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Everyone is all powers. It can be all one side vs all the other, or one on ones. I just want to see people argue lulz.

Raziel wins by default without limitations

Originally posted by Tenfrente
I just want to see people argue lulz. Confound you...

And my vote goes to team 1.

Team 1

team 1

is Lu Bu that funny samurai type guy?

how do Team 1 beat Raziel?

Originally posted by Burning thought
is Lu Bu that funny samurai type guy?

how do Team 1 beat Raziel?


Well Naturally i ignore the invisibility thing, then he gets squashed like a bug.

Why in the world did you give team 1 Lu Bu. and also. Ryu could most likely take on either one of the members of team one with with trouble given certain abilities. Raziel as well. Lu bu is the down fall of the team. But that still means that Team 2 should win 2/3 of their matches.

So yeah my vote goes to Team 2

You do realize. That that Ryu hayabusa has shown his own very powerful form of the Hado fire blast. Which seems like it takes less time to charge. Ryubusa has Spirit Energy. Ryubusa has the True Dragon Sword which unlike the Masamune has spirital powers that are unfanthonamable. It the Masamunes weilder. Not the Masamune. It hasnt shown to have any powers wat so ever.

sooooo......

Messatsu Go Hado, Chi Energy, and Masamune =/> Ryu Hayabusa w/ True dragon Sword

Ryubusa alone would cause these guys hell. With everything in his possession. Dark Dragon Blade + Spirit Clones ftw.

its not Sephiroths masamune thats deadly, its Sephiroth himself thats deadly, a hado fire blast probably wont even have any effect on Sephiroth itll might even just be swatted away like Zacks blade beam

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Well Naturally i ignore the invisibility thing, then he gets squashed like a bug.

when he can on a whim go into the spectoral realm and return, so hes basically invincible, can go invisible, would blind human enemies with his light blast and use his elemental attacks to do the rest, he could cheaply take out all 3 by himself without any limitations

take into account Team 2 have Ryu and whats team 1 got? nothing much, Raziel would be like an assasin/rogue and take out the heavey hitters like Sephirth or Akuma, then it will be 3 against the weakest one on the field, i dont rly kno much on Orochi which is why i chose him as the remaining

lol @ swatted away the power of thee hadoken is way stronger tha Zacks blade beam

no iz notzsss!! its FF, FF beam>>>>.anyfin, Death star jelous of zackz beamsor "ime firein my lazorrr"

None of team 1 are ordinary Human.

I don't Raziel is anything on any of the guys on team 1

Originally posted by Csdabest
lol @ swatted away the power of thee hadoken is way stronger tha Zacks blade beam

Er? How is it that you know that exactly?

Originally posted by EvilAngel
None of team 1 are ordinary Human.

I don't Raziel is anything on any of the guys on team 1

obviously not ordinairy, but their human? Akuma is at least on the verge of it, do any of them have more resistence to being blinded by a great flash of light than the averge man that can be proven? its irrelevent anyway because they wont be able ot see raziel

well thinking is all very well, but i dont think any of them can do anything to Raziel, his wraith blade will tear out the souls that have souls and if apprently this "lifestream" BS which i think is simply FF term for soul but there ya go, cant prove it...will just kill sephiroth with a wraith blade in his head

Originally posted by Csdabest
lol @ swatted away the power of thee hadoken is way stronger tha Zacks blade beam
Feats that its "way" stronger?


3x3pt t3h Ka1N0rz wh0 pwnZ t3h v1d30g4m3 Un1v3rZ, n0th1ng d3f34tz k41n b3cuas3 0f BT's 1ov3, 4nD L0v3 c0nqu3rZ 4LL!`11!one

On the serious note, team 1 wins

Team 1.

Originally posted by Terryc250
3x3pt t3h Ka1N0rz wh0 pwnZ t3h v1d30g4m3 Un1v3rZ, n0th1ng d3f34tz k41n b3cuas3 0f BT's 1ov3, 4nD L0v3 c0nqu3rZ 4LL!`11!one

On the serious note, team 1 wins


woops, sry for hurting you

soooo, how does team 1 win? debate it....go on, wups i mean try to......give reasons, and no gameplay plz

BTW, Orochi is nothing near human. He's a God. Even though I prefer the chars from 2, I'd probably say 1 wins too.

so you have proof his eye lenses are stronger and will not be equelly effected by light blast?

but how, ime sure this was created to debate, otherwise the way its gone so far its a poll, so i suppose you coud have one added if you ask a moderator

please debate this, why what are they going to do, whats team 1 going to do to team 2 specifically? what sort of attacks? Raziel has nifty tricks on team 2, loads of them, and Ryu is apprently covered in attacks

Originally posted by Burning thought
obviously not ordinairy, but their human? Akuma is at least on the verge of it, do any of them have more resistence to being blinded by a great flash of light than the averge man that can be proven? its irrelevent anyway because they wont be able ot see raziel

well thinking is all very well, but i dont think any of them can do anything to Raziel, his wraith blade will tear out the souls that have souls and if apprently this "lifestream" BS which i think is simply FF term for soul but there ya go, cant prove it...will just kill sephiroth with a wraith blade in his head

Too bad Raziel can only take out souls when the enemy is on the verge of death, Razel with a wraith blade in Sephiroth? Lolz, Raziel is like the slowest character in here

Originally posted by Terryc250
Too bad Raziel can only take out souls when the enemy is on the verge of death, Razel with a wraith blade in Sephiroth? Lolz, Raziel is like the slowest character in here


also the most stealthy, the one with TK which used with stealth means he can turn speed to nothing and be the first one to do it, and yeh, the reaver in your stomach makes you pretty much more on the verge of death, and yeh whats sephiroth going to do? lawl at him, while hes distracted fighting the other two, he finds theres the blade in his head and his head would explode, end off, or in his stomach, its a wraith blade so its not going to be stopped by his body and the thing explodes when it hits things, sephiroth would be ended

do you have a non in-game moment when raziel has to w8 for someone to be on the verge of death? as shown in SR 1 and 2 a wraithblade on raged turns you to dust and thats the normal one, the purified blade with the power of all the balance guardians inside it turns you to ash with a strike, so all this "verge of death" is not going to happen, theyll die in a few strikes

then the other 2 shouldnt be too difficult with a combintion of TK, stealth and elemental attacks

Originally posted by Burning thought
so you have proof his eye lenses are stronger and will not be equelly effected by light blast?

but how, ime sure this was created to debate, otherwise the way its gone so far its a poll, so i suppose you coud have one added if you ask a moderator

please debate this, why what are they going to do, whats team 1 going to do to team 2 specifically? what sort of attacks? Raziel has nifty tricks on team 2, loads of them, and Ryu is apprently covered in attacks

The reason a light would blind you is because your muscles and other parts of your eye would not be able to suffer the strain.

All 3 of those are beyond human limits so it's a long shot to assume a little green flash is gonig to blind them.


Give list and details of Raziel feats in battle, otherwise i'm inclined to think he's the most pathetic guy in it.

Zacks Blade beam(extremely similiar to clouds) has done nothing more than cut on the surface of the ground for around 10 to 15 yards before fading out. And its not that very fast. Hadokens have been seen and known to level sides of buildings and punch holes into walls. So far Ryubusa chi blast has been seen to do just that aswell. But more instantly disintergrating battle ships on contact. So Sephiroth is not swatting that away. he would get instantly vaporized aswell.

None of team one is going to take on Ryu busa with ease on one one. team 1 will instantly get out matched and loutmaned from Ryubusa Art of the spirit Clone. Fighting Immortal Copies of Ryu hayabusa. Turning this into a 5 on 3 fight. Non only this but two out of three of Team 2 has soul sucking capabilities as well can go intangible. Akuma would not even get close to Ryu hayabusa to go hand to hand and he sure isnt hitting Ryu with any long range attacks with his speed. Why you ask. Because he would get burned with Art of the Fire Wheel. If any of them get close. Art of the Hurricane and watch them get stread to peices limps and grits getting slung all over the place. Ryu is not getting outclassed by anyone in a fight one on one here. Supernatural cheap powers are needed to fight Ryu and none of team one has them. Also 2 of three of Team 2 has the ability to go intangible


Team 1 doesnt really compare to team 2 that much.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Zacks Blade beam(extremely similiar to clouds) has done nothing more than cut on the surface of the ground for around 10 to 15 yards before fading out. And its not that very fast. Hadokens have been seen and known to level sides of buildings and punch holes into walls. So far Ryubusa chi blast has been seen to do just that aswell. But more instantly disintergrating battle ships on contact. So Sephiroth is not swatting that away. he would get instantly vaporized aswell.

