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Did Runner not own Surfer?

He might do the same to Supes.

Runner in a curbstomp.

The Runner wins.

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
Did Runner not own Surfer?

He will do the same to Supes.

Fixed.

Probably Runner in this one. He's like a non-jobbing
Flash.

Does the Surfer have T-vo?

Nope. He has VERY very low level telepathy though.

hmmm

How doe runner win this?

If he can go light speed then i see how but if he cant i dont

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
hmmm

How doe runner win this?

If he can go light speed then i see how but if he cant i dont

He easily out sped the Surfer. .

Originally posted by Soljer
He easily out sped the Surfer. .
... ok then....

Runner is basically marvel's Flash. All except
he doesn't job like the Flash does.
Technically, if the Flash were to not job, no one
would beat him under HIGH level cosmic, because
he is too fast for anyone to even touch. But
people do.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Runner is basically marvel's Flash. All except
he doesn't job like the Flash does.
Technically, if the Flash were to not job, no one
would beat him under HIGH level cosmic, because
he is too fast for anyone to even touch. But
people do.

So you're saying that the runner and Flash are greater than Dominus or Sathanus etc.

I just want to get that straight.

No. But I am saying that the Runner is faster than Superman.
And he is quite powerful. You can't beat what you can't react to.
And if you can't react to something that you're fighting, then it
will take advantage of that.

billions of infinite mass punches tend to hurt like a *****

Very true.

Originally posted by Sirius77
No. But I am saying that the Runner is faster than Superman.
And he is quite powerful. You can't beat what you can't react to.
And if you can't react to something that you're fighting, then it
will take advantage of that.

Well, let's just consider that. The present Superman seemed to be able to react at speeds that allowed him to fight Superboy prime and drive him through a red giant star before they both lost there powers on landing on Mogo. I would suggest this is the same Superboy prime who was able to keep up with Flashes at top speed.

I think present Superman can react to more than you give him credit for.

Originally posted by Zebedee
Well, let's just consider that. The present Superman seemed to be able to react at speeds that allowed him to fight Superboy prime and drive him through a red giant star before they both lost there powers on landing on Mogo. I would suggest this is the same Superboy prime who was able to keep up with Flashes at top speed.

I think present Superman can react to more than you give him credit for.

No, I give credit where credit is due, and believe me, Superman is
one of the fastest characters in DC, but he's just not faster than the Runner. Syaing that he is faster than Runner would mean that he is faster than the Flas, which is not so. Superboy-Prime was faster than all of the Flashes, but I think that we can both agree that Superman (or ANYONE else for that matter) even mildly keeping up with Superboy-Primes movements, much less speedblitzing him into the Red sun is pis and jobbing on Superboy-Prime's part.

Originally posted by Sirius77
No, I give credit where credit is due, and believe me, Superman is
one of the fastest characters in DC, but he's just not faster than the Runner. Syaing that he is faster than Runner would mean that he is faster than the Flas, which is not so. Superboy-Prime was faster than all of the Flashes, but I think that we can both agree that Superman (or ANYONE else for that matter) even mildly keeping up with Superboy-Primes movements, much less speedblitzing him into the Red sun is pis and jobbing on Superboy-Prime's part.
He speaks the truth

Runner.

The Runner isnt just Marvels answer to the Flash. Besides being that fast, he is an elder and contains the power primordial (basically the power cosmic).

He beats Superman to death easily everytime.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Runner is basically marvel's Flash. All except
he doesn't job like the Flash does.
Technically, if the Flash were to not job, no one
would beat him under HIGH level cosmic, because
he is too fast for anyone to even touch. But
people do.

Don't look at it as Flash jobbing, but rather bounded by mortal constraints. The runner not only does not have those constraints, but has some other nifty powers too. He obviously takes this match.

Runner is also super strong, and he has the likable ability.

Which, rendered Surfer unable to attack him.

Originally posted by tkitna
The Runner isnt just Marvels answer to the Flash. Besides being that fast, he is an elder and contains the power primordial (basically the power cosmic).

He beats Superman to death easily everytime.

You tend to exaggerate. The Runner is powerful, but he won't
walk away from this unscathed and Superman will most likely
survive. He'll just be ko'ed.

The Flash would win this one. Especially current.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Don't look at it as Flash jobbing, but rather bounded by mortal constraints. The runner not only does not have those constraints, but has some other nifty powers too. He obviously takes this match.

The Flash runs at trillions of times the speed of light. Easily.

To say that he is not jobbing to when someone like Superman
(though Superman is waaaaay faster than light) could tag him
is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Sirius77
You tend to exaggerate. The Runner is powerful, but he won't
walk away from this unscathed and Superman will most likely
survive. He'll just be ko'ed.

The Flash would win this one. Especially current.

A nonjobbing Runner should beat Superman everytime and be unscathed.

As for the Flash, I cant comment as I dont read him, but it seems like DC made him second only to Jesus in power according to this forum.

Originally posted by tkitna
A nonjobbing Runner should beat Superman everytime and be unscathed.

As for the Flash, I cant comment as I dont read him, but it seems like DC made him second only to Jesus in power according to this forum.

Second? Bah.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Second? Bah.

Heh, you might be right.

Originally posted by Sirius77
You tend to exaggerate. The Runner is powerful, but he won't
walk away from this unscathed and Superman will most likely
survive. He'll just be ko'ed.

The Flash would win this one. Especially current.

Why wouldn't he be unscathed superman would have to hit him and that's not to say he could not take a punch from supe's

FTL characters always get hit. It shouldn't happen, but it does.

Originally posted by Sirius77
FTL characters always get hit. It shouldn't happen, but it does.

Superman wouldn't hit him though. He wouldn't even be trying to.

This wouldn't last long. Just ask Surfer.

Well The Runner is immortal immune to death so how can Superman possibly beat him?

Superman.

Superman wins, easily.

Runner ftw

According to Wiki Flash run slightly faster than light speed, this is still imressive, but it does not state that he can move millions of times faster than light speed. All the same, I think Superman would beat the hell out of the Runner, just because he was able to defeat Surfer when they first met does not mean anything. Also I thought that Surfer fought him again and won.

I wonder how Runner would fair agaisnt PC Supes.....

Originally posted by Sirius77
The Flash runs at trillions of times the speed of light. Easily.

To say that he is not jobbing to when someone like Superman
(though Superman is waaaaay faster than light) could tag him
is ridiculous.

According to the nuclear bomb feat? The same could be said for Surfer in the IG saga. Logic has to step in at some point, as it obviously is not what the writers wanted. I will freely admit that the flash is a PIS-heavy character, but I simply put his getting tagged down to the fact that he isn't always at top speed all the time, and that although he possesses superhuman speed of thought, it is still bounded by human rationality.

Superman has also raced with flash (different incarnations) and tied most of the time, with a couple of speedforce losses. The flash has the potential to hit ridiculous speeds, but his median showings negate that. It could have been jobbing in his getting hit by SM, but he has been hit by far less on average showings.

None of that matters with the Runner. A much higher base power, energy blasts and his ability to affect emotions give him the match.

Originally posted by Sirius77
No, I give credit where credit is due, and believe me, Superman is
one of the fastest characters in DC, but he's just not faster than the Runner. Syaing that he is faster than Runner would mean that he is faster than the Flas, which is not so. Superboy-Prime was faster than all of the Flashes, but I think that we can both agree that Superman (or ANYONE else for that matter) even mildly keeping up with Superboy-Primes movements, much less speedblitzing him into the Red sun is pis and jobbing on Superboy-Prime's part.

Superman did as well as any of the speedforce guys at keeping up with Superboy prime. PIS or not in your opinion. It happened and it's canon. Superman is that fast.

i want to know why the flashes hands don't explode when he hits things at "light speed", cause we all know the basic rules of physics right?

and i don't remember the flash possessing super durability in any way.

