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Okay I don't know if its been done so if it has I apologize in advance...but I seriously don't know who wins.

All realities/universes would be wiped out and timelines disrupted from this battle but I'm going with Thanos.

Thanos wins all day.

Been done before

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415975
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=460217

Second one has a poll.

Classic Beyonder Wins.

Thanos if he indeed had the power of the actual writers. The classic beyonders feats aren't even beyond mr. mxy's.

Classic Beyonder wins.

Thanos has more impressive battle feats. No one could even phase him but the classic MM could indeed phase Beyonder.

Did classic MM attack Thanos?

Originally posted by llagrok
Did classic MM attack Thanos? It wouldnt have mattered. Did all the abstracts attack the Beyonder at once. No he was phased by Dr Doom. Thanos was to busy tearing Celestials in half.

i prefere Thanos so ill go with him, in essence their both overpowred entities

Originally posted by quanchi112
It wouldnt have mattered. Did all the abstracts attack the Beyonder at once. No he was phased by Dr Doom. Thanos was to busy tearing Celestials in half.

You wouldn't refer to Dr Doom with all the power of Galactus' ship as simly Dr Doom, would you?

Originally posted by llagrok
You wouldn't refer to Dr Doom with all the power of Galactus' ship as simly Dr Doom, would you? Galactus ship is laughable to Thanos. The Lt meant nothing to him let alone someone empowered by Galactus' ship. Thanos had no weaknesses and no rivals. It is as simple as that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Galactus ship is laughable to Thanos. The Lt meant nothing to him let alone someone empowered by Galactus' ship. Thanos had no weaknesses and no rivals. It is as simple as that.

What would you call the TOAA then?

Also, it's not like Doom was able to beat up the Beyonder...

Originally posted by llagrok
What would you call the TOAA then?

Also, it's not like Doom was able to beat up the Beyonder... Thanos was supreme bottom line. The former Supreme being needed him to right the flaw in the universe.

Doom was able to affect the Beyonder and temporarily steal his power. The resistance Thanos met was pathetic as he deemed it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos was supreme bottom line. The former Supreme being needed him to right the flaw in the universe.

Doom was able to affect the Beyonder and temporarily steal his power. The resistance Thanos met was pathetic as he deemed it.

But he never met the Beyonder or MM.

And the Beyonder was able to steal that power right back :/

Originally posted by llagrok
But he never met the Beyonder or MM.

And the Beyonder was able to steal that power right back :/ Not immediately back. It showed he had weakness while there was none in Thanos. Thanos also defeated basically everyone at once with ease. He didnt even have to push himself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not immediately back. It showed he had weakness while there was none in Thanos. Thanos also defeated basically everyone at once with ease. He didnt even have to push himself.

But how fast Thanos defeated the Celestials and skyfathers doesn't really matter, now does it?

Being able to recreate a universe isn't the same as possessing power of the original Beyonder, let alone the TOAA.

Originally posted by llagrok
But how fast Thanos defeated the Celestials and skyfathers doesn't really matter, now does it?

Being able to recreate a universe isn't the same as possessing power of the original Beyonder, let alone the TOAA.

The original beyonder was a mutliversal being. Nothing more. He had a limit to his power. and his understanding was shit.

Originally posted by llagrok
But how fast Thanos defeated the Celestials and skyfathers doesn't really matter, now does it?

Being able to recreate a universe isn't the same as possessing power of the original Beyonder, let alone the TOAA. You arent getting it. The way he dealt with the opposition. No one phased him while an amped Doom caught him off guard.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You arent getting it. The way he dealt with the opposition. No one phased him while an amped Doom caught him off guard.

classic mm gave beyonder everthing he had,and it only made him cough.
thanos took everthing what the absracts were dishing out,and it didnt even phase him one bit.

Originally posted by LORD B
classic mm gave beyonder everthing he had,and it only made him cough.
thanos took everthing what the absracrs were dishing out,and it didnt even phase him one bit. Thanos called the resistance pathetic.

Thanos ftw.

According to what I've read up on Thanos, at his absolute most powerful, he would win. At standard levels, I don't know.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
According to what I've read up on Thanos, at his absolute most powerful, he would win. At standard levels, I don't know.

standard thanos would get slaughtered by classic beyonder.

This isnt about standard Thanos its about Thanos with the heart of the universe.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This isnt about standard Thanos its about Thanos with the heart of the universe.

i know,im just letting the above poster know

Beyonder ftw.
For the fact that LT was scared to face him.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos was to busy tearing Celestials in half.
Lulz, Thanos killed one Celestial.
The Beyonder pwnd a planet full of them using freaking H2H.

Originally posted by Priest
Beyonder ftw.
For the fact that LT was scared to face him.

Lulz, Thanos killed one Celestial.
The Beyonder pwnd a planet full of them using freaking H2H. Lt got outright pwned by Thanos. He should have been afraid to confront him. The Beyonder still got assaulted by Doom.

the same abstacts whow ere all scared of Classic MM ?



and here i thought all the stuff in the comic stated Beyonder's power was millions of times greater than the multiverse and his universe was quintillions times larger...

Beyonder wins every time.

Originally posted by Priest
Beyonder ftw.
For the fact that LT was scared to face him.

Lulz, Thanos killed one Celestial.
The Beyonder pwnd a planet full of them using freaking H2H.

While looking like Elvis no less.

The Beyonder did state that the human witness could not perceive the levels on which the battle was taking place and the Celestials attacked because the Beyonder was going to destroy the universe (or multiverse) if they didn't attack him so he could show off.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Lt got outright pwned by Thanos. He should have been afraid to confront him. The Beyonder still got assaulted by Doom.

Yeah but Doom used equipment provided by the Beyonder. Not sure if that makes it equivalent to Reed Richards using the Ultimate Nullifier. That would be like Thanos making an ultimate weapon and then leaving it laying around for someone to use against him.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The original beyonder was a mutliversal being. Nothing more.


Ok, now, on a serious note,

Beyonder created a Universe,
that was quintillions of times larger than the infinite Prime Multiverse.
(according to Shooter's analogy) "an ocean to a drop of water"

There's not even 1000 Multiverses in Marvel,
currently, actually there never have been that many.

So do the math.
......................

As for who wins,
at the expense of the Omniverse,
Thanos should win,
although, one could argue, (even myself)
a stalemate. (only in raw power though, in a battle Thanos wins)

Imo, peace & love yall. stoned

edit

thanos w/heart of the infinite ftw

Sorry to bring this back after so long but I've been refreshing my mind on classic Beyonder and on Thanos.

The problem is not just Thanos and Classic Beyonder. Its that the entire cosmology of Marvel was different during the Beyonder's era.

The Beyonder eliminated death, wiped it from existence. Then brought it back. Eternity, the Living Tribunal, Order, Chaos, the Watcher, Odin, etc., begged the Beyonder not to do it. They didn't even try to stop him. They knew there wasn't jack they could do to stop him. They went to the Molecule Man and begged him to try.

There was a letter sent to Marvel asking how the Beyonder could be more powerful than Eternity or the Living Tribunal. It was explained that these beings were conceptual entities formed of the multiverse. But there was more than one of them. The Beyonder was the living consciousness of a separate potential multiverse that was even bigger than the Marvel multiverse (yes one infinity bigger than another infinity). He was like all of them in one

The Beyonder of that era could wipe the thing Thanos worshipped out of existence and bring her back again with a thought. He was exactly what the name implied, beyond.

