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I think they had a good storyline overall but that they had too much story to condense into three movies. Even with the three movies being sort of long they couldn't dedicate the appropriate amount of time to all the characters IMO or develop the plot well enough to make it fly by the time At World's End rolled around.

Yeah, I do agree they dug some pretty big holes to fill in AWE. they really made the story quite massive... and didn't have enough time to properly develop the characters or plot for that matter.

gorgeous cinematic battles and such though.

what i want to know is, why they gave jack the monkey and pintel and ragetti so much screen time. haha.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
Yeah, I do agree they dug some pretty big holes to fill in AWE. they really made the story quite massive... and didn't have enough time to properly develop the characters or plot for that matter.

gorgeous cinematic battles and such though.

what i want to know is, why they gave jack the monkey and pintel and ragetti so much screen time. haha.
You know what you make a good point I never even thought about that when I was considering what could have been trimmed to give them more time to develop.

I think they might have needed to make a 4th movie by stretching the story a bit because I think they really did a number on a lot of the characters. I needed more time to get Elizabeth back to her roots because she became totally unlikeable to me in AWE and I liked her in COTB I think one more movie with some real closure all around could have made me feel happy for all the characters involved.

well... I guess DMC was loaded down with some dead weight, but the movie as a whole was a lot of fun, so i didn't notice it. the whole Jack being the god on the island thing was superfluous, but it was HILARIOUS, so it didn't bother me.

AWE??? They could have easily trimmed 4 minutes off the opening scene by maybe killing 10 people instead of 300 and making us watch it all. i am bitter about that one.

They had a LOT to cram in, and they made things a bit too hard on themselves i think. they could have easily tied up what they started in DMC, but they added in a lot of AWE. SOme of it was great--- the meeting of the pirate brethran was great, all those characters were really interesting, but the whole situation with Will and Jack going back and forth making weird deals with Beckett got REALLY confusing.

Norrington didn't have to die. The only purpose that served was to make us all hate bootstrap.

we had a thread about the many plot holes a while back... but i think the film actually has grown on most of us since..

Originally posted by katelovespirate


They had a LOT to cram in, and they made things a bit too hard on themselves i think. they could have easily tied up what they started in DMC, but they added in a lot of AWE. SOme of it was great--- the meeting of the pirate brethran was great, all those characters were really interesting, but the whole situation with Will and Jack going back and forth making weird deals with Beckett got REALLY confusing.

Norrington didn't have to die. The only purpose that served was to make us all hate bootstrap.


This I agree with the most. I know a lot of kids really liked these movies and I honestly couldn't IMAGINE how they were able to follow all the changing allegiances. I'm 22 years old and a college student with a good GPA so I am not stupid and yet I was like OMG who is on what side now? Huh?!? I said this on another board and I was accused of being stupid but I mean I think that was the main shortcoming of AWE. I just stopped caring about the character's motivations at one point because I couldn't remember what they were.

I didn't like Norrington at all but I thought his death was very unnecessary.

They say a simple story line is the best. I'm 22 also! How about that? Yeah, there was too much to cram in and they shouldn't have opened quite as many doors in DMC because that's what started some people getting fed up-- that it was too convoluted and complex compared to the first one. I'm not saying change everything, just have narrowed things down a bit.

There were too many deal-making scenes in AWE and just a little too much talking for a pirate movie, even though I actually love the talking scenes. Did Swann have to die? Not really. They could have met up with him in the end and Junior and Liz could have dear Grandpa Weatherby to provide a calming factor in their lives. Did James have to die? Certainly not! I adore James, fabulous guy, and the last thing the audience needed to feel was hatred for Bootstrap. We were supposed to want Will to save him, weren't we? Feel sorry for the guy a little bit? Doesn't work too well when you show him running somebody through.

This is kinda off topic to what you're saying but I have to get this out.

The whole Fountain of Youth ploy is so ****ing retarded! They added it in what like the last 10 minutes. Honestly something is wrong with T&T, they must've hit their heads somewhere cause their plot makes no sense. I hate how they just threw that whole map thing in there and left Jack in a tiny boat, with nothing but a goddamn compass.

They make him out to be such a goddamn joke, it makes me sick. I don't care if this is a Disney film, if they put PG 13 stuff in there then WHY do they insist on still making the LITTLE KIDS UNDER 10 HAPPY?!

