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The match will start as of the time this is posted and last until Sunday at midnight pacific Standard time.

The characters used will be:
Akuki: Caerula Sanguis
StylishSmurph: Spiderman

The battlefield will be in the danger room which has been programmed for Nightcrawler's practice session.


There are 3 judges who Smurph can post later.


Let the battle commence!

Bumping just in case smurph didn't see it.

All right, here we go. Sorry I'm late.

First off- we're in the danger room. That automatically gives Spider-Man the edge, as he knows the nature and danger of the room certainly better than Caerula. Plus, it has been programmed for Nightcrawler's practice session- Nightcrawler, who is physically akin to a dollar-store Spider-Man, with the exception of the teleporting. But, all Danger Room devices and programs intended to interfere, hinder or stop the teleporting, Spider-Man will be able to detect before hand, and move to dodge. In that sense, he'd be better than Nightcrawler, because he could dodge it before Nightcrawler would even think to teleport.

So the battlefield will be of little consequence to me.

My opponent, on the other hand, possesses something similar, but not nearly as potent as a Spider Sense.

Spider sense feats-

Reacting, moving out, and sending out a warning to save those around him from a bomb before it explodes
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1081/feat17ssbj6.jpg

Can pinpoint danger easily, and can detect all potential danger
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1539/feat42ss1rs0.jpg

Can act as his sight, and warn him of everything, even loose boards
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1918/feat42ss2gi4.jpg

Dodges punches and gunfire before they're thrown-
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6675/feat42ss3dm6.jpg

So Spider-Man is never going to be harmed by the danger room, or hit by his opponent.

Caerula's bullet deflection feats even come with the descriptor that she doesn't react to them after they're shot- jut instinctively knows how to react to bullet fire. She even describes it as specific to bullet fire.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm_LO_Vol08_167.jpg

Frankly, I've seen Daredevil do things much similar with shorter weapons.

It's not super speed, it's just instinctive reaction and reflexes. I've seen Deathstroke with better.

Neither Deathstroke nor Daredevil would stand a chance of hitting Spider-Man in a PIS-less situation. He would dance circles around them.

-----------------------------

Spidey's superior to his opponent in every possible way. He can one-shot her (evidence of his strength, even in punches)
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/207/feat1fight5oh1.jpg
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3324/feat1fight6aj4.jpg

Notice the punch had no momentum, and we've even seen him with more impressive strenght feats.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6553/feat1strenghtvi6.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8264/feat11strenght1xp1.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/447/feat11strenght2lb7.jpg

He's way more agile than anything we've seen from Caerula. In this environment, the danger room will constantly be spanwing a destructible environment- stuff that Spidey can smack, impale and crush his opponent with. He'll be all over the environment, using every inch of it to his advantage. There is hardly ANYBODY IN COMICS that makes superior use of the environment that Spider-Man. And we're in one that will be constantly changing, that with his Spider sense telling him what changes will be made, he can always use to his advantage.

----------------------------

Spider-Man is superior to his opponents in every way. He's WAY faster than anything we've seen from Caerula, beyond some small reaction feats... Spidey will be dancing circles around her, filling her with > Cl. 20 punches, faster than she can react.

On the note of reaction feats, Spidey's capable of moving before a gun fires, but he can dodge bullets after they're fired as well. This one can't be more than a foot away and he can still dodge it.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7329/feat42speedmw3.jpg


Speedblitzing-
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/286/feat6fight3hz8.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4959/feat6fight19ux4.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/139/feat41fight5tr3.jpg

Realistically, with Spidey's move, attack, and reaction speed, on top of the fact that every hit is going to send Caerula reeling, or just knock her out.

She needs multiple chances to even nick him once, thanks to his reaction speed, spider sense, and completely unmatched agility.

He'll need one solid hit to take her out, even without using anything from the environment. Even if his blows are glancing, every one is going to send his opponent realing.

-------------------------------

And, knowingly sounding like a broken record, Spider-Man is superior to his opponent in EVERY. SINGLE. WAY.

Let's look at range- Akuki says Caerula would be able to dodge the webbing Spidey can use.

Lulz at that- we've discovered she's nothing more than a Deathstroke without the smarts, gadgets or strength.

