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http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4586/sephiroth8jy.jpg

v.s.

http://www.starwars-union.de/bilder/lexikon/20061001Sion.jpg

Takes place in Haven City.

No Force Kill.

harry got dumbledor in his chocolate frog

BT...wtf? Anyway, take off Sion's invulnerability.

No invenerability.

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
No invenerability.

whats invenerability? i wish i had that one

Invenerability? You mean "invulnerability". Oh yeah, you just got grammar owned.

LOL sorry.

Sephiroth!

Assuming the Lightsaber doesn't just, you know, cut through the Masamume, Sephiroth takes it.

Though the force powers would be very tricky for any non SW character, I think Sephiroth is one of the few would might be able to clench that victory

Sion sucks at the Force with a burning passion compared to most characters lol! The only special thing about him is his saber skills, and his unique immortality. Seph takes this, but Nihilus would toss Seph around like a rag doll.

Sephiroth's Masamune is made of spirit energy. I don't have any idea what would happen if it clash against a Lightsaber.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but the Force isn't just a form of telekinesis? Sephiroth have telekinesis too.

Originally posted by SHM
Sephiroth's masamune is made of spirit energy. I don't have any idea what would happen if it clash against a Lightsaber.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but the Force isn't just a form of telekinesis? Sephiroth have telekinesis too.

I thought lightsabers were just concentrated light...if thats true in theory they can brun through anything that can melt.... since the sword atleast appears metal i would guess it would ruin it for him IMO

Originally posted by SHM
Sephiroth's Masamune is made of spirit energy. I don't have any idea what would happen if it clash against a Lightsaber.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but the Force isn't just a form of telekinesis? Sephiroth have telekinesis too. No the Force is not just TK dude. Tho for a Force Demi-God like Nihilus, that would be all he needs to punk Seph.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
No the Force is not just TK dude. Tho for a Force Demi-God like Nihilus, that would be all he needs to punk Seph.

afraid for once V2D....Co-Signed

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
No the Force is not just TK dude. Tho for a Force Demi-God like Nihilus, that would be all he needs to punk Seph.

Force Demi-God? He's not Palpatine or Luke or Yoda but Nihilus is pretty good I guess.

He's force god in that he rapes entire planets.

What Blax said. Nihilus IMO is the 2nd strongest Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
What Blax said. Nihilus IMO is the 2nd strongest Sith Lord.

who's #1?

Palpatine

Sidious/Palpatine.

Well, that doesn't make sense to me ^^' But then I'm not really into SW a great deal, only saw the movies, and in those I guess Nihilus is stronger, but if you say so, you're right...

Well... If he didn't decide to play with Cloud in AC and lose to his own arrogance, Seph would have raped the entire planet, and used it to travell the universe to rape other planets.

Originally posted by Remindme
who's #1?

Darth Revan

Well, Sion pretty much is limitted to force me thinks... (Sephiroth was stated immune to heat which is pretty much a Lightsaber and even if he was vulnerable, Genesis's sword was in a lightsaber like state and was still paryable....)
Id say Sephiroth...

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
Well, Sion pretty much is limitted to force me thinks... (Sephiroth was stated immune to heat which is pretty much a Lightsaber and even if he was vulnerable, Genesis's sword was in a lightsaber like state and was still paryable....)
Id say Sephiroth... Okay, you are taking that immune to heat thing too literally. A LS would cut him, but nontheless, he wins.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
What Blax said. Nihilus IMO is the 2nd strongest Sith Lord.

Uh hell no, 2nd goes to either revan or exar kun.

Only thing nihilus is special is his draining technique which several force users can counter with the fallanasi technique.



In other aspects of the force , Vader, exar and revan are greater and stronger than nihilus

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
Well, Sion pretty much is limitted to force me thinks... (Sephiroth was stated immune to heat which is pretty much a Lightsaber and even if he was vulnerable, Genesis's sword was in a lightsaber like state and was still paryable....)
Id say Sephiroth...

Just where does it state sephiroth is immune to heat?

Anyways sephiroth wins this, sions "immortality" is only avalible when he is empowered by the dark side of the force in planets like malachor

Originally posted by Manslayer
Uh hell no, 2nd goes to either revan or exar kun.

Only thing nihilus is special is his draining technique which several force users can counter with the fallanasi technique.



In other aspects of the force , Vader, exar and revan are greater and stronger than nihilus TK. He at a weakened state brought the Exile to her knees with a gesture, his mere presence and speech slowly kill all around him. How is Revan stronger? Name one feat that puts him on the level of Nihilus, in power. Nihilus holds his ship together, keeps his crews minds enslaved, and keeps them alive, simultaneously. He TKed his whole fleet for crying out loud. He can also feel beings thru the Force all across the galaxy. He in cut content pwned the so-called "invincible" Sion easily in 10 seconds with one attack of Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
TK.
Sidious and yodas TK surpass his, Vaders TK has been shown to instantly kill its victims

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
his mere presence and speech slowly kill all around him. How is Revan stronger? Name one feat that puts him on the level of Nihilus, in power. Nihilus holds his ship together,
His mere presence effected the non force users and the weak minded. Mandalore and the mandalorians didnt get effected by this


Originally posted by Violent2Dope

He TKed his whole fleet for crying out loud.
Again its one ship, not a fleet as the out of universe source states

Originally posted by Violent2Dope

He can also feel beings thru the Force all across the galaxy. He in cut content pwned the so-called "invincible" Sion easily in 10 seconds with one attack of Force Lightning. Cut content = non canon nor did it ever happen,

So what if he senses beings on the other side of the galaxy? Vader demonstrates this in TESB, Obi wan demonstrates this in ANH

And feat wars? Revan simply has much greater knowledge of the force than nihilus. He studied everything nihilus didnt know when he plundered malachor and his biggest feat is problably using malachors dark side aura to destroy the mandalorian crusaders i think


@Edit.

