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This is Earth 616 Jaspers, and HoM Proteus in Morph's body. Which Reality Warper would prevail?

jim is a higher class of warper

Proteus will copy his power, like he did with the Living Tribunal's.

Originally posted by Astner
Proteus will copy his power, like he did with the Living Tribunal's.
Not Protege, Proteus. Different people.

Originally posted by Astner
Proteus will copy his power, like he did with the Living Tribunal's.

When did he copy LT's powers?

As mentioned, it was Protege, not proteus who copied LT's powers.

Originally posted by Kutulu
When did he copy LT's powers?
Never.

PROTEGE copied LT's powers. He's thinking of the wrong guy.

<edit>

no

you are thinking of amazo

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
jim is a higher class of warper

Do we know that for sure? In Exiles #90, Enemies of the Stars Part 1 (of 5), it's suggested by the Omniscient Narrator that he may in fact be the most powerful being in Creation (entire Omniverse taken into account), and that if his personality were to resurface (he possessed the personality and memories of Morph at the time, and wasn't aware that he was in fact Proteus), that Creation itself would cease to exist. No other being in Marvel Canon has been indicated at being as great an Omniversal threat, so would it be safe to say that Mutant X may in fact be the most powerful being in the Marvel Continuity?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Do we know that for sure? In Exiles #90, Enemies of the Stars Part 1 (of 5), it's suggested by the Omniscient Narrator that he may in fact be the most powerful being in Creation (entire Omniverse taken into account), and that if his personality were to resurface (he possessed the personality and memories of Morph at the time, and wasn't aware that he was in fact Proteus), that Creation itself would cease to exist. No other being in Marvel Canon has been indicated at being as great an Omniversal threat, so would it be safe to say that Mutant X may in fact be the most powerful being in the Marvel Continuity?
No

MJJ was also stated as being a omniversal threat.

And it was done AFTER Proteus so it is unknown how they would compare

Well Jamie Braddock must be higher since he can protect people from Proteus's warping.

MJJ is so far beyond Proteus that is not even comparable.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
No

MJJ was also stated as being a omniversal threat.

Read my post again (key words: as great an Omniversal threat). Jim Jaspers had been stated as being an Omniversal threat, sure, but with Proteus, the Omniscient Narrator is actually stating that he would (as in definitive) bring forth the end of Creation



...?

Don't quite catch your meaning here.

Originally posted by Xplosive
MJJ is so far beyond Proteus that is not even comparable.

Proof?

jaspers ftw

better question, is that jaspers in the new x men: die by the sword

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well Jamie Braddock must be higher since he can protect people from Proteus's warping.

Reality Warping period, not just Proteus', which would include Jamie's own, which makes your argument nonsensical. That essentially shows that simply using Reality Warping powers to make one immune from them doesn't make your powers greater than those that mentioned person is immune to.

By your logic, Longshot possesses greater power than Proteus given that he can shield himself and others from the direct effects of his Reality Warping. Yet, that would flat out make no sense, given narration, showings, and what Proteus does to Longshot in a definitive "What if?" future (he owns him along with the rest of the Exiles) as seen in Exiles #90.

Originally posted by Astner
Proteus will copy his power, like he did with the Living Tribunal's. Ha... n00b.

Vulcan wins.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Proof?

Am, Proteus never came close to what Jaspers did. He has never close shown the range of power like MJJ.
Really, it's not even comparable.

Absence of proof =/= proof of absence. Not displaying that level of power doesn't mean that he doesn't have it. As I said, in a definitive "What IF?" future, Proteus, through his sheer power, is able to bring forth the end of creation. Nothing even hints at Jim Jaspers having a level of power anywhere close to that.

Jaspers for the easy win.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
No other being in Marvel Canon has been indicated at being as great an Omniversal threat,

Other beings have actually Remade and/or affected the Omniverse,
so how are you giving Proteus so much status when he never did anything to it?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
so would it be safe to say that Mutant X may in fact be the most powerful being in the Marvel Continuity?



Wanda re-created this cat,
Wanda, who has really ripped apart and remade the Omniverse.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Absence of proof =/= proof of absence. Not displaying that level of power doesn't mean that he doesn't have it.

Jaspers >>> Proteus ... anytime, anyday.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
As I said, in a definitive "What IF?" future, Proteus, through his sheer power, is able to bring forth the end of creation.

This never happened in the present or the future, or any scenerio.

I have that issue,
Proteus was clearly depcited as a being with potential based on specific circumstances.

That was a simulation program projecting what would happen with a big "IF" infront of it:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8809/propt7.th.jpg

This isn't happening in a future Timeline,
this is a computer assuming a Future based on variables.

It's just a simulation.
...................................................................................

Meh, on top of this, it's just a potential Multiversal threat:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2647/pro2zu9.th.jpg

Impressive potential, but that ain't the Omniverse.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Nothing even hints at Jim Jaspers having a level of power anywhere close to that.

Actually unlike Proteus,

Jaspers really DID Warp the entire Omniverse in a definitve Future.

Cobweb (who peers into Past & Future Timelines) saw it happen:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1782/m9ej7.th.jpghttp://img349.imageshack.us/img349/2961/m10cr3.th.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4643/m11lz1.th.jpg

This Future was based on whether Jaspers' Plot Device (Fury) stopped him or not.
...................................................................................

I guess when Merlyn said this:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1219/m17iu3.th.jpg

"You cannot fail, this version of Japers is too powerful, too dangerous"

(the other version being 238 Jaspers,
they had to destroy the entire 238 Universe in order to kill 238 Jaspers,)

but 616 Jaspers is,

"NOT so easily contained, and if he's not stopped,
the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos,
and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"
...................................................................................


I guess he wasn't talking about a potential assumption based on a simulation program.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Other beings have actually Remade and/or affected the Omniverse,

Simply untrue. No being has ever fully remade the Omniverse or effected its entirety. I can only assume that you're either lying, heavily misinterpreting something, or have been wrongly informed.



The fact that he didn't actually do it is irrelevant. The definitive "What If?" future states that he can do such. Having the power to do it would remain whether the definitive "What If?" future came to fruition or not, given what prevented it from happening was Proteus not being able to regain his memories or personality, which in no way factors in on his Reality Manipulation powers.



First; Wanda only did that to a small portion of the Omniverse. She didn't rip apart and remake the entire Omniverse. Proteus destroyed the entire Omniverse. The feat is a million times greater.

Second; read above. Showings aren't all. Your "really" really means nothing, given that Proteus not "really" doing what is shown in no way detracts from his ability to do such.



Completely unsupported.



Irrelevant Misdirection. There's a reason it's a Logical Fallacy. Don't commit it. The fact that the definitive "What If?" future never came to fruition doesn't detract from the fact that such could have happened, and in both cases, Proteus' power level remains the same



You would be 100% correct of course, if not for the Omniscient Narrator's words fully coinciding with the simulation, and actually stated that it would have happened, essentially making the simulation more than just a simulation, and what would have definitely happened.

Even if that wasn't the case however, the simulation was generated by a construct (Crystal Palace) that had extremely in depth knowledge of the entire Omniverse, so it would still speak volumes anyway as for the accuracy of the simulation.



"For the Exiles, this is the way Creation ends." - first page of Enemies of the Stars, Part 1.

"Creation" is the entire Omniverse, and Proteus is set up as a being with the power to end it, essentially making him the greatest Omniversal threat that has thus far been depicted in Marvel Canon.



No, not the entire Omniverse, but an unknown number of universe. I say unknown, given we don't know the potency of the "Dominoes Effect", in other words how great an effect it had and how long it lasted.



Wonderful scan and quotes, and Jaspers is indeed extremely powerful, one of the greatest displayed beings in Marvel Canon in fact based on what we know, but seriously... come on now; how exactly does any of than put Jaspers anywhere near someone capable of ending creation itself?



Neither was the Omniscient Narrator in Exiles #90.

So... would people agree that Proteus logically has this?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
So... would people agree that Proteus logically has this?
Nope. MJJ is on a whole different level.

Eh, I just realised that my post didn't come out properly, which is extremely odd given I typed it out perfectly. Anyways, I can assume that most can still understand it, however one of my replies doesn't appear to have gotten through, so I'll just reply to it now:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wanda re-created this cat,

Which means what exactly? If you're trying to assert superiority, then substantiate. Simply bringing someone back to life (which is what she did, she didn't re-create him) in no way indicates superiority, especially considering that Proteus, given his form of pure energy can't actually ever permanently die.


Anyways Mr Master, given that you haven't responded, can I treat this as you conceding your argument? Otherwise a reply any time now would be great.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Anyways Mr Master, given that you haven't responded, can I treat this as you conceding your argument? Otherwise a reply any time now would be great.
Don't think that... He NEVER concededs his arguments, whether he's right or wrong.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Eh, I just realised that my post didn't come out properly, which is extremely odd given I typed it out perfectly. Anyways, I can assume that most can still understand it, however one of my replies doesn't appear to have gotten through, so I'll just reply to it now:



Which means what exactly? If you're trying to assert superiority, then substantiate. Simply bringing someone back to life (which is what she did, she didn't re-create him) in no way indicates superiority, especially considering that Proteus, given his form of pure energy can't actually ever permanently die.


Anyways Mr Master, given that you haven't responded, can I treat this as you conceding your argument? Otherwise a reply any time now would be great.

master concede? You don't know him do you? You better get your scans ready.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Simply untrue.

