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I know....this should be clear cut right? WWH pwned Strange, didn't he?

Not necessarily. Strange didn't want to kill hulk. what if he had wanted to? he only saw the danger of the hulk AFTER the hulk broke his hands. I'm saying, what if bnoth of them wanted to kill each other from the beginning. Who wins?

If both are going all out, Strange crushes him easily.

Dr. Strange would just BFR him like he has in the past.

dunno if Hulk can be killed, as in permanent, but Strange could have (and has in the past) bfr'd him.

that Strange needed to channel someone of the order of Zom shows just how aware Strange was on the challenge he had on his hands (excuse the pun).

and don't forget, Zom/Strange wasn't even testing Hulk's limits, not even close to testing them. even though he repeatedly punched right through Hulk's body, it healed up within seconds (whilst still under duress).

we don't know what the limits are of Hulk's damagesoak, nor have we seen any indication of a limit on the amount of energy and force he can dish out (seeing as he prevented himself from ever going all out on ANYBODY).

so do you think strange was lying or engaging in hyperbole when he said he could snuff out the hulk's mortal flame with but a twitch of his finger?

im actually really asking. im not sure if it was possible or not.

Well, it was said Dr. Strange could easily kill WWH, but at an enormous cost.

If they go all out, Dr. Strange wins and would be able to kill him.

Hulk smashes puny magiks

I thought that was just hyperbole, because he would have at least rendered Hulk impotent if it was THAT easy to kill him, no?

I know Strange didn't set out to kill Hulk, that he was morally conflicted with the decisions he was party to as part of The Illuminati, but he also was resolute in his desire to 'end' The Hulk's 'rampage'... so?

when he came back to face Hulk as Zom/Strange, he had every intention of destroying The Hulk, through "smashing" him. so it wasn't the smartest idea but it was a seriously high level of respect to give Hulk, when he channelled Zom (as I have said before, he wouldn't channel Zom if all he wanted was some mid-Herald level of power to use against Hulk. Zom is just insane overkill, even as a fragment, for something like that).

Originally posted by janus77
I thought that was just hyperbole, because he would have at least rendered Hulk impotent if it was THAT easy to kill him, no?

I know Strange didn't set out to kill Hulk, that he was morally conflicted with the decisions he was party to as part of The Illuminati, but he also was resolute in his desire to 'end' The Hulk's 'rampage'... so?

when he came back to face Hulk as Zom/Strange, he had every intention of destroying The Hulk, through "smashing" him. so it wasn't the smartest idea but it was a seriously high level of respect to give Hulk, when he channelled Zom (as I have said before, he wouldn't channel Zom if all he wanted was some mid-Herald level of power to use against Hulk. Zom is just insane overkill, even as a fragment, for something like that).

True, but Zom was still easily beaten (fraction of his power). He was smashing Hulk, but with no result, while WWH easily KO-ed him.
Apparently Dr. Strange defeating Hulk would mean killing Hulk, because otherwise he would not be able to stop him. Zom wasn't close to KO him or even hurting him for more than one second.

We know that that fragment (we don't know how much) wasn't even enough to hold against WWH.

Originally posted by Xplosive
True, but Zom was still easily beaten (fraction of his power). He was smashing Hulk, but with no result, while WWH easily KO-ed him.
Apparently Dr. Strange defeating Hulk would mean killing Hulk, because otherwise he would not be able to stop him. Zom wasn't close to KO him or even hurting him for more than one second.
I don't think he was 'easily beaten', just a combination of Strange's realisation that he is not capable of holding power of that immensity without going insane (thus his comments immediately after Hulk saves the bystanders) and Hulk's increased strength.

Hulk seems to fight according to a 'mirror strategy', if the enemy's a cl 100, he is too, if the enemy's a cl 60 so is he ... and in the case of Zom/Strange he just ramped up his durability and strength to cope with the challenge.

also, I disagree with the idea that Strange would need to kill Hulk to beat him. bfr would suffice, dimension or distance variety. it's just that Hulk would return and return with a vengeance, which is what Strange feared.

but for KMC purposes, bfr = victory.


also, perhaps Strange could make a magical spell to siphon off Hulk's gamma into another (dead?) universe?

Originally posted by janus77
I don't think he was 'easily beaten', just a combination of Strange's realisation that he is not capable of holding power of that immensity without going insane (thus his comments immediately after Hulk saves the bystanders) and Hulk's increased strength.

It was easily in my eyes, just because Hulk needed few punches to brutally beat him.
And Dr. Strange/fraction of Zom was far from stopping Hulk or KO-ing him.

Originally posted by janus77
also, I disagree with the idea that Strange would need to kill Hulk to beat him. bfr would suffice, dimension or distance variety. it's just that Hulk would return and return with a vengeance, which is what Strange feared.

but for KMC purposes, bfr = victory.

Yes, but that isn't enough for stopping him, like it was said, he would only return stronger. To stop Hulk, Dr. Strange should kill him.

Anyway, Dr. Strange wins this via bfr or by killing him.

