KH Sephiroth v.s. Dante

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Sol Valentine
Who wins?

Wandering Flame
I know what everyone's going to say.

As for what I have to say, it would probably be smart to let Dante not have Quicksilver.

Once that's taken out, this would be interesting to watch. They're both very fast and Sephiroth has effective teleportation and lethal spells.

Violent2Dope
I agree, take off QS.

EvilAngel
Sephiroth can block bullets with ease. QS wouldn't make any difference. Sephiroth is out of Dante's league.

Wandering Flame
*Surprised*

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Sephiroth can block bullets with ease. QS wouldn't make any difference. Sephiroth is out of Dante's league. And Dante can't block bullets? Lol.

EvilAngel
Sephiroth doesn't have a gun, and wouldn't use one?

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Sephiroth doesn't have a gun, and wouldn't use one? You made it seem like Dante can't block bullets like Seph can, when he has.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
You made it seem like Dante can't block bullets like Seph can, when he has.

I'm sorry for making that impression, I'm merely ment that having the gun wouldn't affact the fight.

Dante has show he can block bullets with his sword, it's a porven fact. Sorry for the misunderstanding ^^

Terryc250
Only way Dante would stand a chance is with QS, without it, KH Sephiroth wins, teleporting around with a 6 foot sword that is as light as a feather is a b*tch

EvilAngel
Just to clarify, this is KH1 Seph or KH2?

Violent2Dope
Actually...when has KH Seph blocked a bullet?

EvilAngel
It's based on a character who can, thus one assumes, he can.

Though your are right in thinking if that character has never block a bullet before, it's illogical to assume he can now. The point is he has all the skills from FFVII (not AC, KH was before it)

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by EvilAngel
It's based on a character who can, thus one assumes, he can.

Though your are right in thinking if that character has never block a bullet before, it's illogical to assume he can now. The point is he has all the skills from FFVII (not AC, KH was before it) KH isn't canon...

EvilAngel
then it's Dante vs nobody, because KH Seph isn't cannon

ThoraxeRMG
Sephiroth removes Dante's head.

Violent2Dope
No he doesn't.

ThoraxeRMG
You're right, he cuts him in half.

Violent2Dope
No he doesn't.

ThoraxeRMG
*Claps hands* Yeah, he mutilates him!

Wandering Flame
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
KH isn't canon... And you claim you're a KH fan? haermm

If KH isn't canon it might as well be a fanfiction.

And just so Evil Angel knows, KH Sephiroth and FFVII Sephiroth are different incarnations, as much as POTC Jack Sparrow and KH Jack Sparrow are.

Blax_Hydralisk
KH si canon in it's own right but the events and feats in it can't really be applied to the non-original characters unless you're using a specifically KH incarnation.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Wandering Flame
And you claim you're a KH fan? haermm

If KH isn't canon it might as well be a fanfiction.

And just so Evil Angel knows, KH Sephiroth and FFVII Sephiroth are different incarnations, as much as POTC Jack Sparrow and KH Jack Sparrow are. Exactly, he was claiming he could block bullets, when their is no proof on that. 313

Burning thought
lawls at Sephiroth having a chance, sephiroth will fall nearly as quickly as when hes fighting kain

Violent2Dope
Dante for Skyfather. 313

Charlotte DeBel
Really, good joke. Dante for low herald (though he's somewhere inbetween of low herald and mid herald at his prime).
Sephiroth is a bit overrated and gets his ass kicked 7\10 (if everything barring Quicksilver is fair game for our whitehaired halfdemonic beauty).

Terryc250
Dante is low herald at best.

Wandering Flame
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
KH si canon in it's own right but the events and feats in it can't really be applied to the non-original characters unless you're using a specifically KH incarnation. Thank you, sir.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Dante is low herald at best.


pff what feats does he have comparable to a low herald

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Really, good joke. Dante for low herald (though he's somewhere inbetween of low herald and mid herald at his prime).
Sephiroth is a bit overrated and gets his ass kicked 7\10 (if everything barring Quicksilver is fair game for our whitehaired halfdemonic beauty). Weren't you the one who claimed him Skyfather?

Terryc250
IMHO dante shouldnt be considered a "herald" at all, dont u need powers that rival that of the cosmic power to be considered herald level? Silver Surfer is considered high herald, and he can travel at millions of lightspeed per second, cross galaxys instantly, survive blackholes, blow up planets instantly, create super novas, create life out of no where, vast cosmic awareness, re-arrange matter at will, if SS is high herald, dante should be high street leveler or somethin

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
IMHO dante shouldnt be considered a "herald" at all, dont u need powers that rival that of the cosmic power to be considered herald level? Silver Surfer is considered high herald, and he can travel at millions of lightspeed per second, cross galaxys instantly, survive blackholes, blow up planets instantly, create super novas, create life out of no where, vast cosmic awareness, re-arrange matter at will, if SS is high herald, dante should be high street leveler or somethin

i agree, BUT Dante has a lot of fans stick out tongue which pretty much overrules everything from what i see in Comicbook VS

SS is insane, hell although hes so much weaker than Galactus he can certainly do enough to be considered incredible

Terryc250
yeah SS is one of toughest characters thats below skyfather.. actually i think Thanos is, but SS is up there too

grey fox
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Exactly, he was claiming he could block bullets, when their is no proof on that. 313

How so ?

While Sephiroth has never actually blocked any bullets, his speed is comparable to them , as are Kh-clouds blows.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
yeah SS is one of toughest characters thats below skyfather.. actually i think Thanos is, but SS is up there too SS would get demolished by a Skyfather level being, he gets demolished by Transcendants as well.

Burning thought
nah, what can they do in comparison to all these powers, they can prob beat him, but comparing their powers variety and usefulness their simply pointless beings

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
nah, what can they do in comparison to all these powers, they can prob beat him, but comparing their powers variety and usefulness their simply pointless beings What?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
What?
basically, what skyfathers have AS many diffrent powers as SS, even if they can beat him which is pointless anyway, their powers ive not seen are varied as Surfer, he can do all sorts of incredible things, you dont need much more than what Surfer has

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
basically, what skyfathers have AS many diffrent powers as SS, even if they can beat him which is pointless anyway, their powers ive not seen are varied as Surfer, he can do all sorts of incredible things, you dont need much more than what Surfer has That's not really true. Skyfathers often have what SS has and are better using them. SS has so many powers cause he is basically a much weaker Galactus...kinda.

EvilAngel
Silver Surfer would own a million Sephiroth's & Dante's.... how did he even get invloved in this? stick out tongue

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
That's not really true. Skyfathers often have what SS has and are better using them. SS has so many powers cause he is basically a much weaker Galactus...kinda.

oh rly? ive never heard anything more from skyfathers than ridiculosu and common in marvelverse destruction feats. But he has tonnes of cool powers

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Silver Surfer would own a million Sephiroth's & Dante's.... how did he even get invloved in this? stick out tongue

yep, just before getting his ass owned by Kain, ultimate pwnage

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Burning thought
yep, just before getting his ass owned by Kain, ultimate pwnage


.....ummm.... no

SS turns all the seph & dantes into SS's then 2 millino + 1 SS all get one hit by kain no expression it's the tooth

Burning thought
Originally posted by EvilAngel
.....ummm.... no

SS turns all the seph & dantes into SS's then 2 millino + 1 SS all get one hit by kain no expression it's the tooth

dammit you thnk your so clever sad

313

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
oh rly? ive never heard anything more from skyfathers than ridiculosu and common in marvelverse destruction feats. But he has tonnes of cool powers



yep, just before getting his ass owned by Kain, ultimate pwnage 1. Well, Odin is about SS speed, all Skyfathers have matter manip, and other stuffs, it depends on the Skyfather really. Like Pyron is a Skyfather with overwhelming power, strength, speed, and has many ways to utilize simple powers like fire manip or shapeshifting, Darkseid on the other hand is a Skyfather with good strength, speed, and durability, is a genius, and has Omega Powers, which can allow him to do things like delete beings.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Well, Odin is about SS speed, all Skyfathers have matter manip, and other stuffs, it depends on the Skyfather really. Like Pyron is a Skyfather with overwhelming power, strength, speed, and has many ways to utilize simple powers like fire manip or shapeshifting, Darkseid on the other hand is a Skyfather with good strength, speed, and durability, is a genius, and has Omega Powers, which can allow him to do things like delete beings.

Pyron can only create matter not manipulate it, not like a TRUE skyfather can.....
also simply having matter manip isnt exactley good enough for Skyfather status..

1. deleting beings rules

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Burning thought
dammit you think your so clever sad

313

I know, my secret is i'm so stupid people THINK i'm clever, MUAHAHAHA

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
Pyron can only create matter not manipulate it, not like a TRUE skyfather can.....
also simply having matter manip isnt exactley good enough for Skyfather status..

1. deleting beings rules He has manipped matter tho, when he separated Bishamon and the Makai armor and sword that were possessing his body and soul. Pyron has things other Skyfathers do not. Also, creating matter>Manipping it.

Yep. It can be survived tho, weird, Superman and Doomsday could survive it, Supes was still badly injured, but DD was fine, as DD is uberzor.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
He has manipped matter tho, when he separated Bishamon and the Makai armor and sword that were possessing his body and soul. Pyron has things other Skyfathers do not. Also, creating matter>Manipping it.

Yep. It can be survived tho, weird, Superman and Doomsday could survive it, Supes was still badly injured, but DD was fine, as DD is uberzor.

hm, i still have not been shown proof, ive read sources that said all he does is somehow take the curse from the two and they were seperated. A lot of cahracters have things skyfathers do not. False, creating matter can be as simple as a fireball, creating matter is as simple as regenerting loss flesh since your creating flesh again...Manipulating it is far far more impressive, like changing genetic constructs and such.

most things in comics can be survived, there not that power, they are created by a guy with a pen/pencil onto the page wheras game charcters have tonnes of super computer technology behind them!!

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
hm, i still have not been shown proof, ive read sources that said all he does is somehow take the curse from the two and they were seperated. A lot of cahracters have things skyfathers do not. False, creating matter can be as simple as a fireball, creating matter is as simple as regenerting loss flesh since your creating flesh again...Manipulating it is far far more impressive, like changing genetic constructs and such.

most things in comics can be survived, there not that power, they are created by a guy with a pen/pencil onto the page wheras game charcters have tonnes of super computer technology behind them!! 1. It says he easily separated them with his vast energies or some shite, that would require matter manip. Remove the curse? Pyron has magic now? Lol. Alot of characters do, but Pyron has feats that are better than some Skyfathers(not Odin tho, he's called the strongest Skyfather for a reason). Creating a fireball? Manipulating the heat from your body or the air. Regenerating flesh? Multiplying the cells that make up your body to replace the lost ones. Pyron CREATED matter from NOTHING.