IT'S SO STUPID, it's been so long after AWE came out but I'm still so fuming mad. I will never, ever, ever forgive T&T for ruining POTC and the Sparrabeth goodness that made it such a perfectly whole movie.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
They say a simple story line is the best. I'm 22 also! How about that? Yeah, there was too much to cram in and they shouldn't have opened quite as many doors in DMC because that's what started some people getting fed up-- that it was too convoluted and complex compared to the first one. I'm not saying change everything, just have narrowed things down a bit.

There were too many deal-making scenes in AWE and just a little too much talking for a pirate movie, even though I actually love the talking scenes. Did Swann have to die? Not really. They could have met up with him in the end and Junior and Liz could have dear Grandpa Weatherby to provide a calming factor in their lives. Did James have to die? Certainly not! I adore James, fabulous guy, and the last thing the audience needed to feel was hatred for Bootstrap. We were supposed to want Will to save him, weren't we? Feel sorry for the guy a little bit? Doesn't work too well when you show him running somebody through.
ICAM and that's what's weird I was like what is going on with Bootstrap? He was acting erratically but later I got it but the point is I guess when you get confused about what characters are doing often then the movie becomes laborious to watch. I loved the Pirate lore and the legends and the myths and the wheelings and dealings but this movie was just too much.

And I agree that started with DMC. They took a good element of part one the wheelings and dealings and just overdid it in part 2 and then had EVERYONE doing it in part 3 to where it was just too confusing. It's a shame thought COTB showed so much promise and was a suprise hit they should have been able to spin a better trilogy out of that success. DMC should have been to COTB what Empire Strikes Back as to Star Wars. Pity.

precisely. that was weird. i keep trying to come up with reasons why they did it, and i can't for the life of me figure it out.

Originally posted by RememberS&S
This is kinda off topic to what you're saying but I have to get this out.

The whole Fountain of Youth ploy is so ****ing retarded! They added it in what like the last 10 minutes. Honestly something is wrong with T&T, they must've hit their heads somewhere cause their plot makes no sense. I hate how they just threw that whole map thing in there and left Jack in a tiny boat, with nothing but a goddamn compass.

They make him out to be such a goddamn joke, it makes me sick. I don't care if this is a Disney film, if they put PG 13 stuff in there then WHY do they insist on still making the LITTLE KIDS UNDER 10 HAPPY?!

IT'S SO STUPID, it's been so long after AWE came out but I'm still so fuming mad. I will never, ever, ever forgive T&T for ruining POTC and the Sparrabeth goodness that made it such a perfectly whole movie.
I loved the ending for Captain Jack Sparrow. It was him returned to his roots from the first movie IMO. And honestly Captain Jack Sparrow is never one to give up he was searching for immortality and he heroically traded that to Will so that he could remain alive in some sense even though he wanted that job on The Flying Dutchman so I was glad they showed he is still trying to accomplish his goal and still going to be a freedom seeking adventurer.

hmmm i really didn't like Jack's ending. i feel like it's sending Jack backwards instead of forwards as a character.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
hmmm i really didn't like Jack's ending. i feel like it's sending Jack backwards instead of forwards as a character.
Where is Captain Jack Sparrow supposed to go? He already demonstrated his purpose that pirates can be good people too and make good decisions and even pass up on what they truly want (by giving Will the Flying Dutchman when it was literally in the palm of his hands). And in the end he got to sail away, have his freedom and continue pursuing his goal. I think he got the happiest ending of anybody in the series except he didn't get the Black Pearl back.

well, I suppose Jack didn't end up a single mom on a beach or a cursed heartless fish dude, so that's a plus. But he lost the pearl, he's drunk in a dingy trying to sale to Florida (and i don't care where you are in the caribbean, that's like trying to make it from cuba in a raft... not a good idea.)

Calypso is still on the loose, by the way. I dont think they've all seen the end of her.

I think Gibbs got the best ending.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
well, I suppose Jack didn't end up a single mom on a beach or a cursed heartless fish dude, so that's a plus. But he lost the pearl, he's drunk in a dingy trying to sale to Florida (and i don't care where you are in the caribbean, that's like trying to make it from cuba in a raft... not a good idea.)

Calypso is still on the loose, by the way. I dont think they've all seen the end of her.

I think Gibbs got the best ending.
Well maybe but I am sure Captain Jack Sparrow will be fine and he might just be using that dingy till the next best thing comes along.

He didn't change at all, he went back to his selfish, immortality seeking jerk. I think everyone is so inlove with this idea of Captain Jack Sparrow and they idolize him so much that they think he's a fricken god.