If he is willing to be nice and create machines that others can use against him or give up all his power and wait to be killed, then yes Thanos could beat him. BUT if he doesn't intentionally make himself vulnerable, I just don't see how even Thanos can beat him.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Ok, now, on a serious note,

Beyonder created a Universe,
that was quintillions of times larger than the infinite Prime Multiverse.
(according to Shooter's analogy) "an ocean to a drop of water"

There's not even 1000 Multiverses in Marvel,
currently, actually there never have been that many.

So do the math.
......................

As for who wins,
at the expense of the Omniverse,
Thanos should win,
although, one could argue, (even myself)
a stalemate. (only in raw power though, in a battle Thanos wins)

Imo, peace & love yall. stoned

I agree with this, because Beyonder was like a kid.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok, now, on a serious note,

Beyonder created a Universe,
that was quintillions of times larger than the infinite Prime Multiverse.
(according to Shooter's analogy) "an ocean to a drop of water"

There's not even 1000 Multiverses in Marvel,
currently, actually there never have been that many.

So do the math.
......................

As for who wins,
at the expense of the Omniverse,
Thanos should win,
although, one could argue, (even myself)
a stalemate. (only in raw power though, in a battle Thanos wins)

Imo, peace & love yall.
It has come to my attention that Marvel has an infinite amount of MultiverseS,
just wanted to clear that up.

Marvel and their shenanigans.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It has come to my attention that Marvel has an infinite amount of MultiverseS,
just wanted to clear that up.


So, you give the Beyonder the win now?


The Beyond Realm is now a part of the mainstream Marvel omniverse now, eh? If so, the TOAA..as we know him today would have power and authority over all that area. So, Thanos..with the HOTI...would encompass all that territory as well.

Thanos should win either way.

Originally posted by Southern_Rebel
So, you give the Beyonder the win now?


The Beyond Realm is now a part of the mainstream Marvel omniverse now, eh? If so, the TOAA..as we know him today would have power and authority over all that area. So, Thanos..with the HOTI...would encompass all that territory as well.

Thanos should win either way.

Yeah but 'today' isn't the issue. Its the Beyonder as he was pre-retcon vs. Thanos as he is post-retcon. Back then, not a lot of mention of the One Above All and the Living Tribunal was running to the Molecule Man for help, as was Eternity. Back then, the Beyond Realm was completely separate from the Marvel multiverse and it was a realm the Beyonder had complete control of. Hence even the LT, representing the entire Marvel multiverse, couldn't stop him. And the fact he could kill Death and bring her back if he chose says a lot about his power relative to Thanos. The fact the LT and all the others were asking him nicely to relent because they couldn't stop him says a lot. At least they tried with Thanos meaning they thought there was a remote chance.

The Beyonder had a child-like mentality and everytime someone got the best of him, it was because of something he did to create the situation, such as making machines Dr. Doom could use or casting out his own powers. That's equivalent to Thanos throwing away the Heart and saying, "Okay, kill me." I'm just looking at the actual power wielded by each character and what would happen if they each used it to the full potential.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
Yeah but 'today' isn't the issue. Its the Beyonder as he was pre-retcon vs. Thanos as he is post-retcon. Back then, not a lot of mention of the One Above All and the Living Tribunal was running to the Molecule Man for help, as was Eternity. Back then, the Beyond Realm was completely separate from the Marvel multiverse and it was a realm the Beyonder had complete control of. Hence even the LT, representing the entire Marvel multiverse, couldn't stop him. And the fact he could kill Death and bring her back if he chose says a lot about his power relative to Thanos. The fact the LT and all the others were asking him nicely to relent because they couldn't stop him says a lot. At least they tried with Thanos meaning they thought there was a remote chance.

The Beyonder had a child-like mentality and everytime someone got the best of him, it was because of something he did to create the situation, such as making machines Dr. Doom could use or casting out his own powers. That's equivalent to Thanos throwing away the Heart and saying, "Okay, kill me." I'm just looking at the actual power wielded by each character and what would happen if they each used it to the full potential. The Beyonder still was temporarily usurped. Thanos called the resistance pathetic. What he did on panel to the forces gathered to stop him was BEYOND a shadow of a doubt the most impressive on panel marvel feat to date.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Beyonder still was temporarily usurped. Thanos called the resistance pathetic. What he did on panel to the forces gathered to stop him was BEYOND a shadow of a doubt the most impressive on panel marvel feat to date.

I don't know. I think Owen Reece opening his closet door and finding Eternity, the Living Tribunal, Odin, Chaos, Order, the Watcher, etc., waiting in their to beg his help against an opponent they couldn't beat was pretty impressive ad pretty funny and killing Death and bringing it back, two impossible feats, is pretty impressive.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
I don't know. I think Owen Reece opening his closet door and finding Eternity, the Living Tribunal, Odin, Chaos, Order, the Watcher, etc., waiting in their to beg his help against an opponent they couldn't beat was pretty impressive ad pretty funny and killing Death and bringing it back, two impossible feats, is pretty impressive. Oh yes it is impressive. But to see Thanos call thir efforts pathetic, to destroy a Celestial, and accomplish this all with minimal effort is more impressive.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh yes it is impressive. But to see Thanos call thir efforts pathetic, to destroy a Celestial, and accomplish this all with minimal effort is more impressive.

Dramatically impressive maybe. But power impressive? The Celestials had no chance at all against the Beyonder. It was clear that fighting them was just a game to him. All those beings put together had zero chance against him. It took him no effort at all.

It really is like arguing who would win: The One Above All or the Presence?

This isn't about who would really win because these are omnipotent beings from two different settings. This is about who each of us likes more.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
Dramatically impressive maybe. But power impressive? The Celestials had no chance at all against the Beyonder. It was clear that fighting them was just a game to him. All those beings put together had zero chance against him. It took him no effort at all.

It really is like arguing who would win: The One Above All or the Presence?

This isn't about who would really win because these are omnipotent beings from two different settings. This is about who each of us likes more. I disagree as Doom was able through tech to steal the Beyonders powers. No one and I repeat no one stood a chance against Thanos. That right there is the difference imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree as Doom was able through tech to steal the Beyonders powers.
It wasn't that simple good friend.

We later learned Beyonder himself coerced Doom's existence during SS-I.
(maybe why Doom was able to take Galactus' power too)

Originally posted by Mr Master
It wasn't that simple good friend.

We later learned Beyonder himself coerced Doom's existence during SS-I.
(maybe why Doom was able to take Galactus' power too)

Im not to familiar with Classic Beyonder to be honest, so forgive my ignorance.

Are you saying Beyonder planned for Doom to steal his power? Or not because if he planned it, then does that go against the main reasoning for Beyonders defeat in this thread?
Everyone knows Thanos had no weakness, does that mean Beyonder didnt either if he allowed Doom to do what he did?

Again, forgive my ignorance on the character, all i know of him is what ive read and seen you post about him before, actually!

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Im not to familiar with Classic Beyonder to be honest,
so forgive my ignorance.
That's cool meng.

That's the character I've probably studied the most,
pre to post, I have all appearances.
Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Are you saying Beyonder planned for Doom to steal his power?
Or not because if he planned it,
then does that go against the main reasoning for Beyonders defeat in this thread?
There's nothing THOTI can do, that Beyonder can't do.
But, THOTI wins in the end.

But yea, that whole moment of glory for Doom was influenced by Beyonder.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Everyone knows Thanos had no weakness,
does that mean Beyonder didnt either if he allowed Doom to do what he did?

Here's the take:


Doom got stomped in one page.

Beyonder let his guard down and then Doom struck.

Meh ... not to mention he was being KEPT Alive by Beyonder during this crucial time:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6503/b2xu8.th.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/285/b3ou7.th.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8414/d5ju0.th.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6992/d6ib6.th.jpg


Do you know why?