No being has ever fully remade the Omniverse or effected its entirety.

HOM Wanda tore up the Omniverse, then with a single phrase put it back together.

The Alien Entity folded the Omniverse, then with Reed's mind,
Re-created the Omniverse from nothingness.

Merlyn fused the life-force of the Omniverse into tiny crystals,
that are used by the Celestial Nullifier to erase UniverseS.

Havok/Nexus erased the Goblin Force from every Universe in the Omniverse simultaneusly,
while merged he's able to collapse every Reality in the Omniverse.

Jaspers in a definite Future seen by Cobweb, collapsed the entire Omniverse.

Jamie Warped the WHR, a Multiveral nexus, possibly Omniversal.

Entropy recreated the Omniverse.

Considering the feats of Cosmic Cubes,
I'd say the BeyonderS are surely Omniversal.

Vanguaard can destroy any Universe in the Omniverse.

Edifice Rex was going to fold the Omniverse back into its Cosmic Egg,
even Oblivion was literally shaking in fear.
.................................................................................

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
I can only assume that you're either lying,
heavily misinterpreting something,
or have been wrongly informed.



Originally posted by Ultra Omega
The fact that he didn't actually do it is irrelevant. The definitive "What If?" future states that he can do such. Having the power to do it would remain whether the definitive "What If?" future came to fruition or not, given what prevented it from happening was Proteus not being able to regain his memories or personality, which in no way factors in on his Reality Manipulation powers.

Proteus is a Global power at best, nothing more.

Now, he's not even that.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
First; Wanda only did that to a small portion of the Omniverse.
She didn't rip apart and remake the entire Omniverse.

Actually she did.

Here's a scene briefly describing what brought Jaspers back to life.


From the "Omniscient Narrator" as you pleasantly termed him:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_mjj0.jpg

"Not so long ago,
the Omniverse was swept by a temporal reality Wave of unimagineable power --

That literally tore the continuum to bits, and rearranged it.."

"Then after time it apparently reversed itself,
and put everything back the way it was --
Well almost everything.."

Enter James Jaspers"
........................................................................................................


As we know, that's the Chaos Wave he's referring to:

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/9890/w1eb1.th.jpg
"it is the End ... of ALL that is ... of ALL that will Ever be"

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/9553/w2hq1.th.jpg
........................................................................................................


This same Chaos Wave brought back Jaspers 616 from another Plane of Reality

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8867/jjjoa2.th.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5383/w8xw6.th.jpg



This exact moment was retold in "X-Men Die by the Sword"

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7826/79488736dn1.th.jpg
........................................................................................................


AGAIN ... The Omniverse

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2121/68053692tt1.th.jpg

"Not long ago, the Omniverse was swept
by a Temporal Reality Wave of unimaginable power,
that literally tore the Continuum to bits and Re-arranged it"
........................................................................................................


This same Chaos Wave (Temporal Reality Wave that brought back Jaspers)
is referred to as "Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"
in the Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe v5 2006.




In THREE separate Bios



1. "During the Scarlet Witch's 'House of M' Reality Warp, Jaspers Reformed alive merged with the Fury"
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1703/w9kr2.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)
........................................................................................................


2. "Mad Jim Jaspers has also returned, brought back to life by the Scarlet Witch's recent Reality Warp"
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8717/w10rk2.th.jpg

And as I presented above,
it was the Chaos Wave that manifested Jaspers 616 from another Plane.
(he was dead)
........................................................................................................


3. Wanda gave Layla the power to "Perceive Divergent Realities"
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5967/w10ej7.th.jpg

"Layla showed Cage glimpses of his life prior to the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"
........................................................................................................



And more ....

Or if you prefer a blatant On Panel statement
that directly associates the Chaos Wave with Wanda:


http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4163/cwzn9.th.jpg

Nightcrawler tells Cyclops,

"Rachel mentioned something from her dream
about a powerful 'Chaos Wave'
Scott, what's going on Just what are we dealing with here? ... "


Scott responds,

"Good Lord, Wanda, what else have YOU done to us?"

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Proteus destroyed the entire Omniverse.
The feat is a million times greater.

Riiight. Just show me where this happened on panel,
or show me where its stated to have happened in a bio.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Second; read above. Showings aren't all. Your "really" really means nothing, given that Proteus not "really" doing what is shown in no way detracts from his ability to do such.

His ability has him at a planetary warper On Panel,
nothing more nothing less.

Actually I think I'm wrong, it may actually be below that on panel,
I think it was just a city,
I'll flip the relevant issues in a while and I'll post the scans for ya.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Completely unsupported.

Nothing more unsupported than you claiming Proteus destroyed the Omniverse.

Jaspers warped/became the 616 Universe on panel:

"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1554/jsd5.th.jpg
"I made the Stars"
........................................................................................................

Shooh, he ain't lying:

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/7223/m18gy5.th.jpg


not in Future visions, computer simulations, or "what if" futures,

On Panel in the Present baby.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Irrelevant Misdirection. There's a reason it's a Logical Fallacy. Don't commit it.
The fact that the definitive "What If?" future never came to fruition doesn't detract from the fact that such could have happened, and in both cases, Proteus' power level remains the same

You must be under the impression that if you include a discrediting opening sentence,
it'll somehow give your explanation more merit than it deserves.

Nice.

Proteus has never done anything on a Universal level,
or even Galactic level,
heck not even Global if I'm not mistaken (looking into it)

you put him on an Omniversal level yet he has no feats,
that put him even remotely close to a Universal power.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
You would be 100% correct of course, if not for the Omniscient Narrator's words fully coinciding with the simulation, and actually stated that it would have happened, essentially making the simulation more than just a simulation, and what would have definitely happened.

Hyperbole.

Cat's done nothing to make him a Universal threat.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Even if that wasn't the case however, the simulation was generated by a construct (Crystal Palace) that had extremely in depth knowledge of the entire Omniverse, so it would still speak volumes anyway as for the accuracy of the simulation.

Hyperbole.

Cat's done nothing to make him a Universal threat.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
"For the Exiles, this is the way Creation ends." - first page of Enemies of the Stars, Part 1.

"Creation" is the entire Omniverse, and Proteus is set up as a being with the power to end it, essentially making him the greatest Omniversal threat that has thus far been depicted in Marvel Canon.

While he had his memory he wasn't even a Universal threat.

There's absolutely no proof of any kind to boost him anymore than what he's presented,
Global warper, at best.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
No, not the entire Omniverse, but an unknown number of universe.
I say unknown, given we don't know the potency of the "Dominoes Effect",
in other words how great an effect it had and how long it lasted.

This is funny, you pumping Proteus into the forum as an Omniversal badass,'when he's never done anything greater than affect a Planet.

Here we have Jaspers,
being seen by Cobweb in a Future Timeline collapsing the Omniverse On Panel,
and you try and spin it in something other. lol.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1782/m9ej7.th.jpghttp://img349.imageshack.us/img349/2961/m10cr3.th.jpg

"But if this Game is Lost, I see a Universe eaten alive by Chaos,
and ANOTHER Universe,
and ANOTHER,
like Dominos, Tumbling ...
I see the Future"


What is the Future Cobweb honey?

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4643/m11lz1.th.jpg
"it is Cancelled"
...................................................................................................

"unknown number?"

Try all of them, there's only an empty Void left.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Wonderful scan and quotes, and Jaspers is indeed extremely powerful, one of the greatest displayed beings in Marvel Canon in fact based on what we know, but seriously... come on now; how exactly does any of than put Jaspers anywhere near someone capable of ending creation itself?

Proteus has never done anything greater than Planetary, and perhaps even less.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Neither was the Omniscient Narrator in Exiles #90.

Proteus has no feats
to suggest he's capable of anything Universal letalone Omniverse.

Nice opening statement by the narrator to pump up the hype.

I really don't have time to reply to an argument with 3 essays worth of text, so I'll just get to the point.

The Omniscient Narrator outright claims: "For the Exiles, this is the way that Creation ends." This is in reference to what would happen if Proteus were to regain control over his personality and memories.

Firstly, you label it hyperbole, which is just plain silly. It's not an exaggeration on the narrator's part, it's quite clearly an extremely unambiguous statement, with the meaning being quite fixed, and not up for variation. You have quite frankly no grounds to label it hyperbole.

Secondly, you try to argue against it by claiming that Proteus is a Global threat at best, simply based on his showings. Well, absence of proof is nor proof of absence. Just because he hasn't shown such power, it doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Provide proof of a necessity for displaying such power, or drop the point. Given that Proteus' goal wasn't exactly anything mass destruction related, but simply to find the perfect host for which could contain his power, there would be no need to display power on such a level.

Thirdly, you appear to think that the fact that the future never came into fruition somehow detracts from Proteus' displayed ability in the future. Here's a hint: it doesn't. Just like the definitive future that could have occurred with Jaspers, what prevented the one with Proteus from coming to pass was a plot device; that he wasn't able to regain control over his memories. This doesn't detract from the power level he possessed however, which would remain constant.

So, your counter arguments are quite clearly worthless, and the fact remains that Proteus, at that point in time, possessed the level of power capable of destroying the entire Omniverse.

Now, as for your example with Jaspers, there is a fundamental point that you're missing. These future timelines that would be collapsing are only the future timelines that would have been a product of the 616 timeline. This doesn't account for all the timelines that were non parallel to the Earth 616 Universe. So, as I said, the amount of the Omniverse that would be effected is quite frankly completely unknown. It's a great feat to be sure, but you're misinterpreting just how great.