The Runner stole Surfer's board ^^

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i want to know why the flashes hands don't explode when he hits things at "light speed", cause we all know the basic rules of physics right?

and i don't remember the flash possessing super durability in any way.
im no expert but i think hi mass increses as he goes faster or something.
guess its sort of like a piece of straw geting loged in something much stronger during a tornado.

Originally posted by xjustice69x
im no expert but i think hi mass increses as he goes faster or something.
guess its sort of like a piece of straw geting loged in something much stronger during a tornado.
runner for the win
hmm wierd gues i hit quote insted of edit

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
According to Wiki Flash run slightly faster than light speed, this is still imressive, but it does not state that he can move millions of times faster than light speed. All the same, I think Superman would beat the hell out of the Runner, just because he was able to defeat Surfer when they first met does not mean anything. Also I thought that Surfer fought him again and won.

I don't believe that Flash is "slightly" FTL. He ran to the
end of time in a moment. I don't think that anyone
except PC Superman has topped that.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I wonder how Runner would fair agaisnt PC Supes.....

Rape would not describe what PC Superman would do to the Runner.

Originally posted by Ouallada
According to the nuclear bomb feat? The same could be said for Surfer in the IG saga. Logic has to step in at some point, as it obviously is not what the writers wanted. I will freely admit that the flash is a PIS-heavy character, but I simply put his getting tagged down to the fact that he isn't always at top speed all the time, and that although he possesses superhuman speed of thought, it is still bounded by human rationality.

Superman has also raced with flash (different incarnations) and tied most of the time, with a couple of speedforce losses. The flash has the potential to hit ridiculous speeds, but his median showings negate that. It could have been jobbing in his getting hit by SM, but he has been hit by far less on average showings.

None of that matters with the Runner. A much higher base power, energy blasts and his ability to affect emotions give him the match.

The Flash ran to the end of time in the time frame of a moment.
The Runner is fast, but I doubt he can beat Flashes top speed.

Also, it is complete and utter pis when the Flash gets tagged. Every time. Unless it's an almost PC level character like Superboy-Prime.

Well the Flash is protected by the speedforce which allows him to go light speed and faster without destroying his surroundings and allowing temporary transferal of the force. I don't think there has ever been more than one IMP done because it requires too much energy(neutron star BS). I do believe that the Runner would be a good fight for Supes if you took away the whole T-vo and protection from the Source thing-so you could kill him when he was younger and less super. Theoretically beings that travel FTL could for all intents and purposes go back through time and should pretty much defeat any opponent. Heroes and Villains in Marvel don't really have speed stressed as much as DC does. Dr. Strange being able to conjure something in time to cast on the Surfer - is one example off the top of my head. Marvel cares more about the story than the feats in reference to percise combat not to say DC does not care about the story just these companies stress different things.

Originally posted by Ouallada
None of that matters with the Runner. A much higher base power, energy blasts and his ability to affect emotions give him the match.

If you want to go that far, then the Flash's ability to steal speed
wins it.

Originally posted by Sirius77
The Flash ran to the end of time in the time frame of a moment.
The Runner is fast, but I doubt he can beat Flashes top speed.

Also, it is complete and utter pis when the Flash gets tagged. Every time. Unless it's an almost PC level character like Superboy-Prime.

I have no problems with remotely plausible feats, ie I can grudgingly accept Spiderman knocking Firelord out (PIS and all), but running to the end of time? How far is that? It is absolutely absurd to use someone running to the end of time as a feat. If it is a time-manipulation feat, which is much more logical, then the Runner can replicate the feat, as speed = time travel in comics. I'm not imposing reality on comicdom, just filtering the improbable (smvsfl) from the illogical (running to the end of time).

PIS is the exception that proves the norm. Flash has been tagged by multiples upon multiples of beings slower than PC SBP. Using a couple of high end feats is using the exception to prove the norm.

The Runner would beat Superman
The Runner with his gem (I don't remember wich one he had) would be monstruous beating.

The guy was so fast that he was at a place before thinkin' to go there.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
The Runner would beat Superman
The Runner with his gem (I don't remember wich one he had) would be monstruous beating.

The guy was so fast that he was at a place before thinkin' to go there.

Runner had the space gem. He was able to accomplish that teleportation effect with the gem.

I say in the first confrontation Runner wins. Supes has the ability to win after that but it's still not guaranteed.

The second fight Runner had with Surfer was PIS. He had the time gem then. He didn't even have it for the first fight.

Originally posted by Ouallada
I have no problems with remotely plausible feats, ie I can grudgingly accept Spiderman knocking Firelord out (PIS and all), but running to the end of time? How far is that? It is absolutely absurd to use someone running to the end of time as a feat. If it is a time-manipulation feat, which is much more logical, then the Runner can replicate the feat, as speed = time travel in comics. I'm not imposing reality on comicdom, just filtering the improbable (smvsfl) from the illogical (running to the end of time).

PIS is the exception that proves the norm. Flash has been tagged by multiples upon multiples of beings slower than PC SBP. Using a couple of high end feats is using the exception to prove the norm.

Okay, lets get this straight. When he ran to the end of time in the
timeframe of a moment, there was no time travel involved. He
was outrunning death itself. So in order to outrun death, he ran to
the end of time where even death did not exist. So in otherwords,
he more or less went so far so fast that nothing existed except for
him. The Runner could not do that. He speed is different than the Flashes. The Flash is just on a whole other level. Also, again. What
is to stop the Flash from stealing the Runner's speed?

Also, if speed=timetravel in comics, then why doesn't every herald timetravel every time they cross interstellar distances? You can't
make broad statements like that. Timetravel does happen in comics,
but every character that can go lightspeed does not time travel.

Also, to say that it is not pis for a being fast enough to run to
the end of time in a moment, evacuate a city in a second, search
a city effortlessly in a picosecond, and transverse dimensions with his speed to get tagged by Deathstroke is ridiculous. If you don't think
so, then there's something wrong...

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
The Runner would beat Superman
The Runner with his gem (I don't remember wich one he had) would be monstruous beating.

The guy was so fast that he was at a place before thinkin' to go there.

It's called teleportation.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Okay, lets get this straight. When he ran to the end of time in the
timeframe of a moment, there was no time travel involved. He
was outrunning death itself. So in order to outrun death, he ran to
the end of time where even death did not exist. So in otherwords,
he more or less went so far so fast that nothing existed except for
him. The Runner could not do that. He speed is different than the Flashes. The Flash is just on a whole other level. Also, again. What
is to stop the Flash from stealing the Runner's speed?

Also, if speed=timetravel in comics, then why doesn't every herald timetravel every time they cross interstellar distances? You can't
make broad statements like that. Timetravel does happen in comics,
but every character that can go lightspeed does not time travel.

Also, to say that it is not pis for a being fast enough to run to
the end of time in a moment, evacuate a city in a second, search
a city effortlessly in a picosecond, and transverse dimensions with his speed to get tagged by Deathstroke is ridiculous. If you don't think
so, then there's something wrong...

Time isn't measured by distance, unless you can debate that. That leaves manipulation. It isn't a distance feat, but a time manipulation feat from my point of view. I understand the "so fast" portion, but since when does going "so far" help you to get to the end of time? In the end, we come back to speed enabling time manipulation.

I freely admit that the Runner would not be able to do that. I would be worried if an illogical feat were used in debates involving him. I have already said that the flash is a PIS-ridden character, and his high feats definitely beat what we have seen from the Runner, even though certain arguments can be made about the latter's usage or lack thereof with regards to the Time Gem during the IG saga. His low feats are far below the runner's. As for speedforce, I have no idea how that would work, to be honest. It is irrelevant to Runner vs Superman in any case.

What I meant was that sufficient speed = time travel for speedsters. if not, flash would not be going through time. Arguments can be made for SS as well, as I highly doubt the PC endows time-warping abilites, but rather the speed to enable such a warp. Scans showing otherwise would be great. Obviously, I cannot answer why a herald does not time travel every time they go at full speeds. My guess would be that it is either a matter of choice from the herald or that they are simply written that way to fit situations. Unless there are convincing scans that speedsters have other time-control abilities, I will subscribe to that view.