Because Beyonder coerced that entire event. (by accident or design)

...........................................................................


This "Doctor Doom," that was in Secret Wars the first series,

that WASN'T really Doom (well technically it was but read)

that was a Future self of Doom plucked from a point in the Timestream
that DID NOT EXIST YET, courtesy of the Beyonder.

Not only does Beyonder use a Doom from a NON-Existent Future
to fight in the Secret Wars saga,
(which now explains HOW Doom was able to Manipulate Galactus's vast technology)

but the funny thing is Doom's body was already DEAD,
he had been dead since FF #260,
when the FF, Doom and Silver Surfer took on Terrax.

...........................................................................


The insane part is,

Beyonder plucked Doom
from a Future that Beyonder himself was going to Created for Doom
FAR AFTER the Secret Wars series:

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6926/b1qw4.th.jpg

This is ALL well into the Secret Wars II series by the way.

...........................................................................


Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama
that was already played out,
just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,

Beyonder speeds up that seperate event in time (Secret Wars I)
and ends up in the NOW,

with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3189/b2pe0.th.jpg


Beyonder enjoyed setting up humans,
with the notion of control and power,
just to see what they would do with it...
it happened several times.

...........................................................................


Here is Doom himself, recounting the Event:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3218/beondersenddoomtopastvw5.th.jpg

...........................................................................

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Again, forgive my ignorance on the character,
all i know of him is what ive read and seen you post about him before, actually!
Cool.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But, THOTI wins in the end.
Pssh. Yeah right. Beyonder wins. 131

Thanks for explaining that for me, now it makes sense.

Originally posted by Mr Master
There's nothing THOTI can do, that Beyonder can't do.
But, THOTI wins in the end.

Would you say Beyonder would even put up a resistance? Or would Thanos just one shot him?

Even though Thanos has the Power-Infinite from the Almighty, if he applied all the power into one blast, could the Beyonder shield against it?

Could he perform the same feat that MM performed when Beyonder blasted him by transfering the blast outside the multi-verse? (think thats what happened)
Or would he be incinerated in one blast?

Interesting stuff

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Thanks for explaining that for me, now it makes sense.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Would you say Beyonder would even put up a resistance?
Or would Thanos just one shot him?

Even though Thanos has the Power-Infinite from the Almighty,
if he applied all the power into one blast, could the Beyonder shield against it?

Could he perform the same feat that MM performed when Beyonder blasted him by transfering the blast outside the multi-verse? (think thats what happened)
Or would he be incinerated in one blast?
The battle would imo destroy all creation,
it would last ages ... in the end, THOTI wins.
(no one is going to one shot Beyonder)

Originally posted by Mr Master
The battle would imo destroy all creation,
it would last ages ... in the end, THOTI wins.
(no one is going to one shot Beyonder)

If THOTI would chose so, the battle shouldn't last longer than against LT and others.

Originally posted by Mr Master


The battle would imo destroy all creation,
it would last ages ... in the end, THOTI wins.
(no one is going to one shot Beyonder)

Theoretically speaking, if they're both supreme beings of sorts, wouldnt it be an eternal stalemate?

What edge would one have over the other? I mean, literally 'how' could one beat the other?

Surely they both have infinite stamina, so one wouldnt tire before the other.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Theoretically speaking,
if they're both supreme beings of sorts, wouldnt it be an eternal stalemate?
I erroneously thought the current Marvel Omniverse had a limited amount of MultiverseS,
I thought the # was in the 100's to 1000's,
I recently learned,
Marvel's Omniverse has an infinite amount of infinite MultiverseS.

Therefore,
while Beyonder's Reality was many (quintillions) infinities beyond the Prime Multiverse,
(an Ocean to a drop of water)
it was not as immense as the current Omniverse,
which is = to "Countless MultiverseS" which is > than quintillions.

Therefore,
Thanos became something greater than what the Beyonder was.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
What edge would one have over the other?
A level of infinity.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
I mean, literally 'how' could one beat the other?
Endurance.

THOTI can go on forever,
but Beyonder's infinity has a limit,
if that makes sense. (in Marvel it does)

So while Beyonder would give THOTI the ultimate fight,
ultimately, imo, Beyonder would finally lose.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The insane part is,

Beyonder plucked Doom
from a Future that Beyonder himself was going to Created for Doom
FAR AFTER the Secret Wars series:

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6926/b1qw4.th.jpg

This is ALL well into the Secret Wars II series by the way.

...........................................................................


Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama
that was already played out,
just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,

Beyonder speeds up that seperate event in time (Secret Wars I)
and ends up in the NOW,

with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3189/b2pe0.th.jpg


Beyonder enjoyed setting up humans,
with the notion of control and power,
just to see what they would do with it...
it happened several times.

...........................................................................


Here is Doom himself, recounting the Event:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3218/beondersenddoomtopastvw5.th.jpg

...........................................................................


Cool. Sweet!

What comic are those from?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I erroneously thought the current Marvel Omniverse had a limited amount of MultiverseS,
I thought the # was in the 100's to 1000's,
I recently learned,
Marvel's Omniverse has an infinite amount of infinite MultiverseS. It's ok...

Originally posted by Mr Master
I erroneously thought the current Marvel Omniverse had a limited amount of MultiverseS,
I thought the # was in the 100's to 1000's,
I recently learned,
Marvel's Omniverse has an infinite amount of infinite MultiverseS.

Therefore,
while Beyonder's Reality was many (quintillions) infinities beyond the Prime Multiverse,
(an Ocean to a drop of water)
it was not as immense as the current Omniverse,
which is = to "Countless MultiverseS" which is > than quintillions.

Therefore,
Thanos became something greater than what the Beyonder was.


A level of infinity.


Endurance.

THOTI can go on forever,
but Beyonder's infinity has a limit,
if that makes sense. (in Marvel it does)

So while Beyonder would give THOTI the ultimate fight,
ultimately, imo, Beyonder would finally lose.

The levels of infinity thing doesnt really make sense full stop, but i understand how it works in the MU.

Strange cats over there

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh yes it is impressive. But to see Thanos call thir efforts pathetic, to destroy a Celestial, and accomplish this all with minimal effort is more impressive. Beyonder effortlessly took out a group of Celestials with H2H....

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Beyonder effortlessly took out a group of Celestials with H2H.... Thanos effortlessly took out Lt,Celestials, and everyone under the sun at once.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos effortlessly took out Lt,Celestials, and everyone under the sun at once. Beyonder was so strong they didn't even attempt to fight him...

Don't get me wrong, I think HOTI wins, I'm just saying the gap between them isn't large, it's pretty small.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Beyonder was so strong they didn't even attempt to fight him...

Don't get me wrong, I think HOTI wins, I'm just saying the gap between them isn't large, it's pretty small. Ok, but we do agree who wins this.

Old beyonder being more powerful than living tribunal.....purely speculation...never fought......we do know that living tribunal and friends did fight thanos with HOTU and lost ..easily.....we also know that even though it was implied that the living tribunal was more powerful than the infinity gauntlet..that was never proven as Adam Warlock gave up the gems voluntarily ...

cheers

Beyonder ftw.

impossible to tell. the beyonder never fought anyone of notable power except the molecule man. and he never fought anyone of notable power. so how are we to gage his powers? any thing he did, thanos with the heart could do. this fight is inconclusive or a tie.

thanos absorbs him.

Going with Thanos here, Beyonder is the most overhyped Multilevel being ever.