As for my second piece of evidence for Proteus; from the same issue where he's stated to end creation in a "What If?" future, he's stated as being "possibly the most powerful being in creation," meaning at the very least, he's at least close in power to anyone who may be above him in power.

Now you can meander all you want, but I'm fairly certain that my points speak for themselves, and the fact remains that Proteus is logically more powerful than Jaspers, based both on what his power could achieve, and his given power status in the Omniverse.

Jaspers feats put Proteus to shame. A single what-if issue doesnt hold up against MJJ's numerous uber cannon showings.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
I really don't have time to reply to an argument with 3 essays worth of text, so I'll just get to the point.

The Omniscient Narrator outright claims: "For the Exiles, this is the way that Creation ends." This is in reference to what would happen if Proteus were to regain control over his personality and memories.

Firstly, you label it hyperbole, which is just plain silly. It's not an exaggeration on the narrator's part, it's quite clearly an extremely unambiguous statement, with the meaning being quite fixed, and not up for variation. You have quite frankly no grounds to label it hyperbole.

Secondly, you try to argue against it by claiming that Proteus is a Global threat at best, simply based on his showings. Well, absence of proof is nor proof of absence. Just because he hasn't shown such power, it doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Provide proof of a necessity for displaying such power, or drop the point. Given that Proteus' goal wasn't exactly anything mass destruction related, but simply to find the perfect host for which could contain his power, there would be no need to display power on such a level.

Thirdly, you appear to think that the fact that the future never came into fruition somehow detracts from Proteus' displayed ability in the future. Here's a hint: it doesn't. Just like the definitive future that could have occurred with Jaspers, what prevented the one with Proteus from coming to pass was a plot device; that he wasn't able to regain control over his memories. This doesn't detract from the power level he possessed however, which would remain constant.

So, your counter arguments are quite clearly worthless, and the fact remains that Proteus, at that point in time, possessed the level of power capable of destroying the entire Omniverse.

Now, as for your example with Jaspers, there is a fundamental point that you're missing. These future timelines that would be collapsing are only the future timelines that would have been a product of the 616 timeline. This doesn't account for all the timelines that were non parallel to the Earth 616 Universe. So, as I said, the amount of the Omniverse that would be effected is quite frankly completely unknown. It's a great feat to be sure, but you're misinterpreting just how great.

As for my second piece of evidence for Proteus; from the same issue where he's stated to end creation in a "What If?" future, he's stated as being "possibly the most powerful being in creation," meaning at the very least, he's at least close in power to anyone who may be above him in power.

Now you can meander all you want, but I'm fairly certain that my points speak for themselves, and the fact remains that Proteus is logically more powerful than Jaspers, based both on what his power could achieve, and his given power status in the Omniverse.

Signed and cosigned!

To argue with MM is to get drawn into a disagreement with somebody that has just enough understanding of the way Marvel and DC have laid out their "realities", to give you a headache.
But, in truth, if you really understand the architecture that has been created, you will see that MMaster has a lot of holes in his theories.
He follows a book to the letter in one argument, and in his next, if it suits his purpose, he jumps to wild, opinionated conclusions that are waaaay off base from what is being depicted on panel.

Bran chooses you, Jaspechu!

Originally posted by Horrificus
Signed and cosigned!

To argue with MM is to get drawn into a disagreement with somebody that has just enough understanding of the way Marvel and DC have laid out their "realities", to give you a headache.
But, in truth, if you really understand the architecture that has been created, you will see that MMaster has a lot of holes in his theories.
He follows a book to the letter in one argument, and in his next, if it suits his purpose, he jumps to wild, opinionated conclusions that are waaaay off base from what is being depicted on panel.

You are just figuring this out? Muhahahahahaha

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You are just figuring this out? Muhahahahahaha it took a while, but finally got through

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You are just figuring this out? Muhahahahahaha

You're a real snake Nvr,
we haven't quarreled with animosity in a long time,
I been treating you with patience & respect for a while now, (even in disagreements)
and yet
you have to side with cats that enter threads just to vainly attempt to besmirch my name.

Cool, do what you do, I won't bite back in that manner.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're a real snake Nvr,
we haven't quarreled with animosity in a long time,
I been treating you with patience & respect for a while now, (even in disagreements)
and yet
you have to side with cats that enter threads just to vainly attempt to besmirch my name.

Cool, do what you do, I won't bite back in that manner.

Master. You didn't answer my request earlier asking for PROOF of Classic MM"s superiority over the LT. and until you concede that i'm correct, i'm just going to figure that you have made a hierachy and you refuse to change your mind no matter the evidence. thus he is correct. doesn't mean i don't respect you. But you have your MAJOR flaws. As do we all. i'm just calling it how I see it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're a real snake Nvr,
we haven't quarreled with animosity in a long time,
I been treating you with patience & respect for a while now, (even in disagreements)
and yet
you have to side with cats that enter threads just to vainly attempt to besmirch my name.

Cool, do what you do, I won't bite back in that manner.

Don't mind Nvr, he's still in a huff over Darkseid getting batkicked.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're a real snake Nvr,
Not really... Nvr's more of a ****... IMO.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Don't mind Nvr, he's still in a huff over Darkseid getting batkicked.

Don't you have another site you could bother? One where hulk fanboys run rabid like a bush in a war planning meeting?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Bran chooses you, Jaspechu!

I guess when one actually reads comics,
this decision isn't to hard to come by.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Don't you have another site you could bother? One where hulk fanboys run rabid like a bush in a war planning meeting?

Let's leave politics out of this. noway

Originally posted by Mr Master
I guess when one actually reads comics,
this decision isn't to hard to come by. I'm pretty dumbfounded at how Proteus got so overrated here...

Hell, I think Surfer could stomp him truthfully...

Speaking of comics (a very weird thing on this part of the forum), are you picking up Marvel Zombies 2 #2 tomorrow?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I'm pretty dumbfounded at how Proteus got so overrated here...

Ignorance, supported by further ignorance.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Hell, I think Surfer could stomp him truthfully...

Yea, I think Proteus warped like a city or something similar,
I don't think it was even a Planet.
But unlike those others,
I won't demean the cat's possibility at being Global until I'm sure.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Speaking of comics (a very weird thing on this part of the forum),
are you picking up Marvel Zombies 2 #2 tomorrow?

What should I be expecting?

I'll get it if its note worthy.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
The Omniscient Narrator outright claims: "For the Exiles, this is the way that Creation ends." This is in reference to what would happen if Proteus were to regain control over his personality and memories.

I finshed re-reading the arc yesterday,
the Arc had nothing to do with Proteus.

But it did have to do with the "End of Creation" ... but NOT at the hands of Proteus.
In fact,
that whole scene in the beginning was a farce,
a mis-understanding of the true threat in that issue, and the rest of the arc.

How is this mis-understanding possible?

Because of their last confrontation with Proteus,
when he tried to download the Crystal Palace's indices in it's data base.

The Crystal Palace's network system was partially damaged,
they can access realities, teleport back & forth,

BUT ... (say it with me now)

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/9527/si2qi3.th.jpg
"We can't always see what's happening"
......................................................................................

And WHAT happened that was mis-understood?

Like the computer sumilation telling them Proteus is the threat to the Omniverse,

when in FACT,

it was Earth 1720's Reed Richards' TECH,
and Susan Richards, who turned evil in that world and became Madam Hydra.

As Madam Hydra, she wanted to use Reed's TECH, to conquer the Omniverse.

NOT Proteus, heck, Proteus isn't even mentioned after issue #1.


I'll get to that in a second ... with the PROOF as always.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Firstly, you label it hyperbole, which is just plain silly. It's not an exaggeration on the narrator's part, it's quite clearly an extremely unambiguous statement, with the meaning being quite fixed, and not up for variation. You have quite frankly no grounds to label it hyperbole.

My bad, it wasn't even hyperbole, just a computer glitch,

which I'll prove in a bit.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Secondly, you try to argue against it by claiming that Proteus is a Global threat at best, simply based on his showings. Well, absence of proof is nor proof of absence. Just because he hasn't shown such power, it doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Provide proof of a necessity for displaying such power, or drop the point. Given that Proteus' goal wasn't exactly anything mass destruction related, but simply to find the perfect host for which could contain his power, there would be no need to display power on such a level.

Actually Proteus tried to download the Crystal Palace's index to every reality during HOM,
he did this, to gain access to other realities,
in order to cause havok in them.

So yea, Proteus very much wanted to destroy and conquer.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Thirdly, you appear to think that the fact that the future never came into fruition somehow detracts from Proteus' displayed ability in the future. Here's a hint: it doesn't. Just like the definitive future that could have occurred with Jaspers, what prevented the one with Proteus from coming to pass was a plot device; that he wasn't able to regain control over his memories. This doesn't detract from the power level he possessed however, which would remain constant.

Upon new info learned,
that computer simulation was just a network glitch,
Exiles were running in circles thinking Proteus was the Omniversal threat,
we soon learned it was Reed Richards' TECH being manipulated by Madam Hydra,
Madam Hydra (Susan Richards)

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
So, your counter arguments are quite clearly worthless,
and the fact remains that Proteus, at that point in time, possessed the level of power capable of destroying the entire Omniverse.

My argument is "worthless"
yet you don't even know what the heck the arc was about.

