James Cameron to announce Jesus tomb discovery.

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Robtard
Jesus: Tales from the Crypt

Brace yourself. James Cameron, the man who brought you 'The Titanic' is back with another blockbuster. This time, the ship he's sinking is Christianity.

In a new documentary, Producer Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected --the cornerstone of Christian faith-- and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. And, get this, Jesus sired a son with Mary Magdelene.

No, it's not a re-make of "The Da Vinci Codes'. It's supposed to be true.

Let's go back 27 years, when Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot, a Jerusalem suburb. of Jerusalem. The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archologists were summoned, and the stone caskets carted away for examination. It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.
Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.

There was also this little inconvenience that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Christ's resurrection, after all, is the main foundation of the faith, proof that a boy born to a carpenter's wife in a manger is the Son of God.

But film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

Ever the showman, (Why does this remind me of the impresario in another movie,"King Kong", whose hubris blinds him to the dangers of an angry and very large ape?) Cameron is holding a New York press conference on Monday at which he will reveal three coffins, supposedly those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene. News about the film, which will be shown soon on Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision, and Israel's Channel 8, has been a hot blog topic in the Middle East (check out a personal favorite: Israelity Bites) Here in the Holy Land, Biblical Archeology is a dangerous profession. This 90-minute documentary is bound to outrage Christians and stir up a titanic debate between believers and skeptics. Stay tuned.

--Tim McGirk/Jerusalem
http://time-blog.com/middle_east/

Capt_Fantastic
I know I'll be watching it.

TRH
laughing smokin'

Imperial_Samura
I heard about this, though up till now I thought Simcha Jacobovici was the main figure in the whole thing, and Cameron more a supporting part.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1171894508893&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Still, the whole theory sounds quite interesting - especially if ones believes Jesus might have existed but been just a man and not divine. If that were the case there is always the chance some physical remnant might remain. Of course the question about why the tomb would exist as it does is valid, but I am assuming they have done their research and have a valid reason why this could be Jesus beyond just names - the whole "amassed evidence through DNA tests, archaeological evidence and Biblical studies" sounds promising.

Boris
Interesting... and.... "Jesus wasn't resurrected".. WTF?! Of course he wasn't, do people actually believe he was? Hahahah!

Draco69
How the hell did they do DNA testing? We actually have a semen sample from Jesus from the New Testament?

Boris
Cameron puts an end to christianity... AMEN!

Islam is next! Huzzah!

AngryManatee
If they have DNA samples, they should make Evil-Clone Jesus

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Draco69
How the hell did they do DNA testing? We actually have a semen sample from Jesus from the New Testament?

Something I wondered as well... thus I guess we will have to watch to find out.

Maybe it will have some Terminator like time travel in it.

Nellinator
I don't see how the DNA testing will show anything more than that the family within the tomb is related and that they were Jews. I think Amos Kloner is on the right track. The Jews accused the followers of Jesus of stealing the body because it was no longer in the tomb. The Jews openly admit that the body was gone, so that would make it impossible for this to be the body of the Biblical Jesus.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I know I'll be watching it.

Me too. I'm really looking forward to it.

Alliance
OMG!

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't see how the DNA testing will show anything more than that the family within the tomb is related and that they were Jews. I think Amos Kloner is on the right track. The Jews accused the followers of Jesus of stealing the body because it was no longer in the tomb. The Jews openly admit that the body was gone, so that would make it impossible for this to be the body of the Biblical Jesus.

Where do you get the information that the Jews openly admit that the body was gone?

Help
Originally posted by AngryManatee
If they have DNA samples, they should make Evil-Clone Jesus

co-sign

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AngryManatee
If they have DNA samples, they should make Evil-Clone Jesus

If they did clone Jesus, would that be the return of Jesus?

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
I think Amos Kloner is on the right track.

What a massive, massive suprise! This guy is a hack! Talk about having an agenda! This guy is one of those members of the scientific community that sees only what he wants and uses his position to advance his religion. I've not seen one documentary by this man that has taken all the evidence into account.

He's one of those guys that presents an argument for biblical truth and then tweaks history to make the evidence look like it fits the stories in teh bible.

He's a hack and his involvment in this project makes me highly doubt it's going to be the bombshell Cameron wants to make it out to be. The fact that these tombs exist; with the combination of names; in the place it does; from the time they come, it's highly likely that this is the family mausoleum of the Jewish teacher, Jesus. But the logic behind it will escape anyone who is a bible thumping christian. They could find a bag of bones with a hand written note signed by Jesus himself with a post script from God saying Jesus was a good guy but not divine, and you'd call it a plot by the Jews.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If they did clone Jesus, would that be the return of Jesus?

hmmm........

Evil Dead
well stated.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
What a massive, massive suprise! This guy is a hack! Talk about having an agenda! This guy is one of those members of the scientific community that sees only what he wants and uses his position to advance his religion. I've not seen one documentary by this man that has taken all the evidence into account.

He's one of those guys that presents an argument for biblical truth and then tweaks history to make the evidence look like it fits the stories in teh bible.

He's a hack and his involvment in this project makes me highly doubt it's going to be the bombshell Cameron wants to make it out to be. The fact that these tombs exist; with the combination of names; in the place it does; from the time they come, it's highly likely that this is the family mausoleum of the Jewish teacher, Jesus. But the logic behind it will escape anyone who is a bible thumping christian. They could find a bag of bones with a hand written note signed by Jesus himself with a post script from God saying Jesus was a good guy but not divine, and you'd call it a plot by the Jews.

I tend to agree.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Draco69
How the hell did they do DNA testing? We actually have a semen sample from Jesus from the New Testament?



I have a couple in my mouth, maybe I should donate some to the experiment...

Nellinator
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Where do you get the information that the Jews openly admit that the body was gone?
The fact that they claim that the body was stolen. It might be in the Talmud, can't remember though.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
The fact that they claim that the body was stolen. It might be in the Talmud, can't remember though.

Could you check on that, please.

Nellinator
Sure. It's actually in the early Jewish writings called the Toledoth Yeshu and is again mentioned in Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho the Jew. Plus the Bible's account of the Jewish response to the empty tomb.

My thoughts: If the tomb was not empty, the Jews would definitely had proved so if they could have. But they did not, strongly inferring that they could not because the tomb was indeed empty.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Sure. It's actually in the early Jewish writings called the Toledoth Yeshu and is again mentioned in Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho the Jew. Plus the Bible's account of the Jewish response to the empty tomb.

My thoughts: If the tomb was not empty, the Jews would definitely had proved so if they could have. But they did not, strongly inferring that they could not because the tomb was indeed empty.

What if the body of Jesus was moved to the new tomb, but the tomb was hidden, and no one (with the exception of Jesus' family) knew where it was until now.

Nellinator
I'd ask why Matthew is in the tomb then? Especially considering that Matthew was martyred far away from Jerusalem (though that location is debated). That is of course, assuming that it is the disciple Matthew... if its not, then it seems improbable that this could ever possibly be the tomb of Jesus. Also, Mary and Joseph (especially Joseph) would have been in their family tomb, not buried in a seperate tomb with Jesus. It is even less likely considering that Mary is thought to have died in Ephesus in Asia Minor, very far from the Jerusalem area.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Draco69
How the hell did they do DNA testing? We actually have a semen sample from Jesus from the New Testament?

From what I got on the news today it seems the DNA samples are based upon testable material found in the caskets which proves the relationship between the people that resided in them.

Beyond that an emphasis seems to exist on the combination of names - that is a combination of names found in the holy texts of these faiths, with the expectation that it would be a remarkable coincidence if there was another Jesus in this period who just happened to be the son of a Mary and Joseph, and who just so happened to associated with a Mary whose names bears a striking resemblance to Mary Magdalene's (and apparently the DNA tests shows Jesus body and Mary M. body weren't related by blood, thus improving the likelihood they were married.)

Which might be one of the counterarguments they use against the "these were very common names in that era" - the documentations aren't debating that, but saying the particular combination of names, matching up so perfectly with the Biblical account, wouldn't have been a common.

Of course I imagine there must be more to it then that, but that is what the news readers have given so far.

muslimscholar
Originally posted by Boris
Interesting... and.... "Jesus wasn't resurrected".. WTF?! Of course he wasn't, do people actually believe he was? Hahahah!

yes he wasn't resurrected because the Romans did not get him they got the wrong person

muslimscholar
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I have a couple in my mouth, maybe I should donate some to the experiment...

no donate some to your brain they might help

WrathfulDwarf
I'm open to whatever James and the project present...however, I just know both sides of the fence (atheist and Christians) are just gonna go at each others throats. Anyways, no one does anything for free...so whatever people will pay for this most likely is the main object and the actual project itself.

Marxman
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But the logic behind it will escape anyone who is a bible thumping christian. They could find a bag of bones with a hand written note signed by Jesus himself with a post script from God saying Jesus was a good guy but not divine, and you'd call it a plot by the Jews. True but at the same time every atheist will take any and all evidence against religion as absolute truth.

