Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins.

I want to say Sam, but I am not sure

Well Sam is good, but Snake is better. Snake 6.5/10

When it comes to actual skills, I would give it to Sam. However, is Snake not some geneticly manipulated soldier or something?

Snake is a clone of the greatest (though that might be The Boss) soldier of the 20th century, Big Boss.

This thread has been made countless times.

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
This thread has been made countless times.
Cause it's the most epic showdown ever.

Originally posted by Furion
Cause it's the most epic showdown ever.

It is a one-shot kill. An epic showdown would be Master Chief Vs. Samus. An epic showdown would be Nightmare Vs. Sigfried. An epic showdown would be Bing Vs. Bong.

This is a one-shot kill

but these guys would probably have to sneak up on the other.

Originally posted by Furion
Cause it's the most epic showdown ever.

Well, it might be closed.

Snake, very easily.

How can it be easy? He is dealing with the top agent of Third Echelon. The best soldier in the world (And stealth soldier for that matter). He is a 40 year old man in his prime, as physically capable as a person can be at his age. He is fast, agile and strong.

From what I know, Snake is good but will in no way kill Sam EASY.

One-on-one, Snake kicks Sam's ass nine ways to sunday. And also, Lady Fox, Sam Fisher is in his fifties and is hardly what I'd call in his prime. Snake is aging at an accellorated rate, but that's stopping him even less.

Is he not in his early 40's in the first game?
He is very well trained and about as physically capable as a man can be in his age. As long as they do not encounter eachother eye-to-eye, Sam would have the advantage in my opinion.

Snake wins easily he see's those guys lights and fires a rocket towards it.

That guys lights will allow him to see Snake before Snake sees him.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Snake wins easily he see's those guys lights and fires a rocket towards it.

Fisher needs a shit load of gadgets and goodies to get through his missions. Snake goes in virtually item-less and is expected to complete the mission.

Snake>>> Sam.

Why does needing gadgets matter? And no he doesn't.

I beat most of the game without using most of the gadgets to me. I only used the pistol and night vision on occasion.

Originally posted by grey fox
Fisher needs a shit load of gadgets and goodies to get through his missions. Snake goes in virtually item-less and is expected to complete the mission.

Snake>>> Sam.

Define "Shit-load". He uses a pair of googles and a gun mostly. What does it matter if he use those or not anyway? He accomplish his mission and that is what is important. Does he have less skills, simply because he is better equipped?


Kazenji said Snake has rockets. I for a fact happen to know he also has sniper rifle.
Sam Fisher uses neither of the two and still has completed missions, so who is it that goes in with more items again?

And lets not forget: Sam Fisher knows Omega Punch Strike


85obswbIOno

look at what sam has gone up against, then compare it to what SNAKE {and big boss} have gone up against. no comparison, snake shudnt be in the HUMAN range, he will rip fisher a new one.

The question is not who one has gone up against.

Spyro the dragon has gone up against mighty black magiciants and Sam Fisher has only fought other humans. That does not mean he can not beat Spyro simply because he has never fought a mighty black magiciant.


Basing an argument on which foes that has been encountered is unprofessional and vague. There is nothing that says Sam Fisher could not pull trough what Snake has pulled trough.

^simply untrue. you can VERY well judge the strength of characters by the foes they have defeated. snake BLOWS fisher out of the water. fisher has nuthing on snake.

and ur delusional if you think that SAM FISHER can beat spyro. spyro will one shot kill him and all the characters in his tiny world.

I simply brought up the first example I could think of and even though I think he would beat Spyro, I will debate that here. I could very well have picked Super Mario and a mushroom. Sam Fisher has never fought a mushroom and you can not judge the outcome of Sam Fisher Vs. Mario on a mushroom battle.

How do you judge it trough that? What has Snake shown in those battles that put him so much higher up on the ladder than Sam? Has he survived a bullet to the head? If he has, then Snake could very well win this.

Because from the view I see it, this battle is judged by ONE bullet. As far as I am aware, Sam is better than Snake at stealth, which gives him that advantage. He is also a very acrobatic person, which gives him another asset.

Snake is gonna pwn all the people in Suber Smash Bros Brawl.
Snake has faced way worse then Sam. Big Boss alone has faced: The Dead, A guy who controls a swarm of hornets, A guy who shoots lightning out of his fingers, a giant nuclear IRBM launching tank. The grandfather of sniping and was tortured, and left in a highsecurity building with nothing and escaped.

Originally posted by Furion
Snake is gonna pwn all the people in Suber Smash Bros Brawl.
Snake has faced way worse then Sam. Big Boss alone has faced: The Dead, A guy who controls a swarm of hornets, A guy who shoots lightning out of his fingers, a giant nuclear IRBM launching tank. The grandfather of sniping and was tortured, and left in a highsecurity building with nothing and escaped.

