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Just pure swordfighting.

Who wins?

thats a hard one bro.

If cloud could fight Sephiroth in a swordfight, then he sure as hell could beat Dante.

Just pure swordfighting Cloud will win, he chops up buildings like nothing and basically flies around, and hes incredibly skilled

Dante loses this

Cloud beat Sephiroth, who is an omnipotent being who can beat anyone except Cloud. Cloud beats Dante silly.

Hey Keollyn, why don't you do us a favor, and make like a banana.. and get outta here.

I don't know how to make a banana.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Just pure swordfighting Cloud will win, he chops up buildings like nothing and basically flies around, and hes incredibly skilled
not exactly flying, just incredible jumping
but yea cloud wins this..

This is a tough one. Cloud is powerful but Dante has a FAR higher durability and he's much faster. In a pure sword fight it's a tie to me.

Doesnt really matter how durable Dante is, one chop from Clouds sword and its over.

Too bad Cloud is too slow to do that huh?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Doesnt really matter how durable Dante is, one chop from Clouds sword and its over. Yeah, like Cloud can really survive a chop from Dante's sword. One chop and Cloud's history.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Too bad Cloud is too slow to do that huh?
What makes you think Cloud is slow? Hes fast enough to take on Loz and Yazoo at once, when has dante ever displayed movement speed as fast as Loz? Everytime Cloud and Dante's sword clash, Dantes sword will be getting knocked back from Clouds strength until Dantes sword flies out of his hand.

Originally posted by Terryc250
What makes you think Cloud is slow? Hes fast enough to take on Loz and Yazoo at once, when has dante ever displayed movement speed as fast as Loz? Everytime Cloud and Dante's sword clash, Dantes sword will be getting knocked back from Clouds strength until Dantes sword flies out of his hand. Have you seen the fight between Dante and Virgil?

Dante is light years ahead of Cloud in speed and Dante aint weak either especially if he is allowed Devil Trigger.

Originally posted by King Hellstorm
Have you seen the fight between Dante and Virgil?

Dante is light years ahead of Cloud in speed and Dante aint weak either especially if he is allowed Devil Trigger.

Light years? that's distance, not time

Dante in that fight shows good skills. However, it's a strain for him to block bullets, something Cloud can do simply.

Coupled with the weapon comparison.

Cloud takes this pretty comfortably.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Everytime Cloud and Dante's sword clash, Dantes sword will be getting knocked back from Clouds strength until Dantes sword flies out of his hand.

You mean like how Sephiroth's sword was knocked back...oh wait.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
You mean like how Sephiroth's sword was knocked back...oh wait.

Flawed logic. He sliced through buildings and metal like it's nothing. Can Dante do that? no? shame

are you serious......

Originally posted by ESB -1138
You mean like how Sephiroth's sword was knocked back...oh wait.

What are you talking about? Sephiroths sword wasnt knocked back. I hope ur not trying to compare Dante with Sephiroth...



K plz watch this fight between Dante and Vergil, show me his speed even remotely compared to Loz (Cloud took on both Loz and Yazoo) now why would Cloud have trouble with Dante's speed?
WA8qLNiWD1c

Now watch Clouds fight with Sephiroth, Dante got overpowered by Vergils strength and lost his sword, imagine what would happen if he went up against Clouds strength
watch from 2:45 to 4:05
Nvdv55TQcCw

Overpowered no. And as you saw Dante was able to slice the bullets in half showing a speed and accuracy feat right there. Virgil outmanuevered Dante blade. Also lol at cloud overpowering Sephy, Sephy was knocking him around the whole battle feild.

I would like to point out that strength is not the only factor in striking force. There are four, strength, speed, technique, and mass.

Strength,and speed cloud doesnt have over Dante. Maybe technique/skill. Mass is a given but i say dante has that. Dont say Cloud blocks bullets. he doesnt. His sword is bigger than himall he has to do his hold it infront of him and it will be blocked.

I think Cloud is stronger than Dante, who is not that impressive physically.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Overpowered no. And as you saw Dante was able to slice the bullets in half showing a speed and accuracy feat right there. Virgil outmanuevered Dante blade. Also lol at cloud overpowering Sephy, Sephy was knocking him around the whole battle feild.

Overpowered yes, watch as they lock blades then Vergil knocks Dantes sword away, Sephiroth would do it with one strike, Cloud would probably do it in a few.


Cloud doesnt have strength over Dante? Are u joking? Have u even watched Clouds fight? Show me Dante's strength that even compares to half of Clouds strength.

Does anyone even remotely recall that DMC2 (currently) Dante is far stronger than DMC3 Dante? Why are we just relying on that version's feat?

I mean, because Dante has an insane speed feat in DMC2 that Cloud has never bear witness to. Fast reaction speed Cloud may have, but he's overall slower than Dante. Then, all it takes is Dante reinforcing his sword as usual, and it's done. And heaven prays that he doesn't do this in Devil form.

Dante using a motor cycle as a melee weapon. Enough said. Overpower know. You can knock someone sword away who is way stronger than you will skill. We all know Virgil is way more skilled than dante. Dante was in know way overpowered.

Ive yet to see Dante moving as fast as Loz.. You can clearly see Vergil overpowered him in that last push in the swordlock.. i dont see how that can be skill. So ur reasoning for Dante being more stronger then Cloud is because he can use a motorcycle as a melee weapon? Some HUMANS on earth are capable of that, do you think any humans on earth are capable of chopping up giant buildings like Cloud?

Cloud didnt chop any buildings apart. Sephiroth Slice peices of buildings apart and let them fall down towards cloud. Cloud on sliced debris of buildings apart. Stop exaggerating the movie. If it was a true overepower there wouldnt be a power lock. That lasted that long. It was skill that knocked his sword sway. Read up on fencing and martial arts. Vergil and Dante are similar and strength and speed difference is that Vergil surpasses Dante with skill. It pretty obvious if you played through the DMC universe.

The fanboyism is really getting to ur head if u really think Dante has more strength then Cloud, because Dante can lift up a motorcycle, yet Cloud chops up giant parts of concrete buildings easier then then you can cut up paper, Cloud obviously has a ton of strength to beable to jump that high, he basically flies around buildings.