Furthermore, the fact that DNA testing shows these people are related is not surprising. THEY SHARE A TOMB! Tombs aren't the same as graveyards where anybody can be put. Tombs are put aside for families.

And what biblical studies have proven this. As far as I know, the New Testament says Jesus was resurrected. Are they saying that this "biblical evidence" is from those other gospels like the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Judas? I don't see the logic in that. I mean, you don't believe in what the bible says as an atheist. What makes these bibles more believable than the others, other than the fact that it says what you want it to say? Not you personally, Capt, but you generally.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
I'd ask why Matthew is in the tomb then? Especially considering that Matthew was martyred far away from Jerusalem (though that location is debated). That is of course, assuming that it is the disciple Matthew... if its not, then it seems improbable that this could ever possibly be the tomb of Jesus. Also, Mary and Joseph (especially Joseph) would have been in their family tomb, not buried in a seperate tomb with Jesus. It is even less likely considering that Mary is thought to have died in Ephesus in Asia Minor, very far from the Jerusalem area.

I like how it's a conspiracy when the Jews are considered, but it isn't when the christians are examined. You know why the Jews didn't go out of their way to "prove" anything? Because they didn't buy it. Jesus wasn't the only guy running around saying he fulfilled the requirements to be the Messiah.

Originally posted by Marxman
True but at the same time every atheist will take any and all evidence against religion as absolute truth.

Furthermore, the fact that DNA testing shows these people are related is not surprising. THEY SHARE A TOMB! Tombs aren't the same as graveyards where anybody can be put. Tombs are put aside for families.

And what biblical studies have proven this. As far as I know, the New Testament says Jesus was resurrected. Are they saying that this "biblical evidence" is from those other gospels like the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Judas? I don't see the logic in that. I mean, you don't believe in what the bible says as an atheist. What makes these bibles more believable than the others, other than the fact that it says what you want it to say? Not you personally, Capt, but you generally.

As for the DNA, I haven't seen the documentary, so I can't comment on that. I assume they'll explain it. And if you read my last post, you'll see that I don't buy into the hype that this will be the bombshell it's being made out to be. If the history of a couple of the people involved holds true, it will take two steps forward and three steps back at every turn. They'll take a few steps forward to prove that Jesus wasn't ressurected and then they'll take three steps back to say that there's no evidence that he wasn't.

Also, I'm not an atheist.

No, I don't believe in what the bible says. It isn't a matter of buying into one non-canon gospel over a canon gospel. It's a matter of knowing the history of the christian religion and the history of the book we call the bible. If there were any books that didn't fulfill the undisputable divinity of Christ that the church had to propagate, they were tossed out. They were destroyed or called blasphemy. Jesus Christ didn't pick and choose the books humans were to consider canon, men did. I do find the three dimensional view of Jesus you get by looking at all canon and non-canon gospels extremely interesting. I see Jesus as a great man who had some very good ideas about humanity having to live together and making the best of it. But I don't think he's the son of god. Nothing this documentary is going to say will make any difference to my opinion. Just as it will have no influence on the opinion of people like Nellinator. The only difference is that I'm willing to admit it's my opinion. I don't approach the whole world like it's stupid because I've been inspired by some divine truth that no one else really understands.

I also find it interesting that he's attempting to use logic to explain why there's no chance this crypt is what they say it is (which I don't really believe they're saying) when he has many times in the past said that logic and religion have no buisness being considered in the same league.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I see Jesus as a great man who had some very good ideas about humanity having to live together and making the best of it. But I don't think he's the son of god.

So are you a Jew or a Muslim? stick out tongue

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So are you a Jew or a Muslim? stick out tongue

Neither

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I don't approach the whole world like it's stupid because I've been inspired by some divine truth that no one else really understands.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Neither

It was a joke. (in case it wasn't obvious)

Admiral Akbar
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I like how it's a conspiracy when the Jews are considered, but it isn't when the christians are examined. You know why the Jews didn't go out of their way to "prove" anything? Because they didn't buy it. Jesus wasn't the only guy running around saying he fulfilled the requirements to be the Messiah.



As for the DNA, I haven't seen the documentary, so I can't comment on that. I assume they'll explain it. And if you read my last post, you'll see that I don't buy into the hype that this will be the bombshell it's being made out to be. If the history of a couple of the people involved holds true, it will take two steps forward and three steps back at every turn. They'll take a few steps forward to prove that Jesus wasn't ressurected and then they'll take three steps back to say that there's no evidence that he wasn't.

Also, I'm not an atheist.

No, I don't believe in what the bible says. It isn't a matter of buying into one non-canon gospel over a canon gospel. It's a matter of knowing the history of the christian religion and the history of the book we call the bible. If there were any books that didn't fulfill the undisputable divinity of Christ that the church had to propagate, they were tossed out. They were destroyed or called blasphemy. Jesus Christ didn't pick and choose the books humans were to consider canon, men did. I do find the three dimensional view of Jesus you get by looking at all canon and non-canon gospels extremely interesting. I see Jesus as a great man who had some very good ideas about humanity having to live together and making the best of it. But I don't think he's the son of god. Nothing this documentary is going to say will make any difference to my opinion. Just as it will have no influence on the opinion of people like Nellinator. The only difference is that I'm willing to admit it's my opinion. I don't approach the whole world like it's stupid because I've been inspired by some divine truth that no one else really understands.

I also find it interesting that he's attempting to use logic to explain why there's no chance this crypt is what they say it is (which I don't really believe they're saying) when he has many times in the past said that logic and religion have no buisness being considered in the same league.

I kind of feel the same way. Well said.

Storm
I' m being skeptical.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by muslimscholar
no donate some to your brain they might help



Maybe I should cut off my hands and donate it as well....seeing as how that is a fitting punishment in your mind.

Marxman
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Maybe I should cut off my hands and donate it as well....seeing as how that is a fitting punishment in your mind. Let's stone this fairy!!!!!!




jk LU, I wubs joo. love

muslimscholar
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Maybe I should cut off my hands and donate it as well....seeing as how that is a fitting punishment in your mind.

yes to those who steal they deserve there hands to be cut off

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by muslimscholar
yes to those who steal they deserve there hands to be cut off

No, they deserve to be put in jail, but not have their hand cut off. That would be barbaric.

muslimscholar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, they deserve to be put in jail, but not have their hand cut off. That would be barbaric.

then what come out and steal again???????????
to go in jail the people pay tax its not fair on the people they have to pay for a criminal
makes no sence
cutting the hands of 1 criminal is a lesson to all criminals

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by muslimscholar
then what come out and steal again???????????
to go in jail the people pay tax its not fair on the people they have to pay for a criminal
makes no sence
cutting the hands of 1 criminal is a lesson to all criminals

Well, I don't believe in how jails are run in the US. I think the prisoners should work 7 days a week, and if they don't work, they don't eat. Cutting off a person's hand does not allow the person to change, and become a good person, they are marked forever. People can change.

muslimscholar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, I don't believe in how jails are run in the US. I think the prisoners should work 7 days a week, and if they don't work, they don't eat. Cutting off a person's hand does not allow the person to change, and become a good person, they are marked forever. People can change.

they should work 7 days a week before they go to jail some people change not all and i can bear witness to that
cutting the hand of a person changes him and sets an example to thousands of other people

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by muslimscholar
they should work 7 days a week before they go to jail some people change not all and i can bear witness to that
cutting the hand of a person changes him and sets an example to thousands of other people

I am just against physically harming a person.

What if it is found later that the person did not commit the crime? Also, fear is an evil path, and to use fear to lead, only leads to failure.

muslimscholar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am just against physically harming a person.

What if it is found later that the person did not commit the crime? Also, fear is an evil path, and to use fear to lead, only leads to failure.

fear prevents evil
if you feared your hands are going to be cut off then you wouldent steal would you????????????

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by muslimscholar
fear prevents evil
if you feared your hands are going to be cut off then you wouldent steal would you????????????

Fear does not prevent evil; fear leads to evil.

I would not steal regardless. I do not want what is not mine.

How would you feel if someone, who does not like you, told everyone that you are a thief? Would it be ok for you to loose your hand for something you did not do?

Adam_PoE
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/super_hottie_2/royale.jpg

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by muslimscholar
then what come out and steal again???????????
to go in jail the people pay tax its not fair on the people they have to pay for a criminal
makes no sence
cutting the hands of 1 criminal is a lesson to all criminals

Yes... because cutting a persons hands of doesn't cost any money... does it? (going if it was done today) Hell, if I got my hand/hands cut off through healthcare bills, retraining to I might have a job that doesn't require both hands, a possible disability pension... well, that is just some of the government assistance I would be entitled to.

And if that logic worked in the past when hands were cut off, well there wouldn't have been any criminals - but surprise surprise there were still theifs and murderers and everything in between. And the people who lost their hands, well, history shows they rarely went on to good things. They would have been less capable of working honestly, their missing hand would essentially be a big "Hey look, I'm a crim" sign, meaning few would employ them, they would possibly face infection and death from the wound...