Extremis Iron Man, whose thoughts are measured in the minute fractions of a second, couldn't react to the webbing. Spidey's sheer webbing output would be beyond what Caerula could deal with.

Iron Man feat-
http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wizardmagazine186shaw00vh1.jpg
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wizardmagazine186shaw00cd7.jpg

In addition to webbing as range, he can toss anything in the room he can get his hands on, with tons and tons of force behind it.

--------------------------------

As for redirecting motion, that really has no application in this fight. She's fighting perhaps the most agile person in the entire MU, with movement speeds and reaction feats and a precog sense that add up to never being hit, much less redirected. The webbing would just flow around her sword, and she'd be buried under so much rubble from the Danger Room's metal objects tossed at her that soon she won't be able to redirect anything.

------------------------------

To sum up the battle, it's Spider-Man vs. a sub-par Daredevil.

Meh.

Also, thanks to everyone with a respect thread that I stole scans from. I <3 DC and his thread. Less work for Smurph.

The judges, as pre-arranged, are Blair, Soljer and Priest.

Also, it's important to note that I'm using pre-OMD-retcon Spider-Man.

Anyways, vote Smurph, yada yada.

Ok there are a couple of charges to counter here:

Caerula has danced circles around fighters that move at the speed of sound and who have supersonic punches, Spiderman's speed will not be an issue for her.
Alita is recorded as moving at Mach .94, and this is an earlier body, which is upgraded when she fights Caerula:
http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x37/AldricAPF/th_BA01-199.jpg
Alita clearly demonstrates her attacks are supersonic:
http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x37/AldricAPF/th_BattleAngelAlitaBook09AngelsAscensi.jpg http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x37/AldricAPF/th_BattleAngelAlitaBook09AngelsAsce-1.jpg

As for Smurph's charge that Caerula won't be able to handle the strength diference, that ludicrous. Caerula regularly fights opponents that are at least spidey strength if not far above:
This is a strength feat by Sechs, who possesses the same type of cyborg body as Alita, Caerula's opponent:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-112.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-113.jpg
Also Alita is at least as strong or stronger than Spiderman
Tosses a giant steel pillar at a giant robot to knock it down:
http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x37/AldricAPF/th_GUNNMLOv02c08067.jpg

In addition to this Spiderman also has to deal with Caerula's projectiles, she's shown the ability to throw several hundred throwing knives at once with near perfect accuracy. Add in her ability to know where spiderman will go next and Spidermans is going to be a pincushion:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-041.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-042.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-043.jpg



Caerula's vampire eye is in no way inferior to Spideysense, in many ways it is superior to it. Let's clear up a couple of misconceptions that Smurph has pointed out.


This feat occurs before Caerula gains her vampire eye ability, so Caerula is reacting to those bullets without the benefit of any type of precog ability, just pure skill.


Also the danger room presents absolutely no danger to Sanguis. If you will note in the description of her power it is described as being able to percieve:
In addition to this it also has the ability to detect an opponents neural pulse flow. This means that Caerula can react to any strike that Spiderman throws before he actually throws it. Combine that with her far superior martial arts technique and this is a slaughter.

Now Caerula's major strength is her ability to predict her opponents movement and plans, keep in mind that Alita is a martial artist whose skill dwarfs that of nearly any person in the Marvel universe:
The technique in action against Alita:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-053.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-054.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-055.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-056.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-057.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-058.jpg
Caerula explains how she is able to manipulate her opponents:
url]http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-079.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-080.jpg

Finally I think you guys are massively underestimating the strength of the opponents that Caerula is fighting:
Here's Caerula's apprentice toying with an opponent who is around Spiderman stregnth, and who is around sound speed, and DANCES ON HIS BLADE as she slams every single pressure pointCaerula also mentions she taught the founder of this style, so we can be pretty damn sure she knows it)
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-188.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-189.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-190.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-191.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-192.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-193.jpg

This same apprentice is taken out by Alita in 2 STRIKES:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO05-205.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO05-206.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO05-2072p.jpg

Continued

This is just a cool example of what happens to people who fight Alita in close combat:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-150-151.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-160.jpg
Now lets she what happens when Alita fights Caerula:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-024.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-025.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-026.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-027.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-028.jpg

Originally posted by Akuki
Ok there are a couple of charges to counter here:

Caerula has danced circles around fighters that move at the speed of sound and who have supersonic punches, Spiderman's speed will not be an issue for her.
Alita is recorded as moving at Mach .94, and this is an earlier body, which is upgraded when she fights Caerula:
http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x37/AldricAPF/th_BA01-199.jpg
Alita clearly demonstrates her attacks are supersonic:
http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x37/AldricAPF/th_BattleAngelAlitaBook09AngelsAscensi.jpg http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x37/AldricAPF/th_BattleAngelAlitaBook09AngelsAsce-1.jpg
That's wonderful for Alita, but she's not being debated here.