Ryu's punches holes through walls?

Blade beam at 2:30, look how big the explosion is
Now5jv53Ihg

The WEAKEST version of Sephiroth, swatted away blade beam like nothing, AC Sephiroth is many times stronger.



Do you have a non-ingame moment where raziel does it to fully healthy opponents? Having gameplay is better then having nothing, not EVERYTHING in gameplay is BS, most of it works how it normally works.
I dont even know why you mention Raziels TK, its just a far away push.

um no explosion. that was mostly the dirt kicked um from Loz shockwave. Cloud blade beam merely stop it.

and u realize that the blade beam sephiroth swatted was one of the weakest right lol.

Yes Sephiroth is more powerful than he was back then. He did good stomping a blade beam that was basicly ment to cut into something. By he is not doing it with a Beam or ball that dicintergrates giant objects on contact.

Sephiroth didnt do it in the AC movie when fighting cloud. Cloud shot a blade beam at him and sephiroth dodged it. Know why because he would of got messed up from it. Mostlikly killed or severly injured from it.



Oh yeah. news flash Zack fighting Sephiroth in Last order. Where he swiped the blade beam away like its nothing. Is not cannon anymore. So all feats in the fight are void. Not like they prove much anyways

How do you know that it was "one of the weakest?" there was an explosion from Clouds beam blade and you even said yourself that theyre extremely similar, also that was a weaker diseased Cloud that fired that.

Cloud never fired a blade beam at Sephiroth, he took a chop at Sephiroth with his sword and missed, the sword impact and the ground made a beam-line, Cloud never charged a blade beam and fired it at Sephiroth, like against Loz/Yazoo.

Seeing as powerful Sephiroth is suppose to be, i highly doubt a beam blade would injure him, only the PIS move Omnislash would.

Also where did u get that Last Order isnt canon anymore? Just wondering.

Anyway, Sephiroth would beat Ryu even fast then Chaos Vincent would.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
The reason a light would blind you is because your muscles and other parts of your eye would not be able to suffer the strain.

All 3 of those are beyond human limits so it's a long shot to assume a little green flash is gonig to blind them.


Give list and details of Raziel feats in battle, otherwise i'm inclined to think he's the most pathetic guy in it.

a little green light? wheres this coming from? little green? what about large yellow flash? do you even know who Raziel is lol....thats Rhetoricle ime quite sure you do, however the way you said that is funny

most pathetic when he could 1 hit most without them even knowing, lawls...ill give you his powers, what do you mean feats? he uses his powers

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/sr1/glyphs.php
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/sr2/reavers.php
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/attackraz.php
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/reaverraz.php

what do the other guys have that can give them a hope? Sephiroths long cast times on spells? Akumas incredible island sinking punch....

Originally posted by Terryc250
Do you have a non-ingame moment where raziel does it to fully healthy opponents? Having gameplay is better then having nothing, not EVERYTHING in gameplay is BS, most of it works how it normally works.
I dont even know why you mention Raziels TK, its just a far away push.


it is if you think about it logically, what possible resistence can someone do if your ripping out their souls? their souls dont fight back, if Raziel simply waved his soul devouring reaver through you, logically it would take the soul out, but ofc logic escapes you "shrug"

not if gameplay is illogical to the power of the moves that have been stated, for example kain takes more than one slash with the blood reaver to kill a man, then a few minutes later with claws alone slashes through tonnes of conrete blocks and in the ending i showed you, slashes point first through the rock without stopping, the LOK games are full of gameplay, even BO 2 kain, the weakest can put his hand through a armoured knights chest taking his heart and dropping it on the other side

learn about Raziel, its not a far away push...lawls, its almost ridiculous debating with someone who has not the slightest knowledge on the characters, at least i know a couple of things on sephiroth and FF characters, your knowledge on LOK is shambles

Originally posted by Terryc250


Seeing as powerful Sephiroth is suppose to be, i highly doubt a beam blade would injure him, only the PIS move Omnislash would.

what makes this move PIS? because sephiroth was owned by it? Sephiroth not killing cloud is CIS, but the endurance of sephiroth doesnt change because of his foolery

Originally posted by Burning thought
a little green light? wheres this coming from? little green? what about large yellow flash? do you even know who Raziel is lol....thats Rhetoricle ime quite sure you do, however the way you said that is funny

most pathetic when he could 1 hit most without them even knowing, lawls...ill give you his powers, what do you mean feats? he uses his powers

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/sr1/glyphs.php
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/sr2/reavers.php
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/attackraz.php
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/reaverraz.php



I'm confused.

You're talking as though various revers is supposed to be impressive. One of his most powerful reavers causes an AoE fire.... seriously, my assumption of Raziel being the weakest was dead one. I bet Lu Bu could probably kill him

When i say Feats, i might say:

Lu Bu killed 1000 men on his Own
or
Sephiroth was always known to be the best in the FFVII verse
or
Ryu slices a jet in half

Something that says "wow" about the character. All i know about Raziel is that he has little difficulty in slicing up some low level flunkies.


As it stands, Raziel seems boring, weak, and slow.

Currently here's my opinoin on this fight.

Sephiroth Battles Ryu
Orochi squashes Lu Bu
Akuma one shots Raziel

All 3 team on Ryu

Originally posted by EvilAngel
I'm confused.

You're talking as though various revers is supposed to be impressive. One of his most powerful reavers causes an AoE fire.... seriously, my assumption of Raziel being the weakest was dead one. I bet Lu Bu could probably kill him

When i say Feats, i might say:

Lu Bu killed 1000 men on his Own
or
Sephiroth was always known to be the best in the FFVII verse
or
Ryu slices a jet in half

Something that says "wow" about the character. All i know about Raziel is that he has little difficulty in slicing up some low level flunkies.


As it stands, Raziel seems boring, weak, and slow.

Currently here's my opinoin on this fight.

Sephiroth Battles Ryu
Orochi squashes Lu Bu
Akuma one shots Raziel

All 3 team on Ryu

the various reavers have some nifty powers, cant you see where it says freezes? what if Raziel freezes all 3 team 1 opponents? then what? Ryu cheap shots them all or raziel takes their souls, theres nothing they could do.....also light reaver blinds ,whats the resistence these characters have to that? none.....just as i thought

so w8 a min, Akuma one shots someone he cant see? who could possible blind him, who could possibly from his invisiblity TK hold him in the air, and whos reaver could simply take his soul by waving it through him...lawls, you see thats what i cal ridiculous, people who dont have a clue on the character say something like "akuma one shots raziel"

your looking for destructive feats, Raziel defeated several vampires who would probably destroy all 3 of these by themselves, Turel would let out a sonic blast and knock them to the floor until their bodies cant take it any more and they die

and how is Sephiroth being best in FF verse a feat, sounds more of a statement, i thought feats were actions? meh okie if their statements then Raziel is immortal as kain is.....can swallow souls which is basically instant kill for 2 that have souls, and imo 3 since lifestream=fancy word for soul imo

just because the Warlock and mage can together call upon powers of death, elemental magics and teleportion, does not mean the shadowy rogue cannot sneak behind and completly devastate them..Raziels the rogue, those 3 represent clothies

Originally posted by Burning thought
the various reavers have some nifty powers, cant you see where it says freezes? what if Raziel freezes all 3 team 1 opponents? then what? Ryu cheap shots them all or raziel takes their souls, theres nothing they could do.....also light reaver blinds ,whats the resistence these characters have to that? none.....just as i thought

so w8 a min, Akuma one shots someone he cant see? who could possible blind him, who could possibly from his invisiblity TK hold him in the air, and whos reaver could simply take his soul by waving it through him...lawls, you see thats what i cal ridiculous, people who dont have a clue on the character say something like "akuma one shots raziel"

your looking for destructive feats, Raziel defeated several vampires who would probably destroy all 3 of these by themselves, Turel would let out a sonic blast and knock them to the floor until their bodies cant take it any more and they die

They'd have to be standing close together, which is what i call stupid

Akuma can sense some kind of energy that all people have apparently. Though that is beside the point, i said in eariler post i'm debating assuming Raziel is Visible.

I'm going to make a Raziel vs Ganondorf thread, and give Ganondorf a gem of true seeing*. And I'm not going to turn off Ganondorf invunerability. You'll enter the thread, maybe try to fight your corner, then realise how stupid and pointless it is to keep the annoying thigns like that in a thread. But since i'm feeling particularly lazy on this weekend day, maybe we could skip the whole thread creating part?

Tell me more, and if he killed them all because he was invisible, don't even bother



*Warcraft item, allows to wielder to see all things in his normal sight range, be them material, spiritual, or cloaked

Originally posted by EvilAngel
They'd have to be standing close together, which is what i call stupid

Akuma can sense some kind of energy that all people have apparently. Though that is beside the point, i said in eariler post i'm debating assuming Raziel is Visible.