And theoretically todays legal system has an aspect of "do the crime, pay the time" and then get another shot at life. Plenty waste it, not all, and thus shouldn't have their hands cut off. The reason such punishments are mostly gone is because a. they weren't effective and b. they would be considered inhumane - as in cruel and unusual punishment.



Hmmm. The Star Wars I sense in you, realise you do that fear leads to the Dark Side. Hmmm yes.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Fear can be a useful tool, and once again the possible punishments that can be handed out for crimes are intended to have a deterrent factor, which would likely be fear based. But yes, there is something in what you are saying, but fear can be useful.

Darth Macabre
When is it on? Because Discovery channel is having something on it tomorrow at 11, is that it?

WrathfulDwarf
This was a documentary drama...not what I was expecting. Wasn't very sold on the whole show presentation. Interesting...but not really the impact I was expecting.

The one hour with Ted Koppel was much better. Jacobvici is not a scientist he declares himself a film maker and journalist....I personaly think he is the Michael Moore of Religion.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Jacobvici is not a scientist he declares himself a film maker and journalist....I personaly think he is the Michael Moore of Religion.

The program does not have anything to do with religion.

WrathfulDwarf
Well, I don't know what program you were watching...but this program was about Jesus (which is the foundation of a religion) and how it would affect this specific religion with this so-called "new discovery"

the Darkone
I was laughing so hard, the experts came on and torn him a new butt hole and well deserver. The whole project was horrible, Jacbovici was likely their where no bibical schoalrs he would gotten torn up even worse.

Adam_PoE

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by muslimscholar
yes to those who steal they deserve there hands to be cut off The levels human stupidity can reach never fail to astound me.

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by Adam_PoE




For you to dismiss the discovery as "so-called," and the film-maker as the "Michael Moore of Religion" is indicative of having approached both with a closed-mind.

No, I don't consider been a skeptic of Simcha Jacobovici as "closed-mind".

Read more about him here.

My personal opinion of the man is that he is a Zionist. Could I be wrong? Absolutely! I'm willing to accept that. But! after seen this docu-drama it feels that he has an agenda. He is neither an archeologist nor a historian...he clearly declare himself as journalist and filmaker. A journalist reports events not turns things into some propaganda film.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, I don't consider been a skeptic of Simcha Jacobovici as "closed-mind".

Read more about him here.

My personal opinion of the man is that he is a Zionist. Could I be wrong? Absolutely! I'm willing to accept that. But! after seen this docu-drama it feels that he has an agenda. He is neither an archeologist nor a historian...he clearly declare himself as journalist and filmaker. A journalist reports events not turns things into some propaganda film.

Zionism is an international political movement that supports a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel. That Simcha Jacobovici is a Zionist is not in question; he is the founder of the Canadian Universities Bureau of the Canadian Zionist Federation. What is in question is what his being a Zionist has to do with the validity of his work.

Moreover, the many accolades he has received is indicative of the reputability of his work. Among them:

He was named Canada's Top Documentary Filmmaker by the Ryerson Review of Journalism. He has received a certificate of Special Merit from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, a Genie Award, a Gold Medal from the International Documentary Festival of Nyon, three U.S. Cable Ace Awards, two Gemini awards, an Alfred I. Dupont-Columbia University Award, a Silver Nymph from the Monte Carlo Festival, the Best Documentary from the Jerusalem International Film Festival and the 1995 and 1996 Emmy Awards for "Outstanding Investigative Journalism."

Criticism is to be expected considering the controversial nature of his work, that deals primarily with Jewish, not Christian, history.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by the Darkone
I was laughing so hard, the experts came on and torn him a new butt hole and well deserved. The whole project was horrible, Jacbovici was likely their where no bibical schoalrs he would gotten torn up even worse.

That might be because the "biblical scholar" was sitting with him. And there were several biblical scholars on in the second half of the program. (and the first)

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The levels human stupidity can reach never fail to astound me.

Which is why some people waste time talking about evil and fear, when the objective should be education and understanding.

As for the Lost Tomb of Jesus, it was an interesting program. And I agree with WD, the "critical look" that came after the show was more interesting than the show. As I said at the beginning of the thread, Jacobovici has an agenda that lends an unfair bias to his work. You can watch almost any of his other documentaries (most of which focus on the old testament) to see that he tweaks history to suit his religious needs. He has questions and he only looks for the answers to those questions, and when the answer doesn't fit his desire to be vindicated he dismisses it.

In this aspect, he approaches this project with a similar attitude. However, he wants to act like he's just telling a story that needs to be told.

Looking at the documentary for what it is, you can see that the production crew does edit in a manner to suit their needs. BUT! When you watch the Koppel special, his team does the EXACT same thing. Jacobovici even presents an email from one of the guys Koppel contacted for a comment on his involvment and this email vindicated Jacobovici's use of the exact quote in the film.

There were a whole lot of non-answers and non-conclusions presented in this special. None of which really address the point. And as I said earlier in this thread: 'Nothing will happen in this documentary to validate the opinions of anyone on either side of the issue. But, nothing will happen to invalidate them either.' In my opinion, the probability of this being a fmaily tomb of the Jesus family is high. But I didn't need a tomb or bones to think that the central propoganda of christianity is bullshit.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
And as I said earlier in this thread: 'Nothing will happen in this documentary to validate the opinions of anyone on either side of the issue. But, nothing will happen to invalidate them either.'

In the second half of "The Lost Tomb of Jesus: A Critical Look," the two Christian theologians said as much. The woman on the panel went so far as to state that one should always defer to The Bible, i.e. in instances when archaeological or scientific evidence contradicts The Bible, it is always the evidence that is wrong. As I stated previously, this is indicative of having approached the documentary with a closed-mind, i.e. having already decided that the evidence is wrong before it has even been presented.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by muslimscholar
then what come out and steal again???????????


Is ten dollars with more than a human hand ?

Is that how twisted your religion is, that you value physical possessions over a human's limb ?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Is ten dollars with more than a human hand ?

Is that how twisted your religion is, that you value physical possessions over a human's limb ?

He would also NOT address the problem of what if the person was innocent.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He would also NOT address the problem of what if the person was innocent.



I know roll eyes (sarcastic)

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I know roll eyes (sarcastic)

Maybe his justice system is so perfect that it never makes a mistake. What a wonderful paradise he lives in. wink

Capt_Fantastic
If the guy was innocent, god would never allow him to be accused in the first place.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Maybe his justice system is so perfect that it never makes a mistake. What a wonderful paradise he lives in. wink



Since when are Nightmares perfect ?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
If the guy was innocent, god would never allow him to be accused in the first place.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Oh! Good point. embarrasment

robot I'm a good robot...

Nellinator
Mary died in Ephesus, Matthew died far away as well. Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Jewish people scattered. They wouldn't be in that tomb even if it were Jesus's family tomb.

Lord Urizen
How come Jews have been cast out of every single land they try to live ? What the **** man

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nellinator
Mary died in Ephesus, Matthew died far away as well. Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Jewish people scattered. They wouldn't be in that tomb even if it were Jesus's family tomb.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

In the second half of "The Lost Tomb of Jesus: A Critical Look," the two Christian theologians said as much. The woman on the panel went so far as to state that one should always defer to The Bible, i.e. in instances when archaeological or scientific evidence contradicts The Bible, it is always the evidence that is wrong. As I stated previously, this is indicative of having approached the documentary with a closed-mind, i.e. having already decided that the evidence is wrong before it has even been presented.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
How come Jews have been cast out of every single land they try to live ? What the **** man
Tis unfair...Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The evidence isn't right, objectively. Even without the Bible it is wrong, the people died elsewhere and the Jerusalem area was abandoned. That is why the evidence is strongly against this being the tomb of anyone after the destruction of Jerusalem, putting Matthew and both Marys out of the picture. No evidence suggests otherwise. No one has been able to refute that argument. Heck, even if it were the disciple Matthew it would be inconsistent with Jewish burial tradition.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nellinator
Tis unfair... The evidence isn't right, objectively. Even without the Bible it is wrong, the people died elsewhere and the Jerusalem area was abandoned. That is why the evidence is strongly against this being the tomb of anyone after the destruction of Jerusalem, putting Matthew and both Marys out of the picture.

The Bible is the only evidence that they were buried elsewhere.




Originally posted by Nellinator
No evidence suggests otherwise. No one has been able to refute that argument.

The evidence presented in the documentary suggests otherwise.




Originally posted by Nellinator
Heck, even if it were the disciple Matthew it would be inconsistent with Jewish burial tradition.

The Matthew buried in the Talpiot ossuary is not Matthew the disciple.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
Heck, even if it were the disciple Matthew it would be inconsistent with Jewish burial tradition.

Did you even watch the documentary?