2. Yeah, I guess if you have good enough durability you can survive it, tho some things in comics are PIS, like Supes deflecting the Omega Beams with Heat Vision....wtf?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. It says he easily separated them with his vast energies or some shite, that would require matter manip. Remove the curse? Pyron has magic now? Lol. Alot of characters do, but Pyron has feats that are better than some Skyfathers(not Odin tho, he's called the strongest Skyfather for a reason). Creating a fireball? Manipulating the heat from your body or the air. Regenerating flesh? Multiplying the cells that make up your body to replace the lost ones. Pyron CREATED matter from NOTHING.

2. Yeah, I guess if you have good enough durability you can survive it, tho some things in comics are PIS, like Supes deflecting the Omega Beams with Heat Vision....wtf?

1. From nothing? also who are you to claim thats how a fireball is made, in what universe chuck?

please prove its from nothing, it could just as likely be made from his own energies so unless you have proof their both assumtions and so you cannot claim it as matter creation beyond the average fireball in base value.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. From nothing? also who are you to claim thats how a fireball is made, in what universe chuck?

please prove its from nothing, it could just as likely be made from his own energies so unless you have proof their both assumtions and so you cannot claim it as matter creation beyond the average fireball in base value. 1. In most verses actually. It depends, and you know their is a difference between making a fireball and making an advanced army of intelligent robots to do your bidding, and serve a purpose for you.

How can you make matter from non-matter?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. In most verses actually. It depends, and you know their is a difference between making a fireball and making an advanced army of intelligent robots to do your bidding, and serve a purpose for you.

How can you make matter from non-matter?

erm yeh theres a differnt overall, but not in the base value of matter creation.

the same reason you seem to think you can make fire out of air....what about lighting, beams of energy? especially in space, you can make things from energy.

what about Darkmatter? the stuff its called that makes up space itself, my assumptions are as good as yours, you seem to think he makes it out of thin air.....especially since the things glow a blue energy haze, its likely their made from his very energy itself...

also what do you mean how can you make matter from non-matter...prob just as impossible as going faster than the speed of light without going back in time, or being the size pyron is as a living being with conciousnesness..but it happens.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
erm yeh theres a differnt overall, but not in the base value of matter creation.

the same reason you seem to think you can make fire out of air....what about lighting, beams of energy? especially in space, you can make things from energy.

what about Darkmatter? the stuff its called that makes up space itself, my assumptions are as good as yours, you seem to think he makes it out of thin air.....especially since the things glow a blue energy haze, its likely their made from his very energy itself...

also what do you mean how can you make matter from non-matter...prob just as impossible as going faster than the speed of light without going back in time, or being the size pyron is as a living being with conciousnesness..but it happens. 1. True I suppose.

2. Lightning is essentially a form of fire. Beams of energy? Depends. DBZ characters make it by projecting their Ki, which is their personal spirit energy, then beings like Ironman do it with power stored in his suit.

3. I hope you realise that is a form of matter manipulation. Manipulating pure energy to matter is manip of the highest order.

4. True, Pyron's FTL case can be that since he lacks a physical body, some physical rules don't apply to him, the various Supermen do it by manipping the gravity around them, Flash does it by using the Speedforce. As for Pyron's existence, he has achieved the state that is meant to represent the "perfect evolution", an existence beyond your physical body, Einstein believed in this as well I believe.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. True I suppose.

2. Lightning is essentially a form of fire. Beams of energy? Depends. DBZ characters make it by projecting their Ki, which is their personal spirit energy, then beings like Ironman do it with power stored in his suit.

3. I hope you realise that is a form of matter manipulation. Manipulating pure energy to matter is manip of the highest order.

4. True, Pyron's FTL case can be that since he lacks a physical body, some physical rules don't apply to him, the various Supermen do it by manipping the gravity around them, Flash does it by using the Speedforce. As for Pyron's existence, he has achieved the state that is meant to represent the "perfect evolution", an existence beyond your physical body, Einstein believed in this as well I believe.

1. ofc, ime never wrong young lad

2. Lighting is fire..wtf.....who told you that mr rogers?

3. erm i hope you realise energy is not even technically matter, so its energy manip, not matter....that would be more like Transmution on an energy to matter level...but all he does is make those robots, its not like he has a vast variety of powers he can do with this

4. "shrug" their impossibilties, manip gravity around you but its accepted isnt it

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. ofc, ime never wrong young lad

2. Lighting is fire..wtf.....who told you that mr rogers?

3. erm i hope you realise energy is not even technically matter, so its energy manip, not matter....that would be more like Transmution on an energy to matter level...but all he does is make those robots, its not like he has a vast variety of powers he can do with this

4. "shrug" their impossibilties, manip gravity around you but its accepted isnt it 1. Yes you are.

2. It pretty much is.

3. Dur. He manipped energy to matter, and now that I think of it, when absorbing things he manips matter to energy...he can manip matter.

4. Kain forming into bats is an impossibility too, but hey, that's life.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Well, Odin is about SS speed, all Skyfathers have matter manip, and other stuffs, it depends on the Skyfather really. Like Pyron is a Skyfather with overwhelming power, strength, speed, and has many ways to utilize simple powers like fire manip or shapeshifting, Darkseid on the other hand is a Skyfather with good strength, speed, and durability, is a genius, and has Omega Powers, which can allow him to do things like delete beings.

Darkseid is NOT a skyfather level, id even rate darkseid under thanos, especially how often he gets his ass kicked by supes, batman even made him bleed,

Odin is >>>> SS by far, when they faught, when Odin faught SS and Thanos, he took SS's cosmic beam, and didnt even notice it, then he one shotted Silver Surfer,

Odin is a real skyfather level, he has vast magic, matter matipulation, has the power to even bring people back from the dead, transport entire populations to different dimensions, a weakened odin moved asgard from its time & place in reality, turned a regular mortal woman into a goddess, even easily CREATES planets, stars, and entire galaxys, a being who can rival powers like this can only be called a skyfather.

taking on both SS and thanos, easily
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4431/odin1jt4.th.jpg

SS starts to annoy him, then gets one shotted.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7243/warlockandtheinfinitywazp5.th.jpg

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Darkseid is NOT a skyfather level, id even rate darkseid under thanos, especially how often he gets his ass kicked by supes, batman made him bleed,

Odin is >>>> SS by far, when they faught, when Odin faught SS and Thanos, he took SS's cosmic beam, and didnt even notice it, then he one shotted Silver Surfer,

Odin is a real skyfather level, he has vast magic, matter matipulation, has the power to even bring people back from the dead, transport entire populations to different dimensions, a weakened odin moved asgard from its time & place in reality, turned a regular mortal woman into a goddess, even easily CREATES planets, stars, and entire galaxys, a being who can rival powers like this can only be called a skyfather.

taking on both SS and thanos, easily
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4431/odin1jt4.th.jpg

SS starts to annoy him, then gets one shotted.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7243/warlockandtheinfinitywazp5.th.jpg Odin is the STRONGEST Skyfather. Darkseid is a Skyfather, don't even bring up that Batman made him bleed shit, it was PIS bullshit from a comic known for shit like that. Darkseid in a recent issue I think easily beat Superman.

Terryc250
^ no Darkseid didnt, Darkseid hasnt beat superman in aloooong time..

a real skyfather would beat superman with a gesture, all skyfathers rivals odin in power..

think about it.. silver surfer would pwn Superman with his vast powers, thanos beat the silver surfer to death, odin(skyfather) one shotted silver surfer, and beat up thanos, yet darkseid(proclaimed "skyfather"wink who gets his ass beat by the likes of Superman on a regular basis without being weakened or anything, and even humans sometimes, should not have the right to be called a skyfather unless its for humour purposes.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
^ no Darkseid didnt, Darkseid hasnt beat superman in aloooong time..

a real skyfather would beat superman with a gesture, all skyfathers rivals odin in power..

think about it.. silver surfer would pwn Superman with his vast powers, thanos beat the silver surfer to death, odin(skyfather) one shotted silver surfer, and beat up thanos, yet darkseid(proclaimed "skyfather"wink who gets his ass beat by the likes of Superman on a regular basis without being weakened or anything, and even humans sometimes, should not have the right to be called a skyfather unless its for humour purposes. Darkseid is weaker than usual, after coming from the Source Wall I think. Few Skyfathers can rival Odin.

Terryc250
Zeus is about as tough as odin, when all skyfathers went up against the celestials they all did about equally bad against them, all skyfathers rival odin as much all heralds rival SS

Darkseid at best i would give him the same status as Thanos in the marvel universe which is inbetween high herald and low skyfather, only because they have the same kind of mindset, i still have yet to see darkseid rival thanos in terms of power though, because i dont see darkseid even being able to beat silver surfer.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Zeus is about as tough as odin, when all skyfathers went up against the celestials they all did about equally bad against them, all skyfathers rival odin as much all heralds rival SS No, Zeus has been stated to be Odin's equal, that is it, and it doesn't matter if its a Skyfather or a Street Leveller, they would still do pitifully against the Celestials. Not every Herald rivals SS, there are three kinds of Heralds, Low, Middle, and High, Skyfathers don't have any separate categories, it is just Skyfather.

Violent2Dope
DS had just been blasted by Highfather's staff. DS has beaten batman while Batman was being amped by a mother box and a battle suit.

Here is his respect thread also.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t366402.html

Terryc250
Yes but even low heralds would put up a fight against SS, like terrax, nova, or morg..

Thanos took several blasts from Odin and lived to tell about it, yet Thanos is still not considered a skyfather level

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Yes but even low heralds would put up a fight against SS, like terrax, nova, or morg..

Thanos took several blasts from Odin and lived to tell about it, yet Thanos is still not considered a skyfather level 1. Not really...Didn't SS pwn Terrax?

2. Because he lacks matter manipulation. It is literally a requirement for Skyfather.

Terryc250
Thanos has matter manipulation at a higher scale then SS, Surfer beat terrax but didnt pwn him

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Thanos has matter manipulation at a higher scale then SS, Surfer beat terrax but didnt pwn him I thought he didn't have it, but could alter his own structure? I don't know or care much for Thanos tbh, but if this is true, he should be Skyfather.

Terryc250
not quite at that level, he loses to any skyfather in combat

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
not quite at that level, he loses to any skyfather in combat What about Darkseid?

