Darkseid vs. Adam Warlock

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Endless Mike
As shown in Death of the New Gods #2, it's beyond the power of Darkseid or anyone on Apokolips or New Genesis to rip someone's soul out of their body, and it is an effective way to kill New Gods.

So could Adam Warlock with the Soul Gem beat Darkseid?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Endless Mike
As shown in Death of the New Gods #2, it's beyond the power of Darkseid or anyone on Apokolips or New Genesis to rip someone's soul out of their body, and it is an effective way to kill New Gods.

So could Adam Warlock with the Soul Gem beat Darkseid?
NO, It was said that it was beyond thier power to rip thier souls that way. DS has always been shown to be able to kill and then ressurect at his leisure. Thus implying he can take the souls and return them

Bad Ash231
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So could Adam Warlock with the Soul Gem beat Darkseid?

Yes.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Yes.

How so when Mr. Miracle with the Ale could have easily resurrected barda? DS constantly has his piece of the ALE up and running. I doubt the soul gem is going to work on DS. Not enough to kill in the way that the son of the SOURCE is doing.

Jimmy-Chan
Back when Orion's body and soul were bonded to Desaad's, Darkseid lifted him up and was preparing to OE him before Takion convinced him not to. DS stated that in doing so, he would be "destroying one soul and freeing another."

quanchi112
Adam Warlock beat Mephisto in his own realm with this gem. Of course Warlock wins when he uses the gem.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by quanchi112
Adam Warlock beat Mephisto in his own realm with this gem. Of course Warlock wins when he uses the gem.

Mephisto would get beaten by DS too. DS>>Eclipso

Eclipso>>mephisto.

And DS has a piece of the ALE. You fail.

Bransolute
Current Eclipso blows balls...

Jimmy-Chan
Mephisto is one of the few characters who's about as inconsistent as Darkseid. I'm sure Warlock could beat Darkseid with the soul steal, but normally I don't think he'd use it. And of course the wipeouts could end the fight just as easily.

Jimmy-Chan
Originally posted by Bransolute
Current Eclipso blows balls...


Although she did manage to control The Spectre ...

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Mephisto would get beaten by DS too. DS>>Eclipso

Eclipso>>mephisto.

And DS has a piece of the ALE. You fail. Darkseid in mephistos ealm would get bitchslapped. Mephisto was hanging with Galactus at another time in his own realm. Oh nver I wish youd read half the things you claim to know about or at least scan over it briefly.

Bad Ash231
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And DS has a piece of the ALE. You fail.

And he has done... what with it?

Bouboumaster
Mephisto statlemate Galactus until Galactus begin to devour the Hell.

Galactus >>>>>>>> Darkseid.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Although she did manage to control The Spectre ... The spectre was beyond retarded in that storyline. He was going to attempt to kill himself if he succeeded.

Val
Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Although she did manage to control The Spectre ...
Context lulz

Mr.Biscuits
Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Although she did manage to control The Spectre ...
She seduced him,that has nothing to do with her current power level.

If This was the old Male Eclipso he would of just outright controlled the Spectre.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
And he has done... what with it?

Amped Granny Goodness to more than skyfather lvls. Given Kalibak a psychich version of his Omegas. Taken control of the Shadow demons. the ones who could pwn precrisis heroes. Resurrected his entire elite guard.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Mephisto statlemate Galactus until Galactus begin to devour the Hell.

Galactus >>>>>>>> Darkseid. I beat you to mentioning Galactus by one minute. Nice job though,truly great minds think alike.

smile

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr.Biscuits
She seduced him,that has nothing to do with her current power level.

If This was the old Male Eclipso he would of just outright controlled the Spectre.

Female Eclipso is still more powerful than Black Mary, who is yet in still more powerful than rooms full of mages.

Black Mary is above the top tier by a fair bit, and Eclipso is yet still above her.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Mephisto statlemate Galactus until Galactus begin to devour the Hell.

Galactus >>>>>>>> Darkseid.
Galactus has gotten his ass beaten by Thing and company, Thor, Ect. Mephisto also got bitched by Silver surfer.

Silver Surfer=Galactus? LMAO.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Galactus has gotten his ass beaten by Thing and company, Thor, Ect. Mephisto also got bitched by Silver surfer.

Silver Surfer=Galactus? LMAO. Just cuz the bad guy lost doesnt mean he lost straight up. Thats the difference with you and me. How did the thing and company beat him? Did he punch him in the face for the win and beat him straight up? Come on nver answer the question.

fatgogeta
Darkseid has so many ways to beat Adam Warlock, and Adam has just one way to beat Darkseid. So could the Soul Rip work on DS? Probably. Does Warlock still die horribly 9 out of 10 times he fights Darkseid? thumbsup

Bransolute
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Black Mary is above the top tier by a fair bit, and Eclipso is yet still above her. Haha...
What exactly has she done?

Because I'm tired of hearing her being in the Trans based on what you say, and then saying BA is far above her...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Galactus has gotten his ass beaten by Thing and company, Thor, Ect. Mephisto also got bitched by Silver surfer.

Silver Surfer=Galactus? LMAO. Originally posted by Val
Context lulz

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by quanchi112
Just cuz the bad guy lost doesnt mean he lost straight up. Thats the difference with you and me. How did the thing and company beat him? Did he punch him in the face for the win and beat him straight up? Come on nver answer the question.

