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Sabertooth

Your an interesting fellow Bruce, you know that?

nice pic of IF ermmnone

Didn't IF beat him in Sabes first appearance?

Originally posted by Mr Majestic
Your an interesting fellow Bruce, you know that? what do you mean?

Originally posted by masterbruce
what do you mean? You know what I mean.

Originally posted by Mr Majestic
You know what I mean. um I have no idea, so please do tell what you mean.

Originally posted by Priest
what ever do u mean? ermmha oh nothing nothing.





ermmlaugh

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Didn't IF beat him in Sabes first appearance?


Actually...

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/Sabertooth1/

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth2/

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth3/

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Oh yeah herb herbermm

Originally posted by masterbruce
thanks, i thought so too
oh did u? jr_erm02

Originally posted by Priest
oh did u? jr_erm02

What a horrific Frankenstein's monster of a smiley.

Originally posted by Soljer
Actually...

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/Sabertooth1/

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth2/

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth3/ Awfome!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What a horrific Frankenstein's monster of a smiley.
well i want to take it out for a spin haeyes

Originally posted by Priest
well i want to take it out for a spin haeyes

guitarcat Sounds good.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
guitarcat Sounds good.
now thats quite disturbing. trippy

It's funny none of those scans go on to the next bit where Iron Fist wins.

Originally posted by Zebedee
It's funny none of those scans go on to the next bit where Iron Fist wins. He gave links to three different fights.

All of them have IF KO'ing Sabes.

were does it show saberooth being KOed in all three fights............

becuase I know for a fact he was not KOed in the last fight

Originally posted by Soljer
Actually...

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/Sabertooth1/

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth2/

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth3/

ya and if you look sabertooth is never shown being KOed.............in there last fight which is the only one in which sabertooth was written with a healing factor...........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
ya and if you look sabertooth is never shown being KOed.............in there last fight which is the only one in which sabertooth was written with a healing factor........... However, he was beat up, hit into an electricity thing, everyone walked away, and then the full moon turned into 3/4's of the moon, and Sabertooth punched out.

People don't always have to be shown out, to figure it out.

I have done this thread before...

The problem with the last fight is:

1. Sabretooth was holding back in the fight, it could have been argued that Sabretooth could have killed him easily.

2. It could then be argued that even if Sabretooth was trying his best IF didnt have his Iron Fist and could have still beaten him.

3. It could be argued that that despite the fcat that IF didnt have his Iron Fist he still beat him.

4. The last point to be made is that Iron Fist was helped partially by the envinronment. On this forum there is no electrical conduit to help him.

I dont think we could really use the other fights as evidence that IF can beat Sabretooth because Sabretooth was not upgraded then.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The problem with the last fight is:

1. Sabretooth was holding back in the fight, it could have been argued that Sabretooth could have killed him easily.

2. It could then be argued that even if Sabretooth was trying his best IF didnt have his Iron Fist and could have still beaten him.

3. It could be argued that that despite the fcat that IF didnt have his Iron Fist he still beat him.

4. The last point to be made is that Iron Fist was helped partially by the envinronment. On this forum there is no electrical conduit to help him.

I dont think we could really use the other fights as evidence that IF can beat Sabretooth because Sabretooth was not upgraded then.

Luckily, my friend, you've made a name for yourself - especially in street threads.

And none of the regulars really take your opinion seriously. .

Originally posted by Soljer
Luckily, my friend, you've made a name for yourself - especially in street threads.

And none of the regulars really take your opinion seriously. .

What on earth are you talking about now? Who doesnt take my opinion serioulsy. Creshock , Jinzin and you....yeah and ? Stop chatting rubbish. Oh yeah Capt it up. Just by-pass evreything I said...gezzz.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth2/03.jpg

Looks like a KO to me.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/Sabertooth1/Iron_Fist_14-22.jpg

This too.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What on earth are you talking about now? Who doesnt take my opinion serioulsy. Creshock , Jinzin and you....yeah and ? Stop chatting rubbish. Oh yeah Capt it up. Just by-pass evreything I said...gezzz.

Creshok, Jinzin, Myself, and..

Oh, yeah...

Pretty much anyone who knows what they're talking about and have seen you post on more than two occasions.

doped.

Off to class, now. Two exams today, and I haven't cracked a book. Wish me luck, guys.

