Ganon vs. Sephiroth WITH A TWIST!

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Violent2Dope
It's a game of chess! Happy Dance

Cosmic Cube
ermm

IamMongoose
Ummmm thats a pretty lame idea... sorry... Sephiroth would CLEARLY win... Ganon is not a genius in ANY way... otherwise he would have had the Triforce of Wisdom instead of power... power is the sign of all those with to much testosterone to make reasonable judgement...

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
Ummmm thats a pretty lame idea... sorry... Sephiroth would CLEARLY win... Ganon is not a genius in ANY way... otherwise he would have had the Triforce of Wisdom instead of power... power is the sign of all those with to much testosterone to make reasonable judgement... So Sephiroth is a genius?

IamMongoose
Never said that... Im just saying Ganon isnt as smart as Sephie... A guy with an IQ of 25 isnt as smart as a guy with an IQ of 50... but they're both still idiots...

Violent2Dope
Ganon is MUCH smarter than Seph. erm

Wisdom and knowledge are very different things, and he is actually wise, he just values power more.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Ganon is MUCH smarter than Seph. erm

Wisdom and knowledge are very different things, and he is actually wise, he just values power more. I was going to say he's extremely 'cunning'.

Violent2Dope
Ganon's plans are always well formed, and usually work, but in the end bullshiznit PIS takes hold in the form of a flaming gay [email protected] fairy boy with a sword.

IamMongoose
Ummmm I'll relent on this one IF!!! You can give me 3 examples of Ganon doing something that required his brain to think, not his manhood...

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
Ummmm I'll relent on this one IF!!! You can give me 3 examples of Ganon doing something that required his brain to think, not his manhood... Making everyone believe that Zant was the source of the Twilight.

Making Zant beleive he was a god.

Stealing the Triforce of Power...

IamMongoose
Well... Im gunna make you give me 1 more... cause 1 and 2 were part of the same plot run... (and Zant was a loony to begin with) and he DID have quite a bit of free time on his hands being trapped in purgatory... The last one was pretty good tho

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by IamMongoose
Ummmm I'll relent on this one IF!!! You can give me 3 examples of Ganon doing something that required his brain to think, not his manhood... 1. Fooling the entire kindom to trust him, to kill the king, and steal Triforce, and kept it imprisoned for seven years by having all the sages imprisoned or sealed off, so he would have no threat to his power.

2. Manipulating Link to open the Door of Time with the stones.

3. Using Zant as a means to extend his conquest, and using him as a connection to the physical realm.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
Well... Im gunna make you give me 1 more... cause 1 and 2 were part of the same plot run... (and Zant was a loony to begin with) and he DID have quite a bit of free time on his hands being trapped in purgatory... The last one was pretty good tho Convincing the King of Hyrule to knight him.

Convincing the people of Hyrule that Agahnim was their savior.

IamMongoose
Okay... good enuf... I declare it a tie if only for the sole reason that Sephie as seen below would hurt me...

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
Okay... good enuf... I declare it a tie if only for the sole reason that Sephie as seen below would hurt me... Wow. That guy looks like a real homo.

IamMongoose
Its called an anime convention... do you know how much tensor bandages there were at that thing? If you dont catch my drift... your too young to understand

Violent2Dope
That dude looked like a chick. Ganon's intellect is far superior to Seph's.

IamMongoose
YOU GUYS ARE RIDICULOUSLY RIDICULOUS!!! bLEAH!!! SEPHIROTH WOULD WIN!!! I HAVE MORE CRAZY COSPLAYERS THAT WOULD TOTALLY AGREE WITH ME TOOOOOOO! Anywho... enuf with the capslocks... Sephiroth lead an evil organization... and he DIDNT get owned by a kid who still believes in fairies and a pretty princess... he got gang beaten by a guy with a huge sword and his mean old comrades... Besides... if Sephiroth was close to losing... he could just hit Ganon with an energy blast and make him go all piggy and stupid

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
YOU GUYS ARE RIDICULOUSLY RIDICULOUS!!! bLEAH!!! SEPHIROTH WOULD WIN!!! I HAVE MORE CRAZY COSPLAYERS THAT WOULD TOTALLY AGREE WITH ME TOOOOOOO! Anywho... enuf with the capslocks... Sephiroth lead an evil organization... and he DIDNT get owned by a kid who still believes in fairies and a pretty princess... he got gang beaten by a guy with a huge sword and his mean old comrades... Besides... if Sephiroth was close to losing... he could just hit Ganon with an energy blast and make him go all piggy and stupid Well, where that kid lives, there are fairies and pretty princesses. And evil destroying swords that Ganon can't quite stand up to.

