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I'm sure you are all aware of my strong distaste for the LOTF in terms of character development and hell, even reality in the Star Wars universe. There are two other problems I'd like to address here, as my other opinions are in the other thread.

1. "They say that Qui Gon Jinn killed a Sith on Naboo". Did the authors even READ the novel or watch the movie before writing this crap?

2. Jaina apparently believes she has the same potential as Jacen because they are twins. The authors are making it seem Jacen's potential surpasses Luke's, which would pretty much go against GL, so this would mean Jaina could also become more powerful than Luke.

These authors need to learn the art of consistency and write better novels.

the qui-gon comment was lame. I mean everyone knew that obi-wan killed him so the authors weren't thinking there.

about jaina i think she does have the same potential as jacen but i don't think she'll reach it in that matter of weeks or months.

But i don't think Jacen is as powerful as luke. Ya the authors are makeing him more powerful in ways that doesn't make sense. I still don't understand how after killing mara he all of a sudden was now on par with masters.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
But i don't think Jacen is as powerful as luke. Ya the authors are makeing him more powerful in ways that doesn't make sense. I still don't understand how after killing mara he all of a sudden was now on par with masters.
What I don't understand is the fact that they imply that he's a match for Luke (which shouldn't be the case), he has master level abilities. What does that even mean? No Jedi Master in the new order or the old order could come close to Luke, but they imply that if you have master level capabilities, you can contend with him. Furthermore, how does he go from being pinned down in the force by Luke with absolutely no effort, to being a "match" for him, or even his superior in saber/force combat. Stupidity.

I hope someone realize that since Jacen is a MALE and Jaina a FEMALE they are FAKE twins, so they have 2 diferent genetic codes, they are like 2 normal brothers, they only diference is that they were concieved at the same time. So no, Jaina has not the same potential as Jacen...

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What I don't understand is the fact that they imply that he's a match for Luke (which shouldn't be the case), he has master level abilities. What does that even mean? No Jedi Master in the new order or the old order could come close to Luke, but they imply that if you have master level capabilities, you can contend with him. Furthermore, how does he go from being pinned down in the force by Luke with absolutely no effort, to being a "match" for him, or even his superior in saber/force combat. Stupidity.

I get what your saying but i don't think that luke was giving his all during his fight in inferno. In sacrifice he dueled lumiya without pwning her but then when he wanted to kill her he did it not only with ease but in minutes.

Also something that was hindering luke was the death of mara and he didn't really get over that until fury.

I agree, it didn't make sense that Luke completely overwhelmed him when confronting him on the Solo before the Jedi Order left the Alliance, and now everytime it talks about a prospective duel its always "one of them (luke, jacen) will die"
The real problem is, they made Luke TOO powerful in previous books. Now there is no one in the universe who can stand against him. So they have to pretend Jacen can, even though everyone who has read what Luke is capable of, and what Jacen is capable of knows luke would win, every time. Real problem with them implying that Jacen may be the greatest swordsman in the history of the Galaxy. Where the heck did that come from? since when did Jacen specialize in combat? it was always "explore the force" with him before.

I know thats crap.

It's like the authors didn't take in mind that Kyle was the second best in the order when it comes to lightsaber dueling it sounds like to me that they were making seba out to be better than kyle and that mara was on his skill level.

did anyone else get that from the books so far?

well, i mean kyle has mastery of the dark-side techniques. (as we all see from the games, which is really all we have to go on with kyle) but he doesn't use them at all against jacen, or in any of the other books as far as i know.

Originally posted by kamhal
I hope someone realize that since Jacen is a MALE and Jaina a FEMALE they are FAKE twins, so they have 2 diferent genetic codes, they are like 2 normal brothers, they only diference is that they were concieved at the same time. So no, Jaina has not the same potential as Jacen...



How so? How are they FAKE twins as you say? Are you a twin? Do you have twins in your family history?

After this dreadful series ends, they better go back to the drawing board with the NJO.

I remember how people wnated post ROTJ EU to go beyond the imperials, but looking at this, the imperial remnant era was the best post ROTJ fiction.

The first mistake they made with the EU was Luke's power level, authors like Zahn were very conscious of how GL had potrayed the Jedi before and he had the best idea for a post ROTJ Luke.

We all knew Luke may well surpass Vader/Anakin in the force but the authors of the NJO certainly lost their perspective. This power level shit, has no place in SW.

Originally posted by Allankles
After this dreadful series ends, they better go back to the drawing board with the NJO.

I remember how people wnated post ROTJ EU to go beyond the imperials, but looking at this, the imperial remnant era was the best post ROTJ fiction.