I'm going to make a Raziel vs Ganondorf thread, and give Ganondorf a gem of true seeing*. And I'm not going to turn off Ganondorf invunerability. You'll enter the thread, maybe try to fight your corner, then realise how stupid and pointless it is to keep the annoying thigns like that in a thread. But since i'm feeling particularly lazy on this weekend day, maybe we could skip the whole thread creating part?

Tell me more, and if he killed them all because he was invisible, don't even bother



*Warcraft item, allows to wielder to see all things in his normal sight range, be them material, spiritual, or cloaked

well i was talking potensially, if they were only a few meteres away from raz, but he could freeze one of them, he could TK another, Raziel has a lot of powers he can line up to incappacitate Team 1 and thats just Raziel, Ryu seems to be the power and has his own

what so Raziel cant be invisible because he will smoke them? thats a ridiculous thing to say, okie lets reduce all the Team 1 characters to human strength level and speed, also Raziel is not neccerily slow, he is agile and his body structure allows for more agility than the regular being and ofc, he is far far faster than a human, he can keep up with kain, but i dont see how raziel should be forced to fight opponents who are faster than him, without his own special abilities, technically he could just shackle the fastest character and then destroy them with the reaver

it seems unfair to take away one guys powers and not anothers

Raziel could beat Ganon, i dont think ganon seems as fast as the average Nosgothian vampire, is he even as quick as a human since Link can outclass him but "shrug" Ganons invulerability will not stop raziel from winning through freezing/Telekinetic powers

fights against kain and Raziel are won through speed, because neither are not really supersonic fighters, altho kain could technically be

Originally posted by Burning thought
well i was talking potensially, if they were only a few meteres away from raz, but he could freeze one of them, he could TK another, Raziel has a lot of powers he can line up to incappacitate Team 1 and thats just Raziel, Ryu seems to be the power and has his own

what so Raziel cant be invisible because he will smoke them? thats a ridiculous thing to say, okie lets reduce all the Team 1 characters to human strength level and speed, also Raziel is not neccerily slow, he is agile and his body structure allows for more agility than the regular being and ofc, he is far far faster than a human, he can keep up with kain, but i dont see how raziel should be forced to fight opponents who are faster than him, without his own special abilities, technically he could just shackle the fastest character and then destroy them with the reaver

it seems unfair to take away one guys powers and not anothers

Raziel could beat Ganon, i dont think ganon seems as fast as the average Nosgothian vampire, is he even as quick as a human since Link can outclass him but "shrug" Ganons invulerability will not stop raziel from winning through freezing/Telekinetic powers

fights against kain and Raziel are won through speed, because neither are not really supersonic fighters, altho kain could technically be


If he was fast enough. He can't TK lock Sephiroth becaue he has his own TK powers, whose feats i'm surely probably over do Raziels

Akuma, maybe, be i don't see what stops Akuma speed blitzing Raziel honestly.

Orochi, limited knowledge, though if he's part God, i doubt it.


No, because it's a power that makes this completely one sided. Except for Akuma, which by the way you didn't counter. Apparently he can sense an energy Raziel will give off....

Now you know how V2D feels in most energy Ganon vs thread.


I will make that thread, and no, not here, i don't have a concept of this "mercy" business, I'm make it on Avengers thread, where V2D will have full access to it.... I'm just that evil.


Akuma and Sephiroth appaear to be much faster

Originally posted by Terryc250
Also where did u get that Last Order isnt canon anymore? Just wondering.

Zack's scape from Nibelheim in LO is still canon, but the Nibelheim incident was retconed by CC.
But Zack and Sephiroth are stronger in the game than in the OVA, and their fight is more impressive.



Yes, he would.


And about defending himself of energy attacks like the Hadouken... Intangibility FTW!

Originally posted by EvilAngel
If he was fast enough. He can't TK lock Sephiroth becaue he has his own TK powers, whose feats i'm surely probably over do Raziels

Akuma, maybe, be i don't see what stops Akuma speed blitzing Raziel honestly.

Orochi, limited knowledge, though if he's part God, i doubt it.


No, because it's a power that makes this completely one sided. Except for Akuma, which by the way you didn't counter. Apparently he can sense an energy Raziel will give off....

Now you know how V2D feels in most energy Ganon vs thread.


I will make that thread, and no, not here, i don't have a concept of this "mercy" business, I'm make it on Avengers thread, where V2D will have full access to it.... I'm just that evil.


Akuma and Sephiroth appaear to be much faster

show me the logic of this please, just because sephiroth has TK, he cant be Tked? doesnt work like that.....Kain has TK but Raziel can TK him....whats your logic behind that argument? also its not called Tk is it? when has something been called TK that sephiroth does in FF?

Akuma, but how fast does he go? and why does everyone throw around the term speed blitzing, how fast is Akuma, he would have to be hundreds of times faster to actually blitz

hes a God? i thought you were one of those who knows how much of a title "God" term is...

an energy from a dead guy? Chi isnt it? its a energy source from a completly diffrent verse that at the same time sounds like something a living person would give off, good maybe V2D will be able to debate this thing

who appears much faster? sephiroth? without any feats ime not sure about that, and ive not seen Akuma yet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
show me the logic of this please, just because sephiroth has TK, he cant be Tked? doesnt work like that.....Kain has TK but Raziel can TK him....whats your logic behind that argument? also its not called Tk is it? when has something been called TK that sephiroth does in FF?

Akuma, but how fast does he go? and why does everyone throw around the term speed blitzing, how fast is Akuma, he would have to be hundreds of times faster to actually blitz

hes a God? i thought you were one of those who knows how much of a title "God" term is...

an energy from a dead guy? Chi isnt it? its a energy source from a completly diffrent verse that at the same time sounds like something a living person would give off, good maybe V2D will be able to debate this thing

who appears much faster? sephiroth? without any feats ime not sure about that, and ive not seen Akuma yet.

His TK is greater than Sephiroths, I actually got that logic from Pokemon.... but it sounds good so I dunno is it different? i assumed they were the same, both using mind powers to manipulate your enemy physically....

I'm not sure, someone told me he's seriously fast and i just assumed that to be true, look in the respect thread?

I am, but no matter what word, If you're 'godly' even as a describing word it paints an impressive picture

Chi, or Pi, i can't remember. Apparently everything has it, i really should read his respect thread but, it all sounds so hard.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
His TK is greater than Sephiroths, I actually got that logic from Pokemon.... but it sounds good so I dunno is it different? i assumed they were the same, both using mind powers to manipulate your enemy physically....

I'm not sure, someone told me he's seriously fast and i just assumed that to be true, look in the respect thread?

I am, but no matter what word, If you're 'godly' even as a describing word it paints an impressive picture

Chi, or Pi, i can't remember. Apparently everything has it, i really should read his respect thread but, it all sounds so hard.

two beings having TK does not mean anything, the one who does it first has control, you cant exactley attack a force of the mind, although the overall effect is a physical hold, having TK yourself will not save you

who knows, i find it hard to belive someone dead can have a chi flow but being able to sense something and seeing it is a diffrent matter, if raziel is moving the sensing of Akuma may make him attack the place where Raziel was but if he was moving, it would not hit raziel, he could not neccerily be accurate just by sensing, not as accurate as actually seeing the foe

Originally posted by Burning thought
two beings having TK does not mean anything, the one who does it first has control, you cant exactley attack a force of the mind, although the overall effect is a physical hold, having TK yourself will not save you

who knows, i find it hard to belive someone dead can have a chi flow but being able to sense something and seeing it is a diffrent matter, if raziel is moving the sensing of Akuma may make him attack the place where Raziel was but if he was moving, it would not hit raziel, he could not neccerily be accurate just by sensing, not as accurate as actually seeing the foe

Even in given isntant, Raziel TK hold Sephiorth, Sephiroth TK Holds Raziel, Akuma one shots Raziel

Sight is a sense, do you attack where you saw something a few seconds ago?

Don't confuse it with smell.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Even in given isntant, Raziel TK hold Sephiorth, Sephiroth TK Holds Raziel, Akuma one shots Raziel

Sight is a sense, do you attack where you saw something a few seconds ago?