That would be cheating, and he would be disqualified.

Violent2Dope
Ganon would demolish Seph in a fight. Seph headed no evil organization.

IamMongoose
They're 2 CLEARLY evil villians... since when has rules mattered to them? Besides... the point Im making is that evil insanity often has quite a bit of intelligence in it... eg: Mr. Scorpio in the Simpsons... he was insane... but he still was the best thing that show has ever had as far as plot... and he was also EXTREMELY intelligent.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
They're 2 CLEARLY evil villians... since when has rules mattered to them? Besides... the point Im making is that evil insanity often has quite a bit of intelligence in it... eg: Mr. Scorpio in the Simpsons... he was insane... but he still was the best thing that show has ever had as far as plot... and he was also EXTREMELY intelligent. V2D makes the rules. He's the thread starter.

Violent2Dope
Ganon is a psychopathic lunatic btw.

IamMongoose
Check the dictionary, I think theres a difference between insanity and lunacy...

Violent2Dope
Okay, a lunatic? Not sure. He has exibited psychopathic behavior, and possible Schitzofrenia(no, I prolly did not stated that right). He is effectively quite insane.

IamMongoose
Hmmm well... we COULD go on argueing about this for awhile... or... we could go ask wikipedia! Ill be back in a bit... Ill base this off most notable accomplishments

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by IamMongoose
Hmmm well... we COULD go on argueing about this for awhile... or... we could go ask wikipedia! Ill be back in a bit... Ill base this off most notable accomplishments Wiki sux.

IamMongoose
You just dont like wiki cause itll probably prove me right... which it did... It said that Ganon was indeed clever... but his skill of the mind was more to the manipulation of others... which wouldnt really work in a game of chess... thus... Sephiroth would probably win... but there is alot of chance in chess too... so Im saying Sephiroth PROBABLY

Terryc250
Anyone who carries their "mothers" head around is clearly insane.

Sephiroth is a plotting genius, i can see him winning this game of chess, he read and read then went crazy and died.. but when he was in the lifestream he learned alot and plotted all those FFVII events, from coming back in 5 years to supressing holy, to letting Cloud get the black materia only to control him into giving it to his frozen body, then summoning meteor, to create a wound and absorbing all the energy from there, to creating physical manifestations, while guiding them with jenova's voice to reforming himself.. heck hes probably plotting a comeback right now.

IamMongoose
See? the random guy who spontaneaously joined our little debate agrees with me! and I declare Sephie the winner and depart from this topic with these last words

PRAISE HOJO!!!! WE'VE DONE JENOVA'S WORK!!!

Sado-sama
Originally posted by IamMongoose
PRAISE HOJO!!!! WE'VE DONE JENOVA'S WORK!!! I love that comic.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
See? the random guy who spontaneaously joined our little debate agrees with me! and I declare Sephie the winner and depart from this topic with these last words

PRAISE HOJO!!!! WE'VE DONE JENOVA'S WORK!!! That's because little is known about Ganon throughout the gaming community, aside from the fact that he gets owned by a fairy kid.

IamMongoose
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That's because little is known about Ganon throughout the gaming community, aside from the fact that he gets owned by a fairy kid.

I DID say I was gunna leave... but this is tooooooo stupid to ignore... what? Where does it say he whatsisface DOESNT know about Ganon... besides... whatsisface's chronology of Sephie's life kicks the posterior of what Ganon's done... I bid you all goodnight... btw... I almost got to meet Scott from VGCats at that convention from earlier...

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Anyone who carries their "mothers" head around is clearly insane.