As for flash's low and high feats, the logic behind his outracing the black flash is questionable at best. His nuclear bomb feat already has more people poking holes at it than Britney Spears has sold tabloids. Do I think it is PIS for him to get tripped? Yes, I do, but those occurences are far more common than flash outracing death. You cannot take the good and claim PIS on the bad.

God damn if you had flash moving at his top speed of every issue it would be pretty damn boring and he would be almost unbeatable. Try and understand Flash is the fastest character ever, his high end feats top any one or any thing but for obvious reasons he is not going to operate at those levels in every comic, other wise it would make for some boring reading. Try and under stand comics before making stupid claims.

Originally posted by Sirius77
It's called teleportation.
Tele-speed.

Originally posted by Magee
God damn if you had flash moving at his top speed of every issue it would be pretty damn boring and he would be almost unbeatable. Try and understand Flash is the fastest character ever, his high end feats top any one or any thing but for obvious reasons he is not going to operate at those levels in every comic, other wise it would make for some boring reading. Try and under stand comics before making stupid claims.

Are you talking to me? If so, I was just stating the obvious. It's
true that it would make boring reading if the Flash used his powers like he should, but do you see my point?

Runner gets the win.

Based on his feats is Runner superior to Superman? Would a character one rarely hears of have feats to overshadow the many feats of Surfer or Supes in their comic entirety. Matches with Runner fighting Superman and matches with Supes fighting Surfer will only have logical unbiased people arguing for the 6/10 win one way or the other(Again if you take out BS like T -vo , channeling the energies of the crunch and uber velocities). If the Runner has the Space gem like in the IG saga this is lopsided from jump. Unless the PIS of aging an immortal being comes into play again lol... Hi to everyone by the way I am pretty new to collecting comics not as new as I am to KMC though. I've been reading and keeping track of debates for a good year and a half now. Anyway just wanted to say Hi

LOL

The Runner would end this very quickly.
No contest as he is out of Superman's league.

Originally posted by Magee
God damn if you had flash moving at his top speed of every issue it would be pretty damn boring and he would be almost unbeatable. Try and understand Flash is the fastest character ever, his high end feats top any one or any thing but for obvious reasons he is not going to operate at those levels in every comic, other wise it would make for some boring reading. Try and under stand comics before making stupid claims.

I assume you were talking to me. Firstly, if you want to debate, do so. If you want to insult, let me know. I'm a good debator, and even better at insulting.

Flash's speed-related feats are the best. I do not dispute them. Saying he cannot be hit based on a handful of feats sprinkled over decades while ignoring other showings calls for shenanigans.

I understand that Flash cannot operate at his nuclear-bomb-city-searching levels, because each comic would be pretty damn boring otherwise. I also understand that his median levels are far lower. For me, it is a case of flash NOT being able to operate at those levels all the time rather than him CHOOSING not to operate at said levels. Not happy with that? Too bad. DC's writers dug a hole for themselves when writing feats such as the black flash one, as they made flash into too much of a variable character. Flash would be much more interesting without those feats which fans harp on all day.

Flash running to the end of time had nothing to do with speed, with out the speed force he could never do this. Its not like he just ran really fast and ended up at the end of existence. I don't really see a point to your post but Flash has moved at insane speeds time after time he should be allowed to operate at these levels due to forum rules. How would he be more interesting with out these things, he is the fastest man alive he needs insane feats to back that statement but it in no way means he has to be constantly moving at light speed jsut because he can.

Runner is a bit overrated here...

What are Runner's best feats ? He doesn't have that much high end feats. Superman however, has lots of them. Speed isn't everything.

Runner is an idiot too by the way. And overconfident.

Based on feats, powers and intelligence, I give this to Superman.

Originally posted by Magee
Flash running to the end of time had nothing to do with speed, with out the speed force he could never do this. Its not like he just ran really fast and ended up at the end of existence. I don't really see a point to your post but Flash has moved at insane speeds time after time he should be allowed to operate at these levels due to forum rules. How would he be more interesting with out these things, he is the fastest man alive he needs insane feats to back that statement but it in no way means he has to be constantly moving at light speed jsut because he can.

So you are saying that flash's running to the end of time has nothing to with speed, but with the speed force, even though the flash draws his speed from the speed force?

Flash has moved at great speeds. I have no problem with that. It also does not mean that illogical high end feats should be thrown around. Running to end of time = how fast? Clearing a city of people while under the speed of light? Using exceptions to disprove the norm?

To be the fastest man, he just needs to be faster than the second fastest entity. No need for ambiguous feats.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Runner is a bit overrated here...

What are Runner's best feats ? He doesn't have that much high end feats. Superman however, has lots of them. Speed isn't everything.

Runner is an idiot too by the way. And overconfident.

Based on feats, powers and intelligence, I give this to Superman.

The only character to blitz Thanos, punk SS and beat the Collector very badly. I remember him doing something with Moondragon too. Nothing much to scream at, but he does not have many appearances, but enough to know that none of them are PIS, and enough to know that he should take a good majority against Superman.

Originally posted by Magee
God damn if you had flash moving at his top speed of every issue it would be pretty damn boring and he would be almost unbeatable. Try and understand Flash is the fastest character ever, his high end feats top any one or any thing but for obvious reasons he is not going to operate at those levels in every comic, other wise it would make for some boring reading. Try and under stand comics before making stupid claims.

It's the exact same way with Storm.

Depowered Runner?

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Runner is a bit overrated here...

/thread

Runner

Current Runner can't even surpass lightspeed -.-

Originally posted by Ouallada
The only character to blitz Thanos, punk SS and beat the Collector very badly. I remember him doing something with Moondragon too. Nothing much to scream at, but he does not have many appearances, but enough to know that none of them are PIS, and enough to know that he should take a good majority against Superman.
- It's a feat speedblitzing Thanos ? Especially when the Runner was using the Space Gem ? Some feat...

- Runner surprised SS (so much for cosmic awareness), and SS is known to job. I'm not saying SS will wipe the floor with Runner, but a well written Surfer, using every power he has, is no joke.

- Moondragon ?

Like I said, no real high end feats. Impressive feats yes, but nothing that makes me think that Runner will just run over Superman.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
- It's a feat speedblitzing Thanos ? Especially when the Runner was using the Space Gem ? Some feat...

- Runner surprised SS (so much for cosmic awareness), and SS is known to job. I'm not saying SS will wipe the floor with Runner, but a well written Surfer, using every power he has, is no joke.

- Moondragon ?

Like I said, no real high end feats. Impressive feats yes, but nothing that makes me think that Runner will just run over Superman.

It is a feat blitzing a Thanos who already had a couple of gems under his belt. I have already seen your complete rejection of why Thanos is a faster sucker than you give him credit for, so i see no need in elaborating further.

How did SS job?

He actually had a pseudo-affair with Moondragon, not a fight. Were you perhaps jumping a logical bridge too far with the sarcasm?

Thanos has never been know for his speed.

You do have a point...Thanos did have more gems. When he used them..the battle quickly ended.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that he's slow as molasses in most cases.

Originally posted by Ouallada
I have already seen your complete rejection of why Thanos is a faster sucker than you give him credit for, so i see no need in elaborating further.
Until now, I have never - read : never - seen Thanos move or fight or react as fast some people think he can.

I have no problem admitting he's quite fast. Captain America on a bad day however is still faster.

The way he always jobs. Surfer has the potential to be one of the top dogs in Marvel, but he isn't. Surfer lost to Thor on more than one occasion, while i.m.o., Surfer is more powerful, faster and more durable than Thor.

Even Spider-Man has given Surfer serious trouble.

I wouldn't dare.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Until now, I have never - read : never - seen Thanos move or fight or react as fast some people think he can.

I have no problem admitting he's quite fast. Captain America on a bad day however is still faster.