Originally posted by Soljer
Creshok, Jinzin, Myself, and..

Oh, yeah...

Pretty much anyone who knows what they're talking about and have seen you post on more than two occasions.

doped.

Off to class, now. Two exams today, and I haven't cracked a book. Wish me luck, guys.

Jinzin doesn't take Alfheim seriously?

Wow, I bet you hurt him now.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The problem with the last fight is:

1. Sabretooth was holding back in the fight, it could have been argued that Sabretooth could have killed him easily.

2. It could then be argued that even if Sabretooth was trying his best IF didnt have his Iron Fist and could have still beaten him.

3. It could be argued that that despite the fcat that IF didnt have his Iron Fist he still beat him.

4. The last point to be made is that Iron Fist was helped partially by the envinronment. On this forum there is no electrical conduit to help him.

I dont think we could really use the other fights as evidence that IF can beat Sabretooth because Sabretooth was not upgraded then.
soljer is correct, but honestly this was a well thought out post.

Originally posted by llagrok
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth2/03.jpg

Looks like a KO to me.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/Sabertooth1/Iron_Fist_14-22.jpg

This too.
both written while sabertooth was a IF villain.

He did not even have a healing factor.............l

Originally posted by Alfheim
The problem with the last fight is:

1. Sabretooth was holding back in the fight, it could have been argued that Sabretooth could have killed him easily.

2. It could then be argued that even if Sabretooth was trying his best IF didnt have his Iron Fist and could have still beaten him.

3. It could be argued that that despite the fcat that IF didnt have his Iron Fist he still beat him.

4. The last point to be made is that Iron Fist was helped partially by the envinronment. On this forum there is no electrical conduit to help him.

I dont think we could really use the other fights as evidence that IF can beat Sabretooth because Sabretooth was not upgraded then.

Okay, so we're only going to allow feats and scans from fights where both opponents fought eachother in an arena?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
both written while sabertooth was a IF villain.

He did not even have a healing factor.............l

And he got his ass kicked!

Originally posted by llagrok
Okay, so we're only going to allow feats and scans from fights where both opponents fought eachother in an arena?



And he got his ass kicked!

to bad sabertooth is nothing like the sabertooth IF fought............there completely different characters.

IF sabertooth was many tiems weaker then the one that became Logans villain.


so using feats of IF beating sabertotoh prior to his character change is pointless...........

Originally posted by Soljer
Creshok, Jinzin, Myself, and..

What Wolverine fanboys?


Originally posted by Soljer

Oh, yeah...

Pretty much anyone who knows what they're talking about and have seen you post on more than two occasions.

doped.

Off to class, now. Two exams today, and I haven't cracked a book. Wish me luck, guys.

The fcat that Battlehammer said that it was a well thought out post shows you how full of **** you are.

It was a well thought out post but then you decided to somehow show how stupid I am....WTF.

Wolverineitis in effect.

Originally posted by llagrok
Okay, so we're only going to allow feats and scans from fights where both opponents fought eachother in an arena?




My point is that there is alot of grey areas in their last fight.

There are grey areas in every fight.

Originally posted by llagrok
There are grey areas in every fight.

All im saying is that IF did not have all his powers. Sabretooth was holding back alot in that fight and there is no electrical conduit. All im saying is when refering to that fight these are the factors that need to be considered. Are you saying these points are irrelevant? Whats the problem?

I dunno man im sensing hostility.

Originally posted by Alfheim


The fcat that Battlehammer said that it was a well thought out post shows you how full of **** you are.


He also said I was absolutely correct. .

Originally posted by llagrok
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth2/03.jpg

Looks like a KO to me.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/Sabertooth1/Iron_Fist_14-22.jpg

This too.

Both against pre HF sabes..

Originally posted by llagrok
Jinzin doesn't take Alfheim seriously?

Wow, I bet you hurt him now.

So tell me, what do you do when your NOT obsessing over me?

Also note, I was merely quoting Alfheim himself on 'crehsok, myself, and Jinzin.'

Honestly, I repeat; pretty much ANY reasonable poster who knows what they're talking about, and has seen you post on more than an occasion or two?

They know you're full of shit.

lol.. agreed.

as to the fight.. both characters have had upgrades. IF's last fight with Sabes wasn't going too hot for Danny till the intervention of the plot device.. but I would still say I want to see what Danny can do NOW before initiating my judgement..