Though its claimed nihilus holds his ship together with the force, the ship still stayed together after he died

Originally posted by Manslayer
Sidious and yodas TK surpass his, Vaders TK has been shown to instantly kill its victims

His mere presence effected the non force users and the weak minded. Mandalore and the mandalorians didnt get effected by this


Again its one ship, not a fleet as the out of universe source states

Cut content = non canon nor did it ever happen,

So what if he senses beings on the other side of the galaxy? Vader demonstrates this in TESB, Obi wan demonstrates this in ANH

And feat wars? Revan simply has much greater knowledge of the force than nihilus. He studied everything nihilus didnt know when he plundered malachor and his biggest feat is problably using malachors dark side aura to destroy the mandalorian crusaders i think


@Edit.

Though its claimed nihilus holds his ship together with the force, the ship still stayed together after he died 1. Sidious, yes, Yoda, don't know why he's even being mentioned. Vader, good for him, Nihilus TKed his fleet, as Tobin stated. Nihilus in a weakened state took the Exile to her knees with a mere gesture, and could have easily killed her, but tryed to Force Kill her, and failed due to her nature as a wound.

2. Mandalorians? The only Mandalorian in his presence was Canderous, who is a veteran, and very familiar with Jedi and Sith.

3. Tobin states it.

4. True, but come one, he was always meant to be the strongest KOTOR 2 character.

5. It still shows power thru the Force, and Nihilus did it to find the exact location of one being.

6. Kay. Nihilus killed a planet's population by speaking.

7. It blew up soon after he did. Also, what about him keeping his whole crew enslaved and keeping them alive at the same time?

Finally, another good feat, Nihilus while doubly weakened(by his hunger and trying to Force Kill the Exile) fought three opponents, the Exile, who knew at least 3 saber forms, and was stronger than an average Jedi now, Visas, and Canderous, the 2 former using sabers and the latter either using blasters or a vibroblade. Then, it turns out, Nihilus WAS WINNING according to dialogue by Visas, then he eventually fell, either by fighting hard with the power of friendship and love(ROFL) or having Visas f*ck with his flow of power via her Force Bond with him.

I just realised. When in the world did Force Users get Telekensis. Am I missing something here

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Sidious, yes, Yoda, don't know why he's even being mentioned. Vader, good for him, Nihilus TKed his fleet, as Tobin stated.
Tobin is fallible, he was not there when nihilus drawed his ship out of the gravity well, Again the loading screen states only nihilus lifted out his flagship and makes no mention of other ships.

Out of universe statements > tobins statement. This is a basic rule in star wars debating


Originally posted by Violent2Dope

Nihilus in a weakened state took the Exile to her knees with a mere gesture, and could have easily killed her, but tryed to Force Kill her, and failed due to her nature as a wound. Nihilus never brought her to her knees, he just stunned her
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

2. Mandalorians? The only Mandalorian in his presence was Canderous, who is a veteran, and very familiar with Jedi and Sith. Zuka was in there, he didnt get effected, so was the neo crusaders, watch th cut scene and you are wrong
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

3. Tobin states it. He is fallible nor did he see nihilus lifting his ship from malachor, the other sith warships looked undamaged and brand new thus they couldnt have been near malachor


Originally posted by Violent2Dope

5. It still shows power thru the Force, and Nihilus did it to find the exact location of one being. Again revan, vader and the others can easily do this, even ANH obi wan did it
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

6. Kay. Nihilus killed a planet's population by speaking.
You are taking things too litrally, the comic
clearly illustrates nihilus draining the planet, Visas quote is hyperbole and the fact that when he spoke to them, he drained them at the same time
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

7. It blew up soon after he did. Also, what about him keeping his whole crew enslaved and keeping them alive at the same time? That doesnt show great strength in the force. And the ship which blew up was due to the bombs the exile planted
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

Finally, another good feat, Nihilus while doubly weakened(by his hunger and trying to Force Kill the Exile) fought three opponents, the Exile, who knew at least 3 saber forms, and was stronger than an average Jedi now, Visas, and Canderous, the 2 former using sabers and the latter either using blasters or a vibroblade. Then, it turns out, Nihilus WAS WINNING according to dialogue by Visas, then he eventually fell, either by fighting hard with the power of friendship and love(ROFL) or having Visas f*ck with his flow of power via her Force Bond with him. So? Vader fights 8 jedi masters at once, wtf pwns 4 of them and his clone troopers came in to kill the other 4,

And this purge vader hasnt even been trained by sidious yet seeing it happens only 3 weks after revenge of the sith

Originally posted by Csdabest
I just realised. When in the world did Force Users get Telekensis. Am I missing something here

Never seen vader using telekenesis in The empire strikes back? Never seen dooku using it in AOTC? Never seen luke skywalker using it on dagobah?

Shut up already

You obviously know jack about star wars and you act like your some star was intellect

You know.I cant find it anywhere were they state they use teleknesis. Look who is going on speculation. Looked on different sources on their jedi and sith abilities. I dont see telekenesis. but if you want to keep arguing about it sensely..Be my guess. Have fun Manslayer

Originally posted by Csdabest
You know.I cant find it anywhere were they state they use teleknesis. Look who is going on speculation. Looked on different sources on their jedi and sith abilities. I dont see telekenesis. but if you want to keep arguing about it sensely..Be my guess. Have fun Manslayer

DSSB states telekenesis is part of their abilities

Look here you DOLT, Vader sends objects flying at luke skywalker in the movies . Oh wait you are so idiotic ill post you a link of vader actually doing it while being backed up by the omniscient narrator

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8969/talesvolume1172tn3.jpg


^ Read the upper left hand corner and shut the hell up.

Oh and to further disprove your theory the force is about manipulating midicholrians, That guy vader flung in the air is a cyborg

NOW for the serious matter : heres a request
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/654/plsstfuva3202eb1.jpg

Interesting...and I love you too Manslayer....I like how you keep following me around and PMing all the time even though I told you to stop...Your making me blush...Honestly

Originally posted by Csdabest
Interesting...and I love you too Manslayer....I like how you keep following me around and PMing all the time even though I told you to stop...Your making me blush...Honestly

Firstly i didnt pm you, I was the one who pmed violent2k and then you came in and reply and argue like a dumbass who never shuts up or backs his claims.

I merely replied, you replied with crap and i corrected you, period and now you accuse me of stalking you?