Sephiroth is a plotting genius, i can see him winning this game of chess, he read and read then went crazy and died.. but when he was in the lifestream he learned alot and plotted all those FFVII events, from coming back in 5 years to supressing holy, to letting Cloud get the black materia only to control him into giving it to his frozen body, then summoning meteor, to create a wound and absorbing all the energy from there, to creating physical manifestations, while guiding them with jenova's voice to reforming himself.. heck hes probably plotting a comeback right now. Let's see...Ganon tricked the entire kindom into trusting him, so he could get close to the king, all the while allowing Link to do his dirty work by getting the stones to open the Door of Time, then he killed the King, and after Link opened the Door of Time, stole the Triforce of Power to rule Hyrule for seven years, and he then had all the sages either captured or sealed, matter of fact, the only one who eluded him was Ruto. He then allowed Link to carry on his little quest, so Zelda would reveal herself to Link, and then he captured her to lure Link to him so he could steal their Triforce pieces, which would make him omnipotent. Oh, and that is only from one game, Ocarina of Time.

Sado-sama
End the LoZ vs FF7 war. ermm It got old 3 years back.

Once again, I love that VGcats comic of FF7.

fascistcrusader
I'm going with Sephiroth, his schemes are always grander.



Why end it when we could keep it going?

Sado-sama
'Cuz it will bring my sweetheart Lana and she'll bring BackFire and then Captain REX will use his sensing abilities to pop in here and give out warnings. no expression

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
I DID say I was gunna leave... but this is tooooooo stupid to ignore... what? Where does it say he whatsisface DOESNT know about Ganon... besides... whatsisface's chronology of Sephie's life kicks the posterior of what Ganon's done... I bid you all goodnight... btw... I almost got to meet Scott from VGCats at that convention from earlier... Nothing I say is stupid.

What I said was a fact. Most of the gaming community knows little about Ganon. And Terryc certainly knows very little about Ganon. This I have deciphered from experience.

The Seph's backstory being superior is your opinion, one that is biased and based on your ignorance of Ganondorf's backstory.

Sado-sama
Oh my...no..

judgement hand
Originally posted by IamMongoose
Okay... good enuf... I declare it a tie if only for the sole reason that Sephie as seen below would hurt me...

"Sing it to the tune [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]!"

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Hail satan!

P.S. oh and, cam, I have 3 fan girls

IN YO FACE!!!!!!*face*

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I'm going with Sephiroth, his schemes are always grander.



Why end it when we could keep it going? Which is why they always phail?

IamMongoose
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Let's see...Ganon tricked the entire kindom into trusting him, so he could get close to the king, all the while allowing Link to do his dirty work by getting the stones to open the Door of Time, then he killed the King, and after Link opened the Door of Time, stole the Triforce of Power to rule Hyrule for seven years, and he then had all the sages either captured or sealed, matter of fact, the only one who eluded him was Ruto. He then allowed Link to carry on his little quest, so Zelda would reveal herself to Link, and then he captured her to lure Link to him so he could steal their Triforce pieces, which would make him omnipotent. Oh, and that is only from one game, Ocarina of Time.

Ok yes... he did that funky stuff BUT!!! It was all manipulation, which we already settled EARLIER!!! So... I thinks its fair to say that this topic can be dragged off to behind the watershed... shot and declare Sephie the winner

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
Ok yes... he did that funky stuff BUT!!! It was all manipulation, which we already settled EARLIER!!! So... I thinks its fair to say that this topic can be dragged off to behind the watershed... shot and declare Sephie the winner Doesn't manipulation take a quite a bit of intellect? erm

You were under the initial presumption that Ganon was a dumb-ass machismo-man, so your conclusion doesn't surprise me.

IamMongoose
First impression was dumb-ass macho guy... now its arrogant pain in the ass macho guy who can tell right from left... It does require intellect... but everyone has different strong points to intelligence... I excel in tacticsc and witty remarks for example... Ganon could make me kill myself... and Im a really hapy guy, so that aint happening anytime soon... can we PLEASE just say Sephie wins and get this over with???

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
First impression was dumb-ass macho guy... now its arrogant pain in the ass macho guy who can tell right from left... It does require intellect... but everyone has different strong points to intelligence... I excel in tacticsc and witty remarks for example... Ganon could make me kill myself... and Im a really hapy guy, so that aint happening anytime soon... can we PLEASE just say Sephie wins and get this over with??? No, we can't.