Originally posted by Soljer
Also note, I was merely quoting Alfheim himself on 'crehsok, myself, and Jinzin.'

Honestly, I repeat; pretty much ANY reasonable poster who knows what they're talking about, and has seen you post on more than an occasion or two?

They know you're full of shit.

Am I in the reasonable list?

Originally posted by jinzin
as to the fight.. both characters have had upgrades. IF's last fight with Sabes wasn't going too hot for Danny till the intervention of the plot device.. but I would still say I want to see what Danny can do NOW before initiating my judgement..

Surely you must realize that in their last fight, where he DIDN'T look so hot (but still won) Iron Fist had never really been further off his game.

Not saying who I think would win.

Just pointing out that in their last fight, Danny was ridiculously 'rusty' and less powerful than he'd ever been up to that point.

Currently, however, he is MORE skilled and MORE powerful than he's ever been.

Just something to take into account.

EDIT: For example, look at scan 05 and 06. Not only is his chi completely out of line (he can't call upon the Iron Fist), but he acknowledged that he's fighting like a complete amateur. "This is some of the worst fighting I've ever done."

I believe it was earlier in that particular issue where Danny noted that being on a team for so long had made him rusty, made his skills unfocused. His poor showing against Sabretooth seemed to be, very much, attributed to that fact.

Oh yes, I know that he was having major issues unifying his body and chi. If anything I think it kinda proves that Sabretooth IS superhuman since IF couldn't really keep up with him.

Though I do think that part of his poor performance was that his focus was in some pretty bad shape after Sabretooth scored that first claw shot on him.

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh yes, I know that he was having major issues unifying his body and chi. If anything I think it kinda proves that Sabretooth IS superhuman since IF couldn't really keep up with him.


If anything, I think it kinda proves that if Sabretooth IS superhuman, he is barely so, since Iron Fist was still keeping up with him (and won) even though he couldn't chi amp, couldn't use the Iron Fist, and was fighting like a moron.

.

Originally posted by jinzin

Though I do think that part of his poor performance was that his focus was in some pretty bad shape after Sabretooth scored that first claw shot on him.

If that issue was during the 'arc' I recall, it wasn't Sabretooth in particular whom he lacked focus with. As I mentioned, his time with a 'team' had totally ruined him; that arc dealt with him fighting without focus no matter his opponent.


BUT:

Regardless of that, with CURRENT Danny, he won't be fighting without focus, he won't be fighting without chi amp, and he won't be fighting without the Iron Fist.

He'll be leaps and bounds above the Iron Fist in those scans.

I don't really read it that way.. Sabretooth landed like what 4 to 7 shots before Danny was able to land one.. and the one he landed was one that sabretooth let him..

Danny "won" because his ass got lucky enough to have an electrical circuit box where Sabretooth landed and then ran as the place caved in.. Without the plot device, Sabretooth would have just got back up and continued to stomp him till he bled out or something..

Originally posted by jinzin
I don't really read it that way.. Sabretooth landed like what 4 to 7 shots before Danny was able to land one.. and the one he landed was one that sabretooth let him..

Danny "won" because his ass got lucky enough to have an electrical circuit box where Sabretooth landed and then ran as the place caved in.. Without the plot device, Sabretooth would have just got back up and continued to stomp him till he bled out or something..

Maybe, maybe not.

Probably? Sure.

But the fact of the matter is; Iron Fist has never been weaker than he was when he appeared in those scans.

How well or poorly he did in those scans is of next to no relevance to current Danny who, again, is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above any previous appearance.

the question is how will Danny defeat Creed given his insane HF?

Originally posted by Soljer
Maybe, maybe not.

Probably? Sure.

But the fact of the matter is; Iron Fist has never been weaker than he was when he appeared in those scans.

How well or poorly he did in those scans is of next to no relevance to current Danny who, again, is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above any previous appearance.

Weaker? I don't know about that.. he had problems with focus and his chi amping... but you're talking about him as if he were ill or injured.. He was just experiencing some pretty bad CIS.. something Sabes does on regular occasion.


Current Danny still needs conclusive proof as to such.. As far as I've been made aware things are fairly ambiguous at best with him right now.