It doesn't seem that way. If you did, you didn't understand it. To this end, I would invite you not to post in this thread anymore. This thread was open for at least a week before the program aired. In that time all the posts were speculation. The program has been rebroadcast several times on a number of basic and higher tier cable channels, however. If you can't avail yourself of one of the repeat showings, then you don't need to be commenting on the very specific topic of this thread.

And Adam may say you, like the biblical scholar he mentioned from the 'critical look", are approaching it with a closed mind. But I disagree. It's clear from your useless comments that you didn't even approach the documentary at all. But I agree you didn't even try because you're close minded.

However, since you are an expert on 1st century jewish burial traditions, why don't you tell us what those traditions entail. Since you haven't seen the program, or it went over your head, feel free to tell us what you know on the topic so we can all inform you that you agree with more of the conclusions reached in the program than you are aware.

sithsaber408
I'm only asking because I didn't bother to watch, but I read on some site debunking the documentary, that as stated Jesus was a common name back then (said in the documentary) and that in the tomb-yard there were an additional 23 or so tombs with the name Jesus on them anyway.

Was this mentioned at all on the documentary?

Not saying it's fact, just that I read it and was curious if this was stated.

Also, the DNA evidence was used to prove that the inhabitants of the tombs were related (kind of a given, really) but how was the DNA used to prove that the tombs were acutally of Jesus of Nazareth and his mother Marry and father Joseph and another Marry and a Matthew?


How is it other than some math game that them being together proves anything?


It's like saying that because you found a tomb of people that DNA says were related and they had the names John, Jaqueline, and John Jr. that you MUST have found the Kennedy's tombs. stick out tongue

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'm only asking because I didn't bother to watch, but I read on some site debunking the documentary, that as stated Jesus was a common name back then (said in the documentary) and that in the tomb-yard there were an additional 23 or so tombs with the name Jesus on them anyway.


Was this mentioned at all on the documentary?


No specific number of other tombs was mentioned, but it was repeatedly asserted that Jesus was a common name. However, a large portion of the show was dedicated to the grouping of relevant names. The statistics involved in finding all of these names, familial relations, etc in one place, is pretty compelling.



Originally posted by sithsaber408
Also, the DNA evidence was used to prove that the inhabitants of the tombs were related (kind of a given, really) but how was the DNA used to prove that the tombs were acutally of Jesus of Nazareth and his mother Marry and father Joseph and another Marry and a Matthew?

There is no known base sample of DNA for Jesus. So, no, they didn't say that it was a DNA match for Jesus. They tested the family relationships, based on DNA, for the tombs. This established who was and was not genetically related, and in what manner they were related. So it might have been a given that they were related, but the nature of that relationship was defined and helps to narrow the "math game", as you put it, used to calculate the chances.


Originally posted by sithsaber408
How is it other than some math game that them being together proves anything?

Statistics is not a math game. It's based on numbers and probability. Which is a bit more complex than saying a human body just floated into heaven.


Originally posted by sithsaber408
It's like saying that because you found a tomb of people that DNA says were related and they had the names John, Jaqueline, and John Jr. that you MUST have found the Kennedy's tombs. stick out tongue

Judging from your questions, and the fact that you've answered them, I think you know it's a bit more complex than that. DNA, names, location, time period, etc all went into this. However, you know as well as the rest of us, that there were no solid conclusions reached, which is exactly what everyone thought would be the case when they started discussing this.


But, beyond all that.

I'd like to hear from the christian members of this board. Given that this was difinitively proven to be the tomb of Jesus, what would that mean to your identity as a christian?

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No specific number of other tombs was mentioned, but it was repeatedly asserted that Jesus was a common name. However, a large portion of the show was dedicated to the grouping of relevant names. The statistics involved in finding all of these names, familial relations, etc in one place, is pretty compelling.

There is no known base sample of DNA for Jesus. So, no, they didn't say that it was a DNA match for Jesus. They tested the family relationships, based on DNA, for the tombs. This established who was and was not genetically related, and in what manner they were related. So it might have been a given that they were related, but the nature of that relationship was defined and helps to narrow the "math game", as you put it, used to calculate the chances.

Statistics is not a math game. It's based on numbers and probability. Which is a bit more complex than saying a human body just floated into heaven.

Judging from your questions, and the fact that you've answered them, I think you know it's a bit more complex than that. DNA, names, location, time period, etc all went into this. However, you know as well as the rest of us, that there were no solid conclusions reached, which is exactly what everyone thought would be the case when they started discussing this.


But, beyond all that.

I'd like to hear from the christian members of this board. Given that this was difinitively proven to be the tomb of Jesus, what would that mean to your identity as a christian?

Do you feel this is really the last resting place of Jesus? I mean, I'm still open to whatever else is introduce now or later. However, this is one of the issues that I and people had during the docu-drama:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070227/ZNYT02/702270730/-1/ZNYT


In an interview, Mr. Jacobovici was asked why the filmmakers did not conduct DNA testing on the other ossuaries to determine whether the one inscribed Judah, son of Jesus was genetically related to either the Jesus or Mary Magdalene boxes; or whether the Jesus remains were actually the offspring of Mary. "We're not scientists. At the end of the day we cant wait till every ossuary is tested for DNA," he said. "We took the story that far. At some point you have to say, I've done my job as a journalist."


There is also the James Ossuary which he claims is part of the tomb. The James Ossuary's authenticity is in question, and one of its past owners has been charged with fraud in connection to the artifact.

To me there are some holes in this whole deal. Remenber, Jacobovici did put a disclaimer leaving the viewer to ponder and question the project. I think that's the best disclaimer ever made in a docu-drama.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Do you feel this is really the last resting place of Jesus? I mean, I'm still open to whatever else is introduce now or later. However, this is one of the issues that I and people had during the docu-drama:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070227/ZNYT02/702270730/-1/ZNYT


In an interview, Mr. Jacobovici was asked why the filmmakers did not conduct DNA testing on the other ossuaries to determine whether the one inscribed Judah, son of Jesus was genetically related to either the Jesus or Mary Magdalene boxes; or whether the Jesus remains were actually the offspring of Mary. "We're not scientists. At the end of the day we cant wait till every ossuary is tested for DNA," he said. "We took the story that far. At some point you have to say, I've done my job as a journalist."

This was explained in the program.

The "Jesus, son of Joseph" and "Mary, known as Master" ossuaries were the only two that contained bone fragments that could be readily tested for DNA.

Testing the residue in the other ossuaries for DNA was too expensive and time consuming for the purposes of this documentary.




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
There is also the James Ossuary which he claims is part of the tomb. The James Ossuary's authenticity is in question, and one of its past owners has been charged with fraud in connection to the artifact.

To me there are some holes in this whole deal. Remenber, Jacobovici did put a disclaimer leaving the viewer to ponder and question the project. I think that's the best disclaimer ever made in a docu-drama.

The authenticity of the ossuary is not in question. The authenticity of part of the inscription is in question.

the Darkone
Jacobovici is so ignorant is not even funny, Jesus in Hebrew means Yehoshua translated in English Joshua. Everybody during that time of jesus and before these names are very common: Joseph, Mary, Joshua( Yehoshua which is Jesus in Hebrew) he has no creditability as a archeologist's what so ever.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by the Darkone
Jacobovici is so ignorant it is not even funny. Jesus in Hebrew means Yehoshua. Translated into English it's pronounced Joshua. Everybody during the time of jesus and before these names are very common: Joseph, Mary, Joshua( Yehoshua which is Jesus in Hebrew) he has no creditability as a archeologist's what so ever.

Thanks for chiming in three or four pages too late.

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
This was explained in the program.

The "Jesus, son of Joseph" and "Mary, known as Master" ossuaries were the only two that contained bone fragments that could be readily tested for DNA.

Testing the residue in the other ossuaries for DNA was too expensive and time consuming for the purposes of this documentary.


To which Ted in the one hour critical mentions why waste the money on paying actors and making documentary a drama when that money could have been used to do the testing more properly.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

The authenticity of the ossuary is not in question. The authenticity of part of the inscription is in question.

It's still part of the tomb. It should be included.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic


But, beyond all that.

I'd like to hear from the christian members of this board. Given that this was difinitively proven to be the tomb of Jesus, what would that mean to your identity as a christian?

It means nothing really.

It was a theory, based on statistical probability and incomplete DNA evidence.

A theory, one that wasn't even conclusive.


Yeah, a mary and a joseph and a jesus and a matthew were burried together. Yeah, some were family, and some weren't.


If I found a tomb that had a tom, dick, harry, and jane, what would it matter?


I've still seen 100 kids baptized in the Holy Spirit at once and speak in tounges, and seen them healed of asthma and diabetes on the spot. (that was all at one youth event.)

A prophet came to our church 3 weeks ago and told me that things of my family line, the generational curses that they dealt with and had impacted me, wouldn't be passed on any farther and wouldn't effect my children.