You took one page from the first issue of the arc and ran for broke with it,
you should've read the rest of the arc friend.

Unlike yourself, I'll sustain from demeaning your mis-guided post.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Now, as for your example with Jaspers, there is a fundamental point that you're missing. These future timelines that would be collapsing are only the future timelines that would have been a product of the 616 timeline. This doesn't account for all the timelines that were non parallel to the Earth 616 Universe. So, as I said, the amount of the Omniverse that would be effected is quite frankly completely unknown. It's a great feat to be sure, but you're misinterpreting just how great.

Jaspers collapsed the entire Omniverse on panel
in a possible Future actually seen by Cobweb.

Nice try on the timeline spin, completely made up.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
As for my second piece of evidence for Proteus; from the same issue where he's stated to end creation in a "What If?" future,

Proteus has nothing to do with any "What If" future,
"What If" futures, are actually Alternate Universes in continuity.

Proteus was simulated by the network systems of the Palace owning the Exiles,
and destroying a couple of Planets in his hands.

We quickly learned that was a systems glitch,
the real threat was Reed Richards' TECH.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
he's stated as being "possibly the most powerful being in creation," meaning at the very least, he's at least close in power to anyone who may be above him in power.

Proteus is possibly a global power, nothing more ... if that.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Now you can meander all you want, but I'm fairly certain that my points speak for themselves,

Nah.

What we got here is a game of show & tell,
you're telling me everything and showing me nothing.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
and the fact remains that Proteus is logically more powerful than Jaspers, based both on what his power could achieve, and his given power status in the Omniverse.

I'll giggle later.

So the FACTS concerning Proteus and "the Enemy of the Stars arc"



So the Exiles' Crystal Palace network systems
conjures up a computer simulation defining a threat to Creation in the Omniverse:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3586/si1ix0.th.jpg

It's true, at first it seems to be Proteus BUT THEN ...

we learn the TRUTH!!!
...................................................................................................

The same system that simulated that fantasy,
is the same system that was damaged during HOM by Proteus

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3972/si2pn5.th.jpg
"Some kind of static is degrading our ability to scan the Timestream,
we can't always see what's happening"
...................................................................................................

We don't know this until we see Roma interfere for the sake of the Omniverse.

First Roma subtly inserts her consciousness/image into the simulation:

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1808/r1gp0.th.jpg
"Check that out, that looks like our Crystal Palace, (that's the Starlight Citidel)
but who's the woman?" (Roma)
...................................................................................................

Heather knows she saw a woman (Roma) in the simulation,
but Heather can't find the images anywhere,

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3343/r3ro6.th.jpg

That's because Roma wasn't part of that simulation,
that really was Roma realizing the Exiles are mistaken as to who/what is the threat to Creation.

I'll prove it.
...................................................................................................

Roma is still subtly making her appearance known,
everytime Heather rings up an Excalibur member from her files,
the Starlight Citidel briefly appears in Heather's screen, then vanishes:

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7260/r3tw8.th.jpg
...................................................................................................

But the Exiles still think its Proteus, or rather Morph
(who's really Proteus but thinks he's Morph)

So Roma begins to materialize herself within the Crystal Palace's data base screen:

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8189/r4jw6.th.jpg
...................................................................................................

Roma interferes and leads the Exiles to the REAL threat:

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8976/r5pt6.th.jpg
...................................................................................................

Immediately the Exiles are alerted to the World where the REAL threat is coming from:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1439/r6sa8.th.jpg

Notice that the computer systems are still F'd up somewhat.
...................................................................................................


So WHO"S the REAL threat?

Who desires to rule the Omniverse?

Who plans on conquering the Omniverse?

Who plans to REALLY be the Overlord of Creation?

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6274/omni2la2.th.jpg

And it has absolutely nothing to do with Proteus!

Now,

how is Earth 1720's Susan Richards (Madam Hydra) going to conquer the Omniverse?

Why, with Reed's TECH of course:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5648/omni3bw3.th.jpg
Why rule a World when I can offer you a prize that makes the very Stars irrelevant?"



http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7798/omni4zd6.th.jpg
"I offer the Omniverse"



http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/282/omni5bb3.th.jpg
"So my love,
you wish me on my merry way to conquer this Infinite number of Parallel Dimensions"
...................................................................................................

It seems like Reed is helping her, but in fact it's a trick.

...................................................................................................

After Heather finally learns the truth,
that it's Reed NOT Proteus who threatens Creation,
Heather tells the Exiles they must kill Reed,
to prevent Susan from getting Reed's TECH and using it:

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9977/omni11yq0.th.jpg
To preserve the sanctity of Crosstime ... Reed Richards must die"



http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/691/omni12ia5.th.jpg
"To save the World?" .... "Kill Reed Richards, or this whole Dimension gets wiped"



http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/567/omni13ad5.th.jpg
"According to HEather, he (Reed) lives ... bad guys (Susan) escape this World"




Reed knows about the plot to kill him,
how its because of his wife potentially escaping Reality 1720 with his TECH:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1838/omni14lc2.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ignorance, supported by further ignorance.



Yea, I think Proteus warped like a city or something similar,
I don't think it was even a Planet.
But unlike those others,
I won't demean the cat's possibility at being Global until I'm sure.



What should I be expecting?

I'll get it if its note worthy. Pretty much.

He's also crossed over into universes... that's all I can think of that is even worth mentioning...

Well, in first issue, the zombies ate Ego, and Hulk thunderclapped Thanos's head to kill him.
And well.. it's Zombies! Awesome!

Anyway,

Reed as always has it all figured out,
he helped Susan get her hands on his personal version of the UN,
Susan as expected uses it thinking she will erase that Dimension and survive:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6539/omni6dc5.th.jpg




So that Universe (1720) is erased from existence:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1094/omni61ct5.th.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4878/omni7lg5.th.jpg
"The Whole Dimesnion ... it's gone"





Heather is hoping it's another glitch, like the one earlier concerning Proteus:

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/430/si3wa8.th.jpg
"Don't believe your eyes woman,
Don't trust these systems, THEY'VE GLITCHED for you before"





Then Reality 1720 is re-created anew:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8484/omni71oo1.th.jpg



And yes, this was Reed's plan, and he used his TECH to accomplish it:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4399/omni72fl2.th.jpg

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6408/17852016cd4.th.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7512/93212795lc4.th.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6664/97407309bd1.th.jpg

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6978/70269508dh6.th.jpg

Master, Must you get diareah at the keyboard. you post so much I doubt people read all of it. It just looks like youv'e pwned and people give you props. And this thread isn't even worth actually commenting on. jaspers wins this with great ease.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Anyway,

Reed as always has it all figured out,
he helped Susan get her hands on his personal version of the UN,
Susan as expected uses it thinking she will erase that Dimension and survive:


Cool scans Mr. M., but question for you (off-topic): Since you have shown scans of the U.N. in alternate realities recreating their whole universe, and the U.N. of universe 616 (Galactus "prime" if you will) recreating the multiverse as a whole, with Galactus stating that the U.N. is part of himself, wouldn't that imply that the Galactus of 616 is really multiversal in nature? If a part of him can recreate the entire multiverse, and even a lesser version can create that individual reality's universe...

Originally posted by Kutulu
Cool scans Mr. M.

Just wanted to clear up the Proteus bull-hype.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Since you have shown scans of the U.N. in alternate realities recreating their whole universe, and the U.N. of universe 616 (Galactus "prime" if you will) recreating the multiverse as a whole, with Galactus stating that the U.N. is part of himself, wouldn't that imply that the Galactus of 616 is really multiversal in nature? If a part of him can recreate the entire multiverse,

Imo, Galactus has the potential to = the totality of Eternity (multiverse)
Galan merged with the previous Universe (IB)
from the previous universe came the current Omniverse.
It's not a strecth at all to place Galactus at a Multiversal level concerning his potential.

Galactus already has a Universe's worth of energy inside him,
this is why when he returned to his natural state,
he became a Star that will radiate energy outward forever.
heck, one of his would be Heralds wclaimed he was the embodiment of a Cosmos.

Originally posted by Kutulu
and even a lesser version can create that individual reality's universe...

Actually K,
Reed's tech had nothing to do with the UN,
I just said that cause it did what the UN can do (erase & re-create Space & Time)
the UN is on a whole nother scale.

But I guess dubbing it a "lesser version" isn't far off.

Good Lord you love to type a lot.

As usual, you're not sticking to the topic, and apparently think arguing Proteus' lack of significance in that story arc proves anything.

Firstly, you're again ignoring the fact that the Omniscient Narrator's words coincide with what he's capable of in the simulation. In case you didn't know, the Omniscient Narrator = all knowing. What he says = fact unless retconned. Meaning, even if you were correct about the simulation being wrong, the statement "possibly the most powerful being in creation" still stands, which would put Proteus in the same league as beings like the Living Tribunal.

Secondly, your argument that the simulation (that the Omniscient Narrator labels as what would actually happen) was wrong is essentially this:

Premise 1: The simulation labelled Proteus as the immediate threat.

Premise 2: We then see that it is in fact Earth 1720 that is the immediate threat.

Conclusion: The simulation was therefore somehow glitched, and what it shows us is wrong.

