Ion vs. SBP rematch

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Kutulu
The concept is this:
It's the same fight: Sodam Yat vs. Superboy Prime. With the exception that this time, Sodam gets the prep listed below for the fight. How would it have turned out differently under these circumstances?

* Training for 1 week under each of the following GL's:
- Killowag
- Guy Gardner
- Hal
- Kyle
* Before the fight, Sodam gets to have a sundip (superman style) for ten minutes.
* Sodam is briefed on his lead poisoning weakness in addition to his training with the Ion force / Green Lantern powers.

Estacado
Like Hulk vs Dr Strange without CIS.

Kutulu
Originally posted by Estacado
Like Hulk vs Dr Strange without CIS.

huh

Astner
SMP >>>>>>> Mxy > Ion

Kutulu
Originally posted by Astner
SMP >>>>>>> Mxy > Ion

This was SBP though, before he got his upgrade that he beat Mxy with.

Gecko4lif
Sbp still beats him

Ion would do alot better thou

I see sbp taking 4
Drawing 5 and ion taking 1

Sirius77
True.

Soljer
Depends on whether the S-shield is in effect or not.

nvrbeenwthagirl
No way SBP would have won if Sodam had half a clue. He didnt' even know he had heat vision for christ's sake. that was the best the guardian's could come up with? IT must be more surpises in store for the conclusion.

Soljer
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No way SBP would have won if Sodam had half a clue. He didnt' even know he had heat vision for christ's sake. that was the best the guardian's could come up with? IT must be more surpises in store for the conclusion.

Many have said that it felt very "Round one" ish to them.

I don't really expect Yat to come back and beat Prime, but neither do I expect him to be out of the war entirely. The twelfth can't get here soon enough.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Soljer
Many have said that it felt very "Round one" ish to them.

I don't really expect Yat to come back and beat Prime, but neither do I expect him to be out of the war entirely. The twelfth can't get here soon enough.

I didnt' get the tales of ION book. Did that come out yet? Maybe it holds some clue to what is going on with ION. For all we know, ION will be the one to come back later on and "depower" the Amped SMP.

Val
It's obvious whats going on. The whale hates Yat and misses Kyle so he chose to let Yat flop on his face. Poor whale. sad

Sirius77
What were kyle ions feats?

Soljer
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I didnt' get the tales of ION book. Did that come out yet? Maybe it holds some clue to what is going on with ION. For all we know, ION will be the one to come back later on and "depower" the Amped SMP.

Comes out the twelfth.

Sirius77
Wait, never mind, I just went to the respect thread.

ion didn't use his full capabilities, but if he did it would have been a ridiculous fight, and alot of damage would have been done to Superman-prime, but I still dont think that he would have won.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Sirius77
Wait, never mind, I just went to the respect thread.

ion didn't use his full capabilities, but if he did it would have been a ridiculous fight, and alot of damage would have been done to Superman-prime, but I still dont think that he would have won.

ION in full capabilities is like mr. mxy without the magic.Just cosmic. He woudl turn SMP inside out on his ear. Wrap him up in a universe and crunch him. Mxy did a similiar type thing to the ultimator. didnt' crunch him but you get the picture.

Sirius77
I doubt that ion is even close to myx imo. From what I saw on the respect thread, hes powerful, but nowhere near myx. Not old or new.
Old ion would probably win.

Soljer
Originally posted by Sirius77
I doubt that ion is even close to myx imo. From what I saw on the respect thread, hes powerful, but nowhere near myx. Not old or new.
Old ion would probably win.

Ion I would stomp the ever loving shit out of Prime.

Ion II would have gotten one shotted.

Ion III did alright, I guess, considering weakness exploitation and rookie-ness - both with his Daxam heritage and Ion power.

Val
Ion II > Ion III

Soljer
Originally posted by Val
Ion II > Ion III

Sodam Yat > Kyle.

Val
Originally posted by Soljer
Sodam Yat > Kyle.
At bench pressing, perhaps. Not when it comes to being a Lantern.

Soljer
Originally posted by Val
At bench pressing, perhaps. Not when it comes to being a Lantern.

You act as if anything besides the bench press is important.

If DC has made anything clear in their years of publishing, it's that big muscles win the day.

Every.

Damned.

Time.

Estacado
Originally posted by Val
It's obvious whats going on. The whale hates Yat and misses Kyle so he chose to let Yat flop on his face. Poor whale. sad
It's a megalodon...estahuh

Avlon
Originally posted by Val
Ion II > Ion III

By a decent margin at this point at least.

