Thanos versus Darkseid in Pure Slugfest Battle

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masterbruce
They fight in an adamantium cube with dimensions of 50 x 50 x 50 feet.

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/8000/7607/178257-thanos_400.jpg vs http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/3000/2349/159713-darkseid_400.jpg

Priest
Thanos

King Kandy
Thanos can win if it's just a Slugfest... His endurance is much greater.

TricksterPriest
No amping or amping?

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
No amping or amping? Thanos.

masterbruce
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
No amping or amping? I'll allow amping since it seems onesided in favor of Thanos without

King Kandy
So? They can both amp their strength.

guy222
thanos ftw

Soljer
Originally posted by King Kandy
So? They can both amp their strength.

Indeed.

And even the likes of Odin considers Thanos' reserve of power to be nigh-limitless.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Soljer
Indeed.

And even the likes of Odin considers Thanos' reserve of power to be nigh-limitless.
And high father's staff has made him virtualy omnipotent. Lotta good that did him against DS.

Desaad
Thanos, definitely.

batdude123
In a purely physical encounter, Thanos would win.

nvrbeenwthagirl
HAs ever lost in hand to hand to anyone other than Superman? The doomsday thing is suspect to me becuz of the way that fight went down. Just wanting to know if DS has ever truly lost in hand to hand to anyone other than superman.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
HAs ever lost in hand to hand to anyone other than Superman? The doomsday thing is suspect to me becuz of the way that fight went down. Just wanting to know if DS has ever truly lost in hand to hand to anyone other than superman. Has Thanos, when he was full power?

Off teh top of my head, got barely edged out by Magus, and his only time getting KO'ed was against teh SG.

Soljer
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Just wanting to know if DS has ever truly lost in hand to hand to anyone other than superman.

Doomsday.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Soljer
Doomsday. That is suspect, becuz DS never fought DD hand to hand. He used the omega beams instead of the OE like and idiot. And still, had time to do a freaking monologue before He got speed blitzed from behind.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by masterbruce
I'll allow amping since it seems onesided in favor of Thanos without
actually no

Darkseid is way stronger then thanos

Thanos amps more then darkseid thou

And thanos < Ds is durablility

Im not sure

How big of a hit can thanos take....

rico777
Originally posted by batdude123
In a purely physical encounter, Thanos would win.

i concur

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
actually no

Darkseid is way stronger then thanos

Thanos amps more then darkseid thou

And thanos < Ds is durablility

Im not sure

How big of a hit can thanos take.... no expression

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That is suspect, becuz DS never fought DD hand to hand. He used the omega beams instead of the OE like and idiot. And still, had time to do a freaking monologue before He got speed blitzed from behind. Problem...
DS's Omega Effect/Beams is his most powerful attack...

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
actually no

Darkseid is way stronger then thanos

Thanos amps more then darkseid thou

And thanos < Ds is durablility

Im not sure

How big of a hit can thanos take....
I don't think DS is as durable as Thanos. DS does have some uber durability to energy attacks. But he doesn't do well against above the top tier strength coupled with super speed. Well hmm, thanos doesn't have super speed. At base line, I'd say DS maybe far stronger than Thanos but Thanos amps easily and quite fast. he does it so much, one wouldn't even know what his true base strength is.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
no expression

Problem...
DS's Omega Effect/Beams is his most powerful attack...

omega beam =/= omega effect

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
no expression

Problem...
DS's Omega Effect/Beams is his most powerful attack...

You do realize the Omega Beams are NOT his most powerful attack. the Omega effect is. As I said, he shot the beams like and idiot. Not the effect. He could have simply changed doomsday into a child, wiped him away, or sent him into the void.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I don't think DS is as durable as Thanos. DS does have some uber durability to energy attacks. But he doesn't do well against above the top tier strength coupled with super speed. Well hmm, thanos doesn't have super speed. At base line, I'd say DS maybe far stronger than Thanos but Thanos amps easily and quite fast. he does it so much, one wouldn't even know what his true base strength is. How do you know he amps?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
How do you know he amps?

WHo Thanos? He always has glowie hands. And he obviously had it when he challenged Odin to a strength contest when they locked on the gungi thingy. Unless thanos is only class 80 or so. I'd like to think Odin was ampling himself when he made the comment about thanos own dark reserve.

Harry Fingerman
Glowy hands means he hits harder. I've never seen it referenced that he got stronger while doing this, or more durable.

The only time I've actually seen him seemingly amp his whole power, was when he fought his more powerful clone.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You do realize the Omega Beams are NOT his most powerful attack. the Omega effect is. As I said, he shot the beams like and idiot. Not the effect. He could have simply changed doomsday into a child, wiped him away, or sent him into the void. However, that's completely irrelevant.

Since, his beams are more powerful than his skillz in teh h2h.

So, he would have done more damage with his beams than his strength.

He would have lost even worse if he would have fought h2h at the start.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Glowy hands means he hits harder. I've never seen it referenced that he got stronger while doing this, or more durable.

The only time I've actually seen him seemingly amp his whole power, was when he fought his more powerful clone.

However, that's completely irrelevant.

Since, his beams are more powerful than his skillz in teh h2h.

So, he would have done more damage with his beams than his strength.

He would have lost even worse if he would have fought h2h at the start.