Funny that me and my wife had been talking that very sunday morning about my mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother having bi-polar depression, and my grandmother on my father's side have paranoid scyzophrenia and all of them using alcohol or drugs and how I had dealt with a depression for a few months as a teenager and been on all kinds of drugs, isn't it?

Funny that we should be talking about that and my wife saying that she hopes our kids (when we have them) don't carry on those traits.


And even funnier that pastor Marc Cargill from Oregon, a man I'd never met before IN MY LIFE, was given that EXACT word by the Holy Spirit to tell me, isn't it?





No poorly executed theory can compete in my mind or my heart with the very REAL power and presence of God. smile

Thundar
Originally posted by Robtard
Jesus: Tales from the Crypt

Brace yourself. James Cameron, the man who brought you 'The Titanic' is back with another blockbuster. This time, the ship he's sinking is Christianity.

In a new documentary, Producer Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected --the cornerstone of Christian faith-- and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. And, get this, Jesus sired a son with Mary Magdelene.

No, it's not a re-make of "The Da Vinci Codes'. It's supposed to be true.

Let's go back 27 years, when Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot, a Jerusalem suburb. of Jerusalem. The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archologists were summoned, and the stone caskets carted away for examination. It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.
Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.

There was also this little inconvenience that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Christ's resurrection, after all, is the main foundation of the faith, proof that a boy born to a carpenter's wife in a manger is the Son of God.

But film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

Ever the showman, (Why does this remind me of the impresario in another movie,"King Kong", whose hubris blinds him to the dangers of an angry and very large ape?) Cameron is holding a New York press conference on Monday at which he will reveal three coffins, supposedly those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene. News about the film, which will be shown soon on Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision, and Israel's Channel 8, has been a hot blog topic in the Middle East (check out a personal favorite: Israelity Bites) Here in the Holy Land, Biblical Archeology is a dangerous profession. This 90-minute documentary is bound to outrage Christians and stir up a titanic debate between believers and skeptics. Stay tuned.

--Tim McGirk/Jerusalem
http://time-blog.com/middle_east/

You know it's odd. I guess since it couldn't be proven that Jesus didn't exist over the years, the new lie being propagated by those who oppose Christianity is to destroy the whole resurrection miracle.

This is ridiculous. So what, they found a tomb of a couple of people who may have been related to Jesus. Jesus had cousins, brothers, sisters, many of which were married and had families. Did it ever cross anyone's mind that perhaps some of his relatives were buried in the tomb? This is really silly stuff. I don't mind people trying to get the facts straight, but from what I can tell so far -- much of this seems to be sensationalized bias against Christianity.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
To which Ted in the one hour critical mentions why waste the money on paying actors and making documentary a drama when that money could have been used to do the testing more properly.

This is simply a veiled criticism of the dramatizations in the program. There is no reason to believe that had there been no dramatizations in the program, that they would have had the budget to swab the other ossuaries for residue to test for DNA.




Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It's still part of the tomb. It should be included.

Who said that it should not be included?

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I've still seen 100 kids baptized in the Holy Spirit at once and speak in tounges, and seen them healed of asthma and diabetes on the spot. (that was all at one youth event.)

A prophet came to our church 3 weeks ago and told me that things of my family line, the generational curses that they dealt with and had impacted me, wouldn't be passed on any farther and wouldn't effect my children.



Funny that me and my wife had been talking that very sunday morning about my mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother having bi-polar depression, and my grandmother on my father's side have paranoid scyzophrenia and all of them using alcohol or drugs and how I had dealt with a depression for a few months as a teenager and been on all kinds of drugs, isn't it?

Funny that we should be talking about that and my wife saying that she hopes our kids (when we have them) don't carry on those traits.


And even funnier that pastor Marc Cargill from Oregon, a man I'd never met before IN MY LIFE, was given that EXACT word by the Holy Spirit to tell me, isn't it?

Jesus Camp much?

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Jesus Camp much?

Truth much?


I've no reason to lie to you. I'm no fool, and it takes real power in front of my eyes to make me believe in Jesus Christ and his message.

You don't have to believe me, but you wanted a question as to how this documentary would effect a Christian.

And I answered: ... it doesn't.

It's inacurate, incomplete and an uproved theory.

I'll make no apologies for stating the things that I've seen.

And you capt?

Any answer as to how Pastor Cargill was able to give me that word?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sithsaber408
And I answered: ... it doesn't.

Of course it wouldn't. No matter what evidence comes to light, you will believe only what you want to believe.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I've no reason to lie to you.

I didn't say you were lying to me. I have no doubt that you believe what you believe. I have no doubt that you think you've seen the tangible evidence of god's handiwork.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
You don't have to believe me.

I don't.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
And I answered: ... it doesn't.

.... confused thanks, I guess

Originally posted by sithsaber408
It's inacurate, incomplete and an uproved theory.

The same could be said of god. But that wasn't my question. I wasn't addressing the theory proposed by the documentary. I was asking what you would do if there had been conclusive evidence about Jesus having mortal remains. You said it wouldn't effect your faith. (despite the fact that is kind of the whole point of christianity) That's fine. Now I would like others to answer the question. But they won't. So good for you. You're the only one of your christian brothers and sisters that are willing to address the question.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'll make no apologies for stating the things that I've seen.

I didn't ask for one.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
And you Capt?

Any answer as to how Pastor Cargill was able to give me that word?

A guy showed up at your church and said even though your family has had problems, those problems won't be passed on to your children. I'm pretty sure you could say the first half of the statment applies to every family on the planet, and the second half is an ambigious comment that can't be addressed until you've had kids. But, when you do, and they have problems, maybe they won't be the same problems. Maybe they'll be all new problems. Maybe they'll be gay. If the guy saying it to you was a psychic, you'd dismiss it faster than I do your claim.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by sithsaber408
It means nothing really.

It was a theory, based on statistical probability and incomplete DNA evidence.

A theory, one that wasn't even conclusive.

You just described Intelligent Design.




Originally posted by sithsaber408
Yeah, a mary and a joseph and a jesus and a matthew were burried together. Yeah, some were family, and some weren't.


If I found a tomb that had a tom, dick, harry, and jane, what would it matter?

Frequency of Names:

Jesus, Son of Joseph: 1/190
Mariamne: 1/160
Matia: 1/40
Maria: 1/4

Based on these results, it would appear that the names in and of themselves were not uncommon at the time. However, the chances of them being found together are an extremely remote 1 in 97,280,000.




Originally posted by sithsaber408
I've still seen 100 kids baptized in the Holy Spirit at once and speak in tounges, and seen them healed of asthma and diabetes on the spot. (that was all at one youth event.)

Glossolalia is fabricated, meaningless speech.

According to Dr. William T. Samarin, professor of anthropology and linguistics at the University of Toronto, "glossolalia consists of strings of meaningless syllables made up of sounds taken from those familiar to the speaker and put together more or less haphazardly . . . Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language."




Originally posted by sithsaber408
A prophet came to our church 3 weeks ago and told me that things of my family line, the generational curses that they dealt with and had impacted me, wouldn't be passed on any farther and wouldn't effect my children.


Funny that me and my wife had been talking that very sunday morning about my mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother having bi-polar depression, and my grandmother on my father's side have paranoid scyzophrenia and all of them using alcohol or drugs and how I had dealt with a depression for a few months as a teenager and been on all kinds of drugs, isn't it?

Funny that we should be talking about that and my wife saying that she hopes our kids (when we have them) don't carry on those traits.


And even funnier that pastor Marc Cargill from Oregon, a man I'd never met before IN MY LIFE, was given that EXACT word by the Holy Spirit to tell me, isn't it?

The Forer Effect is a cold reading technique in which one makes seemingly personal statements that can apply to many people. The effect relies in part on the eagerness of people to fill in details and make connections between what is said and some aspect of their own lives, often searching their entire life's history to find some connection, or reinterpreting the statement in any number of different possible ways so as to make it apply to themselves.

docb77
Originally posted by Adam_PoE

Frequency of Names:

Jesus, Son of Joseph: 1/190
Mariamne: 1/160
Matia: 1/40
Maria: 1/4

Based on these results, it would appear that the names in and of themselves were not uncommon at the time. However, the chances of them being found together are an extremely remote 1 in 97,280,000.


That's assuming a random statistical sampling of names. In truth, a those names could likely run in families. meaning that the odds of finding them together would go up.

As an offhand, why do we still use the Hellenistic Jesus rather than the more Hebrew Yeshua or Yehoshua - or even the English version: Joshua?

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by docb77
That's assuming a random statistical sampling of names. In truth, a those names could likely run in families. meaning that the odds of finding them together would go up.

No, the probability is based on a representative sample of the frequency and distribution of Jewish names in the first century BCE.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Glossolalia is fabricated, meaningless speech.