Subjective perception. Characters known for their speed have tried and failed to affect battle outcomes in any way due to speed. You can either argue for a mass jobbing along the lines of conspiracy theorists arguing that Man never landed on the moon, or simply take battle outcomes as they have been shown.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
The way he always jobs. Surfer has the potential to be one of the top dogs in Marvel, but he isn't. Surfer lost to Thor on more than one occasion, while i.m.o., Surfer is more powerful, faster and more durable than Thor.

Do you understand the meaning of "job"? A job is a scripted loss to make the victor look better. Does Spiderman need a random crook to job when he is already > random crook? Of course, you can show me evidence that Surfer jobbed on that occasion. I am not interested in how many other losses he took that he should not have, and only in his performance against the runner.

I agree that SS > Thor, but not by the margin that you seem to be insinuating. I only remember one or two clean losses, not counting the Loki/BnT ones. If SS takes 6/10 against Thor, it is not far-fetched for him to lose a couple in a row.


Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Even Spider-Man has given Surfer serious trouble.


That is not so much a job as it is SS' character. To be honest, does anyone who can tell the difference between SS and pepsiman use that in a debate, barring x-fanboys? Much ado about nothing, as I assume both of us know well enough to invalidate tripe like that.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy I wouldn't dare.

That is correct.

Originally posted by Avlon
Thanos has never been know for his speed.

You do have a point...Thanos did have more gems. When he used them..the battle quickly ended.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that he's slow as molasses in most cases.

And Federer (tennis) has never been known as a soccer player good enough to turn professional. Whether or not Thanos is known for speed matters not. What matters more is faster opponents trying and failing to use speed against him.

Yup, Thanos used the time gem against runner. Which only enforces the point that the runner was giving him grief with his speed.

I don't know. How many races has Thanos been in exactly?

Originally posted by Ouallada
Subjective perception. Characters known for their speed have tried and failed to affect battle outcomes in any way due to speed. You can either argue for a mass jobbing along the lines of conspiracy theorists arguing that Man never landed on the moon, or simply take battle outcomes as they have been shown.

Which battles are you talking about ? And there's nothing subjective about it by the way. Thanos is pretty slow compared to the majority of the Marvel heroes/villains.

He doesn't have the showings to make me think otherwise. Bottom line is, if you think a certain character has this and that power, you better have some solid proof to back it up.

Oh and Superman still wins, but it won't be easy.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Which battles are you talking about ? And there's nothing subjective about it by the way. Thanos is pretty slow compared to the majority of the Marvel heroes/villains.

He doesn't have the showings to make me think otherwise. Bottom line is, if you think a certain character has this and that power, you better have some solid proof to back it up.

Oh and Superman still wins, but it won't be easy.

Starfox and fallen one come first and foremost to mind. Something is subjective when it can be interpreted in more than one way. So unless you are saying that it is your way or the highway......

You will not see Thanos blitz someone, if that is your criteria of combat speed. However, not being blitzed by someone faster than himself is evidence enough. Call it speed of thought or reflexes or jobbing, but save the runner, he has not been successfully blitzed

The lack of evidence on your part is evidence itself. The burden of proof does not lie on me, because in previous battles with heralds, Thanos has not been blitzed. If I were to simply say something like 'Thanos can do teh retCon ppunch!!11!!11', the burden of proof would be on me. Your saying that Thanos can be blitzed when he has showings in which fast characters have failed to blitz him needs backing up. Ergo, runner's blitz is a feat for the runner.

The runner takes this.

Starfox and Fallen One are your best examples ? That's pretty meagre.

Especially Fallen One... if you are talking about that one time that Fallen One flew to Thanos, and Thanos raised his hand (don't remember exactly what happened next, he blasted him or so).

That's a speed feat from Thanos ? A proof of his superior reflexes ? Now, it could be considered as a one time "speed feat", but the problem is : we don't have the slightest idea how fast Fallen One was going.

2 miles an hour ? 15 miles an hour ? Speed of sound ? Speed of light ? Your guess is as good as mine.

If you want my opinion - and who doesn't - Fallen One just flew to Thanos, probably pretty fast, but that's about it. If you claim he was going Mach 256, you have a lot to prove.

And Starfox is a bit of a joke when fighting, non ?


Because he can't, you need speed to blitz someone. Ask Firelord.

The heralds didn't blitz Spider-Man eiter. Does that mean he is faster than them ?

Thanos has Ftl reflexes but can only run at about 30 mph

Kinda weird dont you think?

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Which battles are you talking about ? And there's nothing subjective about it by the way. Thanos is pretty slow compared to the majority of the Marvel heroes/villains.



What about Silver Surfer? So what Supermans going to speed blitz runner?

Originally posted by Alfheim
What about Silver Surfer? So what Supermans going to speed blitz runner?
Wouldn't work, you know that, I know that.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Wouldn't work, you know that, I know that.

Right so your saying Superman cant speed blitz runner....? So how does Superman win?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Right so your saying Superman cant speed blitz runner....? So how does Superman win?
I don't know, maybe by kicking the crap out of him ? It's not because Runner is faster, that he's just gonna take the win.

I'm willing to bet that Superman punches a whole lot harder than Runner. Superman is probably a lot more durable too (in all honesty, I can't prove it, but I compare both characters showings, and Superman has some insane durability feats.)

I hope you are not saying that Superman won't be able to touch Runner, because Runner happens to be faster ?

Superman has true super human fighting reflexes, you know, Flash style. I could be wrong, but Runner only travels very fast (and thinks very slowly). Is his reaction time just as great as his traveling speed ? I don't know, haven't seen it until now.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I don't know, maybe by kicking the crap out of him ? It's not because Runner is faster, that he's just gonna take the win.

Ok.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy


I'm willing to bet that Superman punches a whole lot harder than Runner. Superman is probably a lot more durable too (in all honesty, I can't prove it, but I compare both characters showings, and Superman has some insane durability feats.)

So what you're telling me is that Superman can win because he can punch harder than the Runner and that you cant prove that Superman is more durable? Well first of all Runner doesnt have to use superhuman srength he can use energy.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy


I hope you are not saying that Superman won't be able to touch Runner, because Runner happens to be faster ?

Nope I see Runner winning with some trouble but not too much. All Edlers that have spent time developing their powers seem to be much more powerful than Superman....I could be wrong but thats the impression I get. For startes even the Obliterator who uses tech almost killed Surfer and Surfer has gone toe to toe with Henshaw.


Originally posted by Kid Kurdy


Superman has true super human fighting reflexes, you know, Flash style. I could be wrong, but Runner only travels very fast (and thinks very slowly). Is his reaction time just as great as his traveling speed ? I don't know, haven't seen it until now.

I think you are wrong the Runner is a cosmic speedstar the same way Quicksilver and Speed Demon are speedsters but Runner is cosmic...I thought that was obvious. If you travel fast you ahve to be able to think fast as well...for starters you have to avoid objects when travlleing at high speed. As you know he could ahve beaten Thanos and has beaten Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
- It's a feat speedblitzing Thanos ? Especially when the Runner was using the Space Gem ? Some feat...

- Runner surprised SS (so much for cosmic awareness), and SS is known to job. I'm not saying SS will wipe the floor with Runner, but a well written Surfer, using every power he has, is no joke.

- Moondragon ?

Like I said, no real high end feats. Impressive feats yes, but nothing that makes me think that Runner will just run over Superman.

Runner wasn't using the space gem. The space gem allowed him to have a teleportation effect as Thanos stated. He didn't destroy Thanos's throne/chair by teleporting.