Not when he's been shown to be superior at hand to hand most other times. I'd also like to point to the fact that Doomsday is KNOWN for adapting and over coming energy attacks. But still known to get his ass kicked by good ole fashioned fist. Which is why that entire story fails on so many lvls.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Not when he's been shown to be superior at hand to hand most other times. I'd also like to point to the fact that Doomsday is KNOWN for adapting and over coming energy attacks. But still known to get his ass kicked by good ole fashioned fist. Which is why that entire story fails on so many lvls. Are you implying DS's h2h skillz r better than his beams?

Doomsday's been put down about... 2 times by teh fist.
Doomsday has been put down, about 3 times by teh beams.

Off the top of my head of course, I'll name them.

Fist #1: His first fight with Superman.
Fist #2: PC Supes, and PC Supes, caught him off guard, and took him down.

Beams #1: A Guardian killed himself, and Doomsday.
Beams #2: Radiant took down Doomy.
Beams #3: The Aegis armor easily beat Doomsday.

Well, it would seem that beams have been the better option, now, wouldn't it?

While Doomsday has adapted to both of them, he's been put down more by the good ol' fashioned beams.

*Tee Hee*

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You do realize the Omega Beams are NOT his most powerful attack. the Omega effect is. As I said, he shot the beams like and idiot. Not the effect. He could have simply changed doomsday into a child, wiped him away, or sent him into the void.
According to Darkseid himself, the Omega FORCE is his most powerful attack...
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/796/jla18507da6.th.jpg

Just thought I'd point that out...


Anyway, h2h Thanos takes it.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
According to Darkseid himself, the Omega FORCE is his most powerful attack...
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/796/jla18507da6.th.jpg

Just thought I'd point that out...


Anyway, h2h Thanos takes it. Omega force is not the Omega beams. The omega force comes from his hands. And he says they are the prime power. I don't know if that means the most powerful attack.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Omega force is not the Omega beams. The omega force comes from his hands. messed

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Omega force is not the Omega beams. The omega force comes from his hands.
I didn't say anything about the Omega Beams, I said that according to DS the Omega Force is his most powerful attack.

Estacado
The Omega Force made Uxas into Darkseid IIRC.

Soljer
Silly Goober, didn't you know? Nvr knows WAY more about Darkseid than Darkseid does.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Soljer
Silly Goober, didn't you know? Nvr knows WAY more about Darkseid than Darkseid does.
Your point. The point is DS didn't use the OE nor the OF on DD. dumb shit writing.

TricksterPriest
The Omega Force is his energy source. It powers everything else. So yes, it's his most powerful attack, because it's all his attacks. stick out tongue Nvr is correct in that his most powerful attack is the Omega Effect.

Thanos takes this 6/10 narrowly.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Your point. The point is DS didn't use the OE nor the OF on DD. dumb shit writing. Because he thought that DD wouldn't have survived the beams... duh!
He even said this on-panel.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The Omega Force is his energy source. It powers everything else. So yes, it's his most powerful attack, because it's all his attacks. stick out tongue Nvr is correct in that his most powerful attack is the Omega Effect.

Thanos takes this 6/10 narrowly.
So you're saying that Firestorm deflected the totality of DS's power? Because Firestorm dealt with the Omega Force...

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by darthgoober
So you're saying that Firestorm deflected the totality of DS's power? Because Firestorm dealt with the Omega Force... PC Darkseid's, no less.

Bad Ash231
Thanos.

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by darthgoober
So you're saying that Firestorm deflected the totality of DS's power? Because Firestorm dealt with the Omega Force...

Totality? There's no indication it was anything other than pure Omega Force energy. Which is still very impressive. A good sized blast of it? Yep. All of it? No evidence.

I have no shame in admitting that Firestorm did that. He's an amazing energy/matter manipulator. And he's also the only one to ever manipulate the Omega Force.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I have no shame in admitting that Firestorm did that. He's an amazing energy/matter manipulator. And he's also the only one to ever manipulate the Omega Force. He's also the only one who has tried.

Also, he didn't manipulate it. He made a construct that redirected it.
It really doesn't give me the indication that any good GL couldn't do the same.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
He's also the only one who has tried.

Also, he didn't manipulate it. He made a construct that redirected it.
It really doesn't give me the indication that any good GL couldn't do the same.
Wasn't that constuct made of inertron? Gl's can't make that.

Sirius77
I do think that Thanos takes this quite narrowly, but
I don't think that a GL can manipulate the OF. If that
was the case, the Highfather would have done so
himself in his fights with DS.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Wasn't that constuct made of inertron? Gl's can't make that. Me no rmmbr.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Totality? There's no indication it was anything other than pure Omega Force energy. Which is still very impressive. A good sized blast of it? Yep. All of it? No evidence.

I have no shame in admitting that Firestorm did that. He's an amazing energy/matter manipulator. And he's also the only one to ever manipulate the Omega Force.
Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
He's also the only one who has tried.

Also, he didn't manipulate it. He made a construct that redirected it.
It really doesn't give me the indication that any good GL couldn't do the same.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Wasn't that constuct made of inertron? Gl's can't make that.
I don't think they ever mentioned what it was made out of. I'm pretty sure Firestorm just said that he was restructuring the air molecules to make that thing.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober


Reaching. Since the feat was Never repeated. PIS. And it matters not, PC firestorm doesn't exist any long and niether does the feat.