If you didnt want me to reply to your PMs then in the first place you shouldnt have PM! Whats so hard to understand?

Sheesh i can be mentally retarted and out debate you

How bout i be nice enough to post what you sent me in your PMs?

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7519/stfuvaderoh6.jpg

Dude..I like Sooo wanna french you right now...Those lovely 8 PM you sent me were fantasticly romantic. I think Im in love. You vast knowlege of the science fiction world is soooo turning me on. Give me more.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Dude..I like Sooo wanna french you right now...Those lovely 8 PM you sent me were fantasticly romantic. I think Im in love. You vast knowlege of the science fiction world is soooo turning me on. Give me more.

Lets see, seems to me you are in :

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9311/starwarsdenialob7.jpg


Lol behaving like a lunatic huh? How are those anti depressants going?

Tell you what im not going to bother to argue with you anymore seeing that we are derailing the topic.



@ To the ones interested in this versus match
Back on topic, sephiroth wins, sion is an overrated bullshit character, his immortality is only on malachor V, no where else, and maybe on dark side empowered worlds.

Since this fight isn't there, sephiroth wins quite comfortably

No I just truely Admire yours feeling to me. Sephiroth wins do to the nerfed Darth Sion and that he is not that effiecent with Force Powers. But I will be picking you up around 8. And I'll stop when you stop backing up each of your arguments with insults. But untill then....I'll just pretend you my cute little fudge muffin

Lol not an insult when its a fact.

Ill stop here

@ To forum users, stay away from Csdabest, he just admitted he loves me and wants to bang me in the ass, how cute. Sorry but I'm heterosexual, not bi or homo.

I like girls, not guys, sorry csdabest

Oh you have absolutely no idea

I don't care about rankings but it's quite obvious that Nihilus is more powerful than the likes of Exar and Revan. Also, to manslayer Revan never used the ds energy of Malachor to defeat the crusaders. He only ever used Malachor's ds energy to turn Jedi - still nowhere near as powerful as Nihilus though.

As for this fight it depends, if Sephiroth can match or eclipse the speed of a force user like Sion he probably wins it.

However I'll say that taking away Sion's invulnerability is like taking away more than half of Sephiroth's powers. He's invulnerability is what makes him special.

Originally posted by Allankles
I don't care about rankings but it's quite obvious that Nihilus is more powerful than the likes of Exar and Revan. Also, to manslayer Revan never used the ds energy of Malachor to defeat the crusaders. He only ever used Malachor's ds energy to turn Jedi - still nowhere near as powerful as Nihilus though. Settle this in the SW lietrature forum. Name the thread what ever you want
Originally posted by Allankles

As for this fight it depends, if Sephiroth can match or eclipse the speed of a force user like Sion he probably wins it.
Sion never demonstarted force speed nor was he ever depicted to "move faster than the eye can see" such like sidious luke or vader when vader dodged a blaster bolt after it was fired

Originally posted by Allankles

However I'll say that taking away Sion's invulnerability is like taking away more than half of Sephiroth's powers. He's invulnerability is what makes him special. And his "invulnerability " is only on dark side empowered world as he him self stated. And his "invulnerability" can be taken away by stronger willed and more powerful force users

Originally posted by Manslayer
Tobin is fallible, he was not there when nihilus drawed his ship out of the gravity well, Again the loading screen states only nihilus lifted out his flagship and makes no mention of other ships.

Out of universe statements > tobins statement. This is a basic rule in star wars debating


Nihilus never brought her to her knees, he just stunned her
Zuka was in there, he didnt get effected, so was the neo crusaders, watch th cut scene and you are wrong
He is fallible nor did he see nihilus lifting his ship from malachor, the other sith warships looked undamaged and brand new thus they couldnt have been near malachor


Again revan, vader and the others can easily do this, even ANH obi wan did it
You are taking things too litrally, the comic
clearly illustrates nihilus draining the planet, Visas quote is hyperbole and the fact that when he spoke to them, he drained them at the same time
That doesnt show great strength in the force. And the ship which blew up was due to the bombs the exile planted
So? Vader fights 8 jedi masters at once, wtf pwns 4 of them and his clone troopers came in to kill the other 4,

And this purge vader hasnt even been trained by sidious yet seeing it happens only 3 weks after revenge of the sith 1. How do you even know he was not there?

2. Are you sure? I can't really remember, been awhile. Either way, he easily could have killed her after doing so, but didn't.

3. Kay, I will.

4. They maight not have suffered the great damage the Ravager did.

5. When the hell has Revan done this? I'm not saying he can't, just want to know when. And also, Vader, Revan, and ANH Kenobi are strong in the Force, well, Kenobi kinda is...

6. Said comic clearly states he did it by speaking. And that is still a greater feat of power than Revan has.

7. I know that's why it blew up, but ever think that it may of exploded before Nihilus' power over it wore off? Also, he kept it together, enslaved his crew, and kept them alive, how does that not=power over the Force?

8. Kay. Nihilus was beating 3 people, one of whom I can confidently say is a great Jedi with the power of a master, and beyond the ones Vader fought, and was winning, and this is while doubly weakened as I said, at full power he would have murked them.

On a side note, this Csdabest guy is a moron.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. How do you even know he was not there? Because the ravager was pulled out prior to the sith civil war and at that time tobin was in onderon
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

2. Are you sure? I can't really remember, been awhile. Either way, he easily could have killed her after doing so, but didn't. No, she got stunned
Originally posted by Violent2Dope


4. They maight not have suffered the great damage the Ravager did.
If they suffered any damage at all it would have been made obvious. Again after the jedi civil war there are still sith warships in existence, namely those who didnt participate in the battle of rakata prime
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

5. When the hell has Revan done this? I'm not saying he can't, just want to know when. And also, Vader, Revan, and ANH Kenobi are strong in the Force, well, Kenobi kinda is... Revan can seeing he is a very powerful force user
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

6. Said comic clearly states he did it by speaking. And that is still a greater feat of power than Revan has. Your taking things out of context, if he kills people by talking, wouldnt that make him more powerful than sidious? Wouldnt mandalore die because he spoke?

