned whose exp/connection far exceeds the current one..

Whose to say a planetary destroying blast directed to the host body wouldnt severe the mental link to the matrix disrupting the merge, which is exactly what happened on paragraph above. Less of course currents host connection to the matrix far exceeds than past hosts (Ron/mar)..
Originally posted by Galan007
Huh?

FS has shown the ability to control Zeta-radiation a few times now.

And are you saying Surfer would try to merge with FS? Because he really wouldn't want to do that..
He was merged w/ cyborg once via Zeta-radiation, he wasnt able to do anything about it..

Didnt know he now could control this energy, which issue was he able this?

Both Ron/Stein been attack a few time inside for control over the matrix causing them mental strain/pain, it would be like a battle of will inside for control over the firestorm entity something the Surfer could do after merging, and i think current host will<<<<<<Norrin..
Originally posted by Galan007
Do mental attacks work on him? Sure, .

Is he helpless against them? Nope, .
Most of the time he is quite defenseless on said attack (going on normal showings), infact he was held powerless by a mental attack (current) it happened in action comics Superman not too long ago..

Just my 2 cents...

Props to yah respect thread Galan... Didnt know yah made one..

Apparently the new host can merged unwilling people to the matrix, althought i dont know if it can merged w/ someone on a meta or herald level dough. It is however a double edge sword, in the matrix whoever is the most dominant/stronger will controls Firestorm entity at the least thats how i understood it..

Zeta-radiation is a little iffy, the one that cause both Cyborg and Firestorm to merged where Zeta/Quantum radiation mixed guess thats somethin outside his skills to control..

Well we know Surfer has manipulated/absorb quantum energy before, Zeta beam well where not to sure (its quite a norm tech for that race) thought Surfer can use stellar energies to teleport. So from that i quess we can speculate that he could replicate that feat and merged w/ FS fight him from the inside as they are kinda even outside.. From there ill take SS side after all his taken out a universal level entity using CA to find a weakness in its powersource and in this case the host itself..

Then theres also that planetary/blackhole output blast i wonder if FS containment field/current body could survived that level of attack..

Originally posted by Roldz
It is however a double edge sword, in the matrix whoever is the most dominant/stronger will controls Firestorm entity at the least thats how i understood it.. Hmm, you seem to be speculating that Surfer's control of the Matrix would be > everyone currently merged with it.

I very much doubt that even IF Surfer was able to merge with the Matrix on his own, , that he would automatically be mentally pwning every character merged with it -- Of which are used to controlling it.

.

Originally posted by Roldz
Zeta-radiation is a little iffy, the one that cause both Cyborg and Firestorm to merged where Zeta/Quantum radiation mixed guess thats somethin outside his skills to control.. FS has shown control over Zeta-radiation a few times now,
So it affecting him negatively in a PIS-free environment is, meh.

Originally posted by Roldz
Well we know Surfer has manipulated/absorb quantum energy before, Zeta beam well where not to sure (its quite a norm tech for that race) thought Surfer can use stellar energies to teleport. So from that i quess we can speculate that he could replicate that feat and merged w/ FS fight him from the inside as they are kinda even outside.. Me no likey speculation.

Originally posted by Roldz
Then theres also that planetary/blackhole output blast i wonder if FS containment field/current body could survived that level of attack.. Then there's also the fact that FS can simply teleport or wormhole off the planet, and not have to worry about what said attack would have done to him.

Originally posted by Galan007
Hmm, you seem to be speculating that Surfer's control of the Matrix would be > everyone currently merged with it.

No not everyone just whoever Jason merged w/ either the prof or firehawk.. The rest the matrix already dissipated em..
Originally posted by Galan007
Me no likey speculation.

I very much doubt that even IF Surfer was able to merge with the Matrix on his own, , that he would automatically be mentally pwning every character merged with it -- Of which are used to controlling it.

.

There's really nothing we could do other than speculate whats being debated but course its got to be based/taken from they're own feat.