Originally posted by jinzin
Weaker? I don't know about that.. he had problems with focus and his chi amping... but you're talking about him as if he were ill or injured.. He was just experiencing some pretty bad CIS.. something Sabes does on regular occasion.


Current Danny still needs conclusive proof as to such.. As far as I've been made aware things are fairly ambiguous at best with him right now.

Weaker? Absolutely.

He couldn't focus his chi. Without focusing his chi, his strength, speed, and durability are at below-peak human levels.

As far as current Danny....he's caught a bullet with his back turned, with absolutely no line of sight to the shooter, while poisoned.

He's learned dozens more killing techniques. His chi reservoir has more than doubled. If he's given even a moment free in the fight, he can close his eyes, meditate, and heal any wounds sustained without draining himself in the least. He can use the Iron Fist attack at range, he's learned ways of attacking with chi WITHOUT actually activating the Iron Fist itself, his senses have been heightened to the point where he can hear someone sweating....

Not to mention the fact that even classic Iron Fist could weave through bullets, bring down buildings with his Iron Fist, knock out the best of the best, beat someone who trained for centuries solely to fight him, was strong enough to punch through a solid steel girder WITHOUT using the Iron Fist, oh and he was capable of breaking out of the crimson bands of Cytorrak.

Not to mention, even with a healing factor now, Iron Fist's history with Creed hasn't been erased. He knows how Creed fights, and will be able to read him like a book.

And, as Creed's last few appearances were WITHOUT adamantium, a chi-enhanced strike, or (god-forbid) the Iron Fist itself would be capable of rending Creed in two.

Originally posted by Soljer
Weaker? Absolutely.

He couldn't focus his chi. Without focusing his chi, his strength, speed, and durability are at below-peak human levels.

Danny's not exactly helpless without his Chi amping, he still has plenty of feats without it. So I again, don't feel that "it's the weekest he's ever been" is a totally valid argument.. a bit of an exaggeration.


Originally posted by Soljer
As far as current Danny....he's caught a bullet with his back turned, with absolutely no line of sight to the shooter, while poisoned.

He's learned dozens more killing techniques. His chi reservoir has more than doubled. If he's given even a moment free in the fight, he can close his eyes, meditate, and heal any wounds sustained without draining himself in the least. He can use the Iron Fist attack at range, he's learned ways of attacking with chi WITHOUT actually activating the Iron Fist itself, his senses have been heightened to the point where he can hear someone sweating....

That's some pretty impressive stuff. Has he had many fights since? Has he done the healing trick?

Originally posted by Soljer
Not to mention the fact that even classic Iron Fist could weave through bullets, bring down buildings with his Iron Fist, knock out the best of the best, beat someone who trained for centuries solely to fight him, was strong enough to punch through a solid steel girder WITHOUT using the Iron Fist, oh and he was capable of breaking out of the crimson bands of Cytorrak.
indeed.

Originally posted by Soljer
Not to mention, even with a healing factor now, Iron Fist's history with Creed hasn't been erased. He knows how Creed fights, and will be able to read him like a book.
Meh, the first fight they had Sabretooth didn't even have fighting skills written has part of his character. The second fight wasn't much to draw any conclusions about. neither was their third encounter..
And their forth fight, Iron Fist got clobbered the whole way through. He doesn't "know" Sabretooth.. far from it.

Originally posted by Soljer
And, as Creed's last few appearances were WITHOUT adamantium, a chi-enhanced strike, or (god-forbid) the Iron Fist itself would be capable of rending Creed in two.

A bit of Wishful thinking on your part.

Sabretooth's muscles were so dense Warbird couldn't use a nerve pinch on him.
He took multiple shots from her, Rogue, and Killpower without suffering too much damage at all.. His AOA counterpart has been able to deal with shots from Holocaust and Maestro Hulk.
If what Mungi said was correct about his 4 part series, he was taking shots to the face from Sasquatch and standing up to them (in a flashback) before his adamantium.

Besides that, I find it highly unlikely seeing how Danny's already hit Sabretooth with the Iron Fist in Fanfare 6 and it barely phazed Sabretooth.

They had a fourth fight?

. Damnit.

lol, Don't worry. Like I said it was more of an "encounter" than a fight, Danny was distracted and Sabretooth basically ran through him and tossed him into a bookshelf.. It's only breifly talked about right before Luke heads off to challenge Sabretooth in their first fight.