Harry Fingerman
I'm just going to steal Galan's scan...
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs10-1.jpg

Certainly no GL could ever do that... roll eyes (sarcastic)

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Reaching. Since the feat was Never repeated. PIS. And it matters not, PC firestorm doesn't exist any long and niether does the feat.
The feat was never attempted again so there's nothing to contradict the showing. It would be one thing if someone tried something similar and failed, but to my knowledge that's never happened.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And it matters not, PC firestorm doesn't exist any long and niether does the feat. Horrible logic...
It happened to PC Darkseid, and he's the same as today, so actually, the feat does exist. smile

Soljer
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Reaching. Since the feat was Never repeated. PIS. And it matters not, PC firestorm doesn't exist any long and niether does the feat.
"I don't like it, it didn't happen."

Gecko4lif
Back to the matter at hand

Ds> thanos is strngth
Thanos > ds in durability


which one goes down first

Priest
Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
I'm just going to steal Galan's scan...
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs10-1.jpg

Certainly no GL could ever do that... roll eyes (sarcastic)
shit Surfer can do that smile

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Back to the matter at hand

Ds> thanos is strngth
Thanos > ds in durability


which one goes down first
What makes you think that DS>Thanos in strength?

Priest
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Back to the matter at hand

Ds> thanos is strngth
Thanos > ds in durability


which one goes down first
Thanos is stronger than DS.
Oh and Thanos is a better fighter yes

Priest
Originally posted by darthgoober
What makes you think that DS>Thanos in strength?
wishful thinking ? confused

Bad Ash231
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/seidsetepsavbove.png

ninjafist

starking
What are Thanos best h2h feats?

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by darthgoober
What makes you think that DS>Thanos in strength?
powerscaling

Superman is stronger then almost anybody in the marvelverse
Darkseid is stronger then supes

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
powerscaling

Superman is stronger then almost anybody in the marvelverse
Darkseid is stronger then supes no expression

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
no expression
cool

masterbruce
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
powerscaling

Superman is stronger then almost anybody in the marvelverse
Darkseid is stronger then supes While Superman is stronger than most of Marvel, Darkseid ISN'T stronger than Superman no expression

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And it matters not, PC firestorm doesn't exist any long and niether does the feat. Pre-Crisis Firestorm?

As far as I know, FS taps his powers from a completely different plane of reality, .


Thus,

The only way to have 'altered' FS himself, is to have somehow affected the Matrix -- Have you evidence that the Matrix was mucked with during the Crisis?



And FYI,

That feat is still canonical to Darky. wink

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
Pre-Crisis Firestorm?

As far as I know, FS taps his powers from a completely different plane of reality, .


Thus,

The only way to have 'altered' FS himself, is to have somehow affected the Matrix -- Have you evidence that the Matrix was mucked with during the Crisis?



And FYI,

That feat is still canonical to Darky. wink

Then DS in true form can still lay a smack down to the likes of PC superman. Which means he is Thanos's Superior. Going by averages, DS is leagues above thanos in strength, if we are using PC feats.

Bad Ash231
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then DS in true form can still lay a smack down to the likes of PC superman. Which means he is Thanos's Superior. Going by averages, DS is leagues above thanos in strength, if we are using PC feats.

ermmgay

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
ermmgay
Do you think Thanos in any version could ever lay a smack down on PC superman in one or two hits with no amping? Nope neither do I.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then DS in true form can still lay a smack down to the likes of PC superman. Which means he is Thanos's Superior. Going by averages, DS is leagues above thanos in strength, if we are using PC feats. You didn't answer my question. ermmhappy

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
You didn't answer my question. ermmhappy

I dont' even know if there was a concept of Firestorm matrix in the pre crisis days. But since the NEW FS seems more powerful than even the old, and got pwned with a reach, I'd say that the matrix is different somehow. Do I have evidence, no. But thier encounters just seem vastly differnt.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then DS in true form can still lay a smack down to the likes of PC superman. Which means he is Thanos's Superior. Going by averages, DS is leagues above thanos in strength, if we are using PC feats.
When has DS ever beaten on Pre Crisis Supes physically?

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
powerscaling

Superman is stronger then almost anybody in the marvelverse
Darkseid is stronger then supes
Just a couple of things wrong with that. See Supes isn't THAT far behind DS physically, Hell a case could even be made of their being right on par with each other in that department. Thanos on the other hand, has always been shown to be league's ahead of Thor strength wise. Thanos was actually manhandling Thor way back in the day, and Thanos has since had two major upgrades since then. Supes may be stronger than Thor, but it's not by THAT much so I fail to see an actual indication of DS being stronger than Thanos.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
When has DS ever beaten on Pre Crisis Supes physically?
I posted a scan or two in the match. he basically bitched supers with like one or two punches.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Just a couple of things wrong with that. See Supes isn't THAT far behind DS physically, Hell a case could even be made of their being right on par with each other in that department. Thanos on the other hand, has always been shown to be league's ahead of Thor strength wise. Thanos was actually manhandling Thor way back in the day, and Thanos has since had two major upgrades since then. Supes may be stronger than Thor, but it's not by THAT much so I fail to see an actual indication of DS being stronger than Thanos.