Arrogant? Certainly. Macho-guy? Not at all.

Ganondorf is not just a machiavellian charlatan, but he's a masterful tactician as well.

IamMongoose
You bring up an excellent point... Ganondorf is a masterful tactician maybe... but this topic is Ganon isnt it? I JUST realized this... its Sephiroth vs GANON!!! That means his evil demon pissed off form where he is crazy mad and in blind rage? NOW CAN SEPHIE WIN!!! JEEZ you guys keep making the same points over and over again!

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by IamMongoose
You bring up an excellent point... Ganondorf is a masterful tactician maybe... but this topic is Ganon isnt it? I JUST realized this... its Sephiroth vs GANON!!! That means his evil demon pissed off form where he is crazy mad and in blind rage? NOW CAN SEPHIE WIN!!! JEEZ you guys keep making the same points over and over again! Whatever. I'm done debating this.

General Kaliero
Originally posted by IamMongoose
You bring up an excellent point... Ganondorf is a masterful tactician maybe... but this topic is Ganon isnt it? I JUST realized this... its Sephiroth vs GANON!!! That means his evil demon pissed off form where he is crazy mad and in blind rage? NOW CAN SEPHIE WIN!!! JEEZ you guys keep making the same points over and over again!

Ganon is simply Ganondorf physically transformed by the Triforce of Power.

We know this because a key point in the Oracle story's Ganon was that without Zelda as the sacrifice, Ganon's mind could not be brought back, leaving him a wild beast as opposed to the evil King of Thieves.

So your point is invalid.

judgement hand
Sephie would still win

Hail Sephie!

Violent2Dope
Ganon and Ganondorf can be used interchangeably, and are several times throughout the series.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Ganon and Ganondorf can be used interchangeably, and are several times throughout the series. Not so much, after the Ocarina of Time.

General Kaliero
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Ganon and Ganondorf can be used interchangeably, and are several times throughout the series.

Not quite. Ganondorf is his humanoid Gerudo form, and Ganon is his monstrous pig-like form. So technically, Ganondorf has appeared in Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess, and was mentioned in the prologue to A Link to the Past. Ganon has made appearances in every game except Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, the Four Sword series (excepting Four Swords Adventures, I believe), and Phantom Hourglass.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Not quite. Ganondorf is his humanoid Gerudo form, and Ganon is his monstrous pig-like form. So technically, Ganondorf has appeared in Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess, and was mentioned in the prologue to A Link to the Past. Ganon has made appearances in every game except Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, the Four Sword series (excepting Four Swords Adventures, I believe), and Phantom Hourglass. Human Ganon is referred multiple times as being Ganon, King of Evil, even in OoT before his demonic form was shown. Also, I think that 3D(OoT, TP, and WW) are reincarnations of the classic Ganon.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Human Ganon is referred multiple times as being Ganon, King of Evil, even in OoT before his demonic form was shown. Also, I think that 3D(OoT, TP, and WW) are reincarnations of the classic Ganon. Who ever referred to him as Ganon before he obtained the Triforce of Power?

How so, being that "classic" Ganon appears in storys that chronologically follow the 3-D games?

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
How so, being that "classic" Ganon appears in storys that chronologically follow the 3-D games? OoT is not the first Zelda game anymore, so that point is moot.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
OoT is not the first Zelda game anymore, so that point is moot.
That's not what I said.

I said that the 3-D Zeldas chronologically outdate the 2-D ones, such as Link's Adventure, Link's Awakening and A Link To The Past.

Can you cite any refferences for this claim that Four Swords is the first chronological game in the series?

And once again, who ever referred to him as Ganon before he obtained the Triforce of Power?

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That's not what I said.

I said that the 3-D Zeldas chronologically outdate the 2-D ones, such as Link's Adventure, Link's Awakening and A Link To The Past.

Can you cite any refferences for this claim that Four Swords is the first chronological game in the series?

And once again, who ever referred to him as Ganon before he obtained the Triforce of Power? Sure I could, I could find a link.

No one, they have referred human form as Ganon tho.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Sure I could, I could find a link.

No one, they have referred human form as Ganon tho. That is my question. Who refers to his human form as Ganon?