Not only can I directly disprove your conclusion wrong, by pointing out that the Omniscient Narrator's words coincide with what the simulation shows us (your attempt at a deduction doesn't disprove words from an all knowing being), but your major premise #1 is completely flawed, because, you're -as usual- misinterpreting the comics. The simulation doesn't label Proteus the immediate threat in any way, I really don't know where you got that from; it's simply showing the Exiles what would happen if Proteus were to regain his memories. Thus, it doesn't dispute with the fact that the immediate threat was on Earth 1720, meaning your argument that the simulation (and the Omniscient Narrator by default!) are wrong collapses.

Thirdly, Proteus isn't mentioned again after issue #1? I'll assume you were referring to issue #90, well, at least you're proving something! That you skim reads through your comics. He's actually mentioned in the latest issue of X-Men: Die by the Sword, when Morph is laying the Smackdown on Jaspers Reborn, and the narrator brings up how a part of him deep down enjoys it.

Lastly, as for your claim that Proteus wanted access to the entire Omniverse for the purpose of Mass Destruction, well you're again ignoring his immediate goal. As the simulation which depicts the future shows us, we know that Proteus had plans of such Mass Destruction in the long term sense, but as I've already explained, his immediate plan was to find a body that could sustain his energies. Immediate plans outweigh long term plans, meaning that my original point stands, which is that the fact that Proteus not displaying an Omniversal level of power doesn't mean that he doesn't have it.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Anyways Mr Master, given that you haven't responded, can I treat this as you conceding your argument? Otherwise a reply any time now would be great. Argument from silence much?

Was David Richards the name you used when you last visited here?


Hyperbole aside, Jaspers has this.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Argument from silence much?

How was that an argument from silence? I didn't conclude that he'd conceded simply because he had yet to reply, did I? That's right, I didn't, I simply asked whether such was the case, mainly because I knew that he had bee online since, had replied in other threads since, and strikes me as the type to reply to an argument that he was in the second he has the chance, if he can that is.



Excuse me? Good god, what is it with this forum and its wild and false accusations.



Here's a tip; use words when you know what they mean!

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
How was that an argument from silence? I didn't conclude that he'd conceded simply because he had yet to reply, did I?
Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Anyways Mr Master, given that you haven't responded, can I treat this as you conceding your argument?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
That's right, I didn't, I simply asked whether such was the case, mainly because I knew that he had bee online since, had replied in other threads since, and strikes me as the type to reply to an argument that he was in the second he has the chance, if he can that is.Justify it however you want, doesn't change what it is.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Excuse me? Good god, what is it with this forum and its wild and false accusations.Of course you wouldn't admit to it. Socking is a bannable offense.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Here's a tip; use words when you know what they mean! Here's a tip: Don't assume that a person doesn't know what a word is simply because you don't like the implications.

"The most powerful being in creation" is nothing more than an extravagant exaggeration. How many being have been called this?

So no, extravagant exaggerations on your part aside, Jaspers wins. because he's shown a great level of power that Proteus did not.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Justify it however you want, doesn't change what it is.

Sure it doesn't, but apparently you don't quite know what that is.

An argument from silence makes a conclusion based on a lack of given information. I didn't make a conclusion, I was simply asking whether I could treat his non-reply as him conceding the argument.

I didn't say: "because you haven't replied, it means that you therefore concede the argument"

^That would be an argument from silence, know what you're talking about, fool.



There's nothing to admit.



Use a word wrongly, and it's a fair assumption. Hyperbole is only used when the meaning is not fixed, and up for variation.



"Possibly the most powerful being in creation," actually, and no, that quite simply isn't subject to hyperbole, considering the fixed meaning of the sentence.

Further supporting the fact that it's not hyperbole is the fact that in the same definitive "What If?" future that Proteus is labelled as such, he is stated to at some point be responsible for the end of creation.

How many beings have been called this? None in a place outside of space-time where "Creation" would be taking into account the entire Omniverse from the perspective of a group of Super Heroes that deal with mentioned Omniverse...



Saying that he's more powerful simply because he has displayed such is as fallacious as it gets. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Provide proof of the necessity or drop the point. In case you didn't get that, I'm telling you that unless there is a need to display such a level of power, the fact that one doesn't means nothing. As already explained, Proteus' immediate goal after learning of the countless other Realities was to find the perfect host to contain his power, and he found that host in Morph (hell the fact that it took the body of a changeling to even contain his power speaks volumes alone). After doing so, The Exiles shortly restrained him with a device that buried all of Proteus' memories and personalities (his own and the different people he had at once possessed) except for that of his current host's: Morph's. He, at that point in time, had no need for a mass display of his powers.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Sure it doesn't, but apparently you don't quite know what that is.

An argument from silence makes a conclusion based on a lack of given information. I didn't make a conclusion, I was simply asking whether I could treat his non-reply as him conceding the argument.

I didn't say: "because you haven't replied, it means that you therefore concede the argument"

^That would be an argument from silence, know what you're talking about, fool.Verifying if your conclusion is right does not mean you didn't make a conclusion. You came to the conclusion that he had conceded from his lack of response. Had you not come to this conclusion you would not have asked as the thought wouldn't have crossed your mind.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
There's nothing to admit. Of course there isn't. Admiting that there was would give credence to you being a sock, which would then cause you to be banned.



Use a word wrongly, and it's a fair assumption. Hyperbole is only used when the meaning is not fixed, and up for variation.

Really? Doesn't look like the stipulation is in the dictionary:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=hyperbole
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/hyperbole?view=uk
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=38703&dict=CALD
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hyperbole&r=66


Originally posted by Ultra Omega
"Possibly the most powerful being in creation," actually, and no, that quite simply couldn't be hyperbole, considering the fixed meaning of the sentence. What was that about using a word, and not doing it unless you knew what the word meant?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
"Further supporting the fact that it's not hyperbole is the fact that in the same definitive "What If?" future that Proteus is labelled as such, he is stated to at some point be responsible for the end of creation. Circular reasoning. The comic is true because the comic says its true.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
How many beings have been called this? None in a place outside of space-time where "Creation" would be taking into account the entire Omniverse from the perspective of a group of Super Heroes that deal with mentioned Omniverse.. Speculation.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Saying that he's more powerful simply because he has displayed such is as fallacious as it gets. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Provide proof of the necessity or drop the point. In case you didn't get that, I'm telling you that unless there is a need to display such a level of power, the fact that one doesn't means nothing. Or I could just cite you the forum rle that you're breaking about how evidence is needed when you make the claim. You're claiming what was said in the comic was true. Where's your evidence that it is true?

Want me to cite you the rule? I'll be more than happy to oblige.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
As already explained, Proteus' immediate goal after learning of the countless other Realities was to find the perfect host to contain his power, and he found that host in Morph (hell the fact that it took the body of a changeling to even contain his power speaks volumes alone). After doing so, The Exiles shortly restrained him with a device that buried all of Proteus' memories and personalities (his own and the different people he had at once possessed) except for that of his current host's: Morph's. He, at that point in time, had no need for a mass display of his powers. OTher than as evidence of your claims. Sounds like you're trying to get out of proving those words true.

I'm well aware of ad ignorantiam. But its not excuse to say that your own claims do not require evidence for them to be true. Because just as its fallicious to say that something is false because there is no evidence for it. So is it falicious to say something is true because there
s no evidence against it.

However to refrain from exisitng in a state of eternal mental agnosticism one does require evidence to support ones claims. You claim the words of that comic to be true. Outside of the comic what evidence is there the words are true? Or could I likewise claim the bible is true because the bible says its true and claim ad ignorantiam should you challenge me to prove its true. As If evidence isn't needed then there would be truly no need for these debates as it'd all be opinion and speculation based off of nothing.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Verifying if your conclusion is right does not mean you didn't make a conclusion. You came to the conclusion that he had conceded from his lack of response. Had you not come to this conclusion you would not have asked as the thought wouldn't have crossed your mind.

Good lord you're dense. A conclusion is a decision that is absolutely reached. There's a difference between a thought or a feeling, and a conclusion. Making a logical assumption is not a conclusion. The fact that I was verifying it essentially shows that my judgement was not final. As I said, you're dense. Not to mention, you're arguing semantics when it's really not required. Fact remains, that an Argument from Silence reaches a final decision based on a lack of given information. That's not what I did, bottom line, and you apparently don't know how to point out Logical Fallacies.



I really don't care what you think, now drop this. I am not who you claim me to be.



Oh I just love debating with morons. Apparently you haven't yet understood that such meanings are not directly spelt out in a word's definition but what can be inferred from such. Now as I've said, hyperbole as in an exaggeration needs there to be a varied meaning for which there are means to exaggerate a word.

For instance, look at this sentence: "I am a man!"

Would you argue that that would be hyperbole? Of course not, because it has a fixed meaning and no means to exaggerate the meaning.

Whereas for this sentence: "I am very manly!" that can be considered hyperbolic simply because there's a degree of variance in the meaning of the word "very."



As you've been constantly showing, you know nothing about argumentation. Circular Reasoning assumes that the conclusion is correct in one of the major premises that the conclusion is dependant on.

For instance:

Conclusion: All humans are intelligent.

Premise 1: Dave, as a human, is intelligent.

Premise 2: There is not one human that is less intelligent than Dave.

Here, Premise 1 is relying on the conclusion being already correct before being able to prove such a thing.

My argument was absolutely logical, and completely different from that. I was simply saying that the statement which has Proteus eventually end Creation itself is quite clearly putting him on a high level of power, which supports the accuracy of the statement which you labelled an exaggeration.