Originally posted by Old-Wizard.com
so do you think strange was lying or engaging in hyperbole when he said he could snuff out the hulk's mortal flame with but a twitch of his finger?

im actually really asking. im not sure if it was possible or not.

I think this was a slight hyperbole, but he could definitely wipe out Hulk without too much effort.

Originally posted by janus77
I thought that was just hyperbole, because he would have at least rendered Hulk impotent if it was THAT easy to kill him, no?

I know Strange didn't set out to kill Hulk, that he was morally conflicted with the decisions he was party to as part of The Illuminati, but he also was resolute in his desire to 'end' The Hulk's 'rampage'... so?

when he came back to face Hulk as Zom/Strange, he had every intention of destroying The Hulk, through "smashing" him. so it wasn't the smartest idea but it was a seriously high level of respect to give Hulk, when he channelled Zom (as I have said before, he wouldn't channel Zom if all he wanted was some mid-Herald level of power to use against Hulk. Zom is just insane overkill, even as a fragment, for something like that).

But my point is, he channeled Zom when his hands were already broken. what if strange had set out from day one to KILL the hulk...not stop him. would it really be as easy as a twitch of his finger?

I mean, I don't think channeling Zom would have been strange's first choice, had his hands not been broken. i think he had easier ways to kill hulk.

Originally posted by janus77
dunno if Hulk can be killed, as in permanent, but Strange could have (and has in the past) bfr'd him.

that Strange needed to channel someone of the order of Zom shows just how aware Strange was on the challenge he had on his hands (excuse the pun).

and don't forget, Zom/Strange wasn't even testing Hulk's limits, not even close to testing them. even though he repeatedly punched right through Hulk's body, it healed up within seconds (whilst still under duress).

we don't know what the limits are of Hulk's damagesoak, nor have we seen any indication of a limit on the amount of energy and force he can dish out (seeing as he prevented himself from ever going all out on ANYBODY). Hulk CAN be killed.
Most notably, was when Hoarfen ATE him.
He was, without mincing words, "resurected". Like, from the dead.

Oh you're all so right. Tony's satellites are probably far more capable then the world's Sorcerer Supreme.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Hulk CAN be killed.
Most notably, was when Hoarfen ATE him.
He was, without mincing words, "resurected". Like, from the dead.

Yup.

If Strange wanted to kill him, he could.

Strange's whole dilema was that he didn't want to kill Hulk, and he didn't want to BFR him, and make him somebody else's problem again.

He figure the use of Zom's power could possibly incapacitate Hulk, which, it seemed like he was on his way to doing, until Strange lost focus.

All out, no reservations, using the rules of this forum, Strange wins easily.

Alan Scott could kill the Hulk with one arm behind his back.

Strange has one-shotted the Defenders before (minus Surfer)... I can't see Strange losing if he fights smart.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Strange's whole dilema was that he didn't want to kill Hulk, and he didn't want to BFR him, and make him somebody else's problem again.

He figure the use of Zom's power could possibly incapacitate Hulk, which, it seemed like he was on his way to doing, until Strange lost focus.

All out, no reservations, using the rules of this forum, Strange wins easily.

He picked Zom as a last resort in order to kill the Hulk when he realized all other options had been exhausted since his hands were pulverized.

He wasn't trying to incapacitate the Hulk as Zom though; that's a stretch for even the biggest Hulk haters and is completely ridiculous.

I agree that Strange would win over WWH every time 10/10 if he has full use of his abilities though.

Why does Strange need the full use of his abilities here any way?

People make it sound like "fighting smart" means more than Strange simply twitching his fingers.

Originally posted by Accel
Why does Strange need the full use of his abilities here any way?

People make it sound like "fighting smart" means more than Strange simply twitching his fingers.

"Full use" comes up in this context because during WWH he didn't have full use of his abilities. If he only has partial use (ie. Zom) then he could potentially lose.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Well, it was said Dr. Strange could easily kill WWH, but at an enormous cost.

If they go all out, Dr. Strange wins and would be able to kill him.

Slightly contradictory there, but yes, Strange would slaughter any hulk if he was given a sufficient reason to.

Strange obliterates him.

Current jobbing Strange might lose a few. Classic Strange wins 10/10 with a snap of his fingers.

Has Strange ever officially been depowered recently or is that all just based on his bigger losing record?

Originally posted by Accel
Has Strange ever officially been depowered recently or is that all just based on his bigger losing record?

Maybe his Skrull magic is weaker. umm



































































Just kidding.

Originally posted by Accel
Has Strange ever officially been depowered recently or is that all just based on his bigger losing record?

He says he's not as powerful as he used to be. And he's having trouble doing thing that he was easily doing a few years ago. Like levitation, teleports, etc. Something weird is going on with Marvel's magic. Even Talisman says she's been depowered.

I think it was stated by Marvel (Was it Quesada specifically? Can't remember.) that Strange was too powerful and seemed to be able to deal with anything thrown at him, hence the depowerment.