The swordlock lasted about 7 seconds before Dante lost his sword, show me where there was room for technique/skill in that swordlock? And since when were there swordlocks in fencing? rofl

And we're still talking only of DMC3 Dante... the inexperienced, "not in his prime", Dante.

I don't even see why strength matters anyway. Is this a fist fight? The only thing important here is speed and cutting resistance. Whoever has the highest of both wins.

strength is important, as u can see, vergil overpowered him and dante lost his sword. Cloud has dealt with Loz and Yazoo at once, Loz has faster movement speed then Dante.

Originally posted by Keollyn
And we're still talking only of DMC3 Dante... the inexperienced, "not in his prime", Dante.

I don't even see why strength matters anyway. Is this a fist fight? The only thing important here is speed and cutting resistance. Whoever has the highest of both wins. Yup...

In the fight between Dante and Virgil, they were movein so fast that they were swingin at each other before rain drops could hit the ground. I have never seen Cloud come even remotely close to that. And in the beginin of DMC3 Dante was gettin slashed up and stabbed and act like it was nothin. If those same injuries were inflicted on Cloud, he woulda died.

a slash from Cloud would leave Dante decaptitated, if it were raining and Cloud was having a sword combat with Sephiroth, the rain wouldnt be touching the ground either and the sphere would be way bigger because of the impact of the swords even caves in the ground

Originally posted by Terryc250
a slash from Cloud would leave Dante decaptitated, if it were raining and Cloud was having a sword combat with Sephiroth, the rain wouldnt be touching the ground either and the sphere would be way bigger because of the impact of the swords even caves in the ground

Quite the fallacy there. You have proof that Cloud and Sephiroth would mimic Vergil and Dante's rain feat?

Oh, and Loz does not have faster movement speed than Dante.

show me dante moving faster then loz, and they werent cutting every single raindrop that would still make rain hit the ground anyway, what caused the dome was the sword clash impact making all the rain at the same level and fall at the same time, as u can clearly see previously rain hitting the ground and their arms arent even moving fast enough

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Ht40zJW4Wk (0:39)

Now show me where Loz appears invisible to demon kings for some time. And that's Dante in base form...

P.S. Thanks for the concession

Originally posted by Keollyn
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Ht40zJW4Wk (0:39)

Now show me where Loz appears invisible to demon kings for some time. And that's Dante in base form...

P.S. Thanks for the concession

That doesnt really show his movement speed, since we see dante's movement speed at that running speed like all the time, for all we know he distracted the demon king with the sword, hid somewhere then snuck up infront of him with the gun

PS: What concession?

What i mean by movement speed is being at one spot then another in a span of a second or less, not distract someone, go offscreen then get infront of him in a span of 10 seconds.

I wish Charlotte DeBel was here.

Where did she go?

I'm here, darlings. Reading through all that...hmmm and fomulating adequate responce.
But just a few points, quickly:
1. Where did you saw the strain from Dante when he blocked the bullets with sword? He did well especially for the guy who uses a broadsword which is heavier than katana.
2. Cutting through building with sword. Wow, exept from the fact that the same feat to some extent was performed by 18 years old Dante in the first volume of DMC3 manga which is canon prequel to the third game.
3. DMC3 Dante is a noob version- 19years old beginner but with a few impressive speed feats (running down the wall at Max speeds, for example). Also Dante didn't took it too serious when he fought Vergil for the first time- he saw that as the continuation of their childhood sparrings where more concentrated Vergil tended to pwn his lil'bro.
4. High jumps- look at some fights from DMC2 and see how good is Dante at his prime in that (notably the one when he fights a living skyscraper monster).

The material people are reffering to there can be found in Dante's respect thread.

BTW, I got some news about Dante's abilities announced for DMC4. Aside from Gilgamesh, a new badass weapon (or gadget?) was announced- Pandora Box, allowing Dante to get any kind of firearm he wishes.

Also to disarm someone you don't necessary need to be stronger than him. In fact you can put your sword in such a position against the opponent's sword, that the very inertia of its movement does most of work in terms of disarming.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Also to disarm someone you don't necessary need to be stronger than him. In fact you can put your sword in such a position against the opponent's sword, that the very inertia of its movement does most of work in terms of disarming. Exactly, strength is not the only factor.

But you cant deny that it is a big factor, especially with Cloud who has had many years of SOLDIER mercenery training and went through all the events of FFVII, and its not that "he just cut buildings" its that he did it with less effort then cutting butter with a hot knife

Originally posted by Terryc250
But you cant deny that it is a big factor, especially with Cloud who has had many years of SOLDIER mercenery training and went through all the events of FFVII, and its not that "he just cut buildings" its that he did it with less effort then cutting butter with a hot knife Apparently so has Dante.

someone show me Dante cutting up structures as easy as Cloud?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Apparently so has Dante.

With one casual strike of the sword, and what's more- accidentely, when performing a kata after having really bad dream

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Whenever Dante sees dreams on panel, it's always nightmares. But those nightmares show us some of his origin... for example, how he was separated from his brother and how his mother was killed by demons. Dante sometimes hates himself for the fact that he was "too weak" at that time to save his mom from being killed(that's why he shose the path of the warrior and demon hunter).
Note- this is manga, so scans should be read from the right to the left.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6519/pg124125yj2.th.jpghttp://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9691/pg126127hg5.th.jpghttp://img356.imageshack.us/img356/6752/pg128129oj7.th.jpghttp://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4159/pg130131ym1.th.jpghttp://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3274/pg132133pz9.th.jpghttp://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2742/pg134135ox6.th.jpghttp://img154.imageshack.us/img154/6320/pg136137es6.th.jpg

BTW, have you checked the update of Dante's RT- some things from DMC4 were added, as well as spoiler. Pandora Box was much more uber of an item that I've thought, it gives Dante some Scarlet Witch'esque powers.

umm thats cracking a roof.. Cloud clear cuts structures



We're debating a swordfight, if we can bring in items then Cloud should get all his materia and weapons from the games

I'm not talking about that as an argument in favour of Dante in that particular fight.

And what is implied in those scans is that Dante:
a)doesn't put any effort in the hit
b) damages the costruct which is beyond the direct range of blade.

I've adressed the sentence about Pandora Box not to you, what was for you is the scans.