Originally posted by lannfear

Old beyonder being more powerful than living tribunal.....
purely speculation...never fought......
That's not speculation, that's a Marvel fact.

They never fought, because the LT didn't dare raise a finger,
on panel he was literally "desperate" and even "trembled" with the rest of the hierarchy.

Literally "trembled" ...

Originally posted by lannfear

we do know that living tribunal
and friends did fight thanos with HOTU and lost ..easily.....
Yes, we do know that the LT was not afraid of Thanos, but was afraid of the Beyonder.

Originally posted by lannfear

we also know

that even though it was implied that the living tribunal was more powerful than the infinity gauntlet..

that was never proven as Adam Warlock gave up the gems voluntarily ...
"we also know?"

...................................................................................

Actually on panel the LT, with a gesture, stopped Warlock's IG attack:
(an attack that obliterated Eternity and the rest of the Hierarchy)

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3538/w6jk3.th.jpg


With a gesture, Stopped, and simultaneously LT recreates everyone with the same gesture.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1166/w7xt1.th.jpg

...................................................................................

Official Marvel Handbooks of 2006 solidify the LT's superiority over the IG:

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5434/ltwc9.th.jpg

During that issue the LT clearly displayed dominance,
at the beginning, and at the end,
this is why the bio clearly tells us,
"the Living Tribunal demonstrated that his power surpassed that of the Gems"

...................................................................................

The bio tells us the LT ordered Warlock, and Warlock obeyed:


On Panel confirmation:

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7757/ltorderswl0iy.th.jpg



Originally posted by fangirl101

the beyonder never fought anyone of notable power except the molecule man.
and he never fought anyone of notable power.
Huh?

But Molecule Man is the character of most notable power.

MM was more powerful than the LT,
the LT stepped aside when MM arrived,
the whole Hierarchy was happy when MM arrived,
they thought they were saved:

(Beyonder had just erased Death from All of Marvel)

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/9083/lt5mr6.th.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1427/lt3zg4.th.jpg


So defeating MM, also "easily," meant everything.

Originally posted by fangirl101

so how are we to gage his powers?

On Panel: (one or all three in combination can be used)

1. By looking at what they've done. (feats)

2. By looking at what's been said about them. (statements)

3. By looking at what the Writer (directly) has said about them. (Marvel reputable sources)


Bio: (only as a secondary source that strengthens the On Panel evidence)

1. By looking at how the official Marvel Handbook corroborates the on panel depictions.

2. By looking at how Marvel.com interprets the On Panel proof.

3. By looking at how Marvunapp may have interpreted it. (has to match on panel artwork)

Originally posted by fangirl101

any thing he did, thanos with the heart could do.
I'm sure.

Originally posted by fangirl101

this fight is inconclusive or a tie.
Imo, I've said stalemate.

Although I could argue on Beyonder's behalf as having the grander feat.

Which was,
creating an Infinity trillions upon trillions of times more infinite than the infinite Prime Multiverse.

Also, possessing Millions of times more power than the rest of the Multiverse combined,
is uberdiculous.

To this day, all the Cosmic power in Marvel is concentrated around the Prime Multiverse,
to this day,
the Cosmic Hierarchy has stayed virtually the same since 1985.

After New revelations were discovered!

=======================================

If yall are interested in a great discussion concerning the comparison of the Beyonder and THOTI,
yall should check this thread out:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=477511&pagenumber=10

From that page on to the last,
we had solid dialogue,
many reasons to see it either way.

Imo, I landed at a stalemate, with "buts" though that may favor the Beyonder.

Enjoy if you wish.

I respect you're method of debating Mr, but Beyonder is not close to what u r making him out to be. Dont misread bits that were clearly done to seem poetic as something more. There is really nothing to indicate that Beyonder is anything more then a powerful mutiversal guy so with that Thanos takes this on the accound of actual feats.

Wasn't PR Beyonder millions of times stronger than all of the Prime Multiverse combined WHILE weakening himself?

Originally posted by The Great Galen

I respect you're method of debating Mr
Thanx.
Originally posted by The Great Galen

but Beyonder is not close to what u r making him out to be.
I disagree.

And I'm not making him out to be anything,
Marvel is responsible for that.

Marvel and Jim Shooter (Editor in-Chief of Marvel at the time and creator/writer of Secret Wars)

Originally posted by The Great Galen

Dont misread bits that were clearly done to seem poetic as something more.
So cause you disagree witht he fact,
you'll dismiss them as meaningless poetic bits.

Funny how you say, "that were clearly done to seem poetic" ...


Even though On Panel Beyonder literally scared the shit out of the LT.

Even though On Panel Beyonder had the LT "desperate"

Even though On Panel Beyonder was,
"Millions of times more powerful than the rest of Marvel combined"

Even though On Panel the Beyonder erased Death from all of Marvel, the re-created Death.

Even though On Panel Beyonder collapsed countless UniverseS,
took a blast from Molecule Man that would've obliterated several Billion entire UniverseS.

Even though Beyonder stomped Molecule Man (who was more powerful than LT)

Even though Beyonder created from nothingness a Reality quintillions of times more Infinite,
than the Infinite Marvel reality.



Meh, to name a few occurrences, all On Panel!

Originally posted by The Great Galen

There is really nothing to indicate that Beyonder is anything more then a powerful mutiversal guy so with that Thanos takes this on the accound of actual feats.
No offense friend,
but you have no idea what you're talking about.

And saying there's,
"nothing to indicate that Beyonder is anything more then a powerful mutiversal guy"
simply means that this statement originated from ignorance concerning the Beyonder.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

Wasn't PR Beyonder millions of times stronger than all of the Prime Multiverse combined?


http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7524/beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.th.jpg

But now it's being dismissed as poetry on Jim Shooter's part.

...........................................................................................

Interesting, I wonder if this is poetry too?

...........................................................................................


The Beyonder between 1984 and 1986,
was everything outside the Marvel Multiverse, (Infinite Beyond)
was GOD before Genesis, (a Supreme Being)
and in comparison with the entire Marvel Reality the Beyond Realm was like an Ocean,
while the entire Marvel Reality was like a drop of water.

Writer's own words! ^^^

......................................................................................


Jim Shooter - creator/writer of Secret Wars/Beyonder
(while he was Editor in chief of Marvel)

Get's interviewed ... about the Beyonder.

......................................................................................

Marvel Age is an official Marvel title, created to strictly discuss Marvel stories,
and other intricacies concerning Marvel comics.
......................................................................................

Jim Shooter himself describes Classic Beyonder to us:


Jim states:


1. Beyonder "is a Multi-verse."

2. Beyonder "was like God before there was Genesis."

3. Beyonder's discovery of our Universe ... (Marvel Multiverse)

.... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scope ...

.... and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ... "

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3339/jim1wp8.th.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7402/jim2mj1.th.jpg

swank

This is why Beyonder had to be retconned, (de-powered)
simply too much grander and power.

Kinda like why after the Crisis they weakened Supes.

Also, I read somewhere that the Marvel Multiverse was just dreamed up by Beyonder. Is that true?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

Also,
I read somewhere that the Marvel Multiverse was just dreamed up by Beyonder.

Is that true?
Read this, and you'll get your answer.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8379/beyonderisrealitydw2.th.jpg

"The Mightiest beings are microbes to me"

"Reality isn't real to me! Eveything is what I say it is"

"My imagination and reality are virtually indistinguishable"

"All Existence, except for me, might as well be a figment of my imagination"




http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/1592/b3rd6.th.jpg

"I who utterly dictate All Reality"




http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7766/b4qh2.th.jpg

"As long as I conceive of things, they exist, in a fashion,
because my thoughts equal Reality"

Oh, so it was just a metaphor, in that he has full control over it.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

Oh, so it was just a metaphor, in that he has full control over it.
Beyonder didn't originally create the Multiverse,
he just had absolute control over it,
thus the Multiverse was at the mercy of his whims,
since his thoughts equalled reality.