Don't confuse it with smell.

whats to stop Raziel from doing it to Akuma, this is all piling on the fact that theres now 2 vs Raziel, leaving Team 2 with more options for their other 2 to attack Orchi or pile up on Akuma, i think Ryu may have stasis effects, depending on the distance the charatcers are as well and the speed of Akuma he could Tk shackle Sephiroth and then Akuma, also if hes allowed to go spectoral he could escape the TK and come back.

looking at the respect thead, Akuma has no speed feats according to that, their all strength, but no speed.....i read most of the respect thread...he looks slow to me

if Raziel is not allowed to come back into material from spectroal then he would just have to let out one last power in his death, possbily ice

well this dependso n how this sense is then, how he senses this energy is dependant, but i have doubts Raziel would have a flow of this energy

Originally posted by Burning thought
whats to stop Raziel from doing it to Akuma, this is all piling on the fact that theres now 2 vs Raziel, leaving Team 2 with more options for their other 2 to attack Orchi or pile up on Akuma, i think Ryu may have stasis effects, depending on the distance the charatcers are as well and the speed of Akuma he could Tk shackle Sephiroth and then Akuma, also if hes allowed to go spectoral he could escape the TK and come back.

looking at the respect thead, Akuma has no speed feats according to that, their all strength, but no speed.....i read most of the respect thread...he looks slow to me

if Raziel is not allowed to come back into material from spectroal then he would just have to let out one last power in his death, possbily ice

well this dependso n how this sense is then, how he senses this energy is dependant, but i have doubts Raziel would have a flow of this energy

True, though, What's to stop Sephiroth TK holding all 3? hmm

Ryu can escape via teleport, not sure about Lu-Bu

Raziel could TK all 3 of the oposing side, only he can only shackle them one at a time, so the most dangerous ones first to last, and then freeze/soul reave to finish them off

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ryu can escape via teleport, not sure about Lu-Bu

Raziel could TK all 3 of the oposing side, only he can only shackle them one at a time, so the most dangerous ones first to last, and then freeze/soul reave to finish them off

You can't teleport out of a TK

Originally posted by EvilAngel
You can't teleport out of a TK

what makes you say that?

TK is holding you, if someone teleports they momenterily dont excist, which would break the TK since its not holding anything, ofc you could teleport out of Tk, why wouldnt you?

Originally posted by Burning thought
what makes you say that?

TK is holding you, if someone teleports they momenterily dont excist, which would break the TK since its not holding anything, ofc you could teleport out of Tk, why wouldnt you?

TK stops you from moving, I was under the assumption you have to do something to teleport.

Even so, He teleports, gets re-TK'ed

Originally posted by EvilAngel
TK stops you from moving, I was under the assumption you have to do something to teleport.

Even so, He teleports, gets re-TK'ed

well i dont know about Ryu, all ive seen of Sephiroths Tk is that he can hold the body still, not arms and legs so if Ryu needs to mvoe those to teleport or use abilities he is fine

well thats all very well, then Sephiroth will be floating about Tking whenever he gets the chance, what if Ryu simply teleports behind Sephiroth, the guys in a lot of trouble and likely dead and as soon as team 1s only Tker goes down, their done for considering Raziel would still be around

but this is just supposing theres no such thing as raziel invisiblity

Originally posted by Burning thought
well i dont know about Ryu, all ive seen of Sephiroths Tk is that he can hold the body still, not arms and legs so if Ryu needs to mvoe those to teleport or use abilities he is fine

well thats all very well, then Sephiroth will be floating about Tking whenever he gets the chance, what if Ryu simply teleports behind Sephiroth, the guys in a lot of trouble and likely dead and as soon as team 1s only Tker goes down, their done for considering Raziel would still be around

but this is just supposing theres no such thing as raziel invisiblity

Sephiroth can move about fine Whilst TKing, so TK, dead, dead, Re-TK, Dead

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Sephiroth can move about fine Whilst TKing, so TK, dead, dead, Re-TK, Dead

when has he done this, hmm interesting ive not seen Sephiroth move while doing it, how about when hes Tked by raziel as well...hes stuck also

and wtf? lol, whos going to be dead, sephiroth would be dead trying to attack Raziel, the Wraith blade is almost as big as Raz and hes not going to be holding it away from sephiroth if Sephiroth tried to attack, and Ryu wouldnt be doing nothing, Raziel will have most of the team 1 in TK shackles before tehy can kill him, and then thats the end of that, their not doing much in shackles

Akuma doesnt seem fast at all, and i dont know Orochi

Originally posted by Burning thought
when has he done this, hmm interesting ive not seen Sephiroth move while doing it, how about when hes Tked by raziel as well...hes stuck also

and wtf? lol, whos going to be dead, sephiroth would be dead trying to attack Raziel, the Wraith blade is almost as big as Raz and hes not going to be holding it away from sephiroth if Sephiroth tried to attack, and Ryu wouldnt be doing nothing, Raziel will have most of the team 1 in TK shackles before tehy can kill him, and then thats the end of that, their not doing much in shackles

Akuma doesnt seem fast at all, and i dont know Orochi

He was Tking Cloud and so while hovering himself and doing gestures..... I will also point out Sephiroth nearly physically torn apart Cloud & Co using TK. Now with 3, his focus is much better per person....

Originally posted by EvilAngel
He was Tking Cloud and so while hovering himself and doing gestures..... I will also point out Sephiroth nearly physically torn apart Cloud & Co using TK. Now with 3, his focus is much better per person....

its specualtion what he could do however, i know he was hovering but he wasnt moving much, he wasnt speed blitzing or any of that, and theres nothing to suggest he could, and his Tk was not pinpoint, their arms and such were all over the place

is there any proof that its TK? it does matter considering if it was simply force of will, then he would have to combat the will of the target, wheras TK does not have such limitations

Thing is Ryu Hayabusa has telekenesis as well. He has amazing contorl with that too. He lifted and levitated a boulder which probabbly weigh close to a tone and manuvered it around easily while dodging multiple attacks. While at the same time fighting and dealing damage with close range combat on top of the boulder. Ryu hayabusa has strong TK and some nice control with it as well. Also. Whats to stop Sephiroth from getting his soul and spirit sucked out of him from The Kietsu. ???

Originally posted by EvilAngel
He was Tking Cloud and so while hovering himself and doing gestures..... I will also point out Sephiroth nearly physically torn apart Cloud & Co using TK. Now with 3, his focus is much better per person....

Talking about focus... Sephiroth's focus was on Holy during all the battle. Considering Holy's power, if he focused on the party all the power he was focusing on Holy, he would probably explode them(the party).
You cannot compare Ryu holding a boulder, with Sephiroth holding fuc*ing Holy!

And physical/energy attacks don't work on Seph. The guy have intangibility.

Ryu's TK on that boulder is so funny. You make out it's amazing, when it's really not

Moving an inanimate object is nothing compared to holding a living being with it's own resistances.

Raziel looks like Mewtwo standing next to Ryu and his boulder brain.

Sephiroth has been shown to do astral projects. not Intangibility. If he does. Ryu Hayabusa sword also cuts through people who can go intangible. See the battle aginst Spirit Doku.

Also i was stated Ryu tk on the boulder at how impressive his control and focus is giving the circumstances of the battle. He was basicly in hell in hellish enviorments with the whole place following donw ontop of him along with support himself and the boulder manuvering it around a whole arsneal of attacks. Clearly stating how focus his TK and control is. Idiot. Also in the ending clip of Ninja Gaiden you can see Ryu Hayabusa going into spirit form becoming intangibile. So yua point.

Also i beleive sephiroth didnt hold Holy back with TK. An exploding the party is only assumptions. He didnt so it cant be given. But he deos have good focus.

Also if sephiroth is soo intangible, then how come he got killed by Cloud in AC. And FFVII. He wanted to make cloud suffer not have him kill him.

So please support the fact that sephiroth really does has Intangibility and not just astral projection.

Raziels TK cant hold anything.. all his "TK" does is push


Watch at 2:45
WuDD-tVrom4

same sephiroth that killed aeris

Sephiroth never created astral-projections, and he can turn intangible. I was going to use facts and evidences to explain everything to you Csdabest, but after reading you calling me an idiot without any reason, I decided to just ignore you. Sorry, but I don't have the patience right now to exchange childish insults with a troll like you.

If you want to have a civilized conversation with people, don't insult them.

Oh that part. I thought you were reffearing to the part when they were gathered in a room. And Sephiroth was transparant like.

But either way it still doesnt change the fact that the True Dragon Sword has the ability to cut through intangiuble objects.

Also who more childish. The one who says the insult. or the one who gets bent out of shape. But if it bothered you that badly. I am sorry.

Thats only one of the multiple scenes of Sephiroth teleporting/intageable, hes using parts of Jenova, and her powers.. AC Sephiroth IS infact 100% Jenova body, and even has control over the neg lifestream, who knows what powers it has, all we know is that its above Chaos/Omega

Originally posted by SHM
Sephiroth never created astral-projections, and he can turn intangible. I was going to use facts and evidences to explain everything to you Csdabest, but after reading you calling me an idiot without any reason, I decided to just ignore you. Sorry, but I don't have the patience right now to exchange childish insults with a troll like you.