Cloud can do it as well with no effort

Cloud is a cool character and all, but he's not in Dante's league. Advent Children was a badass movie, too bad it did to Cloud the same FF movie did to Terry Bogard.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
BTW, have you checked the update of Dante's RT- some things from DMC4 were added, as well as spoiler. Pandora Box was much more uber of an item that I've thought, it gives Dante some Scarlet Witch'esque powers.

Scarlet Witch?

Lol, Scarlet Witch is a potential omniversal level reality warper(and has done it in HoM), Dante is nothing to her. Unless you meant the Pandora's Box's power derives from probability.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Cloud is a cool character and all, but he's not in Dante's league. Advent Children was a badass movie, too bad it did to Cloud the same FF movie did to Terry Bogard.

Not in Dante's league? But Cloud > Dante in a swordfight..

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
I'm here, darlings. Reading through all that...hmmm and fomulating adequate responce.
But just a few points, quickly:
1. Where did you saw the strain from Dante when he blocked the bullets with sword? He did well especially for the guy who uses a broadsword which is heavier than katana.
2. Cutting through building with sword. Wow, exept from the fact that the same feat to some extent was performed by 18 years old Dante in the first volume of DMC3 manga which is canon prequel to the third game.
3. DMC3 Dante is a noob version- 19years old beginner but with a few impressive speed feats (running down the wall at Max speeds, for example). Also Dante didn't took it too serious when he fought Vergil for the first time- he saw that as the continuation of their childhood sparrings where more concentrated Vergil tended to pwn his lil'bro.
4. High jumps- look at some fights from DMC2 and see how good is Dante at his prime in that (notably the one when he fights a living skyscraper monster).

The material people are reffering to there can be found in Dante's respect thread.

That post reminds me of Emma Frost with the whole 'darling' thing.

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
That post reminds me of Emma Frost with the whole 'darling' thing. She prolly does it on purpose, she says it alot lol.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Lol, Scarlet Witch is a potential omniversal level reality warper(and has done it in HoM), Dante is nothing to her. Unless you meant the Pandora's Box's power derives from probability.

Yes. Randomly altering probability in Dante's vicinity, working much like classic Scarlet Witch's hexes. I didn't mean to compare him to HOM Scarlet Witch.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Lol, Scarlet Witch is a potential omniversal level reality warper(and has done it in HoM), Dante is nothing to her. Unless you meant the Pandora's Box's power derives from probability.

When Scarlet Witch was a regular avengers member, she wasnt aware of her true powers and all she did was hexes that had % probabilitys of working, i think thats what he meant

Originally posted by Terryc250
When Scarlet Witch was a regular avengers member, she wasnt aware of her true powers and all she did was hexes that had % probabilitys of working, i think thats what he meant

I'm a lady, but that's what I mean.

I'm not trying to tell that Dante is a high level reality warper- and back when I said REALLY STUPID THING, I was orienting at the Blackheart, but being able to beat someone don't necessary means you're at the same power class. Dante is a low herald, maybe mid herald in terms of powers, that's all. I'm not as obsessed with him as you are with Pyron. The powers of Pandora Box are alike to classic Scarlet Witch (pre-HOM, the one who was limited to said hexes) or even Domino- enemies start shooting each other instead of Dante, get disarmed randomly etc. Not to mention that that power, like time manipulation, is limited by the line of sight.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
I'm a lady, but that's what I mean.

I'm not trying to tell that Dante is a high level reality warper- and back when I said REALLY STUPID THING, I was orienting at the Blackheart, but being able to beat someone don't necessary means you're at the same power class. Dante is a low herald, maybe mid herald in terms of powers, that's all. I'm not as obsessed with him as you are with Pyron. The powers of Pandora Box are alike to classic Scarlet Witch (pre-HOM, the one who was limited to said hexes) or even Domino- enemies start shooting each other instead of Dante, get disarmed randomly etc. Not to mention that that power, like time manipulation, is limited by the line of sight.

Im not obsessed with Pyron... and i know Dante doesnt warp reality, regular scarlet witch didnt exactly warp reality either.. i know how her powers worked.. she did hexes with % probabilities, it wasnt until she went crazy that ppl realized it was reality warping, i wouldnt put dante in a mid herald lvl, or even herald lvl, i dont think galactus would have any use of him lol, hes more of a very high street lvler, like a powerful fast wolverine or somethin.

cloud in a sword fight wins...
hes faster than dante (zack could doge machine gun bullets without trying, and cloud is faster than zack)
they have about the same strength (if we can count those scans of dante canon)
they have equal agility..
cloud has better sword technique (he outclassed loz and yazoo with his sword, and face it, and they would be both as fast as dane)

Originally posted by MadMel
cloud in a sword fight wins...
hes faster than dante (zack could doge machine gun bullets without trying, and cloud is faster than zack)
they have about the same strength (if we can count those scans of dante canon)
they have equal agility..
cloud has better sword technique (he outclassed loz and yazoo with his sword, and face it, and they would be both as fast as dane)

Clean cutting buildings structures > Cracking a roof
Cloud is stronger

i lol at Dante for Herald level but anyway, this pandoras box thing sounds interesting, enemies start fighting eachother? sounds like Kains inspire hate.....their copying Kain onto Dante Kain gona get angry and break girly man

Originally posted by Terryc250
Clean cutting buildings structures > Cracking a roof
Cloud is stronger Wow, this "zomfg, Cloud can destroy parts of RUINED building structures!" is seriously getting on my nerves, not only is it not very impressive but to exclude the fact that they're ruins is just too much. Not to mention Dante "cracked" (Have you even looked at the scans?) the whole office , again, from a distance , the fact that that was pre-DMC3 Dante and that he did that by accident (judging from his reaction. Cloud needs Limit breaks to do that and lets not forget his office was in pretty good shape before that. And just because you can cut pieces of ruins doesn't mean you're omgwtf strong, it could also mean your sword is just heavy enough to just smash them apart or that it's sharp as hell. So why jump to the conclusion that Cloud is super strong because of that?

BTW, Sol Valentine, which sword is Dante using in this fight? Should we assume it's Rebellion?
Originally posted by Terryc250
But Cloud > Ruins in a swordfight..
^ That's about all you bring to the table, that and how he pwned two somewhat inexperienced brats which according to Mel means he's got superior techniques, yeah, I don't buy that, Dante can master any weapon in a matter of seconds and Rebellion's been in his possession since, what? DMC3? Now he can throw energy attacks with it like it's nothing and let's not forget his telekinetic power with it, some of you may know what I'm talking about.