You have not read anything I have said, have you?

As for the last part, so has Sam

It just shows that Snake has taken down worse then Sam and would take him down about 7/10

He has taken down worse, yes indeed. However, what makes you so sure Sam could not take down the same targets? It is a blind claim to say Snake beats Sam, just because Snake has fought tougher enemies than Sam.

A parrot killed Jafar. I guess that makes him able to kill Sam and Snake blindfolded, since Jafar is far mightier than anything Sam and Snake has ever fought (Combined and everything at once).

Originally posted by Lady Fox
He has taken down worse, yes indeed. However, what makes you so sure Sam could not take down the same targets? It is a blind claim to say Snake beats Sam, just because Snake has fought tougher enemies than Sam.

A parrot killed Jafar. I guess that makes him able to kill Sam and Snake blindfolded, since Jafar is far mightier than anything Sam and Snake has ever fought (Combined and everything at once).
Snake also knows CQC and had to defeat his Boss/Lover/Teacher.
That Parrot could kill Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, Kain, U-Do, Pyron, Jedah, Dimitri,Sephiroth, Raziel, And the Living Tribune in 0.0000001 seconds.

It does not matter who he has killed. You all bring that specific point up:
"He has killed him. He has killed him. He has killed her. He has killed that"

Unless he killed them all with skills superior to Sam Fisher, I do not consider those victories proof enough.

The Boss is pretty much Superior to Sam Fisher in everyway cept maybe stealth.
She owned Big Boss throughout the game in CQC and that's like the best martial art. Big Boss beat The Boss at the end of the game through supposably CQC. Even Colonol Volgin doesn't Fvuk with The Boss.

"Except stealth"

The most important point. Sam Fisher is good in every area that modern warfar require. His absolute best area is stealth.

How will Snake fight something he can not see?

But that's the primary reason why Snake defeated her. Stealth. Plus we don't know for sure if The Boss is good at Stealth or not since it doesn't really talk about her skills. Big Boss was everything The Boss was and more and got cloned and his clones are basically as good as him. Fisher is good, but Snake is better.

"Snake is better" You are basing this on.... what exactly? And do not bring up names of people he has killed.

Who Snake?
Big Boss included: The Fury, The Pain, The Fear, The End, The Sorrow, The Joy/The Boss, Volgin. I forget the others Snake has killed. He killed Big Boss in MG2 so that's a big thing. He defeated his clone Liquid Snake in combat.

Sigh

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Because from the view I see it, this battle is judged by ONE bullet. As far as I am aware, Sam is better than Snake at stealth, which gives him that advantage. He is also a very acrobatic person, which gives him another asset.

Have you NOT seen Solid Snake in MGS1? Almost every cutscene has him performing some form of acrobatics with agility and reflexes almost tapping through peak human capabilities. He also more than once dodged multiple bullets like the Matrix, once nearly at point-blank range IIRC. In the agility department, Snake is lightyears ahead of Fisher.

As for stealth, they're at least equal. I only say equal because Snake's stealth camoflauge is known to malfunction, but even then he's used his stealth to am uch more versatile extent in and out of gameplay. Solid Snake vs. Sam Fisher in their prime is basically pitting a hungry python and a beached goldfish (respectively) against eachother.

It does not matter how agile it is. He has not survived a bullet in the head. Neither of the two has. This is a one-shot kill. The one who sees the other one first wins. Simple as that, I would at top say 50/50. Otherwise 70/30 to Sam, since he is a better stealth agent. Although, the 50/50 is because if Sam slips, Snake is better equiped.

Not when one has reflexes that are miles ahead of the other. As another throwback to MGS1, Snake's senses allowed him to dodge a bullet coming straight at him about twenty minutes into the game (first meeting Revolver Ocelot). And his agility allowed him to do the same thing when faced with a machine gun. As well as when up against a gatling gun while riding on top of an armored car through a narrow tunnel. Snake doesn't need to take a bullet to the head, he's more than capable of dodging.

From behind?

Whatever. You guys would not give in even if Hideo Kojima himself said that Snake would lose.

Well it all matters where it takes place.
Sam wins if it is an area like a building or prison or a place with ventilation shafts.
Snake wins if it takes place in the wilderness or something where he could easily camo.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
From behind?

Whatever. You guys would not give in even if Hideo Kojima himself said that Snake would lose.

Don't try to make a fourth wall breaking hypothesis out of this whole thing just to make us sound biased. You're the one taking zero references into account for what, simplicity?

Originally posted by Furion
Well it all matters where it takes place.
Sam wins if it is an area like a building or prison or a place with ventilation shafts.
Snake wins if it takes place in the wilderness or something where he could easily camo.