If you want to have a civilized conversation with people, don't insult them.

ive not insulted you, please show me the evidence, i am interested in seeing the evidence that Sephiroth can quickly at will can go intangible and possibly back

show me where Sephiroth has TK, and its actually called TK

once again, Terry find out about characters before you debate them, especially when you think Raziel can only push with his TK "shrug"

Originally posted by Burning thought
show me where Sephiroth has TK, and its actually called TK


I Know for a fact you've seen it, so don't go wasting other people's time

Originally posted by Burning thought
ive not insulted you, please show me the evidence, i am interested in seeing the evidence that Sephiroth can quickly at will can go intangible and possibly back

show me where Sephiroth has TK, and its actually called TK

once again, Terry find out about characters before you debate them, especially when you think Raziel can only push with his TK "shrug"
Ive shown you Sephiroth using TK numorous times, i dont know why ur asking for it.. Oh can Raziel pull with his TK as well? My bad..

Originally posted by Terryc250
Ive shown you Sephiroth using TK numorous times, i dont know why ur asking for it.. Oh can Raziel pull with his TK as well? My bad..

yeh he can pull, freeze in place and basically the same kind of things sephiroth has done with his will

has it been called TK?

Originally posted by Burning thought
has it been called TK?

Using the power of the mind to make things move, and feel immense pain... and it's NOT TK?

I can't wait to hear the reasoning behind this....

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Using the power of the mind to make things move, and feel immense pain... and it's NOT TK?

I can't wait to hear the reasoning behind this....

it does not neccerily have to be TK, things in FF happen diffrently in other verses, as the creators have said, things happen on sephiroths will alone, if he is using will to effect a beings body then its not the same as using TK which is using the mind to create direct physical effect, however Sephiroth is using will it seems alone, to will something to happen, which in that case would be up to the character he is using it on willpower, it cannot really be TK if hes using it on a energy contruct like Holy

Knock over the top of a giant building with his mind effortlessly?

Lift up 8 ppl and torture them?

Hold back Holy, so it isnt capable of moving?

all done by Sephiroths mind.

What would you call it?

simply willpower as its called in the games

or shall i start calling lifestream souls since thats what i would call it, yet you say i cant, so ill call willpower, willpower, its not stated as TK, its diffrent in the FF fiction since if it was TK, they would call it so. Willpower VS anothers willpower

Do buildings have souls? Do materia have souls? Do trees have souls? Does the dirt have a soul? Does energy have soul? Because those are made up of the lifestream.

So whats the difference between Sephiroths "willpower" and TK?

You're just being picky now

This is gonig to confuse people.

What exactly is different between Sephiroth's will power and TK?

well hell no, not in real life, and not in LOK, but hell...do guys have Jenova cells go flying around the world in real life summoning up a stream where the dead "lifestream" goes? no it does not, if FF fiction has all things with spirits then ime not going to argue with it and technically, what has a soul depends on the belief, i think there are religions that belive there is a soul in everything, including the Earth itself, and in FF, clearly it does

TK would not be worried by willpower of another, wheras it would be Sephiroths willpower VS whoever he was trying to control

Originally posted by Burning thought
TK would not be worried by willpower of another, wheras it would be Sephiroths willpower VS whoever he was trying to control


Just prove that's how it works, and then that'll be fine

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Just prove that's how it works, and then that'll be fine

why should i prove? you prove its TK and thats how it works, it can go either way..since its your character you should be proving how its TK and not anything else, my assumption of what it is, is as good as anyones

only thing is, i have the FF game on my side and the developers simply calling it willpower, nothing to do with Telekinetic forces, simply Sephiroths willpower, no TK spoken off

Originally posted by Burning thought
why should i prove? you prove its TK and thats how it works, it can go either way..since its your character you should be proving how its TK and not anything else, my assumption of what it is, is as good as anyones

only thing is, i have the FF game on my side and the developers simply calling it willpower, nothing to do with Telekinetic forces, simply Sephiroths willpower, no TK spoken off

I'm gonig to make you suffer now, go look in the vs forum in Avengers thread.

You just being a wingy little brat now, something hasn't gone your way so you're nitpicking at the smallest of details.

You're arguement fails by definition, TK is using the power of the mind the affect the physical world, etc moving things.

If you are using your mind or if you want to be picky "Willpower" to affect the world physically that is TK.

I was just giving u the difference between "lifestream" and "soul" Lifestream is actually something that you can see and can be used for energy, etc, its different from "soul".

Whereas i dont see any difference between sephiroths "willpower" and "tk" besides the fact that sephiroth willpower can be used in more ways then just moving things.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
I'm gonig to make you suffer now, go look in the vs forum in Avengers thread.

You just being a wingy little brat now, something hasn't gone your way so you're nitpicking at the smallest of details.

You're arguement fails by definition, TK is using the power of the mind the affect the physical world, etc moving things.

If you are using your mind or if you want to be picky "Willpower" to affect the world physically that is TK.

lmao that is making me suffer? sorry sweetie but ime not in pain....

little brat? i think your just failing because TK is not used, its not my fault if TK is not used in FF universe....using power of your mind and simply willing something to happen is diffrent, simply becase against a person, your will VS their will, since its willpower based, TK is not, its simply your mind causing physical effects, not simply willpower alone, the diffrence is tiny, but its important



Originally posted by Terryc250
I was just giving u the difference between "lifestream" and "soul" Lifestream is actually something that you can see and can be used for energy, etc, its different from "soul".

Whereas i dont see any difference between sephiroths "willpower" and "tk" besides the fact that sephiroth willpower can be used in more ways then just moving things.

Raziel can see souls and uses it as energy source to heal his body when wounded, its not that much diffrent from soul and theres so many ways it can be connected mainly with a stream/river (river of souls/river styx etc etc) and the way the conciousness of a person goes to it (like a soul)

Sephiroth is willing something to happen like an effect, any effect, in this case stopping the FF characters and Holy from moving, TK would be a special mind attack that is not using just willpower, but the very purpose of not willing it to happen, but simply causing it to happen through an innnate power

Originally posted by Burning thought
lmao that is making me suffer? sorry sweetie but ime not in pain....

little brat? i think your just failing because TK is not used, its not my fault if TK is not used in FF universe....using power of your mind and simply willing something to happen is diffrent, simply becase against a person, your will VS their will, since its willpower based, TK is not, its simply your mind causing physical effects, not simply willpower alone, the diffrence is tiny, but its important


You're going to be sending post upon posting, against someone who's exactly like you, a stubbon fanaddict that doesn't bother you at all??



No, By Definition of the word itself, What Sephiroth does in FF is TK. You Fail

Originally posted by EvilAngel
You're going to be sending post upon posting, against someone who's exactly like you, a stubbon fanaddict that doesn't bother you at all??



No, By Definition of the word itself, What Sephiroth does in FF is TK. You Fail

you can call me what you like....your false accusations mean nothing to me ime afraid


nope, if you cant comprehend something dont try and bash it, hes using will, not innate mind power, hes willing something to happen and it does...diffrence, if someone with an equel will to him fought against his will, he could break and not be able to do his power on them however with direct TK, you cannot unless you break the mind directly of the oppresor

Originally posted by Burning thought
you can call me what you like....your false accusations mean nothing to me ime afraid


nope, if you cant comprehend something dont try and bash it, hes using will, not innate mind power, hes willing something to happen and it does...diffrence, if someone with an equel will to him fought against his will, he could break and not be able to do his power on them however with direct TK, you cannot unless you break the mind directly of the oppresor

Fine forget my little petname for you

Prove that fact, it's compeltely theorized, and i can't think of i a thing that suggorts such absurd claims, PROVE IT.

Asking me to prove it absurd, as V2D says: I can't prove a Negative

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Fine forget my little petname for you

Prove that fact, it's compeltely theorized, and i can't think of i a thing that suggorts such absurd claims, PROVE IT.