Dan Jurgens, the writer of Hunter prey, says that Superman is Millions of times more powerful than thor. So you know what he thinks about Doomsday's strength lvl, and Also DS. Puts things in perspective doesn't it.

Rorschach
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
powerscaling

Superman is stronger then almost anybody in the marvelverse
Darkseid is stronger then supes

There are several characters in Marvel who are physically superior to Superman.

Thanos and Mangog are just two examples.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Rorschach
There are several characters in Marvel who are physically superior to Superman.

Thanos and Mangog are just two examples.

I Don't think so. mangog yes. Thanos. no. On par with. Maybe slightly on the average. But superman has the far superior feats between thanos and he.

Rorschach

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by darthgoober
Just a couple of things wrong with that. See Supes isn't THAT far behind DS physically
Actually he is. Consider this. If you were 6 inches tall instead of 60 feet could you lift even 1/100th of the things you normally could? I rest my case.


The problem with that is that A writer ho has written BOTH characters stated that superman was millions of time stronger then thor. All of this while thanos is consistently only about 3-7 times stronger.


See above ^^^^^^^^^^^

Hyperion 07
Originally posted by masterbruce
While Superman is stronger than most of Marvel, Darkseid ISN'T stronger than Superman no expression Yes he is. raver

Rorschach

vlaaad12345
Thor wasnt shown to be supes physical equal...he got beat...and supes has been getting alot stronger since then.

Rorschach

vlaaad12345

Rorschach

Erik-Lensherr
"He ..may be .. single toughest oponnent ... I've ever"

He may be , not that he is .

And I don't exactly take that as granted .

But as somebody already said, Superman has gotten a lot stronger since then .

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/SupermanThor.jpg

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I dont' even know if there was a concept of Firestorm matrix in the pre crisis days. There was... It just didn't play as big of a role in the story, as it does now.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But since the NEW FS seems more powerful than even the old, and got pwned with a reach, The most impressive thing about the 'Darkseid incident' was Darky's ability to pull the Professor out of the Matrix...

FS was far from 'pwned' imo, . smile

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I'd say that the matrix is different somehow. The only 'difference' is that the FS-Matrix is seen more often nowadays, and plays a bigger role in Firestorm's life.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
There was... It just didn't play as big of a role in the story, as it does now.

The most impressive thing about the 'Darkseid incident' was Darky's ability to pull the Professor out of the Matrix...

FS was far from 'pwned' imo, . smile

The only 'difference' is that the FS-Matrix is seen more often nowadays, and plays a bigger role in Firestorm's life.

I'd like to point out that the atomic thingy that the old firestorm did is the same thing the element people did to make inertron if my memory serves me. There is nothing that can destroy it correct?

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There is nothing that can destroy it correct? Destroy what?

Gecko4lif

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
Destroy what? Inertron. Didn't firestorm inadvertantly create inertron? It's the same manner that the elementals in LOS created the indestructible substance right?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
that isnt really a good feat becausewhat can we say about it?

The snake "looked" heavy?

There is nothing to compare it to really

The Snake doesn't look nearly as hard to pull as turning the wheels of maggeddon if you ask me. Or holding a black hole in your hand. A black hole could easily destroy the planet. The force of it's pull would be far more than some sname around the planet causing a few geological tremors here and there.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's the same manner that the elementals in LOS created the indestructible substance right? Pretty much.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
Pretty much.

That is what I was trying to say. Nothing can destroy inertron. So Firestorm creating that construct, I think was the very first instance of what would later be known as inertron. Hell he used the same method to trap Thor EASILY in JLA avengers.

Ouallada
Jormungandr was large enough that it would encircle the Earth, according to Norse legends, which Marvel based its version on. That is plenty enough to make a good extrapolation.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Ouallada
Jormungandr was large enough that it would encircle the Earth, according to Norse legends, which Marvel based its version on. That is plenty enough to make a good extrapolation.

doesn't tell us how much force the snake was using. How much it weighted. We'd have to do a lot of calculating to come up with a wieght. But I can almost bet superman has moved more weight than that. Just look at the earth towing incident for reference.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That is what I was trying to say. Nothing can destroy inertron. So Firestorm creating that construct, I think was the very first instance of what would later be known as inertron. Hell he used the same method to trap Thor EASILY in JLA avengers. The thing about the feats you just listed, is there was no use of the word inertron.


Thus,

We can't label his constructs as inertron in those instances.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
The thing about the feats you just listed, is there was no use of the word inertron.


Thus,

We can't label his constructs as inertron in those instances.

But it is the exact same manner in which the substance inertron is created by jan's people. A rose by any other name is still a rose. It takes high tier matter manip to make it. and then you have to know how to make it. So it is just funny that people say a good Gl or surfer could make it.

Ouallada
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
doesn't tell us how much force the snake was using. How much it weighted. We'd have to do a lot of calculating to come up with a wieght. But I can almost bet superman has moved more weight than that. Just look at the earth towing incident for reference.

Enough to make it a strength feat in the high end of strength feats pretty easily.

I'm not saying Thor > SM, just refuting the claim that Thor lacks strength feats.