Originally posted by jinzin
Danny's not exactly helpless without his Chi amping, he still has plenty of feats without it. So I again, don't feel that "it's the weekest he's ever been" is a totally valid argument.. a bit of an exaggeration.

It's hardly an exaggeration. Sure, he has some feats to his name without chi-amping. But without chi-amping, AND without his top-tier skills? Nah.
Originally posted by jinzin


That's some pretty impressive stuff. Has he had many fights since? Has he done the healing trick?
Many fights? Not really. Against hydra and against another immortal weapon.

Originally posted by jinzin

indeed.

Awww...

I wanted a LITTLE more response. At least to breaking out of the friggin crimson bands! . I thought that was a kick ass feat...

Originally posted by jinzin

Meh, the first fight they had Sabretooth didn't even have fighting skills written has part of his character. The second fight wasn't much to draw any conclusions about. neither was their third encounter..
And their forth fight, Iron Fist got clobbered the whole way through. He doesn't "know" Sabretooth.. far from it.
Regardless of whether he was WRITTEN with fighting skills or not, he was retconned into them. . The addition of them to his character doesn't change their past. Iron Fist has fought with sabretooth several times. They're familiar with each other by now.

Oh. And I wasn't aware they had a fourth fight - where?


Originally posted by jinzin

A bit of Wishful thinking on your part.

Sabretooth's muscles were so dense Warbird couldn't use a nerve pinch on him.
He took multiple shots from her, Rogue, and Killpower without suffering too much damage at all.. His AOA counterpart has been able to deal with shots from Holocaust and Maestro Hulk.
If what Mungi said was correct about his 4 part series, he was taking shots to the face from Sasquatch and standing up to them (in a flashback) before his adamantium.

Besides that, I find it highly unlikely seeing how Danny's already hit Sabretooth with the Iron Fist in Fanfare 6 and it barely phazed Sabretooth.

AoA? Meh to that. It's AoA. Might as well have me bring up Exiles Iron Fist punching a hole in Colossus....

Wolverine slices up Creed no problem, but could only score Colossus. Exiles Iron Fist punched a hole in him. .

But, like AoA, exiles doesn't matter much, hm? (And I'm well aware that Exiles Sabretooth is kinda ridiculous. I'm not actually trying to bring exiles into this. Just more non-canon stuff.)

I will admit that I underrate Sabretooth's durability a bit, but simply out of ignorance. I'm not too arrogant to admit when I don't know everything about a character.

But, acting like Danny Rand couldn't affect Sabretooth is ludicrous. He can knock around the top-bricks with it and destroy buildings, but can't phase sabretooth?

*Shrugs*

Again, I don't know quite a bit enough about sabretooth to give an accurate estimation on this fight. And I kind of doubt that you know enough about Danny to do the same.

However, we both seem more than happy to defend either character when challenged....

Originally posted by jinzin
lol, Don't worry. Like I said it was more of an "encounter" than a fight, Danny was distracted and Sabretooth basically ran through him and tossed him into a bookshelf.. It's only breifly talked about right before Luke heads off to challenge Sabretooth in their first fight.

Yay!

Jinzin gave me an excuse.

Now, then....
*ignores fourth fight*.

.

Originally posted by Soljer
It's hardly an exaggeration. Sure, he has some feats to his name without chi-amping. But without chi-amping, AND without his top-tier skills? Nah.
Impling he's helpess without chi amping is QUITE an exaggeration.. especially when he's staved off Luke without it.

And his fighting, it's questionable as to why he felt it was so bad.. once again the indications to his lack of focus due to tha pain that Sabretooth was already inflicting.. well...

Originally posted by Soljer
Many fights? Not really. Against hydra and against another immortal weapon.

That's sucks, judgement will then stay reserved.... for now.

Originally posted by Soljer
Awww...

I wanted a LITTLE more response. At least to breaking out of the friggin crimson bands! . I thought that was a kick ass feat...

lol, sorry, I know how impressive classic Iron Fist is/was it's not news to me.. hehe.


Originally posted by Soljer
Regardless of whether he was WRITTEN with fighting skills or not, he was retconned into them. .

Like I don't know that..

I think I didn't really adress my point very well..