This is the best and funniest of his analogies:

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/8407/bbbpc0.jpg

(yet as humorous as that is, it's speaks volumes about Beyonder's absolute power)

Thanos wins completely. Beyonder is a comic book character, so THOTU is above him. It's that simple.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Thanos wins completely. Beyonder is a comic book character,
so THOTU is above him. It's that simple.
dontgetit

And what are you imagining THOTI was?

Or, are you being funny/sarcastic? ... cause what you just said makes no sense.

THOTU gives the wielder absolute control over the marvel Omniverse. Beyonder is part of the marvel Omniverse. This is very simple stuff here.

I still don't think Beyonder matched the feats Thanos did. This however, doesn't change the fact that Beyonder was written at the time to be truly supreme in Marvel.

imo, God vs. God = stalemate, and that's what I'm going with.

Nah, he was the supreme being of his own universe. He was missing a multiverse, a drop of water. That makes Thanos one drop of water ahead of him.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Nah, he was the supreme being of his own universe. He was missing a multiverse, a drop of water. That makes Thanos one drop of water ahead of him. Good point.

Originally posted by King Kandy

THOTU gives the wielder absolute control over the marvel Omniverse.

Beyonder is part of the marvel Omniverse.
And whoever said Post-retcon Beyonder is not part of the Omniverse.

Beyonder was NOT part of the Marvel reality originally though.

So that's a big NO!

THOTI would never have had control of the original Beyond realm.

Originally posted by King Kandy

This is very simple stuff here.
Not when you say Beyonder loses cause he's a comic book character.

I'm still scratching my head on that one.

Originally posted by Galan007

I still don't think Beyonder matched the feats Thanos did.

This however,
doesn't change the fact that Beyonder was written at the time to be truly supreme in Marvel.
I still don't know what Thanos did that outshined Beyonder.
Originally posted by Galan007

imo, God vs. God = stalemate, and that's what I'm going with.
That's where I ultimately landed at.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Nah, he was the supreme being of his own universe.
Beyonder was the supreme being of his own universe,
and when he entered the Marvel universe,
he became the supreme being of that just as well.

Originally posted by King Kandy

He was missing a multiverse, a drop of water.
That makes Thanos one drop of water ahead of him.
Beyonder was missing one what?

A meaningless Multiverse that includes NO cosmic hierarchy, or cosmic powers of any kind?

The ONLY significant Multiverse, is the infinite Prime Multiverse.

That's where all the primary power in the Marvel Universe is at.
That's why that's the LT's official area to survey.
That's why it's from Eternity that everything in the Omniverse flows.

Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than the Prime Multiverse combined.

All the other Multiverses are really inconsequential,
since they contain NO Eternitys, NO Infinitys, No comsic hierarchy of any kind.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder was NOT part of the Marvel reality originally though.

So that's a big NO!

THOTI would never have had control of the original Beyond realm. True.

As long as Beyonder was in the Beyond realm, he'd be safe from Thanos' frenzy - for the very same reason Death/Warlock were...

They all exist, or were outside of, time/space:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5697/outside1ip5.th.jpg http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5466/outside2wu5.th.jpg

Or perhaps because Beyonder personifies the Beyond realm, he'd be safe from absorption - even if he were within the prime Multiverse? I don't see why not. *shrugs*

Originally posted by Galan007
True.

As long as Beyonder was in the Beyond realm,
he'd be safe from Thanos' frenzy -
for the very same reason Death/Warlock were...

They all exist, or were outside time/space:

Or perhaps because Beyonder personifies the Beyond realm, he'd be safe from absorption - even if he were within the prime Multiverse. *shrugs*
Good point.

But imo,
Beyonder would simply not be absorbed, because Thanos wouldn't be able to do it.

Supreme Being vs a Supreme Being is a stalemate by default.

I'm undecided now, hmm this is a tough one but I do wonder...is it possible Beyonder could depower universal artifacts regardless of there status?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Good point.

But imo,
Beyonder would simply not be absorbed, because Thanos wouldn't be able to do it.

Supreme Being vs a Supreme Being is a stalemate by default. Agreed.

I was just throwing a new idea out there.

Beyonder himself is the entirety of the Beyond realm, . So it could be possible that even if Thanos were more powerful, he simply would not be able to absorb Beyonder, because he, as a character, is outside of all. Since Thanos never showed the ability to absorb beings from the 'outside', there isn't really anything to disprove that idea.

Originally posted by Galan007

Agreed.

I was just throwing a new idea out there.


Originally posted by Galan007

Beyonder himself is the entirety of the Beyond realm, . So it could be possible that even if Thanos were more powerful, he simply would not be able to absorb Beyonder, because he, as a character, is outside of all. Since Thanos never showed the ability to absorb beings from the 'outside', there isn't really anything to disprove that idea.
If that were the case, that'd be true, so I agree with your scenario.

The thing is brother G,
we forget that Beyonder was not just outside of time/space,
Beyonder was literally completely disconnected from the Marvel Universe according to Shooter.

Like another Marvel company all it's own that decided to cross-over into mainstream Marvel.

That's the best way to define Shooter's description (interview) by paraphrasing it.
(this was confirmed on panel by Shooter also as we know)


So unlike the many locations outside of time/space now withIN the Omniverse,
which are still part of the Marvel Universe, (withIN the Omniverse)

The Beyond Realm was not part of the Marvel Universe, at all.

That's the difference.

Originally posted by Mr Master



If that were the case, that'd be true, so I agree with your scenario.

The thing is brother G,
we forget that Beyonder was not just outside of time/space,
Beyonder was literally completely disconnected from the Marvel Universe according to Shooter.

Like another Marvel company all it's own that decided to cross-over into mainstream Marvel.

That's the best way to define Shooter's description (interview) by paraphrasing it.
(this was confirmed on panel by Shooter also as we know)


So unlike the many locations outside of time/space now withIN the Omniverse,
which are still part of the Marvel Universe, (withIN the Omniverse)

The Beyond Realm was not part of the Marvel Universe, at all.

That's the difference. That's why I said he was outside of "all".

Well thats all good and such but can Beyonder possibly depower Thano's artifact?

Originally posted by Galan007

That's why I said he was outside of "all".
stoned
Originally posted by The Great Galen

Well thats all good and such but can Beyonder possibly depower Thano's artifact?
Originally posted by Mr Master

Supreme Being vs a Supreme Being is a stalemate by default.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well thats all good and such but can Beyonder possibly depower Thano's artifact? It's not really an artifact per say - more of an energy source than anything.

At any rate, it'd be mighty hard to depower an 'infinite' power source - even for Beyonder.

Stalemate.

Well couldn't Beyonder simply remove the artifact from it's source thus nulifying its application. I also wonder if Beyonder could simply create his own artifact several times more powerful then THOTU.

Originally posted by Galan007

It's not reallyan artifact per say - more of an energy source than anything.


Originally posted by Galan007

At any rate, it'd be mighty hard to depower an 'infinite' power source - even for Beyonder.
Only if one's infinity is greater. (levels of infinity)

But in this case, this is infinity in the absolute sense on both sides.

So they will inevitably stalemate for ever.

Originally posted by The Great Galen

Well couldn't Beyonder simply remove the artifact from it's source
thus nulifying its application.
The source of power is THOTI.