Larceny
Thanos wins this.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So it is just funny that people say a good Gl or surfer could make it. This was just their opinion.

Fact is, Firestorm is the only person I know of, to have manipulated the Omega Force to any degree -- So naturally, saying another character could have replicated that feat, is nothing but speculation.


One of the closest things I know of...

Ion II once made an over-exaggerated construct, exact same basic function as Firestorm's construct], to redirect Grayven's blast:


But even that feat was nowhere near what FS did.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
This was just their opinion.

Fact is, Firestorm is the only person I know of, to have manipulated the Omega Force to any degree -- So naturally, saying another character could have replicated that feat, is nothing but speculation.


One of the closest things I know of...

Ion II once made an over-exaggerated construct, exact same basic function as Firestorm's construct], to redirect Grayven's blast:


But even that feat was nowhere near what FS did.

Not in the least. becuz grayven has a limited Omega blast. And the OF is said to be one of Darky's stronest powers. Superman warned that anyone who got hit by it would instantly Die.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Not in the least. becuz grayven has a limited Omega blast. I know.

That was just the closest thing I could think of. lol

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And the OF is said to be one of Darky's stronest powers. Superman warned that anyone who got hit by it would instantly Die. The OF is Darkseid's most powerful attack, period.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
I know.

That was just the closest thing I could think of. lol

The OF is Darkseid's most powerful attack, period.

He NEVER USES IT. Hell he hardly ever even uses the OE any more. Just the Omega beams. He suffers from Writer malfunction more than Galactus does.

Accel
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Dan Jurgens, the writer of Hunter prey, says that Superman is Millions of times more powerful than thor. So you know what he thinks about Doomsday's strength lvl, and Also DS. Puts things in perspective doesn't it.
Jurgens later admitted that he was kidding about that. He even said that the original interviewer neglected to include the chuckle he gave after he made that comment, so every one took him seriously.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He NEVER USES IT. Hell he hardly ever even uses the OE any more. Just the Omega beams. He suffers from Writer malfunction more than Galactus does. Can you think of any other instances where he has used a pure Omega Force blast?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Accel
Jurgens later admitted that he was kidding about that. He even said that the original interviewer neglected to include the chuckle he gave after he made that comment, so every one took him seriously. In the same interview he says that no one could beat Doomsday becuz of his constantly evolving power.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
Can you think of any other instances where he has used a pure Omega Force blast?

To my knowlege there were three times. The once where firestorm deflected it, the one that bran posted, and the one where he used it to amp himself to beat the living shit outof highfather.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
To my knowlege there were three times. The once where firestorm deflected it, the one that bran posted, and the one where he used it to amp himself to beat the living shit outof highfather. I don't count the Highfather instance as a 'blast of pure OF'...

Repost the scan bran posted.... I must have missed it. embarrasment

Desaad
To be clear, the Omega Force is just the general name he gives to his beams. Its not the wipe out power, necessarily. He's called it the Omega Force numerous times when all it does is send people through time, or take away their powers, or whatever.

The Omega Force might just be concussive power, might be heat, might be teleportational in nature, might be whatever.

In this instance, it is clear that it wasn't the wipe outs since...well, those wipe you out. IT was most likely force, which he then follows up with the heat component of the beams.

Whatever it was, it wasn't his wipe outs.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Actually he is. Consider this. If you were 6 inches tall instead of 60 feet could you lift even 1/100th of the things you normally could? I rest my case.
That's more a matter of leverage than strength.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
The problem with that is that A writer ho has written BOTH characters stated that superman was millions of time stronger then thor. All of this while thanos is consistently only about 3-7 times stronger.
That same writer also said that both Supes and Doomsday were BOTH superior to DS physically, and Supes current strength FAR exceeds his strength at the time.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I posted a scan or two in the match. he basically bitched supers with like one or two punches.
Could you point me to the specific post in question, because I've been looking for an instance of DS beating down PC Supes for a while now and I've yet to see it.

Galan007
Originally posted by Desaad
To be clear, the Omega Force is just the general name he gives to his beams. Its not the wipe out power, necessarily. He's called it the Omega Force numerous times when all it does is send people through time, or take away their powers, or whatever.

The Omega Force might just be concussive power, might be heat, might be teleportational in nature, might be whatever.

In this instance, it is clear that it wasn't the wipe outs since...well, those wipe you out. IT was most likely force, which he then follows up with the heat component of the beams.

Whatever it was, it wasn't his wipe outs. So a general 'heat component' = the "prime power" of Darkseid = The OF = The blast FS redirected?

Please. srsly

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But it is the exact same manner in which the substance inertron is created by jan's people. A rose by any other name is still a rose. It takes high tier matter manip to make it. and then you have to know how to make it. So it is just funny that people say a good Gl or surfer could make it.
Surfer creates all of his objects the same way too(by converting either matter or energy into another form), so does that mean that we should assume that EVERYTHING he's ever created is composed of the same substances?

Desaad
Originally posted by Galan007
So a general 'heat component' = the "prime power" of Darkseid = The OF = The blast FS redirected?

Please. srsly

What? The Omega Force - the Force that Darkseid controls/wrested control of from his brother Drax - is a general term that refers to all the abilities he demonstrates that resulted from the Omega Force.