And besides that, again, Deathstroke has tagged Flashes before, and every street leveler has dodges bullets. Neither of them would tag Spider-Man often.

She'll be webbed up, always at risk of the Danger Room taking her out of the battle, and Spider-Man will be all around her with his agility. His speed will definitely be a problem for her.

Originally posted by Akuki
As for Smurph's charge that Caerula won't be able to handle the strength diference, that ludicrous. Caerula regularly fights opponents that are at least spidey strength if not far above:
This is a strength feat by Sechs, who possesses the same type of cyborg body as Alita, Caerula's opponent:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-112.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-113.jpg
Also Alita is at least as strong or stronger than Spiderman
Tosses a giant steel pillar at a giant robot to knock it down:
http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x37/AldricAPF/th_GUNNMLOv02c08067.jpg


I notice the distinct lack of scans of Caerula being hit by them. Noting her vampire eye, it seems much more likely she simply avoided or rolled with the punches... I wouldn't say Daredevil can take these hits from Spider-Man.

Spider-Man, using his speed, agility, strength and spidey sense in combination, took down Absorbing Man. Firelord, a herald of Galactus. An alternate reality Iron Man.

Caerula doesn't register on the scale.


Originally posted by Akuki
In addition to this Spiderman also has to deal with Caerula's projectiles, she's shown the ability to throw several hundred throwing knives at once with near perfect accuracy. Add in her ability to know where spiderman will go next and Spidermans is going to be a pincushion:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-041.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-042.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-043.jpg



Caerula's vampire eye is in no way inferior to Spideysense, in many ways it is superior to it.

crylaugh

First off, are these knives standard equipment? She regularly carries several hundred throwing knives with her? Spider-Man's strong enough to rip and tear pieces of the Danger Room's constructs off to use as ammo, and it would appear that she isn't.

Secondly, it wouldn't matter even if it was standard equip. Spider-Man has shown to be capable of dodging machine gun fire from people with incredible accuracy. A bunch of knives won't be a problem. Add in his Spidey sense, and his speed and agility which means she might not even be able to track his movements as he's all around her, and it will look like a joke.

Thirdly, I haven't seen anything from the vampire eye that would indicate it was better than Spider-Man's spider sense. The SS lets Spidey know about an explosion well before it happens and make sure everyone around him gets back. It pinoints the nature, location and timing of each threat all around him with ample time to react to it. He's a legitimate bullet timer. Again, Caerula doesn't stack up.

Originally posted by Akuki
Let's clear up a couple of misconceptions that Smurph has pointed out.


This feat occurs before Caerula gains her vampire eye ability, so Caerula is reacting to those bullets without the benefit of any type of precog ability, just pure skill. She mentions if the bullet has already been fired, it's too late. She also mentioned it comes from a heightened consciousness that is particular to when bullets are fired at her.

Anyways, it's just heightened reaction speeds. Nothing Spider-Man can't deal with.

Originally posted by Akuki
Also the danger room presents absolutely no danger to Sanguis. If you will note in the description of her power it is described as being able to percieve:
In addition to this it also has the ability to detect an opponents neural pulse flow. This means that Caerula can react to any strike that Spiderman throws before he actually throws it. Combine that with her far superior martial arts technique and this is a slaughter. So he's fighting... Daredevil?

Meh.

Everytime she moves, he'll be there first because of his superior attack speed. Every blow he lands will be Cl. 20- the only way you showed her to be able to deal with this was to anticipate the movements of someone stronger than her. But with his own Spider Sense and thus far seemingly superior attack speed, that advantage will be entirely negated. And she has no durability feats. One-shotted, much?