A few reason why i think Surfer could merge w/ Firestorm on his own..
1. A certain type of energy forcibly merge Firestorm and Cyborg..
2. Someone already accessed the Firestorm Matrix mentally..
3. DS tampered w/ the Matrix..
4. Surfer merged w/ an ancients ships matrix..
5. Surfer merged w/ a planet and gain controlled it from there.
6. After being forcibly merged w/ Blackbody, Surfer reconfigured/upgraded himself taking over blackbody's powersource..
7. Surfer CA found and exploited a universal level entities weakness..
8. Surfer then merged w/ this entity and w/ acquired insight took over its power..

Why Surfer >>>> Firestorm merged host mentally/will..
1. Pawned Mephisto with just will power..
2. Pawned a portion of the Other (psionic entity who even defeated mighty Galactus but was later prisoned by most of the cosmic deity in a dimension of its owned) w/ mental prowess..
3. Survived an attack of the totality of the Other..
4. Defeated the Endless who ate solar systems then transport them on deities mental plane..
5.. There's a lot more..

Firestorm offensive powers has never been used inside the matrix..
All battles fought inside it where mostly mental/will in gaining control over the Firestorm persona, in-fact someone did gain control over it while main host was present but only for a brief dough, he got pawned rather easily..
Originally posted by Galan007
FS has shown control over Zeta-radiation a few times now,
So it affecting him negatively in a PIS-free environment is, meh.

Yeah i agree w/ yeah Firestorm has manipulated zeta-rad before however the one that affected him is far diff. it was zeta-beam that passed through a portal.. Perhaps a mix. of chronal/dimentional/antimatter..
Originally posted by Galan007
Then there's also the fact that FS can simply teleport or wormhole off the planet, and not have to worry about what said attack would have done to him.
Well if Surfer fights mindlessly then yeah FS could easily avoid it but if done in opportune moment chances are its got a good chance of landing such attack..

Another FS is weak against is that containment field that was used by the SSOV team to contain him, he was unable to do anything while inside it.. Surfer CA should be able to detect this

The matrix is constantly absorbing energy non-stop to power FS, it can be overloaded quite easily at that.. Surfer is an energy source see fight against Krosakis..

The host body can be over tax's/exhausted, the longer this fight takes resulting in a force un-merging..

Just a few thing that FS is going against him on this fight giving Surfer some edge.. Just my 2cents..

Using Darkseid's pulling Dr. Stein out of the matrix as a justification for Surfer messing with the matrix is stupid logic. Darkseid is a high end skyfather. Surfer is top tier herald level.

None of those other control feats are comparable to the FS matrix.

Cosmic Awareness is the biggest piece of forum-bull attributed to Surfer. He's used it, what, once or twice in his entire career? And once was a boast that he could use it.

The Surfer

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Darkseid is a high end skyfather. Surfer is top tier herald level.


Only in your mind.

Darkseid himself says that, physically, he is evenly matched with Superman...

LOL!

Originally posted by Soljer
Only in your mind.

Darkseid himself says that, physically, he is evenly matched with Superman...

So what? Odin matches up better? And I'm getting real ticked at Starlin for some of the shit he's writing.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
So what? Odin matches up better? And I'm getting real ticked at Starlin for some of the shit he's writing.

Odin does what now?

Anywho - Darkseid isn't a high skyfather, and never really has been.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
So what? Odin matches up better? And I'm getting real ticked at Starlin for some of the shit he's writing. Umm... ya? He pimp slapped Thanos, and matched strength with Surtur...

Also, Odin isn't known for his outstanding strength.

Why, what's wrong with Starlin's writing on DS? Don't get me wrong, I hate his art (although DS looks surprisingly good), but what's wrong with teh writing?

the writing is hit&miss. Orion is being written as a berserk oaf. Bad. Darkseid is being written well as the evil god mastermind. Good. Metron is being downgraded. Bad. The new genesis crowd are generally being written as idiots. Superman is being kind of a dick. the art's fairly good.

All in all, it's a mixed bag.

Originally posted by Roldz
No not everyone just whoever Jason merged w/ either the prof or firehawk.. The rest the matrix already dissipated em..

There's really nothing we could do other than speculate whats being debated but course its got to be based/taken from they're own feat.