According to Dr. William T. Samarin, professor of anthropology and linguistics at the University of Toronto, "glossolalia consists of strings of meaningless syllables made up of sounds taken from those familiar to the speaker and put together more or less haphazardly . . . Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language." Speaking in tongues is far different than what he is describing. Speaking in tongues involves speaking in existing languages that are unknown to the speaker, but that people of that language can easily understand. If that is not the case then yes, it is glossolalia, which I concede, sadly occurs far more often than speaking in tongues.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nellinator
Speaking in tongues is far different than what he is describing. Speaking in tongues involves speaking in existing languages that are unknown to the speaker, but that people of that language can easily understand. If that is not the case then yes, it is glossolalia, which I concede, sadly occurs far more often than speaking in tongues.

Three different manifestations or forms of glossolalia can be identified in Christian belief. The "sign of tongues" refers to xenoglossia, wherein one speaks a foreign language he has never learned. The "gift of tongues" or "giving a tongue" refers to a glossolalic utterance by an individual and addressed to a congregation of, typically, other believers. Lastly "praying in the spirit" is typically used to refer to glossolalia as part of personal prayer.

sithsaber408
Is Discovery Burying 'Lost Tomb'?
Net Pulls Repeat, Declines to Tout Ratings

By James Hibberd


Discovery Channel's controversial James Cameron-produced documentary "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" drew the largest audience for the network in more than a year on Sunday night, but the network has taken several recent steps to downplay the project.


Departing from normal procedures, the cable network didn't tout its big ratings win. The network also scheduled a last-minute special that harshly criticized its own documentary, and has yanked a planned repeat of "Tomb."

"This is not one where you necessarily beat the drum, from a business perspective," said David Leavy, executive VP of corporate communications at Discovery. "It's not necessarily about making money, or making ratings, or shouting from the highest office building. Sometimes having some maturity and perspective is more important than getting picked up in all the ratings highlights."

The documentary, executive produced by Oscar-winning "Titanic" director Mr. Cameron, claims to have found the family tomb of Jesus Christ, unearthed in Jerusalem. The findings include circumstantial evidence suggesting Christ and Mary Magdalene were a couple, and that they had a son named Judah.

Discovery formally announced the special last month and quickly incited a worldwide media frenzy, including stories in Time and Newsweek and links on the Drudge Report. But much of the coverage was highly skeptical of the documentary's findings. Prominent archaeologists disputed the program, while Christian groups criticized it for conflicting with the New Testament.

Although Mr. Leavy said the network stands by the documentary "100 percent," the company took several unusual steps in the wake of the controversy that could be seen as distancing itself from the content.

Last week, Discovery abruptly scheduled a panel debate to air after the documentary, moderated by Discovery newsman Ted Koppel. Discovery's announcement of the panel emphasized that Mr. Koppel "has no connection to the production of 'The Lost Tomb of Jesus'" and that "the panel will explore the filmmakers' profound assertions and challenge their assumptions and suggested conclusions."

When the panel discussion aired, guests criticized the documentary as "archaeo-porn" that played fast and loose with the facts.

The day after the March 4 airing, Discovery yanked a planned repeat of "Tomb" from its more hard-news-branded Discovery Times Channel.

When the Nielsen ratings revealed that "Tomb" averaged 4.1 million viewers - Discovery's largest audience since September 2005 - the network declined to put out a press release touting the numbers, as would be standard practice for a highly successful premiere. The second-season premiere of Discovery Channel's "Future Weapons," for instance, earned a media announcement for its audience of 2.5 million. A network representative, however, insisted Discovery was not trying to bury "Tomb."

No press release on the ratings was sent out, Mr. Leavy said, because of the show's subject matter. As for the yanked Discovery Times repeat, Mr. Leavy said that outlet wasn't the best venue to repeat the special.

The last record-setting Discovery Channel project also was about a sensitive subject, the9/11-themed "The Flight That Fought Back," yet Discovery issued a press release about its ratings.

The network still plans to air a previously scheduled "Tomb" repeat on its Spanish network on March 18, as well as an HD version on Discovery HD Theater on March 28.

"We are very proud of the program - we stand by it 100 percent," Mr. Leavy said.

Mr. Leavy said the network should be credited for airing a critical post-show panel.

"We added the Koppel panel once it was clear there was worldwide interest," he said. "Our responsibility is to give viewers all the information and let them decide. There is no way to ever prove this beyond a reasonable doubt."

Moving forward, Mr. Leavy said the network plans to increase its focus on archeology projects. The network recently signed History Channel's "Digging for Truth" host Josh Bernstein to develop new archeology series and specials.

"We are going to be doubling down in this space," he said. "We will soon be back in the news with more archeology."


http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11681




Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Three different manifestations or forms of glossolalia can be identified in Christian belief. The "sign of tongues" refers to xenoglossia, wherein one speaks a foreign language he has never learned. The "gift of tongues" or "giving a tongue" refers to a glossolalic utterance by an individual and addressed to a congregation of, typically, other believers. Lastly "praying in the spirit" is typically used to refer to glossolalia as part of personal prayer.

Whatever word you want to call it, how would you explain that at a youth conference a man can pray to Christ for the "glossolalia" and that ...bang!... in an instant 100 kids who had no preperation other than an open heart were doing it?



Your words are merely scientific labels of supernatural actions.

Lord Urizen
yawn

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Is Discovery Burying 'Lost Tomb'?
Net Pulls Repeat, Declines to Tout Ratings

By James Hibberd


Discovery Channel's controversial James Cameron-produced documentary "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" drew the largest audience for the network in more than a year on Sunday night, but the network has taken several recent steps to downplay the project.


Departing from normal procedures, the cable network didn't tout its big ratings win. The network also scheduled a last-minute special that harshly criticized its own documentary, and has yanked a planned repeat of "Tomb."

"This is not one where you necessarily beat the drum, from a business perspective," said David Leavy, executive VP of corporate communications at Discovery. "It's not necessarily about making money, or making ratings, or shouting from the highest office building. Sometimes having some maturity and perspective is more important than getting picked up in all the ratings highlights."

The documentary, executive produced by Oscar-winning "Titanic" director Mr. Cameron, claims to have found the family tomb of Jesus Christ, unearthed in Jerusalem. The findings include circumstantial evidence suggesting Christ and Mary Magdalene were a couple, and that they had a son named Judah.

Discovery formally announced the special last month and quickly incited a worldwide media frenzy, including stories in Time and Newsweek and links on the Drudge Report. But much of the coverage was highly skeptical of the documentary's findings. Prominent archaeologists disputed the program, while Christian groups criticized it for conflicting with the New Testament.

Although Mr. Leavy said the network stands by the documentary "100 percent," the company took several unusual steps in the wake of the controversy that could be seen as distancing itself from the content.

Last week, Discovery abruptly scheduled a panel debate to air after the documentary, moderated by Discovery newsman Ted Koppel. Discovery's announcement of the panel emphasized that Mr. Koppel "has no connection to the production of 'The Lost Tomb of Jesus'" and that "the panel will explore the filmmakers' profound assertions and challenge their assumptions and suggested conclusions."

When the panel discussion aired, guests criticized the documentary as "archaeo-porn" that played fast and loose with the facts.

The day after the March 4 airing, Discovery yanked a planned repeat of "Tomb" from its more hard-news-branded Discovery Times Channel.

When the Nielsen ratings revealed that "Tomb" averaged 4.1 million viewers - Discovery's largest audience since September 2005 - the network declined to put out a press release touting the numbers, as would be standard practice for a highly successful premiere. The second-season premiere of Discovery Channel's "Future Weapons," for instance, earned a media announcement for its audience of 2.5 million. A network representative, however, insisted Discovery was not trying to bury "Tomb."

No press release on the ratings was sent out, Mr. Leavy said, because of the show's subject matter. As for the yanked Discovery Times repeat, Mr. Leavy said that outlet wasn't the best venue to repeat the special.

The last record-setting Discovery Channel project also was about a sensitive subject, the9/11-themed "The Flight That Fought Back," yet Discovery issued a press release about its ratings.

The network still plans to air a previously scheduled "Tomb" repeat on its Spanish network on March 18, as well as an HD version on Discovery HD Theater on March 28.

"We are very proud of the program - we stand by it 100 percent," Mr. Leavy said.

Mr. Leavy said the network should be credited for airing a critical post-show panel.

"We added the Koppel panel once it was clear there was worldwide interest," he said. "Our responsibility is to give viewers all the information and let them decide. There is no way to ever prove this beyond a reasonable doubt."

Moving forward, Mr. Leavy said the network plans to increase its focus on archeology projects. The network recently signed History Channel's "Digging for Truth" host Josh Bernstein to develop new archeology series and specials.

"We are going to be doubling down in this space," he said. "We will soon be back in the news with more archeology."


http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11681

Your point?




Originally posted by sithsaber408
Whatever word you want to call it, how would you explain that at a youth conference a man can pray to Christ for the "glossolalia" and that ...bang!... in an instant 100 kids who had no preperation other than an open heart were doing it?

Your words are merely scientific labels of supernatural actions.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Glossolalia is fabricated, meaningless speech.