Please shut up. Becuz you are trying to use the same logic I've said about DS to which you dismiss. Just cuz DS lost doesn't mean he lost str8 up. That's the difference between you and me. How did Superman beat up DS? LMAO. Come on quan answer the question.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Please shut up. Becuz you are trying to use the same logic I've said about DS to which you dismiss. Just cuz DS lost doesn't mean he lost str8 up. That's the difference between you and me. How did Superman beat up DS? LMAO. Come on quan answer the question. He beat him straight up in apokolips now. No story elements or special circumstances just Darkseid begging for quarter becuz he got his head caved in. I win, you lose.

stick out tongue

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bransolute
Haha...
What exactly has she done?

Because I'm tired of hearing her being in the Trans based on what you say, and then saying BA is far above her... Dont expect an answer bran becuz as you and I both know nver avoids more questions than he answers.

fatgogeta
You two really need to stop turning EVERYTHING into Darkseid versus Thanos.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Bransolute
Haha...
What exactly has she done?

Because I'm tired of hearing her being in the Trans based on what you say, and then saying BA is far above her...

Um. I've never said BA is above her. She has a portion of his power. She uses it differently. We already know that BA when he uses his power smashes in the spectre's face. how ever briefly.

quanchi112
Originally posted by fatgogeta
You two really need to stop turning EVERYTHING into Darkseid versus Thanos. You may be onto something here.

Ok back on topic adam warlock wins.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dont expect an answer bran becuz as you and I both know nver avoids more questions than he answers.

shut up.

Jimmy-Chan
Originally posted by Mr.Biscuits
She seduced him,that has nothing to do with her current power level.

If This was the old Male Eclipso he would of just outright controlled the Spectre.


She didn't just "seduce" him. It's not like The Spectre minds any hot pair of T n A he sees. I recall it being stated that he was controlled, not just doing what he felt like. She controlled him thanks to her powers and his lack of a host. It's not as impressive as it would have been had The Spectre had a host, but it's still a pretty good feat.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by quanchi112
He beat him straight up in apokolips now. No story elements or special circumstances just Darkseid begging for quarter becuz he got his head caved in. I win, you lose.

stick out tongue

LMAO. One win. To the many jimmy listed. You have failed. And Galactus is an uber jobber.

Bransolute
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um. I've never said BA is above her. She has a portion of his power. She uses it differently. We already know that BA when he uses his power smashes in the spectre's face. how ever briefly. Dodge. Dodge. Dodge.
smile

Val
Originally posted by fatgogeta
You two really need to stop turning EVERYTHING into Darkseid versus Thanos.
FTW

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bransolute
Dodge. Dodge. Dodge.
smile That is all he does when he sees a question. Post gibberish and hope everyone forgets their name which we usually do after reading one of his posts.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
LMAO. One win. To the many jimmy listed. You have failed. And Galactus is an uber jobber. Most of Darkseids wins were eons ago. I dont count his cheapshot that landed superman into the sourcewall as a win. i count it as a cheapshot that benefited Darkseid becuz they were right next to the sourcewall.

Kurash
sigh, if only the threads about DS and Thanos stopped for a day

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurash
sigh, if only the threads about DS and Thanos stopped for a day It does look like an eternal battle on here.

Kurash
Originally posted by quanchi112
It does look like an eternal battle on here.

you would think it was by reading it

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurash
you would think it was by reading it It will die down. But the father of Darkseid just showed up jimmy chan. So of course this is going go get brought up so I get a chance to hear his take on things.

HueyFreeman
Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
She didn't just "seduce" him. It's not like The Spectre minds any hot pair of T n A he sees. I recall it being stated that he was controlled, not just doing what he felt like. She controlled him thanks to her powers and his lack of a host. It's not as impressive as it would have been had The Spectre had a host, but it's still a pretty good feat. No she didn't. It was similar to Thors madness. She kept telling him his directives and he believed her. Thats like if I coercied a 6 year old into believing that stealing is OK. Not really impressive.

Jimmy-Chan
Originally posted by HueyFreeman
No she didn't. It was similar to Thors madness. She kept telling him his directives and he believed her. Like me coercing a 6 year old into believing that stealing is OK. Not really impressive.



I can't find the issues right now, but the way I remember it during the JSA tie in they were talking about taking Eclipso out to free The Spectre and either SHAZAM or Nabu said something to the effect of him being more vulnerable to her control due to his lack of a host. I know she didn't outright possess him but I remember it as her actually using her powers to influence him.

HueyFreeman
Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
I can't find the issues right now, but the way I remember it during the JSA tie in they were talking about taking Eclipso out to free The Spectre and either SHAZAM or Nabu said something to the effect of him being more vulnerable to her control due to his lack of a host. I know she didn't outright possess him but I remember it as her actually using her powers to influence him. In the beginning of the Vengeance story we see the Spectre in the sky pondering what to do with Eclipse talking him into believing how evil magic is.

Jimmy-Chan
I remember that. It was my interpretation that she used her powers to alter his perspective , as in to actually make him beleive what she said so wholeheartedly. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought that either SHAZAM or Nabu said something to the effect of him being more vulnerable to Eclipso's influence due to losing his host.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Adam Warlock beat Mephisto in his own realm with this gem. Of course Warlock wins when he uses the gem.