Yeah, let me tell about Dante's done.

DMC3: Slayed an demon army, kicked his brother's arse ( who's near teleport-fast, not much unlike his lill'bro ).
DMC2: Eh, didn't like that game that much, so I don't remember.
DMC: Slayed an demon army again, beat his brother again, banished Mundus.
DMC4: We'll see in february-ish, won't we?


Alright, I'm done.

Originally posted by Raijin
Wow, this "zomfg, Cloud can destroy parts of RUINED building structures!" is seriously getting on my nerves, not only is it not very impressive but to exclude the fact that they're ruins is just too much. Not to mention Dante "cracked" (Have you even looked at the scans?) the whole office , again, from a distance , the fact that that was pre-DMC3 Dante and that he did that by accident (judging from his reaction. Cloud needs Limit breaks to do that and lets not forget his office was in pretty good shape before that. And just because you can cut pieces of ruins doesn't mean you're omgwtf strong, it could also mean your sword is just heavy enough to just smash them apart or that it's sharp as hell. So why jump to the conclusion that Cloud is super strong because of that?

BTW, Sol Valentine, which sword is Dante using in this fight? Should we assume it's Rebellion?

^ That's about all you bring to the table, that and how he pwned two somewhat inexperienced brats which according to Mel means he's got superior techniques, yeah, I don't buy that, Dante can master any weapon in a matter of seconds and Rebellion's been in his possession since, what? DMC3? Now he can throw energy attacks with it like it's nothing and let's not forget his telekinetic power with it, some of you may know what I'm talking about.

Yeah, let me tell about Dante's done.

DMC3: Slayed an demon army, kicked his brother's arse ( who's near teleport-fast, not much unlike his lill'bro ).
DMC2: Eh, didn't like that game that much, so I don't remember.
DMC: Slayed an demon army again, beat his brother again, banished Mundus.
DMC4: We'll see in february-ish, won't we?


Alright, I'm done.

No he cuts through the structures like air, dante cracked a roof..

Ruins? You mean the parts of the cracked roof falling on the ground? Those comics arent even DMC canon, he attacked from a distance? Big deal, if Cloud blade beamed that roof, the roof would be half gone. Cloud, handles a sword that is most likely atleast 300 lb's like a feather, jumps around like the Hulk, when Pre-nibelheim Sephiroth and Genesis sparred, just their sword impact caved in the canon below them, ppl agree that Cloud is atleast this strength since Genesis got killed by Zack, and Cloud > Zack

watch at 3:29
fXGZd1nMaI4

Dante killed Dante killed an army demons? I hope ur not referring to those small demons at the beginning of the game.. throughout FFVII Cloud kills hundreds of giant dragons and monsters, in AC he cut down a building sized bahamut..

Zack easily dodged many many soldiers holding machine guns, dodged all the bullets easily, Cloud has all of Zack's skill and more, Cloud took on Yazoo and Loz(who blinks around faster then Dante)

Two inexperience brats? The SHM are aspects of Sephiroth, who would own Dante quite easily.

And dont try to make it seem like just little pieces, actually watch the video from 2:45 to 4:05, dont stop when he starts cutting the small pieces then think thats all he cuts, look at how big/thick the big pieces are and how easily he cuts them, you dont think that takes strength? Those structures are alot thicker then a small office rooftop, because those concrete structures are made to hold lots of heavy things, and you think it doesnt take strength to launch urself upwards from just two swords? While slicing everything in ur way without losing momentum?
Nvdv55TQcCw

Lol No. It was beam slashes as you can see. Just wow. Also @ cloud sword weighing 300lbs,. The weight was never specified. That sword at that size i have seen weigh arounnd 100lbs-to 150lbs at my local boutique sword shop. So yeah.

Originally posted by Burning thought
i lol at Dante for Herald level but anyway, this pandoras box thing sounds interesting, enemies start fighting eachother? sounds like Kains inspire hate.....their copying Kain onto Dante Kain gona get angry and break girly man

Inspire Hate doesn't disarm enemies randomly, nor it generates whatever firearm\long-range weapon its user needs

Originally posted by Terryc250
No he cuts through the structures like air, dante cracked a roof..

Ruins? You mean the parts of the cracked roof falling on the ground? Those comics arent even DMC canon, he attacked from a distance? Big deal, if Cloud blade beamed that roof, the roof would be half gone. Cloud, handles a sword that is most likely atleast 300 lb's like a feather, jumps around like the Hulk, when Pre-nibelheim Sephiroth and Genesis sparred, just their sword impact caved in the canon below them, ppl agree that Cloud is atleast this strength since Genesis got killed by Zack, and Cloud > Zack

watch at 3:29
fXGZd1nMaI4

Dante killed Dante killed an army demons? I hope ur not referring to those small demons at the beginning of the game.. throughout FFVII Cloud kills hundreds of giant dragons and monsters, in AC he cut down a building sized bahamut..

Zack easily dodged many many soldiers holding machine guns, dodged all the bullets easily, Cloud has all of Zack's skill and more, Cloud took on Yazoo and Loz(who blinks around faster then Dante)

Two inexperience brats? The SHM are aspects of Sephiroth, who would own Dante quite easily.

And dont try to make it seem like just little pieces, actually watch the video from 2:45 to 4:05, dont stop when he starts cutting the small pieces then think thats all he cuts, look at how big/thick the big pieces are and how easily he cuts them, you dont think that takes strength? Those structures are alot thicker then a small office rooftop, because those concrete structures are made to hold lots of heavy things, and you think it doesnt take strength to launch urself upwards from just two swords? While slicing everything in ur way without losing momentum?
Nvdv55TQcCw

Dante cracking his office accidentely, when performing a kata after bad nightmare>>> Cloud destroying something using limit breaks. As far as swordfight goes. And if we count Limit Breaks, we can as well use maaany interesting stuff for Dante.

Limit breaks are just a gameplay mechanic name, in the actual movie blade beam was something cloud can do easily with little effort

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Yes. Randomly altering probability in Dante's vicinity, working much like classic Scarlet Witch's hexes. I didn't mean to compare him to HOM Scarlet Witch. Alright, that makes sense. And I am the one obsessed with Pyron!

