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Anyone else watch this amazing anime?

nope never heard of it.

Well, I'm not exactly sure what the rules are here for posting copyrighted videos, but you could PM me if you're interested. I have 21 episodes.

Really like the Manga.

started watching the anime first. Got around to ep 7 which was where they were up to at the time and moved to the manga from there.

Holy shit guys. This is terrible. This is an anime forum and not one person here watches quality anime. This is ****ing terrible.

I'll probably watch the last two episodes just to see how it changes from the manga. From what I hear it's followed it very closely so far and I really didn't feel like seeing the same thing twice. Though seeing how it's going to end while the manga continues there are bound to be differences in the final episodes.

I wish i never read ahead from the manga. Totally ruined the last few episodes in the anime. DAMN MY CURIOSITY

Is it really that good?

I haven't taken the time to read or watch it yet.

Originally posted by Wild-Cherry
Is it really that good?

I haven't taken the time to read or watch it yet.


If you plan to watch the anime, whatever you do, watch the anime BEFORE reading the manga.
Last episode of Claymore is airing next week wednesday.

Check it out.

Originally posted by Katt
If you plan to watch the anime, whatever you do, watch the anime BEFORE reading the manga.
Last episode of Claymore is airing next week wednesday.

Check it out. No chance I'm watching the last epp. before the rest

but in any case, I'll keep that in mind

is the anime better?

Originally posted by Wild-Cherry
No chance I'm watching the last epp. before the rest

but in any case, I'll keep that in mind

is the anime better?


Ehe, meant check out the series
Nah, IMO manga was better. Strange thing is the anime followed the manga pretty accurately until episode 22 (21 or 22). Then they suddenly decided to break lose and make their own ending.

Well hopefully they'll make it a somewhat descent ending as the manga is still ongoing and being released 1 issue a month.

I do believe that the anime is much prettier to look at, and the voice acting and scenery are both beautiful. Also, extremely suspensful.

Originally posted by Katt
Ehe, meant check out the series
Nah, IMO manga was better. Strange thing is the anime followed the manga pretty accurately until episode 22 (21 or 22). Then they suddenly decided to break lose and make their own ending.

Well hopefully they'll make it a somewhat descent ending as the manga is still ongoing and being released 1 issue a month. ofc

Oh really? I'll probably check out the manga first...

Maybe not though....

Originally posted by Dusty
I do believe that the anime is much prettier to look at, and the voice acting and scenery are both beautiful. Also, extremely suspensful. I youtubed it and it looks good

Originally posted by Wild-Cherry
I youtubed it and it looks good

Youtube is shit quality.

Try this

http://www.tv-links.co.uk/listings/3/2887

Originally posted by Dusty
Youtube is shit quality.

Try this

http://www.tv-links.co.uk/listings/3/2887 Thanks!

Originally posted by Wild-Cherry
Thanks! No problem.

Yup its awesome, i especially love Ophelia who plays the game with Clare of chopping off her legs and getting her to reattach them before she dies lol. Sick but oddly funny..

I recently on another forum made myself a list of my top 10 animes

WC might now what forum

Either way, this is my #1

Well, last episode aired today.

Fantastic, however a tad unfulfillable.

Bump!

I just started watching this, it looks prettz good so far

It IS really good.

I like the manga better, though.

Yeah I just finished episode 3

It IS awesome!!

Hell Yeah! I've been waiting for this thread to be bumped!!

Manga readersMiria's alive, the rebelion has begun...and Raki survived the whole spike ordeal

This sums up Miria quite well (spoilerific of the recent chapters)

It was decently animated but it wasn't that good and the manga looks horrible.

Oh Astner, you are so edgy, you're never afraid to insult the popular opinion as though you're speaking a fact.

It's why I find you endearing, **** the haters.

Hey manga readersRaki did something!!! Now if only he could do something else. Plus the zombie no.#1's are being mobilized/released


Abyss feeders are still deadly

I liked this last chapter. I find Claymore much more entertaining than most other Manga. Raki reminds me of Guts except not such a crazed berserker. I like the fact that being trained by an Abyssal One in swordsmanship has made him super awesome with a sword.

Yea, if a real claymore got serious and didn't treat him as a human I'd bet on them, but like the twins say, "He'll beat any human foe."

Also, Dae is awesome. "I didn't solve the obedience problem we were worried about, but I released them anyway because, hey, Science!"

I find it funny how the Organization can't make a controlled single Awakened Being but they can bring the dead back to life.

Wonder when their going to show Clare again.

Bringing the dead back to life (by using a still-living sample as fuel) has little to do with control after all.

I'm not referring to the zombie Claymore, I'm referring to regular Claymore that can't awaken without trying to eat someone and destroy shit....at least ones that don't have twins to hold their minds

Easily one of the best anime's I have ever seen, to be honest. Bad last 4 episodes, but the rest? Absolutely incredible.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'm not referring to the zombie Claymore, I'm referring to regular Claymore that can't awaken without trying to eat someone and destroy shit....at least ones that don't have twins to hold their minds

Yea, it's a different area of research, one they're working on but which is very hard. Progressing in one area (like resurrection, or making stronger beings, or whatever) doesn't mean progress in another after all.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, if a real claymore got serious and didn't treat him as a human I'd bet on them, but like the twins say, "He'll beat any human foe."

Also, Dae is awesome. "I didn't solve the obedience problem we were worried about, but I released them anyway because, hey, Science!"


lo, yeah, that dude is hardcore.


He probably bates to his ideas of entropy.



Someone mentioned that they wanted Claire back...ME TOO!

They* need to bring her back.


*They as in the team that commented on bringing her back. If they bring her back, they bring back the Priscilla.

That's right, we all miss Clare. Now if this could stop switching between Miria's and the no as awesome Ghosts' stories, this manga would be even more awesome.

This series really deserves an anime remake, in fact they should just pick up after episode 22. of the anime and start fresh from there.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
This series really deserves an anime remake, in fact they should just pick up after episode 22. of the anime and start fresh from there.

This.



There's enough material for 4 complete seasons...or 50+ episodes. (I believe Japanese seasons are 13 episodes long. So four seasons would be 52 episodes.)


I mean 52 ADDITIONAL above and beyond the 22 already done. The animation was fine, already. I had no complaints. It was true to the manga art and even improved in some areas.

They should probably wait for the Manga to finish before doing so, though.

I recently finished the anime, where would be the best place to begin in the manga now that i'm finished?

That would probably be the War in the North stuff. It diverges around the Rigaldo fight, so vol 10 or 11.

Ok thanks

Originally posted by Samurai100
I recently finished the anime, where would be the best place to begin in the manga now that i'm finished?

Seriously, start at the beginning.

It will take you less than 5 hours to catch up. It's some nice "right before bed" reading.

Better than some of that other shit people read before bed.

Numerous late nights, here I come!

Raki. Is. Awesome.

There's Databook stats:


Databook Stats

Categories
Yoki:
Agility:
Muscular Strength:
Spirit/Intelligence:
Perception:
Leadership:


Databook 1:
Clare, No. 47
E E E D C+ E

Teresa, No. 1
S A A A S B

Priscilla, No. 2
A+ A+ B+ D A+ C

Sophia, No. 4
B C A+ B B B

Noel, No. 5
B A+ C B B C

Irene, No. 3
A A B A+ B A

Elena, Claire's friend
D D D E D C




Databook 2:
Miria, No. 6
B+ A+ C B C A+

Deneve, No. 15
B+ B C C+ C C

Helen, No. 22
C+ C B C C D

Ophelia, No. 4
A A A C B+ C

Galatea, No. 3
A B B+ A A+ B




Databook 3:
Jean No. 9
B C B+ A+ C C

Rafaela, No. 5
A A A A A C

Flora, No. 8
B A C B C B

Undine, No. 11
C C A C C C+

Beth, No. 2
S A+ A+ A+ A+ E

Alicia, No. 1
S A+ A+ A+ A+ E


Spoiler: Awakened Being stats

Databook 2:

Categories
Yoki:
Agility:
Strength:
Invulnerability:
Intelligence:

Awakened Beings-
Priscilla, No. 2
EX SSS+ SSS S+ SS

Ophelia, No. 4
SS SSS SS S SS

Dauf, No. 3
SSS+ S SSS+ SSS C

Unnamed Male/First Awakened Hunt
SS SS S S+ SS

Unnamed, Single Digit/Ophelia hunt
SS+ SS SS S SS

Katea, No. 32
A S A A S

Hilda, No. 6
SSS+ SS+ SS S SS

The new Claymore chapter is out.


The zombie no. #1 are kicking ass and the organization is scared of them. There's even one with an advanced version of Miria's technique.

I'll also add that despite being zombies revived with yoki after dying gruesome death they look f@cking gorgeousdroolio

Dae is so funny! "What are you complaining about? I TOLD you that I picked them in order of strength!"

So let's see, the weakest of the three is Dust Eater Cassandra, or at least so it seems, and she's being held off by three single digits. And Roxanne is the jerk picking on the twins.

Originally posted by Q99
There's Databook stats:


Databook Stats

Categories
Yoki:
Agility:
Muscular Strength:
Spirit/Intelligence:
Perception:
Leadership:


Databook 1:
Clare, No. 47
E E E D C+ E

Teresa, No. 1
S A A A S B

Priscilla, No. 2
A+ A+ B+ D A+ C

Sophia, No. 4
B C A+ B B B

Noel, No. 5
B A+ C B B C

Irene, No. 3
A A B A+ B A

Elena, Claire's friend
D D D E D C




Databook 2:
Miria, No. 6
B+ A+ C B C A+

Deneve, No. 15
B+ B C C+ C C

Helen, No. 22
C+ C B C C D

Ophelia, No. 4
A A A C B+ C

Galatea, No. 3
A B B+ A A+ B




Databook 3:
Jean No. 9
B C B+ A+ C C

Rafaela, No. 5
A A A A A C

Flora, No. 8
B A C B C B

Undine, No. 11
C C A C C C+

Beth, No. 2
S A+ A+ A+ A+ E

Alicia, No. 1
S A+ A+ A+ A+ E


Spoiler: Awakened Being stats

Databook 2:

Categories
Yoki:
Agility:
Strength:
Invulnerability:
Intelligence:

Awakened Beings-
Priscilla, No. 2
EX SSS+ SSS S+ SS

Ophelia, No. 4
SS SSS SS S SS

Dauf, No. 3
SSS+ S SSS+ SSS C

Unnamed Male/First Awakened Hunt
SS SS S S+ SS

Unnamed, Single Digit/Ophelia hunt
SS+ SS SS S SS

Katea, No. 32
A S A A S

Hilda, No. 6
SSS+ SS+ SS S SS

This databook stuff makes no sense.

Howso?

Originally posted by dadudemon
This databook stuff makes no sense.

I agree with Q99, Claymore databooks actually make sense....which is more than I can say for some seriesNaruto

The real problem with the Naruto ones is they have so many key factors that don't show up in it. Claymore, on the flip side? Everyone fights with swords. Nice and simple.

Originally posted by Q99
The real problem with the Naruto ones is they have so many key factors that don't show up in it. Claymore, on the flip side? Everyone fights with swords. Nice and simple.

They friggin make Hidan stronger than Gaara in their databooks. Yeah....I kinda distrust them alot.

On topic though I'd seriously like to address how hot these ex. no#1 are. If there were a sexiest zombie contest I'm pretty sure they'd win or be in the high tier.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
They friggin make Hidan stronger than Gaara in their databooks. Yeah....I kinda distrust them alot.

The thing is, I agree with the individual stat ratings in those case. It's just that things top out at 5 and Gaara's sand control is worth far more, it's a special power.

Hidan's stamina is high because he won't die. Gaara's is high because he grew up a jinchuuriki, giving a lot more useful chakra. And so on.

Gaara wins because of uncharted factors.





Because a sexy zombie contest has so much competition

You would be surprised.

Originally posted by Q99
Howso?

They created stupid categories like SSS and EX. Stupid.

It's like he just threw on arbitrary labels for funsies onto his favorite characters.


I actually like Naruto's ninja databook better...and I like your ninja ranks the best.

Ah yes. While have a 'special' rank, 'multiple special' rank, and 'exception' rank is kinda silly, they should've just started lower, it still does manage to convey the information.

The one issue I have with it is that the Awakened beings universally have stats equal or higher to a number 1, even ones that high-level Claymore have handled solo (Ophie's known for solo-hunting them after all, and Teresa ripped Rosemary apart), though I suppose that can be chalked up to them having the vulnerability of a large, much bulkier body, and no sword.

Originally posted by Q99
The one issue I have with it is that the Awakened beings universally have stats equal or higher to a number 1, even ones that high-level Claymore have handled solo (Ophie's known for solo-hunting them after all, and Teresa ripped Rosemary apart), though I suppose that can be chalked up to them having the vulnerability of a large, much bulkier body, and no sword.

That was one source of irritation for me, as well.

It's like there's no rhyme or reason to the ranks.

The only "exception" would be Priscilla. She's the only one that could be considered stupid strong in speed and everything else.

Also, of all the characters, Clare should have the highest rank in spirit.

I think all the ranks should have stopped at S, including for abyssal ones.

Also, "leadership" should be completely thrown out as both Claymore AND awakened beings are primarily solo characters. It wasn't until the war in the North that you saw much cooperation among the claymore AND awakened beings.