Not to mention she'll be webbed up, where it will be extremely hard to dodge the Danger Room. And Spider-Man will be all around her, as she has nothing to match his agility feats.

Originally posted by Akuki
Now Caerula's major strength is her ability to predict her opponents movement and plans, keep in mind that Alita is a martial artist whose skill dwarfs that of nearly any person in the Marvel universe:
The technique in action against Alita:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-053.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-054.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-055.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-056.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-057.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-058.jpg
Caerula explains how she is able to manipulate her opponents:
url]http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-079.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-080.jpg If her strength relies on her predicting her opponents moves, she's already screwed, as Spider-Man's own spider sense negates any such advantage. Then it comes down to raw physical ability, where Spider-Man completely owns her. Not to mention, Spider-Man still has the webbing advantage.

Originally posted by Akuki
Finally I think you guys are massively underestimating the strength of the opponents that Caerula is fighting:
Here's Caerula's apprentice toying with an opponent who is around Spiderman stregnth, and who is around sound speed, and DANCES ON HIS BLADE as she slams every single pressure pointCaerula also mentions she taught the founder of this style, so we can be pretty damn sure she knows it)
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-188.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-189.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-190.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-191.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-192.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO05-193.jpg
That says nothing about his strength... only details that she can stand on surfaces like a gecko.



Not to mention, Spider-Man's strength is in combination with his speed, spider sense, agility and webbing. Which all contain the superior feats so far.

Originally posted by Akuki
This same apprentice is taken out by Alita in 2 STRIKES:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO05-205.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO05-206.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO05-2072p.jpg Again, this is a debate concerning Caerula, not Alita.

So, to summarize:

Spider-Man has the superior feats in:

Strength
Speed
Agility
Spider Sense (vs. the Vampire eye)

He also has the advantage in range, especially with the webbing, which was never countered. The webbing could end this fight as soon as it starts.

Is this over?

If not- more spider sense/bullet dodging feats for Spidey:

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/4203/feat39speed2lr8.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8741/feat5equipment8oh3.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1697/feat16speedrm0.jpg

Ok Smurph couple of points to go over:
1. The reason I post so much stuff about Alita is the simple reason that most people here are unfamiliar with the series, and the many of Sanguis's feats are made far more impressive by knowing just what her opponents are capable of.

2. You keep down grading the vampire's eye ability, and really underestimating it. First of all as described in the scan it gives Caerula complete knowledge of the surrounding area. She was able to predict all the bullet paths and shrapnel paths of many machine guns firing at her, even detecting the movement of the air molecules.
Your also ignoring the secondary part of the ability to see neural pulse flow. Anytime spiderman wants to move any part of his body his brain needs to send a signal to the limb to move. Caerula is able to see that signal and use it to react to what he's doing before he does it. Spidersense will not help him out with this. Spiderman wants to shoot Caerula with webbing. To do that he has to send a signal to his arm to move and fire the webbing. However because of the vampire eye, Caerula will know exactly where and in what direction Spiderman will shoot the webbing before his arm even starts moving. Caerula literally knows what spidey will do before his body does.

Also in close combat this advantage is even more pronounced, say Spiderman uses spideysense to dodge an attack that is coming. When his spideysense kicks in his brain will send a pulse to his varius limbs to dodge the coming attack. Caerula can see this and simply moves her attack to correct for the dodge, and spiderman gets spitted anyways.

3. The martial arts in the Alita manga are vicious, and quite honestly I doubt Spiderman could survive for for than a second or two in close combat with Caerula. Lesser martial artists in the series often explode the brains of opponents use vibrations from punches.

4. Spiderman honestly isn't that fast compared to the normal people that Caerula fights, I showed several times how Alita is both a supersonic puncher, and her abilities in close combat fighting far outweigh spiderman. Caerula is simply used to fighting faster people and then making them eat dust.

5. Spiderman's agility isn't all that uncommon in the Alitaverse, I just showed you the agility feat Caerula's apprentice showed, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything that impressive in Spiderman's repertoire.