Black Panther has done the same.

Thor has stalemated him.

Surfer has overpowered him.

Mephisto...blows.

And remember, Darkseid created the Black Diamond and is immune to eclipso's power. While the current Eclipso is, say, only powerful enough to take on Shadowpact or something, the original was taking on all kinds of heroes in his crossover event.

TricksterPriest
Eclipso used to BE the Spectre. That's why she could seduce and convince him to follow her.

Laminator_X
Has anyone ever stood up to the Soul-Rip? I cant think of anyone. He doesn't use it often, but there's not much Warlock I haven't read, and the only time I can think of it failing was against Count Abyss, who didn't have a soul to steal.

TricksterPriest
I'm pretty sure Darkseid's soul is protected by the Source, so no soul rip. And before someone mentions DOTNG, I think Nvr's right about the killer being empowered by the Source.

Desaad
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Has anyone ever stood up to the Soul-Rip? I cant think of anyone. He doesn't use it often, but there's not much Warlock I haven't read, and the only time I can think of it failing was against Count Abyss, who didn't have a soul to steal.

He always feared using it on Thanos, because supposedly Thanos could just take over Warlock's body.

This was bolstered by the time that he absorbed Warrior's soul. Despite the fact that the creature didn't even have a soul, per se, and wasn't the true Thanos (a much weaker will, as alluded to by Thanos) Adam was almost overwhelmed, and would have been had it not been for the intervention of the real Thanos.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
Black Panther has done the same.

Thor has stalemated him.

Surfer has overpowered him.

Mephisto...blows.

And remember, Darkseid created the Black Diamond and is immune to eclipso's power. While the current Eclipso is, say, only powerful enough to take on Shadowpact or something, the original was taking on all kinds of heroes in his crossover event. Darkseid would still lose to Mephisto in his own realm. Regardless hes still pretty powerful in his own realm and while he has a crapload of low showings he is still beating Darkseid here. But this isnt about Mephisto anyways.


Warlock for the win.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm pretty sure Darkseid's soul is protected by the Source, so no soul rip. And before someone mentions DOTNG, I think Nvr's right about the killer being empowered by the Source. No the source isnt protecting him. This is on neutral ground and isnt in the dc universe.

gogogadgetgo
soul steal for the win i guess (if it works, probably would). but for ds taking over aw's body(which he probably would also)...ah well, you win some then you lose some i suppose.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Has anyone ever stood up to the Soul-Rip? I cant think of anyone. He doesn't use it often, but there's not much Warlock I haven't read, and the only time I can think of it failing was against Count Abyss, who didn't have a soul to steal.

It has failed against Galactus as well.

Laminator_X
Originally posted by Utrigita
It has failed against Galactus as well.

When did he try that?

FearOfBlood
With the soul gem laughing

Darkseid (any version) loses any fight.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Laminator_X
When did he try that?

I believe it was in the series where Magus had taken control of the Gauntlet ore was it Nemora... Not sure but I remember him saying that a Soul Steal attack wouldn't have any effect against Galactus.

Tenebrous
Originally posted by Laminator_X
When did he try that?

I posted this in the Galactus respect thread. Adam Warlock can't use the soul gem on big G because big G has no soul...at least no soul within the realm of the gem's powers.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Thanos discusses how, when he had the Heart of the Infinite, he could have dispatched Galactus with ease. But without the Heart, Thanos explains that his personal power is "Lilliputian" compared to Galactus' might

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3394/thanos0222rd4.th.jpg

More interesting however is Thanos asking Adam Warlock if he can use the Soul Gem against Galactus. Warlock says he can't, because he senses

"no soul within yonder vessel. Galactus most likely has a spirit similar to Eternity's and Infinity's. Beyond the Gem's power.

So there you have it...Galactus is immune to the Infinity Gem that governs the Soul.


that scan is from thanos #3.

and for once marvel is actually consistent. way before the whole infinity gauntlet affair, the in-betweener tried to kill galactus, but he failed. during their big fight, the in-betweener had the soul gem. we know it's the soul gem because thanos goes to claim the soul gem from the in-betweener in thanos quest. the soul gem has never worked on galactus

Utrigita
Originally posted by Tenebrous
I posted this in the Galactus respect thread. Adam Warlock can't use the soul gem on big G because big G has no soul...at least no soul within the realm of the gem's powers.



that scan is from thanos #3.

and for once marvel is actually consistent. way before the whole infinity gauntlet affair, the in-betweener tried to kill galactus, but he failed. during their big fight, the in-betweener had the soul gem. we know it's the soul gem because thanos goes to claim the soul gem from the in-betweener in thanos quest. the soul gem has never worked on galactus

Thanks Tenebrous couldn't quiet remember from where it was thumb up

Soljer
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm pretty sure Darkseid's soul is protected by the Source, so no soul rip. And before someone mentions DOTNG, I think Nvr's right about the killer being empowered by the Source.

Evidence. No? Thought not.

At least Desaad came up with a plausible defense? stick out tongue.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid would still lose to Mephisto in his own realm. Regardless hes still pretty powerful in his own realm and while he has a crapload of low showings he is still beating Darkseid here.

I'm sorry, but thats really not an argument.

Thats like me saying "Well, Paste Pot Pete has a crapload of low showings, but Thanos isn't going to beat him if he's got his glue guns!"