As far as Surfer using all of his powers, it seemed like he didn't even have the time vs. Runner. Surfer also lost a test of power against Runner before he was sent crashing into that planet.

marvel vs marvel, dc vs dc. dc characters are all on steroids
all their characters are godlike now, even batman to some extent.
people that dislike world war hulk are really just stunned to see marvel take a page out of dc's un-thought out pages by making the hulk a juggernaut, without taking into account the aftermath of the storyline; hulk is now above all the avengers, he is smarter and stronger than ever, his healing factor is better than ever, he beat strange and blackbolt, etc see what I;m saying? it just causes other characters to be elevated to that level to even the playing field(cause you know they wont be weakened). so yeah, marvel shouldn't be mixed with dc got that, cause superman is beyond god now and growing. and I dare any one to tell me differently

Originally posted by psycho gundam
marvel vs marvel, dc vs dc. dc characters are all on steroids
all their characters are godlike now, even batman to some extent.
people that dislike world war hulk are really just stunned to see marvel take a page out of dc's un-thought out pages by making the hulk a juggernaut, without taking into account the aftermath of the storyline; hulk is now above all the avengers, he is smarter and stronger than ever, his healing factor is better than ever, he beat strange and blackbolt, etc see what I;m saying? it just causes other characters to be elevated to that level to even the playing field(cause you know they wont be weakened). so yeah, marvel shouldn't be mixed with dc got that, cause superman is beyond god now and growing. and I dare any one to tell me differently

Why did u post this same comment in multiple threads? U talk about Hulk beating Strange but any 1 in their right mind knows that's not supposed to happen. There are characters in Marvel capable of beating Superman. This thread is an example. Besides, Marvel vs. Marvel and DC vs. DC matchups have gotten old and are boring. U eventually have to crossover at some point after being on these boards for a while.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
marvel vs marvel, dc vs dc. dc characters are all on steroids
all their characters are godlike now, even batman to some extent.
people that dislike world war hulk are really just stunned to see marvel take a page out of dc's un-thought out pages by making the hulk a juggernaut, without taking into account the aftermath of the storyline; hulk is now above all the avengers, he is smarter and stronger than ever, his healing factor is better than ever, he beat strange and blackbolt, etc see what I;m saying? it just causes other characters to be elevated to that level to even the playing field(cause you know they wont be weakened). so yeah, marvel shouldn't be mixed with dc got that, cause superman is beyond god now and growing. and I dare any one to tell me differently Superman isn't beyond god.

Supes wins.

Originally posted by Ouallada
The only character to blitz Thanos, punk SS and beat the Collector very badly. I remember him doing something with Moondragon too. Nothing much to scream at, but he does not have many appearances, but enough to know that none of them are PIS, and enough to know that he should take a good majority against Superman. Because Superman hasn't schooled characters out of the league of everyone mentioned.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Why did u post this same comment in multiple threads? U talk about Hulk beating Strange but any 1 in their right mind knows that's not supposed to happen. There are characters in Marvel capable of beating Superman. This thread is an example. Besides, Marvel vs. Marvel and DC vs. DC matchups have gotten old and are boring. U eventually have to crossover at some point after being on these boards for a while.



its just that dc is sooooo bogus it hurts.

Originally posted by Juntai
Supes wins.

Why?

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Starfox and Fallen One are your best examples ? That's pretty meagre.

Especially Fallen One... if you are talking about that one time that Fallen One flew to Thanos, and Thanos raised his hand (don't remember exactly what happened next, he blasted him or so).

That's a speed feat from Thanos ? A proof of his superior reflexes ? Now, it could be considered as a one time "speed feat", but the problem is : we don't have the slightest idea how fast Fallen One was going.

2 miles an hour ? 15 miles an hour ? Speed of sound ? Speed of light ? Your guess is as good as mine.

If you want my opinion - and who doesn't - Fallen One just flew to Thanos, probably pretty fast, but that's about it. If you claim he was going Mach 256, you have a lot to prove.

And Starfox is a bit of a joke when fighting, non ?

Meagre? That is still two more than what you have come up with to show that he CAN be blitzed by such characters.

Fallen One was a reflex feat. As I have said, Thanos is never going to blitz anyone, but his reflexes makes it difficult for him to get blitzed. Can I ask how we can tell from a panel that a character is going fast? The way fallen one was emoting in that battle, plus the way illustrations were done, added to the fact that he is a higher end herald who has the ability to cover distance pretty quickly gives what I am arguing for some credence at least. Obviously I cannot prove it, as there was no numerical evidence, but circumstantial evidence gives my claim credence. How would you disprove it then? Show me why he was going at "2kmph"?



Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Because he can't, you need speed to blitz someone. Ask Firelord.


You seem to be confusing speed with reflex. The former is needed to blitz. The second is needed to avoid being blitzed. Similar, but a fine line.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
The heralds didn't blitz Spider-Man eiter. Does that mean he is faster than them ?

I don't take a bazooka to a knife fight either. Especially when I have a big bad knife and when the opponent has a Hello Kitty playset knife for cutting playdough. Heralds >>> spiderman. Thanos > heralds. Spiderman can hurt heralds about as much as SS has hurt Thanos in the past. When the runner fought surfer, the elders were plotting to kill G. Does that seem like equal context to you?

Originally posted by Juntai
Because Superman hasn't schooled characters out of the league of everyone mentioned.

Those were runner's average feats. I know that superman has beaten characters above those. Why then would he likely lose to either Thanos or Surfer if so? Either a case of selective memory or a faulty generalisation. I expected better from a respected debater as yourself.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Meagre? That is still two more than what you have come up with to show that he CAN be blitzed by such characters.

Fallen One was a reflex feat. As I have said, Thanos is never going to blitz anyone, but his reflexes makes it difficult for him to get blitzed. Can I ask how we can tell from a panel that a character is going fast? The way fallen one was emoting in that battle, plus the way illustrations were done, added to the fact that he is a higher end herald who has the ability to cover distance pretty quickly gives what I am arguing for some credence at least. Obviously I cannot prove it, as there was no numerical evidence, but circumstantial evidence gives my claim credence. How would you disprove it then? Show me why he was going at "2kmph"?



I dunno man if you were going to fly towards Thanos in order to destroy him you would probably fly as slow as possible. Yeah I think id fly at 2mph that should be able to do it....I mean hes only one of the most dangerous people in the univers. Hell I fly at the speed of light or faster im trying to kill Thanos.... **** it i'll think i'll fly at 2mph.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dunno man if you were going to fly towards Thanos in order to destroy him you would probably fly as slow as possible. Yeah I think id fly at 2mph that should be able to do it....I mean hes only one of the most dangerous people in the univers. Hell I fly at the speed of light or faster im trying to kill Thanos.... **** it i'll think i'll fly at 2mph.

Precisely. I can see heralds holding back against insignificant street level threats, but not against an entity that is above them. They surely did not hold back against Tyrant, and I doubt any herald would hold back against Thanos.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Precisely. I can see heralds holding back against insignificant street level threats, but not against an entity that is above them. They surely did not hold back against Tyrant, and I doubt any herald would hold back against Thanos.
DING DING DING

Give the man a prize

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
DING DING DING

Give the man a prize

Yeah but when you got posters saying that shooting down Fallen One at high speed isnt a reflex feat, you have to state the bleeding obvious. Hey I dindt even read the comic but assuming Oullada is telling the truth its bloody obvious it was a reflex feat.

It could have been a forcefield, but my guess was some kind of mental Tk-esque feat. It still says a lot about relexes. I found the scan on the respect thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=356352&pagenumber=2

Look at the fourth scan, and decide for yourself if that looks like 2 miles per hour. The more I look at it, the more I believe that the artist WANTED us to know that fallen one was really hauling ass in that battle.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Those were runner's average feats. I know that superman has beaten characters above those. Why then would he likely lose to either Thanos or Surfer if so? Either a case of selective memory or a faulty generalisation. I expected better from a respected debater as yourself. For the most part they're Runners only feats. He doesn't have many.


I've seen no evidence that puts Thanos head and shoulders over Superman either.

You can bring up him defeating a group of top tiers, Superman has the same.
A high end cosmic threat? Check for Supes as well.

You can try to use Surfer as some sort of ABC logic of how Thanos is over Superman, but the same effect can be accomplished the other way as well.

Originally posted by Juntai
For the most part they're Runners only feats. He doesn't have many.


I've seen no evidence that puts Thanos head and shoulders over Superman either.

You can bring up him defeating a group of top tiers, Superman has the same.
A high end cosmic threat? Check for Supes as well.