Again the comic clearly illustrates him draining the planet and not killing everything by "talking". He cuts them off the force causing them to die and feeds on the death it causes.

Prove that he kills people by speaking,

Visas said this when my master spoke, everything on katar died ,
She merely said that when he spoke, people began to die, That doesn't mean his words killed them, he could have communicated with them telepathically and then at the same time drained them.

So if this guy says "When guy B spoke, Guy A dies" Does that mean Guy B killed Guy A by speaking? Considering the fact that he has a weapon in his hand?

Considering the fact that nihilus kills his victims by using his variant of the force sever technique?
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

7. I know that's why it blew up, but ever think that it may of exploded before Nihilus' power over it wore off? Also, he kept it together, enslaved his crew, and kept them alive, how does that not=power over the Force?

Well if he did held the ship together while being alive, how come the ship stays intact after he dies when he can no longer control the ship?
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

8. Kay. Nihilus was beating 3 people, one of whom I can confidently say is a great Jedi with the power of a master, and beyond the ones Vader fought,
Prove that the exile is greater than the jedis vader killed. The jedi he fought were powerful enough to survive order 66 and fight through dozens of clones.

Again nothing special about the exile other than learning a few lightsaber forms quickly and being unable to master them as quickly as vader did

The council already stated the exile is an average jedi master .

Name me a few feats please, other than simply learning a few forms and being able to bond with people quickly


Oh by the way george lucas stated PT era jedi > Kotor jedi, he refers the PT jedi as "Prime of the jedi" in the revenge of the sith commentary

Meaning the jedi vader killed were alot stronger than the ones in kotor

Originally posted by Violent2Dope

and was winning, and this is while doubly weakened as I said, at full power he would have murked them. Murked them with the force, not a saber duel as we know shit about his dueling abilties.

Who is to say that the fight between him and the party was a saber duel? It could have been a force duel where visa and mandalore and exile are clearly surpassed seeing they got nothing impressive on them

And yes csdabest is an idiot, by the way how did he get my pm? I thought i messaged you

Originally posted by Manslayer
Because the ravager was pulled out prior to the sith civil war and at that time tobin was in onderon
No, she got stunned
If they suffered any damage at all it would have been made obvious. Again after the jedi civil war there are still sith warships in existence, namely those who didnt participate in the battle of rakata prime
Revan can seeing he is a very powerful force user
Your taking things out of context, if he kills people by talking, wouldnt that make him more powerful than sidious? Wouldnt mandalore die because he spoke?

Again the comic clearly illustrates him draining the planet and not killing everything by "talking". He cuts them off the force causing them to die and feeds on the death it causes.

Prove that he kills people by speaking,

Visas said this when my master spoke, everything on katar died ,
She merely said that when he spoke, people began to die, That doesn't mean his words killed them, he could have communicated with them telepathically and then at the same time drained them.

So if this guy says "When guy B spoke, Guy A dies" Does that mean Guy B killed Guy A by speaking? Considering the fact that he has a weapon in his hand?

Considering the fact that nihilus kills his victims by using his variant of the force sever technique?


Well if he did held the ship together while being alive, how come the ship stays intact after he dies when he can no longer control the ship?
Prove that the exile is greater than the jedis vader killed. The jedi he fought were powerful enough to survive order 66 and fight through dozens of clones.

Again nothing special about the exile other than learning a few lightsaber forms quickly and being unable to master them as quickly as vader did

The council already stated the exile is an average jedi master .

Name me a few feats please, other than simply learning a few forms and being able to bond with people quickly


Oh by the way george lucas stated PT era jedi > Kotor jedi, he refers the PT jedi as "Prime of the jedi" in the revenge of the sith commentary

Meaning the jedi vader killed were alot stronger than the ones in kotor

Murked them with the force, not a saber duel as we know shit about his dueling abilties.

Who is to say that the fight between him and the party was a saber duel? It could have been a force duel where visa and mandalore and exile are clearly surpassed seeing they got nothing impressive on them

And yes csdabest is an idiot, by the way how did he get my pm? I thought i messaged you 1. A'ight then, I'll just take your word for it.

2. And? Are you saying he couldn't have lobbed off her head with his saber while she was stunned?

3. Makes sense, I'll concede this point. Man it sucks that Nihilus supporters have so little to work with lol.

4. Revan, IMO, did have more knowledge in the Force, but Nihilus had greater power over it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not undermining Revan, he was of course powerful, and had many powerful attacks like the Thought Bomb. He is in the top 5 Sith for sure.

5. He actually DOES slowly Force Kill people by speaking, only to a much lesser extent, and my take on it is that he has control over when he uses its full power.

6. It blew up soon after Nihilus died, maybe it would take time to crumble.

7. The Exile WAS average, before she became a wound. Going by that logic, Vader is a weak little boy who would get pwned by Sebulba. Exile murked Kreia, who easily one shotted 3 Jedi Masters. Also, on the whole, yes, PT Jedi are stronger, but not EVERY PT Jedi is stronger than any KOTOR Jedi.

8. Yeah, unfortunately Nihilus' saber abilities are an unknown, he could have been average, or he could have been the best in the game, we don't know. Also, the Exile and her party started off close to Nihilus, he had to logically use his saber, tho how the fight went is also unknown.

9. I have no idea. I never got a pm.

Also, here is a bunch of info Nik put together.


Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
The Lord Of Hunger

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6955/nihilusll4.jpg


Powers of Darth Nihilus


"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."
--Tobin

Mandalore: is barely holding itself together. The structural damage should have destroyed it long ago.

Tobin: He holds it together. And he keeps us all alive, just enough, like rotworms in a dying beast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EogIiuZI9PQ


"When my Lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died."
http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6753/nihiluszx9.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/Nik_TehPimpXor/Nihilus2.jpg

Additional Info:
"The last Jedi conclave was on Katarr, a Miraluka colony. And all of Katarr was destroyed, all of the Jedi killed...Including Master Zhar...