More on topic. I dislike the fact that the former number ones are soloing a group of people that made single digit ranks look weak. That's just stupid and annoying. It will be believable if they say something like, "these are much stronger than even abyssal ones" due to x. Whatever x is, it had better damn well be a good explanation.


Also, one of the brethern DID remark on how strong Dae made them...so I guess that is the decent explanation for now.



Finally.....BRING BACK CLARE, DAMNI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!11!1111!!1

She's not the smartest Claymore around though Also she didn't start out good at resisting awakening either.

Of all the stats, that's the one that is the least clear from the name. It's obviously not pure willpower.

I believe it's the ability to control one's own yoki and resist awakening- Irene's quicksword was so dangerous because she had such better control than Clare and she stressed her ability to do so, after all, and Jean was incredibly hard to break and make transform, and they both have very high ratings. Alicia and Beth also have A+ despite being emotionless, and that is precisely what their training is about, controlling it.

Priscilla and Ophelia both have very low ratings despite their strength, and both awakened easily.



The problem with that is every high-ranking Awakened will then have strait Ss, telling you nothing about how they compare to each other.

Unless they change the starting point, at least.



I disagree, it's specifically brought up as important during Abyssal hunts where groups are the norm (as well as dealing with big Yoma nests, and taking down high-ranks rogues who don't submit), and stressed heavily Miria's greatest strength, how in group fights she's the best leader the Org has despite only being #6.

It doesn't matter in solo fights, but even before the war in the north it's a factor that comes up reasonable often for higher rank warriors.



Number 1s usually make other single digit ranks look weak, though. These are 3 of the top #1s ever, and recall that Teresa barely had any trouble with an entire group of rather badass single digits (Priscilla excepted). So this is three almost-Teresas they're fighting.

Also remember, Miria is the only one of the Northern 7 there right now. The rest are all current warriors. Lesse... there's #3, 5, and 9 in Single Digits there. All the other single digits are either dead, missing, or with the rest of the Northern Warriors at the northern pass (or in Miata's case, with Galatea).

So it's not exactly a stocked lineup. They're really lucky the twins are there.

Another possible reason why the ex no#1. are so strong is because Dae used Priscilla's arm to bring them back. They might get extra power from her left over yoki.

Also this generation of Claymore actually seems weaker to me than Clare's so that could also be a plausible cause.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka

Also this generation of Claymore actually seems weaker to me than Clare's so that could also be a plausible cause.

Oh yea, definitely.

Consider that Clare's #5 was a former #2 who was about tied with her #1, and that #4 and #3 were pretty close to Rafaela. Twins aside, you had 3 people who'd make reasonably solid #1s (and #1 Ophie? That just sounds scary ).

Audrey and Rachel aren't bad, but they're likely Noel and Sophia types. Audrey maybe a bit better than that... but weaker than Galatea or Irene in their days I'd say.

Clare's generation was stacked. They had clearly fully recovered from the Teresa/Priscilla affair and then some, unlike Clarice's generation where they're still in the process and thus have pretty normal single-digits, Miata excepted.

I'll be starting this series next.

I just read the new Claymore chapter too. I'll put tags since nobody appears to have talked about it.

Roxainne and Casandra flashback...mostly Roxainne or the duration of the chapter. She apparently has the Claymore version of the Sharingan as her ability and apparently Yoki suppresion rivalling Priscilla's.

Also we find out why Cassandra is called the Dust Eater due to Roxainne seeing her technique. Along with that a good number of high ranking officers seemed to inconspicuously die after Roxainne copied their fighting style.

Overall the "Love and Hate" # 1 is a hot but creepy Claymore.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I just read the new Claymore chapter too. I'll put tags since nobody appears to have talked about it.

Roxainne and Casandra flashback...mostly Roxainne or the duration of the chapter. She apparently has the Claymore version of the Sharingan as her ability and apparently Yoki suppresion rivalling Priscilla's.

Also we find out why Cassandra is called the Dust Eater due to Roxainne seeing her technique. Along with that a good number of high ranking officers seemed to inconspicuously die after Roxainne copied their fighting style.

Overall the "Love and Hate" # 1 is a hot but creepy Claymore.

Roxanne can perfectly suppress yoki detection from one person. She aims it, basically. It's a lot more specific than Theresa's ability which was just pure yoki supression all around. I got the impression that it was "perfect" because it doesn't make sense that such a weak technique would be anything but perfect.

It's still similar only it's absolute to one Claymore/Yoma/whatever as you stated.

So are we going to get a flashback on Hysteria or what? I seriously think there should be a follow up chapter whenever flashbacks occur in this series otherwise I feel like a month has been wasted.

I expected something more esoteric from Cassandra's power, but Roxanne's is great, properly creepy! Cassandra's head-bob and flexibility reminded me a bit of Ophie's rippling sword, only using the whole body to attack from an odd angle and with more power, rather than making the sword act weird.

I dunno if Roxanne's suppression has to be perfect, she only did it when Cassandra was distracted fighting an Awakened, hard to say if it'd hold up in melee against a strong reader, but it's great for spying or ambushes! Her real advantage seems to be synchronizing with her opponent, with the hiding thing just a side benefit.

The eye thing... that means she's a Defensive Type number 1, doesn't it? I think the only one we know.

Cassandra seems like she's probably the weaker #1 here... although that still leaves her uber powerful. Really high in pure stats, she was fighting the three single-digets including Audrey without using her unusual move.

Wow, Miria keeps being badass

Meh...we've seen Miria before. Now the hot zombie chick taking out Audrey and Rachel(Cassandra IIRC) was pretty cool.

It's also kind of sad that Miria has to use more Yoki to keep up with Hysteria...I thought a longer duel would've commenced. However speaking of Yoki I wonder if any of these zombies are able to awaken.

Cassandra's interesting. She's cute, but lops people's limbs off. No wonder she's shy.



Well they have been at it for a bit, and Hysteria's technique is just better...and of course, Hysteria *can't* go as high powered as she can without awakening ^^ Momentary Awakening Phantom is Miria-only.



The possibility was mentioned by the Org people. If any of them do, I'd bet Roxanne.


---

Btw, side topic. If the rebels (with or without the new big batch of recruits) ranked up, how do you think they'd line up? I think with this new move, Miria's passed Galatea as the Number 1.

I think Claymore is stacking up to be quite interesting (it always has been, but it's better than ever).

I like that Raki is an uber badass human. He's top-tier human due to his training with Isley. I also like that he appears to be one of the most level headed characters after the time skip. Meaning, I like Raki's character development.



I miss Claire. I want Claire back.


Lastly, I did not like that everyone as getting chopped to bits. Not cool. That's the only thing I have not liked about the story, thus far. These are supposed to be "awesome" characters but at least Miria is pretty much holding her own.


But...I don't like that Miria, who could almost take on half of the organization's claymores at once, is being treated ALMOST like a punk birch. Not cool, man... NOT COOL!

Well, the new generation, save for Clarice, Miata, and arguably Deitrich and Renee, aren't as 'main characters' as the 7 Ghosts.

We saw how well awesome characters did against Rigaldo in the Northern Campaign, even Jean. Being cool doesn't mean you won't die.



These are number ones, and the best number ones of all time, save for Teresa.

Or to put it another words... Miria's been fighting at the level of a maybe a weak to average #1 before. Now with her new move is she finally moving into the uber leagues.


And consider who she faced in terms of numbers in the assault on the origanization- 3 (Audrey, who was said to be holding back), 5 (Rachel), 9 (Nina). Those were the only single digits in the big brawl. So while there were plenty of numbers, only a few were skilled, and with her speed she could avoid being swarmed.

Compare to what Teresa did- taking out three top-5 Claymores without much problem (and Irene's probably strong for a #2), plus another #1 strength (Prissy), and these three are supposed to be close to *that*.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, the new generation, save for Clarice, Miata, and arguably Deitrich and Renee, aren't as 'main characters' as the 7 Ghosts.

We saw how well awesome characters did against Rigaldo in the Northern Campaign, even Jean. Being cool doesn't mean you won't die.

That's what I thought but I could not remember since Claymore seemed to have taken a hiatus and I hadn't read it in a while (I let it "pile" up.)

Yes, it's been that long.

So, yeah, I recognize, now, that those are the "new guys" not the "7 Ghosts."


Originally posted by Q99
These are number ones, and the best number ones of all time, save for Teresa.

Or to put it another words... Miria's been fighting at the level of a maybe a weak to average #1 before. Now with her new move is she finally moving into the uber leagues.

I disagree.

I think the Miria has long since been above #1 category for quite some time. 4 out of the 7 have, as well.

In other words, I think that how they were portrayed, they (some) have long since surpassed the #1s including Theresa.

Why?

Because they routinely defeated abyssal ones like it was nothing for 7 years and they make other single digits look like punk b*tches.

I know you'll say that #1's are a whole head and shoulders better than other single digits in their generation and these single digits are a whole head and shoulders above the other single digits except for Theresa.

If they were so awesome, then why did they die?

Lastly, they did quite well against Riful when they rescued the #5 (Rachel) and the #3 (Audrey).


Rachel remarked that "the world progressed" since Riful was sleeping in her pit, implying that her current generation is stronger then the previous ones. That's ambiguous, but we don't know how far that progression is...but considering they were able to do decently against an abyssal one until she stopped playing around, that supports my point. All others were slaughtered against any abyssal one...even if they were playing around.


Moving on, to further support my point...


http://www.mangareader.net/485-29381-19/claymore/chapter-70.html

Low-ranking claymore, despite the boast that "this" generation has exceeded the past, can't even see the "7 ghosts" moving.




http://www.mangareader.net/485-29381-21/claymore/chapter-70.html

Riful could not even detect Miria seemingly "flash step" right on to her and was shocked.



http://www.mangareader.net/485-29381-22/claymore/chapter-70.html

Riful could not move fast enough to prevent Miria from saving Rachel.


http://www.mangareader.net/485-29381-23/claymore/chapter-70.html

Riful cannot react to getting her "tenticles" torn to shreds and Audrey "stolen" from her.


http://www.mangareader.net/485-29381-26/claymore/chapter-70.html

An abyssal one's speed is not match even for one using just a single arm.


http://www.mangareader.net/485-29382-8/claymore/chapter-71.html

Riful finds these four to be of such high caliber that she requests they become her ally to protect her from the oncoming enemy she knows will kill her:




Finally, Claire tells Riful that it is not possible for her to cut off her arms and legs:
http://www.mangareader.net/485-29382-26/claymore/chapter-71.html

Granted, Claire did not think she could defeat Riful, but she still thought her evasion skills (while holding another knocked out claymore) were enough to stimey Riful.

The only # "ones" capable of destroying an abyssal one were the anti-abyssal #1s created by the organization and they were a specific set of twins that were basically 'awakened beings' on level with an abyssal one while using the "control" of the other twin...so it's really just another abyssal one fight an abyssal one. I do not think we can say that any #1 could evade Riful. She's particular as an abyssal one because of the speed at which her ribbons can move and in how many different directions/vectors she can attack from.




Having said all that...I don't know why the 7 could not defeat her. I say the 4 could have defeated her. Multiple ribbons came at just one of them with her back turned...and she's definitely not one of the strongest of the 7. So why in the world wouldn't they be able to take her out?



Final point about why I don't like the direction of the #1s being so strong: I'm stupid because only Miria has been able to keep up and she's the only one of the 7 ghosts. This makes my point almost moot. These are supposed to be the best of the best when it comes to the #1s and Miria struggling against them should not be a surprise and I was wrong.


I forget about the others with her NOT being part of the 7 Ghosts and so I retract my previous statements. I feel better about the direction...but still I don't want to see Miria having to stuggle so hard against even a strong #1.




Originally posted by Q99
And consider who she faced in terms of numbers in the assault on the origanization- 3 (Audrey, who was said to be holding back), 5 (Rachel), 9 (Nina). Those were the only single digits in the big brawl. So while there were plenty of numbers, only a few were skilled, and with her speed she could avoid being swarmed.

I did not know there were single digits. Keep in mind, I forgot about much of the details.

That makes me think even more about how lame it is that Miria is getting sent to the ropes if there were not one, not two, but 3 single digits when she assualted the organization.

Originally posted by Q99
Compare to what Teresa did- taking out three top-5 Claymores without much problem (and Irene's probably strong for a #2), plus another #1 strength (Prissy), and these three are supposed to be close to *that*.

Is it Teresa? I always spelled it Theresa.


Anyway, that was a different generation. Claire has since become far stronger than Irene but my estimations. I can't prove it, but I think Claire is even stronger/better than Teresa at this point.

I would say that 4 out of the 7 ghosts could, individually, take on the top 5 single digits from the current organization.

I wasn't aware this was still on-going ill have to start reading it again.

Oh yes, a lot of cool stuff has happened recently.



They've never really defeated a single Abyssal one. When Helen and Deneve tried, against the already-damaged Isley, they were sure they were going to die. This was specifically noted, that Helen felt like they had no chance at all. They escaped Riful twice, but that's it, merely escaped.

And Teresa flat-out curbstomped an awakened number 2/former #1. Remember when the Awakened Rosemary was taunting her in the flashback and then she just *twisted* her arm off bare-handed? And then, like, went to 10% yoki (not that she needed to even use that much, just to avoid getting *rusty*) and killed her in a moment.