You can try to use Surfer as some sort of ABC logic of how Thanos is over Superman, but the same effect can be accomplished the other way as well.

Since they are runner's only feats, that is the level he is debated at.

As for you believing that Superman is equal to or greater than Surfer and/or Thanos, that's fine. That is a story for another thread. Most logical posters on here would disagree though. Those threads already exist, and I will gladly debate either surfer or Thanos against Superman if a newer thread were ever to be created, and to be honest, I would fancy my chances.

Just to check on the last point. If I were to use SS losing to Thanos as evidence of Thanos > Superman, that would be ABC logic, right? However, Superman defeating other herald or Thanos level beings would not be ABC logic?

Originally posted by Juntai
For the most part they're Runners only feats. He doesn't have many.


I've seen no evidence that puts Thanos head and shoulders over Superman either.

You can bring up him defeating a group of top tiers, Superman has the same.
A high end cosmic threat? Check for Supes as well.

You can try to use Surfer as some sort of ABC logic of how Thanos is over Superman, but the same effect can be accomplished the other way as well.

The writers see it the way you do too. IF you look at DC vs. Marvel, the writers clearly show that DS is above Thanos. THanos is getting his ass kicked by Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel and GL. WHile DS is laughting at SIlver Surfer, THor and storm. I'd wager that if you take a side by side comparison of feats, Superman, and THor both have feats that dwarf THanos's own without prep or tech aid.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The writers see it the way you do too. IF you look at DC vs. Marvel, the writers clearly show that DS is above Thanos. THanos is getting his ass kicked by Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel and GL. WHile DS is laughting at SIlver Surfer, THor and storm. I'd wager that if you take a side by side comparison of feats, Superman, and THor both have feats that dwarf THanos's own without prep or tech aid.

I don't think most logical people are arguing that Thanos > Darkseid. As for Thanos losing to WW, CM or GLs, create the threads and you will find out what most sensible people think. Why is Storm in this? To be honest, I don't really see the reason behind this post of yours.

Originally posted by Ouallada
I don't think most logical people are arguing that Thanos > Darkseid. As for Thanos losing to WW, CM or GLs, create the threads and you will find out what most sensible people think. Why is Storm in this? To be honest, I don't really see the reason behind this post of yours.

To show what the writers think of relative power. Superman even says in his world, the dials go up to eleven. In JLA avengers, it talkes about how the heroes from DC are generally more powerful. Then you have WW breaking a construct, Easily beating an immortal herc. I'd say that Superman is actually closer to Thanos lvl if not exact.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
To show what the writers think of relative power. Superman even says in his world, the dials go up to eleven. In JLA avengers, it talkes about how the heroes from DC are generally more powerful. Then you have WW breaking a construct, Easily beating an immortal herc. I'd say that Superman is actually closer to Thanos lvl if not exact.

So in the end it all boils down to DC being able to piss further than Marvel? Apologies for the language, but the essence remains true. No one here takes crossovers with anything less than a barrel of salt. If they did, the Superman vs Thor thread would have lasted about three posts. One to start the thread, one to post the scans, and one for the mod to close. Comparing DC:Marvel using DS:Thanos for example, is just flawed. There are no exact parallels. That is why we have this forum.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The writers see it the way you do too. IF you look at DC vs. Marvel, the writers clearly show that DS is above Thanos. THanos is getting his ass kicked by Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel and GL. No he wasn't... Thanos was beating the shit out of those guys...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/DCvsMarvel04-p24.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/DCvsMarvel04-p25.jpg

Plus, in that story, Thanos and Darkseid were portrayed as exact equals.

Also, Storm beat WW in DC/Marvel.

And Logan beat Lobo. Meh. Jesus kills a cat everytime someone says Marvel > DC or DC > Marvel.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
No he wasn't... Thanos was beating the shit out of those guys...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/DCvsMarvel04-p24.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/DCvsMarvel04-p25.jpg

Plus, in that story, Thanos and Darkseid were portrayed as exact equals.

Also, Storm beat WW in DC/Marvel.
Um, they weren't portrayed as exact equals. Are you reading the same book? Thanos looks quite weary where as DS is pretty much laughing. Try again. DS took no dmg. Thanos is getting rocked. he hits ww and she gets RIGHT back up.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um, they weren't portrayed as exact equals. Are you reading the same book? Thanos looks quite weary where as DS is pretty much laughing. Try again. DS took no dmg. Thanos is getting rocked. he hits ww and she gets RIGHT back up. DS was knocked on his knees (or at least seems that way). Thanos was knocked back a bit.
Plus, a punch from WW, and CM are more powerful than a puny blast from Surfer, and a lightning bolt from Storm.

Thanos pimp slapped/threw WW, of course she's going to get back up. And Thanos looks far from weary.

Plus, Darkseid hit Thor with his beams and Thor got up in the next page.
Your logic fails.
Plus, how can Darkseid be laughing, when he back is to the readers?

Also, a comic earlier Thanos was matching eyebeams with Darkseid.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/DCvsMarvel03-p0203.jpg

Oh wait! Thanos has a look on his face that makes it look like he's trying, and Darkseid is laughing!

Either way, if you're going to take Marvel vs DC into consideration, then Storm beat WW.

um bran, the writers. you remember me saying what the writers portrayed. Storm vs wonder woman was the fans. DS calls thanos a pale imitation. and thanos looks far worse off than DS did. DS wasn't even fighting hand to hand. he was tossing casual bolts around and not even raising much of a fuss about it.

The Runner curbstomps Supes

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
um bran, the writers. you remember me saying what the writers portrayed. Storm vs wonder woman was the fans. DS calls thanos a pale imitation. and thanos looks far worse off than DS did. DS wasn't even fighting hand to hand. he was tossing casual bolts around and not even raising much of a fuss about it. So, Storm has more fans than WW? That's even worse...

Because he calls him a pale imitation, that gives you the right to make up your own story?

Thanos just fought Lobo, got stabbed by BONE CLAW Wolverine ( ), and then fought his opponents.
Darkseid only had a tiny fight with Thanos.

What the hell does h2h have to do with anything?

Fact is, Thanos and Darkseid were equals in that comic. Whether you ignore it or not, it makes no difference.
Plus, Marvel/DC was a horrible piece of trash, and why you would bring it up in the first place, is beyond me...

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
So, Storm has more fans than WW? That's even worse...

Because he calls him a pale imitation, that gives you the right to make up your own story?

Thanos just fought Lobo, got stabbed by BONE CLAW Wolverine ( ), and then fought his opponents.
Darkseid only had a tiny fight with Thanos.

What the hell does h2h have to do with anything?

Fact is, Thanos and Darkseid were equals in that comic. Whether you ignore it or not, it makes no difference.
Plus, Marvel/DC was a horrible piece of trash, and why you would bring it up in the first place, is beyond me...
I brought it up to show what the writers think about DC characters in relation to marvel characters. And Storm is an xman buddy. Xmen are more popular than EVERYONE. Even superman. As I stated before, Superman has greater feats than Thanos ever had on his own.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I brought it up to show what the writers think about DC characters in relation to marvel characters. And Storm is an xman buddy. Xmen are more popular than EVERYONE. Even superman. As I stated before, Superman has greater feats than Thanos ever had on his own. Which was a great misinterpretation. Also, there was DC writers on the comic when Venom was knocking around Superman...

No X-Man is ever going to be more popular than Superman... ever.

Blah, blah, blah, I don't care. Whatever helps you get over Darkseid losing.
Nothing to do with Marvel/DC, though.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Which was a great misinterpretation. Also, there was DC writers on the comic when Venom was knocking around Superman...

No X-Man is ever going to be more popular than Superman... ever.

Blah, blah, blah, I don't care. Whatever helps you get over Darkseid losing.
Nothing to do with Marvel/DC, though.
LOL if you think I think of DS loses are actually NoN PIS NON CIS moments. This forum is intelligent enough to see beyond that. And yes, The xmen are much more popular than superman. Look at thier movie sales and his last movie sales. even thier worst movie did better than his. they ahve been selling more comics than he has for years. It's just how it goes.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
LOL if you think I think of DS loses are actually NoN PIS NON CIS moments. I don't care what his losses are, to be honest.