I'd like to propose what I see as the likely scenario in this fight. Caerula will likely start out the fight by launching some of her throwing knives(yes they are her standard equipment). She'll use them to but time in order to allow herself to get in close to Spiderman. should she get within even a 15 feet or so, this will be a done thing. One of the major differences between Caerula and spiderman, is simply that Caerula is far more lethal. Spiderman uses blunt force punches, which Caerula can use her skills to easily minimize the damage from, while Caerula uses strikes which either strike to her opponents lethal areas, or simply slices off their head.


Your comparison with Daredevil isn't really all that apt either. Caerula is what happens when you take someone with martial arts abilities that far exceed Daredevil's, give them superhuman strength, swords that can cut through metal that is as hard as diamond, and the ability to see exactly what their opponent is going to do before they act on it.

Originally posted by Akuki
Ok Smurph couple of points to go over:
1. The reason I post so much stuff about Alita is the simple reason that most people here are unfamiliar with the series, and the many of Sanguis's feats are made far more impressive by knowing just what her opponents are capable of. Even though her opponents never use their strength or speed in the fights against her?

Originally posted by Akuki
2. You keep down grading the vampire's eye ability, and really underestimating it. First of all as described in the scan it gives Caerula complete knowledge of the surrounding area. She was able to predict all the bullet paths and shrapnel paths of many machine guns firing at her, even detecting the movement of the air molecules.
Your also ignoring the secondary part of the ability to see neural pulse flow. Anytime spiderman wants to move any part of his body his brain needs to send a signal to the limb to move. Caerula is able to see that signal and use it to react to what he's doing before he does it. Spidersense will not help him out with this. Spiderman wants to shoot Caerula with webbing. To do that he has to send a signal to his arm to move and fire the webbing. However because of the vampire eye, Caerula will know exactly where and in what direction Spiderman will shoot the webbing before his arm even starts moving. Caerula literally knows what spidey will do before his body does. No, I'm not downgrading anything. All of that is exactly what Daredevil can do, and is even inferior to Spider-Man's, because Spidey's SS gives him more time to react, as it has warned him of danger before anything's happened. He doesn't rely on air waves to tell him a bomb has gone off, as he already knew beforehand.

Originally posted by Akuki
Also in close combat this advantage is even more pronounced, say Spiderman uses spideysense to dodge an attack that is coming. When his spideysense kicks in his brain will send a pulse to his varius limbs to dodge the coming attack. Caerula can see this and simply moves her attack to correct for the dodge, and spiderman gets spitted anyways. Except that when Caerula moves her attack to connect with the dodge, Spider-Man will already know (spidey sense), and will again alter his dodge.

So then it comes down to who has the superior dodging/functioning speed, correct?

The seconds that Caerula takes to adjust her aim?

They're like hours to Spider-Man.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6668/feat27sswe5.jpg

He'll be thinking way ahead of every adjustment, attack and dodge she attempts to make. He'll already be there.

Originally posted by Akuki
3. The martial arts in the Alita manga are vicious, and quite honestly I doubt Spiderman could survive for for than a second or two in close combat with Caerula. Lesser martial artists in the series often explode the brains of opponents use vibrations from punches. Which you haven't shown her doing...

In fact, with all that you've shown, it would seem being in close quarters combat with, say, Wolverine would be much more dangerous. But Spidey holds his own there, and he'll decimate Caerula right from the start with webbing. She's completely screwed.

Originally posted by Akuki
4. Spiderman honestly isn't that fast compared to the normal people that Caerula fights, I showed several times how Alita is both a supersonic puncher, and her abilities in close combat fighting far outweigh spiderman. Caerula is simply used to fighting faster people and then making them eat dust. Ironically though, Spider-Man's held his own against people faster than him. For ages at a time. Caerula can keep up with Spidey level speed. Sipidey can keep up with faster than that.

Caerula is used to being able to keep up with fast people because of the vampire eye. But not she's forced to try to keep up with someone super fast, who possesses a vampire eye 2.0

Who will be ahead of her every step because of his superior precog and his superior speed.

And she'll be stuck to the floor with webbing, if not suffocating in it.

Did I mention that?

Oh, good.

Originally posted by Akuki
5. Spiderman's agility isn't all that uncommon in the Alitaverse, I just showed you the agility feat Caerula's apprentice showed, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything that impressive in Spiderman's repertoire. That was really nothing.