Val
Originally posted by Avlon
By a decent margin at this point at least.
So do you think our boy Doakes is done for? sad

batdude123
Originally posted by Val
At bench pressing, perhaps. Not when it comes to being a Lantern.

Originally posted by Soljer
You act as if anything besides the bench press is important.

If DC has made anything clear in their years of publishing, it's that big muscles win the day.

Every.

Damned.

Time. Owned.

Avlon
Originally posted by Val
So do you think our boy Doakes is done for? sad

Nah...at least..not by Dexter's hand.

Val
Originally posted by Avlon
Nah...at least..not by Dexter's hand.
Maybe not but I can't see Doakes surviving this season. He knows too much.

Doakes aww

Avlon
Originally posted by Val
Maybe not but I can't see Doakes surviving this season. He knows too much.

Doakes aww

He'll probably get shot and killed by Deborah.

Sirius77
Originally posted by Soljer
Ion I would stomp the ever loving shit out of Prime.

Ion II would have gotten one shotted.

Ion III did alright, I guess, considering weakness exploitation and rookie-ness - both with his Daxam heritage and Ion power.

I wasn't talking about classic ion.

Avlon
Kyle was a better ION than Yat.

I don't think that Yat being a Daxamite makes a real difference when hosting that kind of power.

Kyle has survived worse as ION and with less difficulty.

Sirius77
Agreed, but I never said that ion I was inferior.

Avlon
Ion 1 was leaps and bounds superior to the current IONs.

Ion 2 was still pretty powerful.

Ion 3 has potential, but no real experience at either being a GL or Daxamite.

Kyle just comes off as the better ION at this point....and that's not counting his original stint as omnipotent ION.

Sirius77
ion I had the ability to rewrite the cosmos according to specter.

I don't see why they powered him down so much...

Val
Originally posted by Sirius77
ion I had the ability to rewrite the cosmos according to specter.

I don't see why they powered him down so much...
Ion I had all the Oan energy to himself. Ion II and III share it between thousands of individuals.

Sirius77
Oh, that explains it then. It makes alot of sense, thanks man.

Erik-Lensherr
People are making too much of a case about the lead affecting Sodam. Yes, it shouldn't have but that doesn't change the fact that when they got in the cemetary it was never mentioned again and Sodam didn't show any sign of being affected by it afterwards.

They are also complaining too much about Sodam Yat going toe to toe with Superboy when he could have used his powers instead. Well for anyone who didn't notice Sodam Yat did blast Superboy Prime twice but he just wouldn't go down. And seeing as how Superboy was over him practically the whole fight, I don't see what the problem is . He didn't really have time to come up with a plan on how to beat him.

KK the Great
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
People are making too much of a case about the lead affecting Sodam. Yes, it shouldn't have but that doesn't change the fact that when they got in the cemetary it was never mentioned again and Sodam didn't show any sign of being affected by it afterwards.

Which doesn't really matter, seeing as the damage was already done. While he was weakened, Yat had a large uranium shaft shoved through his body. He suffered a critical injury almost immediately.

Erik-Lensherr
In case you didn't notice, as I said, he was recovered in the cemetary.

KK the Great
Recovered from the lead poisoning, sure.

Recovered from the hole in his abdomen and accompanying internal bleeding?

Erik-Lensherr
Did you even read the comic ?

KK the Great
I sure did. Well enough to know that you're making things up that weren't in it.

Soljer
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
People are making too much of a case about the lead affecting Sodam. Yes, it shouldn't have but that doesn't change the fact that when they got in the cemetary it was never mentioned again and Sodam didn't show any sign of being affected by it afterwards.

They are also complaining too much about Sodam Yat going toe to toe with Superboy when he could have used his powers instead. Well for anyone who didn't notice Sodam Yat did blast Superboy Prime twice but he just wouldn't go down. And seeing as how Superboy was over him practically the whole fight, I don't see what the problem is . He didn't really have time to come up with a plan on how to beat him.

For your first point, about the lead, I don't think you understand just how big a weakness lead is for Daxamites. It isn't simply analogous to Kryptonite - the minute amounts of lead found in our atmosphere is almost instantly lethal to them, much less being kicked around in a reactor full of it.

As for the second.....do you think firing a small blast of green at your enemy is all a Lantern ring is capable of?

Really?

Originally posted by KK the Great
Which doesn't really matter, seeing as the damage was already done. While he was weakened, Yat had a large uranium shaft shoved through his body. He suffered a critical injury almost immediately.

thumb up.