Compare to the 7 Ghost's fight with Bloody Agatha in Rabona (an Awakened #2). They beat her quite solidly of course, but it took a fair bit more time.




IMO that boast of Rachel and Audrey was wrong ^^ I think most of the time the ranks stayed fairly even in most ranks (save at the very upper levels, which fluctuate a bit more. Clare's gen was stacked due to Rafaela being around and Alicia and Beth throwing things off. Galatea's more like a 2 than a 3, and so on), Dietrich and Nina seemed pretty close to their counterparts from Clare's time, or maybe just a little weaker. So yea, a pair of double digits (probably 20s at that!) get easily knocked out by some effectively low-single digits.


Later Helen and Deneve tried to pull that same knockout move on a single digit (Dietrich, #8) who avoided both their attacks, so stronger current warriors can still hold their own.



All combined they probably could.

Miria and Clare are likely #1 and 2 level. Deneve and Helen are certainly top-5 level, and Cynthia and Tabitha probably too. Yuma... ok, she's like an 11, maybe 9 if we're generous, but that's still pretty strong


I don't know if the four of them right there could (IMO Riful's performance was because she was largely in 'play' mode, and their appearance caught her totally off-guard, she had no idea how strong they were due to them hiding their yoki), Miria did pick a small team for speed for a reason, she didn't *want* to fight an Abyssal One and take casualties, but if the whole team did, yea, they're collectively an incredibly badass squad.




Yea, but we have precedent for a legendary #1 being worth even more single digits than that. And Rachel's move is nigh-useless against Miria specifically since it takes setup time, plus Nina's just a #9 who's good at offense but lacks defense.

So of the single digits there, only Audrey was all that suited to taking her on. And anyone below Nina #9 was just too slow to keep up and do more than make Miria spend time on them.

Now, if Miata was both loyal and there, things might've gotten really, really rough on Miria (since Miata's supposed to be strong enough to kill Galatea), but the ones present weren't enough. ... 'cept for the nameless awakened twins of course, but they obviously did provide a challenge.




I think it can be done both ways.



Stronger than Irene, I think so (I wonder if she's caught up with Irene's quick sword, which is supposed to be *twice* as strong as when Clare first got it, but even if she hasn't, she has her yoki reading which Irene doesn't). But Ms. Faint Smile really was super-crazy strong, it's easy to forget just how ridiculously broken she is.

Fighting Irene, Sophia, Noel, and an unreleased Priscilla at once, she didn't even have to release Yoki.



Hm... well, are you considering that the top two are Alicia and Beth?

They throws things off, since they're both identically powerful (i.e. extremely), and if they're both there Alicia can Awaken to Abyssal level.


Audrey #3 is the first of the real, normal warriors, and she's pretty good... but obvious Miria beats her solidly (if Audrey's serious, then Miria merely has to try), and Clare does too. Helen or Deneve vs her might be good fights, but those two are probably stronger too.

Miata #4 is a real threat. She's supposed to be #1 strong, just too childlike. So she's the only one who might seriously challenge Miria or Clare.

Rachel #5 is strong, but her setup takes awhile. Good partners with Audrey, which if working together boosts them some, but not enough. Most of the non-Yuma ghosts are at least this level.

And the rest go down from there.

Originally posted by Q99
Oh yes, a lot of cool stuff has happened recently.



They've never really defeated a single Abyssal one. When Helen and Deneve tried, against the already-damaged Isley, they were sure they were going to die. This was specifically noted, that Helen felt like they had no chance at all. They escaped Riful twice, but that's it, merely escaped.

I didn't mean to say "abyssal ones" I meant awakened beings.

I make lots of "name" error placement mistakes. That's my "thing"...kind of like with Ittan in the Naruto thread: I have a really hard time with names/labels.

Originally posted by Q99
And Teresa flat-out curbstomped an awakened number 2/former #1. Remember when the Awakened Rosemary was taunting her in the flashback and then she just *twisted* her arm off bare-handed? And then, like, went to 10% yoki (not that she needed to even use that much, just to avoid getting *rusty*) and killed her in a moment.


She was a former #1, not a current #1. I would put that one as a weak #1.

Originally posted by Q99
Compare to the 7 Ghost's fight with Bloody Agatha in Rabona (an Awakened #2). They beat her quite solidly of course, but it took a fair bit more time.

I would put Rabona on level with Awakened beings. She had the "wild" and powerful size that was on par with Riful.


I think that some high level awakened beings are not very much weaker than abyssal ones. The only requirement, as far as I'm aware, for an abyssal one is having awakened while being a #1.




Originally posted by Q99
IMO that boast of Rachel and Audrey was wrong ^^ I think most of the time the ranks stayed fairly even in most ranks (save at the very upper levels, which fluctuate a bit more. Clare's gen was stacked due to Rafaela being around and Alicia and Beth throwing things off. Galatea's more like a 2 than a 3, and so on), Dietrich and Nina seemed pretty close to their counterparts from Clare's time, or maybe just a little weaker. So yea, a pair of double digits (probably 20s at that!) get easily knocked out by some effectively low-single digits.

Since I think that some of the statements of characters in Naruto are wrong (when you don't), I won't argue this point. I could argue my side quite well, but I feel that taking away your interpretation of the manga is a bit out of the spirit of enjoying the story.


Originally posted by Q99
Later Helen and Deneve tried to pull that same knockout move on a single digit (Dietrich, #8) who avoided both their attacks, so stronger current warriors can still hold their own.

I don't remember that. Scans, please (I'm not being a jerk...I seriously don't remember that).



Originally posted by Q99
All combined they probably could.

I came to this conclusion because they, invidivually, could destroy 3-5 ribbons at once, of hers. I figure that an individual could not take on the full "ribbon" attention of Riful's but 4 of them probably could considering it seemed effortless to cut up 3-5 ribbons so "effort" may have them cutting up 5-10 and 4 would be 40. Riful never showed 40 attacking ribbons at any given time. She was quite angry at Clarie and was attacking with what appeared to be everything she had and she didn't have anymore than 20 ribbons attacking at once.

Originally posted by Q99
Miria and Clare are likely #1 and 2 level. Deneve and Helen are certainly top-5 level, and Cynthia and Tabitha probably too. Yuma... ok, she's like an 11, maybe 9 if we're generous, but that's still pretty strong

I'd put Miria, Clare, Deneve, Tabitha, and Helen all at various levesl of #1. I agree that there is great variance in the #1's power from generation to generation. So there is a bit more room for placing them as #1s.

Cynthia is more difficult to place. Yuma and Tabitha are def. not #1s.


Originally posted by Q99
I don't know if the four of them right there could (IMO Riful's performance was because she was largely in 'play' mode, and their appearance caught her totally off-guard, she had no idea how strong they were due to them hiding their yoki), Miria did pick a small team for speed for a reason, she didn't *want* to fight an Abyssal One and take casualties, but if the whole team did, yea, they're collectively an incredibly badass squad.

She got quite angry with Clare so I wouldn't say she was playing after that.

But I see their top 4 taking Riful with little to no injuries (meaning, a clean victory, but a difficult one).




Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but we have precedent for a legendary #1 being worth even more single digits than that. And Rachel's move is nigh-useless against Miria specifically since it takes setup time, plus Nina's just a #9 who's good at offense but lacks defense.

So of the single digits there, only Audrey was all that suited to taking her on. And anyone below Nina #9 was just too slow to keep up and do more than make Miria spend time on them.

We clearly saw, though, that even someone who is quite clearly as strong as one of the most powerful #1s in the Organization's history will go down against 30+ clarymores regardless of their ranks. It's just overwhelming.


That is...unless you're Guts from Berserk and then you can take on 100 or more at once.

Originally posted by Q99
I think it can be done both ways.


It can, but maybe not in the manga. They have "official" romanticized releases, at times.



Originally posted by Q99
Stronger than Irene, I think so (I wonder if she's caught up with Irene's quick sword, which is supposed to be *twice* as strong as when Clare first got it, but even if she hasn't, she has her yoki reading which Irene doesn't). But Ms. Faint Smile really was super-crazy strong, it's easy to forget just how ridiculously broken she is.

By twice as strong, I only took it to mean that it was twice as fast.

She was strong, sure...but I don't think she would have stood even a small chance against Priscilla's fully awakened form. I also don't think Irene was as strong as most other #2s.

Originally posted by Q99
Fighting Irene, Sophia, Noel, and an unreleased Priscilla at once, she didn't even have to release Yoki.

I would say that Priscilla was as strong as some #1s before she "awakened".

I think Sophia and Noel would got down against most of the other top 5s from any other generation. Irene and Priscilla were the only real "challenges" but even then, I think that any of the top four from the 7 ghosts could have held their own against Irene and Priscilla.

I say this because they held their own quite easily (r*ped them) against awakened beings the generally take a squad of four that requires some decently ranked Claymore and always a single digit to take down...and not all of those missions are successful from what we gathered by their conversations against that one male awakened being (towards the beginning of the manga). I mean, really...they were tearing right through the awakened beings like they were nothing where others (even single digits) were having trouble.


We know exactly why this is: massive control over their yoki and partially awakening themselves.

Originally posted by Q99
Hm... well, are you considering that the top two are Alicia and Beth?


No because they are both dead and Alicia is supposedly the strongest #1 in the organization's history. Together, they were designed to take out the abyssal ones. There should be no question, that they are the strongest considering I think that it would take the top 4 from the Seven Ghosts to take out Riful, that I think Alicia and Beth are stronger than the top 4 of the seven ghosts.

Originally posted by Q99
They throws things off, since they're both identically powerful (i.e. extremely), and if they're both there Alicia can Awaken to Abyssal level.

Exactly. This is why I don't include them...and they are dead.


Originally posted by Q99
Audrey #3 is the first of the real, normal warriors, and she's pretty good... but obvious Miria beats her solidly (if Audrey's serious, then Miria merely has to try), and Clare does too. Helen or Deneve vs her might be good fights, but those two are probably stronger too.

Exactly and this is what I was referring to.

Originally posted by Q99
Miata #4 is a real threat. She's supposed to be #1 strong, just too childlike. So she's the only one who might seriously challenge Miria or Clare.

I don't think so because, as you pointed out, the #1s strength varies quite a bit, and being at a minimum of #1 level against 4 warriors that are quite a bit into the #1 level, is not the same thing.

Originally posted by Q99
Rachel #5 is strong, but her setup takes awhile. Good partners with Audrey, which if working together boosts them some, but not enough. Most of the non-Yuma ghosts are at least this level.


Exactly. Against Riful, Miria made them look like they were ranked in the 30s. She did in almost a mere instant what they could not do in quite a few exchanges against Riful.

Originally posted by Q99
And the rest go down from there.

Indeed. The current generation does not seem as strong as previous ones (no pun inteded) outside of Alicia nad Beth lending credence to your claim that Rachel's statement was just an empty boast. But, like I said, I did not want to argue that point unless you want me to do the "dadudemon" thing that irritates people. (hint: lots of posting)



Note to others: It may seem that Q99 and I are doing lots of arguing, but we've hardly argued about anything. Feel free to read our posts to gain more insight into the characters as I think our discussion helps flesh out some of the stuff that isn't quite so apparant.

Of course. The impressive part is she awakened and it was still a total curbstomp.



As big, but not nearly as much offense. Also there's a regen difference, Abyssals normally have a ton more energy in the tank for that kind of thing.

Remember that Galatea + Miata was supposed to be enough to beat her, while wounded Isley was > Helen and Deneve.



It's possible for a lower number to be abyssal level, Priscilla, Beth, and Rafaela most obviously, but remember the level of destruction Isley and Luciela caused when they fought, and Luciela's supposed to be the weakest of the three. I don't think Agatha could hang in that kind of fight if she wanted to, I think Isley, Luciela, and by extension Riful, would very solidly defeat her.

And consider Rigaldo- he was super-uber for an awakened, killing two single digits and pretty much beating all of the half-awakeneds before Clare awakened, but he was still no match at all for Isley.




Sure: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/claymore/v16/c085/19.html



Keep in mind that she's also supposed to be quite fast in body (Faster than Renee, who was noted to be a fast runner) yet she was just standing there.

I think a lot of things were throwing Riful off: One, she wanted them captured, so she could use them to awakened Rafaela/Luciela. Two, they had no yoma energy. Three, she absolutely didn't expect them to be there. I don't think that's her all.

You're probably right on the number of ribbons, but keep in mind she can regen lost ones, and when they were cutting they were only doing some damage to the tips, so there's probably very little actual 'damage' done to her there and she could probably keep up that level of fighting for a long, long time.



Mm, I don't think Helen and Deneve are quite number 1. We've had a couple people mention that there's quite a gap between Miria/Clare and the rest of the team.

I'd say they're probably around pre-timeskip Galatea level or a bit higher.



That I'll disagree with. Official stat wise, she's really high across the board.

And she handled someone as powerful as Ophelia without releasing yoki (and Ophelia in turn is *way* strong for a #4, much stronger than Sophia #4 of Teresa's generation, and who soloed an awakened single digit. Plus in Miria's flashback was noted as being strong enough to solo awakened #6 too, with the only reason she didn't being because she wanted Miria to do it).



I'll not only agree but I'd say she's even well-above-average for a #1.