The first mistake they made with the EU was Luke's power level, authors like Zahn were very conscious of how GL had potrayed the Jedi before and he had the best idea for a post ROTJ Luke.

We all knew Luke may well surpass Vader/Anakin in the force but the authors of the NJO certainly lost their perspective. This power level shit, has no place in SW.

well what are you going to do? kill luke? seriously, if they kill luke, the star wars EU dies with him. I don't like everything about LOTF, but imo its some of the best star wars writing since outbound flight.

the EU will not die with.

i don't see how it could embrace a new generation of heroes. If luke goes down, it pretty much follows that the other aging heroes will be soon to follow. Do you think a star wars audience could adjust to an EU without any characters anchored by movies?

Originally posted by truejedi
well what are you going to do? kill luke? seriously, if they kill luke, the star wars EU dies with him. I don't like everything about LOTF, but imo its some of the best star wars writing since outbound flight.

I gave up on post ROTJ EU after Vector Prime, so that's a whole lot of EU I don't care about. I did like Book 13 Traitor, and a few others (the Tahiri books and the one Corran Horn book). Outbound flight came out 1 and half years ago, there hasn't been much SW literature to compare LOTF with.

Luke should never have been overpowered to begin with, that's why Jacen is being upgraded, Luke is the root of the problem here.

EU would survive, because the latter parts of the post ROTJ EU have made Luke a lot less compelling. He was cool back in the Zahn saga, the courtship of princess leia etc, he isn't cool now. His transition from adventuring Jedi knight and blossoming Jedi master to wise grand master hasn't been a smooth one.

As for the new characters, the Legacy comic series has been ok without a living Luke. The question is, what will the authors do with their plot solutions to make SW a little less stale? What direction they take Cade will be key, it would help if he's not another Ulic Qel Droma.

Excuse me, but I believe the empowerment of Luke was necessary in order to reflect Anakin Skywalker's power at his full potential, so it's actually more realistic than Jacen, who's bloodline is watered down, to be even close to Luke. I hope someone takes care of this problem.

Well what can they do with Darth Caedus? In my opinion, they have made him a thoroughly unlikeable villian. He is obviously arrogant, and makes every decisions based on emotion. Whereas he started down the path to the dark side in order to bring peace and justice to the galaxy, he is now fixated on revenge against the jedi, and squashing those who oppose his rule. They've not left him ONE likeable quality. Usually successful villians in star wars have a fan base (vader, General G, Sidious, even Maul, and how many Dooku fan boys are there out there?) I can't see Cade being the future of Star Wars. Maybe some of the Sith from Korriban. (which is a huge contradiction to the movies, in which Anakin "destroyed the Sith" But Cade needs to die soon, he's annoying. The longer he lingers in the EU, the more annoying the EU becomes. (that is of course, my opinion)

monkeys can do better these the EU f**ks

I know the thread is about Fury, but this is about the ninth book Invincible...

Jaina is on cover of Invincible

http://www.starwars.com/eu/lit/novel/news20071205.html

Oh great now its jaina going to be as powerful as jacen or luke and i bet jaina is the one going to kill jacen.

LOTF is really full of bullshit

Jacen really shouldnt be able to contend with Luke in one on one. I honestly dont think he should be above Corran, Kyp, Kyle, and maybe Saba either. Yes, he has a lot of potential and training, but the perviously mentioned Masters have equal if not more training and far more experince.

I wonder if that's Jaina finding Jacen or one of the new sith, cause I don't recall Jacen having long blonde hair. Anyways, it should be Luke that kills Jacen, not Jaina, although this whole sword of the jedi thing makes me think that they're going to kill off the old characters and pave the way for these new ones. But yea, bullshit is right.. Jacen shouldn't be able to contend with the likes of Katarn or Kyp. A 5 year sabbatical isn't supposed to turn you into a force god.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Excuse me, but I believe the empowerment of Luke was necessary in order to reflect Anakin Skywalker's power at his full potential, so it's actually more realistic than Jacen, who's bloodline is watered down, to be even close to Luke. I hope someone takes care of this problem.

I have no problem with Luke becoming more powerful, but his power up was done very carelessly. From DE (which I found poor) to his Vong saga feats, a lot of plot devices that were thrown around carelessly and turned the once mystical and subtle Force, into a Power Cosmic/Odinforce clone.

His power level was done without perpective, there's a reason why GL's Sith/Jedi don't create force storm vortex or move balck holes.

The only reason Jacen is being powered up beyond the expected levels is so that he can contend with Luke. If Luke's power was handled more intelligently, the LOTF story - as it is - wouldn't have this issue.

You know allankles, caedus being uber for no apparant reason is one thing, but its likely due to the fact he learnt from so many people, vegere,luke,lumiya.