Okay... either the first fight doesn't help because it wasn't against the characterization of Sabretooth we know today, OR it doesn't help because it shows that Danny couldn't even recognize that Sabretooth uses fighting skill... Either way it's a bad example to prove that he "knows" Sabes in the fighting department.

Originally posted by Soljer
The addition of them to his character doesn't change their past. Iron Fist has fought with sabretooth several times. They're familiar with each other by now.

Familiar sure.. familiar to a point where you can make the claim that Iron Fist knows how Sabretooth fights? nu-uh..

Originally posted by Soljer
AoA? Meh to that. It's AoA. Might as well have me bring up Exiles Iron Fist punching a hole in Colossus....
There might be validity to that, IF has beaten Colossus in CoC II afterall.
In anycase it's just one basic example of many to illustrate a point.

Originally posted by Soljer
Wolverine slices up Creed no problem, but could only score Colossus. Exiles Iron Fist punched a hole in him. .

So what? We don't know that that's all Wolverine can do to Colossus..
I mean Colossus seems to be under the impression that Wolverine can cut him to the bone.

Wolverine's "scored" Punisher and Daredevil in the exact same fashion.. just because he didn't cleave Peter in two doesn't mean that he absolutely can't..

Originally posted by Soljer
But, like AoA, exiles doesn't matter much, hm? (And I'm well aware that Exiles Sabretooth is kinda ridiculous. I'm not actually trying to bring exiles into this. Just more non-canon stuff.)
It's just that AOA Sabes and 616 Sabes are very VERY similar in abilities and stats from all appearances. Psylocke couldn't even distinguish a physical difference between the two in combat and she, like Danny, has roughoused with Sabretooth multiple times.

Originally posted by Soljer
I will admit that I underrate Sabretooth's durability a bit, but simply out of ignorance. I'm not too arrogant to admit when I don't know everything about a character.

But, acting like Danny Rand couldn't affect Sabretooth is ludicrous. He can knock around the top-bricks with it and destroy buildings, but can't phase sabretooth?

*Shrugs*

I'm not acting like anything... I'm stating what happened.. As far as I'm aware none of my personal bias or opinion went into that statement..

Originally posted by Soljer
Again, I don't know quite a bit enough about sabretooth to give an accurate estimation on this fight. And I kind of doubt that you know enough about Danny to do the same.
Classic Danny yes, current Danny, no and I've already admitted that.

Originally posted by Soljer
However, we both seem more than happy to defend either character when challenged.... Only in fights I think he can win.

Originally posted by jinzin
Impling he's helpess without chi amping is QUITE an exaggeration.. especially when he's staved off Luke without it.

Not helpless. I hope I never said helpless.

But, besides this fight, Danny's almost always had his Chi. Besides this (and a few other fights in the arc) he's always had his skills to rely on. In this instance, he had neither. It isn't an exaggeration to say that the few issues where his chi was unfocused, and he was unable to use his top-tier skills were the very same ones where he was weaker than he'd ever been on panel before or since. Any other time, he'd had his skills. That would have made him 'stronger' over-all. Most other times, he'd have had his chi. That would have made him 'stronger' over-all.
Originally posted by jinzin

And his fighting, it's questionable as to why he felt it was so bad.. once again the indications to his lack of focus due to tha pain that Sabretooth was already inflicting.. well...

But I've already told you. Perhaps he was further put off by Sabretooth's damage, but it's doubtful considering he's taken worse punishment in the past without faltering.

In the arc, he was pretty much left without his skills. It had nothing to do with sabretooth's attacks.

Originally posted by jinzin


That's sucks, judgement will then stay reserved.... for now.



....Kay. Don't know why I even quoted this. Not really anything to respond to, so, I'll just continue. .
Originally posted by jinzin

lol, sorry, I know how impressive classic Iron Fist is/was it's not news to me.. hehe.

As far as I knew, not many knew about the cytorrak feat, but props to you for it.



Originally posted by jinzin

Like I don't know that..

I think I didn't really adress my point very well..

Okay... either the first fight doesn't help because it wasn't against the characterization of Sabretooth we know today, OR it doesn't help because it shows that Danny couldn't even recognize that Sabretooth uses fighting skill... Either way it's a bad example to prove that he "knows" Sabes in the fighting department.

Why would it be a bad example? They've fought three (apparently four) times. .


Originally posted by jinzin

There might be validity to that, IF has beaten Colossus in CoC II afterall.