Well that is one problem with a comparison, the current gen doesn't really have a proper top 5, so you'd have to start comparing lower single digits, who of course won't match up.

They obviously haven't *completely* recovered from losing so many in the North. I don't think even Audrey, the strongest normal Claymore they have (i.e. not twins or Miata), is a match for any of Clare's generation's top 5.

Teresa's generation strikes me as probably more what a normal top 5 would be like (save for Teresa and Priss), and more of a fight but still superior than the current gen. Irene could take Audrey though Audrey could take Sophia or Noel. Sophia or Noel could take Rachel in a fight, or Renee...



They did damage too, both of them (Rachel cut some ribbons from the ground, and with Audrey's help did the torso cut. Audrey reflected some ribbons to make them hit her), and Audrey was able to defend from attacks.


Granted, Riful could turn it way up from that level and none of that really 'hurt', but they still did some minor damage.

Originally posted by Q99
Of course. The impressive part is she awakened and it was still a total curbstomp.



Well, from what was stated, Theresa's sensing ability gave her an almost precog ability to predict and react making her an excellent anti-"anything using Yoma" unit. Only against those fully supressing their yoma would be a good match for her (for example, the seven ghosts).

So I consider awakened beings to be at a disadvantage against Theresa. Clare showed us an example against that powerful male awakened being. Clare had a moment where she seemed to have "precog" on par with Theresa so it's kind of an uber power to have against creatures that use Yoma.

This is why I don't put as much stock into Theresa defeating a (weaker) former #1 that had awakened.






However...would you hold it against me (call me biased) if I said that I am a Theresa fanboy?

She's one of my favs because she was really wise, ultra powerful, and had nice character development for her short life.

I like Clare the best, however. schmoll



Originally posted by Q99
As big, but not nearly as much offense. Also there's a regen difference, Abyssals normally have a ton more energy in the tank for that kind of thing.

Remember that Galatea + Miata was supposed to be enough to beat her, while wounded Isley was > Helen and Deneve.

It's been a while and I quickly read it once many moons ago...


but...


Wasn't Agatha utterly owning every last thing in site?

Agatha is also quite comparable to Riful in both her offense, power, and size. She even has a very similar attack method (ribbons for Riful and rope like ribbons for Agatha).


She is referred to as "fearfully strong" by Galatea, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-29386-21/claymore/chapter-75.html


Additionally, Galatea seems to think that the organization would have sent group after group in an attempt to destroy Agatha, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-29386-21/claymore/chapter-75.html

Which makes me think that she's quite strong and dreadfully so. Probably the strongest non-abyssal one we've seen. But that should be obvious because she's a #2.


It's also obvious that Miata is quite strong. So strong that she's very deserving of a "potential to be #1" label. She seemed to be giving an "trained" Galatea quite the fight:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-29387-2/claymore/chapter-76.html



Additionally, it's stated that Miata faced many awakened beings without injury until Agatha:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-29388-24/claymore/chapter-77.html



Now is where the fun starts:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-29388-28/claymore/chapter-77.html


No one could "see" Clare's actions...even the uber sensor type Galatea.

Not even Agatha. I would say that Miria is still stronger than Clare.


That's the difference in power between someone who has the power to be a #1 and the Seven Ghosts.



Random aside, Miria is looking very s*xy here:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-29389-10/claymore/chapter-78.html



Lastly, they made short work of an awakened #2 in her true form:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-29389-23/claymore/chapter-78.html



It appeared as almost a "mere instant" to a 47.

IMO, this #2 is among the strongest #2s...strong enough to be a #1 (I am taking liberty in the implications of the statements) for some of the weaker generations' #1s.

Additionally, Clare has gotten so uber awesome that she can do what seems like a flash step to close a gap in an instant, then cut to pieces the arm of Agatha...while only slightly cutting the "hostage's" hair. She then offers to not cut Galat
ea's hair. Absurd accuracy and speed:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-29389-27/claymore/chapter-78.html








Originally posted by Q99
It's possible for a lower number to be abyssal level, Priscilla, Beth, and Rafaela most obviously, but remember the level of destruction Isley and Luciela caused when they fought, and Luciela's supposed to be the weakest of the three. I don't think Agatha could hang in that kind of fight if she wanted to, I think Isley, Luciela, and by extension Riful, would very solidly defeat her.

Well, with Priscilla, she had the potential to be a #1 and she was supposedly uber green to the Organization when she fought Theresa. What that means is that she had the potential to be the strongest #1, by far, after she came into her own (we hear of others rising through the ranks over the years..an equal growth period would make her that much more uber. Compare that to Miata who was a #4).

Originally posted by Q99
And consider Rigaldo- he was super-uber for an awakened, killing two single digits and pretty much beating all of the half-awakeneds before Clare awakened, but he was still no match at all for Isley.

That's a good point. But I always took Isley to be rediculously strong even among Abyssal ones (until Priscilla came along).




Originally posted by Q99
Sure: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/claymore/v16/c085/19.html

She clearly stated to have held back. I don't see that as anything uber other than trying to hold back. Why would they think they needed to hold back against a single digit? Do you see my point? (Like I said...I didn't want to argue this point about the "current generation" but that was one of about 4 pieces of evidence that support the claim of a stronger generation).



Originally posted by Q99
Keep in mind that she's also supposed to be quite fast in body (Faster than Renee, who was noted to be a fast runner) yet she was just standing there.

I think a lot of things were throwing Riful off: One, she wanted them captured, so she could use them to awakened Rafaela/Luciela. Two, they had no yoma energy. Three, she absolutely didn't expect them to be there. I don't think that's her all.

You're probably right on the number of ribbons, but keep in mind she can regen lost ones, and when they were cutting they were only doing some damage to the tips, so there's probably very little actual 'damage' done to her there and she could probably keep up that level of fighting for a long, long time.

Their yoki energy supression (lol, I spelled it "yuma"...freudian slip) energy is part of what makes them such awesome warriors. This is why their top 4 MIGHT be able to take on Riful and win.

And, to that last part, you're partially right. She got exhausted quite quickly against Alicia's attacks. So she's definitely ahead of Tabitha, but not monstrously ahead. (That fits to reason because Tabitha is a strong former #2 and Riful is a former #1).

I would expect a victory coming from them quickly exhausting her regen and then coming into to cut up the body (not with top down swings, but left to right swings). They all have the ability to cut through her as they made short work of her ribbons.

Originally posted by Q99
Mm, I don't think Helen and Deneve are quite number 1. We've had a couple people mention that there's quite a gap between Miria/Clare and the rest of the team.

I'd say they're probably around pre-timeskip Galatea level or a bit higher.

This is part of the reason I was thinking Miria's struggle was so strange.


It was stated that Clare and Miria were significantly stronger than the rest. Based on their abilities, I would put most in a top 5 spot with the top 4 being significantly into the 1 range.

While you put Helen and Deneve as less than one, I put them into a 1 ranking with Clare and Miria being almost better than any other #1s except for the Beth and Alicia range.

Originally posted by Q99
That I'll disagree with. Official stat wise, she's really high across the board.

And she handled someone as powerful as Ophelia without releasing yoki (and Ophelia in turn is *way* strong for a #4, much stronger than Sophia #4 of Teresa's generation, and who soloed an awakened single digit. Plus in Miria's flashback was noted as being strong enough to solo awakened #6 too, with the only reason she didn't being because she wanted Miria to do it).

Note in my post that I said "weaker #2" not a "weaker #3."


I came to that conclusion based on the fact that she's very close to a #3 in overall ability from a later generation:

Galatea: #3

Yoki: A
Agility: B
Strength: B+
Mental: A
Sensing: A+
Leadership: B


"Flash-Sword" Irene: #3

Yoki: A
Agility: A
Strength: B
Mental: A+
Sense: B
Leadership: A

Both are #3s. So I would say she's a strong #3 (in her time) but a weaker #2.



Originally posted by Q99
I'll not only agree but I'd say she's even well-above-average for a #1.

I don't think so. That's not what her stats indicated. Theresa DID get used to her and was able to overcome her. Keep in mind that she did so well against Theresa because she could supress her Yoki so well. That, alone, wasn't enough: she needed the speed and strength to keep up with Theresa.

I would say that in 4 years time, she would have become the strongest #1 in history.



Originally posted by Q99
Well that is one problem with a comparison, the current gen doesn't really have a proper top 5, so you'd have to start comparing lower single digits, who of course won't match up.

They obviously haven't *completely* recovered from losing so many in the North. I don't think even Audrey, the strongest normal Claymore they have (i.e. not twins or Miata), is a match for any of Clare's generation's top 5.

Teresa's generation strikes me as probably more what a normal top 5 would be like (save for Teresa and Priss), and more of a fight but still superior than the current gen. Irene could take Audrey though Audrey could take Sophia or Noel. Sophia or Noel could take Rachel in a fight, or Renee...

I agree with the first two paragraphs. On Theresa's generation, I disagree. I think they were the second strongest generation in history. The first strongest would be the current gen (but deceased) only because of their top two. Their top 2 could, potentially, take out any single top 5 in any generation.



Originally posted by Q99
They did damage too, both of them (Rachel cut some ribbons from the ground, and with Audrey's help did the torso cut. Audrey reflected some ribbons to make them hit her), and Audrey was able to defend from attacks.

But that was a Riful that was literally having a laugh at their expense so she could enjoy the pleasure of the hopelessness of their endeavors (she's a bit...sick).

Still, it's quite awesome that they could even cut her ribbons...and part of the reason I was saying that Rachel wasn't full of sh*t....well, at least not COMPLETELY full of sh*t.

So, you've covered 2 out of my 4 reasons, already.


Originally posted by Q99
Granted, Riful could turn it way up from that level and none of that really 'hurt', but they still did some minor damage.

So we actually agreed on this point, as well.


Hmmm...


It looks like Claymore is a much more amicable topic for us than Naruto.

I'd counter that Galatea's a strong number #3, who's only a #3 because of the twins.

Here's Sophia #3
Yoki: B
Agility: C
Muscular Strength: A+
Spirit: B
Perception: B
Leadership: B

As you can see, she's not just below Galatea and Irene, but a good deal below.

And compare Galatea and Irene to Rafaela:
Yoki: A
Agility: A
Muscular Strength: A
Spirit: A
Perception: A
Leadership: C

They're just slightly below her, and she's a 'Soul link' #2 who was said to be about as strong as her sister.



I'd say Clare's generation is stronger still. It has the same top 2 (though not as polished as they'd later be), but instead of Audrey, Miata, and Rachel, it has Galatea, Ophelia, and Rafaela.

Here is the stats of the weakest top 5 member of Clare's time (Ophie):
Yoki: A
Agility: A
Muscular Strength: A
Spirit: C
Perception: B+
Leadership: C

My feeling is that after they got Alicia and Beth, and re-activated Rafaela, they didn't have to risk strong single digits very often, and got lucky with prodigies (Ophie's at least as young as Clare, since Priscilla killed her family), so they got choked with higher level people and they effectively have 2 #1s and 3 #2s.




Well, it's more strait forward. Abilities tend not to be as funky, aside from Awakened ones, so there's fewer odd interactions. Everyone uses swords. There's two areas where someone can improve, physical stats or yoki powers.

---

On Riful, I feel we never *really* got to see her go all-out. Even when she got frustrated and tried to catch the Ghosts, it was more of a "Darn ants!" thing (underestimating them). We never got to see her take on a strong foe seriously until she faced a completed Alicia with multiple Abyss Feeder backup.

And I will note she did slaughter the Abyss Feeders, who aren't easy foes (she killed something like 10 of them. Even when limited to her human form she offed them easily).

Originally posted by Q99
I'd counter that Galatea's a strong number #3, who's only a #3 because of the twins.

Here's Sophia #3
Yoki: B
Agility: C
Muscular Strength: A+
Spirit: B
Perception: B
Leadership: B

As you can see, she's not just below Galatea and Irene, but a good deal below.

And compare Galatea and Irene to Rafaela:
Yoki: A
Agility: A
Muscular Strength: A
Spirit: A
Perception: A
Leadership: C

They're just slightly below her, and she's a 'Soul link' #2 who was said to be about as strong as her sister.



I'd say Clare's generation is stronger still. It has the same top 2 (though not as polished as they'd later be), but instead of Audrey, Miata, and Rachel, it has Galatea, Ophelia, and Rafaela.

Here is the stats of the weakest top 5 member of Clare's time (Ophie):
Yoki: A
Agility: A
Muscular Strength: A
Spirit: C
Perception: B+
Leadership: C

My feeling is that after they got Alicia and Beth, and re-activated Rafaela, they didn't have to risk strong single digits very often, and got lucky with prodigies (Ophie's at least as young as Clare, since Priscilla killed her family), so they got choked with higher level people and they effectively have 2 #1s and 3 #2s.

I think we have strong evidence that Irene is a strong #3, but not a strong #2.

Based on the #2's we actually have ratings on.

I thought we only had two #2 ratings:

Priscilla and Beth:


Priscilla:
Yoki: A+
Agility: A+
Strength: B+
Mental: D
Sense: A+
Leadership: C



Beth:
Yoki: S
Agility: A+
Strength: A+
Mental: A+
Sense: A+
Leadership: E

Beth is listed as the same as Alicia.

So they don't really count.