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That is my question. Who refers to his human form as Ganon? King Hyrule in OoT. Oh, and I mean human form Ganon, with ToP.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
King Hyrule in OoT. Oh, and I mean human form Ganon, with ToP. King Hyrule never speaks nor is he ever seen in Ocarina of Time.

In the final fight of Twilight Princess, wherein Link and Ganondorf swordfight, the name that appears at the bottom of the screen in "Dark Lord - Ganondorf".

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
King Hyrule never speaks nor is he ever seen in Ocarina of Time.

In the final fight of Twilight Princess, wherein Link and Ganondorf swordfight, the name that appears at the bottom of the screen in "Dark Lord - Ganondorf". Lol, I meant WW, not OoT.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Lol, I meant WW, not OoT. Regardless, in general, the name Ganondorf refers to his human form. He may have been referred to as Ganon once or twice, but aside from that, he is known as Ganondorf. His beastial form is always referred to as Ganon.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Regardless, in general, the name Ganondorf refers to his human form. He may have been referred to as Ganon once or twice, but aside from that, he is known as Ganondorf. His beastial form is always referred to as Ganon. True, but Ganon can apply to both. Also, Ganon is shorter to type. big grin

ESB -1138
In LttP they mentioned that Ganon was once a human named Ganondorf so it would seem that Ganon would be referred to his beast form while Ganondorf human form; I guess to avoid confusion at times.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by ESB -1138
In LttP they mentioned that Ganon was once a human named Ganondorf so it would seem that Ganon would be referred to his beast form while Ganondorf human form; I guess to avoid confusion at times. That's been the point I've been trying to get across. Good job.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That's been the point I've been trying to get across. Good job.

Pwned

Burning thought
do i have to post the kain quote "this thread has outlasted this usefulness, as have you" and say he pwns Ganon and Sephiroth, or shall i spare you

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by ESB -1138
Pwned ermm

General Kaliero
He is referred to as Ganondorf through the entirety of OoT, until he transforms and the battle title card gives him the name Ganon.

In WW, his humanoid form is once again referred to as Ganondorf throughout the game. (When the King speaks of Ganon, he is talking about the monstrous transformation that clawed its way back into Hyrule, forcing the Goddesses to flood the land.) The same goes for TP, through until he transforms into Ganon as the second stage of the final battle.

As for chronology, OoT has been confirmed as the first story (disregarding The Minish Cap, which does not have Ganon/dorf, or indeed even the entire Triforce), and WW and TP are parallel sequels to OoT. All other games (except MM, which comes chronologically before TP) would seem to follow WW or TP in their respective timelines.

Violent2Dope
Wrong, in OoT, he is refferred to as Ganon, and is in WW as well, hell, I think he even refferred to HIMSELF as Ganon. Oh, and Four Swords Adventures was confirmed to be the first Zelda, and does have Ganon in it.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Wrong, in OoT, he is refferred to as Ganon, and is in WW as well, hell, I think he even refferred to HIMSELF as Ganon. Oh, and Four Swords Adventures was confirmed to be the first Zelda, and does have Ganon in it.

Four Swords Adventure retold the story in the desert of Ganondorf's transformation into Ganon and is a sequel to Four Swords which is a sequel to Minish Cap so how can it be the first?

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by ESB -1138
Four Swords Adventure retold the story in the desert of Ganondorf's transformation into Ganon and is a sequel to Four Swords which is a sequel to Minish Cap so how can it be the first? Ask Miyamoto, cause it makes no sense to me either.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Ask Miyamoto, cause it makes no sense to me either.

Link

Violent2Dope

General Kaliero
Note that that interview is now three years old. It has since been retconned by Miyamoto to taking place much later, with Minish Cap taking the title of chronologically first.

Really, the creators themselves don't seem entirely clear on their own (theoretical) timeline, but it is generally accepted that Miyamoto confirmed OoT as the first chronological appearance of Ganon/dorf.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Note that that interview is now three years old. It has since been retconned by Miyamoto to taking place much later, with Minish Cap taking the title of chronologically first.