As we see, Nihilus easily tosses around a Jedi Master and his former tutor but that is not all.
What Traya later says happened to her:
"And there would be those, like me, who have had the Force stripped from them."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2bcS4uZWtY

Force Choke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wt4fwDx1lE

Able to transfer his consciousness to other objects
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=646&page=070

Nihilus vs. The Jedi Exile, The Mandalore and (his former) apprentice Visas Marr

First and foremost, what shape was Nihilus in prior to the fight with the Exile?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EogIiuZI9PQ

1:49

"The Master suffers... If he can not feed, then the hunger begins to consume him The planet Telos... He may feed on something upon its surface to sustain himself a while longer."

2:33
" spoke of the Jedi academy here on Telos...and my Master was forced to come here." -Tobin

2:54
"If there are no Jedi here, then my Lord cannot feed his hunger. He will destroy the planet, the station... he will cleanse it of life. ...and if there are no Jedi below, he will have no other choice."


So, the Exile, Visas and the Mandalore all proceed to the bridge of The Ravager and confront Nihilus in this condition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV8iniopJ3U

The subtitles aren’t in English but it’s the clearest vid I could find of this.

At 00:34, Nihilus stuns the Exile. The Exile and everyone else is at his mercy with no more than a gesture after turning around.

But he chooses not to. He chooses, because he “suffers”, to try and drain the Exile. (1:08) He then falls down before getting back up, withdrawing his saber and preparing to fight.

Jump to the end of the fight. After the Mandalore, Visas and the Exile have been assaulting him.

What were the results of that initial conflict?

Visas: “He... is too powerful...” (1:56)

So, the only canon account we have of how that first skirmish went was that apparently he was either beating the crap out of all of them or whatever they did had no effect. And this is him doubly weakened.

But yes, Nihilus does eventually lose the fight. If he had chosen to, however, he could have beaten the Exile in the first seconds of the fight. And the Exile overcame Nihilus with 2 assistants.

About Nihilus

His Power:
Kreia: it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes
(presumably what he did to Katarr)

Kreia on Nihilus:
"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."

"his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him."


Visas: I do not believe he knows his ship has been boarded. And if he did, he would not care. The extent of his power can not be put into words. And his perceptions have grown as well. To him...

Tobin: You are dust motes in a storm. A grain upon the beach and as insignificant as a body that orbits the graveyard of Malachor.

Canderous: If he’s so powerful, why hasn’t he stopped us, then?

Tobin: It is because he sees planets, stars...not people. To him, the planet below, the station with its teeming life, only that is massive enough to demand his attention.

Visas: He is a wound in the Force, more presence than flesh, and in his wake life dies… sacrificing itself to his hunger."

"You have taken this trophy from the remains of Darth Nihilus - it is the last surviving piece of the beast who died and was reborn in the shattered world of Malachor V.

Evil Never Dies: The Sith Lords says Nihilus is a Dark Lord of the Sith.

"Many times the title of "the last Dark Lord" has been erroneously applied. First the Dark Lord Naga Sadow, vanquished by the Galactic Republic in the Great Hyperspace War 5,000 years before the Battle of Yavin, was thought to be the last. Then a thousand years later, the fallen Jedi Exar Kun was considered the last of these dark siders' twisted kind. Then Darth Nihilus . . . then Lord Kaan . . . then Darth Vader."

NON-CANON/CUT CONTENT

Darth Nihilus owns Darth Sion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IobIhctxRXg

Guys if you want to debate Nihilus and Revan, theres an entire SW section to do it in......

Originally posted by Manslayer
Settle this in the SW lietrature forum. Name the thread what ever you want

I don't have to. Unless you can tell me how Revan and Kun have force power comparable to draining the life out of a planet or telekinetically lifting a fleet including using TK to lift the Ravager out of Malachor 5 gravity well.

He already tramps them in dark side power, his TK is on another level to theirs. Kreia pretty much states that he's no longer a man but more like a force of nature. Of course Revan and Kun aren't on the same level in terms of power

As far as Tobin being a fallible third party source. Since when did stating the details of an event that happened in-universe become fallible? How can a fictional characters account on an in-universe EVENT be fallible?

And the only reason you state for making such an assertion is that, he wasn't there? How do you know? How do you know how Tobin acquired such knowledge? We don't even know when Nihilus lifted his fleet with TK.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And his "invulnerability " is only on dark side empowered world as he him self stated. And his "invulnerability" can be taken away by stronger willed and more powerful force users

Debatable, it's not relevant to this thread anyway.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. A'ight then, I'll just take your word for it.

2. And? Are you saying he couldn't have lobbed off her head with his saber while she was stunned?
He wanted to feed on her right?


Originally posted by Violent2Dope

4. Revan, IMO, did have more knowledge in the Force, but Nihilus had greater power over it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not undermining Revan, he was of course powerful, and had many powerful attacks like the Thought Bomb. He is in the top 5 Sith for sure. More knowledge = more power and strength in the force
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

5. He actually DOES slowly Force Kill people by speaking, only to a much lesser extent, and my take on it is that he has control over when he uses its full power. The weak minded ones yea but the jedi and the mandalorians? No
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

6. It blew up soon after Nihilus died, maybe it would take time to crumble. Again because of the bombs, if the ship were really held together and if it would fall to pieces, then the exile wouldn't need to plant the bombs in the first place
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

7. The Exile WAS average, before she became a wound. Going by that logic, Vader is a weak little boy who would get pwned by Sebulba.
The "weak little boy" wasnt even a jedi yet so your point holds no water
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

Exile murked Kreia, who easily one shotted 3 Jedi Masters. Also, on the whole, yes, PT Jedi are stronger, but not EVERY PT Jedi is stronger than any KOTOR Jedi. Kreia easily shotted 3 inferior jedi whom arent even powerful.