Clearly top tiers and below have actually beaten Mephisto. I see no reason to believe that he couldn't be beaten again.

Laminator_X
Originally posted by Tenebrous
I posted this in the Galactus respect thread. Adam Warlock can't use the soul gem on big G because big G has no soul...at least no soul within the realm of the gem's powers.



that scan is from thanos #3.

and for once marvel is actually consistent. way before the whole infinity gauntlet affair, the in-betweener tried to kill galactus, but he failed. during their big fight, the in-betweener had the soul gem. we know it's the soul gem because thanos goes to claim the soul gem from the in-betweener in thanos quest. the soul gem has never worked on galactus

Thanks for clearing that up.

The New Gods OTOH, clearly do have souls which can be rather spectacularly removed from their bodies.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Thanks for clearing that up.

The New Gods OTOH, clearly do have souls which can be rather spectacularly removed from their bodies.

Yes, by a being who is the son of the source. The new Gods get thier very power from the source. That's like saying Dr. strange can remove Diana's Magic becuz the greek god's can.

Laminator_X
What do you mean by this "son of the source" business? So far it seems to me they've just been dropping hints about the Infinity Man and the Forever People being involved. Have I missed something?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Laminator_X
What do you mean by this "son of the source" business? So far it seems to me they've just been dropping hints about the Infinity Man and the Forever People being involved. Have I missed something?
DO you know how powerful the IM really is? So powerful that DS way back when knew his threat lvl.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DO you know how powerful the IM really is? So powerful that DS way back when knew his threat lvl. Do you ever know what you are talking about? All you spew is new gods propaganda.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you ever know what you are talking about? All you spew is new gods propaganda.
Shut up. YOu obviously don't know anything about the son of the source, who the IM really is and you are get on my nerves with your new god hate. Get lost.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Shut up. YOu obviously don't know anything about the son of the source, who the IM really is and you are get on my nerves with your new god hate. Get lost. All you do is post something you heard from someone I bet you havent read all this stuff that you keep talking about. I like the new gods but have to keep you in check with your new god worship.

I have news for you they are going to die and you better hope superman does do the deed on old darkseid becuz youll never hear the end of it.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by quanchi112
All you do is post something you heard from someone I bet you havent read all this stuff that you keep talking about. I like the new gods but have to keep you in check with your new god worship.

I have news for you they are going to die and you better hope superman does do the deed on old darkseid becuz youll never hear the end of it.

IF superman does kill DS, which doesn't make sense, it will be after DS is depowered of his ale and omegas. And I didnt' hear anything from anyone else you darter. I'm the one who has been saying the son of the source. Becuz I unlike you, do research on the new gods. I actually like them, and try and find out tid bits of info.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IF superman does kill DS, which doesn't make sense, it will be after DS is depowered of his ale and omegas. And I didnt' hear anything from anyone else you darter. I'm the one who has been saying the son of the source. Becuz I unlike you, do research on the new gods. I actually like them, and try and find out tid bits of info. If superman does kill ds run cuz im coming for you and will be laughing the entire time. You dont do research you take other peoples information and post it out of context.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by quanchi112
If superman does kill ds run cuz im coming for you and will be laughing the entire time. You dont do research you take other peoples information and post it out of context.

Shut the hell up. You can't even rationalize context. You see what you want, when you want, for some retarded boner to discredit Jack Kirby's Fourth World.

quanchi112
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Shut the hell up. You can't even rationalize context. You see what you want, when you want, for some retarded boner to discredit Jack Kirby's Fourth World. Ds belongs to dc same as Thanos belongs to marvel. Jim starlin gets to write Ds's death maybe so lets just wait and see what happens.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dont expect an answer bran becuz as you and I both know nver avoids more questions than he answers.




yes

Laminator_X
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DO you know how powerful the IM really is? So powerful that DS way back when knew his threat lvl.

Isn't the Infinity-Man Darkseid's brother, Drax? I figured he was up there with Darkseid and Highfather. What I don't get is what you mean by "son of the Source." He's the son of Yuga-Kahn, same as Darkseid, right?

Taruuu!

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Isn't the Infinity-Man Darkseid's brother, Drax? I figured he was up there with Darkseid and Highfather. What I don't get is what you mean by "son of the Source." He's the son of Yuga-Kahn, same as Darkseid, right?

Taruuu!

actually there is going to be a big surprise at who the source really is and who it's kid is. I can't give much more than that cuz that is all I can find.

TricksterPriest
It better not be Jimmy Olsen.............ermm

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It better not be Jimmy Olsen.............ermm

That would suck monkey balls. I'd rather it be superman. Or Infinity Man.

The Great Galen
DS wins, son of source is pretty powerful obviously. I actually like Adam a lot but he cant beat DS...especially the current DS.

Desaad
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Isn't the Infinity-Man Darkseid's brother, Drax? I figured he was up there with Darkseid and Highfather. What I don't get is what you mean by "son of the Source." He's the son of Yuga-Kahn, same as Darkseid, right?

Taruuu!

I'm afraid nvr doesn't really have any idea who the "Son of the Source" is. No one does, save for Starlin and DC editorial.

What he is going off of is some vague comments in an interview or two from Starlin, saying that fans are going to go crazy (negatively) over what he does, and who he reveals to be the son of the source.