Really, the creators themselves don't seem entirely clear on their own (theoretical) timeline, but it is generally accepted that Miyamoto confirmed OoT as the first chronological appearance of Ganon/dorf. And then decided it should be FSA, then MC. We will never know 'til the series ends.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
And then decided it should be FSA, then MC. We will never know 'til the series ends. It won't.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
It won't. Right, becaue Miyamoto will live forever.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Right, becaue Miyamoto will live forever. No, but the Legend of Zelda will. So will Super Mario.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
No, but the Legend of Zelda will. So will Super Mario. He has even said that he will reveal the timeline when the series ends.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
He has even said that he will reveal the timeline when the series ends. What eva.

superbatman86
Sephiroth.He was the greatest Soldier AND General on the planet.Chess like war is all about strategy.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by superbatman86
Sephiroth.He was the greatest Soldier AND General on the planet.Chess like war is all about strategy. Ganon ruled the planet. Oh, and Seph was the strongest Soldier, not the leader.

IamMongoose
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Ganon ruled the planet. Oh, and Seph was the strongest Soldier, not the leader.

/makeface I DONT CARE!!! A new point to make because it seems we've settled on Sephie vs pigdemonhead... how big is the chess board? cause if its a smaller board... pigdemonhead couldnt pick up this pieces without knocking his own king over... thus forfeiting the match

Remindme
Sephiroth IMO.

Though they're both the kind to throw up the board and turn it into a normal fight....

Violent2Dope
It is normal human sized Ganon. Seph is much less intelligent than Ganon, I haven't even brought up the biggest reason...he always loses to Cloud.

SHM
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
It is normal human sized Ganon. Seph is much less intelligent than Ganon, I haven't even brought up the biggest reason...he always loses to Cloud.

That have nothing to do with intelligence(or lack of it).

First time: In Nibelheim. He lost because Cloud attacked him from behind, impaling him with the Buster Sword(and Seph was so "weak" after that, that Cloud used his hidden power and could toss him in the Mako).

Second time: In the core of the planet. He lost because he has to hold back the most powerful spell in the planet, while fighting against 8 people using Limit Breaks and the most powerful Materias in the world. He was in a BIG disadvantage during all the fight.

Third time: In the Lifestream. He lost because Cloud found an opening in his defense. Because of the destruction of Sephiroth's physical body(Safer), the fact he was still holding back Holy, and that Cloud became stronger during FFVII, we can say that the fight in the Lifestream is the only moment where Cloud and Sephiroth are close in power. Cloud found an opening in his defense and attacked, winning the battle. Simple as that.

Fourth time: In AC. He lost because he decided to make Cloud suffer instead of just killing him. That's the ONLY moment where he lost because he underestimated Cloud. And that doesn't mean he was an idiot. Why? Because he has many reasons to not take Cloud seriously. First, he was in his most powerful form ever, even more powerful than Safer. Second, Cloud was fighting alone. And third, Cloud wasn't using Materia. Looking at these three points, I'm not surprised Sephiroth underestimated him, really.



As you can see, Sephiroth has many good reasons to allways lose to Cloud(and his friends). None of these reasons have anything to do with lack of intelligence.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by SHM
That have nothing to do with intelligence(or lack of it).

First time: In Nibelheim. He lost because Cloud attacked him from behind, impaling him with the Buster Sword(and Seph was so "weak" after that, that Cloud used his hidden power and could toss him in the Mako).

Second time: In the core of the planet. He lost because he has to hold back the most powerful spell in the world, while fighting against 8 people using Limit Breaks and the most powerful Materias in the world.

Third time: In the Lifestream. He lost because Cloud found an opening in his defense. Because of the destruction of Sephiroth's physical body(Safer), the fact he was still holding back Holy, and that Cloud became stronger during FFVII, we can say that the fight in the Lifestream is the only moment where Cloud and Sephiroth are close to each other in power. Cloud found an opening and attacked, winning the battle. Simple as that.

Fourth time: In AC. He lost because he decided to make Cloud suffer instead of just killing him. That's the ONLY moment where he lost because he underestimated Cloud. And that doesn't mean he was an idiot. Why? Because he has many reasons to not take Cloud seriously. First, he was in his most powerful form ever, even more powerful than Safer. Second, Cloud was fighting alone. And third, Cloud wasn't using any Materia. Looking at these three points, I'm not surprised Sephiroth underestimated him, really.