Terryc250
Darkseid at best is Thanos level IMO, but he hasnt been like that for awhile, hes been mostly about superman level lately =\

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Darkseid at best is Thanos level IMO, but he hasnt been like that for awhile, hes been mostly about superman level lately =\ No, he is Skyfather IMO. Has been for awhile, tho that Superman and Batman comic did raise some eyebrows, it is pure PIS tho.

Terryc250
He has been losing to superman all the time though, since he first came out.. a real skyfather wouldnt even bother with superman and would smite him effortlessly if he even caused a bother to him.. anyone comparable to superman isnt skyfather level because superman isnt even close to skyfather

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
He has been losing to superman all the time though, since he first came out.. a real skyfather wouldnt even bother with superman and would smite him effortlessly if he even caused a bother to him.. anyone comparable to superman isnt skyfather level because superman isnt even close to skyfather Physically he is comparable to Superman, that is all Supes rivals him in. Supes is High Herald.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Yes you are.

2. It pretty much is.

3. Dur. He manipped energy to matter, and now that I think of it, when absorbing things he manips matter to energy...he can manip matter.

4. Kain forming into bats is an impossibility too, but hey, that's life.

1. NEVEEOORR!!


2. erm...no....lighting is not fire

3. no he formed energy into matter, when absorbing things he is simply doing what molten steel does to steel, moltenises it to make more molten steel, its not like he is willing it with power to manipulate, matter manip means changing what the matter of a being is, otherwise Kain can be skyfather, he can also turn energy into matter

4. yes, i was making examples of impossible things that strangely happen, i was mocking you because you said "how could you make matter out of non-matter"



also can someone post me where it says you need to have matter manip to be skyfather please, infact the list of things you need to be rated that highly, or is it something random comic book vs have conjured up out of thin air

Terryc250
Real Skyfathers can take out entire galaxies effortlessly

Burning thought
when has one done this?

people say Odin did, yet examples are shown when he was helped by someone else or useing a special object, do they have nothing but destructive feats....

but seriously who did this?

also what are you calling a skyfather, only the top parthanon beings are Skyfathers, Zeus, Odin.etc etc

Ares or normal Thor are not

Terryc250
^ obviously thor isnt lol, not even close.. Thor would get KO'd with a finger by a skyfather..


Odin has CREATED an entire galaxy with ease, when he fought Seth he destroyed multiple galaxies in the battle, it was also a weakened Odin

Odin has beaten Surtur multiple times and Surtur has destroyed countless galaxies

Destroying galaxies takes little effort for Odin or any real skyfather

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Real Skyfathers can take out entire galaxies effortlessly Not all. That is an Odin feat. Not every Skyfather is Odin. Darkseid is a Skyfather, but cannot take out a galaxy.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. NEVEEOORR!!


2. erm...no....lighting is not fire

3. no he formed energy into matter, when absorbing things he is simply doing what molten steel does to steel, moltenises it to make more molten steel, its not like he is willing it with power to manipulate, matter manip means changing what the matter of a being is, otherwise Kain can be skyfather, he can also turn energy into matter

4. yes, i was making examples of impossible things that strangely happen, i was mocking you because you said "how could you make matter out of non-matter"



also can someone post me where it says you need to have matter manip to be skyfather please, infact the list of things you need to be rated that highly, or is it something random comic book vs have conjured up out of thin air 1. FOREVEOR!!!!!!

2. I said PRETTY MUCH.

3. He also manipped Bishamon from his armor with just his energies(he's that powerful LAWLZ). Also, molten steel is still MATTER, Pyron can convert energy to matter(or maybe create it from nothing, who can say?), and vice versa, big difference. Kain gets mid to high herald due to his nifty abilities, but not Skyfather. He lacks the physical stats, now, say, if he had the physical prowess of say, Superman, Thor, or maybe even Flash, he could possibly be Skyfather.

4. Yeah.

I'm not sure where the tier system came from actually...

Terryc250
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Not all. That is an Odin feat. Not every Skyfather is Odin. Darkseid is a Skyfather, but cannot take out a galaxy.

Thats cuz Darkseid isnt a Skyfather, he has had a couple high showings that are skyfather level, but 95% of the time he is only high herald level, and alot of the times hes even below that.

All skyfathers are comparable to Odin in terms of power.. Surtur and others were able to do it, and they arent even the strongest skyfathers, Odin is just the one that is more recognized because he is in more comics.

You're underrating the status "Skyfather" physically EVERY skyfather is MUCH higher then thor, superman, silver surfer, etc.. power wise EVERY skyfather is higher then Silver Surfer, and would take him out in about 5 seconds or less.

Darkseid has trouble with SUPERMAN, Superman is even below Silver Surfer, he cannot be compared to true skyfathers like Elders of the Universe, Silent Ones, Hyperstorm, etc

Kain, Pyron, nor DS(without ALE), can be a skyfather because they lack the power output, durability, etc.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Thats cuz Darkseid isnt a Skyfather, he has had a couple high showings that are skyfather level, but 95% of the time he is only high herald level, and alot of the times hes even below that.

All skyfathers are comparable to Odin in terms of power.. Surtur and others were able to do it, and they arent even the strongest skyfathers, Odin is just the one that is more recognized because he is in more comics.

You're underrating the status "Skyfather" physically EVERY skyfather is MUCH higher then thor, superman, silver surfer, etc.. power wise EVERY skyfather is higher then Silver Surfer, and would take him out in about 5 seconds or less.

Darkseid has trouble with SUPERMAN, Superman is even below Silver Surfer, he cannot be compared to true skyfathers like Elders of the Universe, Silent Ones, Hyperstorm, etc

Kain, Pyron, nor DS(without ALE), can be a skyfather because they lack the power output, durability, etc. 1. Lol, he is a Skyfather, just is sometimes shittiliy written. Also, often it is merely a weaker aspect of DS that is beaten.

2. Odin is widely considered to be THE strongest of Skyfathers.

3. Funny thing is, without amping his power, Odin is only class 60. Also, Pyron is physically higher than Superman, Thor, and Silver Surfur. Power wise, Pyron also higher than SS. He could destroy Earth with the tip of his pinky.

4. The aspect of DS does, sure.

5. Kain is no Skyfather. Pyron and DS are. You think every Skyfather has to be Odin.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Lol, he is a Skyfather, just is sometimes shittiliy written. Also, often it is merely a weaker aspect of DS that is beaten.

2. Odin is widely considered to be THE strongest of Skyfathers.

3. Funny thing is, without amping his power, Odin is only class 60. Also, Pyron is physically higher than Superman, Thor, and Silver Surfur. Power wise, Pyron also higher than SS. He could destroy Earth with the tip of his pinky.

4. The aspect of DS does, sure.

5. Kain is no Skyfather. Pyron and DS are. You think every Skyfather has to be Odin.

Writers make him a nemesis foe of Superman because they are comparable. PIS only goes so far, like usually winning but losing in one comic due to PIS, can be considered yeah, but if the character has always been losing alot more times then they win against about a mid/high herald opponent.. and even loses to lower character, then maybe its just the level the character is at.

Why you think skyfathers are rarely ever in Marvel Earth comics? Or even bother with their affairs, because at best a person at herald level would only last a panel, or 2 if lucky.

Pyron has never shown that much power before, and im sure u cant show me either, SS, Supes, Gladiator, Sentry, have destroyed planets easily as well..

No i think all skyfathers r comparable to Odin which they are... like the Panthens, Zeus, Cleito, Osrius, Manito, Anu, Hyperstorm, Ego, Dormammu, Seth, Surtur, The Absolutes, etc. They all would/have put up great fights, and some have beaten Odin. Ive never heard of Odin being the most powerful skyfather and IMO i dont think he is, but ive heard he is a high skyfather

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Writers make him a nemesis foe of Superman because they are comparable. PIS only goes so far, like usually winning but losing in one comic due to PIS, can be considered yeah, but if the character has always been losing alot more times then they win against about a mid/high herald opponent.. and even loses to lower character, then maybe its just the level the character is at.

Why you think skyfathers are rarely ever in Marvel Earth comics? Or even bother with their affairs, because at best a person at herald level would only last a panel, or 2 if lucky.

Pyron has never shown that much power before, and im sure u cant show me either, SS, Supes, Gladiator, Sentry, have destroyed planets easily as well..

No i think all skyfathers r comparable to Odin which they are... like the Panthens, Zeus, Cleito, Osrius, Manito, Anu, Hyperstorm, Ego, Dormammu, Seth, Surtur, The Absolutes, etc. They all would/have put up great fights, and some have beaten Odin. 1. What part of weaker aspect didn't you get? He has literally beaten Supes without lifting a finger.

2. Not all are Odin tho.

3. His pinky tip is bigger than Earth, I meant that literally. Also, he can fly many times FTL, create things from nothing(or from himself, not sure), manip matter(a Skyfather requirement), even in his mortal form(self weakened form) he has extremely high physical strength, and has traveled the universe eating galaxies worth of planets(not in one gulp). That's a few things, there are more. When I said Pyron can destroy a planet with his pinky tip, I meant it literally. And don't say "He's never done it so he can't", Sephiroth has never destroyed a planet either, yet you like to claim he can(which I think he could do, don't get me wrong). Saying Pyron can't crush Earth with his pinky is the equivelant of saying Superman can't crush a marbel.

4. First of all, didn't Hyperstorm beat Big G? That would put him some ways above Skyfather. Odin is the strongest for a reason, he has shown the most impressive powers.

Terryc250
To my knowledge DS has never beaten supes like that without some kind of tech or artifact help, Superman has always put up a fight

I never said everyone is odin, i said "skyfathers"

What i meant was, you make it seem like Pyron can instantly grow as big as the sun then crush anything he wants, i believe he can crush a planet with if he manages to grow that big, but i dont think he can just instantly grow that big and fly around crushing planets.

No Hyperstorm got lost to Galactus, and got locked up while Big G used him as a power source.