But yeah, there is no evidence that Infinity Man himself is this creature...though he very well could be.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Desaad
I'm afraid nvr doesn't really have any idea who the "Son of the Source" is. No one does, save for Starlin and DC editorial.

What he is going off of is some vague comments in an interview or two from Starlin, saying that fans are going to go crazy (negatively) over what he does, and who he reveals to be the son of the source.

But yeah, there is no evidence that Infinity Man himself is this creature...though he very well could be.

I think I said I didn't know who the son of the source was. Quite a few times. I think he understood me saying that.

Rewmac
Darkseid....In comics he would loose probably, but on KMC he wins.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Rewmac
Darkseid....In comics he would loose probably, but on KMC he wins.

In comics? You think DC would let a character with a portion of the ALE and a repower up lose to a character like Adam?

Rewmac
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
In comics? You think DC would let a character with a portion of the ALE and a repower up lose to a character like Adam? He is mostly shitwritten in the past years. So yeah.

Desaad
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I think I said I didn't know who the son of the source was. Quite a few times. I think he understood me saying that.

Then why did your first post on the subject imply that Infinity Man, who is ripping the Gods' souls from their bodies, is the son of the Source?

TricksterPriest
If it's not Infinity Man, then at least we know who's doing the dirty work. It could be Infinity Man, but it's more likely that IM is the hitman for someone bigger.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Desaad
Then why did your first post on the subject imply that Infinity Man, who is ripping the Gods' souls from their bodies, is the son of the Source?

Um no. Someone asked who the son of the source was. And I stated that I didnt' have the info. All I could find was that it was the son of the source and no further info was available.

Desaad
Haha, you really don't get it.

Someone said that Infinity Man was ripping the souls out of people. That is plainly obvious, and Starlin has admitted as much.

Then you said the souls were being ripped out by the son of the source.

See where I'm taking this?

TricksterPriest
Possible. But unlikely. I'd be disappointed with Starlin if he botches this.

Desaad
Starlin has already botched it. He botched it when he did Cosmic Odyssey. He botched it in issue 2 when he again mentioned the Anti Life Entity. He botched it AGAIN when he turned Orion into a mad dog in issue 2. He's botched it in every interview discussing the New Gods.

He doesn't get them. He STILL doesn't get them.

Jimmy-Chan
Morrison should've gotten the assignment. I think he said in an interview something about plans to do something with them in a year or so, disregarding DOTNG. Not sure how realistic his plans are. Maybe he can take over and make something out of the "Fifth World."

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Morrison should've gotten the assignment. I think he said in an interview something about plans to do something with them in a year or so, disregarding DOTNG. Not sure how realistic his plans are. Maybe he can take over and make something out of the "Fifth World."

Now that I would love. love Morrison DOES get them and he's one of the few writers to really give them respect. He didn't do a great Orion, but I think he's got a better idea on how to write him.

Bouboumaster
You said that Surfer = Galactus, Nvr?

If you take that in context, we could repeal that Darkseid got his ass whipped by Sups some times. What a shame.

Warlock would handle teh big blue ass like a woman in a Ron Jeremy's movie.

Desaad
Uh, he is doing something with them.

Its called Final Crisis.

Starlin has specifically said that Grant Morrison has plans for them, and this mini is a lead up to that.

But "them" is relative, as I suspect it will be some reincarnated version of them.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
Uh, he is doing something with them.

Its called Final Crisis.

Starlin has specifically said that Grant Morrison has plans for them, and this mini is a lead up to that.

But "them" is relative, as I suspect it will be some reincarnated version of them. Dammit I just hope Darkseid comes back with a few others. I hope they bring in the fifth world and have a new villain.

In the next week or two im going to catch up on countdown and all this.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dammit I just hope Darkseid comes back with a few others. I hope they bring in the fifth world and have a new villain.

In the next week or two im going to catch up on countdown and all this.

Let us just say that Desaad got a BIG powerup recently. smile

Thanos and his forces are goin' down like tumblin' blocks, bay-bay!

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by Desaad
Let us just say that Desaad got a BIG powerup recently. smile

Thanos and his forces are goin' down like tumblin' blocks, bay-bay!

He's not gonna keep that one. But he's probably going to pull some very impressive feats.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
Let us just say that Desaad got a BIG powerup recently. smile

Thanos and his forces are goin' down like tumblin' blocks, bay-bay! I still find it hard to believe that you think Darkseid could out think Thanos in an all out war? But iwth regards to countdown I definitely will have to catch up becuz from what I hear Darkseid is really manipulating the shit outta lots of characters.

TricksterPriest
They are intellectual peers. And Starlin Thanos wasn't that much smarter than Darkseid.

Desaad
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He's not gonna keep that one. But he's probably going to pull some very impressive feats.

No, he won't.

But if he has done it once, he could very well do it again. And in a situation where both Thanos and Darkseid have prep to build up their forces, its not inconceivable that such a thing could happen.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
I still find it hard to believe that you think Darkseid could out think Thanos in an all out war? But iwth regards to countdown I definitely will have to catch up becuz from what I hear Darkseid is really manipulating the shit outta lots of characters.

I do.

Don't worry. If we end up doing this, try to go through my collection and pick my favorite plans. I've already taken the liberty of scanning up a couple of good tricksy schemes he's concocted. Most of the rest I suspect I'll describe, since it would take too long to spell them all out.