A few reason why i think Surfer could merge w/ Firestorm on his own..
1. A certain type of energy forcibly merge Firestorm and Cyborg..
2. Someone already accessed the Firestorm Matrix mentally..
3. DS tampered w/ the Matrix..
4. Surfer merged w/ an ancients ships matrix..
5. Surfer merged w/ a planet and gain controlled it from there.
6. After being forcibly merged w/ Blackbody, Surfer reconfigured/upgraded himself taking over blackbody's powersource..
7. Surfer CA found and exploited a universal level entities weakness..
8. Surfer then merged w/ this entity and w/ acquired insight took over its power..

Why Surfer >>>> Firestorm merged host mentally/will..
1. Pawned Mephisto with just will power..
2. Pawned a portion of the Other (psionic entity who even defeated mighty Galactus but was later prisoned by most of the cosmic deity in a dimension of its owned) w/ mental prowess..
3. Survived an attack of the totality of the Other..
4. Defeated the Endless who ate solar systems then transport them on deities mental plane..
5.. There's a lot more..

Firestorm offensive powers has never been used inside the matrix..
All battles fought inside it where mostly mental/will in gaining control over the Firestorm persona, in-fact someone did gain control over it while main host was present but only for a brief dough, he got pawned rather easily..

Yeah i agree w/ yeah Firestorm has manipulated zeta-rad before however the one that affected him is far diff. it was zeta-beam that passed through a portal.. Perhaps a mix. of chronal/dimentional/antimatter..

Well if Surfer fights mindlessly then yeah FS could easily avoid it but if done in opportune moment chances are its got a good chance of landing such attack..

Another FS is weak against is that containment field that was used by the SSOV team to contain him, he was unable to do anything while inside it.. Surfer CA should be able to detect thisLots and lots of speculation going on here -- So I'm not going to devle into that part of this debate any longer.

Originally posted by Roldz
The matrix is constantly absorbing energy non-stop to power FS, it can be overloaded quite easily at that.. Surfer is an energy source see fight against Krosakis.. Where did you hear this?

According to the good Professor, the power of the FS-Matrix is "infinite." -- No 'absorbing' of further energy would be required.

Also,
Can you explain to me how Surfer is going to overload an "infinite" power source?

Originally posted by Soljer
Only in your mind.

Darkseid himself says that, physically, he is evenly matched with Superman...

What the **** does Superman, Not holding back being a match for DS have to do with him not being a high end skyfather? Not a damned thing. DS Superman is his PHYSICAL match. Nothing more. Or hadnt' you noticed that desaad has been playing superman like a fiddle. Darkseid>>>>Desaad.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What the **** does Superman, Not holding back being a match for DS have to do with him not being a high end skyfather? Not a damned thing. DS Superman is his PHYSICAL match. Nothing more. Or hadnt' you noticed that desaad has been playing superman like a fiddle. Darkseid>>>>Desaad.
ON Top of the fact that Superman remembers his life PRECRISIS. PC Supers is Superman. THus DS and Superman being physical equals, as well as Orion, puts them far above Any top tiers listed in the tier guide.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
THus DS and Superman being physical equals, as well as Orion, puts them far above Any top tiers listed in the tier guide. Physically?

Originally posted by Galan007
Physically?

YEs Physically.

Superman remembering his pre crisis life due to the legion mind**** he recently received doesn't make him pre crisis Superman. The crisis still happened, the multiverse still changed. He's still not as powerful as he once was.

Originally posted by Soljer
Superman remembering his pre crisis life due to the legion mind**** he recently received doesn't make him pre crisis Superman. The crisis still happened, the multiverse still changed. He's still not as powerful as he once was.

An all-star Olympic athlete can be hit by a car, rendering him a quadriplegic -- and while he might be able to remember how fast he once was, nothing will change the fact that he will more then likely never be able to run that fast again.


Yep, I'm a philosophizer. dur

Originally posted by Soljer
Superman remembering his pre crisis life due to the legion mind**** he recently received doesn't make him pre crisis Superman. The crisis still happened, the multiverse still changed. He's still not as powerful as he once was.