But, trying to hype up Superman to make the losses look legit, is horrible logic...

The rest of your post, is going into the "Best Posts" thread...

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
I don't care what his losses are, to be honest.

But, trying to hype up Superman to make the losses look legit, is horrible logic...

The rest of your post, is going into the "Best Posts" thread...

Is the truth somehow supposed to be insulting for me to say? LMAO bran. You are so funny. you really think you insult me. HAH. If you only knew. And I'm not hyping up superman for his loses to look anything. Superman clearly just does have superior feats to thanos.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Is the truth somehow supposed to be insulting for me to say? LMAO bran. You are so funny. you really think you insult me. HAH. If you only knew. And I'm not hyping up superman for his loses to look anything. Superman clearly just does have superior feats to thanos.
It's not truth, it's stupid...

Actually, you're hyping up Superman to make DS losing to him, be nothing.
You even said this before the Quanchi battle, and during.

Anyway, this has become pretty pointless.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Which was a great misinterpretation. Also, there was DC writers on the comic when Venom was knocking around Superman...

No X-Man is ever going to be more popular than Superman... ever.

Blah, blah, blah, I don't care. Whatever helps you get over Darkseid losing.
Nothing to do with Marvel/DC, though.

*coughwolverinecough*

ds losing to superman isnt a low showing... superman always wins in the end, because he's superman... it isnt jobbing or a slight on superman, its just how his character has always been set up...

Originally posted by pr1983
*coughwolverinecough*

ds losing to superman isnt a low showing... superman always wins in the end, because he's superman... it isnt jobbing or a slight on superman, its just how his character has always been set up...

(Loisng to a character that ability-wise the said entity should dominate for the sake of a storyline = jobbing)

Originally posted by pr1983
*coughwolverinecough* Wolverine is popular no doubt, but he's still not close to as popular as Superman.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Wolverine is popular no doubt, but he's still not close to as popular as Superman.
We'll see when his solo movie comes out if he tops the ROS.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
(Loisng to a character that ability-wise the said entity should dominate for the sake of a storyline = jobbing)

not when its superman... when he has to be, superman>everyone who isnt a god...

fair? maybe not, but i dont consider it jobbing...

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Wolverine is popular no doubt, but he's still not close to as popular as Superman.

he's been more popular than superman for a while now... logan is on par with spiderman in terms of popularity...

Originally posted by pr1983
*coughwolverinecough*

ds losing to superman isnt a low showing... superman always wins in the end, because he's superman... it isnt jobbing or a slight on superman, its just how his character has always been set up...


thats why i hate him

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Wolverine is popular no doubt, but he's still not close to as popular as Superman.

I'd say he's not as popular as Spider Man , or Batman.

Originally posted by Faceman
I'd say he's not as popular as Spider Man , or Batman.

If I recall correctly, Spiderman and Wolverine are Marvel's number one and two, and are both above all of DC in terms of popularity.

But I could be misremembering.

Originally posted by Soljer
If I recall correctly, Spiderman and Wolverine are Marvel's number one and two, and are both above all of DC in terms of popularity.

But I could be misremembering.

That could be true , but I'm referring to over all total popularity not just comic sales. I'm referring to household names. My grandmother has never bought a comic in her life , but she knows who Batman and Spider Man are. I really doubt she would know who Wolverine is.

Originally posted by pr1983
he's been more popular than superman for a while now... logan is on par with spiderman in terms of popularity...

Wolverine isn't more popular than Superman.

Where are you getting your sources?

Originally posted by batdude123
Wolverine isn't more popular than Superman.

Where are you getting your sources?
Sales. just read wizard. it tells you the top comic sales. The xmen and wolverine been kicking superman's asses for years. every now and then supers or bats cracks thier hold, but not for long.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Sales. just read wizard. it tells you the top comic sales. The xmen and wolverine been kicking superman's asses for years. every now and then supers or bats cracks thier hold, but not for long.

I'm not talking about sales for comics. I'm talking in general.

Superman is generally thought of when you hear the word superhero...





















































And 'Death of Superman' will always be the best selling graphic novel of all time. 313

Originally posted by batdude123
I'm not talking about sales for comics. I'm talking in general.

Superman is generally thought of when you hear the word superhero...





















































And 'Death of Superman' will always be the best selling graphic novel of all time. 313

It was so good. I think it was one of the turning points from me being a marvel zombie to a DC zombie.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It was so good. I think it was one of the turning points from me being a marvel zombie to a DC zombie.

That comic gave me a new respect for Superman.

One of the reasons why I became a fan of his.

Originally posted by batdude123
That comic gave me a new respect for Superman.

One of the reasons why I became a fan of his. I've always hated superman. It made me like doomsday and that lame Justice league. I am the biggest Ice fan. LMAO.

Originally posted by Faceman
That could be true , but I'm referring to over all total popularity not just comic sales. I'm referring to household names. My grandmother has never bought a comic in her life , but she knows who Batman and Spider Man are. I really doubt she would know who Wolverine is.

To be honest, characters that are named something-man are easier to recognise and remember than others. Also, it could be argued that spiderman and batman got quite a bit of exposure through cartoons and all, more than the x-men at least. Batman even got that cheesy series in which Robin and him would go around with "pow!" and "biff!". THose were the days.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Since they are runner's only feats, that is the level he is debated at.

As for you believing that Superman is equal to or greater than Surfer and/or Thanos, that's fine. That is a story for another thread. Most logical posters on here would disagree though. Those threads already exist, and I will gladly debate either surfer or Thanos against Superman if a newer thread were ever to be created, and to be honest, I would fancy my chances.

Just to check on the last point. If I were to use SS losing to Thanos as evidence of Thanos > Superman, that would be ABC logic, right? However, Superman defeating other herald or Thanos level beings would not be ABC logic? And those feats don't match up well against Superman's. Hence, Superman should win the fight. Correct?

And I don't see what you're reitterating my comment of ABC logic. I was pointing out many of the debators place Thanos over Supes due to some very poor ABC logic, when the same can be done the other way.

There's nothing that puts Thanos heads and shoulders over Superman in pure power and combat prowess. Supes can on panel match up pretty much every feat Thanos has done under his own power. And then has hundreds on top that Thanos can't match. But you can't convice all the 'Thanos wins, SUPERMAN SUCKS!!!" people of that. And if someone did bother? Well, Superman and DC comics are just too powerful, and suck.

Originally posted by Juntai
And those feats don't match up well against Superman's. Hence, Superman should win the fight. Correct?

And I don't see what you're reitterating my comment of ABC logic. I was pointing out many of the debators place Thanos over Supes due to some very poor ABC logic, when the same can be done the other way.

There's nothing that puts Thanos heads and shoulders over Superman in pure power and combat prowess. Supes can on panel match up pretty much every feat Thanos has done under his own power. And then has hundreds on top that Thanos can't match. But you can't convice all the 'Thanos wins, SUPERMAN SUCKS!!!" people of that. And if someone did bother? Well, Superman and DC comics are just too powerful, and suck.

Based on quality or quantity? I concede the quantity portion. Lemme know about the quality part.

I pointed out your comment on ABC logic simply because the flaw in using such logic applies both to the argument of runner > surfer and therefore runner > superman as well as the argument of superman > herald level and therefore > surfer. You can't have one without the other. Superman has A LOT of feats. How often does he turn the wheels of Mageddon? Let's use sports. A basketball player whose career spans twenty years is inevitably going to have games in which he racks up more points than he should. Should that player be judged on those games or on the average of said career over twenty years? If Thanos has half a century as a headliner to accumulate feats, you can then match the two together. Even as it stands, Thanos' highest feats include achieving ultimate power thrice.

As far as DC comics being too powerful, it's a wash in my opinion. I look at evidence, not companies.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Based on quality or quantity? I concede the quantity portion. Lemme know about the quality part.