According to Dr. William T. Samarin, professor of anthropology and linguistics at the University of Toronto, "glossolalia consists of strings of meaningless syllables made up of sounds taken from those familiar to the speaker and put together more or less haphazardly . . . Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language."

Robtard
Sorry, but anyone who actually believes that speaking in "tongues" is valid proof of a higher being/power is seriously stupid. How hard is it for anyone to fall to the floor, convulse and mutter out gibberish?

As far as faith healing, if it were true, why aren't faith healers at hospitals and infirmaries curing the masses of HIV, cancer and all manners of deadly diseases? Seems like that would not only be a proper Christian thing to do especially for children afflicted with deseases, but it would gain Christianity thousands of converts and serve as undeniable proof.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Robtard
Sorry, but anyone who actually believes that speaking in "tongues" is valid proof of a higher being/power is seriously stupid. How hard is it for anyone to fall to the floor, convulse and mutter out gibberish?

As far as faith healing, if it were true, why aren't faith healers at hospitals and infirmaries curing the masses of HIV, cancer and all manners of deadly diseases? Seems like that would not only be a proper Christian thing to do especially for children afflicted with deseases, but it would gain Christianity thousands of converts and serve as undeniable proof.

You are speaking of the Pentacostal "Holly Roller" type churches.

What do you say to me sitting quietly in my own room praying for the gift of tounges, feeling as though I was on top of a mountain with the wind in my face and a cool brook in my chest as the Holy Spirit gave me the gift of that utterance?


What do you say to the folks at my church who stand around quite calmly and let the Spirit flow through them, not falling down or convulsing or any of that, but rather being used by God.


At the youth event I spoke of, nobody was on the floor looking like an epileptic.... they were standing upright, still and praying, and the pastor prayed for the gift and ... BAM!... 100 kids had it at once.


You misunderstand faith healing as well.

It's not some magic power, to be used at a human's discretion with a point of a finger. It happens when and where God wills.


What do you say to Lori Waters whose 2 year old grandson fell off of the second story balcony and ruptured his spleen?

The boy who was unconscious at Sutter Medical Center (in Roseville,CA) where she waited in the next room as the doctors decided that the rupture in his spleen was too severe to handle there and that he should be lifted by helicopter to UC Davis. Where she took our pastors word on Sat. night that somebody in the weekend was going to recieve a miracle (be it finances, or health, or whateve else, he wasn't sure), and decided that because it was Sunday night and the weekend wasn't over yet that she would stand on that word and ask God to heal the baby boy.

What do you say to the doctors at UC Davis receiving the boy who was already gaining his conciousness back in the helicopter, and finding through x-rays and other tests that THERE WAS NO LONGER A RUPTURE IN HIS SPLEEN and that in fact, he was in perfect health?



What do you say Rob?

Probably the same thing as the doctors at UC Davis:... nothing.

You have no answer for it, just as they didn't.


God is real, His son Jesus Christ is real, and the power of the Holy Spirit is real.

You don't have to believe it, but when it comes to the gifts of Tounges, or Healing, or Prophecy..... you would do well not to speak ill of things that you've never seen for yourself and have no real understanding of.

Robtard
Originally posted by sithsaber408
You are speaking of the Pentacostal "Holly Roller" type churches.

What do you say to me sitting quietly in my own room praying for the gift of tounges, feeling as though I was on top of a mountain with the wind in my face and a cool brook in my chest as the Holy Spirit gave me the gift of that utterance?


What do you say to the folks at my church who stand around quite calmly and let the Spirit flow through them, not falling down or convulsing or any of that, but rather being used by God.


At the youth event I spoke of, nobody was on the floor looking like an epileptic.... they were standing upright, still and praying, and the pastor prayed for the gift and ... BAM!... 100 kids had it at once.


You misunderstand faith healing as well.

It's not some magic power, to be used at a human's discretion with a point of a finger. It happens when and where God wills.


What do you say to Lori Waters whose 2 year old grandson fell off of the second story balcony and ruptured his spleen?

The boy who was unconscious at Sutter Medical Center (in Roseville,CA) where she waited in the next room as the doctors decided that the rupture in his spleen was too severe to handle there and that he should be lifted by helicopter to UC Davis. Where she took our pastors word on Sat. night that somebody in the weekend was going to recieve a miracle (be it finances, or health, or whateve else, he wasn't sure), and decided that because it was Sunday night and the weekend wasn't over yet that she would stand on that word and ask God to heal the baby boy.

What do you say to the doctors at UC Davis receiving the boy who was already gaining his conciousness back in the helicopter, and finding through x-rays and other tests that THERE WAS NO LONGER A RUPTURE IN HIS SPLEEN and that in fact, he was in perfect health?



What do you say Rob?

Probably the same thing as the doctors at UC Davis:... nothing.

You have no answer for it, just as they didn't.


God is real, His son Jesus Christ is real, and the power of the Holy Spirit is real.

You don't have to believe it, but when it comes to the gifts of Tounges, or Healing, or Prophecy..... you would do well not to speak ill of things that you've never seen for yourself and have no real understanding of.

1) Pray for the gift of tongues all you like, but explain how anyone, even the "unrighteous" can utter out gibberish? There, I just did it... I uttered gibberish and I didn't need God to help me do it, explain that.

2) Good for them? Anyone can stand and think or say "The spirit is flowing through me"

3) This gift that the 100 children had was speaking in gibberish correct? If so, see answer #1 above.

4) How convenient it only happens when/where science isn't around, that the majority of "faith heals" happen at religious gatherings where only like minded people gather.

5) Ever hear of a misdiagnosis? It happens, doctors do make mistakes and think that patients were hurt more (or less) severely than first diagnosed.

It's not that I "speak ill" of such things as I call shenanigans when I see it... I also don't believe in other foolish supernatural mysticism like curses, vampires, bogeymen, ghost, disembodiment, seeing the future etc. etc. etc.

sithsaber408
^^^^

No and you shouldn't believe in those things, either.

I'll not waste your time, as I know you don't believe me.

But I'm no fool, and I only believe in the things that I do because I've seen them happen in front of me. I've seen the power of the Holy Spirit to act supernaturaly in a person's life.

I hope someday you might experience something like it too.

Robtard
Originally posted by sithsaber408
^^^^

No and you shouldn't believe in those things, either.

I'll not waste your time, as I know you don't believe me.

But I'm no fool, and I only believe in the things that I do because I've seen them happen in front of me. I've seen the power of the Holy Spirit to act supernaturaly in a person's life.

I hope someday you might experience something like it too.

Fair enough... The minute I see someone miraculously healed before my eyes because God/Jesus was called upon, I'll begin to believe. I'm not holding my breath for it though...

FeceMan
Sith, don't bother. Even when the proof of God becomes undeniable, they will still deny it.

You have touched on the problem with glossolalia--the stereotypical church as seen in Borat, with people running around, dancing, shouting, being "slain in the Spirit," etc.

ragesRemorse
this doesnt make any sense, jesus wasnt buried in his tomb, his body was left inside a friends tomb. Does anyone not acknowledge this? I mean whatever, the government is taking christ away from our country and this will only add fuel to the fire. bullcrap! there is no way they can verify his dna, but they will WATCH

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Robtard
Jesus: Tales from the Crypt

Brace yourself. James Cameron, the man who brought you 'The Titanic' is back with another blockbuster. This time, the ship he's sinking is Christianity.

In a new documentary, Producer Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected --the cornerstone of Christian faith-- and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. And, get this, Jesus sired a son with Mary Magdelene.

No, it's not a re-make of "The Da Vinci Codes'. It's supposed to be true.

Let's go back 27 years, when Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot, a Jerusalem suburb. of Jerusalem. The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archologists were summoned, and the stone caskets carted away for examination. It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.
Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.

There was also this little inconvenience that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Christ's resurrection, after all, is the main foundation of the faith, proof that a boy born to a carpenter's wife in a manger is the Son of God.

But film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

Ever the showman, (Why does this remind me of the impresario in another movie,"King Kong", whose hubris blinds him to the dangers of an angry and very large ape?) Cameron is holding a New York press conference on Monday at which he will reveal three coffins, supposedly those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene. News about the film, which will be shown soon on Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision, and Israel's Channel 8, has been a hot blog topic in the Middle East (check out a personal favorite: Israelity Bites) Here in the Holy Land, Biblical Archeology is a dangerous profession. This 90-minute documentary is bound to outrage Christians and stir up a titanic debate between believers and skeptics. Stay tuned.

--Tim McGirk/Jerusalem
http://time-blog.com/middle_east/

http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/historical-Jesus/the-Jesus-family-tomb/the-Jesus-family-tomb.htm

The Jesus tomb discovery hoax and those who fell for it hook, line, sinker, the fisherman, his boots, the fishing rod, and his boat.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
this doesnt make any sense, jesus wasnt buried in his tomb, his body was left inside a friends tomb. Does anyone not acknowledge this? I mean whatever, the government is taking christ away from our country and this will only add fuel to the fire. bullcrap! there is no way they can verify his dna, but they will WATCH

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Did you even watch the documentary?