Now, the Omega beams allow him to control heat, concussive force, spatial teleportation, temporal teleportation, matter manipulation, power absorbion...and wipe outs.

The beams that he sent out against Doomsday clearly were not wipe outs. They didn't destroy his body, and Darkseid didn't show any surprise as to their inability to destroy Doomsdays body. He then goes on to use the heat component of the beams to great a molten grave for the creature.

This is all in keeping with the original scan - that the Omega Force is the prime power of Darkseid, from which all the other powers are manifested - which, by the way, is of dubious continuity (due to its relation to Return of the New Gods, which has definitely been wiped out).

Galan007
Originally posted by Desaad
What? The Omega Force - the Force that Darkseid controls/wrested control of from his brother Drax - is a general term that refers to all the abilities he demonstrates that resulted from the Omega Force.

Now, the Omega beams allow him to control heat, concussive force, spatial teleportation, temporal teleportation, matter manipulation, power absorbion...and wipe outs.

The beams that he sent out against Doomsday clearly were not wipe outs. They didn't destroy his body, and Darkseid didn't show any surprise as to their inability to destroy Doomsdays body. He then goes on to use the heat component of the beams to great a molten grave for the creature.

This is all in keeping with the original scan - that the Omega Force is the prime power of Darkseid, from which all the other powers are manifested - which, by the way, is of dubious continuity (due to its relation to Return of the New Gods, which has definitely been wiped out). I thought you were trying to downplay Firestorm's redirecting of the OF, into a lesser feat...

It seems you weren't -- Cool beans. big grin

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by darthgoober

That same writer also said that both Supes and Doomsday were BOTH superior to DS physically, and Supes current strength FAR exceeds his strength at the time.
shit your right.. he doesnt know what he is talking about



Right... SO if you were pulling 100 tons (your max at 60 lets say) directly up you would beable to pull it at 6 inches....

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Right... SO if you were pulling 100 tons (your max at 60 lets say) directly up you would beable to pull it at 6 inches....
Huh?

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by darthgoober
Huh?
You said it was leverage

And i am saying if the leverage was exactly the same would you be able to pull it.
The answer is not because your smaller muscles produce proportionally less force

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
You said it was leverage

And i am saying if the leverage was exactly the same would you be able to pull it.
The answer is not because your smaller muscles produce proportionally less force
Pulling and lifting are two different things. But let's say that you have two people who's lifting capacity max out at 200 pounds and one of them is 6 foot tall while the other is 6 inches tall. If you give them both identical boxes that are large and weigh 200 pounds, then yes the larger person will have an easier time lifting the box because the size of the boxes will be far more unwieldy for the 6 inch person.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by darthgoober
Pulling and lifting are two different things. But let's say that you have two people who's lifting capacity max out at 200 pounds and one of them is 6 foot tall while the other is 6 inches tall. If you give them both identical boxes that are large and weigh 200 pounds, then yes the larger person will have an easier time lifting the box because the size of the boxes will be far more unwieldy for the 6 inch person.
But that is assuming they can lift the same thing

What i am saying is that they CANT

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
But that is assuming they can lift the same thing

What i am saying is that they CANT
Ok now prove that statement. Where has it been said that DS is physically stronger when he's not in his smaller Boomtubed form. For that matter, point me to the part where the thread started said that we're debating a 400 foot DS...

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok now prove that statement. Where has it been said that DS is physically stronger when he's not in his smaller Boomtubed form. For that matter, point me to the part where the thread started said that we're debating a 400 foot DS...

I just proved it

Ds's power isnt more concentrated in his smaller form it is lowered

why do you think he loses to superman but stalemates/beats highfather?


And i reread the first post..... we arent debating the big one embarrasment

But the small one is still stronger so it doesnt matter

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
I just proved it

Ds's power isnt more concentrated in his smaller form it is lowered

why do you think he loses to superman but stalemates/beats highfather?
Where has the decrease in power been established again?

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
And i reread the first post..... we arent debating the big one embarrasment

But the small one is still stronger so it doesnt matter
Ok now back your claim up. What indication do you have that DS's reduced form is stronger than Thanos?

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by darthgoober
Where has the decrease in power been established again?

In powerscaling (try to keep up)


The fact that he is pretty consistently stronger then supes (but still loses somehow...hmm..)

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
In powerscaling (try to keep up)
Ah...you mean speculation wink .


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
The fact that he is pretty consistently stronger then supes (but still loses somehow...hmm..)
Where are these consistent showings of strength, because for the past 20 years or so they've been portrayed as being right on par strength wise.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ah...you mean speculation wink .


No i mean powerscaling


In every comic

ds is superior but supes wins in the end cuz he is good.

It is the same plot everytime

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
No i mean powerscaling
And in what issue did they say that DS's overall power is scaled down along with his size?


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
In every comic

ds is superior but supes wins in the end cuz he is good.

It is the same plot everytime
I've seen most of DS's confrontations with Supes, and in none of them have I seen a clear indication of DS being out of Supes league in the strength department. You have a scan or issue number to back that up with?

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by darthgoober
And in what issue did they say that DS's overall power is scaled down along with his size?