And the fight between kreia and exile could have been a very very hard one, So because exile beats kreia = she > vader? This has been settled long before on SWV, Vader wtf owns the exile seeing that she never does anything with the force
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

8. Yeah, unfortunately Nihilus' saber abilities are an unknown, he could have been average, or he could have been the best in the game, we don't know. Also, the Exile and her party started off close to Nihilus, he had to logically use his saber, tho how the fight went is also unknown. Again we dont know shit about his ability so no point argueing


Originally posted by Violent2Dope

Also, here is a bunch of info Nik put together. You just repeated what he said and i refuted it, so no point using other peoples arguement unless you own one stands

Originally posted by Allankles
I don't have to. Unless you can tell me how Revan and Kun have force power comparable to draining the life out of a planet or telekinetically lifting a fleet including using TK to lift the Ravager out of Malachor 5 gravity well.
Again prove that nihilus lifted a fleet, he was never at malachor when nihilus lifted his ship out, The reason why you dont want to set a thread in the star wars section is because you get your ass handed by darth sexy on a constant basis about this issue

Originally posted by Allankles

He already tramps them in dark side power, his TK is on another level to theirs. Kreia pretty much states that he's no longer a man but more like a force of nature. Of course Revan and Kun aren't on the same level in terms of powerof Malachor 5 gravity well.
Settle this in the EU thread if you dare. You said you dont have to for fear of severe pwnage by darth sexy and gideon
Originally posted by Allankles

As far as Tobin being a fallible third party source. Since when did stating the details of an event that happened in-universe become fallible? How can a fictional characters account on an in-universe EVENT be fallible? Because simply he wasnt there you frickin hypocrite, you are so fond of b!tching how fallible kreia is and now you contradict your self by saying since when an in universe source became fallible?

Really? Then i guess the rodian in kotor statement of exar kun being the most poweful sith lord must be 100% true going by what you said
Originally posted by Allankles

And the only reason you state for making such an assertion is that, he wasn't there? How do you know?
Because nihilus lifted his flagship as the loading screen said prior to K2 where TOBIN IS IN ONDERON? So how could he have seen him lifting his flaship?

Name me an out of universe source which says he lifted a fleet rather than an fallible third party character, now


Originally posted by Allankles

How do you know how Tobin acquired such knowledge? We don't even know when Nihilus lifted his fleet with TK. Correction, its ship not a fleet. And yes we DO have a slight idea of when he lifted his ship, certeinly before he even met tobin, prior to Kotor 2 when tobin has never even met the guy

Again the sith warships in telos ARE NOT damaged, meaning if they were actually in the gravity well the exterior damage WOULD have been obvious, heres a screen to prove it





http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/9222/ravexpia2.jpg

^ The sith interdictors are not damaged thus they couldnt have been in the gravity well which WILL show obvious exterior damage. Just to remind you there are warships who survived the star forge battle and those could have been the one

Originally posted by Manslayer
He wanted to feed on her right?


More knowledge = more power and strength in the force
The weak minded ones yea but the jedi and the mandalorians? No
Again because of the bombs, if the ship were really held together and if it would fall to pieces, then the exile wouldn't need to plant the bombs in the first place
The "weak little boy" wasnt even a jedi yet so your point holds no water
Kreia easily shotted 3 inferior jedi whom arent even powerful.

And the fight between kreia and exile could have been a very very hard one, So because exile beats kreia = she > vader? This has been settled long before on SWV, Vader wtf owns the exile seeing that she never does anything with the force
Again we dont know shit about his ability so no point argueing


You just repeated what he said and i refuted it, so no point using other peoples arguement unless you own one stands 1. Yeah he wanted to feed on her, and this helps my point, even while already weakened,he would have EASILY killed her, but his starvation forced him to try and Force Kill her, and it backfired, which weakened him further.

2. Feats>Speculation, Revan was more knowledgable, sure, but Nihilus has by far the better feats of Force power. He is also stronger in the Dark Side.

3. Well, I don't know if weak minded would be the right word, more like people who have no experience with Force users. But it still helps the point that he speaks to do it.

4. Faulty logic. How the hell was the Exile supposed to know Nihilus kept it together? She never has seen Nihilus or his ship, and Visas either didn't tell her or she had no clue herself, due to being blind.

5. And the Exile is no longer an average Jedi. Inferior? What makes you call them inferior? Vrook wielded the Ataru, Shien, Niman, and Juyo saber forms, and was skilled at using the advanced Force forms as well, and was different among most Jedi in that he masters Force Lightning. Zez-Kai-Ell used a dual bladed saber, and used Ataru, Juyo, Shien, and Niman, and mastered advanced Force forms. Kavar fought with two sabers(Jar'Kai), one was normal, the other short, and used Niman, Ataru, Juyo, and Shien, and also mastered advanced Force forms, and was so skilled at Force Stun he could use it on multiple opponents. He was a famed Jedi Guardian, and the Mandalorians thot he would have been the one to lead the Jedi to war. Out of the 4 Jedi you are talking about, only Drallig and Keto are even worth 2 shits, the other were fodder for Vader.

6. Stop twisting my words. I never said Exile>Vader, and Exile is much weaker than Nihilus as well. Nihilus was doubly weakened, and fought three people, was winning half the fight, til he eventually fell.

7. Wasn't arguing. just said his saber skills are unknown.

8. I actually was just taking that from the Nihilus respect thread, which happened to be made by Nik.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Yeah he wanted to feed on her, and this helps my point, even while already weakened,he would have EASILY killed her, but his starvation forced him to try and Force Kill her, and it backfired, which weakened him further. Point? The fact is the exile is nothing special and so is nihilus, what indicates he would have killed her easily?
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

2. Feats>Speculation, Revan was more knowledgable, sure, but Nihilus has by far the better feats of Force power. He is also stronger in the Dark Side. knowledge = power, Sidious mastered every technique and along with that his connection to the force hence he is dubbed "The most powerful sith lord in history"

Prove nihilus is stronger in the dark side seeing that the only thing he ever does is drain and TK as opposed to revan who could use dark side energies from dark side empowered worlds to corrupt jedi and turn him to his side
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

3. Well, I don't know if weak minded would be the right word, more like people who have no experience with Force users. But it still helps the point that he speaks to do it. Sorry, obi wan states the force effects the weak minded greatly
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

4. Faulty logic. How the hell was the Exile supposed to know Nihilus kept it together? She never has seen Nihilus or his ship, and Visas either didn't tell her or she had no clue herself, due to being blind. Again prove to me that its nihilus will who kept the ship together seeing that after he dies, the ship stays intact.