Other than that, we don't really have legit #2s to use as a comparison because the only other #2s are Beth and Priscilla....which are rediculous to use as comparisons because:

1. Beth is supposed to be stronger than any #1 in history.

2. Priscilla was ultra-green but with ginormous potential.



The only other comparison is to #3s and Irene is a strong #3.





Originally posted by Q99
On Riful, I feel we never *really* got to see her go all-out. Even when she got frustrated and tried to catch the Ghosts, it was more of a "Darn ants!" thing (underestimating them). We never got to see her take on a strong foe seriously until she faced a completed Alicia with multiple Abyss Feeder backup.

And I will note she did slaughter the Abyss Feeders, who aren't easy foes (she killed something like 10 of them. Even when limited to her human form she offed them easily).

I expect that she was trying her absolute hardest against Clare as she was one of the best sensors around while also being a superb warrior.


I suspect that she was the weakest of the big 3.

Rafaela and Irene were both #2s. Rafaela with her sister, and Irene under Teresa for almost all of her career.



But compared to Sophia #3, she's not just a little ahead, she's practically a whole letter ahead across the board.

And Audrey #3, who we don't have stats for, strikes me as more a Sophia than a Galatea or Irene in performance.



Keep in mind she did not know that. Clare was taking suppressors, and she had only met her when she was comparatively weak.

And she wanted Clare alive, so would hold back for that reason too, accidentally killing her would be bad.



Rubel outright said at one point that if the Abyssal ones came into conflict, Luciela was the one most likely to die.

Originally posted by Q99
Rafaela and Irene were both #2s. Rafaela with her sister, and Irene under Teresa for almost all of her career.

But they weren't #2's in the ratings.


Former and present are different.

The ratings are for what they were at the time.


Using them out of context is not logical. You must stick to the ratings if you are going to use the ratings.


Former #2s are not #2s. Irene is a former because a better #2 came along.

Rafaela is quite the special case because she was a #2 and then spent years as an anti-Claymore unit. She had years since her #2 status to improve making her not a logical comparison: she is stronger than almost every single #1 in history.

In fact, she is considered equal in power to the former #1, her sister, furthering my point that she's not really a legit comparison because she's being held back, on purpose, by the organization because she's qutie the special unit this late into the organization's game.







Originally posted by Q99
But compared to Sophia #3, she's not just a little ahead, she's practically a whole letter ahead across the board.

And Audrey #3, who we don't have stats for, strikes me as more a Sophia than a Galatea or Irene in performance.


Isn't it more logical to conclude that she's just a weaker #3 rather than saying that all the #3s and #2s are just really strong?


But, wait, Sophia is not #3, she's a #4. Compared to Galatea, she's fairly in line, as I've shown.

Additionally, it looks like the 1-3 claymores are further ahead in the only two rated generations with the #1s being significantly ahead of the other two...in each generation.



Originally posted by Q99
Keep in mind she did not know that. Clare was taking suppressors, and she had only met her when she was comparatively weak.

And she wanted Clare alive, so would hold back for that reason too, accidentally killing her would be bad.

Was Clare taking suppressors? Or are you talking about pre-time skip?

In which case, yeah, she took them.

Time skip was what I was referring to. I don't remember them taking them.

Also, no, at that point, she was trying to kill Clare for her rejection.



Originally posted by Q99
Rubel outright said at one point that if the Abyssal ones came into conflict, Luciela was the one most likely to die.



That does not seem the case based on feats. Luci seemd to put up quite a horrendous fight against Isley to the point of greatly weakening Isley.


I'd also note that Isley was an Abyssal One for over 70 generations of Claymores.

I would also say that Isley chose Luci because Riful had Retardo Perv Man at her side to lend a hand (he would have at least provided a tad bit of support that would turn the tide in Riful's favor, imo, against Isley.)

Originally posted by dadudemon
But they weren't #2's in the ratings.


Former and present are different.

The ratings are for what they were at the time.

Irene was #2 for years and years, then #3 for a day.




Former means they were at that rank, often for a really long time, and thus may be more representative of their old rank than their new one depending on circumstances, and in the case of people bumped down by Priscilla especially so.

Priscilla had better stats than Rafaela, after all (3 A+s!).



And I think it says something that her ranks are only a little better than Galatea and Irene.


Personally I doubt she's stronger than almost every #1 in history, just being in an anti-claymore unit for years doesn't make her necessarily majorly improved (especially considering she tossed her old special and developed a new one), but she is number 1 strong.






The other #2s and #3s either have special circumstances, or are blocked from higher rank by absurd obstacles.




#3 for years, #4 for a day.




One of the things for the ghosts was they spent so long with their yoka hidden, they no longer showed up at all, just like with suppressors, until they finally released their yoki. Part of why they had to develop yoki-less forms of their moves (Windcutter instead of quicksword, New Phantom).

Clare had no presence, and neither did the others.




Still, I think she'd still go for the wound rather than kill, to give herself the option of changing her mind.

Riful sent attacks but it was a pretty brief attempt, and she didn't run after. So Clare didn't have to defend against all that much.





That fits. They're both stronger than Luciela.

All three are probably pretty close.




Riful was an Abyssal One starting one generation after him, so almost the same applies. She's the first female #1, remember.




Ah, but when he made the plan, he had Rigaldo, who's stronger than Dauf.

Originally posted by Q99
Irene was #2 for years and years, then #3 for a day.

That still does not change what I said, though. I've already responded to that thought.


We also do not know how long it took for them to arrive at their destination. Irene's demotion was given via word of mouth straight from herself.

So a "day" is not known, either. They all travel on foot. It could have taken some of them months to reach that spot.




Originally posted by Q99
Former means they were at that rank, often for a really long time, and thus may be more representative of their old rank than their new one depending on circumstances, and in the case of people bumped down by Priscilla especially so.

Priscilla had better stats than Rafaela, after all (3 A+s!).

No, it means that out of all the Claymore, the organization had determined that she was at that level...until someone came along more deserving of that rank. It does not speak, however, of relativity between generations of claymore: that's what the stats do.




Originally posted by Q99
And I think it says something that her ranks are only a little better than Galatea and Irene.
I think my point was better: generally, there is very little variation in the top 3 claymore ranks...unlike 4 and beyond which seem to have much more variation in ranking.


Originally posted by Q99
Personally I doubt she's stronger than almost every #1 in history, just being in an anti-claymore unit for years doesn't make her necessarily majorly improved (especially considering she tossed her old special and developed a new one), but she is number 1 strong.

I do, too. I was wrong. She was A, not A+.

She would be very deserving of a rank 2. She's definitely better than Irene, overall...further proving my point that Irene was a weaker rank 2 but a strong rank 3.






Originally posted by Q99
The other #2s and #3s either have special circumstances, or are blocked from higher rank by absurd obstacles.

Not true.

My point above further proves my point.




Originally posted by Q99
#3 for years, #4 for a day.

Still not known if it was a day or longer. Most likely longer.

Additionally, she was a weak #3 and a moderate #4.




Originally posted by Q99
One of the things for the ghosts was they spent so long with their yoka hidden, they no longer showed up at all, just like with suppressors, until they finally released their yoki. Part of why they had to develop yoki-less forms of their moves (Windcutter instead of quicksword, New Phantom).

Clare had no presence, and neither did the others.

But would would a great strength be "not counted" among their abilities? To me, that only proves my point of how strong they really are.




Originally posted by Q99
Still, I think she'd still go for the wound rather than kill, to give herself the option of changing her mind.

Riful sent attacks but it was a pretty brief attempt, and she didn't run after. So Clare didn't have to defend against all that much.

If she couldn't see them or feel them...that's not true. She was going wild.


She couldn't go after because she could detect their presence.





Originally posted by Q99
All three are probably pretty close.

Based on feats, I'd still put Isley and Luciela as stronger.


Originally posted by Q99
Riful was an Abyssal One starting one generation after him, so almost the same applies. She's the first female #1, remember.

I don't remember that being stated.

She was also very young when she awakened as she's still in her child form, pointing towards Isley having gotten more battle experience.


Riful also stays secluded and Isley appears to travel more. Isley also battled or fought more during his awakened life.




Originally posted by Q99
Ah, but when he made the plan, he had Rigaldo, who's stronger than Dauf.

Wait...how do you know Rigaldo is stronger than Dauf?

Rigaldo is a former #2 and Dauf is a former #3...but Dauf has this uber duber hard skin.

I would agree that Dauph has much slower speed but he also has stupid strong skin.

I would normally give the speedster the edge...unless the other has extreme durability.


Just because one has an overall higher rank, does not mean they could beat the other in a fight.


Case-in-point: Priscilla would probably make short work of Irene on down, despite her greenness to the org. She's much lower, overall, than Irene and I would say Irene has a much faster sword.

So? Point is she was still #2 for a long time.

You can't talk about what was normal for a rank by tossing out where someone's strength placed them for the majority of their career.




In most of Teresa's time, 3 and 4 had almost identical power.

In Clare's time, 3 through 5 were all very close, and Miria identified the big jump in power as between 5 and her.



.... I don't know what that has to do with them hiding yoki.

Point is, to everyone they read as putting out no yoki, and thus could not gage their strength without seeing them fight. Only Galatea could sense someone with suppressed power.



But part of that is we've seen them in an all-out fair throwdown, while Riful didn't really have a similar opportunity, and again we do have Rubel saying "if they fight, Luciela's the one who's probably gonna die," to Rafaela. An outright statement counts for a lot.

Helen treated Isley like much more of a punk than when the ghosts met Riful, too.




It was, I think when she was first introduced.

She's also the youngest number 1 ever.



Yea, but that's a difference of a few years next to the many many decades both have been awakened (decades? Centuries?). And her young age also means that she awakened pretty fast too.

1st generation of Warriors- Isley.
2nd- Riful
77th- Teresa.

Meaning Luciela was probably 75 or 76.

For the vast majority of the existence of Abyssals, it's just been the two of them sitting around counterbalancing each other.




What makes you say that? Isley didn't start moving until Priscilla came to him, and we saw Riful actively hunting for awhile herself.

We've seen Riful be more hands-on than Isley.



True, Dauf has his really hard skin, but Rigaldo had good offense too, he was much stronger than the Claymore as shown when tossing them around. It'd be really, really hard for Dauf to connect with him, and he is strong enough he probably can wear Dauf down.

It'd be a nice battle to see them fight at the least.




Priscilla's a case when we know she had higher stats and rated against each other we know she came out on top, while with Rigaldo and Dauf we know Rigaldo rated higher.

Originally posted by Q99
You can't talk about what was normal for a rank by tossing out where someone's strength placed them for the majority of their career.

Yes I can because we have more than one example of #2 not being as strong as she is.

In other words, you can't talk about what was normal for a rank by throwing in only one example compared to multiple examples (Keep in mind, Theresa was also a #2) that were stronger.


Originally posted by Q99
In most of Teresa's time, 3 and 4 had almost identical power.

In Clare's time, 3 through 5 were all very close, and Miria identified the big jump in power as between 5 and her.

No, in Theresa's time, 3 greatly outclassed 4 and 5.

Keep in mind that I'm using Theresa, Priscilla, Irene as the top three. True top 3. Why? Because before Theresa...there was her #1...then Irene.

So it would appear that a "true" top 3 is more like 1. Theresa. 2. Prisclla. 3. Irene.


Because we move to the next generation and we get 1. Alicia. 2. Beth. 3. Galatea.

4 is a significant drop in both generations.


#5 in Clare's generation is a very special exception because she was supposed close to power to a #1, her sister. That's fairly obvious since she's "As" across the board (minus leadership).



Originally posted by Q99
.... I don't know what that has to do with them hiding yoki.

Point is, to everyone they read as putting out no yoki, and thus could not gage their strength without seeing them fight. Only Galatea could sense someone with suppressed power.

The first "would" should be a "why".

I'm asking why a great strength is being discounted by you because that's a bit unfair to them for having trained for years to do that.



And this sounds a lot like Dragonball. hmm



Originally posted by Q99
But part of that is we've seen them in an all-out fair throwdown, while Riful didn't really have a similar opportunity, and again we do have Rubel saying "if they fight, Luciela's the one who's probably gonna die," to Rafaela. An outright statement counts for a lot.

Helen treated Isley like much more of a punk than when the ghosts met Riful, too.

And I would rather go on feats than a silver-tongued manipulator.

And this is Helen we're talking about. A Rank #22?




Originally posted by Q99
It was, I think when she was first introduced.

She's also the youngest number 1 ever.

It seems that she would be a weak #1 based off of how young both she was and the organization was.

However, the quote, I believe, just says she was he first #1 of the female only generation. Isley was literally the first generation.

I believe you got the idea that she came right after Isley turned to an abyssal one from the notion that they would have switched over to female only claymores after the loss of Isley.

While sound logic, it is not necessarily true. Many generations could have passed until they perfected/realized females were more stable.



Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but that's a difference of a few years next to the many many decades both have been awakened (decades? Centuries?). And her young age also means that she awakened pretty fast too.

1st generation of Warriors- Isley.
2nd- Riful
77th- Teresa.

Meaning Luciela was probably 75 or 76.

For the vast majority of the existence of Abyssals, it's just been the two of them sitting around counterbalancing each other.


We have no idea how many #1s awakened and were destroyed. For the simple fact that the organization sent something like 30 Claymores after Riful should indicate that they may have been actively destroying abyssal ones.