We're talking about Solid Snake, not Big Boss.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
Don't try to make a fourth wall breaking hypothesis out of this whole thing just to make us sound biased. You're the one taking zero references into account for what, simplicity?

I know when a character is favored for who he is and not what he actually can do. I have been around long enough for that. And I am not directing it at you.

They are both mortals. Sam Fisher can to an extent see trough walls. They both have a gun and supreme accuracy. It is all a matter about who sees who first. If Sam see Snake, Sam kills Snake. If Snake see Sam, Snake kills Sam.

I agree with Furion. It depends on where they fight and also how the situation looks from the very start.

Snake is a complete copy of Big Boss, he has everything he had. Big Boss's feats can be Snake's too since if he was put in the exact same situation, Snake would defeat them.

Snake wins.

Quite frankly Solid Snake's feats in Twin Snakes range in the super-human department.

As for Stealth I'd say they are about equal. Snake did sneak up on Raiden in Arsenal Gear, and Raiden is not a pushover contrary to popular belief.

In a hand to hand fight Snake has Sam beaten with no questions asked. His performance against Cyborg Ninja makes that a solid fact.

In a firefight I'd go with Snake, but I am not taking away Sam's accuracy.

All in all Snake always wins this match. He always does.

He always does?


They are both the best soldier in the world. They are both supreme stealth agents. They both have exceptional aim. What decide the outcome is who sees who first.

A fair saying would be 50/50 in this fight.

Snake has also been shown to take multiple bullets in the body and live.

Snake FTW.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
He always does?


They are both the best soldier in the world. They are both supreme stealth agents. They both have exceptional aim. What decide the outcome is who sees who first.

A fair saying would be 50/50 in this fight.

Sam supporters never manage to put up thoroughly convincing arguments to make Sam win this match. That is why I said Snake always wins this fight here.

Unlike Sam, Snake has the feats to back him up.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Snake has also been shown to take multiple bullets in the body and live.

So has Sam.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Sam supporters never manage to put up thoroughly convincing arguments to make Sam win this match. That is why I said Snake always wins this fight here.

Unlike Sam, Snake has the feats to back him up.

Because there unfortunatly is not much to bring in about Sam. He clear the games without effort, so we have never seen his extent. We do know that he is a superior stealth agent. His climbing, crawling, sneaking and tactic is highly advance.

It is also tougher to bring up stuff about Sam. He has never fought a boss, so unlike Snake can he not get any feats from that which pushes him to his extent.

He can hold his breath for a long amount of time as well as move soundless as good as anywhere. He climb straight poles and can run up on walls. He can hide places that Snake would probably never look at.

Sam has soundlessly broken out of chains while tied up to a chair, while a soldier is in the same room. The roof lamp blinks and soundlessly has Sam grabbed the guard while starting from a sitting position and dashed across the room (Note soundless. He dropped the chains that he was wrapped in without any rassle).

Sam exits the shadows and unloads a full clip from his side arm into snakes dumbass box-camo

FOOL! Nobody beats the box!

The Parrot does

Doesn't Count. Parrot is above Zomy guy that Sol loves

Parrot gives LT a run for.... whatever he earns by doing what he does

The Parrot is above LT and every single being in the Marvel and DC universes and would Obliterate them all in 1 second.

look as far as pure physical feats go. snake went toe to toe with the cyborg ninja who had reflexes fast enough to dodge bullets with his BLADE and strength enough to take the wieght of metal gear STOMPING DOWN{hundreds of tons} and agility to enough to straight out dodge vulcan and metal gear lasers and a blade which cud cut through nearly anything + stealth. and that was in HAND TO HAND. he also bested the greatest sniper on earth, wolf. he had the will and strength to finish a guy who was a psychic powerful enough to read his mind and destroyed the entire vilage he grew up in in one shot when his powers surfaced. snake also battled and defeated metal gea rex.

disreguarding the 2d metal gear titles, snake also defeated big boss. and he defeated olga in an exoskeleton. as for big boss, he defeated a teleporting fear with huge swarms of hornets available. he also defeated the superhuman fear with far more agility etc than any normal human. the end was also bested in a sniping contest. snake's will allowed him to leave the sorrow's realm and sorrow cud create georaphical storms and lightening strikes{ yes it is him who kills volgin by the lightening strike}, the boss was the ultimate soldier above all other and he beat her in pure hand to hand. he also beat volgin in hand to hand who cud create charges of upto ten million volts and make bullets explode and fire in his hand. he also had enough strength to punch through the armour of shagohod which the rpg with heat warhead cudnt even SCRATCH.

in portable ops{which is cannon} snake defeated null who was fast enough to dodge bullets and slash mmultiple highly trained soldiers to shreds. he also beat ursula who was a power enough telepath and telekenetic to power raxa with no energy and snake still won. he also defeated GENE who was far faster than null and easily dodged bullets and was so fast infact that even ursula, telepathically knowoing what hed do from far ahead cudnt counter telekenetically, the movement of his body. there is also the fact that he had a telepathic voice which was even more powerful than ursula's suggestibility.

these are just some of the feats. fisher has no chance in HELL against snake. snake shud NOT be considered human at ALL!!!!