Dante would be good at low-mid Herald IMO.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No he cuts through the structures like air, dante cracked a roof..

Ruins? You mean the parts of the cracked roof falling on the ground? Those comics arent even DMC canon, he attacked from a distance? Big deal, if Cloud blade beamed that roof, the roof would be half gone. Cloud, handles a sword that is most likely atleast 300 lb's like a feather, jumps around like the Hulk, when Pre-nibelheim Sephiroth and Genesis sparred, just their sword impact caved in the canon below them, ppl agree that Cloud is atleast this strength since Genesis got killed by Zack, and Cloud > Zack

watch at 3:29
fXGZd1nMaI4

Dante killed Dante killed an army demons? I hope ur not referring to those small demons at the beginning of the game.. throughout FFVII Cloud kills hundreds of giant dragons and monsters, in AC he cut down a building sized bahamut..

Zack easily dodged many many soldiers holding machine guns, dodged all the bullets easily, Cloud has all of Zack's skill and more, Cloud took on Yazoo and Loz(who blinks around faster then Dante)

Two inexperience brats? The SHM are aspects of Sephiroth, who would own Dante quite easily.

And dont try to make it seem like just little pieces, actually watch the video from 2:45 to 4:05, dont stop when he starts cutting the small pieces then think thats all he cuts, look at how big/thick the big pieces are and how easily he cuts them, you dont think that takes strength? Those structures are alot thicker then a small office rooftop, because those concrete structures are made to hold lots of heavy things, and you think it doesnt take strength to launch urself upwards from just two swords? While slicing everything in ur way without losing momentum?
Nvdv55TQcCw
I think you deliberately misunderstand me plus you've missed most of my points, read my post again. I think you're exaggerating a tad, he didn't exactly launch himself upwards, launch = one big jump, if you look closely you see his legs moving meaning he DID lose momentum and had to keep jumping to make up for it and PLEASE stop calling parts that, well, clearly are parts, structures. A structure is an whole building and the one cutting structures was Seph (don't get the two confused, it's not like they're Dante and Nero) who clearly lost for toying a bit too much. But sure, Cloud's good at making big jumps, but how exactly is that helping him in this fight? He's not fighting a constantly flying opponent. And I can't believe you're still denying they're ruins and that you've excluded the fact that he had help killing Bahamut. Also, what small demons? And what game? PLEASE be less specific. There were hardly any small demons. Also, Yazoo and Loz don't blink and they're definitely not any faster than Dante or his brother, have you even seen his Trickster skills or his tower dive (which I'll say AGAIN, was in DMC3, when he was young and inexperienced)? I doubt it. How about you watch the Argosax fight again? To your "throwing up the sword was a distraction"-argument about that vid; That "distraction" clearly failed, Argosax wasn't even looking at it so there's not much suggesting that it was a distraction and Dante clearly disappeared and reappeared almost instantly, now THAT is blinking.

It's my opinion that in pure sword play Cloud is gonna bust up Dante big time.

Dante only beats Cloud when you bring in the other elements

Originally posted by Raijin
I think you deliberately misunderstand me plus you've missed most of my points, read my post again. I think you're exaggerating a tad, he didn't exactly launch himself upwards, launch = one big jump, if you look closely you see his legs moving meaning he DID lose momentum and had to keep jumping to make up for it and PLEASE stop calling parts that, well, clearly are parts, structures. A structure is an whole building and the one cutting structures was Seph (don't get the two confused, it's not like they're Dante and Nero) who clearly lost for toying a bit too much. But sure, Cloud's good at making big jumps, but how exactly is that helping him in this fight? He's not fighting a constantly flying opponent. And I can't believe you're still denying they're ruins and that you've excluded the fact that he had help killing Bahamut. Also, what small demons? And what game? PLEASE be less specific. There were hardly any small demons. Also, Yazoo and Loz don't blink and they're definitely not any faster than Dante or his brother, have you even seen his Trickster skills or his tower dive (which I'll say AGAIN, was in DMC3, when he was young and inexperienced)? I doubt it. How about you watch the Argosax fight again? To your "throwing up the sword was a distraction"-argument about that vid; That "distraction" clearly failed, Argosax wasn't even looking at it so there's not much suggesting that it was a distraction and Dante clearly disappeared and reappeared almost instantly, now THAT is blinking.

Are you slow minded or something? The point we were talking about was Clouds strength, do you know why the Hulk can jump so high/far? Its because hes got alot of strength to launch himself

the demons at the beginning of DMC3


LOL are u trying to say hes jumping while hes in the air? He launched himself off his swords, and whatever he does with his legs doesnt make a difference once hes airbourne already.

Ive seen Dante and Vergil fights, and theyre not as fast as ppl make them out to be

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You cant even tell where hes looking, because you cant even see his freakin face but the camera angle (focused on the sword) suggest he looked at it, then he looks right, then left, then turns around and theres Dante.. doesnt show his movement speed it shows his stealthiness more then anything

Show me Dante faster then this

watch at 3:45 (its Cloud while he was diseased btw)
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watch at 2:10 (notice she doesnt even have time to change her facial expression)
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show me Dante faster then that, and not him going offscreen then back onscreen 10 seconds later.. btw what does a building dive have to do with speed?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel

Dante's first fight with Vergil on top on Temen-Ni-Gri tower where Vergil (a halfdemon himself and a little better swordsman than his brother (though when Dante gets serious and fights with determination to win, Vergil eventually loses) seriously wounds Dante, thus awakening his demonic power. The brothers literally play tennis with bullets (bullets get deflected\cut in midair), as well as fight so fast that they slash raindrops around them.
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After that fight Dante desides to pursuit his bro. First he destroys a column with a Kenshiro-style punch ,making it explode from inside (though he uses his demonic energy instead of regular chi), then he runs down the wall demonstrating great agility, skills, smart fighting, as well as his best running feat in human form (runs faster than a speeding bullet in human form, probably at Max2-3 as air around him starts burning because of friction). In the end he almost flies... and gets swallowed by demonic flying whale Leviathan, so he has to travel through the behemoth's body from his stomach to his heart and kill him from inside.
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Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Dante vs Nefasturris (DMC2)

As i've promised, Dante vs skyscraper monster.
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Gameplay fight (DMD level of difficulty)
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The second one includes pretty high jumps, if you wish.