Hyperstorm can possibly beat Odin, Surtur has beaten Odin, Dormammu would beat Odin i think, Demiurge probably can, a couple of the Elder Gods can too,
he has shown the most impressive feats because hes been in marvel comics for many decades, and has been in many many many comics, since Thor had his own comic

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope

3. He also manipped Bishamon from his armor with just his energies(he's that powerful LAWLZ). Also, molten steel is still MATTER, Pyron can convert energy to matter(or maybe create it from nothing, who can say?), and vice versa, big difference. Kain gets mid to high herald due to his nifty abilities, but not Skyfather. He lacks the physical stats, now, say, if he had the physical prowess of say, Superman, Thor, or maybe even Flash, he could possibly be Skyfather.


since when is physical needed for skyfather, Galactus could destroy all skyfathers without trying and he wouldnt use physical prowess at all, some beings are abstracts and dont have physical forms at all, does that mean they cannot be skyfather level? that logic is broken

Originally posted by Terryc250
Kain, Pyron, nor DS(without ALE), can be a skyfather because they lack the power output, durability, etc.

pyron lacks durability and power output of a skyfather


but Kain has the durability easily, he cannot even die and can put a shield up making his durability almost infnite.....Technically without any amping a skyfathers body is only a measly 3 times the density of humans.....

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
5. Kain is no Skyfather. Pyron and DS are. You think every Skyfather has to be Odin.

lawls at pyron being a Skyfather, he has nothing on a skyfather, does he actually have any physical feats worthy to notice? or are you simply saying "hes big, he is strong enough"

Originally posted by Terryc250
What i meant was, you make it seem like Pyron can instantly grow as big as the sun then crush anything he wants, i believe he can crush a planet with if he manages to grow that big, but i dont think he can just instantly grow that big and fly around crushing planets.


but he is super uberz pyronz!! he could turn the universe into goo with his mega >>>>lightspeez!! and grow to Andromeda sizeee!!! durlaugh

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
since when is physical needed for skyfather, Galactus could destroy all skyfathers without trying and he wouldnt use physical prowess at all, some beings are abstracts and dont have physical forms at all, does that mean they cannot be skyfather level? that logic is broken



pyron lacks durability and power output of a skyfather


but Kain has the durability easily, he cannot even die and can put a shield up making his durability almost infnite.....Technically without any amping a skyfathers body is only a measly 3 times the density of humans.....



lawls at pyron being a Skyfather, he has nothing on a skyfather, does he actually have any physical feats worthy to notice? or are you simply saying "hes big, he is strong enough"



but he is super uberz pyronz!! he could turn the universe into goo with his mega >>>>lightspeez!! and grow to Andromeda sizeee!!! durlaugh 1. No, it really isn't. For all of Kain's abilities, if a character is fast enough or can move fast enough to beat him before he does anything, he would have no chance. That's why Superman would easily beat him.

2. Lol. Pyron could crush Earth with his pinky tip, I hardly see how that makes him lack the power output of one. Hell, most attacks won't even injure Pyron in the slightest, the only real exception is magic, and he can still defend against that.

That's not durability. Doomsday cannot die either, and can barely be hurt by anything(not even the Omega Beams from Darkseid) and his shield is infinate? You fail to mention it only lasts like a minute, whereas Pyron's shield can be summoned at will.

I still lol at being only 3 times more durable than humans. Thor, much weaker than Odin, tanked a nuke for Christ's sake.

3. As mortal Pyron(who is uber weak compared to full power Pyron) he still retained great physical strength, he shreds thru durable Phobos with ease, and tears steel buildings apart, at full power he is logically much stronger, and can grow much bigger(sun sized), logically, he could crush a planet easily.

4. He is>>>lightspeed jack. I haven't claimed the Andromeda thing in months ass hole, but if you wanna play that game, you said Kain can one shot the Living Tribunal.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
To my knowledge DS has never beaten supes like that without some kind of tech or artifact help, Superman has always put up a fight

I never said everyone is odin, i said "skyfathers"

What i meant was, you make it seem like Pyron can instantly grow as big as the sun then crush anything he wants, i believe he can crush a planet with if he manages to grow that big, but i dont think he can just instantly grow that big and fly around crushing planets.

No Hyperstorm got lost to Galactus, and got locked up while Big G used him as a power source.

Hyperstorm can possibly beat Odin, Surtur has beaten Odin, Dormammu would beat Odin i think, Demiurge probably can, a couple of the Elder Gods can too,
he has shown the most impressive feats because hes been in marvel comics for many decades, and has been in many many many comics, since Thor had his own comic 1. Against an aspect, and the time DS beat Supes without lifting a finger he was at full power and needed no tech.

2. But you act like EVERY Skyfather has to be exactly like Odin. The only rock solid requirement for Skyfather is matter manipulation.

3. He can grow that big pretty fast actually. Why can't he grow that big? How long do you think it would take him?

4. He still put up a fight, whereas Odin would just be a mere nuisance to Big G, as would any Skyfather I know of.

5. Makes sense, I personally do not completely buy into Odin being the strongest Skyfather, but he is one of them.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. No, it really isn't. For all of Kain's abilities, if a character is fast enough or can move fast enough to beat him before he does anything, he would have no chance. That's why Superman would easily beat him.

2. Lol. Pyron could crush Earth with his pinky tip, I hardly see how that makes him lack the power output of one. Hell, most attacks won't even injure Pyron in the slightest, the only real exception is magic, and he can still defend against that.

That's not durability. Doomsday cannot die either, and can barely be hurt by anything(not even the Omega Beams from Darkseid) and his shield is infinate? You fail to mention it only lasts like a minute, whereas Pyron's shield can be summoned at will.

I still lol at being only 3 times more durable than humans. Thor, much weaker than Odin, tanked a nuke for Christ's sake.

3. As mortal Pyron(who is uber weak compared to full power Pyron) he still retained great physical strength, he shreds thru durable Phobos with ease, and tears steel buildings apart, at full power he is logically much stronger, and can grow much bigger(sun sized), logically, he could crush a planet easily.

4. He is>>>lightspeed jack. I haven't claimed the Andromeda thing in months ass hole, but if you wanna play that game, you said Kain can one shot the Living Tribunal.

1. no because being fast enough means nothing if with a gesture that person can rip out your soul, or maybe with less than a gesture, a hand movement.....even if that person can go so much faster and do 1000 moves before kain....it wont make a diffrent because kain will just reform if he is obliterated and will always have time to eventually cast his one spell or one gesture to stop the opponent....TK would grab Superman and Time bolt will do the rest....the same with most skyfathers

2. thats simpy because of size, not power output, he isnt really useing any power at all, he is just using size, its not unique, if kain was that size he would od the same, its a size thing, but strength within a body like Kratos for example is true strength. Bigger does not always mean stronger nor does it mean he could neccerily easy break a planet, it also depends on what type of planet. Not all planets are Earth type.

3. erm...so can kain bring his shield up on a whim, also it wont last 1 minute will it, Kain will just bring it up again...and again....posibly 5 seconds before the last shield wears out....

4. well that could possibly be amping, its stated thats their durability, so their not quite as incredible as people think skyfathers are in base durability

5. ive heard so many diffrent silly things from you, youve stated before now that being small does not mean anything for pyron and have said it doesnt weaken him, now your saying he is weak in small form.....also ive not seen any durability feats of phobos, Hulk can smash tanks up which are also metal, that does not mean he is skyfather, ive not seen durability of Phobos, ive only seen them getting ripped to pieces.

6. lawls at you throwing a hissy fit, i was joking......and his lightspeed ahs only been shown in straight lines when he moves great distances and in a foetle position, also LT would be Kains little douche if he came into Nosgoth, if the Time stream didnt delete him first ofc, but apprently LT is beyond time so i dont think this would happen

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. no because being fast enough means nothing if with a gesture that person can rip out your soul, or maybe with less than a gesture, a hand movement.....even if that person can go so much faster and do 1000 moves before kain....it wont make a diffrent because kain will just reform if he is obliterated and will always have time to eventually cast his one spell or one gesture to stop the opponent....TK would grab Superman and Time bolt will do the rest....the same with most skyfathers

2. thats simpy because of size, not power output, he isnt really useing any power at all, he is just using size, its not unique, if kain was that size he would od the same, its a size thing, but strength within a body like Kratos for example is true strength. Bigger does not always mean stronger nor does it mean he could neccerily easy break a planet, it also depends on what type of planet. Not all planets are Earth type.

3. erm...so can kain bring his shield up on a whim, also it wont last 1 minute will it, Kain will just bring it up again...and again....posibly 5 seconds before the last shield wears out....

4. well that could possibly be amping, its stated thats their durability, so their not quite as incredible as people think skyfathers are in base durability

5. ive heard so many diffrent silly things from you, youve stated before now that being small does not mean anything for pyron and have said it doesnt weaken him, now your saying he is weak in small form.....also ive not seen any durability feats of phobos, Hulk can smash tanks up which are also metal, that does not mean he is skyfather, ive not seen durability of Phobos, ive only seen them getting ripped to pieces.

6. lawls at you throwing a hissy fit, i was joking......and his lightspeed ahs only been shown in straight lines when he moves great distances and in a foetle position, also LT would be Kains little douche if he came into Nosgoth, if the Time stream didnt delete him first ofc, but apprently LT is beyond time so i dont think this would happen 1. Not if Superman could throw him to the sun first. I lol at Kain TKing Superman, Superman is easily strong enough to break it, and could just vibrate to shift his molecular structure(or whatever) to go intangible, he has done it before. Also, you keep on mentioning Soul Death, I have yet to see it, show me it.

2. Okay, at that size with an energy blast he could blow up more than a sun, as he is big as a sun. Kain can't go that size, so it is irrevelant. Also, Pyron has shown super strength even in mortal form.

3. Has Kain ever done this? Also, the reaver has to be charged with souls to do any spells in-game, what makes you think he can do his powers without doing that?

4. It stated that was the normal Asgardian's durability, also, Kain doesn't seem to have superhuman durability at all. An arrow would prolly go right thru his head, he just wouldn't die. Also, Kain in the games after being damaged too much has to revert to bats and flee, and that one site you showed also said this, what makes you think he can keep on tanking attacks. Oh, and even if Odin's durability is only 3 times a human's, what the hell makes you think that applies to every Skyfather? It sure as hell doesn't apply to Darkseid.

5. No, he is weak as a MORTAL, he limited himself to a mortal form before fighting the DSers, weakening him greatly. Hulk doesn't get Skyfather because:
A. He lacks variety of powers, his offense is pure physical power and his defense is durability and his healing.
B. He's an idiot.
C. He lacks matter manipulation.
D. He isn't very fast.
E. He's a brick.
F. His only ranged attack is the thunderclap.
G. Even tho potentially he is physically strongest in Marvel, he starts out at class 90 and has to get angrier to get stronger.

Pyron has great strength, and more powers than what Hulk has. They have some durability feats in UDON I believe, but I can't find any scans.