Erik-Lensherr
False accusations



In case you haven't noticed the green lantern power stopped the lead poisoning from progressing and actually started reversing the process. So practically everything the lead had done to his body aswell as the injuries sustained were being repaired.

The lead poisoning is reversed :

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/975/reversepoisoningqj1.th.png

And the progress of the poisoning is stopped :

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/9381/stopprogressvq6.th.png




Where did I say that ?

I pointed out that Yat actually tried using the green lantern energy against him two times in their fight but as I also pointed out, Superboy was all over him so there wasn't time for him to actually come up with a plan to beat him.

Soljer
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
False accusations



In case you haven't noticed the green lantern power stopped the lead poisoning from progressing and actually started reversing the process. So practically everything the lead had done to his body aswell as the injuries sustained were being repaired.

The lead poisoning is reversed :

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/975/reversepoisoningqj1.th.png

And the progress of the poisoning is stopped :

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/9381/stopprogressvq6.th.png




The ring never claimed it has successfully reversed the lead poisoning, just that it was attempting to. Further, noting that removing the ring would lead to progressive poisoning doesn't mean the damage hadn't already been dealt.

Erik-Lensherr
Originally posted by Soljer
The ring never claimed it has successfully reversed the lead poisoning, just that it was attempting to. Further, noting that removing the ring would lead to progressive poisoning doesn't mean the damage hadn't already been dealt.

Are you saying that the line about the ring attempting to fix the damage was put there for nothing, despite the fact that nothing points out that he didn't succed, the fact that Yat was obviously fine later in the fight and the lead poisoning or its effects were never mentioned again ? erm

It's pretty obvious that the ring stopped the lead poisoning from advancing and reversed the damages the amount of lead that he was exposed up the the point had done.

quanchi112
I have read the issue and actually agree with erik on this matter. Really though its hard to prove either case without asking the writer what kind of effect the lead poisoning really had on Sodam. Did the effects linger or did the ring neutralize it and was he allowed to recover? I know it hurt him badly but I felt he recovered later in the fight and that it wasnt touched on. So I think that damage was indeed done early but that he recovered. Prime was just to much for him. Round one goes to Prime with or without the lead poisoning but round 2 and once he figures his shit out who knows? I dont think they pumped up Sodam as the new Ion for nothing.

TricksterPriest
Anyone remember Mon-El? Daxamite who visited earth when Clark was a kid? Well, Mon-El was poisoned from a small breadbox sized lead box. And it almost killed him in about 10 seconds. Clark had to stick him in the phantom zone to save his life. And they couldn't cure him until the 31st century and the LSH. Supes tried for centuries to find a way to cure him of the lead poisoning. I think even a GL ring would have considerable trouble reversing that kind of damage.

Val
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I think even a GL ring would have considerable trouble reversing that kind of damage.
A GL ring was able to recreate Kyle Rayner's entire body after he was disintegrated. Lead poisoning? Lulz.

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by Val
A GL ring was able to recreate Kyle Rayner's entire body after he was disintegrated. Lead poisoning? Lulz.

I'll shut up now. embarrasment

Edit: Though, that alone pretty much proves Kyle>Yat. stick out tongue

KK the Great
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Are you saying that the line about the ring attempting to fix the damage was put there for nothing, despite the fact that nothing points out that he didn't succed, the fact that Yat was obviously fine later in the fight and the lead poisoning or its effects were never mentioned again ? erm

It's pretty obvious that the ring stopped the lead poisoning from advancing and reversed the damages the amount of lead that he was exposed up the the point had done.

So you keep saying.

But where did you get the impression that "reversing the lead poisoning" would in any way undo the damage he had sustained before the lead poisoning was reversed?

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2610/injuryyn8.jpg

Sirius77
Originally posted by KK the Great
So you keep saying.

But where did you get the impression that "reversing the lead poisoning" would in any way undo the damage he had sustained before the lead poisoning was reversed?

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2610/injuryyn8.jpg

His daxamite physiology. If daxamites are anything like kryptonians (which they are) they also have the healing factor that comes along with the powerset.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Sirius77
His daxamite physiology. If daxamites are anything like kryptonians (which they are) they also have the healing factor that comes along with the powerset.
Maybe it is one of the differences between them

Avlon
Daxamites don't recover from lead even when it's taken away from them. Their cells just seem to go into an unrecoverable atrophy.

Quite a difference from Kryptonians, who recover fairly quick once kryptonite is taken out of the picture.

Sirius77
Interesting. Well I was talking about the actual wound itself. I see no reason why it woundnt heal.