Faulty logic? Hell yea you have
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

5. And the Exile is no longer an average Jedi.
Prove it


Inferior? What makes you call them inferior? Vrook wielded the Ataru, Shien, Niman, and Juyo saber forms,
Prove that knowing many forms equates you to a powerful force user. Right cin drallig and kasim mastered every lightsaber form to its highest degree and guess what happens in the end?

Cin gets tooled by anakin and kasim gets annihilated by bane.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope

and was skilled at using the advanced Force forms as well,
Gameplay mechanic, any source to back this up? No, other than non-canon gameplay



Originally posted by Violent2Dope

and was different among most Jedi in that he masters Force Lightning.
Lol? A jedi mastered dark side force lightning? LOL back up your claims

Originally posted by Violent2Dope

Zez-Kai-Ell used a dual bladed saber,
So? Using a dual bladed saber doesnt mean shit, vader still could contend with the reborn darth maul in a pure saber duel. Just because you wield a double bladed lightsaber, it doesnt mean shit

Originally posted by Violent2Dope

and used Ataru, Juyo, Shien, and Niman, and mastered advanced Force forms.
Again that doesnt mean shit when he hasnt done anything remarkable with lightsaber dueling and the force, theres nothing to even indicate he is at the least an above average force user
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

Kavar fought with two sabers(Jar'Kai), one was normal, the other short, and used Niman, Ataru, Juyo, and Shien, and also mastered advanced Force forms,
Again so what? Anakin as of AOTC used jar kai against count dooku and gets owned again.




Originally posted by Violent2Dope

and was so skilled at Force Stun he could use it on multiple opponents.
And exar kun could stun hundreds and thousands of senators on coruscant during the sith war, stunning people doesnt mean shit

Originally posted by Violent2Dope

He was a famed Jedi Guardian,
So? Doesnt mean he is a strong force user

Originally posted by Violent2Dope

and the Mandalorians thot he would have been the one to lead the Jedi to war. Out of the 4 Jedi you are talking about, only Drallig and Keto are even worth 2 shits, the other were fodder for Vader. Serra keto is nothing but a piece of shit whom vader annihilates her when he brought down a pillar on her. Just to remind you the average force users of the PT era > kotor era.

Bulter swan, sialan wezz them selves were able to participate and survive the ravaging clone wars whom is even more dangerous and lethel than what the jedi civil war was like. They were generals on the battle field.

Oh and to back that up, other than PT jedi >>> kotor jedi, Sidious states in RODV that in the order of tens and thousands of jedi during the PT, Most of them are not even half as powerful as suited vader save for mace and yoda who surpasses him
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

6. Stop twisting my words. I never said Exile>Vader, and Exile is much weaker than Nihilus as well. Nihilus was doubly weakened, and fought three people, was winning half the fight, til he eventually fell.
Visas merely says "hes too strog", that doesnt mean they were losing the fight


Originally posted by Violent2Dope

8. I actually was just taking that from the Nihilus respect thread, which happened to be made by Nik. Which darth sexy had the liberty of shredding it to pieces

EDIT

How was exile suppose to know the ship was held together? Tobin mentions it

Originally posted by Manslayer
Lol not an insult when its a fact.

Ill stop here

@ To forum users, stay away from Csdabest, he just admitted he loves me and wants to bang me in the ass, how cute. Sorry but I'm heterosexual, not bi or homo.

I like girls, not guys, sorry csdabest lol

sephiroth wins

Originally posted by Lord Prime
sephiroth wins Obvious for a ff7 fanboy to say. I can rip that to pieces but i choose not to

Don't go around saying he's a fanboy.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Obvious for a ff7 fanboy to say. I can rip that to pieces but i choose not to

Just like your a SW fanboy?

And i'm a KH fan

And V2D's a Ganon fanboy

What's your point? all fans of something, damn proud of it too.


So if you can, do it, if not, shut up and stop bashing other people

Originally posted by Remindme
Just like your a SW fanboy?

And i'm a KH fan

And V2D's a Ganon fanboy

What's your point? all fans of something, damn proud of it too.


So if you can, do it, if not, shut up and stop bashing other people

i cant belive it man!! you missed out me being a Kain fanboy.... crybaby

Originally posted by Manslayer
Obvious for a ff7 fanboy to say. I can rip that to pieces but i choose not to Too bad you are the one looking stupid as Seph does win this.

Just like your a SW fanboy?

And i'm a KH fan

And V2D's a Ganon fanboy

And BT's a Kain fanboy

What's your point? all fans of something, damn proud of it too.


So if you can, do it, if not, shut up and stop bashing other people

Originally posted by Burning thought
i cant belive it man!! you missed out me being a Kain fanboy.... crybaby

OMG!!! Sorry

and Burning thought is the Kain fanboy hug

yay

i did it already!!!

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
i did it already!!!

you missed yourself

Sol Valentine is a Ninety-Nine Nights fanboy

I'm also a Pyron and Darth Nihilus fanboy.

Originally posted by Remindme
you missed yourself

Sol Valentine is a Ninety-Nine Nights fanboy

Ninety-Nine Nights, Bleach, Elfen Lied, Tekken, Lynx Legends fanboy.

LOL.

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
Just like your a SW fanboy?

And i'm a KH fan

And V2D's a Ganon fanboy

And BT's a Kain fanboy

What's your point? all fans of something, damn proud of it too.


So if you can, do it, if not, shut up and stop bashing other people Whats my point? Fan boys dont debate with logic or common sense and claiming one party wins without proving up or even stating why.

Its that way in the SWV, If you claim one party wins without stating why or proving up and retort to fanboyism, you dont get taken seriously and may get bashed, When i argue, i back them up

So if you debate without blatant fanboyism, do it, if not, shut up and stop bashing other people

Fans and fanboys are 2 different things. Common sense will tell you that unless you lack it

Originally posted by Manslayer
Whats my point? Fan boys dont debate with logic or common sense and claiming one party wins without proving up or even stating why.