To remove it's energies,
one would have to re-write what the true OAA/God created,
and that one is basically impossible.

For sure, even for Beyonder.

Originally posted by The Great Galen

I also wonder
if Beyonder could simply create his own artifact several times more powerful then THOTU.
There's a sensible argument imo that could allude to Beyonder being > THOTI.

But I know THOTI, and I respect what it is,
and I know it made Thanos the almighty supreme being of Marvel in the absolute sense.

So I must settle with a stalemate.

Saying that Beyonder is not part of the marvel Omniverse is lunacy. He was published by marvel and is therefore part of marvel. The Marvel Omniverse=everything related to marvel, including Beyonder.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder was missing one what?

A meaningless Multiverse that includes NO cosmic hierarchy, or cosmic powers of any kind?
No, he was missing the prime multiverse. He was everything outside of the prime multiverse. Thanos was everything outside AND inside. Even if Beyonder was a quintillion times more powerful, the fact remains:

Quintillion plus one>Quintillion.

I think its possible the beyonders universe was infinite, it could be a countable or uncountable infinity. In the uncountable case, the size of the primeverse would actually make no difference! No matter how many primverses are added to the "outside" of the beyonder-verse, the uncountable infinity sized verse would remain strictly greater.

Look up set theory and infinite cardinals to understand how mathematicians measure inifinities.

But phrases such as "Like a drop of water to the ocean." or "Millions of times greater then the multiverse combined" imply an actual proportion, no matter how small.

I remember those quotes from Secret Wars as well. Maybe I was wrong in assuming the word infinite was used at one point to describe the beyond realm?

Thanos for the win

Originally posted by King Kandy

No, he was missing the prime multiverse.
He was everything outside of the prime multiverse.
Beyonder was everything outside the Multiverse.

When Beyonder entered the Multiverse,
his thoughts became the Multiverse.

Beyonder wasn't missing anything.

There's only one Prime Multiverse, (same as today)
and Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than it.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Thanos was everything outside AND inside.
Nah.

Thanos was everything withIN the Omniverse.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Even if Beyonder was a quintillion times more powerful, the fact remains:

Quintillion plus one>Quintillion.
Quintillions of times more powerful than the infinite Prime Multiverse.

I think that's what you're not understanding.

All the Cosmic power in Marvel is concentrated around the Prime Multiverse.

The Cosmic Hierarchy ONLY exists withIN the Prime Multiverse.


You're confusing yourself by thinking that there's Quintillions,
or even TWO Prime Multiverses,
when there isn't.

There's ONLY One! ... the SAME one from 1985 basically.

Originally posted by King Kandy

But phrases such as "Like a drop of water to the ocean." or "Millions of times greater then the multiverse combined" imply an actual proportion,
no matter how small.
Yea, let's overlook the fact that that's,
millions of times more powerful than the INFINITE Prime Multiverse.

What proportions are you talking about?


You mean Infinity multiplied quintillions of times?

or Infinite power (including the LT's and everything in the Prime Multiverse)
multiplied Millions of times?


The analogy of "an Ocean to a drop of water" and "Millions of times more powerful"
is to give us some perspective on just how ridiculously powerful and grand Beyonder was,
in comparison with an Infinity of size and power (Prime Multiverse)

Originally posted by JerseyMage

I remember those quotes from Secret Wars as well.
Maybe I was wrong in assuming the word infinite was used at one point
to describe the beyond realm?
You were right, and now you've been swayed by inaccurate info.

The truth with proof!
........................................................................................

Beyonder CREATING/BECOMING the INFINITE Beyond:

http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/6076/buni4xn9.th.jpg

"Masses form in the Void, Stars, Suns, and Planets ... LIFE Arises"

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4980/b3oz3.th.jpg

"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND"

........................................................................................

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/5558/buni5it5.th.jpg

"Evolves and Flourishes Within the New Universe,
BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"

"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in which they dwell"

........................................................................................

swank

Btw. This infinity is actually an uberdiculous Multiverse:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4372/beyonderismultikh8.th.jpg

"Beyonder, the entity that embodied all the substance of Another Multiverse"

Really id have to say this is a stalemate. How do you determine the winner of a match that puts one ALL powerful being against another
ALL powerful being?

ok giving this some thought. i think i'm more impressed with thanos than with the beyonder. he was kinda dumb. and he wasn't the god of marvel. he was the god of another place and kinda took over marvel. only becuz marvel's god didn't step in. in the end, a guy named the molecule man was able to thwart the beyonder's power to destroy everything. how can he be supreme if someone like the molecule man, a creation of marvel's god, was able to stop his plan? marvel's god created a being that was able to divert the power of the beyonder. by that alone, marvel's god>>>>>>>>>>>>>moleculeman. also, the beyonder never fought the lt, and if marvel's god had said, i'm going to give you the power to beat this beyonder, it would have happened. why? becuz in actuality, marvel's god, is the creator of even the beyonder. now, according to what i gather from the end saga, thanos with the heart was given the power of marvel's god, by god himself, by being used as a puppet. in actuality, thanos, even tho he was on paper, was in fact the chosen avatar of marvel's god. this would make him supreme to the classic beyonder as the classic beyonder was not a chosen avatar. he couldn't have been becuz he did not possess marvel's universe. it was not his creation. so i change my opinion. thanos with the heart wins this.

Originally posted by fangirl101

ok giving this some thought.
i think i'm more impressed with thanos than with the beyonder.
Cool, all honest opinions (unsupported or not) are respected.

Originally posted by fangirl101

he was kinda dumb.
And yet,
he was the only being all the infinite prime Multiverse that figure out how to re-create Death.

That means that everyone in the Multiverse now is dumb.
Originally posted by fangirl101

and he wasn't the god of marvel.
he was the god of another place and kinda took over marvel.
Beyonder was the God of the Beyond Realm when he was there,
and he was the God of the Multiverse when he was there.



Originally posted by fangirl101

only becuz marvel's god didn't step in.
Really?

Where is this stated and/or depicted.

Originally posted by fangirl101

in the end,
a guy named the molecule man was able to thwart the beyonder's power to destroy everything.
how can he be supreme if someone like the molecule man,
a creation of marvel's god, was able to stop his plan?
marvel's god created a being that was able to divert the power of the beyonder. by that alone, marvel's god>>>>>>>>>>>>>moleculeman.
This is all inconsequential.

I was one of the most adamant supporters of this mis-information.

Until we later learned that Beyonder allowed MM to re-direct his power into the Beyond realm.

Beyonder just wanted to leave the Multiverse,
and he chose this method to do so.


So in the end,
MM did not thwart anything, unless Beyonder willed it.

Originally posted by fangirl101

also, the beyonder never fought the LT
....................................................................

The LT was afraid of the Beyonder, Desperate in FACT:

....................................................................

When Uatu gathered the Cosmic Hierarchy (the LT included)

the In-Betweener says about Mephisto,

"Surely this is his day of last resorts ... he is desperate ... AS ARE WE"

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2595/beyo1hr6.th.jpg

I believe "WE" included the LT (who is there)

................................................................................................

After Beyonder erased Death from the Multiverse,
the Hierarchy (including the LT) accepts their fate,

then the MM shows up and they all step aside: (as if salvation arrived)

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1442/26796258iu4.th.jpg

LOL!
................................................................................................


Even more EMBARRASSING,

the Living Tribunal and the hierarchy literally,
were quaking in their pants at the thought of what Beyonder would do,
if Eternity failed,
when Eternity actually mustered some courage to attempt an attack:

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8900/beto2za1.th.jpg

"The Mighty of the MULTIVERSE (the LT included) TREMBLE"


(who has ever made the LT tremble? Or heck, show any fear at all?)
................................................................................................