Asking me to prove it absurd, as V2D says: I can't prove a Negative

also you say post upon post? V2D will fall before me, as he always does, hell give up sooner and i could stop posting at any time so its not like your torturing me how queer

its not a negative however, your the one who needs to prove its TK in order for my theory to be incorrect, however mine is closer because the game states "willpower" just because you cant comprehend what ime trying to tell you is not my fault willing something to happen and using a direct mind power is not the same, my theory only beats yours imo because although to you, yours sounds a correct explansation, the developers and the game says "willpower" not "TK" if they were using Tk they would of menstioned it, its not beyond their understanding ime sure

Originally posted by Burning thought
also you say post upon post? V2D will fall before me, as he always does, hell give up sooner and i could stop posting at any time so its not like your torturing me how queer

its not a negative however, your the one who needs to prove its TK in order for my theory to be incorrect, however mine is closer because the game states "willpower" just because you cant comprehend what ime trying to tell you is not my fault willing something to happen and using a direct mind power is not the same, my theory only beats yours imo because although to you, yours sounds a correct explansation, the developers and the game says "willpower" not "TK" if they were using Tk they would of menstioned it, its not beyond their understanding ime sure

Before i even try this, Find me where it says that what Sephiroth did in the Northern Cave was "willpower"

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Before i even try this, Find me where it says that what Sephiroth did in the Northern Cave was "willpower"

no, because i dont have to....i know you cant prove its TK, i can take statements from that interivew about how strong Sephiroth willpowr is however and how they menstion his willpower a lot, with those in mind and TK still not menstoned, my argument stands the same as before

Originally posted by Burning thought
no, because i dont have to....i know you cant prove its TK, i can take statements from that interivew about how strong Sephiroth willpowr is however and how they menstion his willpower a lot, with those in mind and TK still not menstoned, my argument stands the same as before

Do it, or I'm not debating. You make claims, back them up. I'm not asking for alot. Just clarification

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Do it, or I'm not debating. You make claims, back them up. I'm not asking for alot. Just clarification

you dont have to debate if you dont want to, ime more interested in the Ganon thread you made in Avengers forum anyway, this is beating around the bush in this thread and i have no claims that need backing up more than yours, their both just assumptions

Originally posted by Burning thought
you dont have to debate if you dont want to, ime more interested in the Ganon thread you made in Avengers forum anyway, this is beating around the bush in this thread and i have no claims that need backing up more than yours, their both just assumptions

Not really, i have the dictionary on my side. You have a japanese to english translation, hehe, doesn't take much brains to figure out which out is more likely to be right. Says somethnig about your head though

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Not really, i have the dictionary on my side. You have a japanese to english translation, hehe, doesn't take much brains to figure out which out is more likely to be right. Says somethnig about your head though

not really, you have a dictionary that gives information on what you assume he is doing, i have a translation true, but its from the developers

my head? shows something about your mind and how easily frustrated you get lol....

Originally posted by Burning thought
not really, you have a dictionary that gives information on what you assume he is doing, i have a translation true, but its from the developers

my head? shows something about your mind and how easily frustrated you get lol....

No, i has a dictionary that gives me infomation on what i see him doing, beg difference

Please, you're walking on thin ice with that one. Anyone who knows two lagauages will tell you, it is impossible to translate perfects. Willpower and Telekenisis both imply using the power of the mind to make a thing happen. That fact will not change


Yeah, you keep thinking that ;p

Originally posted by EvilAngel
No, i has a dictionary that gives me infomation on what i see him doing, beg difference

Please, you're walking on thin ice with that one. Anyone who knows two lagauages will tell you, it is impossible to translate perfects. Willpower and Telekenisis both imply using the power of the mind to make a thing happen. That fact will not change


Yeah, you keep thinking that ;p

only TK is a direct attribute to an effect outside yourself, willpower is your own will made manifest, its diffrent, and its not so bad, the ice is strong enough for me atm

Originally posted by Burning thought
only TK is a direct attribute to an effect outside yourself, willpower is your own will made manifest, its diffrent, and its not so bad, the ice is strong enough for me atm

Will is something the brain commands, like TK, you Fail

will is an impulse of a want, TK is a direct command from the brain, will is an impulsive interest as well as a strong want, its diffrent....youuu failz
but this is pointless especially since i dont care about this thread, Team 2 wins, too many Tk users, soul devourers and characters with more devasating or incapacitating abilities, Akuma is prob the weakest, followed by Lubu in this matchup

Originally posted by Burning thought
will is an impulse of a want, TK is a direct command from the brain, will is an impulsive interest as well as a strong want, its diffrent....youuu failz
but this is pointless especially since i dont care about this thread, Team 2 wins, too many Tk users, soul devourers and characters with more devasating or incapacitating abilities, Akuma is prob the weakest, followed by Lubu in this matchup

Right and your heart wants..... oh wait no that'd be the brain too.

And this isn't teletubby land, Want, does = happen. You need to realise you're own error here, Sephiroth has and uses TK, accept the facts

So, stop posting if you don't care.

Lol, Akuma can send you to hell if you've commited a sin, that's auto kill on any of team 2.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg165/EvilAngelLarxene/Atleastyoutried.jpg

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Right and your heart wants..... oh wait no that'd be the brain too.

And this isn't teletubby land, Want, does = happen. You need to realise you're own error here, Sephiroth has and uses TK, accept the facts

So, stop posting if you don't care.

Lol, Akuma can send you to hell if you've commited a sin, that's auto kill on any of team 2.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg165/EvilAngelLarxene/Atleastyoutried.jpg

k last post then

lawz at no facts....only assuymptions

lawls at being sent to hell, Akuma is a slow poke, ive seen no speed from him and he looks slow in his gifs even

that tank doesnt fail, it would still crush you which makes you more pwnt than me

Originally posted by Burning thought
k last post then

lawz at no facts....only assuymptions

lawls at being sent to hell, Akuma is a slow poke, ive seen no speed from him and he looks slow in his gifs even

that tank doesnt fail, it would still crush you which makes you more pwnt than me

The point stands, there is not sufficent prove to say it's not TK.

It's a techinque, like Dimitri's or whoever is DS has a similar one

Burning thought you phail. Sephiroth is abiove everyone and anypne. He solos this with ease. You dunce. His TK which has not even been proven to be TK can move crumble buildings that have already been destroyed and burned to a crisp. He swats little blade beams like it nothing in uncnnoin events. He is soo uber. Hell just use the negative lifestream to win. Even though he has never used it in combat and has not real evidence it could be used to fight in these type of battles. Sephiroth invisncible. Cant be touch. Energy or physical attacks because he can go intangible. Thats how he wins yes. I dont care if Ryu hayabusa has a sword or is more skilled and deadlier than sephiroth in terms of actual fighting. Ryu blade won kill him cuz he is intangible even thought it has cut down intangible beings before. he can still TK crush him even if he has Teleports even though when u teleport iy puyd u ouy of existence. hshshshshdffsdhbsdfhhjdf hecks Soul sucking wont work because sephiroth is too powerful even though he has absolutely no defence. Raziels TK is worthless in this battle....He can just push. Thats it lolz hahahaha. None of Ryu hayabusa abilities or Raziels abilities matter in this battle cuz Sephiroth is almighty. Akuma sinks holes in one asilands with one single punch. Insta KO. WHAAHAHAHAHA i wont give Orochi feats because because he would get owned anyways. But it dfoesnt matta sephiroth owns this.

Team 1 wins curb stompa insta 1000000/10

Um Akuma can only do his Instant hell murder aginst people who has tainted hearts. Akuma attack would be usless aginst Ryu hayabusa since he has a pure heart. Dont beleive me. He was able to fight of his tainted feind blood from taking of showing he has a pure spirit and heart.

Akuma is too slow to contend.

`butr yeah hadoken,chi energy, masamune>Alllll including the heavenly creator of all univeseres made my game minds and the heavenly creator that made those minds

I just lol'd at SGS working on Hayabusa.

Not only would it not work do to his speed and/or teleportation, he hasn't the sins committed to get harmed by it regardless.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
I just lol'd at SGS working on Hayabusa.

Not only would it not work do to his speed and/or teleportation, he hasn't the sins committed to get harmed by it regardless.

Hayabusa has never killed anyone?

Last i checked killing is a sin ermm

Not anyone who didn't deserve to be killed, no.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Not anyone who didn't deserve to be killed, no.
#
*checks bible*

Though shall not kill.... i don't see any fine print, it's just killing is a mortal sin, Period

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Not anyone who didn't deserve to be killed, no.

Like that train conductor he killed, when he rammed the military train into a civilian train?

He didnt do that. On purpose that is. it not like he hijackthe the train and crashed it into it. Their were other explosions. And who to say that that rain Conductor was evil. I bet he melest little girls on that train

Originally posted by EvilAngel
#
*checks bible*

Though shall not kill.... i don't see any fine print, it's just killing is a mortal sin, Period

Dont bring the bible in this to defend a point when you obviously dont know much about it. Many mistranlation have in the bible. Its a sin to murder. But there is a time to kill. Murder and killing someone are two different things in a moral sense. Its the reason why religious wars and and killing someone during war is allowed.