Take a look at the speedblitzing scans I posted. At Spider-Man's enormous amount of appearances where the artist has to draw 20 faded pictures of him because he's moving and changing direction so many times.

That's agility.

Originally posted by Akuki
I'd like to propose what I see as the likely scenario in this fight. Caerula will likely start out the fight by launching some of her throwing knives(yes they are her standard equipment). She'll use them to but time in order to allow herself to get in close to Spiderman. should she get within even a 15 feet or so, this will be a done thing. One of the major differences between Caerula and spiderman, is simply that Caerula is far more lethal. Spiderman uses blunt force punches, which Caerula can use her skills to easily minimize the damage from, while Caerula uses strikes which either strike to her opponents lethal areas, or simply slices off their head.


Your comparison with Daredevil isn't really all that apt either. Caerula is what happens when you take someone with martial arts abilities that far exceed Daredevil's, give them superhuman strength, swords that can cut through metal that is as hard as diamond, and the ability to see exactly what their opponent is going to do before they act on it. I'd like to propose what I see as the likely scenario. Spider-Man webs her up at the start of the fight. The he walks over and one-shots her.

As for the comparison... so, this is Deathstroke, minus any ranged attacks and superhuman thinking speed?

MEH.

Spider-Man still wins.

1. her opponents do use their strength and speed against her, she just nullifies it all with her skills and dodging ability.

2. However you also have to take into account Caerula's ability to manipulate her opponent, she doesn't just use her vampire's eye, she uses her attacks to force her opponents into a corner, and then destroy them.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-079.jpg
You know those hundreds of knives she threw in the first part of the fight? She used them to write the kanji for death. Not only does that demonstrate an amazing skill and accuracy with the knives, it shows that she had been able to plan out the entire fight to her predetermined ending. Caerula fights much like a chess match, seeing hundreds of moves ahead, and she's the world grandmaster, with spiderman being the grandpa who enjoys playing for fun in the park.
As Trinidad describes her:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-056.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-058.jpg
Note how she's able to predict Alita's movement even before she begins to move:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Gunnm-LO06-054.jpg

3. Caerula is able to adjust her aim very easily, even in mid strike. For example here she decides to spare Alita and redirects her strike by merely twitching her wrist, when you combine that with her being able to see neural flows, spidey won't be able to dodge that.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-088.jpg

4. You continue to insist that Spidey will be able to get off the webbing before the gets into close combat, it simply isn't going to happen. While spidey sense is simply a general danger sense, Caerula's power is basically the ability to foresee exactly what her opponent is going to do, and react to it before they take action. With those circumstances Spiderman's hits simply aren't going to land.

Originally posted by Akuki
1. her opponents do use their strength and speed against her, she just nullifies it all with her skills and dodging ability. So it's really not a durability feat at all to fight someone who never hits you, or a speed feat to dodge something when you have precog...

Originally posted by Akuki
2. However you also have to take into account Caerula's ability to manipulate her opponent, she doesn't just use her vampire's eye, she uses her attacks to force her opponents into a corner, and then destroy them.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-079.jpg
You know those hundreds of knives she threw in the first part of the fight? She used them to write the kanji for death. Not only does that demonstrate an amazing skill and accuracy with the knives, it shows that she had been able to plan out the entire fight to her predetermined ending. Caerula fights much like a chess match, seeing hundreds of moves ahead, and she's the world grandmaster, with spiderman being the grandpa who enjoys playing for fun in the park. Don't be stupid. She won't corner Spider-Man. They're fighting in a constantly changing battlefield, and nobody is adept at using the battlefield to their advantage as Spider-Man. He's not getting cornered, and he's not getting hit. Plus, hard to corner someone when you're webbed to the ground.

Originally posted by Akuki

3. Caerula is able to adjust her aim very easily, even in mid strike. For example here she decides to spare Alita and redirects her strike by merely twitching her wrist, when you combine that with her being able to see neural flows, spidey won't be able to dodge that.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/Alucard/Gunnm-LO06-088.jpg
Spidey dodges machine gun fire, bullets when they're a foot away and sniper ammo. A couple changes in direction won't be a problem. Especially when he's fast enough to ensure that she won't have a chance to change direction.