Originally posted by Q99
What makes you say that? Isley didn't start moving until Priscilla came to him, and we saw Riful actively hunting for awhile herself.

We've seen Riful be more hands-on than Isley.


Because when he awakened and become an abyssal, he took control of the northern lands.


Also, Isley fought Priscilla and lived. Some speculated that he was able to harm her head in a way that caused her to forget. (not forums here)

Originally posted by Q99
True, Dauf has his really hard skin, but Rigaldo had good offense too, he was much stronger than the Claymore as shown when tossing them around. It'd be really, really hard for Dauf to connect with him, and he is strong enough he probably can wear Dauf down.

It'd be a nice battle to see them fight at the least.

Dauf didn't seem to be getting worn down at any point, though. He's slow as fudge. I just don't see Rigaldo's claws doing much when it took uber attacks from the claymore to do significant damage to his flesh.

However, Rigaldo (Rigardo?) didn't seem to be wearing down from his adventures against the claymore, either.

So I don't know the outcome.


Originally posted by Q99
Priscilla's a case when we know she had higher stats and rated against each other we know she came out on top, while with Rigaldo and Dauf we know Rigaldo rated higher.

Actually, Priscilla didn't have higher stats than Irene, overall. It's a bit irritating that they moved her ahead of Irene because the organization, almost without exception, always puts the overall higher rated warrior ahead of the others. Assign each letter a number.

Make it a higher number with f- being 1.

f- = 1
f = 2
f+ = 3
d- = 4
d = 5
d+ = 6
c- = 7
c = 8
c+ = 9
b- = 10
b = 11
b+ = 12
a- = 13
a = 14
a+ = 15
s- = 16
s = 17
s+ = 18
ss- = 19
ss = 20
ss+ = 21
sss- = 22
sss = 23
sss+ = 24



Then for each category, add it up.

The higher overall number means a higher rating.

Do that for each measured generation. You will see that Priscilla is quite a large exception (there may be others, but I didn't check them all).

We also know Rigaldo rated higher, but they apparently were competitive with each other. Dauf's armor makes him a special case kind of like Theresa's sensing ability makes her quite formidable even against awakened beings...despite the awakened beings being stronger. Clare's quick sword was obviously too fast for Dauf but that still didn't work on him.

Hooray!!! Claymore came out yesterday.

Miria and Hysteria keep cancelling each other out, dealing blows that vary in intensity. Roxainne gets bored with the twins and pretty much tries to one shot them. They survived and tried to fight her again.

The highlight of this chapter is another flashback concerning Cassandra's past. She starts remembering her last momments and literally reopens her old wounds. Stuff happens from there on too...

may i have a copy of the episodes? avid fan here!

I look forward to the next chapter.

Actually I want this to be weekly serialized. It's better than Bleach and One Piece, at the moment....well, pretty much always.

^ Don't we all? However Claymore is about women...and we all know how Shonen treats women right? At least I think Claymore's a part of Shonen.

I think there was a time where One Piece was better than Claymore although at the momment Claymore trumps both.

Yea, Claymore's shounen fight.

Last week, I was watching Claymore for the first time. This show's pretty awesome.

I saw episode 8 today. It's completely messed up.

New Claymore chapter out. I must say I have a new found respect for Miria although I do wonder why the hell Hysteria is concerned about beauty in a fight?

Roxainne is just as awesome and crazy as ever oh and the highlight: All three zombie Claymore begin to awaken right after Cassandra's grand opening scene

Miria is made of badass. She just top herself, after just unveiling a super-badass technique, after a super-badass survival.

As for concern on beauty- it's probably that which lead her to elevate her speed technique to such a high level. She focused on making the most flawless technique (one just like what Miria had dream of), and did.

Indeed. All Hail Miria. Though I wonder how she's going to deal with the situation she's in now.

It's still pretty silly but I can understand that point. Though Miria doesn't need flawless techniques cause she's Miria

I hope Miria heals both her arms back on. Don't want another armless "quick blade" type running around, do we?

Yea, reattaching shouldn't be a problem.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Indeed. All Hail Miria. Though I wonder how she's going to deal with the situation she's in now.

It's still pretty silly but I can understand that point. Though Miria doesn't need flawless techniques cause she's Miria

Also, to be fair, it's not like Hysteria suddenly becoming inelegant would've saved her ass ^^ It's just she would've never thought of Miria's technique.

--

Btw, Dae- best troll, or best troll ever?

"Oh, I just wanted to see three Abyssal Ones created *and* draw that uberAwakened here. Y'know, just for fun."

So Daae is trying to draw out Pricsilla then

I agree, Miria was badass this chapter

I still like it that Raki, a mere human, is such a badass.


Rank in, generally, on the Claymore scale. Is he strong enough to be considered a single digit? If so, where would you place him?


If he's not, where would you place him?


My guess he is falls somewhere around 8. He could take on the twins...but they were not trying him as hard as they could: only testing him. Raki is easily better than multiple soldiers at once.


Is he Guts (Berserk) level, though? I don't think so. In fact, based on Guts quick movements with that giant dragon slayer (towards the beginning of the series) I'd say Guts could easily be a #1. His movements would be similar to the "quick sword" and they are depicted as such. So Raki is not at a "Guts" level...yet.


Still, it's great to see a human do so well in a place of super powered beings.

Single digit? No way, not even close.


Flora, number 8, could simply windcutter him and win in one second. Jean's drill sword (number 9) would be way too much for him to defend against. Deneve and Helen when we met them could've beaten him quite solidly too, etc. etc..

Like, 20s-30s maybe.

Nah, I disagree. I still think he's around an 8.

He could easily dodge Jean's drill sword. He can move his blade fast enough and move fast enough to avoid windcutter.

I think Deneve would experience a masacre at his hand. Helen is fodder.

I think once we get to people like Rachel, he gets beaten. Similar or superior speed with strength that he cannot match.

Hah, he's shown nothing like that speed



You're completely overlooking that even basic Claymore are superhuman across the board in speed, strength, etc., and that said characters also have great skill with a sword, aren't you?


----

Raki's cool now and all, but he simply hasn't shown that much power.

Originally posted by Q99
Hah, he's shown nothing like that speed

Nah, he has. He fought decently against the new twins...they were not quite 1s yet, but were decently powered than most single digits.



Originally posted by Q99
You're completely overlooking that even basic Claymore are superhuman across the board in speed, strength, etc., and that said characters also have great skill with a sword, aren't you?


And he can keep up with them.

Don't forget that the weakest of them, Clare, had difficulty with a few Yoma. He can slay them with ease. He also can slay the rod Yoma, which were getting the better of some decent Claymore.




----

Originally posted by Q99
Raki's cool now and all, but he simply hasn't shown that much power.

I disagree. I think you're low-balling him. He should be higher but he lacks a special "super" skill that all single digits have. If he had one, then he could contend for a low position in top 5.

Really...You guys would rank Raki that high. Sure if he went through the Claymore procedure then maybe but I dont think he's even in the 20s let alone single digits.

Currently I'd put Raki at Clare's series start level..maybe slightly above that. The twins weren't really trying to kill him and Claymore's are already better then humans physically for the most part.

Totally with you, wakka



Clare handled most yoma with ease too, and even handled small groups without much problem on occasion. Beating low-ranking yoma isn't that hard, the only solo one she had problem with was the really old and strong one where she didn't have her sword, only weak normal blades.

Also don't forget with the twins, he only got a draw, they totally underestimated him because they didn't think he could fight, they were holding back due to him being human and thus couldn't kill him, and he had no yoma energy to read.

He had many advantages that don't apply to Claymore of the same strength level. And, of course, unlike a Claymore of the same strength level he can't simply release more yoma power to amp his strength, speed, or so on.



Not even remotely. He doesn't have stats on that level. The top 5 are known for their ability to solo Awakened Ones and he's never fought a foe like that.

Miria pre-awakened phantom move was the level of a top-5, and she could handled the Twins when they not only didn't hold back but were using fully awakened mode. Her base states were well above their non-awakened levels before her phantom move.

Well based on the theory that Raki=series start Clare, that should put him at least above Clarice's level. Though for the most part Clarice is more of a mock Claymore.

Hah, yea, Clarice is not an impressive fighter

Cool, and I like her a lot, but she's not strong.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Really...You guys would rank Raki that high. Sure if he went through the Claymore procedure then maybe but I dont think he's even in the 20s let alone single digits.


He was trained by Isley for years...so he does have his "sword-play" and "killing of Yoma" training from the organizatin, by proxy, from Isley....and probably then some because Isley was a remarkable swordsman in his heyday. ANd Raki can kill Yoma with ease and those awakened Rod-yoma things that game decent warriors trouble. He's no lower than 20...but no higher than 5. I am making an argument that he's around an 8.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Currently I'd put Raki at Clare's series start level..maybe slightly above that. The twins weren't really trying to kill him and Claymore's are already better then humans physically for the most part.

No, he's definitely stronger than that version of Clare because Clare almost died a few times against Yoma in the beginning and she had to activate (which is bad...because it makes it to where a Claymore will awaken, sooner) her Yoki.

He could have easily defeated the new twins who could do better than getting turned to mince-meat against the Zombie #1...which means they are definitely powerful and into the single digits (because even a #5 would be easily defeated by a #1).



Originally posted by Q99
Clare handled most yoma with ease too, and even handled small groups without much problem on occasion. Beating low-ranking yoma isn't that hard, the only solo one she had problem with was the really old and strong one where she didn't have her sword, only weak normal blades.

Also don't forget with the twins, he only got a draw, they totally underestimated him because they didn't think he could fight, they were holding back due to him being human and thus couldn't kill him, and he had no yoma energy to read.

He had many advantages that don't apply to Claymore of the same strength level. And, of course, unlike a Claymore of the same strength level he can't simply release more yoma power to amp his strength, speed, or so on.


Actually, I don't see anything you bringing up as a legit reason to lower his potential ranking, at all.


His feat against the twins is legit. You can discredit it all you want...but...at that point, they were already going against the organization. Why arbitrarily still adhere to rules that might save their lives? Sure, they were testing him...but he bested them and said he could have easily taken their swords.

Clare almost died against a group of Yoma (in the beginning of the series) and had to activate your Yoki to take them all out. Activating her Yoki is dangerous because it shortens her "life span" as a claymore.

Originally posted by Q99
Not even remotely. He doesn't have stats on that level. The top 5 are known for their ability to solo Awakened Ones and he's never fought a foe like that.


Do you have evidence for that?


Because I don't think you do.


I only know of one that was ranked 1 that routinely took on awakened beings on her own: Dust Eater.

And she almost bit the dust against a strong one, by herself.


Almost always an awakened being hunt consists of a single digit.

Originally posted by Q99
Miria pre-awakened phantom move was the level of a top-5, and she could handled the Twins when they not only didn't hold back but were using fully awakened mode. Her base states were well above their non-awakened levels before her phantom move.

I think your point was lost there, in the beginning. Rephrase.

But, if I were to guess what you're talking about, you're talking about her against the NEW twins.


Miria, at that point, was not only better than most single digits, she is better than most #1s. They all came back "from the North" with abilities similar to that (but not as strong as) Theresa: the ability to move very quickly, suppress their yoki, and read others.




After reading through the arguments and reading those chapters again, I am fairly certain of an 8 for Raki.

He has the speed, swords skills, and strength to outmatch almost all Claymore...minus most of the top 10 of any generation.

I don't know of anything to indicate he's on that level.

None of his fights have shown stats that high, aside from his lack of a special move.




Ophelia did, and she was #4. We saw her solo a former single digit, not even just a normal awakened. Per the databook, that one was stronger than the male that took on Miria/Clare/Deneve/Helen that first time.

Miria also said she could've beaten Hilda, awakened #6, solo if she wanted to.


Rafaela and Galatea were stronger than her.

Not a single top 5 during Clare's time couldn't solo single-digit Awakeneds, let alone most awakeneds.



Probably not, no. Hysteria was flat-out pwning her until she got the Awakened Phantom Move. She wasn't able to do anything at all to a top #1.

She was maybe low-#1 level.



8th is Flora level. Raki's shown nothing that'd indicate he could defend against a Windcutter type attack.

Originally posted by Q99
I don't know of anything to indicate he's on that level.

None of his fights have shown stats that high, aside from his lack of a special move.

That's not the question I asked, though.




Originally posted by Q99
Ophelia did, and she was #4. We saw her solo a former single digit, not even just a normal awakened. Per the databook, that one was stronger than the male that took on Miria/Clare/Deneve/Helen that first time.

Miria also said she could've beaten Hilda, awakened #6, solo if she wanted to.

To the first part...that was pre-"northern amped" for those four. 7 years later and those four are easily single digits. Additionally, the databook ranks are pretty much shit. And not just by a little: they are utter shit. Those databook ranks mean nothing when you have people like Clare doing decently against an awakened Ophelia. It's just stupid to see that when the rankings say that they have no chance in hell. To the point, however, Ophelia is never said to routinely hunt awakened beings, by herself. Only one was said to do that, regularly: however, I do remember it saying that ranks 1-5 are strong enough to take most on by themselves. Don't remember where I read that. So I concede that point.

And, I can see why Miria would say that: Hilda did not put up much of a fight. However, Miria definitely could not kill an awakened being, pre northern campaign, that was ranked in the top 10: the man-AB she fought was too strong for her and it wasn't a top 10.