No, it's a fact. No comic has had the Omniscient Narrator speak of such a character in such a light from the same perspective.



Apparently you've misunderstood what I was arguing.

I wasn't saying that Proteus is at such a level of power because there isn't any proof that he isn't. That would be fallacious, I know that, I don't need an amateur in debate to tell me that. I was simply tackling the claim that Proteus is not at such a level of power simply because he hasn't displayed it. Such is fallacious, unless one can point out a need for displaying such things, yet still not doing so.

My evidence for Proteus however, is something I have supplied in the form of quotes, which is essentially the Omniscient Narrator (aka All Knowing Being; what he says = fact) claiming that Proteus may be the most powerful being in creation, and that if he were to have regained his memories at a given time, he would have destroyed the entire Omniverse. That evidence alone puts Proteus right on up there with the true Elites such as The Living Tribunal, and logically puts him above Jaspers as well.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


Good lord you're dense. A conclusion is a decision that is absolutely reached. There's a difference between a thought or a feeling, and a conclusion. Making a logical assumption is not a conclusion. The fact that I was verifying it essentially shows that my judgement was not final. As I said, you're dense. Not to mention, you're arguing semantics when it's really not required. Fact remains, that an Argument from Silence reaches a final decision based on a lack of given information. That's not what I did, bottom line, and you apparently don't know how to point out Logical Fallacies. Yes, because rhetorical quesitions don't exist.

Wouldn't it just be easier to admit you made a mistake rather than try hard and only wind up making an ass out of yourself?

Oh right, you didn't make a mistake.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
I really don't care what you think, now drop this. I am not who you claim me to be. OF course you're not, if you were you'd get banned, and since you don't want that its better to lie about it.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Oh I just love debating with morons. Apparently you haven't yet understood that such meanings are not directly spelt out in a word's definition Words don't mean what they're defined to mean.

Not your words exactly... but you gotta admit, you're weasiling is cute.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
but what can be inferred from such. Now as I've said, hyperbole as in an exaggeration needs there to be a varied meaning for which there are means to exaggerate a word. Because the dictionaries are wrong and you are right...

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
For instance, look at this sentence: "I am a man!"

Would you argue that that would be hyperbole? Of course not, because it has a fixed meaning and no means to exaggerate the meaning.No, it's not a hyperbole because it needs something to exagerate... unless you're a boy it wouldn't be an exageration. But that doesn't change the fact that "The most powerful being in all of creation" is an exageration.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Whereas for this sentence: "I am very manly!" that can be considered hyperbolic simply because there's a degree of variance in the meaning of the word "very." What's being exagerated?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
As you've been constantly showing, you know nothing about argumentation. Circular Reasoning assumes that the conclusion is correct in one of the major premises that the conclusion is dependant on.Which is what you're doing... oh wait no you're not, you'd never make a mistake...

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
For instance:

Conclusion: All humans are intelligent.

Premise 1: Dave, as a human, is intelligent.

Premise 2: There is not one human that is less intelligent than Dave.

Here, Premise 1 is relying on the conclusion being already correct before being able to prove such a thing.

My argument was absolutely logical, and completely different from that. Denial is an ugly thing.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
I was simply saying that the statement which has Proteus eventually end Creation itself is quite clearly putting him on a high level of power, which supports the accuracy of the statement which you labelled an exaggeration.So...

Conclusion: Proteus is as powerful as they say he is.

Premise 1: They said he was.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega
No, it's a fact. No comic has had the Omniscient Narrator speak of such a character in such a light from the same perspective. Sure they haven't. Because its a neccesity to put on the qualifier "In the light from the same perspective". Which isn't even mentioned in the comics in order for your point to be valid. AS you are adding on infference that wasn't in the comics.. you are speculating.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Apparently you've misunderstood what I was arguing. Sure I have, the istake is always on my part, never on yours.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
I wasn't saying that Proteus is at such a level of power because there isn't any proof that he isn't. Then how about you prove it? Without any of that circular reasoning you didn't do before.


Originally posted by Ultra Omega
That would be fallacious, I know that, I don't need an amateur in debate to tell me that. I was simply tackling the claim that Proteus is not at such a level of power simply because he hasn't displayed it. Such is fallacious, unless one can point out a need for displaying such things, yet still not doing so.

From the trules thread:
No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.


There's your need. It's in the forum rules that you agree to by posting blah blah... usuall TOS stuff.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
My evidence for Proteus however, is something I have supplied in the form of quotes, which is essentially the Omniscient Narrator (aka All Knowing Being; what he says = fact) claiming that Proteus may be the most powerful being in creation, There's that circular reasoning thing you weren't doing before again.

"He's the most powerful being because they say he's the most powerful being."

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
and that if he were to have regained his memories at a given time, he would have destroyed the entire Omniverse. That evidence alone puts Proteus right on up there with the true Elites such as The Living Tribunal, and logically puts him above Jaspers as well. And your evidence that its true is the fact they said it was... nice... No circular reasoning there. I mean you're not using that which is in question as evidence of your claims or anything...

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're a real snake Nvr,
we haven't quarreled with animosity in a long time,
I been treating you with patience & respect for a while now, (even in disagreements)
and yet
you have to side with cats that enter threads just to vainly attempt to besmirch my name.

Cool, do what you do, I won't bite back in that manner.
When I see that you have stopped spamming threads with madness and scans, and actually start EXCHANGING in here, instead of choking people with your oft-incorrect "opinions" and insults, I will cease the besmirching.
By the way, the fact that you used the word "besmirch" outside of a court of law is truly frightening.


This is supposed to be fun.

Originally posted by Horrificus
By the way, the fact that you used the word "besmirch" outside of a court of law is truly frightening.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=besmirch

Dude, "Possibly the strongest being in creation" means NOTHING. If you had to follow every narration as fact, then Blackbolt is the second most powerful being in the galaxy.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yes, because rhetorical quesitions don't exist.

Wouldn't it just be easier to admit you made a mistake rather than try hard and only wind up making an ass out of yourself?

Oh right, you didn't make a mistake.

LMAO!!

You truly are one Grade A dumbass Creshosk. I actually can't believe you're still typing, you've actually been wrong on every single point in this thread.

A rhetorical question is asked in the sense that the answer is obvious, and not needed to be given. Asking whether Mr Master's lack of a response was an indication of him conceding is not a rhetorical question.



Quit the trolling. I'm not who you claim me to be, drop it.



Nice Strawman!!

Definitions don't have to elaborate into every way in which the word can be used if it's inherently there in the definition in the first place.

Exaggerations only exist when there are means at which to vary the degree of the meaning.



Nice Strawman!!

Definitions don't have to elaborate into every way in which the word can be used if it's inherently there in the definition in the first place.

Exaggerations only exist when there are means at which to vary the degree of the meaning.



Firstly, please at least try and get the quote correct. Possibly.

Secondly, both cases are parallel. Neither sentence has a variance in meaning to twist. They both have fixed meanings.



I didn't actually say that it was definitely an exaggeration, but that it was subject to it. "Very" as a word does not have a fixed meaning. It's relative. "Very manly" begs the question: "just how manly?" The degree of manliness an be twisted into an exaggeration.



No, I'm not. Firstly, I'm not even making a definite conclusion here anyway, but claiming that what the narration has Proteus go to do (ends creation) puts him on a level of power that supports the accuracy of the other statement (that he was possibly the most powerful being in creation at the time) is not circular reasoning. You don't actually know what you're talking about, and it's because you're an amateur at logic.



As is illogic.



LMAO. You're a funny guy. Apparently you haven't quite realise the whole concept behind the Omniscient Narrator.

He is all knowing. What he says = fact.

Omniscient Narrator says that Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in Creation, and that he would go on to end Creation in a definitive "What If?" future.

The idea that Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in Creation, and that he would go on to end Creation in a definitive "What If?" future = fact by default.

Arguing against the Omniscient Narrator is as good as denying what the comics shows us.

This is not circular logic, but simple, absolute truth.



Apparently you didn't get my point. When such statements are made within a reality, unless there is a direct reference to the other Realities, it would only apply to that Reality. Proteus' statement is made outside of space-time, from the perspective of a group that deals with the entire Omniverse. Meaning that it applies to the entire Omniverse, where other such quotes mostly don't.



One of the few correct things you've said.



LMAO!! Supplying a quote from the Omniscient Narrator is not Circular Reasoning.



LOL. Again, completely misunderstanding what I've been saying. I was saying that unless Proteus possessed a need to display something, the fact that he doesn't in no way says that he can't.

You've either chosen to again ignore my argument, or have once again missed what I was saying as well by the looks of it.



Again, know the meaning of terms before using them. What you're saying is tantamount to me accusing you of Circular Reasoning simply because you're providing indisputable evidence from the comics.

The Omniscient Narrator is all knowing. Everything he says is true (unless retconned). He says Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in creation, and would have ended creation had he regained his memories, ergo, such is the case. Quit arguing with canon.

MJJ stomps Proteus.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


LMAO!!

You truly are one Grade A dumbass Creshosk. I actually can't believe you're still typing, you've actually been wrong on every single point in this thread.

A rhetorical question is asked in the sense that the answer is obvious, and not needed to be given. Asking whether Mr Master's lack of a response was an indication of him conceding is not a rhetorical question.
The more you think little of my intelligence the more reassured of it I am. Because if you disagree with me then as far as I've seen I can't be wrong.