6. Many times faster than lightspeed. smile So he can only go in a straight line? That makes little to no sense. He is a big ball of fire while flying, not in a featle position, he just enters one before morphing to a ball of fire.

LT is beyond time, and would make Nosgoth his b*tch.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Not if Superman could throw him to the sun first. I lol at Kain TKing Superman, Superman is easily strong enough to break it, and could just vibrate to shift his molecular structure(or whatever) to go intangible, he has done it before. Also, you keep on mentioning Soul Death, I have yet to see it, show me it.

2. Okay, at that size with an energy blast he could blow up more than a sun, as he is big as a sun. Kain can't go that size, so it is irrevelant. Also, Pyron has shown super strength even in mortal form.

3. Has Kain ever done this? Also, the reaver has to be charged with souls to do any spells in-game, what makes you think he can do his powers without doing that?

4. It stated that was the normal Asgardian's durability, also, Kain doesn't seem to have superhuman durability at all. An arrow would prolly go right thru his head, he just wouldn't die. Also, Kain in the games after being damaged too much has to revert to bats and flee, and that one site you showed also said this, what makes you think he can keep on tanking attacks. Oh, and even if Odin's durability is only 3 times a human's, what the hell makes you think that applies to every Skyfather? It sure as hell doesn't apply to Darkseid.

5. No, he is weak as a MORTAL, he limited himself to a mortal form before fighting the DSers, weakening him greatly. Hulk doesn't get Skyfather because:
A. He lacks variety of powers, his offense is pure physical power and his defense is durability and his healing.
B. He's an idiot.
C. He lacks matter manipulation.
D. He isn't very fast.
E. He's a brick.
F. His only ranged attack is the thunderclap.
G. Even tho potentially he is physically strongest in Marvel, he starts out at class 90 and has to get angrier to get stronger.

Pyron has great strength, and more powers than what Hulk has. They have some durability feats in UDON I believe, but I can't find any scans.

6. Many times faster than lightspeed. smile So he can only go in a straight line? That makes little to no sense. He is a big ball of fire while flying, not in a featle position, he just enters one before morphing to a ball of fire.

LT is beyond time, and would make Nosgoth his b*tch.


1. I already told you what would happen if he goes in the son, he would simply evovle to become eventually immune to pressures of that magnitue and heat, youll only make kain stronger. Strength is not a factor it seems, TK works on humans, kain and all others in LOK exactley the same, strength is not a factor, if he can go intangible then maybe he would escape this.

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/bo1/spells.php

soul death, i mean Spirit Death, basically the same thing.

2. Proof? your doing the old "size=power" thing again, Kratos is small so hes weak then? no your saying sillyness, show me a strength feat of Pyron, your assuming his actual damage capacity can destroy a sun, AND assuming hes even near the size of a sun, the biggest ive seen him is with Hellstorm the size of his chest, Hellstorm is not the size of the sun.

3. WHat are you talking about ,its a BO1 Kain spell, not a reaver spell, he doesnt recharge anything and ofc hes done it, its in the BO1 game, although i cant find a video, theres no reason other than Bias to make you belive he cannot recast a spell......also canonically only the blood reaver charges, the soul reaver can still have energy in it after cenuturies....

4. Its stated in Blood omen 2 his stats are so much greater than a human, an Arrow would never go through his head, it doesnt even go through his chest and thats a crossbow bolt at short range into young kain in BO 2.....Elder Kain is 100 times more powerful. Bats is not fleeing, he is simply reforming, the only diffrence as you should know is that its in-game, you should think its easy enough without being completly invulerable and reforming where you like. Odin is one of the strongest skyfathers and his base durability is lame which is what i was pointing out...

5. show me pyrons great strength please

6. ive already taken into fact he is beyond time, and the only thing he could do is survive the intitial blinking out of excistence, unfortunatley for him....he would still be Kains B*tch on a leesh since all the rest of Nosgoth is part of time.....LT can do nothing and since Kain cannot be stopped in Nosgoth, LT would simply be ignored like a angry toddler or douched

Raijin
Quick question; how the hell is this related to the topic at hand?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Raijin
Quick question; how the hell is this related to the topic at hand?

it doesnt does it...i think Dante was decided as the winner and for some reason the debate has gone onto skyfathers

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Burning thought
it doesnt does it...i think Dante was decided as the winner and for some reason the debate has gone onto skyfathers
Sephiroth would obliterate Dante. So yeah....

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Sephiroth would obliterate Dante. So yeah.... Not really, matter of fact, no he wouldn't.

Terryc250
Sephiroth > Dante



Does Pyron even have matter manipulation? I know he made robots, but that really isnt matter manipulation, Sephiroth created the silver haired men, and i dont consider him having matter manipulation, changing the molecular scale and element scale is matter manipulation, like turning dirt into gold, or a dog into a fish, or altering someone genes. There was an old xmen comic i read years ago with Zeus i think, and he temporarily turned off a mutants mutant genes, so he was a regular human

Even if Pyron is capable of crushing a planet with his pinky that really isnt a skyfather feat since ive seen many heralds easily create supernovas and blow up many planets, when sentry and genis were fighting, they were blowing up planets left and right, hulk has even one punch a meteor twice the size of earth before.

I was giving feats of other skyfathers as well, just mostly odin cuz hes the most popular, and most shown.

Hyperstorm only lasted a couple pages because of the Plot Device; in reality, he shouldve only lasted a panel.

And btw, Kain wouldnt last against the LT, he would be erased from existence in an instant

White Crown of the Phoenix has held the universe in her palms, and amputated time, and changing fate, there was a story when scott summers chose not to be with emma frost and all these bad things happened, then the Phoenix turned back time and altered his mind to get with emma frost.

LT is above the Phoenix, he is the judge of the Omniverse, that includes every single multiverse, every universe, and every dimension.

LT once turned the silver surfer into a universe so he can experience godhood.

He erased a whole universe with a thought

He would take nosgoth out of existance just as easily

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Burning thought
it doesnt does it...i think Dante was decided as the winner and for some reason the debate has gone onto skyfathers

Reading the first page it seems most people think Sephiorth > Dante

That's when i stopped posting anyway, so what new evidence has some up to make people think Dante could beat Sephiroth

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250

And btw, Kain wouldnt last against the LT, he would be erased from existence in an instant

White Crown of the Phoenix has held the universe in her palms, and amputated time, and changing fate, there was a story when scott summers chose not to be with emma frost and all these bad things happened, then the Phoenix turned back time and altered his mind to get with emma frost.

LT is above the Phoenix, he is the judge of the Omniverse, that includes every single multiverse, every universe, and every dimension.

LT once turned the silver surfer into a universe so he can experience godhood.

He erased a whole universe with a thought

He would take nosgoth out of existance just as easily

i agree if it was just normal kain not in Nosgoth, but in Nosgoth, your basically saying whos stronger, TOAA? or LT? i would certainly say TOAA would you not?

Terryc250
Nothgoth is a part of the Omniverse, its in a different realm/universe/dimension but its still part of the Omniverse, Mephisto is considered as god in his own dimension, whatever happens there is his rule, everything is his property, free to alter, anything he wants in there, if a being is in mephisto's realm, he basically has already lost his soul to mephisto, and mephisto has freedom over that persons soul to do anything he pleases, but he is still under LT, LT can erase that reality from existance if he feels its needed

Kain is basically just a dimension god where he has the power of god in his own dimension. Many characters like that in Marvel universe, dormammu, shuma gorath, satannish, that basically if ur in theyre dimension, ur f*cked because they are god in their dimension, and they are free to do whatever they want to you in there; however, like i said, LT is the judge of the Omniverse, and can take out their dimension as easy as he can take out universes.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Nothgoth is a part of the Omniverse, its in a different realm/universe/dimension but its still part of the Omniverse, Mephisto is considered as god in his own dimension, whatever happens there is his rule, everything is his property, free to alter, anything he wants in there, if a being is in mephisto's realm, he basically has already lost his soul to mephisto, and mephisto has freedom over that persons soul to do anything he pleases, but he is still under LT, LT can erase that reality from existance if he feels its needed

Kain is basically just a dimension god where he has the power of god in his own dimension. Many characters like that in Marvel universe, dormammu, shuma gorath, satannish, that basically if ur in theyre dimension, ur f*cked because they are god in their dimension, and they are free to do whatever they want to you in there; however, like i said, LT is the judge of the Omniverse, and can take out their dimension as easy as he can take out universes.

false your not getting what ime saying, TOAA is not the supreme of Nosgoth and its not part of the Marvel omniverse, not one part of it, theres nothing Living Tribunal can do to the Supreme that is Amy herring or the other designers and creators of the games nor their rules, LT is helpless to do anything in Nosgoth.

yeh. Marvel universes, but he gets his power from TOAA who does not excist in Nosgoth so technically LT becomes a giant yellow man and drops to the ground like a used cloth but ofc according to KMC rules he would still have his own power even if the source of it is gone, which means it would be his power VS a supreme creators rule, which he would never break, especially since the editors/creators of marvel have no canon in Nosgoth either.

so technically, it would be Living tribunal who is as helpless as a child in Nosgoth to do anything, he would either have to leave or Kain will somehow find a way to destroy this Tribunal one way or another, eventually in a billion years or so, since Tribunal has been bested before.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
false your not getting what ime saying, TOAA is not the supreme of Nosgoth and its not part of the Marvel omniverse, not one part of it, theres nothing Living Tribunal can do to the Supreme that is Amy herring or the other designers and creators of the games nor their rules, LT is helpless to do anything in Nosgoth.

yeh. Marvel universes, but he gets his power from TOAA who does not excist in Nosgoth so technically LT becomes a giant yellow man and drops to the ground like a used cloth but ofc according to KMC rules he would still have his own power even if the source of it is gone, which means it would be his power VS a supreme creators rule, which he would never break, especially since the editors/creators of marvel have no canon in Nosgoth either.

so technically, it would be Living tribunal who is as helpless as a child in Nosgoth to do anything, he would either have to leave or Kain will somehow find a way to destroy this Tribunal one way or another, eventually in a billion years or so, since Tribunal has been bested before.

Well if u do logic like that, then Kain cant do anything to any character in a diferent game because they are in a different world, and ur suggesting that characters cant keep their powers when they come to a different world, LT has got his power from TOAA, TOAA is god, god created everything, the logic ur using is that characters cant use there powers if they come to a different world, which is pretty stupid, then kainwont even beat mario cuz mario is in a diffeerent world where the same rules dont apply, he wont beable to beat Ken Masters because Kain was born from his parents, and his parents never existed in the SF world..