Its that way in the SWV, If you claim one party wins without stating why or proving up and retort to fanboyism, you dont get taken seriously and may get bashed, When i argue, i back them up

So if you debate without blatant fanboyism, do it, if not, shut up and stop bashing other people

Fans and fanboys are 2 different things. Common sense will tell you that unless you lack it

i would like to play a game, there is a slow acting poison coursing through your system, which only i have the antidote for, will you stop cursing and using the intellect of a fish to save your own life?

GAME OVER!!

Originally posted by Burning thought
i would like to play a game, there is a slow acting poison coursing through your system, which only i have the antidote for, will you stop cursing and using the intellect of a fish to save your own life?

GAME OVER!! Your point? Or do you want to go through this irrelevant useless rant

Originally posted by Manslayer
Your point? Or do you want to go through this irrelevant useless rant

can i phone a friend?

Originally posted by Burning thought
can i phone a friend? Your not my dog/slave/servant so you can do as you please

Hell you can flame me all you want too for that matter, ill just report you ^_~

Originally posted by Manslayer
Whats my point? Fan boys dont debate with logic or common sense and claiming one party wins without proving up or even stating why.

Its that way in the SWV, If you claim one party wins without stating why or proving up and retort to fanboyism, you dont get taken seriously and may get bashed, When i argue, i back them up

So if you debate without blatant fanboyism, do it, if not, shut up and stop bashing other people

Fans and fanboys are 2 different things. Common sense will tell you that unless you lack it

I see, and thats gives you an excuse to go around calling people fanboys

How many times have i been in a thread and posted an answer without reasons?

loads, why?

Because if you in the thread, one assumes you know the powers of each side, thus don't always HAVE to post as to why.

If someone disagree's sure i go back and post why, but that doesn't mean on the first post i have to post every tiny detail of their victory.

Plus are you forgetting 90% of the people here agree Sephiroth owns Sion?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Your not my dog/slave/servant so you can do as you please

Hell you can flame me all you want too for that matter, ill just report you ^_~

why would i flame you dear dawson, would you flame me? that wouldnt be nice at all

Did i hint that i was going to flame you? Awwww no. I said you can flame me, but ill just report that

Some advice for you: Shut up

Originally posted by Manslayer
Did i hint that i was going to flame you? Awwww no. I said you can flame me, but ill just report that

Some advice for you: Shut up so this racket can be gone with

shut up?....your mind tricks do not work on me young jedi

Originally posted by Remindme
I see, and thats gives you an excuse to go around calling people fanboys No, its common sense and its a fact
Originally posted by Remindme

How many times have i been in a thread and posted an answer without reasons? Everytime seeing that you know shit about star wars character


Originally posted by Remindme

Because if you in the thread, one assumes you know the powers of each side, thus don't always HAVE to post as to why. Not in this case
Originally posted by Remindme

If someone disagree's sure i go back and post why, but that doesn't mean on the first post i have to post every tiny detail of their victory. They do, so if 99 people says a chocobo can ass rape sin does it mean its true?v Does it mean they dont have to say why?
Originally posted by Remindme

Plus are you forgetting 90% of the people here agree Sephiroth owns Sion? Plus you forget i was the one who agreed sephiroth can rape sion, You also seem to forget out of all those who picked sephiroth, None stated other wise seeing that a lightsaber can destroy his masamune

Originally posted by Burning thought
shut up?....your mind tricks do not work on me young jedi Lol is that suppose to be funny? I think its time you stop typing, when you type you embarrass no body but yourself

Originally posted by Manslayer
Lol is that suppose to be funny? I think its time you stop typing, when you type you embarrass no body but yourself

nope, you need to learn more young padawan, still not working

Originally posted by Burning thought
nope, you need to learn more young padawan, still not working I think you need to learn how to stop embarrassing yourself


Originally posted by Remindme
I see, and thats gives you an excuse to go around calling people fanboys No, its common sense and its a fact
Originally posted by Remindme

How many times have i been in a thread and posted an answer without reasons? Everytime seeing that you know shit about star wars character


Originally posted by Remindme

Because if you in the thread, one assumes you know the powers of each side, thus don't always HAVE to post as to why. Not in this case
Originally posted by Remindme

If someone disagree's sure i go back and post why, but that doesn't mean on the first post i have to post every tiny detail of their victory. They do, so if 99 people says a chocobo can ass rape sin does it mean its true?v Does

If you can't debate without resorting to hostility, then leave the thread.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Manslayer
No, its common sense and its a fact

Lots of things are facts, but that doesn't mean you have to go out and say them, does it? Thats just inconsiderate

Originally posted by Manslayer
Everytime seeing that you know shit about star wars character

So? I have to common sense to look things up or ask other people

Originally posted by Manslayer
Not in this case

Well in this case the debate is over and done with...so...he doesn't need to post why

Originally posted by Manslayer
They do, so if 99 people says a chocobo can ass rape sin does it mean its true?v Does

Of course not.

So how many times have you seen that?

Personally i never have never seen it

Originally posted by Remindme
Lots of things are facts, but that doesn't mean you have to go out and say them, does it? Thats just inconsiderate
Uh yes you do

Originally posted by Remindme

So? I have to common sense to look things up or ask other people
But you dont have the commen sense to check weather its genuine, as i destroyed v2k's posts


Well in this case the debate is over and done with...so...he doesn't need to post why




Originally posted by Remindme

So how many times have you seen that? In this forum, always

Personally i never have never seen it

Who says the debate is over?

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
Who says the debate is over?

Me when I decide a thread needs to be closed.

Nobody else.

besides Lana.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Uh yes you do

This gave me a nice insight into your personallity, consider yourself ignored

Originally posted by Remindme
This gave me a nice insight into your personallity, consider yourself ignored You attacked me without cause and i merely replied to your nonsensical posts

You replied in a very hostile way.

Thats simply because i didnt like what he said

Well you have to deal with it in a civil manner.

Fine by me then, i apologise.

As i said sephiroth wins this seeing sion is nothing but fodder

Even without "invulnerability" Darth Sion would be able to take Sephiroth down.

No he wouldn't.

He is slower.

He is weaker.

He is less skilled.

Sion is pathetic really.