So please shut up unless you actually know more than just the typical ten commandments.

Also the direct translation is screwed and if you knew anything some of the books and chapters of the bible has been removed. Read the source and read the outside sources about that source.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Like that train conductor he killed, when he rammed the military train into a civilian train?
Do you really think that was an intentional murder? lol

Originally posted by Csdabest
Dont bring the bible in this to defend a point when you obviously dont know much about it. Many mistranlation have in the bible. Its a sin to murder. But there is a time to kill. Murder and killing someone are two different things in a moral sense. Its the reason why religious wars and and killing someone during war is allowed.

So please shut up unless you actually know more than just the typical ten commandments.

Also the direct translation is screwed and if you knew anything some of the books and chapters of the bible has been removed. Read the source and read the outside sources about that source.

Oh this is rich.... this is fantastic, the times you told me "No" to the time when i point out the interveiw was mistranslated... and you try to pull that?!

It's called tough sh*t, you can't have it both ways

Ryu isn't the kind of guy who will let enemies just shed his blood everywhere.

Every intentional kill was done on a threat to human beings. Hayabusa never "killed for fun", simply put.

And are we ignoring the other reasons I pointed out why SGS fails on Ryu? Seems like it.

Solely the fact that he can use the True Dragon Sword effectively proves that SGS would fail on him.

*Tosses in "pureness of my soul" quote from DOA4*

Um No. Because in the actual bible if you read. The Bible actually judges when their is a time to kill mainly when it comes to sin. Basicly in judgement if those commandments are broken. Its actually in the translate version. Read leviticus. Especialy on the subject of homosexuality. I beleive it says If a male lies with another male in the way that one lies with a female. Then his blood guiltyness is upon him. He shall surely be put to death. Sooo many cases of in the bible where it justifies the stonning and killing of people. Religious war, judgement, self defence.

So no. You are wrong on many levels. so its not tough shit. Its actualy on the grounds of you dont know shit.

So yes there is a time to kill.

Thank you for pointng that out Flame. I stated it before i beleive but it was overlookedsadly.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Um No. Because in the actual bible if you read. The Bible actually judges when their is a time to kill mainly when it comes to sin. Basicly in judgement if those commandments are broken. Its actually in the translate version. Read leviticus. Especialy on the subject of homosexuality. I beleive it says If a male lies with another male in the way that one lies with a female. Then his blood guiltyness is upon him. He shall surely be put to death. Sooo many cases of in the bible where it justifies the stonning and killing of people. Religious war, judgement, self defence.

So no. You are wrong on many levels. so its not tough shit. Its actualy on the grounds of you dont know shit.

So yes there is a time to kill.

I have diffiuclty in beleive Jesus permits Killing of any sort. "Forgiveness" is the thing he spoke of, now i've never tried it but, i hear thats the thing he'd do

I agree with that, but don't say she doesn't know shit. She probably just didn't think of it. I didn't until you brought it up, also.

Not that I agree with the slaughtering of homosexuals, but of fiends/ninjas who threaten the innocent, yeah Hayabusa kills those due to his spirit.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame

And are we ignoring the other reasons I pointed out why SGS fails on Ryu?

I think Csa-bob is lying, thus if i prove him to be lying here, i can lower the value of his opinion, thus helpnig me

I was talking mainly about his teleportation, but I can see Ryu shooting an APFSDS core at Akuma's head in the span of a second.

Wow. So your saying that I am lying when its in the bible. I can bring up the exact chapter for you if you want. So no. Your just hindering yourself by saying that I am lying about actual fact, stated in the widely published king james version of the bible.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
I have diffiuclty in beleive Jesus permits Killing of any sort. "Forgiveness" is the thing he spoke of, now i've never tried it but, i hear thats the thing he'd do

He has. And its not exactly Jesus who perits i in a sense. But im not going to indulge in that explining session. God has allowed the killing for peopl to protect themselves and to defend the innocent aswell as punishment for breaking the laws of God hence the art of stoning one to death. To kill someone should always be left as a last method hence when there is a time to kill. If you look at how God as taken people lives and sent million to he death he has always gven chances and warning before he sent them to ther doom. Hence when their is a time to ill. Murdring a sin. The actual action to kill really isnt.

woe woe woe woe, w8 a min guys, the biggest question here is, IS Ryu a Christian? does he belive in all of that?

Akuma technique punishes you for your "sins"

Originally posted by Csdabest
He has. And its not exactly Jesus who perits i in a sense. But im not going to indulge in that explining session. God has allowed the killing for peopl to protect themselves and to defend the innocent aswell as punishment for breaking the laws of God hence the art of stoning one to death. To kill someone should always be left as a last method hence when there is a time to kill. If you look at how God as taken people lives and sent million to he death he has always gven chances and warning before he sent them to ther doom. Hence when their is a time to ill. Murdring a sin. The actual action to kill really isnt.

Lol, no, thats something the church added in so they could make people afraid not to beleive, so they could control people back when the church was powerful.

Like i said, the day jesus sayd "He did what?! Stone the basttard!" is the day all christains are damned

You obviously know. He clearly stated when village people in Juresulem was about to stone a female for adultry. He told them to cast the first stone if there was one without sin. Teaching forgiveness. If there was one without sin the lady would have surely died. Obviously you dont know much about the bible Evil Angel. And you should really stop talking about it because other people might find it offesnvie. Specially since your making false claims aginst the church saying that is a lie to scare people when there are actually thousands upon thousands of documents proving these events in the bible and the ones that surrounded jesus founded by professors, doctors, scientist, arch. , and just about every educational feild. Which all have more credibility. Read more than your basic ten commanments and going to church just to look at the cute guy in the second row before you start commenting on actualy facts trying to disprove them thank you. Now I can say that you obviously dont know shit since you tried to prove a fact wrong on something you obviously have no idea about.

Yes akuma punishes for sins but it has also been said if someone of pure of heart that has sins, the technique would have no effect on them.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Obviously you dont know much about the bible Evil Angel

I am, Evil Angel. Of course i don't know much about the bible ermm

I assume you failed history epically. It's pretty common knowledge alot of the things in the bible were throw in by the church to control.

I laugh at the idea you're debating that an assassin of sorts, has no sins. You are clearly too absorbed into the game to think clearly about what it is you're truly

Its foolish to say Ryu has never committed a sin in his life, hell ive committed sins, and im just a regular teen goin to skool, Ryu is a freakin assassin

w8 a min, define a sin please and where you definition comes from, then add it up to Ryu's religion and actions

furthermore, take into account hows Akuma going to get within 5 feet of Ryu...lawls unless Ryu attacks and destroys him at close range

Originally posted by Burning thought
w8 a min, define a sin please and where you definition comes from, then add it up to Ryu's religion and actions

furthermore, take into account hows Akuma going to get within 5 feet of Ryu...lawls unless Ryu attacks and destroys him at close range

Sin is doing something bad. Something you shouldn't.

Now, where i'm from, Killing is bad, excessive force.


Ryu's belief's ? That is irrelevent,

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Sin is doing something bad. Something you shouldn't.

Now, where i'm from, Killing is bad, excessive force.


Ryu's belief's ? That is irrelevent,


where your from, exactley

Ryu's belief is irrelevent? not really, if he does not belive in Christianity, then the sins of Christianity are irrelevent, since then his sins are defined by everyone else, if he does not belive any of it however, then he is not shackled by it

the whole move is irrelevent since its not like Akuma is going to use it

Originally posted by Burning thought
where your from, exactley

Ryu's belief is irrelevent? not really, if he does not belive in Christianity, then the sins of Christianity are irrelevent, since then his sins are defined by everyone else, if he does not belive any of it however, then he is not shackled by it

the whole move is irrelevent since its not like Akuma is going to use it None of your business

By Definition, sins are entirely rellevent. Just because you don't see it as it as a sin, doesn't mean it is. Lets take Hitler for example.... need i continue?

Originally posted by EvilAngel
None of your business

By Definition, sins are entirely rellevent. Just because you don't see it as it as a sin, doesn't mean it is. Lets take Hitler for example.... need i continue?

wtf, misread ftw

then that just depends on who is doing what, a sin is tied to morale values, why should Ryu's morale values be taken as a sin? hitler and a lot of the Germans thought what tehy were doing was correct and purification, in their eyes it was not a sin, it was a purge, exactley my point, glad you brought him up...its completly in eyes of another

Sin is usually a religious term, the religious rules, it can also be moral however, which is my argument above, the morales a being or an entire race of peoples are their own

Originally posted by Burning thought
wtf, misread ftw

then that just depends on who is doing what, a sin is tied to morale values, why should Ryu's morale values be taken as a sin? hitler and a lot of the Germans thought what tehy were doing was correct and purification, in their eyes it was not a sin, it was a purge, exactley my point, glad you brought him up...its completly in eyes of another

Sin is usually a religious term, the religious rules, it can also be moral however, which is my argument above, the morales a being or an entire race of peoples are their own

Well then it would be sin is the eyes of Akuma, it's his ability. So has Ryu commited sins in the eyes of Akuma... umm, yes most likely.