Originally posted by Q99
Rafaela and Galatea were stronger than her.

Not a single top 5 during Clare's time couldn't solo single-digit Awakeneds, let alone most awakeneds.

I am not sure what you mean on that last part. Do you mean that not a single top 5 COULD single a top single digit awakened being?

Of that, I would mostly agree. However, it really depends on the AB. A top 5 AB probably could not be taken down by any of Clare's generation (minus the twins). I find no example of this occurring. It would take a party to do this. Think about Dauf and Rigaldo.

Also, there's many more examples of hunting parties being used than not:

http://claymore.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Awakened_Being_Hunting_Party

There's a list of all the hunting parties used against ABs.








Originally posted by Q99
Probably not, no. Hysteria was flat-out pwning her until she got the Awakened Phantom Move. She wasn't able to do anything at all to a top #1.

She was maybe low-#1 level.

No, she definitely was. It's not really something I consider debatable. Miria is easily a mid-range #1 by the time she takes on the Organization. If not higher.

She, of course, would have difficulty against the strongest former #1s, no doubt. I am not saying she's the strongest. She did better against one of the strongest #1s than all four of the hunting party did against Theresa (teehee) so that should indicate how much better she is than most #1s. Miria is definitely a #1 of any generation (how she is now) than all but the strongest 8.



Originally posted by Q99
8th is Flora level. Raki's shown nothing that'd indicate he could defend against a Windcutter type attack.

I disagree.

This is how I would rank Raki:

Yoki: E/NA
Agility: B
Muscular Strength: B
Spirit: A
Perception: B
Leadership: A


If you take the ranks as being an actual number....


(SSS being 1, SS 2, S 3, A 4, B 5, C 6, D 7, E 8)

Then you can arrive at his overall ranking.

8+5+5+4+5+4 = 31

Guess what Flora's total comes to? You guessed it: 31.


I promise, that was just a coincidence. But that at least shows how consistent I am being.

To be honest, Raki's perception may be an A due to his keen observations while with Priscilla, when shit was hitting the fan. That ties into his leadership, as well. His leadership is easily A...and may be his strongest point. He's much stronger than the humans around him stronger than many Claymore. His speed is enough to impress the soon-to-be #1s. And his perception is superb enough to rival most Claymore.

Did you overlook how the Clare ranking is before she half-awakened and before she gained Yoki reading, let alone Quicksword?

That's utter, utter newbie Clare they statted, the one who almost died to a single non-awakened Yoma in Rabona. She got three major upgrades during that period (and Ophelia's human side was actively trying to help Clare and literally just seeing if Clare could chop her up before tiring rather than fighting back. Ophelia's highest stat, agility, went unused).




Raki's got no Yoki perception at all remember, so put that at NA as well. Agility? He doesn't have any high speed feats and no speed special abilities, put a D there. Muscle, that's his best physical area and the one one he has real feats in, maybe C. Spirit, he has a lot of will but unlike a Claymore that doesn't grant him any special advantages (like being able to control partial-awakenings), so it doesn't matter too much to his actual combat ability. Leadership, well we've yet to actually seen him lead anyone, but at least that's plausible, he has a good tactical head. Personally I'd put him at B, Flora and Galatea's level, simply because the As have more experience.


Don't forget, every Claymore stat represents superhuman ability even at low levels. Agility B? That is Galatea level agility, #3.

B agility, or any B, is tremendously high, mostly for experienced Claymore. C is very significantly superhuman.

E means you can swing around a giant sword one-handed and leap about on rooftops. Raki can do the former fine but he hasn't even done the later.


And against any Claymore foe, he has the advantage that he has no yoki to sense and thus gets underestimated. He thus should perform better than his simple physical stats show.

Originally posted by Q99
Did you overlook how the Clare ranking is before she half-awakened and before she gained Yoki reading, let alone Quicksword?

That's utter, utter newbie Clare they statted, the one who almost died to a single non-awakened Yoma in Rabona. She got three major upgrades during that period (and Ophelia's human side was actively trying to help Clare and literally just seeing if Clare could chop her up before tiring rather than fighting back. Ophelia's highest stat, agility, went unused).

I don't feel your post actually addressed what I said, at all.

Here are her ranks as she fought an awakened Ophelia:

youma energy E
Agility : E
Muscular strength : E
Spirit : D
Perception : C+
Leadership : E



She still has crap stats. Yet, she possess, at this point, enough power to fight against awakened beings as we see her clearly do in the Northern Campaign. Ergo, the stats are crap and make no sense.




Originally posted by Q99
Raki's got no Yoki perception at all remember, so put that at NA as well.


I disagree. You do not have to be able to have the ESP perception of Yoki in order to make determinations about Yoki...and perceive Youma. His perception is so keen that he is ahead of most Claymore. In his case, his perception is a familarity with Youma, habits, and quickly analyzing their behaviors.

Originally posted by Q99
Agility? He doesn't have any high speed feats and no speed special abilities, put a D there.

I disagree. His sword skills more than proved his agility was on par with any B we have seen.

Originally posted by Q99
Muscle, that's his best physical area and the one one he has real feats in, maybe C.

I was thinking about bumping it up to A, actually, not dropping it down.

Originally posted by Q99
Spirit, he has a lot of will but unlike a Claymore that doesn't grant him any special advantages (like being able to control partial-awakenings), so it doesn't matter too much to his actual combat ability.

But that does not work to dismiss the actual ranking.


Originally posted by Q99
Leadership, well we've yet to actually seen him lead anyone, but at least that's plausible, he has a good tactical head..

Except leading the cause against the organization (inside) after he was released from his cell, of course...and then his speeches. Obviously, he is a superb Leader. Maybe not on part with Miria, but certainly better than pretty much any other Claymore: claymore's a sh*t leaders for the most part.



Originally posted by Q99
Personally I'd put him at B, Flora and Galatea's level, simply because the As have more experience.

And Raki certainly has more experience with Awakened beings than most Claymore. On top of that, he appears to lead quite naturally. I may consider putting him at A+ if we get to see more of his leading at the organization.


Originally posted by Q99
Don't forget, every Claymore stat represents superhuman ability even at low levels. Agility B? That is Galatea level agility, #3.

That's incorrect, actually.

Agility: nope. We can see that, clearly, humans can do well there....better than many Claymore.


Perception: it is quite obvious that perception does not necessarily require the ESP version of it (i.e. Theresa's version of perception).

Leadership: This one is obvious.

Spirit: This one is also obvious.

Musclar Strength: Possibly this one is mostly superhuman. However, Raki appears to make multiple organization soliders look like chumps...but so does Guts in Berserk. So this is more like "Superhuman to most humans...except other humans that appear to be superhuman". It's all relative.

Yoki: This one is the only area that is truly unreachable by a plain human.



So based on those areas, there's really only one area that is truly unreachable by a human.

Originally posted by Q99
B agility, or any B, is tremendously high, mostly for experienced Claymore. C is very significantly superhuman.

I would say that A is tremendously high and B is high. C would be average for Claymore (#22, to be exact. )


Raki can definitely go toe-to-toe with Claymore that have a B in agility.

Originally posted by Q99
E means you can swing around a giant sword one-handed and leap about on rooftops. Raki can do the former fine but he hasn't even done the later.

Agility does not necessarily mean only moving with your feet. However, he has done some quick footwork, as well.


Originally posted by Q99
And against any Claymore foe, he has the advantage that he has no yoki to sense and thus gets underestimated. He thus should perform better than his simple physical stats show.

That's not really accurate: the perception of Yoki for use in combat is very limited to people like Clare and Theresa. The rest just use it to perceive Youma or other Claymore being about...something Raki appears to do quite well...minus using ESP to do so (his would be better, btw). So, no, very few would be at a disadvantage against Raki specifically because of his missing yoki energy: hardly any use it in battle and that's almost an exclusive Theresa/Clare ability.


If I see some more from Raki in Leadership, agility, and detecting Youma, I may bump him up by as much as 3 points. I looked forward to seeing more from Raki.

Edit - Just read some other forums about Raki. Many theorize that he was able to sense the Youma so well due to someting that Isley did to him. They also posit that Raki is a new breed of Claymore that Isley invented or something...

They came up with this to explain how he could keep up with (while saying he was holding back) against the Organization's new "twins".

That, or the more obvious, "Claymore are conditioned to hold back against humans and we know very well they weren't fighting seriously like they were against Miria."



Bzzt, wrong, like I just explained.

Those are her starting stats, from the databook before Ophelia and such were even introduced, before Miria & co got any stats either. They're stats that reflect her initial form, in other words.

That's before half-awakening at Rabona, before she learned the yoki-dodge trick in the awakened fight, and definitely before gaining Quicksword.




Which'd be dumb, the As mostly are people with specific muscle powers and feats far far beyond his. He breaks wooden swords and pushes back young girls in mid-air. A-levels slice through stone and high-end awakened beings. Teresa's an A and she ripped a part off an awakened bare handed.



He's never fought them in awakened form, though. Having sword-drills with Isley is not at all the same thing.

And you just seem to fling out high numbers at the drop of a hat.



No, we really don't. Beginner Clare is way more agile than some exceptional humans. All Claymore can leap multiple stories and all that like even Raki never has.



And I'll note that precisely every Claymore (except for maybe Clarice) can do this too.




Few have it to that precise extent, but all can sense yoki somewhat, use it to judge people's strength and general location, and all that.




Your stats are already silly high-end and generous.


If he does extremely well, a lot more than he's shown, he may justify stats close to the ones you've shown.

Originally posted by Q99
That, or the more obvious, "Claymore are conditioned to hold back against humans and we know very well they weren't fighting seriously like they were against Miria."

Except, of course, during a mutiny when they are fighting back against the organization which appears to be largely comprised of humans. That situation just happens to have occured from the time frame I am referencing.


Awwwwwwwwww sheeeeeeiiiiiiiit!


And Miria, who made 3 and 5 seem like chumps, is being consoled by Rubul for her inability to compete with the twins (up and coming #1s...maybe not quite #1's yet).

http://www.mangareader.net/485-56369-22/claymore/chapter-106.html


Granted, it was due to her not being able to compete with those two in combination of #10s ability.

Originally posted by Q99
Bzzt, wrong, like I just explained.

Those are her starting stats, from the databook before Ophelia and such were even introduced, before Miria & co got any stats either. They're stats that reflect her initial form, in other words.

That's before half-awakening at Rabona, before she learned the yoki-dodge trick in the awakened fight, and definitely before gaining Quicksword.

Bzzzt, wrong. Those are her stats from Databook 2. Databook 2 lists her quicksword ability under those stats. I promise, I did not intend that to be a trap...but I thought, before posting that, that it would appear as a trap. However, I counted on your knowing about the second databook information and figured that you would not see it "as a trap".




Originally posted by Q99
Which'd be dumb, the As mostly are people with specific muscle powers and feats far far beyond his. He breaks wooden swords and pushes back young girls in mid-air. A-levels slice through stone and high-end awakened beings. Teresa's an A and she ripped a part off an awakened bare handed.

I appreciate you telling me that I'm saying dumb things.

However, you are incorrectly assuming that I don't already believe Raki possess the ability to do that.

The swords are obviously made of a very special material. If you have a sharp enough blade...and it's durable, a small child can slice through a rock like it was nothing. Ever heard of "graphene blades"? It's future-science...but not fantasy. Raki appears to have superhuman strength, by our measures. By in universe measures, he's just a very high-end human.



Originally posted by Q99
He's never fought them in awakened form, though. Having sword-drills with Isley is not at all the same thing.

I guess you forgot about the whole explosion of the parasitic rods which gave Claymore, who could take on awakened beings, trouble.



http://www.mangareader.net/485-31125-6/claymore/chapter-95.html

Clare, at this point, is among the strongest Claymore out there...yet, she's having trouble.


Originally posted by Q99
And you just seem to fling out high numbers at the drop of a hat.

I was thinking you are limiting him, mad crazy, on non sequitur whims.



Originally posted by Q99
No, we really don't. Beginner Clare is way more agile than some exceptional humans. All Claymore can leap multiple stories and all that like even Raki never has.

I guess you forgot the part where Clare was chased down by two humans towards the beginning of the series? "All-that" jumping.

It was Clare's superior tactics and training that won her the day.


Also, Raki has this beautiful dodging feat:

http://www.mangareader.net/claymore/115


A point blank dodge of an attack from the up-and-coming Abyssal destroyers.


And then there's this, too:

http://www.mangareader.net/claymore/115/2


And here he is jumping several feat in the air...about the 2 story jumps you were raving about (not to mention, he went from on the ground looking up, to well above her head in just one panel...almost on par with the virtual "flash stepping" we see from the "Northern Warriors":

http://www.mangareader.net/claymore/115/3




Let's not forget that he's still recovering from injuries withOUT regeneration abilities.



And here he is taking on awakened being (much closer to abyssal level than low-level AB, not doubt) strikes with ease. Now...where have we seen this type of resistance to speedy attacks?


That's right: Riful and her many ribbons against the Northern Warriors.