And Raijin, the sword trick was performed on Despair Embodied *the demonic embodiment of all the despair in the univerce*, not on Argosax.

Most of this has already been said, but I feel like commenting myself.

1) Yes, they were ruins. Cloud was cutting apart pieces of Shinra HQ. Shinra HQ was hit with Diamond WEAPON's attacks, was nearly destroyed when Hojo attempted to fire the Sister Ray a second time, was directly under Meteor during Meteorfall, and went under no known maintenance for two years before the battle in Advent Children. Cloud and Seph are lucky that the thing was still standing for them to have a climactic final duel on in the first place.

2) Dante is freakishly durable. The only way that it's "over in one hit" is if Cloud decapitates him. Even then, it depends on the sword. Seeing as Dante's regeneration seems to kick in as soon as whatever did the damage is no longer obstructing the skin, Cloud would have to perform the decapitation with a blade wide enough to finish cutting all the way through before leaving the entrance of the wound. He has several blades that are wide enough for that, but only for a decapitation.

3) The fact that Cloud was fighting Sephiroth is irrelevant. He wasn't matching Seph's strength, he was getting his ass kicked up and down the street. The creators have even confirmed that Sephiroth wasn't showing any effort, even referring to Cloud as "outmatched" at least once. Saying that he fought Sephiroth doesn't help prove his abilities. It allowed him to display some of his abilities, but simply saying that he fought someone as strong as Sephiroth doesn't matter, seeing as he was losing. Badly.

4) Dante didn't just crack the roof. I could crack the roof. He left a huge gash in the (seemingly concrete) ceiling that was longer and wider than the blade, and it was done unintentionally while he was basically going through the forms. If Dante "cracked the roof," then Cloud "cut a few metal scraps".

5) Cloud isn't faster than Zack. Stop using Zack as a speed feat. Loz, I can understand. Zack, no. We haven't seen anything from Cloud displaying speed on Zack's level in any of his fights. It's even debatable whether or not Cloud is superior to Zack, considering recent material. As for Loz...Cloud rarely kept up with him. In most of their encounters, when Loz started using that speed (When he leaves a blue trail), he was almost always ahead of Cloud.

6) Cloud can't just use limits like Bladebeam whenever he wants. He still has to fight to build spirit energy (That would be the blue energy that surrounds his blade whenever he performs a limit). That's why he doesn't just spam the things.

Originally posted by Keollyn
Quite the fallacy there. You have proof that Cloud and Sephiroth would mimic Vergil and Dante's rain feat?



Silly rabbit, proof is for kids.

Lol even if ur speculations of the buildings were true, it doesnt mean theyre going to be using cheap and weak materials to rebuild it lol

Yes but he still gets KO'd for awhile with a stab, even if Clouds sword doesnt go all the way through Dante wouldnt be moving around with that would and Cloud will have plenty of time to finish the job.

He was holding his own even though Sephiroth was toying of course, his sword in hand wasnt getting knocked around much like Zacks against Sephiroths, Dante couldnt keep his sword in his hand against Vergil.

First off the comic isnt even cannon, and whatever the material is, its not that thick as you can see the piece on the ground, its also being held up by wood, the chunk Cloud cut easier then paper is almost as wide as Cloud himself of concrete.

The point i brought up Loz is that ppl always claim "Dante is waaay to fast for Cloud to handle" yet Loz has faster movement speed then Dante IMO and Cloud can handle him.

He can do it easily, Blade beam is a low limit break, Cloud was spamming limit breaks left and right against Bahamut, when he fought Loz/Yazoo, when Loz launched that ground wave at Cloud, Cloud still had time to block bullets and take a second to shoot that blade beam at the wave.

Some jumping feats, against from underaged noob version of Dante (DMC3 manga is canon to DMC series, as a prequel of third game showing us 18years old Dante, also it partially serves as a retcon to the first novel, showing that Dante posed as Tony Redgrave only in some period between 10 and 18, maybe being raised\adopted by some mercenary(Enzo?)).

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
As a part of his mission Dante ruins some demonic teaparty (the whole mission looks like a play based on Alice in Wonderland). During that he gets bitten by vampire posing as Mad Hatter...and is back to normal in a few seconds.

That's the first part when Dante learns that the kid he was hired to find in fact is a demonic "Alice".
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6797/pg4041vv3.th.jpghttp://img204.imageshack.us/img204/446/pg4243ab8.th.jpghttp://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4582/pg4445ys0.th.jpghttp://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4681/pg4647px8.th.jpghttp://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4982/pg4849wk3.th.jpghttp://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6360/pg57cm5.th.jpghttp://img113.imageshack.us/img113/993/pg5859ca4.th.jpghttp://img507.imageshack.us/img507/428/pg6061gg1.th.jpghttp://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2526/pg6263ld4.th.jpg

As you see, jumps way beyond even the Olympic champions' capabilities are nothing special for Dante.

so...what is Cloud gonna do ?
stab Dante ?

1) It's not speculation. It's fact. Everything I said about them was blatantly displayed in the games. Diamond's attack caused damage because we see several shots blow the crap out of the President's floor. We know that the Sister Ray was causing damage because the entire point of stopping Hojo was to stop him from destroying Midgar through repeated firing. Shinra HQ is the tallest building in Midgar, and we see Meteor battle with Holy and the Lifestream directly above it...It even shows the top of the building taking damage.

2) They didn't use weak materials to rebuild it. They didn't use any materials to rebuild it. Midgar was abandoned after Meteor. Midgar's population at the time of Advent Children: Cloud. And until he went there (Presumably a few months before AC, based on Case of Tifa), there wasn't anyone.





...He gets KO'd for a while with a stab? Have you seen the opening of DMC3? One of Dante's weakest known forms shoves off stabs like scratches. In DMC1, he wasn't just stabbed, he was pinned to the ground, hence the incredibly short KO...And he wasn't even in a combat situation. The only other times he's been KO'd with a stab are when he's been taking an excessive amount of damage, or when Mundus hit him with those...Things...Which appeared to be some kind of magical thing, so they don't really influence what happens when he's stabbed with a sword.