Avlon
Given the status of the ION enhancements... that whole scene is pretty suspect.
I've seen standard GL's get through worse injuries.

Sirius77
Thats why I think that sbp would have beat him even with training.

sbp was toying with him. When he said that ion "was no more than superman-lite with a power ring." he was right in a sense. To sbp, that is what he is. I think that hes more powerful than people think. Why else would the am have chosen him out of everyone in both universes to be his herald and not even bother to give him a sc ring?

KK the Great
Originally posted by Sirius77
Interesting. Well I was talking about the actual wound itself. I see no reason why it woundnt heal.

I see even less reason why it would heal.

Sirius77
Because its arguably part of his overall powerset.

Sundipped
Originally posted by Avlon
Given the status of the ION enhancements... that whole scene is pretty suspect.
I've seen standard GL's get through worse injuries.

Exactly what I was thinking. Should be no prob for whoever inherits the Ion power.

KK the Great
Originally posted by Sirius77
Because its arguably part of his overall powerset. \

Yeah, I've heard the argument for Superman's "healing factor."

It was less than compelling.

UniOmni
Originally posted by Sirius77
Because its arguably part of his overall powerset.

When sunlight is in abundance.

No healing rays of the sun, no healing.

And Daxamites are poisoned by lead upon exposure.

Hence why Mon-el has to get medicine to stave off the effects.

Nothing like Kryptonians, but i figure that's a crutch DC added to keep the kryptoklan shielded.

DC cut the comic from underneath the minute they decided to add in lead poisoning, and knock Yat back down to rookie status.

He wasn't a vet, but he wasn't freshly green either(no pun intended).

They want Prime to be an above the top tier no questions asked, but has he dominated a top tier yet without any outside circumstances clouding the win?

Between WWJoke, and SCorpes, the big two just don't wanna commit to changing the pecking order definitely.

Sirius77
Originally posted by UniOmni
When sunlight is in abundance.

No healing rays of the sun, no healing.

And Daxamites are poisoned by lead upon exposure.

Hence why Mon-el has to get medicine to stave off the effects.

Nothing like Kryptonians, but i figure that's a crutch DC added to keep the kryptoklan shielded.

DC cut the comic from underneath the minute they decided to add in lead poisoning, and knock Yat back down to rookie status.

He wasn't a vet, but he wasn't freshly green either(no pun intended).

They want Prime to be an above the top tier no questions asked, but has he dominated a top tier yet without any outside circumstances clouding the win?

Between WWJoke, and SCorpes, the big two just don't wanna commit to changing the pecking order definitely.

It was stated in the comic that there wasnt a cloud in the sky and that it was a sunny day.

And he just beat ion easily and your still trying to...

Forget it. Believe what you want. Comics dont lie.

Sirius77
Originally posted by KK the Great
\

Yeah, I've heard the argument for Superman's "healing factor."

It was less than compelling.

Hes healed from a stroke, a kryptonite shotgun to the chest, etc

UniOmni
Originally posted by Sirius77
It was stated in the comic that there wasnt a cloud in the sky and that it was a sunny day.

And he just beat ion easily and your still trying to...

Forget it. Believe what you want. Comics dont lie.

He beat an Ion who was portrayed as an incompetent rookie, and didn't use any of the power he held, and merely went toe to toe with a blatant physical superior.

Not to mention the lead exposure which clouds the win.

SMP HASN'T BEATEN ANYONE (a name top tier) THUS FAR, WITHOUT OUTSIDE CIRCUMSTANCES BEING IN PLAY.

Mitigating circumstances in the SMP vs Ion fight?

Lead poisoning.

Fights going good(stupidly on Yats part, but still good), and then whammo, lead exposure....... Victory clouded.

DC won't commit to this villain.

Don't insinuate me as biased, when it's clear to see, on panel.

Death of Superman wouldn't have made DD such a name, if we found out the rumble in Metropolis caused a leak in a Luthor storehouse, and gas kryptonite was all around the decisive battle, would it?

KK the Great
Originally posted by Sirius77
Hes healed from a stroke,

So has my dad.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by KK the Great
So has my dad. I know that's not funny, and I've had strokes in my family as well... but... laughing out loud

Kutulu
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I know that's not funny, and I've had strokes in my family as well... but... laughing out loud doctor

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by UniOmni
He beat an Ion who was portrayed as an incompetent rookie, and didn't use any of the power he held, and merely went toe to toe with a blatant physical superior.

Not to mention the lead exposure which clouds the win.

SMP HASN'T BEATEN ANYONE (a name top tier) THUS FAR, WITHOUT OUTSIDE CIRCUMSTANCES BEING IN PLAY.