Originally posted by fangirl101

and if marvel's god had said,
i'm going to give you the power to beat this beyonder, it would have happened. why? becuz in actuality, marvel's god, is the creator of even the beyonder.
Marvel's god would've asked,

... "why are you taking over my drop of water,
when you have an ocean?" ...

Originally posted by fangirl101

now, according to what i gather from the end saga, thanos with the heart was given the power of marvel's god, by god himself, by being used as a puppet. in actuality, thanos, even tho he was on paper, was in fact the chosen avatar of marvel's god. this would make him supreme to the classic beyonder as the classic beyonder was not a chosen avatar. he couldn't have been becuz he did not possess marvel's universe. it was not his creation.
THOTI = Supreme Being.

classic Beyonder = Supreme Being.


Stalemate.


btw. You claim that God chose Thanos as his personal avatar,
not true but,
Beyonder was indeed stated to be "GOD before Genesis"

========= "GOD before Genesis" ===========

By Jim Shooter himself (Editor in-Chief of Marvel at the time, Writer/Creator of Secret Wars)

Originally posted by fangirl101

so i change my opinion. thanos with the heart wins this.
An opinion fo sho.

Originally posted by Galan007
Question.

Since all the universes of the Marvel multiverse exist on the same physical space, separated only by vibrational frequency. If one unleashed the power to destroy a single universe, but said attack threw out multiple vibrational frequencies, wouldn't that attack destroy multiple universes?

Hope that made sense.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool, all honest opinions (unsupported or not) are respected.


And yet,
he was the only being all the infinite prime Multiverse that figure out how to re-create Death.

That means that everyone in the Multiverse now is dumb.

Beyonder was the God of the Beyond Realm when he was there,
and he was the God of the Multiverse when he was there.




Really?

Where is this stated and/or depicted.


This is all inconsequential.

I was one of the most adamant supporters of this mis-information.

Until we later learned that Beyonder allowed MM to re-direct his power into the Beyond realm.

Beyonder just wanted to leave the Multiverse,
and he chose this method to do so.


So in the end,
MM did not thwart anything, unless Beyonder willed it.


....................................................................

The LT was afraid of the Beyonder, Desperate in FACT:

....................................................................

When Uatu gathered the Cosmic Hierarchy (the LT included)

the In-Betweener says about Mephisto,

"Surely this is his day of last resorts ... he is desperate ... AS ARE WE"

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2595/beyo1hr6.th.jpg

I believe "WE" included the LT (who is there)

................................................................................................

After Beyonder erased Death from the Multiverse,
the Hierarchy (including the LT) accepts their fate,

then the MM shows up and they all step aside: (as if salvation arrived)

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1442/26796258iu4.th.jpg

LOL!
................................................................................................


Even more EMBARRASSING,

the Living Tribunal and the hierarchy literally,
were quaking in their pants at the thought of what Beyonder would do,
if Eternity failed,
when Eternity actually mustered some courage to attempt an attack:

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8900/beto2za1.th.jpg

"The Mighty of the MULTIVERSE (the LT included) TREMBLE"


(who has ever made the LT tremble? Or heck, show any fear at all?)
................................................................................................


Marvel's god would've asked,

... "why are you taking over my drop of water,
when you have an ocean?" ...


THOTI = Supreme Being.

classic Beyonder = Supreme Being.


Stalemate.


btw. You claim that God chose Thanos as his personal avatar,
not true but,
Beyonder was indeed stated to be "GOD before Genesis"

========= "GOD before Genesis" ===========

By Jim Shooter himself (Editor in-Chief of Marvel at the time, Writer/Creator of Secret Wars)


An opinion fo sho.
i dont' agree. we already know why the lt didn't fight the beyonder. he was faking being afraid. while thanos embarrassed the lt with finality. thanos with the heart is greater than the lt, who is greater than the beyonder.

Originally posted by fangirl101
i dont' agree. we already know why the lt didn't fight the beyonder. he was faking being afraid. while thanos embarrassed the lt with finality. thanos with the heart is greater than the lt, who is greater than the beyonder.
nvr, get the hell out of here.

Originally posted by Air Legend

nvr, get the hell out of here.
I just noticed it was him in the Parallax vs Thanos thread.

He's baaaack! fear

Originally posted by Air Legend
nvr, get the hell out of here.

are you asking me to never leave?

What is it you want to know,knowsbleed?

What Thanos did with the heart that you believe trumps anything PR Beyonder did. Remembering Beyonder was collapsing whole Universes because he was thinking too hard.

and GO!

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
What Thanos did with the heart that you believe trumps anything PR Beyonder did. Remembering Beyonder was collapsing whole Universes because he was thinking too hard.

and GO! And?


Thanos effortlessly destroyed Celestials,beat the Lt,Eternity,Infinity,and the rest of this force that was assembled to defeat Thanos. Thanos wasnt even exerting himself. Thanos has more impressive battle feats.

Thanos destroyed 1 Celestial on panel and absorbed LT, Eternity and Infinity.

PR Beyonder H2H dominated a whole planet of Celestials.

Next?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Thanos destroyed 1 Celestial on panel and absorbed LT, Eternity and Infinity.

PR Beyonder H2H dominated a whole planet of Celestials.

Next? Lt>a planet of Celestials.

He absorbed the LT because he had already begun to absorb the whole parallel universe at that point.

Originally posted by fangirl101
i dont' agree. we already know why the lt didn't fight the beyonder. he was faking being afraid. while thanos embarrassed the lt with finality. thanos with the heart is greater than the lt, who is greater than the beyonder. I wish you were dead.

Thanos 1 shots him.

Why was this thread bumped? angryfist

... nooooo ... lol.

sigh, this is a classic case of immovable object meets irresistable force. each is mutually exclusive, but people forget it and forcibly bring together two realities which are rectonned in exactly the way which excludes the other. they meet, and well, the same thing happens when u divide by zero, a paradox is created and they are both overwhelmed and killed.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
He absorbed the LT because he had already begun to absorb the whole parallel universe at that point. It was already understood that the Lt had zero chance against him with the combined forces fighting by his side. Thanos basically laughed at them.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
sigh, this is a classic case of immovable object meets irresistable force. each is mutually exclusive, but people forget it and forcibly bring together two realities which are rectonned in exactly the way which excludes the other. they meet, and well, the same thing happens when u divide by zero, a paradox is created and they are both overwhelmed and killed. Leon are you coming onto me?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I wish you were dead. Originally posted by joesdabest1
Thanos 1 shots him. This guy cracks me up as well.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It was already understood that the Lt had zero chance against him with the combined forces fighting by his side. Thanos basically laughed at them.

He absorbed 1 parallel universe and he was duped into doing it.

I ask you again, how was Thanos with the heart more impressive than PR Beyonder?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
He absorbed 1 parallel universe and he was duped into doing it.

I ask you again, how was Thanos with the heart more impressive than PR Beyonder? I already told you. He was supreme,god,etc. This battle would test them both. But,I think Thanos' feats are more impressive because he outright dominated Celestials,Lt,Eternity,Infinity,etc. like small pandas.

Beyonder doesnt have more impressive battle feats and if you think so you are welcome to share it with me.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

He absorbed 1 parallel universe and he was duped into doing it.
I have to disagree here friend.

Thanos absorbed the 616 Reality,
and from there continued to absorb all creation across the entire Marvel Universe.

Warlock was spared because he's an anomaly that exists outside the influence of time/space.