He was holding his own? He was on the offensive maybe two times in the entire fight, and was being pushed back in every other. And you're right, his sword wasn't getting knocked around as much as Zack's...he was getting knocked around.




And again, Cloud doesn't handle him. He handles Loz when he moves normally. He barely ever keeps up with Loz when he's using his speed. Honestly, Loz tends to bat him around when he's using his "warp" speed.




1) He can't easily do Bladebeam, seeing as he only uses it twice in the entire film, both of which were after a period of intense fighting (One of which while weakened by Geostigma and depression).

2) Cloud was "spamming limit breaks left and right against Bahamut"? He used two of them, and one was after Aerith used what appears to be Fury Brand (She grabs his hand, and you see strands of Lifestream pass from her arm into his, then he uses a higher-level limit despite not having fought between then and the last one). The Spirit Energy appearing =/= Performing a limit. The Spirit Energy appearing = Charging Spirit Energy.

3) Yes, and he used a single limit a single time in that entire fight. Having time to block bullets and still having the time to shoot of the beam doesn't have anything to do with how long he has to fight to build the energy for the attack. The time it takes to perform an attack =/= the time it takes to prepare an attack. Barret's cannon fires the blast in a split second. It takes him several to charge it. Vincent's Cerberus takes a split second to fire a bullet. It takes a few seconds to load. Cloud's limits may only take small periods of time to perform, but that doesn't mean they take less time to build the energy for.

A list of Cloud's limits in AC:

- Braver: Against Bahamut after an intense fight. Used once in the film.

- Bladebeam: Against Loz during an intense fight while weakened, against Sephiroth in the middle of his most intense fight in the movie. Used twice in the film.

- Climhazzard: Against Bahamut, after Aerith's Fury Brand. Used once in the film.

- Finishing Touch: Against Kadaj, after a rather lengthy fight. Used once in the film.

- Omnislash Version Five: Against Sephiroth, at the end of his most intense fight in the movie as well as with a lot of drive due to Seph's threats. Used once in the film.

He used a total of six limits in the entire movie. Two of them were in his most intense fight of the story (Sephiroth), one of them was after an intense fight while weakened, one of them was near the end of his fight with Bahamut, one of them was at the end of a rather lengthy and moderately intense fight with Kadaj, and one was after Aerith used what appears to be Fury Brand (Based on an understanding of how Spirit Energy works with Cloud's limits). How exactly did he "spam" them at all?

Notice the way he removes Alastor, given the form of a blade he's ripping out his own heart while he's doing that- so he's bound to be weakened for a few seconds after that and that's what we see. And immediately after that he performs cool kata showing off a speed burst ability of Alastor in addition to his natural speed (though lightning speed=/= speed of real lightning, falling shards around him appear to be suspended in the air during that feat even though he didn't use any time control abilities (and the thing that gives you access to those abilities in the 1st game, Bangle of Time, can be found in the mission 21 as a reward for the last of the secret missions (time manip in 1st game doesn't work on major bosses exept for first appearances of Nero Angelo))).

why are you keep on comparing cloud with the noob version of Dante in DMC3? as we know in DMC3, Dante just a kid that was still fresh on fighting. Vergil might have knocked off Dante's sword, but he killed Vergil in the end. And bout his speed, Dante can blink means teleport. if Dante and Cloud clashes together, Dante can just fools Cloud by blinking.

and about Dante's strenght, he can destroyed the 1st hell gate with one small punch, play DMC4 and you will know how fast and strong Dante was.

4 years.

DMC3 Dante was used as it was one/two months before 4 and his other feats were unknown then.

The fact is that you can use the weakest version (Manga/Pre-awakening Date who < even DMC3 Dante) and he would still beat Cloud. Near equal strength by this point, much faster and has the soak and regen to take anything Cloud has to offer.

Well I love Dante more a lot than the Fenrir Guy.
But in this term, I would give a chance for Cloud.
He's more expert in sword Combat.
He even defeated Sephiroth who's more stronger than the demon Dante.
So it's straight that Cloud will win this

Originally posted by No End N Site
Have you seen the fight between Dante and Virgil?

Dante is light years ahead of Cloud in speed and Dante aint weak either especially if he is allowed Devil Trigger.

Another Fanboy of Dante Mehhh...
Talking bout speed, He just defeated Sephiroth who's also fast as lightning.
I already played DMC where Dante was just slow as a slug.

Originally posted by Hanaoka
Well I love Dante more a lot than the Fenrir Guy.
But in this term, I would give a chance for Cloud.
He's more expert in sword Combat.
He even defeated Sephiroth who's more stronger than the demon Dante.
So it's straight that Cloud will win this
More of an expert because....?

Cloud has been using a sword for 8 years to Dante's 25.

Cloud's skills are approaching Sephs, with Swordplay alone Dante easily defeated a demon sword wielder who has been with blade for 2000 years.

Sephiroth would honestly lose to Nero..

Originally posted by Hanaoka
Another Fanboy of Dante Mehhh...
Talking bout speed, He just defeated Sephiroth who's also fast as lightning.
I already played DMC where Dante was just slow as a slug.
Seph is nowhere close to lightning speed, he'd only low hypersonic, Mach 5+.

At his weakest Dante was still over 2-3 times faster. Actually Seph's speed is comparable to to Nero's

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Dante is faster, stronger, more durable, has regen, has better techniques/abilities and gets stronger in Devil Trigger.

Take away Dante's weapons and he's still win this.

Originally posted by BloodRain
More of an expert because....?

Cloud has been using a sword for 8 years to Dante's 25.

Cloud's skills are approaching Sephs, with Swordplay alone Dante easily defeated a demon sword wielder who has been with blade for 2000 years.

Sephiroth would honestly lose to Nero..


Seph is nowhere close to lightning speed, he'd only low hypersonic, Mach 5+.

At his weakest Dante was still over 2-3 times faster. Actually Seph's speed is comparable to to Nero's

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Dante is faster, stronger, more durable, has regen, has better techniques/abilities and gets stronger in Devil Trigger.

Take away Dante's weapons and he's still win this.

When I play DMC, Dante is not that fast. He's more like a slug. I hardly dodge attacks from many kind of enemies.
Look, Sephiroth killed a dragon with one blow. Dante uses 1 million bullets + 1 thousands slashes to kill a dog like Cerberus.
Sephiroth in KH are super fast more than Dante.