What powers has Kain demonstrated that suggests hes "TOAA" in Nosgoth? Mephisto sure has suggested that he has the power of TOAA in his realm he created, by manipulating the time, creating beings, controlling everything in that realm, etc, yet Galactus the devourer of worlds, he has powers to warp entire galaxies and destroy entire galaxies with a gesture, he once came to Mephistos realm and almost absorbed it, LT has powers trillions times Galactus.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Well if u do logic like that, then Kain cant do anything to any character in a diferent game because they are in a different world, cant touch mario cuz mario is in a diffeerent world where the same rules dont apply.. anyway what powers has Kain demonstrated that suggests hes "TOAA" in Nosgoth? Mephisto sure has suggested that he has the power of TOAA in his realm he created, by manipulating the time, creating beings, controlling everything in that realm, etc, yet Galactus came to his realm and almost absorbed it.


no because there are not rules that make a diffrent to Kain in other worlds and most matches consist of a nutral environment, but sure if a being has an alternate world, Like Jedah has his Maijigen (spelling) then its truth that Kain would have to play by Jedahs rules in his own dimension, it makes sense

its not Kain who is TOAA, its Amy herring, TOAA is simply the embodiment and overall avatar sort of, of Marvel, wheras Amy Herring and the developers of legacy of kain games are Nosgoths TOAA and have stated officially Time is immutable in Nosgoth, its not kain who is doing it, its the world itself and the Developers, Living tribunal cannot overrule this rule set down by a creator.

If theres a rule in another universe set down and officiially stated by developers of the game then its the same, if in another gaming world gravity is diffrent then kain cannot do anything about it ofc

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
no because there are not rules that make a diffrent to Kain in other worlds and most matches consist of a nutral environment, but sure if a being has an alternate world, Like Jedah has his Maijigen (spelling) then its truth that Kain would have to play by Jedahs rules in his own dimension, it makes sense

its not Kain who is TOAA, its Amy herring, TOAA is simply the embodiment and overall avatar sort of, of Marvel, wheras Amy Herring and the developers of legacy of kain games are Nosgoths TOAA and have stated officially Time is immutable in Nosgoth, its not kain who is doing it, its the world itself and the Developers, Living tribunal cannot overrule this rule set down by a creator.

If theres a rule in another universe set down and officiially stated by developers of the game then its the same, if in another gaming world gravity is diffrent then kain cannot do anything about it ofc

Even if time is immutable, why do u think LT wouldnt beable to kill Kain in nosgoth? That is assuming each person has all his powers while transferring in different worlds.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Even if time is immutable, why do u think LT wouldnt beable to kill Kain in nosgoth? That is assuming each person has all his powers while transferring in different worlds.

it means time cannot be changed, sometimes time will even delete an oppressor who tries to change it or kills them, or destroys an object that is trying to bother time.

this means LT will not be able to kill Kain, simply because Kain is never killed in time, in Nosgoth he simply cannot be killed, luckily in games VS this does not make him indestructable completly because he can still be defeaten and overall time cannot delete his opponents because its based around his world, his scion of balance power doesnt allow him to die however but he could be deleted, however in Nosgoth, he is never deleted from excistence, so he never can be deleted. In Nosgoth Kain cannot be deleted or destroyed and neither can other characters who have excisted, LT would not be able to influence the world

ofc outside of Nosgoth LT would easily delete Kain with less than a whim i bet

technically in KMC the rules say that characters have all their abilities in any world unless specified ortherwise

Terryc250
Why does LT need time to kill Kain? He can destroy universes with gestures, so he can either destroy kains body, or encase him where he cannot escape.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Why does LT need time to kill Kain? He can destroy universes with gestures, so he can either destroy kains body, or encase him where he cannot escape.

what are you talking about, in Nosgoth, time just wouldnt let things happen to kain, nothing would happen to him......because it didnt happen to him in time, thats how things work.....time is immutable, theres nothing LT could do in Nosgoth

SaintSmurph
Originally posted by Burning thought
what are you talking about, in Nosgoth, time just wouldnt let things happen to kain, nothing would happen to him......because it didnt happen to him in time, thats how things work.....time is immutable, theres nothing LT could do in Nosgoth But LT is above such restrictions... LT has complete and utter control of reality.

I don't think you truly understand.

Burning thought
Originally posted by SaintSmurph
But LT is above such restrictions... LT has complete and utter control of reality.

I don't think you truly understand.
oh i see so he can slap TOAA into the ground and overrule him? hmm didnt know that, prob cuz i didnt understand

Terryc250
So how does Kain do ANYTHING in nosgoth if he doesnt exist in time? He cant even pick up a glass because then it wouldnt have happened. Kinda strange, can u show me the quote of her saying nosgoth is immutable?



No because TOAA is the marvel company itself, unless the LT character can jump out and blow up the marvel company. Marvel company has control over the Marvel verse

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
So how does Kain do ANYTHING in nosgoth if he doesnt exist in time? He cant even pick up a glass because then it wouldnt have happened. Kinda strange, can u show me the quote of her saying nosgoth is immutable?

Kain can do things in time, but he never dies in time, so he cannot die, he does excist in time. Time cannot be changed any way, shape or form and Kain never dies nor do most of the characters, and definatley not by the LT in which case he cannot effect anything

certainly

http://www.thelostworlds.net/Defiance/Question_and_Answer_with_Jen,_Richard,_and_Kyle.html

these developers say time is immutable, i think its said in another one as well somewhere

Terryc250
All it says is time is immutable, meaning history cant be changed.. where are u getting that kain doesnt exist in time?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
All it says is time is immutable, meaning history cant be changed.. where are u getting that kain doesnt exist in time?

i was not saying he does not excist in time, its because he excsits in Nosgoth time and time cannot be changed that means LT cannot do anything....

it means LT will try and do something but because he never does, no effect happens, because Kain is part of time, the time will never change so LT cannot kill kain because Kain cannot die....he never does in time and since time cannot be changed LT can do nothing, understand?

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
Does Pyron even have matter manipulation? I know he made robots, but that really isnt matter manipulation, Sephiroth created the silver haired men, and i dont consider him having matter manipulation, changing the molecular scale and element scale is matter manipulation, like turning dirt into gold, or a dog into a fish, or altering someone genes. There was an old xmen comic i read years ago with Zeus i think, and he temporarily turned off a mutants mutant genes, so he was a regular human

Even if Pyron is capable of crushing a planet with his pinky that really isnt a skyfather feat since ive seen many heralds easily create supernovas and blow up many planets, when sentry and genis were fighting, they were blowing up planets left and right, hulk has even one punch a meteor twice the size of earth before.

I was giving feats of other skyfathers as well, just mostly odin cuz hes the most popular, and most shown.

Hyperstorm only lasted a couple pages because of the Plot Device; in reality, he shouldve only lasted a panel.

And btw, Kain wouldnt last against the LT, he would be erased from existence in an instant

White Crown of the Phoenix has held the universe in her palms, and amputated time, and changing fate, there was a story when scott summers chose not to be with emma frost and all these bad things happened, then the Phoenix turned back time and altered his mind to get with emma frost.

LT is above the Phoenix, he is the judge of the Omniverse, that includes every single multiverse, every universe, and every dimension.

LT once turned the silver surfer into a universe so he can experience godhood.

He erased a whole universe with a thought

He would take nosgoth out of existance just as easily 1. Yeah, in his mortal form he separated Bishamon from the armor and sword that were fused to him body and soul(they possessed him and turned him into a demon) with his energies, he didn't even have to really try. He can turn planets into pure energy, absorbing it completely, in other words he turned matter into non-matter.

2. First of all, the Hulk feat is due mostly because of him being catapaulted at the meteor at high speeds, it wasn't his strength. Can't comment on the Sentry and Genis thing, don't know about it. As for the supernova thing, Pyron is a moving supernova. He can create stars(when he is in the OVA, weak Pyron, they are about 10-20 times bigger than him, so their size prolly depends on his, as he creates them from his body).

3. The whole destroying galaxies thing was from Odin, I know that.

4. Hmmm...don't know, never read it.

5. No shit.

6. Phoenix of the White Crown>>Galactus>>>>>>ANY Skyfather.

7. Okay...and?

8. Alright...

9. He also held to Megaverses in his palms.

10. Yep.

Oh and BT, LT wouldn't have to be in Nosgoth to destroy it. big grin

SaintSmurph
Originally posted by Burning thought
oh i see so he can slap TOAA into the ground and overrule him? hmm didnt know that, prob cuz i didnt understand I can't decide which scenario would elicit a bigger label of "retard"- if you actually mean to compare Kain to TOAA, or if you just have an incredibly crappy analogy.

If you mean the developers... Kain could just as easily be transported out of Nosgoth by the LT.

Needless to say, Living Tribunal would never lose. And, even if his win is simply taking away all of Kain's powers, it would still be a win.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Yeah, in his mortal form he separated Bishamon from the armor and sword that were fused to him body and soul(they possessed him and turned him into a demon) with his energies, he didn't even have to really try. He can turn planets into pure energy, absorbing it completely, in other words he turned matter into non-matter.

2. First of all, the Hulk feat is due mostly because of him being catapaulted at the meteor at high speeds, it wasn't his strength. Can't comment on the Sentry and Genis thing, don't know about it. As for the supernova thing, Pyron is a moving supernova. He can create stars(when he is in the OVA, weak Pyron, they are about 10-20 times bigger than him, so their size prolly depends on his, as he creates them from his body).

3. The whole destroying galaxies thing was from Odin, I know that.

4. Hmmm...don't know, never read it.

5. No shit.

6. Phoenix of the White Crown>>Galactus>>>>>>ANY Skyfather.

7. Okay...and?

8. Alright...

9. He also held to Megaverses in his palms.

10. Yep.

Oh and BT, LT wouldn't have to be in Nosgoth to destroy it. big grin

I wasnt even talking to you in half of that so i dont know why u gave me replies

Thats not really matter manipulating.. when u absorb things it becomes apart of you. Can he actually like CHANGE molecules into another molecule, not seperating things, but actually changing things, like turn a fish into a monkey or something.

Ive yet to see that, our sun is considered a small star, and our sun is well over 100 times the size of earth

No i said Surtur who is weaker then Odin has destroyed countless galaxies and Surtur is weaker then Odin, Seth has destroyed many galaxies, and he is only like a mid tier skyfather



I think ur one not understanding that quote..

"it means LT will try and do something but because he never does, no effect happens" What?? What the creators said by "Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't." Means the PAST/HISTORY cannot be changed because you cant go back in time and change the past because that never happened. It says nothing about the PRESENT and the FUTURE, the future has not happened yet.