But yes, Darkseid is manipulating virtually every thread of Countdown. Its subtle, its clever, its impossible to know to what end he is doing all this but it is big and it is sinister.

In conclusion...it's Darkseid. smile

Desaad
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
They are intellectual peers. And Starlin Thanos wasn't that much smarter than Darkseid.

He wasn't smarter at all.

He succeeded more, sure, but in terms of genuine intelligence of his schemes, he doesn't have what Darkseid has.

And Darkseid's forces and technology are greater, to boot.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
I do.

Don't worry. If we end up doing this, try to go through my collection and pick my favorite plans. I've already taken the liberty of scanning up a couple of good tricksy schemes he's concocted. Most of the rest I suspect I'll describe, since it would take too long to spell them all out.

But yes, Darkseid is manipulating virtually every thread of Countdown. Its subtle, its clever, its impossible to know to what end he is doing all this but it is big and it is sinister.

In conclusion...it's Darkseid. smile Yes this damn countdown crap I really dont know how masterful it is until I read it. When is countdown over I feel we should do the debate after its over and not in the middle of this story. What do you think?

TricksterPriest
The chessboard alone shows how far his reach extends.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Darkseid/newgodsdying.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Darkseid/darkseidmanipulation.jpg

That green hooded guy in the 2nd pic is either Ragman or the Spectre.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
He wasn't smarter at all.

He succeeded more, sure, but in terms of genuine intelligence of his schemes, he doesn't have what Darkseid has.

And Darkseid's forces and technology are greater, to boot. Just becuz his schemes were more complicated as doesnt mean hes smarter. You either accomplish what you set out to do or you dont. Darkseid does have more resources but thats becuz Thanos doesnt need all that.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes this damn countdown crap I really dont know how masterful it is until I read it. When is countdown over I feel we should do the debate after its over and not in the middle of this story. What do you think?

Its over in, what, 6 months? Way too long.

Even though the full extent of Darkseid's schemes probably won't be known for a while, I'm fine with what has been shown already; that he's been manipulating the moniters, every hero and every villain in Countdown into position for something important to him.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Just becuz his schemes were more complicated as doesnt mean hes smarter. You either accomplish what you set out to do or you dont. Darkseid does have more resources but thats becuz Thanos doesnt need all that.

Thanos doesn't have all that because Thanos' competition is brain dead.

We've been through this.

If am battling Bobby Fisher in chess and make a decent showing of myself, but lose, I'm still more impressive than you winning against someone who is average at best.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
Its over in, what, 6 months? Way too long.

Even though the full extent of Darkseid's schemes probably won't be known for a while, I'm fine with what has been shown already; that he's been manipulating the moniters, every hero and every villain in Countdown into position for something important to him. I thought it was almost over. Dammit. But then we dont get to see Darkseids plans blow up in his face. Oh well I guess we cant wait as 6 months is very long indeed. Basically if he is manipulating everyone in countdown it could turn into the whole dc universe vs Thanos his allies,maybe his clones, and some others.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
Thanos doesn't have all that because Thanos' competition is brain dead.

We've been through this.

If am battling Bobby Fisher in chess and make a decent showing of myself, but lose, I'm still more impressive than you winning against someone who is average at best. Grandmaster didnt seem braindead in jla avengers. Do you think they are braindead in general or just when they meet Thanos?

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by quanchi112
Just becuz his schemes were more complicated as doesnt mean hes smarter. You either accomplish what you set out to do or you dont. Darkseid does have more resources but thats becuz Thanos doesnt need all that.

Quan, if Thanos had to deal with the headaches DS did, he wouldn't succeed nearly as often. Darkseid is well known and everybody and his brother tries to stop him most of the time. He's got to fight the JLA, Highfather, New Genesis, his own son, Desaad and Kalibak on occasion, the GL corp, Infinity Man, Takion, Ares, the other pantheons in the DCU, the LSH........whereas Thanos mostly deals with Surfer, Infinity Watch, Drax and Adam Warlock. He occasionally fights against some of the major players, but as his schemes connect with them. Quite simply, he succeeds more often, yes, but he doesn't have to face the overwhelming opposition DS does.

Bransolute
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Quan, if Thanos had to deal with the headaches DS did, he wouldn't succeed nearly as often. Darkseid is well known and everybody and his brother tries to stop him most of the time. He's got to fight the JLA, Highfather, New Genesis, his own son, Desaad and Kalibak on occasion, the GL corp, Infinity Man, Takion, Ares, the other pantheons in the DCU, the LSH........whereas Thanos mostly deals with Surfer, Infinity Watch, Drax and Adam Warlock. He occasionally fights against some of the major players, but as his schemes connect with them. Quite simply, he succeeds more often, yes, but he doesn't have to face the overwhelming opposition DS does. Ha... you named people Darkseid has only had to deal with only a few times at best... and I don't recall him dealing with the Corps... only the Guardians when they stopped Raker from attacking Darkseid.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Quan, if Thanos had to deal with the headaches DS did, he wouldn't succeed nearly as often. Darkseid is well known and everybody and his brother tries to stop him most of the time. He's got to fight the JLA, Highfather, New Genesis, his own son, Desaad and Kalibak on occasion, the GL corp, Infinity Man, Takion, Ares, the other pantheons in the DCU, the LSH........whereas Thanos mostly deals with Surfer, Infinity Watch, Drax and Adam Warlock. He occasionally fights against some of the major players, but as his schemes connect with them. Quite simply, he succeeds more often, yes, but he doesn't have to face the overwhelming opposition DS does. Here we go again its like your saying Thanos isnt well known. What the f**k? Both characters are still left alone and stil get to come up with evil new plans and it isnt like theres this huge force that is trying to eradicate either character.