He's just an ordinary person, he wasn't born loving piracy, he was forced into it. He isn't brave, he's cowardly. He's a real person with insecurities and flaws. To make him go back to that fake pirate from CotBP is an insult to his character.

There is absolutly no point in DMC or AWE, they brought up the possibility of J/E then just left it with out resolving anything. We all know there was genuine relationship with Jack and Lizzie, and albeit, Will and Lizzie too, neither side got a proper ending.

To leave all sides in misery and comtempt for POTC.

I hated how they just leave Jack in the same rut that he started in. Who's to say he'll actually live and make it to the Fountain of Youth? They make him too untouchable, he gets stuck on an island twice, he dies, he's cursed with the black mark, AND HE STILL GETS OUT ALIVE, HOW LUCKY CAN HE GET.

They made him waaaay to surreal and that's not right, he's just a regular pirate no different than the ones in Tortuga. He's not immortal, he's suspectable to harm, to human emotion like LOVE. *cough**cough*

It just makes me sick how DMC and AWE count for absolutly nothing at all and everyone went back to the same lives, nothing changed but a bunch of people dead and out main characters left in the aftermath of the crappiest adventure ever.

Captain Jack Sparrow and Elizabeth were never brought up a real possibility it was obviously only a tease IMO that some fans just got their hopes up over for no reason. Will and Elizabeth were always the story that much was obvious. I watched all three movies together at once and never did I think they were ever going to do Captain Jack Sparrow and Elizabeth especially not after she killed him to save Will and the others.

Captain Jack Sparrow did grow up and change just not in the way some people wanted him to. He gave up his big dream for Will and Elizabeth in some sense even though he didn't have to at all. He passed up his chance for immortality when he could have just said screw it and took the Flying Dutchman for himself. That showed growth to me beyond anything.

We all know Captain Jack Sparrow is not a super hero, but he isn't a pirate romance novel character either and he may someday fall in love but I have no problems with the fact that it didn't happen in the Pirates of the Carribean movies perhaps they really will do a spin off and Captain Jack Sparrow can be explored further.

He didn't end up the same, but he stayed true to himself in th end and that's why I liked it. They didn't try to turn him into someone he wasn't, they only showed that he can be compassionate despite being a pirate but he's still Captain Jack Sparrow at the end of the day and that's what I love about him.

i wasn't a huge fan of jack in AWE... except when he was interacting with either barbossa or beckett. the multiple jack sequences were just weird in my book.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
i wasn't a huge fan of jack in AWE... except when he was interacting with either barbossa or beckett. the multiple jack sequences were just weird in my book.
O IA with that. Sparrbosa is what I love from AWE. That telescope scene was great. But the multiple Captain Jack Sparrows were weird to me. I love Captain Jack Sparrow but there only needs to be one.

absolutely, and as much as i find it shocking i am saying this, i prefer when he keeps his shirt on.

LOL really I didn't mind his shirt off at all but I do prefer Captain Jack Sparrow completely decked out in all his Pirate garb. It really bugs me in DMC that he is missing his hat. I love that thing

i love his hat... and his cute attachment to it. but he seems smaller and more vulnerable without it, and i find that really lovely.

I really just prefer him with all of his affects, lol. I dunno but he seems incomplete without the hat and vulnerable in a way.

exactly... like i just said, i LIKE that vulnerability.

you see it in the "peas in a pod" deleted scene in film 1, and just before the kiss of death in film 2, and for a few moments in film 3 (when Sao Feng is sending him to see Beckett, when he sees Teague,) and those are inevitably my favorite moments of Jack Sparrow. it just adds depth and dimension. it makes him more human and less of a cartoon character or stock figure.

I like seeing Jack somewhat vulnerable from time to time but I love his bravado so I much prefer times when he just gets to be a scoundrel

Maybe they killed james and the Governer cause they really had no purpose. If they didn't then they'd have to make them do stuff throughout the movie and make it even longer. Just like Terry said, they made the parrot fly away before the battle so they wouldn't have to fit it into the battle.

Originally posted by IheartPocky
Maybe they killed james and the Governer cause they really had no purpose. If they didn't then they'd have to make them do stuff throughout the movie and make it even longer. Just like Terry said, they made the parrot fly away before the battle so they wouldn't have to fit it into the battle.
True but the governor was off screen a lot in number 1 he could have been at home waiting for Elizabeth and there were ways to get rid of James besides killing him.

Yep but they already had him out haha. I suppose they could've locked him in a brig for a while and then had him appear out of nowhere. Or any number of things, really. Death was easier though... Ohhhh but what's done is done.