"because Kain is part of time" huh?? U said earlier that kain doesnt exist in time

Anyway, LT will just sit outside of Nosgoth, snap his fingers, and Nosgoth will be gone

Burning thought
Originally posted by SaintSmurph
I can't decide which scenario would elicit a bigger label of "retard"- if you actually mean to compare Kain to TOAA, or if you just have an incredibly crappy analogy.

If you mean the developers... Kain could just as easily be transported out of Nosgoth by the LT.

Needless to say, Living Tribunal would never lose. And, even if his win is simply taking away all of Kain's powers, it would still be a win.

TOAA is writers, Amy Herring, Jack etc etc are writers, your obviously not getting it and your falling short and phailing because of it......

this is to do with the world not kain

and no he could not because he never is transported out of Nosgoth, you phail again, he never is and so he never will be, your fanboyism of Marvel and its overpowered LT is almost sickening, to think this thing could take on a developer? lawls at that, Amy herring would spill ink over all his comics....owned...

but seriously, he would lose....he wont die no...but hell lose because he cant do anything and cannot effect Nosgoth smile


Originally posted by Terryc250
I think ur one not understanding that quote..

"it means LT will try and do something but because he never does, no effect happens" What?? What the creators said by "Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't." Means the PAST/HISTORY cannot be changed because you cant go back in time and change the past because that never happened. It says nothing about the PRESENT and the FUTURE, the future has not happened yet.

"because Kain is part of time" huh?? U said earlier that kain doesnt exist in time

Anyway, LT will just sit outside of Nosgoth, snap his fingers, and Nosgoth will be gone

no i think your simply not comprehending what ime saying

Time in the world is immutable....that means LT cannot do anything in the past or the present as its happening and because LT is not canon in LOKverse he cannot effect the future either, nor can any non LOK character, its possible in the future a LOK character may do something but since LT is not canon in the first place if he was in the LOKverse nothing would happen...

plz quote me where i said Kain does not excist in time, i dont remember saying that

no because Nosgoth has never actually been gone, so in time and according to canonology Nosgoth can never be taken by a non Nosgoth being either, he would still be trying to effect the power of a writer, which ofc he would fail at....the only being that could possibly technically destroy Nosgoth is another real being, so if TOAA (the writers) ran down to the studio and ripped up and destroyed everything to do with LOKverse then they woudl effectively destroy it, but their comic book character cannot overthrow a creator ime afraid, but effectively that would not work either, the whole of the Marvel universe would go into a big freeze because their writers are carted off to jail big grin

Soljer
Are you seriously comparing Kain to the Living Tribunal?

Furthermore, why? In a Sephiroth vs. Dante thread?

Terryc250
What are you talking about? It says the HISTORY/PAST cannot be changed, it says nothing about the present or future.

"If Ariel enters the Reaver in the BO era, does this alter the events of Soul Reaver?"
meaning - If Ariel came to the past would it alter the present events of the Soul Reaver?

"No. Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't. Jen, Richard, and Kyle mention the film 12 Monkeys at this point as an example of this concept. While some things (like Ariel's role at the Spirit Forge) might seem out of place, it will all make sense in the end."

Meaning - Theres no way they wouldve changed the history because the history is already how it is, and that never happened in the past.

Just liek the film "12 Monkeys" they try to send the protagonist to the past to prevent the outbreak of a virus, yet in the end, everything works out exactly as the future, and nothing is changed. (meaning theres no way the present can be altered or else it wouldve already been altered, and the virus wouldnt have happened in thr first place)

This says NOTHING about the future, in the movie 12 monkeys they can discover a cure and destroy the virus, and the virus will be gone, however, from the past to present, CANNOT be altered because it already happened.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
What are you talking about? It says the HISTORY/PAST cannot be changed, it says nothing about the present or future.

"If Ariel enters the Reaver in the BO era, does this alter the events of Soul Reaver?"
meaning - If Ariel came to the past would it alter the present events of the Soul Reaver?

"No. Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't. Jen, Richard, and Kyle mention the film 12 Monkeys at this point as an example of this concept. While some things (like Ariel's role at the Spirit Forge) might seem out of place, it will all make sense in the end."

Meaning - Theres no way they wouldve changed the history because the history is already how it is, and that never happened in the past.

Just liek the film "12 Monkeys" they try to send the protagonist to the past to prevent the outbreak of a virus, yet in the end, everything works out exactly as the future, and nothing is changed. (meaning theres no way the present can be altered or else it wouldve already been altered, and the virus wouldnt have happened in thr first place)

This says NOTHING about the future, in the movie 12 monkeys they can discover a cure and destroy the virus, and the virus will be gone, however, from the past to present, CANNOT be altered because it already happened.


Kain cannot die in Nosgoth because he is the scion of Balance, time itself would not let him die, simple.....also you lost the point where i said the Living Tribunal is nothing to do with the Canon of LOK so he could not destroy kain in the present or future either because he will never excist in the future or present, nor will any of his powers excist such, so how can something that does not excist in the present or future affect Kain or anything in the LOKverse, there is no way in the future or present kain will be destroyed by LT so it will not happen in time....

what you are not getting is that Kain and especially Raziel are stuck in a loop, i dont know if its said in that FAQ or a diffrent one, but their trapped in a time loop to play out their fates (Raziel certainly is anyway) over and over again, which means the loop is a loop of time that cannot be broken, So LT would not be able to touch Raziel, also kain is the scion so in time he will not die either because of this.

Originally posted by Soljer
Are you seriously comparing Kain to the Living Tribunal?

Furthermore, why? In a Sephiroth vs. Dante thread?

1. ime not comparing Kain to anything.....read the thread before assuming please

2. not sure, whats it mean to you? this thread has been finshed afaik and the conversation has gone from skyfathers to this

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain cannot die in Nosgoth because he is the scion of Balance, time itself would not let him die, simple.....also you lost the point where i said the Living Tribunal is nothing to do with the Canon of LOK so he could not destroy kain in the present or future either because he will never excist in the future or present, nor will any of his powers excist such, so how can something that does not excist in the present or future affect Kain or anything in the LOKverse, there is no way in the future or present kain will be destroyed by LT so it will not happen in time....

what you are not getting is that Kain and especially Raziel are stuck in a loop, i dont know if its said in that FAQ or a diffrent one, but their trapped in a time loop to play out their fates (Raziel certainly is anyway) over and over again, which means the loop is a loop of time that cannot be broken, So LT would not be able to touch Raziel, also kain is the scion so in time he will not die either because of this.



1. ime not comparing Kain to anything.....read the thread before assuming please

2. not sure, whats it mean to you? this thread has been finshed afaik and the conversation has gone from skyfathers to this

Ur not understanding the logic used in Games "Versus" Forum, we assume both characters have all of their abilities, if LOK and Marvel universe merged, Nosgoth would just be another reality, and wiped out instantly.


omg, NONE of characters we use in versus battles, existed in any eachother universes, we use our imaginations, information, and feats, to determine winners,

If LT was sent into nosgoth with all of his powers, he would erase nosgoth.


Alright, but we are using the "what if" factor here.. not storyline, these battles are non-cannon..
so after they play out their fates, kain wins, he rules over nosgoth or whatever, now what if LT shows up? Then nosgoth is doomed. Kain cannot handle a being at that high of a caliber who is able to wipe out realitys and universes on a whim.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Ur not understanding the logic used in Games "Versus" Forum, we assume both characters have all of their abilities, if LOK and Marvel universe merged, Nosgoth would just be another reality, and wiped out instantly.


omg, NONE of characters we use in versus battles, existed in any eachother universes, we use our imaginations, information, and feats, to determine winners,

If LT was sent into nosgoth with all of his powers, he would erase nosgoth.


Alright, but we are using the "what if" factor here.. not storyline, these battles are non-cannon..
so after they play out their fates, kain wins, he rules over nosgoth or whatever, now what if LT shows up? Then nosgoth is doomed. Kain cannot handle a being at that high of a caliber who is able to wipe out realitys and universes on a whim.

no your not understanding it....not every unvierse and world has the same rules nor do they have the same specific rules LOKverse has, and this one rule would basically protect all beings in it, who are apart of the LOKverse from any others because their fates cannot be changed.

if Marvelverse and LOkverse merged why would it be wiped out? that doesnt make sense, why would anyone want to wipe it out, also this would only be possible if TOAA and Amy herring both agreed on this, however that means there would be two creators in one verse so no, technically even as part of Marvel Amy herring still being the creator of LOKverse would still have these rules of Nosgoth set in place, for example ill use your own example, you say Mephisto has control in his own realm, well Amy herring has control in this Nosgoth, only diffrence would be Amy is a creator like TOAA is one, in which case not even TOAA himself could do anything unless for some reason Marvel bought the rights to LOK, not going to happen lol

yes so they do have all their abilities, LT does have all his abilities, but does that mean the rules set down by the omnipotent creator in their own realm is not equel somehow to will of TOAA who could delete LT with a thought...dont be foolish, just because LT has all his powers does not mean the rules of the world means nothing...

what rubbish are you talking, ive been on this forum for a long time, i think i quite rightly realise we are using characters from other universes, this point means nothing.....

no he would only not be erased because he is apparently not apart of time, with all his powers which ofc in a VS he would have, otherwise this would not be a debate he would just be a yellow giant floating without any power and would probably vanish all together witohut TOAA but no, i understand the case, unfortunatley he is going to be trying to overrule a specific rule of the universe created by the creator of that universe, LT does not >>>a creator of an excistence like he would not >>> TOAA

no what you dont realsie is that Kain throughout the history of Nosgoth is set on a path created by the Wheel of fate, LT is not part of this path which means Kain cannot be deleted by LT....no because if LT somehow for the sake of a KMC battle showed up, he would even with all his powers still would not be able to break a rule created specifically by the creators, so he would not be able to break kain off that path.

he wipes out realities and unvierses of Marvel, Marvels time is not immutable apprently either, history can be changed. Nosgoth is diffrent, its simply lucky for the Tribunal that if he entered Nosgoth he would not be completly deleted thanks to not being part of time anyway

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
no your not understanding it....not every unvierse and world has the same rules nor do they have the same specific rules LOKverse has, and this one rule would basically protect all beings in it, who are apart of the LOKverse from any others because their fates cannot be changed.