Darkseid doesnt face all this opposition all the time. So you have him sometimes just meeting Superman and not the entire jla. Darkseid also has an entire army to help him out with powerful characters along with it to boot. Thanos is mainly on his own but has had an ally or two on occasion. For the most part these villains start shit and then the heroes come to save the day. Its not like apokolips is being invaded all the time by the jla,other pantheon,etc. He starts shit and then gets his ass handed to him.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
I thought it was almost over. Dammit. But then we dont get to see Darkseids plans blow up in his face. Oh well I guess we cant wait as 6 months is very long indeed. Basically if he is manipulating everyone in countdown it could turn into the whole dc universe vs Thanos his allies,maybe his clones, and some others.

Oh, no no no.

He isn't controlling them like that. Its not like he's going to enlist the aid of Karate Kid.

Its more like he's subtly manipulating their actions to some unknown end. They aren't going to go to war for him.

Also, Countdown leads straight into final Crisis, and I suspect that, if anywhere, is where you will see the plans blow up in Darkseid's face.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bransolute
Ha... you named people Darkseid has only had to deal with only a few times at best... and I don't recall him dealing with the Corps... only the Guardians when they stopped Raker from attacking Darkseid. Exactly. Trick always slants crap. He acts like when Darkseid gets up in the morning he has to deal with the corps,the jla, and other pantheons on a daily.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
Oh, no no no.

He isn't controlling them like that. Its not like he's going to enlist the aid of Karate Kid.

Its more like he's subtly manipulating their actions to some unknown end. They aren't going to go to war for him.

Also, Countdown leads straight into final Crisis, and I suspect that, if anywhere, is where you will see the plans blow up in Darkseid's face. I know they arent going to war but I thought youd go with the angle of him manipulating them into fighting Thanos and his boys.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Grandmaster didnt seem braindead in jla avengers. Do you think they are braindead in general or just when they meet Thanos?

Just when they meet Thanos.

I should have specified, and thats my fault.

I just mean that Thanos' plans aren't very clever. Yet he still dupes heroes and villains that are, on the whole, intelligent.

I mean really, the defeat of Grandmaster was pitiful. He just used a robot. Not exactly a master strategist, eh?

Same deal with pretty much all the others. Is it genius to use the time gem to age the Runner? I suspect any decently canny person would think of that. He got the location and nature of the gems from the Infinity Well, hardly a planning feat there.

He blew up a planet to kill Omega. He blew up two planets and some nukes to kill the Hunger.

Again, not astounding by the lengths of his planning.

Desaad
Originally posted by Bransolute
Ha... you named people Darkseid has only had to deal with only a few times at best... and I don't recall him dealing with the Corps... only the Guardians when they stopped Raker from attacking Darkseid.

Huh? Darkseid went to war with the Green Lantern Corps.

He and Apokolips demolished 2/3rd of their army, in fact.

That is what lead up to the Raker battle.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
I know they arent going to war but I thought youd go with the angle of him manipulating them into fighting Thanos and his boys.

No, that seems very tenuous and dubious to me.

I just plan on using it as a feat of extreme planning ability and skill, above and beyond the likes of Thanos. How you choose to translate that in the battle is your choice, of course. smile

But I'd more say that Darkseid might manipulate Thanos' forces.

Bransolute
Originally posted by Desaad
Huh? Darkseid went to war with the Green Lantern Corps.

He and Apokolips demolished 2/3rd of their army, in fact.

That is what lead up to the Raker battle. Oh ya... shit. embarrasment

Was just thinking of Raker.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
Just when they meet Thanos.

I should have specified, and thats my fault.

I just mean that Thanos' plans aren't very clever. Yet he still dupes heroes and villains that are, on the whole, intelligent.

I mean really, the defeat of Grandmaster was pitiful. He just used a robot. Not exactly a master strategist, eh?

Same deal with pretty much all the others. Is it genius to use the time gem to age the Runner? I suspect any decently canny person would think of that. He got the location and nature of the gems from the Infinity Well, hardly a planning feat there.

He blew up a planet to kill Omega. He blew up two planets and some nukes to kill the Hunger.

Again, not astounding by the lengths of his planning. I dont buy this. Your beef is with the writer then and you think he cant come up with clever ways to make Thanos look well clever. Thanos is still effective and that is the bottom line.

To me and I know youll disagree it isnt the difficulty or the ingenuity of the plan its whether or not you accomplish what you set out to do. Thanos does while Darkseid usually fails. Look at him in genesis. He thought it was him that was going to absorb the power of the godwave but was beaten to the punch there by ares who also killed his nemesis Izaya. Not bad ares not bad.

Anyways we really dont need to get into this whole big argument again and should save all this Darkseid and Thanos stuff for our debate.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
No, that seems very tenuous and dubious to me.