Death, also exists outside of the Marvel Universe Actuality. (imo, it was love)

That's it.
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

I ask you again,
how was Thanos with the heart more impressive than PR Beyonder?
Thanos became "God" ... the Almighty Supreme Being of the entire Marvel Universe.

Imo, Beyonder was more impressive if we detail out all the facts,
but nevertheless,
since Thanos became the Supreme Being below the true OAA.

The battle is a stalemate,

God vs God = stalemate.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree here friend.

Thanos absorbed the 616 Reality,
and from there continued to absorb all creation across the entire Marvel Universe.

Warlock was spared because he's an anomaly that exists outside the influence of time/space.

Death, also exists outside of the Marvel Universe Actuality. (imo, it was love)

That's it.

Thanos became "God" ... the Almighty Supreme Being of the entire Marvel Universe.

Imo, Beyonder was more impressive if we detail out all the facts,
but nevertheless,
since Thanos became the Supreme Being below the true OAA.

The battle is a stalemate,

God vs God = stalemate.

correct-a-mundo.
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/7229/garyknighten0.th.jpg

whoever bumped this thread deserves to have the shit beat out of them. srsly.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree here friend.

Thanos absorbed the 616 Reality,
and from there continued to absorb all creation across the entire Marvel Universe.

He absorbed Earth-4321.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

He absorbed Earth-4321.

.......................................................................................

Thanos absorbed everything while standing withIN the 616 Universe.

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687657_At1.jpg

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687658_At2.jpg

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687664_allhecould5ip7.jpg

"You & Gamora were outside This Reality,
tending Atleza, this Actuality's Cosmic Anchor"

.......................................................................................


Here's the proof,

Atleza .. IS the 616 Reality Cosmic Anchor:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687656_End2.jpg

(that's the official Marvel Handbook - 2006 - Atleza bio)

.......................................................................................


If this isn't satisfactory,
we have Jim Starlin (Writer/creator of Thanos/THOTI/IG and of said stories)

.............................................................................


Jim Starlin interview: (the Writer/Creator of The End: Marvel)

http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=000382 (middle of the interview/page)

"Thanos and the resurrected Pharaoh Akhenaten compete for the ultimate power"

"Figured if I was going to kill off the entire Marvel Universe
it ought to be the real thing"

.............................................................................


The real, entire Marvel Universe.

You do realize that none of those scans say it's the 616 continuum right? Not to mention the fact that Marvel: The End took place in Earth-4321 according to marvel themselves.

It's non-canonical. Scroll down to the "Comments" section.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/akhenaton.htm

It even suggests why Thanos remembers the events in The End during his 12 issue mini.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

You do realize that none of those scans say it's the 616 continuum right?
You must've missed this:


http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687656_End2.jpg

Atleza

History: ... A succession of beings
have secured Earth-616's Reality's proper place within the cosmic vortex...

Occupation: Anchor of Earth-616's Reality.

.............................................................................

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687664_allhecould5ip7.jpg

"You & Gamora were outside This Reality,
tending Atleza, this Actuality's Cosmic Anchor"

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Not to mention the fact that Marvel: The End took place in Earth-4321 according to marvel themselves.
"according to Marvel themselves?"

I disagree.

4321, is one of 616 past Timelines, the year 1331:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687665_End1.jpg

(official Marvel Handbook Akhenaten bip - 2006)

.............................................................................


4321 was depicted in the Marvel: The End in a few panels in issue 1 and 2:

4321 concerns Akhenaten's origin in specific,

HE came from Reality 4321, not the Arc itself.

..............................................................................................................


Doom uses his Time Machine to reach the Timeline Aknehaten is from (4321)

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2032/thoi7hf5.th.jpg

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/7536/thoi8qm3.th.jpg

"I depart the Present (616) and return to when Aknehaten was but a mere Mortal"

(in reality 4321 which is a Past Timeline of the 616 Reality)

..............................................................................................................


Here Akhenaten guards his mortal form in Reality 4321 (a Past Timeline of 616)

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1897/thoi9ej4.th.jpg

"Did you believe I would leave my Past unguarded"

"And so History continued unchanged, under the watchful eye of it's dark guardian"


..............................................................................................................


Here Akhenaten himself states,
that the Celestial Order,
ventured into different Realities/Timelines to find him and others:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3156/thoi6lz6.th.jpg

"Through Time and Space they searched for their chosen few"

..............................................................................................................


If the Celestial Order was crossing Time & Space,

then they were visiting Timelines, which are Realities/Universes of their own.

The end isn't canon. It says that Thanos remembers some of the events becuz something similiar happened in the 616 but it doesn't specifics.

Originally posted by fangirl101
The end isn't canon. It says that Thanos remembers some of the events becuz something similiar happened in the 616 but it doesn't specifics. Why does your argument have to fail so much?

Originally posted by Red Hulk
Why does your argument have to fail so much?
Why do you care so much?

Originally posted by fangirl101
Why do you care so much? I don't.

But reading such a failure hurts my head. Think of someone else for a change.

2005 handbook states The End took place in Earth-4321.

Originally posted by fangirl101

The end isn't canon.
It says that Thanos remembers some of the events
becuz something similiar happened in the 616 but it doesn't specifics.
Thanos destroyed the same Eternity that Entropy/Genis destoyed.

I suppose Entropy/Genis destroyed something similar too then.

.................................................................................


(This is from the actual Marvel Handbook Bio 2006) - Eternity

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7417/58790925tc2.th.jpg

"Thanos claimed the Power of THOTI,

Eternity opposed Thanos once more,

Thanos destroyed ALL of Reality"


.................................................................................


(This is from the actual Marvel Handbook Bio 2006) - Living Tribunal

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/373/ltbioan2.th.jpg

"Thanos destroyed ALL that Existed with his power ...
and then Restored Reality"

.................................................................................


(This is from the actual Marvel Handbook Bio 2006) - Infinity

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6981/inth3.th.jpg

"Thanos used THOTI to destroy All Reality"


.................................................................................

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos destroyed the same Eternity that Entropy/Genis destoyed.

I suppose Entropy/Genis destroyed something similar too then.

.................................................................................


(This is from the actual Marvel Handbook Bio 2006) - Eternity

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7417/58790925tc2.th.jpg

"Thanos claimed the Power of THOTI,

Eternity opposed Thanos once more,

Thanos destroyed ALL of Reality"


.................................................................................


(This is from the actual Marvel Handbook Bio 2006) - Living Tribunal

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/373/ltbioan2.th.jpg

"Thanos destroyed ALL that Existed with his power ...
and then Restored Reality"

.................................................................................


(This is from the actual Marvel Handbook Bio 2006) - Infinity

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6981/inth3.th.jpg

"Thanos used THOTI to destroy All Reality"


.................................................................................
what does Thanos's bio say about the matter? Eternity and infinity are multifaceted beings. Of course they would oppose any version of thanos. What does his 616 bio say?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

2005 handbook states The End took place in Earth-4321.
That's funny, Winter 2007 official Marvel Handbooks say it happened in 616.

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687712_2007.jpg

(Lord Chaos & Master Order bio)

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Yeah well, Marvel is having continuity issues up the wazoo. Fact is they say The End took place in Earth-4321. I'm inclined to agree.

At times marvel cant keep up with continuality within a single page!?!

I share your frustrations.

Originally posted by fangirl101
what does Thanos's bio say about the matter? Eternity and infinity are multifaceted beings. Of course they would oppose any version of thanos. What does his 616 bio say? Nvr, since Quan made arranging a battlezone impossible, I went to his double.

You wanna battlezone?