Hell, you even argued against a dictionary definition, adding on more than was there. But keep dancing your antics amuse me so.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Quit the trolling. I'm not who you claim me to be, drop it.I'm not the one trolling, sock.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Nice Strawman!! I already said they weren't your words exactly... did you miss that part?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Definitions don't have to elaborate into every way in which the word can be used if it's inherently there in the definition in the first place. Excuses.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Exaggerations only exist when there are means at which to vary the degree of the meaning. Exactly. "Most powerful being in creation" as there are other, not as powerful beings... or hell others were called the most powerful beng s in creation Without your assinine stipulations that didn't exist in the comics but have to be there so that you're right...

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Nice Strawman!! No, that would be a strawman. Did I say that you said that? No.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Definitions don't have to elaborate into every way in which the word can be used if it's inherently there in the definition in the first place. Same ol' lame ol' excuse. The word isn't used the way you want it to be. Simple as.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Exaggerations only exist when there are means at which to vary the degree of the meaning. Like power?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Firstly, please at least try and get the quote correct. Possibly.I'm quoting from AFTER that point. Although that word weakens the certainty of the statement.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Secondly, both cases are parallel. Neither sentence has a variance in meaning to twist. They both have fixed meanings. Sure they do...

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
I didn't actually say that it was definitely an exaggeration, but that it was subject to it. "Very" as a word does not have a fixed meaning. It's relative. "Very manly" begs the question: "just how manly?" The degree of manliness an be twisted into an exaggeration.ITs a nice red herring but doesn't address the fact that "most powerful being in creation" (Possibly is meaningless other than to cast a certain ammount of uncertaintiy on the idea) is an exaggeration.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
No, I'm not. Firstly, I'm not even making a definite conclusion here anyway, but claiming that what the narration has Proteus go to do (ends creation) puts him on a level of power that supports the accuracy of the other statement (that he was possibly the most powerful being in creation at the time) is not circular reasoning./quote] You're using that which is in question as evidence to prove that which is in question. Yeah, circular reasoning.


Originally posted by Ultra Omega
You don't actually know what you're talking about, Coming from the guy who has to change the dictionary definition of a word in order for it to agree with him...

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
and it's because you're an amateur at logic. Thank you, coming from you I'll take that as a compliment.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
As is illogic.Which you're an expert on using. But not recognizing.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
LMAO. You're a funny guy. Apparently you haven't quite realise the whole concept behind the Omniscient Narrator.Appearently you haven't grasped the whole concept behind.. well anything really.

Among those is the concept of what makes good writing, or debate.

I notice a distinct lack of coraborating evidence to your claims... I gave you the need. Because its in the rules.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
He is all knowing. What he says = fact. And What qualifies this one as being all knowing? Because you say so? More cicular reasoning abounds.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Omniscient Narrator Can I see a bio for "Omniscent Narrator"?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
says that Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in Creation, and that he would go on to end Creation in a definitive "What If?" future.More circular reasoning.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
The idea that Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in Creation, and that he would go on to end Creation in a definitive "What If?" future = fact by default. According to circular reasoning sure...

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Arguing against the Omniscient Narrator is as good as denying what the comics shows us. Which so far is MJJ doing more than Proteus has... Which you're also denying.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
This is not circular logic, but simple, absolute truth.You can call your horseshit truth. but its still horseshit.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Apparently you didn't get my point. When such statements are made within a reality, unless there is a direct reference to the other Realities, it would only apply to that Reality. According to who?

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Proteus' statement is made outside of space-time, from the perspective of a group that deals with the entire Omniverse. Meaning that it applies to the entire Omniverse, where other such quotes mostly don't. Speculation.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
One of the few correct things you've said. I see sarcasm is wasted on you... Nice to know you can't even pickup on that.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
LMAO!! Supplying a quote from the Omniscient Narrator is not Circular Reasoning.LMAO!! Yes it is when that's what's in question.

"The Bible is true, cause god wrote the bible, and we know that god wrote the bible because it says in the bibel that god wrote the bible, so therefore the bible is true"

The comic is true cause the comic said the comic is true.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
LOL. Again, completely misunderstanding what I've been saying. I was saying that unless Proteus possessed a need to display something, the fact that he doesn't in no way says that he can't.Breaking the rules again I see.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
You've either chosen to again ignore my argument, or have once again missed what I was saying as well by the looks of it. No I'm seeing you're breaking the rules of Logic and those of the forum.

So there's nothing VALID that you've said so far. Alot of weasling, with excuses and invalid arguments you've given a bounty of.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Again, know the meaning of terms before using them. What you're saying is tantamount to me accusing you of Circular Reasoning simply because you're providing indisputable evidence from the comics. "Know the meaning of terms" coming from somone who still gets words wrong after several different dicitionaries are all provided for you that show you that you're wrong? Oh right "Insert excuse here as to why you were right"

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
The Omniscient Narrator is all knowing. Everything he says is true (unless retconned). He says Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in creation, and would have ended creation had he regained his memories, ergo, such is the case. Quit arguing with canon. I'm not arguing with canon, I'm arguing with you. And you're arguing with circular reasoning.

"The comic's true because the comic says it's true."

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
The Omniscient Narrator is all knowing. Everything he says is true (unless retconned). He says Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in creation, and would have ended creation had he regained his memories, ergo, such is the case. Quit arguing with canon.
The narrator is wrong all the time. It said Black Bolt is the second most powerful being in the galaxy. It was clearly wrong in that case because there are many beings who have displayed greater power then Black Bolt.

In this case, it's clearly wrong because Proteus hasn't displayed anything on that level.

Hasn't the narrator said that Hulk is the strongest being in creation?
Hulk>LT in strength.

But wait, Thor was said to equal Hulk I believe, so...
Thor=Hulk>LT.

But hold on, LT is second to God, so it would go like this:
Thor=Hulk>LT>Thor=Hulk.

But, that would automatically make Hulk and Thor God though, wouldn't it, because they are the strongest in creation, so the real list would be:
Thor=Hulk>LT>everyone else, and everyone else being Bi-Beast, and Odin.

But wait, Bi-Beast has beaten Hulk more often than they have stalemated, and Hulk's never beaten him one on one (to my knowledge), and Odin is way stronger than Thor, so...
Odin=Bi-Beast>Thor=Hulk>LT>Odin and Bi-Beast in strength?

Crap, Odin said that Galactus rivals his own omnipotent might (and I believe the omnipotent narrator said it as well)! So...



So, Richards, where exactly does it end?

Also, where did the omnipotent narrator say this about P-dog? The burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
the statement "possibly the most powerful being in creation" still stands,
which would put Proteus in the same league as beings like the Living Tribunal.

ka-dur Bran, you gotta save this.
Originally posted by Creshosk
OTher than as evidence of your claims. Sounds like you're trying to get out of proving those words true.

I'm well aware of ad ignorantiam. But its not excuse to say that your own claims do not require evidence for them to be true. Because just as its fallicious to say that something is false because there is no evidence for it. So is it falicious to say something is true because there
is no evidence against it.

However to refrain from exisitng in a state of eternal mental agnosticism one does require evidence to support ones claims. You claim the words of that comic to be true. Outside of the comic what evidence is there the words are true? Or could I likewise claim the bible is true because the bible says its true and claim ad ignorantiam should you challenge me to prove its true. As If evidence isn't needed then there would be truly no need for these debates as it'd all be opinion and speculation based off of nothing.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Hasn't the narrator said that Hulk is the strongest being in creation?
Hulk>LT in strength.

But wait, Thor was said to equal Hulk I believe, so...
Thor=Hulk>LT.

But hold on, LT is second to God, so it would go like this:
Thor=Hulk>LT>Thor=Hulk.

But, that would automatically make Hulk and Thor God though, wouldn't it, because they are the strongest in creation, so the real list would be:
Thor=Hulk>LT>everyone else, and everyone else being Bi-Beast, and Odin.

But wait, Bi-Beast has beaten Hulk more often than they have stalemated, and Hulk's never beaten him one on one (to my knowledge), and Odin is way stronger than Thor, so...
Odin=Bi-Beast>Thor=Hulk>LT>Odin and Bi-Beast in strength?

Crap, Odin said that Galactus rivals his own omnipotent might (and I believe the omnipotent narrator said it as well)! So...



So, Richards, where exactly does it end?

Also, where did the omnipotent narrator say this about P-dog? The burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Hasn't the narrator said that Hulk is the strongest being in creation?
Hulk>LT in strength.

But wait, Thor was said to equal Hulk I believe, so...
Thor=Hulk>LT.

But hold on, LT is second to God, so it would go like this:
Thor=Hulk>LT>Thor=Hulk.

But, that would automatically make Hulk and Thor God though, wouldn't it, because they are the strongest in creation, so the real list would be:
Thor=Hulk>LT>everyone else, and everyone else being Bi-Beast, and Odin.

But wait, Bi-Beast has beaten Hulk more often than they have stalemated, and Hulk's never beaten him one on one (to my knowledge), and Odin is way stronger than Thor, so...
Odin=Bi-Beast>Thor=Hulk>LT>Odin and Bi-Beast in strength?

Crap, Odin said that Galactus rivals his own omnipotent might (and I believe the omnipotent narrator said it as well)! So...



So, Richards, where exactly does it end?