if Marvelverse and LOkverse merged why would it be wiped out? that doesnt make sense, why would anyone want to wipe it out, also this would only be possible if TOAA and Amy herring both agreed on this, however that means there would be two creators in one verse so no, technically even as part of Marvel Amy herring still being the creator of LOKverse would still have these rules of Nosgoth set in place, for example ill use your own example, you say Mephisto has control in his own realm, well Amy herring has control in this Nosgoth, only diffrence would be Amy is a creator like TOAA is one, in which case not even TOAA himself could do anything unless for some reason Marvel bought the rights to LOK, not going to happen lol

yes so they do have all their abilities, LT does have all his abilities, but does that mean the rules set down by the omnipotent creator in their own realm is not equel somehow to will of TOAA who could delete LT with a thought...dont be foolish, just because LT has all his powers does not mean the rules of the world means nothing...

what rubbish are you talking, ive been on this forum for a long time, i think i quite rightly realise we are using characters from other universes, this point means nothing.....

no he would only not be erased because he is apparently not apart of time, with all his powers which ofc in a VS he would have, otherwise this would not be a debate he would just be a yellow giant floating without any power and would probably vanish all together witohut TOAA but no, i understand the case, unfortunatley he is going to be trying to overrule a specific rule of the universe created by the creator of that universe, LT does not >>>a creator of an excistence like he would not >>> TOAA

no what you dont realsie is that Kain throughout the history of Nosgoth is set on a path created by the Wheel of fate, LT is not part of this path which means Kain cannot be deleted by LT....no because if LT somehow for the sake of a KMC battle showed up, he would even with all his powers still would not be able to break a rule created specifically by the creators, so he would not be able to break kain off that path.

he wipes out realities and unvierses of Marvel, Marvels time is not immutable apprently either, history can be changed. Nosgoth is diffrent, its simply lucky for the Tribunal that if he entered Nosgoth he would not be completly deleted thanks to not being part of time anyway

No ur not using forum character versus logic, ur using ur LOK storyline logic, ur saying because Kain's fate is yet to revealed, theres no way LT couldve killed him. We're doing non-cannon battles here, meaning which character is stronger, and who would win if they fought eachother. LT has displayed powers that can erase universes, dimensions, realities, what has kain done to even compare with this? Don't give me an answer saying "well in nosgoth, he cant be killed by LT because his storyline fate is yet to be revealed about what happens to him" or something like that, thats like saying if time was immutable in marvel, wolverine cant be killed by anyone in existance because he appeared in the comic xmen 2099, which means he'll own anyone who opposes him.

thats the logic your using, simply put, in LOKverse time cannot be changed, and kain already has a fate, which means theres no way LT can/couldve killed him correct? Yeah see thats not the kind of logic doesn't work here.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
No ur not using forum character versus logic, ur using ur LOK storyline logic, ur saying because Kain's fate is yet to revealed, theres no way LT couldve killed him. We're doing non-cannon battles here, meaning which character is stronger, and who would win if they fought eachother. LT has displayed powers that can erase universes, dimensions, realities, what has kain done to even compare with this? Don't give me an answer saying "well in nosgoth, he cant be killed by LT because his storyline fate is yet to be revealed about what happens to him" or something like that, thats like saying if time was immutable in marvel, wolverine cant be killed by anyone in existance because he appeared in the comic xmen 2099, which means he'll own anyone who opposes him.

thats the logic your using, simply put, in LOKverse time cannot be changed, and kain already has a fate, which means theres no way LT can/couldve killed him correct? Yeah see thats not the kind of logic doesn't work here.

no ime using logic of the forum otherwise if i was using sotry logic LT would die as soon as he came into Nosgoth, which ofc isnt for this forum. No ime saying its already written, even if its not revelead theres no way along this fate line LT can do anything or be in this path. As i said obviously out of Nosgoth Kain is gonner but in Nosgoth hes protected by rules made by creators. Yes but time is not immutable in Marvel, your saying rubbish now, i may as well say if Kain was an omniversal TOAA killer he would win this fight no matter what but he just IS not is he, so thats not the line of thought that is correct for this situation. And no not neccerily, even if time was immutable Wolverine could not defeat everyone, it would likely mean he is just indefeatable but i dont know enough about wolverines comics so i wont debate him. Dont give me all that LT can destroy anything rubbish either, i KNOW his power is incredible and he can do these things but not if a Creator in their own realm slaps down a rule.

exacltey Kain has a fate, time cannot be changed so IN Nosgoth he cannot be defeated, outside easily, inside nopes.....you cant negate the rules and powers in a world, the rules of this forum simply state in a world characters have their own powers, not that the worlds rules and powers are negated, that would depend on the decision and rules of the Thread. Show me where the worlds rules dont mean anything, if thats true then all this Jedah BFR rubbish V2D says is ofc void in his arguements and that rule would benefit me in other threads if you can prove a realms/dimensions rules are negated......

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
no ime using logic of the forum otherwise if i was using sotry logic LT would die as soon as he came into Nosgoth, which ofc isnt for this forum. No ime saying its already written, even if its not revelead theres no way along this fate line LT can do anything or be in this path. As i said obviously out of Nosgoth Kain is gonner but in Nosgoth hes protected by rules made by creators. Yes but time is not immutable in Marvel, your saying rubbish now, i may as well say if Kain was an omniversal TOAA killer he would win this fight no matter what but he just IS not is he, so thats not the line of thought that is correct for this situation. And no not neccerily, even if time was immutable Wolverine could not defeat everyone, it would likely mean he is just indefeatable but i dont know enough about wolverines comics so i wont debate him. Dont give me all that LT can destroy anything rubbish either, i KNOW his power is incredible and he can do these things but not if a Creator in their own realm slaps down a rule.

exacltey Kain has a fate, time cannot be changed so IN Nosgoth he cannot be defeated, outside easily, inside nopes.....you cant negate the rules and powers in a world, the rules of this forum simply state in a world characters have their own powers, not that the worlds rules and powers are negated, that would depend on the decision and rules of the Thread. Show me where the worlds rules dont mean anything, if thats true then all this Jedah BFR rubbish V2D says is ofc void in his arguements and that rule would benefit me in other threads if you can prove a realms/dimensions rules are negated......

LT would die in Nosgoth? How so? He can survive universal explosions, what can Kain do to him? Plus how can Kain fight anyone other then LOK characters in Nosgoth if they never existed in Nosgoth correct? So basically its impossible for Kain to fight anyone other then LOK characters in Nosgoth, or in his storyline period, which voids any kind of battle in Nosgoth, other then the battles he fights in his storyline.

So the only reason Kain cant lose in Nosgoth is because he cant fight the opponent because the opponent never existed in his storyline.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
LT would die in Nosgoth? How so? He can survive universal explosions, what can Kain do to him? Plus how can Kain fight anyone other then LOK characters in Nosgoth if they never existed in Nosgoth correct? So basically its impossible for Kain to fight anyone other then LOK characters in Nosgoth, or in his storyline period, which voids any kind of battle in Nosgoth, other then the battles he fights in his storyline.

So the only reason Kain cant lose in Nosgoth is because he cant fight the opponent because the opponent never existed in his storyline.

because LT would have no power, it all comes from TOAA since its like his henchmen and judge of the unvierse, luckily this is a KMC matchup and he would have his powers, but if he had no power whatsoever, he would likely die or become nothing since isnt he an abstract being?

its true, if an opponent who is not apart of time (LT) goes into nosgoth, it would be like an alien in the time stream, and he would be deleted, for example if Wolverine came, he would be deleted from excistence, if Superman came, he would be deleted, if a billion superman 1 millions and 1 million superman primes came, they would be deleted because thats where they dont excist

fortunatley, KMC forums can allow people to make up their own battles in a completly diffrent universe, kain according to the battle and choosing of a thread starter can have a battle not in Nosgoth, which is where most Kain VS battles go.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Burning thought


its true, if an opponent who is not apart of time (LT) goes into nosgoth,


sorry i typoed, the LT is not apart of time and so he would not be deleted is what i meant to say but Wolverine is and so he would be deleted

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
I wasnt even talking to you in half of that so i dont know why u gave me replies

Thats not really matter manipulating.. when u absorb things it becomes apart of you. Can he actually like CHANGE molecules into another molecule, not seperating things, but actually changing things, like turn a fish into a monkey or something.

Ive yet to see that, our sun is considered a small star, and our sun is well over 100 times the size of earth

No i said Surtur who is weaker then Odin has destroyed countless galaxies and Surtur is weaker then Odin, Seth has destroyed many galaxies, and he is only like a mid tier skyfather 1. Cause I'm a gangster.

2. He turned a demon warrior into a human and a set of armor and a sword, he basically separated them. Can he change molecules? See, this is what sucks about debating game characters, unlike in comics, they don't say shit like,"ZOMG IM FLIENG AT 1010101010 TYMES LITE!". He separated a human from the demon armor which fused with him, turning him into a demon....that's the best I have.

3. Yet to see Pyron make stars? He does it in the OVA, I can't get a vid of him making them tho, they don't look like normal stars, but they have the same properties.

4. I have a question, was this all in one shot?

Sol Valentine
This thread was on the A train, now It's on the V train.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
because LT would have no power, it all comes from TOAA since its like his henchmen and judge of the unvierse, luckily this is a KMC matchup and he would have his powers, but if he had no power whatsoever, he would likely die or become nothing since isnt he an abstract being?

its true, if an opponent who is not apart of time (LT) goes into nosgoth, it would be like an alien in the time stream, and he would be deleted, for example if Wolverine came, he would be deleted from excistence, if Superman came, he would be deleted, if a billion superman 1 millions and 1 million superman primes came, they would be deleted because thats where they dont excist

fortunatley, KMC forums can allow people to make up their own battles in a completly diffrent universe, kain according to the battle and choosing of a thread starter can have a battle not in Nosgoth, which is where most Kain VS battles go.

...Everything comes from TOAA... If he goes anywhere else he'd still keep his powers just like wolverwine would.

its not that theyd be deleted, its that they cant be in nosgoth because everything in nosgoth is already planned out and they arent in the plans.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
4. I have a question, was this all in one shot?

Yes, some are even from unintentional directed blasts aiming for someone else

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Terryc250
That proves they have great busting power. Darkseid has never busted so much as a Solar System that I know of, if there is one thing I have learned from BT, it is that there is more to power than busting.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
That proves they have great busting power. Darkseid has never busted so much as a Solar System that I know of, if there is one thing I have learned from BT, it is that there is more to power than busting.
They are just at higher power period. Their battles cross galaxies instantly, they take planet busting hits, etc anyone even somewhat close is at danger

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