It doesn't seem that way. If you did, you didn't understand it. To this end, I would invite you not to post in this thread anymore. This thread was open for at least a week before the program aired. In that time all the posts were speculation. The program has been rebroadcast several times on a number of basic and higher tier cable channels, however. If you can't avail yourself of one of the repeat showings, then you don't need to be commenting on the very specific topic of this thread.

And Adam may say you, like the biblical scholar he mentioned from the 'critical look", are approaching it with a closed mind. But I disagree. It's clear from your useless comments that you didn't even approach the documentary at all. But I agree you didn't even try because you're close minded.




Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/historical-Jesus/the-Jesus-family-tomb/the-Jesus-family-tomb.htm

The Jesus tomb discovery hoax and those who fell for it hook, line, sinker, the fisherman, his boots, the fishing rod, and his boat.

In other words, since the archaeological and scientific evidence contradicts The Bible, it is the evidence that is wrong. roll eyes (sarcastic)

FeceMan
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Frequency of Names:

Jesus, Son of Joseph: 1/190
Mariamne: 1/160
Matia: 1/40
Maria: 1/4

Based on these results, it would appear that the names in and of themselves were not uncommon at the time. However, the chances of them being found together are an extremely remote 1 in 97,280,000.
Try 1 in 600.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by FeceMan
Try 1 in 600.

Still statistically greater than chance.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Still statistically greater than chance.
There's a reason why scholars have dismissed it.

Alliance
Because the evidence is not that compelling.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Alliance
Because the evidence is not that compelling.
Well, yes, that's what I was getting it.

Atlantis001

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'm open to whatever James and the project present...however, I just know both sides of the fence (atheist and Christians) are just gonna go at each others throats. Anyways, no one does anything for free...so whatever people will pay for this most likely is the main object and the actual project itself.

Yeah, but that is the situation in most documentaries and films of the sorts.

Im sure there are still people somewhere who just do it for free in the name of knowledge and discovery...

Atlantis001
I think there was a lot of evidence in there to just ignore it. I hope there is still someone researching it.

the Darkone
Originally posted by Atlantis001
I think there was a lot of evidence in there to just ignore it. I hope there is still someone researching it.


No there wasn't, during the time of old testament and new testament there a lot people called joseph, joshua, mary, etc these names and countless others are very well used. The whole thing was a waste of time, bottom line.

Atlantis001
Originally posted by the Darkone
No there wasn't, during the time of old testament and new testament there a lot people called joseph, joshua, mary, etc these names and countless others are very well used. The whole thing was a waste of time, bottom line.

Yes, but thats why there is statistics. The probability of finding all those names togheter is minimal.

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
In other words, since the archaeological and scientific evidence contradicts The Bible, it is the evidence that is wrong. roll eyes (sarcastic)

seeing how it claims to be something as impactfull as to what inspires Christian religion. I would like to think that the discovery verifies what the Bible speaks of Jesus' life rather than raise questions about the validity of the discovery

The big EH
Originally posted by Draco69
How the hell did they do DNA testing? We actually have a semen sample from Jesus from the New Testament? you actually think seamen samples would last 2000 years?

FeceMan
El oh el, Jesus sperm...

Gross.

Atlantis001
DNA doesn´t come only from semen, bone dust also have DNA.

Grand_Moff_Gav
Sad thing is, this is nothing new, the BBC did a very similar documentary to this one in which they found possible remains of Christ. However this will make interesting viewing. Will it bring down Christianity? No of course not, chances are its garbage and half thought theories. We all know where the truth behind Christianity is...Vatican City! Let's bust it open!


Now lets not forget, that if Jesus had a tomb, the apostles would have known where it was and they would have removed the body of Christ and most likely have destroyed it. Or the Church would haev done so in the years after.

ragesRemorse
im not very intelligent, so exscuse the ignorance in this question. How would Dna testing prove anything without a fresh sample to compare it to? what would they find out...that the Dna was that of a jewish man? Unless jesus took a vacation to come down to earth and give someone a fresh sample of his Dna, how can they prove anything with dna testing?

Nellinator
DNA testing would simply show how the people in the tomb were related.

Thundar
I once worked with a Jesus(pronounced: "Hesus). Pretty nice guy, he was Hispanic though. Jim Caviezel(sp?) was Hispanic too..and he PLAYED Jesus in the Passion. Does everyone see where I'm going with this?

Goddess Kali
Jim Caviezel is gorgeous...i didnt know he was Hispanic

Robtard
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Jim Caviezel is gorgeous...i didnt know he was Hispanic

A 1 minute online search reveals that his father is Slovak/Italian and his mother is Irish American and he was born in the U.S.

Goddess Kali
So where does Thundar get that from ?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
I once worked with a Jesus(pronounced: "Hesus). Pretty nice guy, he was Hispanic though. Jim Caviezel(sp?) was Hispanic too..and he PLAYED Jesus in the Passion. Does everyone see where I'm going with this?

Your gay?

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your gay?



laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing


O shit...i didnt even figure that !!! There's nothing to be ashamed of Thundar, welcome to Analville droolio

lancethebrave
you can get fragmented DNA from bones, enough to say this works and not enough to clone, and it doesn't really put away the he was resurrected even though the chances are... slim its that he physically ascended to heaven shortly after he came back

Sorgo X
Did this thing ever pull through? Did he actually find where Jesus was buried?

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by Nellinator
DNA testing would simply show how the people in the tomb were related.

However, there is no possible way on linking that to Jesus...but I am sure they will try,

Alliance
Which is why this whole thing has been stupid since first report.

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by Nellinator
DNA testing would simply show how the people in the tomb were related.

So in other words, it would prove nothing?

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
So in other words, it would prove nothing?

No, it would establish the relationships of the people in the tomb.

FeceMan
Bet we could just assume that and get it done faster and for less money.

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, it would establish the relationships of the people in the tomb.

Obviously geek

but would do nothing in the way of proving the body is that of Jesus Christ. Or would it? I'm not smart so i need spoon fed. reading

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by FeceMan
Bet we could just assume that and get it done faster and for less money.

money is an apparent result of this controversy. But take a look at the guy doing it. I can't recall the spelling of his name, but he's a tool. A jewish tool to bot. No agenda there....at all.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Obviously geek

but would do nothing in the way of proving the body is that of Jesus Christ. Or would it? I'm not smart so i need spoon fed. reading

The DNA testing alone only establishes the relationships of the individuals buried in the tomb.

The DNA testing along with the statistical probability of the names and relationships of the individuals buried in the tomb coinciding with those of the biblical Jesus and his family is a strong inductive argument that this is the familial tomb of Jesus.

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The DNA testing alone only establishes the relationships of the individuals buried in the tomb.

The DNA testing along with the statistical probability of the names and relationships of the individuals buried in the tomb coinciding with those of the biblical Jesus and his family is a strong inductive argument that this is the familial tomb of Jesus.

thats what i was thinking, but considering that the biblical names of Jesus' family were of the most common names of the time, it then comes down merely to probability?

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
thats what i was thinking, but considering that the biblical names of Jesus' family were of the most common names of the time, it then comes down merely to probability?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Frequency of Names:

Jesus, Son of Joseph: 1/190
Mariamne: 1/160
Matia: 1/40
Maria: 1/4

Based on these results, it would appear that the names in and of themselves were not uncommon at the time. However, the chances of them being found together are an extremely remote 1 in 97,280,000.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
thats what i was thinking, but considering that the biblical names of Jesus' family were of the most common names of the time, it then comes down merely to probability?

So now you have to ask: Would "God" chose the most common names? Surely he would not. But this situation doesn't mean "he" did. Botton line...aboandon "god" and Jesus, and Mohammad while you're at it...

None of them are worth your admiration...much less your understanding.

JesusIsAlive
I think that a thread for this exists but I cannot locate it.

Anyhoo, these facts debunk the lie that Jesus' bones have been discovered in Jerusalem.

http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/historical-Jesus/the-Jesus-family-tomb/the-Jesus-family-tomb-9-facts-that-disprove-discovery-channel-lost-tomb-of-jesus.htm

big grin

Devil King

Robtard
Originally posted by Devil King


Hey man, somebody has to feed the monkey.

JesusIsAlive

JesusIsAlive

JesusIsAlive

JesusIsAlive

Devil King
The good part is that this will just get folded into the appropriate thread and sink to the bottom, where it belongs.

Devil King
Ouch! That was hard.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Facing Financial Facts -
How to Kill the Debt Monster

AUTHOR: Riser, Dr. Steven C.
For an increasing number of people, debt is becoming a real monster. The fear and dread that comes from debt is just as real as a predator in the home. So how can you dispatch the debt monster?

This intrigues me.

Boris
Just proves that he never rose from the dead.

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>