Look, I never said that words from an Omniscient Narrator weren't subject to retcon, which is what would happen to the quote you mentioned given the contradictory evidence. However, there is no such contradictory evidence for the one regarding Proteus, just supporting evidence, where Proteus then goes on to destroy the entire Omniverse. Meaning, unless you can prove that the quote would be retconned based on contradictory evidence, you have to accept it as fact.



It's been provided about three times. Here's a hint: enter a thread, and read back a few pages. You might learn something!

Originally posted by Ultra Omega


Look, I never said that words from an Omniscient Narrator weren't subject to retcon, which is what would happen to the quote you mentioned given the contradictory evidence. However, there is no such contradictory evidence for the one regarding Proteus, just supporting evidence, where Proteus then goes on to destroy the entire Omniverse. Meaning, unless you can prove that the quote would be retconned based on contradictory evidence, you have to accept it as fact. What about this?
Proteus has never shown it.

Plus, when did he destroy the omniverse?

Also, when did Hulk get ret-conned into not being the strongest there is? It's only actual showings that disprove this, and not the omniversal narrator. Apparently, showings don't negate what the omniversal narrator say.



Originally posted by Ultra Omega
It's been provided about three times. Here's a hint: enter a thread, and read back a few pages. You might learn something! I'm sorry if I don't feel like reading through this thread entirely. I just want to see the scan, and not have to wade through everything.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Dude, "Possibly the strongest being in creation" means NOTHING. If you had to follow every narration as fact, then Blackbolt is the second most powerful being in the galaxy.

And Thor has been stated to be the strongest man in creation.

Just like Odin is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
What about this?
Proteus has never shown it.

He doesn't need to show it. It's stated on panel that that was what he was going to do.



All shall be revealed.



Don't twist my words. When showings firmly depict limits for a character, then they can be used to say that another is definitely more powerful. But when they don't, and people try and put Jaspers over Proteus because he's displayed more, it's fallacious beyond belief. Proteus didn't need to display more. He had been searching for a perfect host to contain his power; that was his top priority goal, any kind of mass display of power wasn't on his agenda. In fact, the very Exiles #90 would support that line of thought as well:

Exiles #90, Enemies of the Stars Part 1 (of 5):

First Page: "The mind and soul are those of Kevin Mactaggart, also known as Proteus, quite possibly the most powerful being in Creation."

"Today, once and for all, he means to prove it."

So clearly he had no need to have ever proven it in the past, yet when he feels he need to, he absolutely demolishes the Exiles, crushes entire planets with his bare hands, and then goes on to destroy the entire Omniverse.



Exiles #90, Enemies of the Stars Part 1 (of 5)

First Page: "For the Exiles, this is the way Creation ends."

Creation in this context would be the Omniverse, given it's being stated from an outside space-time observation, and the "for the Exiles" indicates such given that the Exiles deal with the entire Omniverse.

"The mind and soul are those of Kevin Mactaggart, also known as Proteus, quite possibly the most powerful being in Creation."

Here, The Omniscient Narrator is suggesting that it's highly likely that Proteus may be the most powerful being in the entire Omniverse, putting him in a league with beings like the Living Tribunal.

Both quotes are coming from the Omniscient Narrator, meaning that they are as much fact as are what the panels would depict for the storyline.

If you can provide contradictory, that's great, but until then, they're a part of canon, and arguing against them is arguing against canon.

Originally posted by Creshosk
The more you think little of my intelligence the more reassured of it I am. Because if you disagree with me then as far as I've seen I can't be wrong.

Hell, you even argued against a dictionary definition, adding on more than was there. But keep dancing your antics amuse me so.

Says the moron who doesn't know the difference between a conclusion and a thought.



Continuing to label me a sock when it has nothing to do with the topic is trolling, idiot.



No, didn't miss it at all, however you were still distorting my stance into something easily defeated, which essentially is what a Strawman is.



Translation: I have no counter argument whatsoever, so I will hereby post a laughing slimy so others might think that I'm not fuming behind my keyboard.



I don't even wanna know what you're babbling on about here, but the fact remains that the sentence: "Possibly the most powerful being in Creation" has a fixed meaning, and is not subject to hyperbole.

And no other being has been labelled as such from the observations of the entire Omniverse.



Don't be dense. You don't have to literally say that I'm saying such for it to be a Strawman. Fact of the matter is, your sarcastic comment is essentially distorting my argument into something easily defeated. You're making it seem like my argument is claiming that the dictionary is wrong, which is not the case. As I said, know your terms before using them.



No, you just apparently don't understand that exaggerations would not be applicable with statements that have a fixed meaning.



You're still not getting this.

Possibly the most powerful being in Creation.

"Powerful," in this context, has a fixed meaning. It can only mean one thing: "possessing great power." In this context, there is no variance in the degree of "power," simply because the word "most" is setting up the extent of "power." As I said, you're a Grade A dumbass Creshosk.



Didn't deny that, but that doesn't make it hyperbolic. It's simply questioning whether Proteus would possess such a status of power, yet suggesting that it's very likely at the same time.



As already explained, they do. "Most Powerful being in Creation" is not subject to hyperbole, bottom line.



As already explaind, no.



No, it's coming from the guy who can understand complexities of definitions.



Funny. You're trying to be clever, yet still failing. A compliment, by definition, would have the person handing the statement out consider what he's saying something positive. So, to recap, you fail at being a smartass. Unlucky.



Says the idiot who considers supplying words from an all knowing being circular reasoning.



This would mean so much more if you actually knew how to read. If you did, you'd noticed that I supplied the issue number, the exact quotes, the context of the quotes, as well as the page on which they appear in the comics.

And again, when I said "provide proof of the necessity" I was speaking in reference to Proteus, and him not displaying what would be consistent with his given status. Simply because he hasn't displays such means nothing unless you can prove that he would have needed to, yet still didn't.



Well, I knew comic book versus forumites were supposed to be somewhat lacking in the brain department, but I had no idea that they could be this thick. Seriously, I'm actually kinda blown away. I feel like I'm talking to a ten year old. Now, for the forum retards, the Omniscient Narrator, in Literature, is he who exists outside of the story, and provides it. He essentially tells us the story, and as such, in respect to the story, his word is infallible. Denying his words in the comics is as good as denying the artists colouring the X-Men's Beast blue.



If you actually knew what Circular Reasoning was, this might actually mean something. Again, what you're accusing me of would be like me accusing you of labelling the Beast blue as circular reasoning.



No, I'm not denying that, I'm denying the assertion that that somehow means that he's automatically more powerful.



You drawing parallels between the Omniscient Narrator and horseshit underlies the fact that you have no clue what you're talking about.

According to logic (I'd love for you two to meet sometime). Such statements are relative to the reality around them. It's why, for instance, with characters like X-Man, rather than labelling him simply the most powerful psionic power there is, writers go out of their way to label him as the most powerful psionic force in any reality. It's really not that hard to understand.



Labelling it as such does not qualify as a counter argument. It's outright said that "For the Exiles, this is the way Creation ends." The Exiles are a group that travel around the Omniverse ensuring its safety. The end of Creation, for them, would mean the end of the Omniverse. And again, it's stated outside of space-time, meaning that with no specific reality mentioned, it would apply to all.



Oh right, yeah, of course, I honestly had no idea that that was sarcasm. I actually really believed you were being serious there, thinking that the mistakes are always on your part, despite arguing otherwise like a moron for the rest of the post. Yeah, I can't pick up on sarcasm at all.



Believe that if it helps you think you actually know anything about debating. Again, all I'm doing is pointing out that the comics label him as such. You accusing that as being circular reasoning is like accusing Mr Master of Circular Reasoning when he posts his scans.

Fact: Omniscient Narration is perfectly Canon (it's how literature works I'm afraid).

Fact: Omniscient Narration labels Proteus as and states that he would .

Fact: By default, are perfectly Canon.

You denying this shows just how much of an idiot you really are.

Again, as far as Canon goes, Omniscient Narration and on panel depictions are on par. You wouldn't deny that the Beast is blue now, would you?



False Analogy. With the Bible, you're bringing into question how such claims fit into real world truth. It's not intended to be a fictional work. The narrator is not Omniscient by default, and can be accused of being wrong if it claims that everything inside it is true and factual in the real world setting.

Comics are fictional pieces of work, and the Omniscient Narrator is essentially telling us the fictional story. His words essentially define canon (as do the artist's drawings).



No, more like: Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in Creation because the Omniscient Narrator says so. In the context of the storyline, The Omniscient Narrator's words are 100% factual, and thus because he says such, such is factual.

Here, I'll lay it out nice and clear for you.

Argument: Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in creation.

Premise 1: The Omniscient Narrator's words say as much.

Premise 2: The Omniscient Narrator's words are fully canon.

Conclusion: The idea that Proteus is possibly the most powerful being in Creation is perfectly canon.

As you can see, the premises being correct are not dependant on the actual Conclusion being correct.

Please, know what you're talking about.



How is that breaking the rules. All that the rules say is that you have to provide reasons for your views. I have, in the form of quotes. This part of the argument is not my supporting evidence, I'm just defeating the argument that Jaspers > Proteus because he has displayed more, as it has no place in logic.



If you actually knew what logic was, this might mean something.



Says the dumbass who has no less than 5 times incorrectly pointed out a Logical Fallacy in my post.



One word: conclusion. Only an idiot wouldn't the meaning of such a simply word.

Again, your ineptness at applying context to dictionary definitions is your problem, not mine.



Know what you're talking about idiot.

Circular Reasoning!