Like I don't know that. .

Never showed him getting a hole punched in him, though.

Originally posted by jinzin

So what? We don't know that that's all Wolverine can do to Colossus..
I mean Colossus seems to be under the impression that Wolverine can cut him to the bone.

Wolverine's "scored" Punisher and Daredevil in the exact same fashion.. just because he didn't cleave Peter in two doesn't mean that he absolutely can't..

You know good and well that it was never supposed to be a point in favor of Iron Fist. It was just one more example on non-canon material. It simply doesn't matter. Save your crusade about Wolverine vs. Colossus for the Wolverine vs. Colossus thread.

Originally posted by jinzin

It's just that AOA Sabes and 616 Sabes are very VERY similar in abilities and stats from all appearances.

Good for them. Non canon is non canon.

Originally posted by jinzin


I'm not acting like anything... I'm stating what happened.. As far as I'm aware none of my personal bias or opinion went into that statement..

Sure, and Danny's also hit street levellers with the Iron Fist without breaking THEM in half, too. The amount of chi he forces into his fist can vary from one extreme to another. I'm just saying that, obviously, he didn't put too much into it that time. .

Originally posted by jinzin


Classic Danny yes, current Danny, no and I've already admitted that.

Kay, kay.
Originally posted by jinzin


Only in fights I think he can win.

As I've already said; I don't know enough about current Sabretooth to judge him against Classic or Current Iron Fist, hence me not giving my opinion on odds.

Just defending a character I'm a fan of. Making sure people know both sides before they go out to give their own opinion. .

Originally posted by Soljer
Not helpless. I hope I never said helpless.
no it's just that way you came off implying.

Originally posted by Soljer
But, besides this fight, Danny's almost always had his Chi. Besides this (and a few other fights in the arc) he's always had his skills to rely on. In this instance, he had neither.

that's incorrect, he clearly had both, it was just the focus to use both wasn't there and he half-attributed that to the pain that Sabretooth was dishing out.. if he didn't have his chi he wouldn't have wound up using it.. he was just having problems getting it to work properly.

Originally posted by Soljer
it isn't an exaggeration to say that the few issues where his chi was unfocused, and he was unable to use his top-tier skills were the very same ones where he was weaker than he'd ever been on panel before or since. Any other time, he'd had his skills. That would have made him 'stronger' over-all. Most other times, he'd have had his chi. That would have made him 'stronger' over-all.
It is when you're making an argument that portrays Sabretooth as having NOTHING to do with those circumstances in the first place.


Originally posted by Soljer
But I've already told you. Perhaps he was further put off by Sabretooth's damage, but it's doubtful considering he's taken worse punishment in the past without faltering.
I don't remember Iron Fist getting semi-gutted and having to fight a superhuman through it.

Originally posted by Soljer
In the arc, he was pretty much left without his skills. It had nothing to do with sabretooth's attacks.
Exactly what I was talking about above.. Of course it didn't have everything to do with Sabretooth but he did contribute.

Originally posted by Soljer
Why would it be a bad example? They've fought three (apparently four) times. .

I thought I just explained why..

Originally posted by Soljer
Never showed him getting a hole punched in him, though.

Yeah, but then again it didn't show much of anything.

and fine to the W vs C thread lol.

Originally posted by Soljer
Good for them. Non canon is non canon.
As I said it's an outliner used to illustrate a point that already exists in canon..

Originally posted by Soljer
Sure, and Danny's also hit street levellers with the Iron Fist without breaking THEM in half, too. The amount of chi he forces into his fist can vary from one extreme to another. I'm just saying that, obviously, he didn't put too much into it that time. .
Well if we're going to argue to the negative.. then... How many people HAS he cleaved in half?
My point is simply that "obviously" you can't make an argument that Danny can do something like that to Sabretooth when Sabretooth's entire career dictates a bit of the opposite.

Originally posted by Soljer
As I've already said; I don't know enough about current Sabretooth to judge him against Classic or Current Iron Fist, hence me not giving my opinion on odds.

Just defending a character I'm a fan of. Making sure people know both sides before they go out to give their own opinion. .
fair enough.

Now dammit Soljer.. I need sleep.. where can we agree to disagree here and under what terms?

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's just that way you came off implying.

It's merely what you inferred. Certainly not what I meant to imply.