Mitigating circumstances in the SMP vs Ion fight?

Lead poisoning.

Fights going good(stupidly on Yats part, but still good), and then whammo, lead exposure....... Victory clouded.

DC won't commit to this villain.

Don't insinuate me as biased, when it's clear to see, on panel.

Death of Superman wouldn't have made DD such a name, if we found out the rumble in Metropolis caused a leak in a Luthor storehouse, and gas kryptonite was all around the decisive battle, would it?
Going good...not in yats favor from the very beggining or did we forget yat getting messed up with a 2 handed uppercut,and i guess hal jordan and guy gardner dont count as top tiers anymore huh,i hear this everywhere i go,sbp has shown that hes just superior to nearly every top tier more then once.

Estacado
The guy thinks that Classic Rogue could have destroyed Earth 15 the same way as Prime did in Countdown.haermm

UniOmni
The hardest part of what Prime did was tearing through the core.

Rogue might be stopped by that, sure.

That aside, i think it could be done.

Charging through a planet is an elite top tier feat, sure, but it's the surviving it where the feat comes in.

Grey Hulk did it.

Stardust did it.

Prime did it, and nice feat but it's not the end all of planetary feats.

And the Yat fight was going decently.

They charge one another, goes into the water, where they're burning each other via heat vision.

Prime hits him with a clubbed blow, knocking him back into a factory where it promptly goes into warning, lead exposure, ring compensation mode.

It was a decent fight, until DC swept the legs from underneath it.

Erik-Lensherr
Originally posted by KK the Great
So you keep saying.

But where did you get the impression that "reversing the lead poisoning" would in any way undo the damage he had sustained before the lead poisoning was reversed?

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2610/injuryyn8.jpg

You mean besides the fact that he wasn't wounded later when they were fighting in the cemetery and the fact that the ring can repair injuries ? erm

Val
Originally posted by UniOmni
The hardest part of what Prime did was tearing through the core.

Rogue might be stopped by that, sure.

That aside, i think it could be done.

Charging through a planet is an elite top tier feat, sure, but it's the surviving it where the feat comes in.

Grey Hulk did it.

Stardust did it.

Prime did it, and nice feat but it's not the end all of planetary feats.
Name the last time Rogue destroyed a planet.

Can you seriously just fess up and admit that was stupid?

Galan007
Originally posted by Kutulu
The concept is this:
It's the same fight: Sodam Yat vs. Superboy Prime. With the exception that this time, Sodam gets the prep listed below for the fight. How would it have turned out differently under these circumstances?

* Training for 1 week under each of the following GL's:
- Killowag
- Guy Gardner
- Hal
- Kyle
* Before the fight, Sodam gets to have a sundip (superman style) for ten minutes.
* Sodam is briefed on his lead poisoning weakness in addition to his training with the Ion force / Green Lantern powers. Meh,
That whole fight smelt like PIS to me...

Citing -- lead poisoning, little to no use of actual GL powers during said battle, and Yat's comment that he had been holding back throughout most the fight -- as my reasons why. ermm

Sirius77
Originally posted by UniOmni
He beat an Ion who was portrayed as an incompetent rookie, and didn't use any of the power he held, and merely went toe to toe with a blatant physical superior.

Not to mention the lead exposure which clouds the win.

SMP HASN'T BEATEN ANYONE (a name top tier) THUS FAR, WITHOUT OUTSIDE CIRCUMSTANCES BEING IN PLAY.

Mitigating circumstances in the SMP vs Ion fight?

Lead poisoning.

Fights going good(stupidly on Yats part, but still good), and then whammo, lead exposure....... Victory clouded.

First off, he had the power of ion fixing the lead poisoning as it was happening. That was stated in the comic.

As far as lead exposure in the clouds... what? He has a gl shield on at all times. At the time he had the ion shield.

So, no, there were no outside circumstances, sbp just raped him, and made fun of him while doing it.


Originally posted by UniOmni
DC won't commit to this villain.

Don't insinuate me as biased, when it's clear to see, on panel.

Then why are you trying to say that the ring wasnt filtering out the lead poisoning when it was said on panel? I dont have to callyou anything.


Originally posted by UniOmni
Death of Superman wouldn't have made DD such a name, if we found out the rumble in Metropolis caused a leak in a Luthor storehouse, and gas kryptonite was all around the decisive battle, would it?

If superman had a gl ring and the power of the battery on his side all filtering out the poisoning, dd would be considered transcendant or higher. So yes.

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