Oh...and "hi to you" uber agility:

http://www.mangareader.net/claymore/115/6







And finally, let's not ignore that...they acknowledge that Raki is on level with their sword skills:


http://www.mangareader.net/claymore/115/9





Then let's look at the final nail in the coffin against Raki's abilities:

http://www.mangareader.net/claymore/115/19

So, Raki is enough of a warrior to take over the duty of both of the twins. Both twins were alternating awakening to take on the organization as seen here:

http://www.mangareader.net/claymore/114/10




So Raki is enough, alone, to replace the twins.

If you want another agility feat: here he is crossing a significantly long distance in such a speed as to prevent the human warrior from even having time to respond:

http://www.mangareader.net/claymore/115/22

http://www.mangareader.net/claymore/115/23




Lastly, I would like to say I was wrong about Raftela having to face 2-3 times as many Organization soliders when she admitted to siding with Miria...she faced about the same as Raki did (Raki faced a few more).

She didn't even have a chance to respond. So, like you stated, Raki is at an advantage because he is not relying on Youki sensing to react to the enemy: he is using his sword skills, strength, and agility. So I will concede that point. I also concede the Raki is missing a special move that only Youki power could grant him. This is why I cannot put him at a level any higher than 5 without further feats. A rank 8 is reasonible, at this point...he makes most Claymore lookl like chumps but would easily fall to probably all each generation's top 4 or 5. The twins said he smells different from the other humans. (Aura?) So I guess, in the end, the speculators are right: Raki probably has something done to his body. That would explain his superhuman agility, strength, and speed.



Originally posted by Q99
And I'll note that precisely every Claymore (except for maybe Clarice) can do this too.

I guess you forgot about the part where those pesky "humans" surrounded and impaled Raftela? If it were so easy for a Claymore to take on humans in numbers, then it could be done. Granted, she was impaled by 2-3 times as many humans that took on Raki...but the organization obviously thought that was enough to stop a rebelling Claymore ranked #10.


I'll also note that Dauf, despite his speed, is not able to keep up with Renee (#6)...despite his speed being S.






Originally posted by Q99
Your stats are already silly high-end and generous.


If he does extremely well, a lot more than he's shown, he may justify stats close to the ones you've shown.

They range from conservative to correct, actually.

Additionally, it would appear you can sense Youki as a human:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-43815-16/claymore/chapter-99.html

Clare says she remembers the youki of Priscilla as a child. She wasn't a "warrior" yet.







Another note, I would like to add to my suggestion that Clare is definitely at the level of a #1 by this point:

http://www.mangareader.net/485-46701-7/claymore/chapter-100.html

She was able to dodge Priscilla's attack. Priscilla, at this point, made short work of the Twins.

Last chapter was decent. Still better than the "big 3".

I am really glad to see the other "guys" show up, finally.


Do you think it is possible for 5-8 of the really good "former" claymore to take on an abyssal one? Not just an abyssal one, but an abyssal one made from some of the strongest #1s in the history of the organization.

Awww....the zombie Claymore aren't hot anymore

Nonetheless this was a pretty good chapter. Though Helen does look kind of masculine to me. It was also cool to see Raki again as well.

I don' think these guys will be enough. I mean not only are these some of the best no. 1 in history but they're also super charged with Priscilla's Yoki.

Priscilla's arm was used to revive them: it does not super power them.


Also, it was an arm from a Priscilla who had been starving for 7 years.

Oh...I though Dae said it did something for them other than keep them alive.

Well Priscilla did kill some Abyssal Ones and resisted the Destroyer while being starved. Which makes me wonder why she didn't eat Raki.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Oh...I though Dae said it did something for them other than keep them alive.

Well Priscilla did kill some Abyssal Ones and resisted the Destroyer while being starved. Which makes me wonder why she didn't eat Raki.

She didn't eat Raki because she needed him alive to find the source of that "smell" that lingered on his person.

She kept him alive, afterwards, because he cared for her and watched over her those 7 years. She gave him a parting gift (he remarkably was able to resist those spike thingies for quite a while until Priscilla put her arm in his back...which means Raki's persistance/will-power is beyond anything we have seen from any Claymore as it almost instantly took other Claymores over. I mention this because people have pointed out on other forums that Raki may have had something done to him. That would explain his obviously superhuman agility, strength, and speed. I wonder what Isley did to him. If nothing was done, how the hell can he do all of this things? PIS?).

Priscilla did feed on stuff, however. I am not sure if she fed on the temporary "awakened being" rods or what. But she definitely fed on Beth. After feeding on Beth, she really did start to make everyone look like a punk b*tch.

I get why she didn't eat him during the 7 year skip but you'd think that Raki would be the first thing Priscilla would try to chomp on after trailing Clare's scent.

But didn't Priscilla kill Alicia first before feeding on Beth. I mean she was pwning things and was only a shell of her former self.

It probably was PIS as to how Raki was able to resist the spikes prior to Priscilla's arm being put in him. I mean even Beth and Dauf were affected by them.

Beth was impaled by a big one while in human form, Dauf got his on purpose. Raki only got a small one in the shoulder for a short time, and they do take a little time to get going.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I get why she didn't eat him during the 7 year skip but you'd think that Raki would be the first thing Priscilla would try to chomp on after trailing Clare's scent.

No because of this:

She didn't eat Raki because she needed him alive to find the source of that "smell" that lingered on his person.

She kept him alive, afterwards, because he cared for her and watched over her those 7 years.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
But didn't Priscilla kill Alicia first before feeding on Beth. I mean she was pwning things and was only a shell of her former self.

No, she fed on Beth, first. Drank her blood. Then they both awakened and teamed up against Priscilla.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
It probably was PIS as to how Raki was able to resist the spikes prior to Priscilla's arm being put in him. I mean even Beth and Dauf were affected by them.

Of all the humans, Raki was the only one we saw stabbed by them. We could assume that humans are not as influenced by them to explain why he was able to resist as long as he did.

Then there's the other theory which seems more plausible: Isley did something to Raki which would explain Raki's super human abilities.


Originally posted by Q99
Beth was impaled by a big one while in human form, Dauf got his on purpose. Raki only got a small one in the shoulder for a short time, and they do take a little time to get going.

We don't know if Dauf got his on purpose. Priscilla only asked herself if he got impaled on purpose but we never found out for sure. Considering he was practically immobile, we would be safer betting on him not getting impaled on purpose: how could he do it on purpose?

They do take a little time to get going: "little" is the key word. They take very little. More than enough time for Raki to be taken over while he and Priscilla had their conversation before Priscilla decided to give him her forearm.

New Claymore chapter is out and the other 5 Ghosts are backing Miria up.

Damn wonder when Clare's going to get out of that cocoon thing.

It was okay until the new "Abyssal One" started to WTF PWN everyone. I don't like those types of odds. I don't want it to be hopeless like that and then have everyone survive when they shouldn't.

Well there was already a massacre of fodder before, perhaps we can see that again. Besides if Miria could barely take Hysteria on pre awakened then how do they expect to beat her post awakening.

BTW Hysteria's new walking statue status form is kind of stupid IMHO. In fact these new awakenings are kind of lackluster in general barring perhaps Roxanne's.

I skipped to the last page of this thread, and was wondering how you guys know so much about what has happened. I've only seen the 1st season on Netflix and it was amazing, now i'm searching for season 2. You guys reading something or is there a season 2?

Yeah...the manga has gone far beyond the Northern War but I'll try my best not to spoil it. I'm still pissed that the anime ended like that. Shit Madhouse couldn't just wait for more material?

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka

BTW Hysteria's new walking statue status form is kind of stupid IMHO. In fact these new awakenings are kind of lackluster in general barring perhaps Roxanne's.

I dunno, I like Cassandra's.

Where's my new Claymore damnit? It's been over a month since I've gotten my female "Berserk" fill of manga. This makes me sad

Hooray!! New Female Berse.....er....Claymore is out. Damn Deneve ruining what could've been another badass momment from Miria.

Apparently giant monster fights are a big thing for this manga season.

Yep.

You know, even with Miria's plan, I can't help but feel that Clare will be needed to handle this problem.

Originally posted by Q99
Yep.

You know, even with Miria's plan, I can't help but feel that Clare will be needed to handle this problem.


Agreed.

Someone said she's resting. Does that mean...they freed her?



Also, I think this current stuff keeps lasting. I don't like how it keeps lasting like this.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Agreed.

Someone said she's resting. Does that mean...they freed her?



Also, I think this current stuff keeps lasting. I don't like how it keeps lasting like this.

Well even if they do need Clare it would still be weird for her to show up out the blue.

It would be even weirder explaining how Clare got out the freaky threesome without releasing Priscilla. Unless of course Priscilla is freed

Decent chapter. Played out how we would have expected it. Wonder what comes after this? While she just kill the other two abyssal ones like they are nothing just to shock us again (turning this into Bleach) or will a plan finally work for once?

Well I didn't see the new set of arms coming even though I though it was kind of dumb for Hysteria to not regain her arms.

As for this Clash of the Zombie Abyssals...I though the off-panel fight between Isley and Luciela had a more exciting aura IMO.

Still waiting for Raki to make another appearance.

Nice to see Roxanne finally show her abyssal power.

And yea, Isley and Luciela had more of a feeling of majesty to them. While the zombie Abyssals are continuing their grudges from life. Awakening just brought their monstrous sides forward.

Well the new Claymore chapter is out folks.

The "Clash of the Zombie Claymore" is finally over and it appears Miria's plan actually worked. Cassandra was also able to one-up Roxanne and got a meal in the process. Hysteria was apparently the No.1 of Teresa and Rosemary's generation prior to Rosemary being promoted of course.

The highlights were seeing Raki again and Priscilla getting an incarnation from Hysteria's remains.

Teresa- still a badass! I wonder if Rosemary got promoted in part because of her victory there.

Hysteria really didn't last long once hit. The impalement probably wasn't too bad, but then Cassandra's mouth...

Cassandra winning was just about the best possible result they could've hoped for. Actually dealing with Cassandra would be difficult and high-casualty, but she doesn't seem to be the sort to look for trouble.

Roxanne probably would've wanted to make herself a large territory, and Hysteria would've been pretty unstoppable without just the right Claymore.

I do wonder what Cassandra palns to do now. I mean the Organization is all but ruined and she's now an Abyssal One.

Well the crew now has to worry about what will happen with the Priscilla incarnation/re-awakening, unless of course that was just an image created from Hysteria dying.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I do wonder what Cassandra palns to do now. I mean the Organization is all but ruined and she's now an Abyssal One.

The Abyssal One, really.






It does seem like Prissy being involved, youki image or something. Probably not re-awake quite yet, but...

So, Theresa took out a #1 when she was a high level single digit, eh?


That fact that she stood off in the distance smiling like a b*tch tells me that she knew she had delivered the crippling blow and did not need to do anymore. That's some cold-calculating precision. That also tells me what I had suspected: Theresa was one of the strongest #1s if not the strongest one.

Not on her own, but yes.

I think this means she started her habit of hiding her true power already by that point, since we know Rosemary, 4, got promoted to #1 before she did.


While still not yet #1 herself she hit someone faster than Miria (until Miria's awakened phantom at least).



Oh heck yea

Well Teresa inflicting the critical blow on Hysteria makes me all the more mad not being able to see her awakened.

Do wonder where the author is going to take this story next. I mean there's only one Abyssal One, the organizations ruined, and unless Priscilla develops into something more than just an overpowered freak of nature, I'm clueless.

So....would Miria be a Low/mid tier no#1 or a high tier #2 assuming that she was still part of the organization? I think she's a bit over the no#3 range but that's just me.

Priscilla is already such a being. A Starved Priscilla was able to take out two Abyssal level (the twin #1s) claymore at once. In fact, the twins were designed to take out the abyssal ones and she took them both on.

We also got proof in this last chapter that Priscilla is indeed beyond Abyssal level.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Priscilla is already such a being. A Starved Priscilla was able to take out two Abyssal level (the twin #1s) claymore at once. In fact, the twins were designed to take out the abyssal ones and she took them both on.

We also got proof in this last chapter that Priscilla is indeed beyond Abyssal level.

I was talking more about villain direction more than power. I mean Priscilla making everyone her ***** is well and good but due to her rather limited goals, she seems only to want to kill Teresa twice, I'm not seeing much progression for her.

I mean I'm not even sure who's the next big villain is going to be. I mean the "Destroyer" doesn't appear to be returning and Cassandra seems rather content on being left alone.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I mean I'm not even sure who's the next big villain is going to be. I mean the "Destroyer" doesn't appear to be returning and Cassandra seems rather content on being left alone.

Priscilla is still the big villain. She manifested herself via the dying youki of Roxanne, remember? She is still alive and her consciousness is still intact. We know shit is about to hit the fan and they all plan to release Clare.

By releasing Clare, they will release the stupid tower thingie and Priscilla.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Priscilla is still the big villain. She manifested herself via the dying youki of Roxanne, remember? She is still alive and her consciousness is still intact. We know shit is about to hit the fan and they all plan to release Clare.

By releasing Clare, they will release the stupid tower thingie and Priscilla.

Well even though I wouldn't mind seeing the Destroyer again, the ghosts have no way to deal with it and now Abyssal Ones to distract it unless Priscilla fights it first.

Im more concerned about Priscilla's grand finale since I can't find the right words to describe her right now. As is all she wants to do is kill Clare and eat people. Kind of small scale mind set for someone as powerful as Priscilla

Oh...and it was Hysteria dying that created the image.