What so fast about Dante ? which part of the game shows his fastness ? I already play DMC 1 -4 and it only shows a second of his speed while sephiroth shows more speed than Dante

You're using gameplay mechanics. In the game Sonic the hedgehog doest appear to be moving that fast and gets hit by slow things all the time. Yet we know hes supersonic. Cutscenes > mechanics.

Killing the dragon, who Im pretty sure was a snake, means absolutely nothing and was also off screen. And you're using gameplay mechanics again. You took apparently millions of attacks to chip the dogs health down. Do you know how Dante did it? When playing Crisis Core it took several hits to beat a normal guard with a sword? Does that mean Zack is physically weaker than me? No.

False. His speed was calced as Mach 5 low end and Mach 15 high end. Meaning at best he's about the speed as Dante at his weakest. More importantly is that his appearance in KH is non-canon so the feats from there do not count.


Speed feats DMC3, aka Dante at his weakest:
-Dante matching a Uzi's bullets with his gun the instant it fires, Mach 7-12 reactions.
-Vergil moving so fast the Abyss move in slow-motion, Mach 11.
-Both of them moving so fast that the falling rain looks like its frozen, Mach 15+.
-Dante running faster than his thrown sword, that was burning up the air with its friction via speed, in order to catch it, Mach 10-20+.


Sephiroth: Faster than Zack who dodges many machine gun fire, Mach 5+. Thats his only speed feat.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You're using gameplay mechanics. In the game Sonic the hedgehog doest appear to be moving that fast and gets hit by slow things all the time. Yet we know hes supersonic. Cutscenes > mechanics.

Killing the dragon, who Im pretty sure was a snake, means absolutely nothing and was also off screen. And you're using gameplay mechanics again. You took apparently millions of attacks to chip the dogs health down. Do you know how Dante did it? When playing Crisis Core it took several hits to beat a normal guard with a sword? Does that mean Zack is physically weaker than me? No.

False. His speed was calced as Mach 5 low end and Mach 15 high end. Meaning at best he's about the speed as Dante at his weakest. More importantly is that his appearance in KH is non-canon so the feats from there do not count.


Speed feats DMC3, aka Dante at his weakest:
-Dante matching a Uzi's bullets with his gun the instant it fires, Mach 7-12 reactions.
-Vergil moving so fast the Abyss move in slow-motion, Mach 11.
-Both of them moving so fast that the falling rain looks like its frozen, Mach 15+.
-Dante running faster than his thrown sword, that was burning up the air with its friction via speed, in order to catch it, Mach 10-20+.


Sephiroth: Faster than Zack who dodges many machine gun fire, Mach 5+. Thats his only speed feat.

At least that's the fact I'm telling you. The game mechanics shows the fact.
As long I played DMC series, I never though Dante could beat Sephiroth. In a matter of speed, the speed of a blink of an eye ?
Sephiroth can do that to.
And about Nero, How could you compare him with Sephiroth while his ass just beaten by the old man ?

These arent facts, they're things to allow you to play the game. The cutscenes are the facts. By this Kratos is pretty damn weak as he takes a while to beat the simplest of enemies. Also Cloud is really slow right? I mean when I play FF7 he runs around really slow he takes tons of slashes to kill human guards? Guess that means I can beat Cloud, right?

Well thats your opinion, Ive given the facts. Dante has casual feats above Seph, this is not an opinion.


How can I compare him to Nero? Quite easily. Nero is as fast as Seph, far far stronger and can transform into a more powerful form.

Originally posted by BloodRain
These arent facts, they're things to allow you to play the game. The cutscenes are the facts. By this Kratos is pretty damn weak as he takes a while to beat the simplest of enemies. Also Cloud is really slow right? I mean when I play FF7 he runs around really slow he takes tons of slashes to kill human guards? Guess that means I can beat Cloud, right?

Well thats your opinion, Ive given the facts. Dante has casual feats above Seph, this is not an opinion.


How can I compare him to Nero? Quite easily. Nero is as fast as Seph, far far stronger and can transform into a more powerful form.

Yeah you can beat Cloud
But Dante can't

Funny thing is, Dante fought a giant statue in the very last of DMC 4. and it's a big thread for him.
While Kratos fought that kind of thing at the very beginning of GoW 2.

See The difference ?

Plus, Sparda died protect the world from all DEMONS
While Kratos just passed that killing all The GODS

GOD > DEMONS

So Me > Dante, Seph and Kratos? Cool, I'm God tier...


1. Savior > Rhodes. 2. Titles mean nothing 3. Not a GoW thread.


Cloud and Seph are both weaker and slower than Nero. Unless you have something to say otherwise, concede.

Originally posted by BloodRain
So Me > Dante, Seph and Kratos? Cool, I'm God tier...


1. Savior > Rhodes. 2. Titles mean nothing 3. Not a GoW thread.


Cloud and Seph are both weaker and slower than Nero. Unless you have something to say otherwise, concede.

and it's my turn

Kratos & Sephiroth & Cloud > Dante & Nero

So that's that

Kay, prove it with feats.

BloodRain I have proved Kratos is better than Dante on countless occasions.

Cloud however, probably isn't.

Not that I agree with that, but I was asking him to prove the Cloud and Seph part.

Originally posted by Hanaoka
I hardly dodge attacks from many kind of enemies.

Dont Blame Dante for this. Blame yourself

What's going on so far, i don't want to read... this thread amuses me. xD

Nothing since the bump changes or adds anything to the thread :I


Cloud is like Dante without the physically stats, abilities or hax.

ahh

I was told that Omnislash was a spiritual attack based on the following

"When your spirit energy rises to its ultimate limit, for a short while it aligns with and emits from your body."

"When the limit is reached, his sword is imbued with fighting spirit from the heart for just a moment."

Thoughts

Heard this a lot but never saw the quote. To me it sounds like Cloud's charging his attack with his raised energy/spirit/fighting spirit, it didn't say anything about effecting the opponents spirit.


Wish I was here when FF fans were all over the place :/

Originally posted by BloodRain
To me it sounds like Cloud's charging his attack with his raised energy/spirit/fighting spirit, it didn't say anything about effecting the opponents spirit.


Wish I was here when FF fans were all over the place :/

I said the exact same thing.