True enough and I'm fine with the trilogy overall

Ooh, I have a question back to the hat. Are all of Jack's vulnerable moments without his hat/coat? Not to sound like a fan girl (cough) but is he vulnerable when he has the least amount of items/clothes on? Because if that's true, I think we've discovered another symbol, ladies! I love streams of consciousness.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Ooh, I have a question back to the hat. Are all of Jack's vulnerable moments without his hat/coat? Not to sound like a fan girl (cough) but is he vulnerable when he has the least amount of items/clothes on? Because if that's true, I think we've discovered another symbol, ladies! I love streams of consciousness.
Well I dunno he was pretty vulernable when Will got stabbed and he was fully clothed then.

I have been watching a lot of Pirates mvids today and I have to say the Will and Elizabeth love story had a lot of potential but the writers really botched it up towards the end of Pirates 2 and never resolved it in Pirates 3 enough. Such a shame it could have been much better,

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Ooh, I have a question back to the hat. Are all of Jack's vulnerable moments without his hat/coat? Not to sound like a fan girl (cough) but is he vulnerable when he has the least amount of items/clothes on? Because if that's true, I think we've discovered another symbol, ladies! I love streams of consciousness.

i think i would agree with this. I LOVE Jack's coat, and he DOES manage to look so vulnerable he makes everyone tear up during the kiss of death, with the coat on...

but think about just after he's rescued Elizabeth in film 1, and Norrington and the guards are pushing him around, he looks very small and vulnerable. or in the peas in a pod scene. or the scene where he shows Lizzie his scars.

I mean, I love Jack with his bravado and his effects, but it's the contrast you get between that and those moments of vulnerability that really makes the character.

Yes I think that his affects make up the legend of Captain Jack Sparrow it's really just peacocking in a way but under all that stuff is Captain Jack Sparrow the man

I love in Pirates 1 when he is being marooned again. He seems so small and helpless. And he doesn't have his jacket or hat on..

I just love Captain Jack Sparrow no matter what he is or isn't wearing, lol

The beautiful thing about DMC was that we got to see the part of Jack that was more than the legend, not Captain Jack Sparrow, but just Jack. Those were some of the loveliest moments, because Jack has been almost always portrayed as a comic character, who cares about nothing but rum and freedom, which is often not taken seriously but is one of his most profound and honest desires. Don't get me wrong, I love the rum-loving, joke-making part of Jack but I think that's only part of him. The reason I'm attracted to him and Lizzie being together is that when they are together, we see another side to Jack. The other side to him that shows that there is a man beneath the legend. Scenes like the island scene in the first movie; in the second movie when he has talks with Lizzie, and when Will is dying in the third. These are my favorite moments. Jack is a great comic character, but there is much more to him. A problem I had with AWE is that that side of him we caught glimpses of just seemed to disappear. It was replaced by a bitter, self-motivated Jack. I can understand some of the bitterness, Lizzie killed him after all. But save that one lovely vunerable scene when Will is about to die, that side of him seemed to disappear, which was a huge disappointment, when I was expecting even more of it then the last two movies, or atleast some affirmation that I wasn't just making it up. Jack is one of my favorites, and one of the most truly complex characters I've seen out of Disney, but he could have been so much more.

i fully agree. beautifully spoken, aelizabeth.

I never liked Captain Jack with Elizabeth at all but I did like his moments with Will and I liked bitter self motivated Jack in part 3. He's a pirate I know he is a man underneath that but business is business is business and Captain Jack Sparrow over all isn't a good person that's why people identified so much with him because he was bad, but not evil in a way and still got to be a anti hero of sorts. It was appealing. I personally overall was quite pleased with Captain Jack's portrayal throughout the trilogy. He is the only one I truly have no complaints about. He did what was necessary at all times and he saved Will and Elizabeth (who he owed nothing to after she killed him) and went on his merry way back to pirating. I think of all the characters in the series he was the least damaged by the story. By the end Elizabeth was disgusting to me. Will seemed a lot stronger and even more noble and had attained his goals and kept his word and Captain Jack proved he could give up his ultimate treasure if he had to and that was immortality for Will.

That's all I need to see from Captain Jack. I don't see how Elizabeth showed any side of him really with her flirting and then chaining him to a ship...

I think it reflects the mess of life in general.

It's really only an opinion, but there seems to be some continuity issues.

Expand on that, tex. I'd like to discuss continuity.