As you can see, Sephiroth has many good reasons to allways loses to Cloud(and his friends). None of them have anything to do with lack of intelligence. 1. He impaled him, and was holding him in the air, instead of going for his heart(God forbid), he went FOR THE SHOULDER! He was underestimating Cloud.

2. That time I wasn't talking about.

3. I remember it like this, Seph does attacks that dwindle away most of Cloud's HP, then stops like a dumbass, and then Cloud kills him.

4. Right, good jobs underestimating the same guy that has killed you 3 times again. What a frickin genius. Oh, and he went for the shoulder again. It would seem Seph is incapable of hitting the heart while fighting Cloud.

Ganon is still much more intelligent than Sephiroth.

SHM
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. He impaled him, and was holding him in the air, instead of going for his heart(God forbid), he went FOR THE SHOULDER! He was underestimating Cloud.

2. That time I wasn't talking about.

3. I remember it like this, Seph does attacks that dwindle away most of Cloud's HP, then stops like a dumbass, and then Cloud kills him.

4. Right, good jobs underestimating the same guy that has killed you 3 times again. What a frickin genius. Oh, and he went for the shoulder again. It would seem Seph is incapable of hitting the heart while fighting Cloud.

Ganon is still much more intelligent than Sephiroth.

1. No he wasn't. In CC(and FFVII I believe) Sephiroth stabbed him in the chest and lifted him in the air. That would kill ANYONE. Seph was trying to kill him.

3. That's gameplay. "The Maiden who Travels the Planet" explain that Seph and Cloud fought. Seph was winning, and when he was going to give the final attack, Cloud found an opening and attacked him.

4. Cloud killed him 2 times, not 3. Remember that in the second fight Avalanche killed him.
In ACC(the new cannon) Sephiroth impaled him in the chest and lifted him.
And like I said before, he has good reasons to underestimate Cloud. Seph was even more powerful than Safer, and Cloud didn't have the help of his friends and Materia.
If Avalanche decided to help Cloud in AC and use their Materias, they would have a harder time against AC Sephiroth than against Safer Sephiroth, because in AC he is more powerful. But instead of Avalanche, it was Cloud, alone, without any Materia. And Sephiroth hated him. He has ALL the reasons in the world to underestimate Cloud, and make him suffer.

5. From what I heard about Ganon, I agree. Sephiroth is smart, but almost everything he does, is by using his power. Power over Jenova cells to control the clones, willpower, magic power, etc. He is not the type of guy who manipulate others behind the scenes.
But I'm just saying that "he allways loses to Cloud" is not a good argument against his intelligence.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by SHM
1. No he wasn't. In CC(and FFVII I believe) Sephiroth stabbed him in the chest and lifted him in the air. That would kill ANYONE. Seph was trying to kill him.

3. That's gameplay. "The Maiden who Travels the Planet" explain that Seph and Cloud fought. Seph was winning, and when he was going to give the final attack, Cloud found an opening and attacked him.

4. Cloud killed him 2 times, not 3. Remember that in the second fight Avalanche killed him.
In ACC(the new cannon) Sephiroth impaled him in the chest and lifted him.
And like I said before, he has good reasons to underestimate Cloud. Seph was even more powerful than Safer, and Cloud didn't have the help of his friends and Materia.
If Avalanche decided to help Cloud in AC and use their Materias, they would have a harder time against AC Sephiroth than against Safer Sephiroth, because in AC he is more powerful. But instead of Avalanche, it was Cloud, alone, without any Materia. And Sephiroth hated him. He has ALL the reasons in the world to underestimate Cloud, and make him suffer.

5. From what I heard about Ganon, I agree. Sephiroth is smart, but almost everything he does, is by using his power. Power over Jenova cells to control the clones, willpower, magic power, etc. He is not the type of guy who manipulate others behind the scenes.
But I'm just saying that "he allways loses to Cloud" is not a good argument against his intelligence. Good points actually. You have made me think of Seph as more intelligent that I thot he was.

Ganon is a master strategist and manipulator, he has great power, but is often put in situations where he can't use it, like in TP, so he uses his intellect to get ahead.

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