If superman started flying would they have to tell you he is flying? No because you can see it for yourself. Same here



SO pimp slapping supes almost unconscience and beating him into amnesia dont count all of a sudden?

darthgoober
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
If superman started flying would they have to tell you he is flying? No because you can see it for yourself. Same here
Well then SHOW the demonstration. At this point you're just ASSUMING that DS's power drops, but I've never seen that actually indicated. And a better comparison would be you saying that a character is capable of lightspeed flight even though he's never actually shown the ability to hit that speed.



Originally posted by Gecko4lif
SO pimp slapping supes almost unconscience and beating him into amnesia dont count all of a sudden?
Again, a scan or issue number please. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, I'd just like to see the instance for myself rather than take possible "forum talk" at face value.

Harry Fingerman
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not saying that it didn't happen, I'd just like to see the instance for myself rather than take possible "forum talk" at face value. Forum talk sucks anus... really, it sucks ass. cool

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Well then SHOW the demonstration. At this point you're just ASSUMING that DS's power drops, but I've never seen that actually indicated. And a better comparison would be you saying that a character is capable of lightspeed flight even though he's never actually shown the ability to hit that speed.




Again, a scan or issue number please. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, I'd just like to see the instance for myself rather than take possible "forum talk" at face value.

There is a reference to thier power dropping when boom tubing. There is an old scan with DS in Giant form and his very presence destroys the cosmos around him. I do not have the scan anymore as the link that I had is broken. But I will search for it.

vlaaad12345
Ds temporarily downed supes in only 3 hits back in OWAW.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There is a reference to thier power dropping when boom tubing. There is an old scan with DS in Giant form and his very presence destroys the cosmos around him. I do not have the scan anymore as the link that I had is broken. But I will search for it.
Ok. And like I said, I'll settle for an issue number if you can't find the scan(I understand that not everyone has a scanner so I'm willing to do my own legwork).

darthgoober
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Ds temporarily downed supes in only 3 hits back in OWAW.
After Supes had already been fighting a shitload of New Gods and Imperiex Probes I believe. That's hardly a clear indication...

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
After Supes had already been fighting a shitload of New Gods and Imperiex Probes I believe. That's hardly a clear indication...
Is this before DS had spent alot of his own power fighting as well?

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Is this before DS had spent alot of his own power fighting as well?
Don't know, just going off of what batdude and Avy said. Even if that's the case though, the circumstances within the situation mean that it's hardly a showing of the two of them at their best.

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by darthgoober
After Supes had already been fighting a shitload of New Gods and Imperiex Probes I believe. That's hardly a clear indication...
Supes had been resting for awhile,and he only fought some parademons before ds he seemed fine,and in supes/bat when they fought darkseid was overpowering a pissed off supes and still fought even with him for awhile after supes is dipping near the sun.

batdude123
Originally posted by darthgoober
After Supes had already been fighting a shitload of New Gods and Imperiex Probes I believe. That's hardly a clear indication...

I'd have to reread what lead up to that, but I'll let you know tomorrow.

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by batdude123
I'd have to reread what lead up to that, but I'll let you know tomorrow.
It was after darkseid saved him from imperiex,teleported him to apokolips so he can give him the aegis,supes had been unconcious resting woke up started a fight some parademons(beat their asses)and like 3 or so shoted kalibak I believe,then he fought ds and ds took him out in 3 hits.

darthgoober
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Supes had been resting for awhile,and he only fought some parademons before ds he seemed fine
So he fought New Gods, Imperiex Probes, AND Parademons before DS then?

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
,and in supes/bat when they fought darkseid was overpowering a pissed off supes and still fought even with him for awhile after supes is dipping near the sun.
So that's one instance of DS's strength being superior and one instance of Supes's strength being superior(Apocalypse Now) which means that they're tied and the two of them are in the same strength range. That's not to say that DS isn't stronger, but he's definitely not heads and tails over Supes.

vlaaad12345
He didnt fight them back to back,he had been resting for sometime woke up beat the parademons and kalibak down easily then challenged darkseid,ds proceeded to 3 shot him.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
So he fought New Gods, Imperiex Probes, AND Parademons before DS then?


So that's one instance of DS's strength being superior and one instance of Supes's strength being superior(Apocalypse Now) which means that they're tied and the two of them are in the same strength range. That's not to say that DS isn't stronger, but he's definitely not heads and tails over Supes.

The thing is, DS has bitched superman a few times with a back hand. I've never seen superman just stand still and be able to rock DS. He has to give it his all just to move him. Speed blitzing, ect.

darthgoober
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
He didnt fight them back to back,he had been resting for sometime woke up beat the parademons and kalibak down easily then challenged darkseid,ds proceeded to 3 shot him.
Nevertheless, the circumstances mean that it's impossible to make a judgement off it because there were a LOT of factors going into the confrontation. Not to mention the fact that it contradicts most of Supes showings against DS...