Sam dies, please accept this.

Originally posted by Furion
Doesn't Count. Parrot is above Zomy guy that Sol loves

I heard that.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
So has Sam.



Not as much. Sam dies from gunfire in seconds. Snake can sit there and get shot for quite awhile longer, from things like grenades and rocket launchers no less.

Also, Snake's health regenerates, Sam's doesn't.

I've said it B4 & I will say it again,Snake wins this via total domination!

agreed..
Originally posted by Lady Fox
It is a one-shot kill. An epic showdown would be Master Chief Vs. Samus.
for the record, we've discussed this, and MC goes down hard

Originally posted by Lady Fox

Kazenji said Snake has rockets. I for a fact happen to know he also has sniper rifle.
Sam Fisher uses neither of the two and still has completed missions, so who is it that goes in with more items again?

Obvisouly you have'nt played the MGS games

snake did'nt start off with the sniper rifle, Rocket laucher and many guns he had to find them himself unlike mr fisher.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

snake should NOT be considered human at ALL!!!!

Thats because he's a clone created from big boss's corpse

Originally posted by Kazenji
Thats because he's a clone created from big boss's corpse

Just for the record, the Les Enfants Terribles project occured BEFORE Big Boss' death (possibly long before at that). It's kind of easy to know since it was one of Big Boss' three clones that killed him (via makeshift flamethrower).

not big boss;s corpse. but a living big boss. solic snake KILLED big boss.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Obvisouly you have'nt played the MGS games

snake did'nt start off with the sniper rifle, Rocket laucher and many guns he had to find them himself unlike mr fisher.



Thats because he's a clone created from big boss's corpse

What exactly does that matter? He still use them.

Also, when Sam Fisher goes Double Agent, he destroys his googles. Still he is the best soldier the world has ever seen.

Originally posted by MadMel
agreed..

for the record, we've discussed this, and MC goes down hard

Does not matter. I only brought up an example.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Not as much. Sam dies from gunfire in seconds. Snake can sit there and get shot for quite awhile longer, from things like grenades and rocket launchers no less.

Also, Snake's health regenerates, Sam's doesn't.

Has Snake survived a direct shot in the head?

If he has, and you can prove to me that he is at LEAST as good a stealth agent as Sam, I am dropping it all and agree Snake as victorious.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
What exactly does that matter? He still use them.

Also, when Sam Fisher goes Double Agent, he destroys his googles. Still he is the best soldier the world has ever seen.


Well if you remember what you said on Page 1



so really it did matter because it was coming back to what you said about "who is it that goes in with more items again?" so all up Solid snake starts off like sam fisher on every mission just given what weapons that his superiors give him.

what kind of joke is this? sam fisher is one of kains vampire sons, he would>>>>Solid snake.....

Originally posted by Kazenji
Well if you remember what you said on Page 1



so really it did matter because it was coming back to what you said about "who is it that goes in with more items again?" so all up Solid snake starts off like sam fisher on every mission just given what weapons that his superiors give him.

Snake still uses more items to accomplish his tasks.

look at the examples i gave before. he wasnt exactly using many GADGETS to do those things. and PUHLEASE, snake is far better at sneaking than sam. look people, splinter cells series is far more REALISTIC and that is the PURPOSE of the game, u die quickly and your noticed even quicker, your enemeis are not superppovered super soldiers or genome soldiers with super everything including senses. you DONT go up against hordes of people and you dont have so uch space for weapons etc. admit is, sam fisher is more like a REAL life agent. snake is textbook definition of SUPER SOLDIER. sam stands NO chance.

Snake is a textbook definition of super soldiers that die of one shot. Just like Sam Fisher is more like a real life agent that also dies from one shot.


You claim Snake is far better at sneaking than Sam. Prove it, because I disagree bigtime and am in need to be disproven.

Big Boss getse shot in the head in MGS3 and he pulls the bullets out. Don't know if it counts as gameplay or not.

If he has survived a shot in the head, then that is it. I agree Snake victorious.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
If he has survived a shot in the head, then that is it. I agree Snake victorious.
but I said I don't know if it is gameplay or not. If snake gets shot , you go into survival viewer and see where it is to take the bullet out. He can get shot anywhere and gets shot in the head sometimes.

are you kidding me? snake is the only of the two who can use a rocket launcher, if he catches sam with that weapon he'll be the victor

on the other hand sam has first hand training on stealth stalking and avoiding stealth stalkers from gaining vantage points.