Originally posted by Akuki
4. You continue to insist that Spidey will be able to get off the webbing before the gets into close combat, it simply isn't going to happen. While spidey sense is simply a general danger sense, Caerula's power is basically the ability to foresee exactly what her opponent is going to do, and react to it before they take action. With those circumstances Spiderman's hits simply aren't going to land. How exactly will she know which nerves set off a stream of webbing? Besides, did you look at the scans?

The sheer speed and output of webbing means she won't have a direction to go in where she isn't turned into a statue of webbing. Waaay too much for her to attempt to cut through. It would completely engulf her.

Spidey sense is not simply a general danger sense. I showed scan that showed his spidey sense being accurate enough to guide him along a trapeze line blindfolded and acute enough to pinpoint which floor boards he walks on are going to squeak. Scans that showed him knowing exactly when a bullet was going to be fired, from which direction, and who it's aimed for. Scans that showed him even knowing when someone was just watching him with binoculars. He knows the location, nature and level of every danger around him.

Ok end of the match.
Well Smurph, good match, I look forward to seeing the judges votes. By the way can you post the list of judges in the thread?

Originally posted by StylishSmurph
The judges, as pre-arranged, are Blair, Soljer and Priest.

Also, it's important to note that I'm using pre-OMD-retcon Spider-Man.

Anyways, vote Smurph, yada yada.

Good match, Akuki.

So we're counting the post's after midnight?

If so I'll read the the last 3 Battle Zone Post when I get back from class this after noon and put my vote in.

Was that it???

Originally posted by Priest
So we're counting the post's after midnight?

If so I'll read the the last 3 Battle Zone Post when I get back from class this after noon and put my vote in. There weren't any debate posts after midnight, SPT

so we're allowed to use non-comic book characters in here then ?

I won't be out of class till five, CST.

Thus, if the match still needs a vote by around that time, that's when it'll be cast.

@Akuki - Sweet manga. Nice match, seems "Caerula Sanguis", would give spiderman hell.

Originally posted by id369
@Akuki - Sweet manga. Nice match, seems "Caerula Sanguis", would give spiderman hell.
I highly recommend you check out the manga, its a great classic one, and has some of the best fight scenes I've seen in manga or comics.

Judges Vote:

To start off great debating on both sides.

This was an interesting battle. Seems less like a battle of power or skill and more like a battle of who has the best precog. Going through the scans of everything and taking it all at face value (since I know nothing of the manga, and dont want to use bias on Spiderman) I have come to several conclusions that lead to the finale outcome in my opinion.

Skill:
In terms of pure melee skill Caerula seems to outshine Spiderman by leagues and miles. Being a Martial Artists helps when someone of superior speed, agility, strength, and overall physical stats is fighting against you. However, those techniques and knowledge are only useful if you can touch your opponent (I will touch on this later)

Vampire Eye vs Spider Sense:
In my mind precog is precog. They both seemed to do about the same thing, Spiderman warning him about danger and how to capitalize on it and Caerula predicting moves and how to capitalize on it as well. Which helped who more though? Caerula seems like a Batman type thinker in battle, while Spiderman relies on his superior physical stats in battle. Using their precog they seem able to always predict where the opponent will be, but what will knowing what will happen help if your opponent always knows what will happen AND is faster than you to the punch? Which leads us to:

Physical Stats
Spiderman in my opinion has this hands down. While Caerula has him beat in pure MA, she cannot hurt what she cannot hit, and even if she can predict his moves he can predict her said moves and move faster than she can. In the end it is not a loop of predicted moves, but of when Spiderman will hit her because he is so much faster. And since her durability was never once shown (she dodged everything), I couldnt rightly place her above average human when someone who she couldnt dodge would hit her.

He also has the advantage in ranged weaponry when it comes to his webbing (and being the Ironman fanboy that I am, I know full and well the capabilities of his Uni-Beam. Not that I agree with what happened, but he webbed him up like nothing he has ever webbed up before.) He can swing, stick to walls, attack from distances, and as Smurph pointed out he can use the environment to his advantage.

Will Caerula and the Vampire Eye give Spiderman hell? Sure.
Will it take them both time to adjust to not being the only precogs in the battle? Sure
Will Spider-Man eventually win out though? In my opinion yes.

My Vote goes to Smurph

Well Smurph congratulations on the win, you did a good job.