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by darthgoober
Nevertheless, the circumstances mean that it's impossible to make a judgement off it because there were a LOT of factors going into the confrontation. Not to mention the fact that it contradicts most of Supes showings against DS...
Contradicts most of supes showings against ds?supes has beat ds twice...ajobolypse now(cmon that was horrible writing and everyone knows it)and needed to be pissed off,deflected oe in ds's face and a sundip just to break even with ds in supes/batman,all other times ds has been considered the superior.

darthgoober
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Contradicts most of supes showings against ds?supes has beat ds twice...ajobolypse now(cmon that was horrible writing and everyone knows it)and needed to be pissed off,deflected oe in ds's face and a sundip just to break even with ds in supes/batman,all other times ds has been considered the superior.
What other times are you talking about? When did some of these other instances happen? Also Supes has about five wins/stalemates against DS, not just two.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
What other times are you talking about? When did some of these other instances happen? Also Supes has about five wins/stalemates against DS, not just two. Five? When? I know you aren't counting Superman Batman with the OE to the dome and a sun amp? What other instances do you speak of?

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Five? When? I know you aren't counting Superman Batman with the OE to the dome and a sun amp? What other instances do you speak of?
Yes I actually am counting that as one of them, but more as an example of stalemating than beating though, due to the circumstances you already mentioned. As for the complete list, it's here in this post...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9574955#post9574955

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes I actually am counting that as one of them, but more as an example of stalemating than beating though, due to the circumstances you already mentioned. As for the complete list, it's here in this post...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9574955#post9574955 UM no goober.


In the first round of scans all superman does is run from the omegas and leads them back to DS. DS is hurt and gets back up. Fight invalid.

In the 2nd set of scans, It looks like superman hit DS with all of his might. DS gets back up and is ready to kill supers. Superman throws a bunch of parademons and is teleported away? or something like that. I fail to see where Superman did anything but get a sucker punch in that didn't do any harm.

The Third fight is after DS has expended most of his power on imperiex. Fight invalid.

Fight four basically tells us that DS had never lost on the physical plane before then. And Superman basically admits this by saying he's stronger on this one day. To which he has a valid win. Unless of course I can tie the timelines together and debunk this one too. stick out tongue

Fight five is a gag. Superman in anger speed blitzes DS. And does absolutely no dmg. He gets ***** slapped back, and then DS owns himself with his own power via an aegis shield. I fail to see where Superman hung with DS. He put his all into a speed blitz and did NO DMG. And then Superman gets to fight DS damn near the top of the sun by taking advantage of a self inflicted wound. Where he knew he would have a sever power boost. And to top it off, DS was actually trading blows with Superman on top of the sun. Until the sun amp became too much to over come in addition to his own injuries.

I see one victory to superman's credit and that is Apok Now.

Also I noticed what so intersting about the first scans are the fact that superman knew the beams would kill him, and he didn't expect DS to survive. But DS not only survives, but then survives a beating at superman's hands. He also talks about his durability and the fact that he is able to house the Omega force.

starking
There was two showdowns in action comics(the first by Bryne's) and Apokolips now. The first was probally retconned, so I don't count that one....as for Superman and Batman, there was a ton of bullshit going on there, and Supes didn't really beat him head on........

Desaad
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
UM no goober.


In the first round of scans all superman does is run from the omegas and leads them back to DS. DS is hurt and gets back up. Fight invalid.

In the 2nd set of scans, It looks like superman hit DS with all of his might. DS gets back up and is ready to kill supers. Superman throws a bunch of parademons and is teleported away? or something like that. I fail to see where Superman did anything but get a sucker punch in that didn't do any harm.

The Third fight is after DS has expended most of his power on imperiex. Fight invalid.

Fight four basically tells us that DS had never lost on the physical plane before then. And Superman basically admits this by saying he's stronger on this one day. To which he has a valid win. Unless of course I can tie the timelines together and debunk this one too. stick out tongue

Fight five is a gag. Superman in anger speed blitzes DS. And does absolutely no dmg. He gets ***** slapped back, and then DS owns himself with his own power via an aegis shield. I fail to see where Superman hung with DS. He put his all into a speed blitz and did NO DMG. And then Superman gets to fight DS damn near the top of the sun by taking advantage of a self inflicted wound. Where he knew he would have a sever power boost. And to top it off, DS was actually trading blows with Superman on top of the sun. Until the sun amp became too much to over come in addition to his own injuries.

I see one victory to superman's credit and that is Apok Now.

Also I noticed what so intersting about the first scans are the fact that superman knew the beams would kill him, and he didn't expect DS to survive. But DS not only survives, but then survives a beating at superman's hands. He also talks about his durability and the fact that he is able to house the Omega force.

God, you fancy yourself knowledgeable on the New Gods and you don't call the first fight wrong for the reason that it truly is -- that it was retconned into being Desaad in the form of Darkseid?!

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Desaad
God, you fancy yourself knowledgeable on the New Gods and you don't call the first fight wrong for the reason that it truly is -- that it was retconned into being Desaad in the form of Darkseid?!
I know about the desaad retcon. I just dont know which one's are actual retcons. And I never said I was a new god expert. I just champion them becuz they are my favorite characters. If you have info to share, then please do so and enlighten. Sharing knowlege is what we are here for. But if you do it in the way that you try, it will fall upon my deaf ears.

Desaad
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I know about the desaad retcon. I just dont know which one's are actual retcons. And I never said I was a new god expert. I just champion them becuz they are my favorite characters. If you have info to share, then please do so and enlighten. Sharing knowlege is what we are here for. But if you do it in the way that you try, it will fall upon my deaf ears.

Dr. Fate and the first Action Comics appearance were retconned by that one.

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