But jaina being as powerful jacen? Despite the fact that she has less knowledge of the force than jacen and all of a sudden she can contend with caedus?

That is a truck load of shit. Hell as Sexy even said, they (The idiot authors) didn't even realise it was obi wan who killed maul and to make things worse they didn't even admit they are wrong unlike drew who admitted he wrote vaapad in POD by mistake.

they've completely ran out of villians that can have any shred of realism. How many weapons can the galaxy have? the galaxy is going to have to have some kind of peace soon so some new weapons can be built. Its been almost 40 years of all-out war hasn't it? with each conflict be painted to bigger and more tumultous than any before it.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
You know allankles, caedus being uber for no apparant reason is one thing, but its likely due to the fact he learnt from so many people, vegere,luke,lumiya.

But jaina being as powerful jacen? Despite the fact that she has less knowledge of the force than jacen and all of a sudden she can contend with caedus?

That is a truck load of shit. Hell as Sexy even said, they (The idiot authors) didn't even realise it was obi wan who killed maul and to make things worse they didn't even admit they are wrong unlike drew who admitted he wrote vaapad in POD by mistake.

I agree with Saxy, I was just pointing out the origin of all this power level mess. If Luke's powers were handled with a repsect to GL's vision in the movies and with a consideration of the nature of the force, we wouldn't be having this mess.

Besides the whole Vong force immunity thing, the way the latter parts of post ROTJ EU has been handled is dreadful.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
You know allankles, caedus being uber for no apparant reason is one thing, but its likely due to the fact he learnt from so many people, vegere,luke,lumiya.

But jaina being as powerful jacen? Despite the fact that she has less knowledge of the force than jacen and all of a sudden she can contend with caedus?

That is a truck load of shit. Hell as Sexy even said, they (The idiot authors) didn't even realise it was obi wan who killed maul and to make things worse they didn't even admit they are wrong unlike drew who admitted he wrote vaapad in POD by mistake.

Note: Fury spoiler

It's possible that Jaina got more powerful during her time training with Boba Fett, so she now has both Mandalorian and Jeedai training. However, NOWHERE has it EVER been said that Jaina becomes as powerful as Jacen. The cover is now out, and it features Jaina (a hot-looking Jaina, I might add. And if you say she's not because her face, in the words of Revan, is "scrunched up like a kinrath pup", remind yourself that Jaina at any NJO or post-NJO time is hot) leaping at Caedus, lightsaber drawn. You see the back of Caedus' head and his lightsaber, but that's it. Also, Jaina looks pretty damn mad. Maybe something happened in Revelation that made her angry...but that's just speculation.

Bottom line is that nowhere does it say that Jaina becomes as powerful as Jacen, and I don't even know where that came out of. It just shows her fighting him. If you want to see it, go to Wookieepedia and look in the Invincible article.

Jacen shouldn't be able to be as powerful as Luke either. I bet they make Ben even more powerful than Luke or Jacen to pave the way for the new generation. IF this is the case, then the transition has been utterly ridiculous and illogical, if not piss poor.

as for ben

well look at the legacy comics. It's safe to say that Kol is Bens son due to how far ahead in the future the comics take place.

I don't think ben will be as powerful as luke but i do think that he'll become a great master and be on the council if not be the grand master and lead the jedi order to how it was during the old republic.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
as for ben

well look at the legacy comics. It's safe to say that Kol is Bens son due to how far ahead in the future the comics take place.

That is another problem I have. Here we have the epic struggle going on and like 80 years later the sith rule the galaxy it just makes all the things Luke and his order going through seem in vein if his order doesn't even last 2 centuries.

i do agree there but i was trying to say that after LOTF there should be peace in the galaxy until the sith-imperial war starts in the legacy comics

They screwed up the LOTF series but I think they completely bombed the Legacy series. Sure, the story is good and the fact that darth Krayt was is Hett was badass, but they should have either done it a few hundred years later at the very least, or not done it at all since it does undermine Lucas' legacy. At the same time, him and his order are called pretenders. I kinda understand that except for the fact that his order is based on the ancient sith so it's weird they would call them pretenders. Anyways, the authors really screwed up the timelines and what Lucas really wanted.

Personally, I feel SW should have ended with the death of Palpatie on Endor, but I do somewhat understand how Lucas wanted to let his greatest hero grow and establish the fact that he represented a full potential Anakin. Other than that, books should be made about the old republic and everything pre OT. They should just have left everything after the OT alone.

well, there won't be peace between the two series, at some point the Jedi order must once again be wiped out. Unless..... Jacen wins. And if Jacen wins, i'm done with Star Wars EU, b/c Jacen is the most annoying Sith since Anakin himself. (and Anakin was a whining brat)