I just plan on using it as a feat of extreme planning ability and skill, above and beyond the likes of Thanos. How you choose to translate that in the battle is your choice, of course. smile

But I'd more say that Darkseid might manipulate Thanos' forces. We shall see. I need to start reading countdown and let all these new events sink in. Ill begin next week slamming into countdown.


What else is there bseides the death of the new gods?

Countdown to mystery#2, and what issues of batman and superman with all the brainwashing crap? Anything else Im missing that has Darkseid in it?

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
I dont buy this. Your beef is with the writer then and you think he cant come up with clever ways to make Thanos look well clever. Thanos is still effective and that is the bottom line.

That isn't the bottom line.

He's more effective when he's facing foes that are dumb.

But Thanos' aura won't be "on" for this battle. Darkseid will be as smart as he is, and Thanos will be as smart as he has demonstrated himself to be.

I'm saying that Darkseid has demonstrated him to be smarter, if less effective due to intelligence of opposition.



But he had a plan to, and did, stop Ares once Ares had absorbed the power of the Godwave.

And Ares was able to do what he did to Izaya due to the factor of him being unknown. Izaya would never have let Darkseid get so close, because he knows the snake that Darkseid is.

Special circumstances, all.



I was thinking the same thing. I'm givin you all my material!

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
Huh? Darkseid went to war with the Green Lantern Corps.

He and Apokolips demolished 2/3rd of their army, in fact.

That is what lead up to the Raker battle. Yes cuz of their discovery about the weakness to the color of yellow. It will take more than yellow to put down Thanos's forces that is for sure.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
We shall see. I need to start reading countdown and let all these new events sink in. Ill begin next week slamming into countdown.


What else is there bseides the death of the new gods?

Countdown to mystery#2, and what issues of batman and superman with all the brainwashing crap? Anything else Im missing that has Darkseid in it?

That Firestorm arc had Darkseid in it.

Everything else you've got pretty locked up, I think.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes cuz of their discovery about the weakness to the color of yellow. It will take more than yellow to put down Thanos's forces that is for sure.

We've seen Lanterns single handidly defeat fleets of yellow colored foes.

Its more than just his discovery of yellow (though, of course, that plays a huge role I'm sure).

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
That isn't the bottom line.

He's more effective when he's facing foes that are dumb.

But Thanos' aura won't be "on" for this battle. Darkseid will be as smart as he is, and Thanos will be as smart as he has demonstrated himself to be.

I'm saying that Darkseid has demonstrated him to be smarter, if less effective due to intelligence of opposition.



But he had a plan to, and did, stop Ares once Ares had absorbed the power of the Godwave.

And Ares was able to do what he did to Izaya due to the factor of him being unknown. Izaya would never have let Darkseid get so close, because he knows the snake that Darkseid is.

Special circumstances, all.



I was thinking the same thing. I'm givin you all my material! Ok lets stop this at once. I know desaad that you are far to intelligent to give me all your material.

I really dont know who the hell the judges will be. Id like to do it with a time limit and let people weigh in after our battlezone. We both agree that this forum tends to favor Darkseid a lot but if you are really intent on finding judges let me know now.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
That Firestorm arc had Darkseid in it.

Everything else you've got pretty locked up, I think. Yeah firestorm 35 but what issues of superman and batman start it all. Do you know offhand?

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok lets stop this at once. I know desaad that you are far to intelligent to give me all your material.

I really dont know who the hell the judges will be. Id like to do it with a time limit and let people weigh in after our battlezone. We both agree that this forum tends to favor Darkseid a lot but if you are really intent on finding judges let me know now.

No, you can pick them all as far as I'm concerned.

I don't care who gets judged to win or lose. I don't care if there are judges.

I don't even really need this to be a battle zone, I'm happy for other people to chime in for Thanos or whoever.

Its all up to you.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yeah firestorm 35 but what issues of superman and batman start it all. Do you know offhand?

Hmm, I don't know them off hand.

Something like 37-43 maybe?

I am confident that it starts at 37, but the arc doesn't finish for a couple of issues still...its on 41 now, I'm not sure if it stops at 43 or what.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
No, you can pick them all as far as I'm concerned.

I don't care who gets judged to win or lose. I don't care if there are judges.

I don't even really need this to be a battle zone, I'm happy for other people to chime in for Thanos or whoever.

Its all up to you. Ok no judges and ill let the fanatical Darkseid fans chime in as to how bad I lost after our time limit is up. No one posts in the battlezone that we have until its over.

In the meantime I have a lot of reading to do.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
Hmm, I don't know them off hand.

Something like 37-43 maybe?

I am confident that it starts at 37, but the arc doesn't finish for a couple of issues still...its on 41 now, I'm not sure if it stops at 43 or what. K. I will start going through countdown issues next week and will really get into it after my ww hulk debate.

Desaad
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok no judges and ill let the fanatical Darkseid fans chime in as to how bad I lost after our time limit is up. No one posts in the battlezone that we have until its over.

In the meantime I have a lot of reading to do.

You can have judges if you want. I'm not against them.

I just don't care.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Desaad
You can have judges if you want. I'm not against them.

I just don't care. No I am cool with having no judges. I think it would be next to impossible for me to win with Thanos against Darkseid here. We will have our debate and let people chime in afterwards. I am not interested in the judges decision anyways but mainly to how I handled myself in the debate.

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