I pointed out your comment on ABC logic simply because the flaw in using such logic applies both to the argument of runner > surfer and therefore runner > superman as well as the argument of superman > herald level and therefore > surfer. You can't have one without the other. Superman has A LOT of feats. How often does he turn the wheels of Mageddon? Let's use sports. A basketball player whose career spans twenty years is inevitably going to have games in which he racks up more points than he should. Should that player be judged on those games or on the average of said career over twenty years? If Thanos has half a century as a headliner to accumulate feats, you can then match the two together. Even as it stands, Thanos' highest feats include achieving ultimate power thrice.

As far as DC comics being too powerful, it's a wash in my opinion. I look at evidence, not companies. Quantity and quality, Superman clearly has the advantage in the feat department entirely. What has he done that Superman hasn't accomplished similarly on an equal or greater level?

I was pointing out the flaw in the logic as well, so to reitterate my point back at me was fairly moot.

I'm also not sure what you're getting at about Thanos' feats involving attaining ultimate type of power, beause that's beyond his personal powerset. In fact, they're not even 'feats' so much as plotlines in that regard.

Originally posted by Juntai


I'm also not sure what you're getting at about Thanos' feats involving attaining ultimate type of power, beause that's beyond his personal powerset. In fact, they're not even 'feats' so much as plotlines in that regard.

I think the point he was trying to make is that you need to average feats.

Originally posted by Juntai
Supes can on panel match up pretty much every feat Thanos has done under his own power. And then has hundreds on top that Thanos can't match.
Exactly. I always said that Superman is at least as durable, way stronger (feats people, feats !) and a gazillion times faster, but for some strange, unknown reason, people think Thanos will just walk over Superman.

It would be a very cool fight though, that's for sure. I would be cheering for Thanos, but my money is on Superman.

Originally posted by Juntai
Quantity and quality, Superman clearly has the advantage in the feat department entirely. What has he done that Superman hasn't accomplished similarly on an equal or greater level?

I was pointing out the flaw in the logic as well, so to reitterate my point back at me was fairly moot.

I'm also not sure what you're getting at about Thanos' feats involving attaining ultimate type of power, beause that's beyond his personal powerset. In fact, they're not even 'feats' so much as plotlines in that regard.

Average quality of Superman's feats are higher than beating Surfer more easily than Shaq beats a three year old? I am not asking whether or not Superman has done it before. I am asking how often he does it.

You said:



I say Runner doing those things places him in a tier above herald. If that is ABC logic, everything you claim about Superman is ABC as well. Moot, maybe. Correct, definitely.

Prep and execution of plans is to Thanos what brawling and fisticuffs is to Superman. If it's within his character to bring a gun to a knife-fight, that is his MO. The tool matters not. Only the execution does.

Not feats but plotlines? Every feat in comics is the result of a story, whether essential or filler. Unless you are claiming that IG/HOTU etc were all examples of deus ex machina.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Average quality of Superman's feats are higher than beating Surfer more easily than Shaq beats a three year old? I am not asking whether or not Superman has done it before. I am asking how often he does it.

You said:



I say Runner doing those things places him in a tier above herald. If that is ABC logic, everything you claim about Superman is ABC as well. Moot, maybe. Correct, definitely.

Prep and execution of plans is to Thanos what brawling and fisticuffs is to Superman. If it's within his character to bring a gun to a knife-fight, that is his MO. The tool matters not. Only the execution does.

Not feats but plotlines? Every feat in comics is the result of a story, whether essential or filler. Unless you are claiming that IG/HOTU etc were all examples of deus ex machina. You must be slow. Let me try this again....I was clearly making those points with INTENDED use of similar ABC logic, scoffing at what you and others were doing. The faults in the logic you were using a couple pages ago. Telling me I'm doing that very thing is definately moot, because it's fully intended

They would be classified under specifically powered up versions of the character, Thanos doesn't have those items in a thread, it is irrelivent to the discussion here. Thanos can't do that under normal circumstances in a forum thread battle unless specifically given the powerup by the thread starter. It's an outside force, not a feat performed by Thanos' character. No one tries to argue that Hal Jordan is the reality wiping Zero Hour version whenever "Green Lantern" is put into a thread. Him smashing groups of GLs on the way to the battery? Feats. Him obtaining ultimate power? Not so much, when considering what is debatable material on the forum. You're just going way off base and making this tiresome very quickly with backwards debating.

Prep might be Thanos' greatest tool, but he doesn't/wouldn't have any, unless specifically given some. He is merely his base character. Show me Thanos matching Superman's strength, speed, agility, and combat prowess on the fly should the two meet randomly. What are his feats in these areas not involving prep or tech that he wouldn't have in a forum scenario? For every showing you could come up with, likely Superman has one similar to it, or one better. Regular Superman just cutting off the mental blocks - especially given the bloodlusted rule. And that's exactly my point about him not being head and shoulders over Superman. And Runner certainly doesn't have the feats for me to believe he is either.

Originally posted by Juntai
You must be slow. Let me try this again....I was clearly making those points with INTENDED use of similar ABC logic, scoffing at what you and others were doing. The faults in the logic you were using a couple pages ago. Telling me I'm doing that very thing is definately moot, because it's fully intended

They would be classified under specifically powered up versions of the character, Thanos doesn't have those items in a thread, it is irrelivent to the discussion here. Thanos can't do that under normal circumstances in a forum thread battle unless specifically given the powerup by the thread starter. It's an outside force, not a feat performed by Thanos' character. No one tries to argue that Hal Jordan is the reality wiping Zero Hour version whenever "Green Lantern" is put into a thread, you're just going way off base and making this tiresome very quickly with backwards debating.

Prep might be Thanos' greatest tool, but he doesn't/wouldn't have any, unless specifically given some. He is merely his base character. Show me Thanos matching Superman's strength, speed, agility, and combat prowess on the fly should the two meet randomly. What are his feats in these areas not involving prep or tech that he wouldn't have in a forum scenario? For every showing you could come up with, likely Superman has one similar to it, or one better. Regular Superman just cutting off the mental blocks - especially given the bloodlusted rule. And that's exactly my point about him not being head and shoulders over Superman.

Which is a point I was making earlier that Most writers tend to agree that DC"s heroes are more powerful than Marvel's. A DC hero in Marvel would likely be on par with Marvel Villians. Which usually are more DCesque.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Which is a point I was making earlier that Most writers tend to agree that DC"s heroes are more powerful than Marvel's. A DC hero in Marvel would likely be on par with Marvel Villians. Which usually are more DCesque. I agree with this insomuch as it refers to Marvel's popular heroes such as the FF, many of the Avengers, and the X-Men.

Your Marvel cosmic heroes are going to be just as powerful as their DC counterparts (and outside of the GLs and New Gods, generally more powerful).

In the end, it all evens out. DC generally has more powerful heroes but this is offset by Marvel's powerful cosmic heroes.

It's funny how Silver Surfer beat the Champion, an elder who dedicated his life to fighting, but lost to the Runner, a golden boy smiley-jogger.

I'd like to see a rematch where surfer is prepared for that emotion power of the Runner's.

Originally posted by Alfheim
First of all.

http://img143.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc24&image=4c944_forg3.jpg

That doesnt look like hes hauling ass at all....that looks like hes going really slow. I mean look it and the lines and the expression on his face.....in fact I think I think I can see a cigarette....yeah he actually stopped to take a smoke. He looks totally relaxed.

As for the speed we dont know exactly how fast hes going but you know what. Heralds can fly faster than the speed of light.....hes fighting Thanos......he knows if he loses the battle theres a good possibility he will die....hes flying towards him...so....hes probably flying as fast as possible!!!!!! Which is really fast...bloody obvious!

An athelete running from a bear is going to run as fast as possible. We may not know exactly how fast hes running but we know hes going to be running as fast as he possibly can within his capability. The inside cover of a magazine or something @ Scan?

Originally posted by Juntai
The inside cover of a magazine or something @ Scan?

I dont know what your going on about.