Do't turn this all philosophical to avoid the point this technique can and will work on Ryu, Period.

why would it work if in his world sin is looked on completly diffrent or actions are not looked on as sin, just because Akuma things he has sinned does not mean he has

but its all irrelevent, as if Akuma is going to touch any of them

Originally posted by Burning thought
why would it work if in his world sin is looked on completly diffrent or actions are not looked on as sin, just because Akuma things he has sinned does not mean he has

but its all irrelevent, as if Akuma is going to touch any of them

Yes of course, an experience fighter who has be training since he was like 5 isn't gonig to land a hit on a ninja... oh wait, that;s kinda screwed up logic you got there

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Yes of course, an experience fighter who has be training since he was like 5 isn't gonig to land a hit on a ninja... oh wait, that;s kinda screwed up logic you got there

no you miss the point, Ryu is unlikely to go melee with Akuma unless Akuma was already incapacitated

Originally posted by Burning thought
no you miss the point, Ryu is unlikely to go melee with Akuma unless Akuma was already incapacitated

Akuma himself has several powerful ranged attacks....

"shrug"

Everytime i see Orochi i keep thinking Orochimaru

But SGS clearly states if someone has a pure spirit then the move will have no effect on them. Ryu Hayabusa has a pure spirit and wont be effected by it. Thats what the move description says. So it wont work on Ryu. Maybe one of the other but not ryu

Originally posted by Csdabest
But SGS clearly states if someone has a pure spirit then the move will have no effect on them. Ryu Hayabusa has a pure spirit and wont be effected by it. Thats what the move description says. So it wont work on Ryu. Maybe one of the other but not ryu

I thought it said it punishes the targeet for their sins that they had commited ?

Everyone is born with sin. But the only way to avoid it cannicly is to dodge or Pure of heart and spirit. All of which Ryu is capable of.

Originally posted by Csdabest
You do realize. That that Ryu hayabusa has shown his own very powerful form of the Hado fire blast. Which seems like it takes less time to charge. Ryubusa has Spirit Energy. Ryubusa has the True Dragon Sword which unlike the Masamune has spirital powers that are unfanthonamable. It the Masamunes weilder. Not the Masamune. It hasnt shown to have any powers wat so ever. ......but that is all not good enough against these powerhouses....

Yeah and by power houses you mean Ryu Hayabusa and Raziel....Lu bu should be able to hold his own aginst akuma for awhile until he recieves help from Ryu or Raziel.

but my final opinion is


Team 2 82%

Originally posted by Csdabest
Also i beleive sephiroth didnt hold Holy back with TK. An exploding the party is only assumptions. He didnt so it cant be given. But he deos have good focus.

No, he held Holy with his willpower. But his willpower can do the same as TK. Arguing if what he did was "TK" or "willpower", is nothing more than arguing semantics. They are the same thing(in FFVII's universe).

And "exploding the party" is a good possibility. Holy can travel across continents and kill everything on the planet, in seconds. It's obvious you need a GREAT power to hold it back. Now, imagine if Sephiroth used this same power to crush the party? Or to crush Ryu, Lu Bu and Raziel? They would all die. I mean, you cannot compare them with Holy!

Considering Holy's power, and what Sephiroth's mental power was doing with it, his TK/willpower/mental strength/whatever is INSANE. That's much above anything Ryu, Lu Bu and Raziel ever did.

Um that doesnt prove he would make someone explode. A bullet proof vest has the ability to stop a bullet. That doesn tmake the bullet proof vest able to kill another person. I could have sworn sephiroth was using the Lifestream to stop Holy. I might have to replay. Thing is sephiroth stoping holy can really only beaccess to that situation since Sephiroth didnt have the will power to stop him from getting cut up by Cloud. If his will could stop such things they would have had cloud have pis like haveing a anti sephiroth ray or somehting.

but yeah. my opinion still stands...and i wont look at this thread past this point.

No, it all Sephiroths willpower that had supressed Holy

From the novel

"The Holy she had summoned was being suppressed"

From the Ultimania Omega

"Holy's movement was being held back by the wicked will of Sephiroth"

The power of Sephiroths will/TK/wuteveruwannacallit is capable of doing that to a such a powerful force.

Originally posted by Csdabest

but my final opinion is


Team 2 82%
Sorry but seriously, total Fanboy

I mean come on, you even admitted Ryu would lose to Chaos Vincent and Chaos is weaker then Sephiroth, team 2 loses, a team-wide TK from Sephiroth would really mess them up.

Originally posted by Csdabest
But SGS clearly states if someone has a pure spirit then the move will have no effect on them. Ryu Hayabusa has a pure spirit and wont be effected by it. Thats what the move description says. So it wont work on Ryu. Maybe one of the other but not ryu

Guy's, whether you sin or do not sin is irrelvant. The only way to esacpe SGS is by attaining a certain state of mind during the attack. The attack is not soley determined on your Karma/Sin.


Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Do you really think that was an intentional murder? lol

Right, because we all know that Hayabusa did not see the other train. Even though he jumped ship right before impact?

nah, an invisible raziel just smokes them one by one....for giggles


also about all this holy rubbish, just because its powerful does not neccerily make it heavey or difficult to holy back with a certain power, being power does not equel being difficult to hold neccerily, a nuclear missle can blow up cities, does that mean the small nuclear missle lunaching system is straining under its power..nopes

Originally posted by Burning thought
nah, an invisible raziel just smokes them one by one....for giggles


also about all this holy rubbish, just because its powerful does not neccerily make it heavey or difficult to holy back with a certain power, being power does not equel being difficult to hold neccerily, a nuclear missle can blow up cities, does that mean the small nuclear missle lunaching system is straining under its power..nopes

You're comparing a dormant power to a wake one.

The Nuclear bomb isn't trying to detonate.

Holy had been called as was trying to do what it was made for.


Maybe you're right but it's hard for me to think of a worse example

well still, its basically the point, nobody can prove Holys power is what would make it difficult for Sephiroth to stop, your simply judging that because holy is powerful, it must be a great feat to hold it, but thats not always true, and its assumptions from fans who want to push Sephiroth beyond what he is

Common sense tells you if it has enough force to destroy planet and travel the world in seconds, containing it with TK is not an easy thing to do, unless your an anti-sephiroth and try to make sephiroth seem weak with whatever u can think of.

nope, power does not neccerily= hard to control or tame, it could be not a feat at all easily, especially since Sephiroth is really the only one at the time with powers of Will who would want to stop Holy, we dont know how difficult the thing would be to stop, hell it could be nothing, its only energy afterall, powerful but only energy, not a solid matter object that could be heavier, even if it is powerful

speculation is all that tells you that Holy is both difficult to hold or if its power level has any influnce on this difficulty

Originally posted by Burning thought
speculation is all that tells you that Holy is both difficult to hold or if its power level has any influnce on this difficulty

speculation is all that tells you it's easy to hold/control

There is more evidence to suggest it's hard to though

Give me an example of "power does not neccerily= hard to control or tame"? No, normal non-bias ppl would tell you a force powerful enough to destroy the world and travel continents in seconds would be hard to TK, usually if its something so powerful its usually powerful enough to break through TK

Originally posted by Terryc250
Give me an example of "power does not neccerily= hard to control or tame"? No, normal non-bias ppl would tell you a force powerful enough to destroy the world and travel continents in seconds would be hard to TK, usually if its something so powerful its usually powerful enough to break through TK

power does not have to be hard to control, never at all, common sense tells you that power does not equel weight on a TK, electricty for example as a whole has power within it to kill, yet we control it and move it through tiny wires, a damn can hold off enormous amounts of water, its just a thick lump of concrete but its holding something that could devastate whole towns into rubble, look at lightning, we can control it through coils, the things bolt is as hot as the surface of the sun, infact the bolt itself is proof that power held in certain forms can be less devastating, all sephiroth is doing is holding this power like a gun is holding within it the bullet, a virus can be contained in tiny glass tubes, virus' that can kill millions, all power

well first, your mistaken, willpower is what sephiroth is using, sorry but from the creators, no TK is menstioned at all and afaik, maybe not in the whole of FF7, also show me an instance when something powerful enough breaks through TK physically ime just curios, not that its relevent