HMM. YOu may be correct. But SUperman is still hella holy stronger than let's say Odin. Does that make Odin less than a skyfather?
On another note, we'll have to see how clark measures up to the JSA superman. Becuz that superman was far more powerful than Pre IC superman. He had years of solar absorbtion. ALL the Justice league members were more powerful. So if current supers is his match, well, Our hiearchy is shit. Cuz we dont' know where to place anyone. Just look at how Orion is a physical match for clark, and look where he's at.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Just look at how Orion is a physical match for clark, and look where he's at. That's because Orion simply is not a versatile character -- Thus would loose to those whom are versatile in ways he is not.

Just look at what FS did to him.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
HMM. YOu may be correct. But SUperman is still hella holy stronger than let's say Odin. Does that make Odin less than a skyfather?
On another note, we'll have to see how clark measures up to the JSA superman. Becuz that superman was far more powerful than Pre IC superman. He had years of solar absorbtion. ALL the Justice league members were more powerful. So if current supers is his match, well, Our hiearchy is shit. Cuz we dont' know where to place anyone. Just look at how Orion is a physical match for clark, and look where he's at.

Odin matched Surtur for strength. Your comparison fails.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Cosmic Awareness is the biggest piece of forum-bull attributed to Surfer. He's used it, what, once or twice in his entire career? And once was a boast that he could use it.
Why don't you read up a few issues of Surfers 3rd series, his 2nd and 4th series, heck why not pick all of em up, incl. his appearances .. Yahh'll start appreciating CA, and be one of its biggest supporter ..
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Using Darkseid's pulling Dr. Stein out of the matrix as a justification for Surfer messing with the matrix is stupid logic. Darkseid is a high end skyfather. Surfer is top tier herald level.
So anybody who forced FS to transform/merged back to forth from its host is equall to DS? Cause in a way they're actually missing w/ the matrix..

Ive never said anything about Surfer pulling anyone out of the matrix but rather him merging w/ it/FS by his own.. In my last post ive listed a few time when the matrix has been access by others and that included a blast that turned back FS to Raymond (ronnie) and forcibly merged another to the matrix; taken from your own logic nuclear bomb = DS..
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
None of those other control feats are comparable to the FS matrix.

Im taking Unilord >>>>>>> FS matrix... But to each his own..
Originally posted by Galan007
Lots and lots of speculation going on here -- So I'm not going to devle into that part of this debate any longer.

Actually they're not, all those feats/showing where taken from each chars. respected title.. Since both this char. have never meet before we can only compare similarities/weakness that could've work in there own advantages in this fight..
Originally posted by Galan007
Where did you hear this?

According to the good Professor, the power of the FS-Matrix is "infinite." -- No 'absorbing' of further energy would be required.

Also,
Can you explain to me how Surfer is going to overload an "infinite" power source?
Actually Stein also made a statement that FS/matrix is a tool..
I'll see if i can find some scans of this..

But righ now ive got to go to work..

Originally posted by Galan007
That's because Orion simply is not a versatile character -- Thus would loose to those whom are versatile in ways he is not.

Just look at what FS did to him.

In ORion's own series, he was able to use his astro force for magnetism. IN the DOTN he calls the harness to him and uses a blast immediately against Superman. He's also shown superspeed. IF he is EVENLY matched with superman, what does that tell you? He's certainly not the hulk. ANd that showing in Firestorm would simply be illogical writing or a low showing.

Originally posted by Soljer
Odin matched Surtur for strength. Your comparison fails.

Odin Also amps. It is well known that Odin mated with Geae for the reason as to Make Thor the strongest of the Asgardians. Your example fails.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Odin Also amps. It is well known that Odin mated with Geae for the reason as to Make Thor the strongest of the Asgardians. Your example fails.

You're correct Superman is stronger, but Odin can amp to higher levels.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
the writing is hit&miss. Orion is being written as a berserk oaf. Bad. Darkseid is being written well as the evil god mastermind. Good. Metron is being downgraded. Bad. The new genesis crowd are generally being written as idiots. Superman is being kind of a dick. the art's fairly good.

All in all, it's a mixed bag.

I'd say Orion was being a bigger dick than Superman by far.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's because Orion simply is not a versatile character -- Thus would loose to those whom are versatile in ways he is not.

Just look at what FS did to him.
What? Encase him in titanium? Lawlz @ McDuffie.

Wow, this match is even on a few levels.