Originally posted by jinzin

that's incorrect, he clearly had both, it was just the focus to use both wasn't there and he half-attributed that to the pain that Sabretooth was dishing out.. if he didn't have his chi he wouldn't have wound up using it.. he was just having problems getting it to work properly.


It is when you're making an argument that portrays Sabretooth as having NOTHING to do with those circumstances in the first place.

Like I said; when, besides then, has Iron Fist been barred from his Chi AND lacking in his skills? Ever? Before then? Since then?

Then he was weaker than ever.


Originally posted by jinzin

As I said it's an outliner used to illustrate a point that already exists in canon..
But you simply can't.

Someone could easily say that what the Silver Surfer accomplished in requiem would be well within his abilities to do. There are plenty of 'points' that exist in canon to support this. However, non canon is non canon.
Originally posted by jinzin

Well if we're going to argue to the negative.. then... How many people HAS he cleaved in half?
My point is simply that "obviously" you can't make an argument that Danny can do something like that to Sabretooth when Sabretooth's entire career dictates a bit of the opposite.

How many has danny himself cleaved in half? Meh.

Orson Randall, a much weaker Iron Fist, however, did punch an attacker in two in one of the more recent issues. He was kinda, you know, the type to hold back a little less. .
Originally posted by jinzin


fair enough.

Now dammit Soljer.. I need sleep.. where can we agree to disagree here and under what terms?



I dunno, it's not like I'm arguing odds, you know? All I really know of Sabretooth is what I've seen in his few appearances that I own, and what I've heard from you here on KMC.

From THAT (admittedly limited) information, I think it's well within classic danny's ability to take a few wins (definitely not a majority), and likely within current Danny's abilities to take a split.

Again, though, I've admitted my ignorance. And because of that, I won't be saying that I firmly believe that. . Go get some sleep, friend.

Originally posted by Soljer
It's merely what you inferred. Certainly not what I meant to imply.

fair enough.

Originally posted by Soljer
Like I said; when, besides then, has Iron Fist been barred from his Chi AND lacking in his skills? Ever? Before then? Since then?

Then he was weaker than ever.
He was "barred" halfway as a result of fighting Sabretooth in the first place.. so I don't see it that way.

Originally posted by Soljer
But you simply can't.

Someone could easily say that what the Silver Surfer accomplished in requiem would be well within his abilities to do. There are plenty of 'points' that exist in canon to support this. However, non canon is non canon.

I think I can when there's evidence that exists to support a point from both timelines as consistent.. when there are clear cut inconsistencies to 616 sure non canon can be dismissed far more easily.. but when evidence and on panel suggestions support parallels I can't help but draw conclusions from a non-canon source that parallels 616.

Originally posted by Soljer
How many has danny himself cleaved in half? Meh.

Orson Randall, a much weaker Iron Fist, however, did punch an attacker in two in one of the more recent issues. He was kinda, you know, the type to hold back a little less. .
Was this attacker the "I'm Warbird with 50-60 tons of lifting strength but can't put a nerve pinch effectively onto classic pre-upgraded twice Sabretooth"-Sabretooth kind of attacker. or just some guy?
wow that was confusing even to me.. sorry. lol.

Originally posted by Soljer


I dunno, it's not like I'm arguing odds, you know? All I really know of Sabretooth is what I've seen in his few appearances that I own, and what I've heard from you here on KMC.

And I would totally change that if I could just get the Wolvie respect thread outa the way. lol

Originally posted by Soljer
From THAT (admittedly limited) information, I think it's well within classic danny's ability to take a few wins (definitely not a majority), and likely within current Danny's abilities to take a split.
Agreed to classic Danny...
Depending on upcoming feats from Danny current IF could/might pull off a majority but he's gotta prove himself past hyperbole I think.

Originally posted by Soljer
Again, though, I've admitted my ignorance. And because of that, I won't be saying that I firmly believe that. . Go get some sleep, friend. hehe.. I'll try....

Ahh KMC the comic addicts drug.

Originally posted by jinzin

Agreed to classic Danny...
Depending on upcoming feats from Danny current IF could/might pull off a majority but he's gotta prove himself past hyperbole I think.

hehe.. I'll try....

Ahh KMC the comic addicts drug.

*ignores everything else*

HA! Danny could take a majority. .

.

Anyways, gnight, friend.