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In my opinion it goes to Gray Fox. I Think he's stronger, faster, and cooler than MC. Master Chief is wielding any 2 weapons a replier may wish, and Gray fox has his suit and sword.

Is Gray Fox the Metal Gear Solid guy?

If so, I give it to Master Chief. Does Master Chief get items on the side, or simply two weapons?

Gray Fox is the metal Gear Solid Guy. He's the one that can hold up the Leg of Metal Gear Rex, Which we'll assume is a lot heavier than anything MC has even consider flipping, and we'll give MC all the Grenades and specials he wants. Gray Fox is also incredibly resistant to anything but unarmed attacks.

Alright, I want to give Master Chief following (But this is just me):


(All limited by game ammo and carriage)
Energy Sword
Particle Beam Rifle
*Grenades
Regenerator
Positional Shield Generator
Banshee


Now it is just to lean back and enjoy the slaugther.

How do you expect MC to even SEE Fox?

Except for the particule beam rifle wouldn't damage Gray Fox, same with grenades, and MC prolly isn't fast enough to hit him with the sword.

Originally posted by Tenfrente
How do you expect MC to even SEE Fox?

What? You expect him to one-shot Master Chief? He will come out, sooner or later.

Originally posted by rader
Except for the particule beam rifle wouldn't damage Gray Fox, same with grenades, and MC prolly isn't fast enough to hit him with the sword.

In that case, switch the beam rifle for Gravity Hammer.

Is Gray Fox fast as the wind and as agile as.. for example Karai? Because seriously, he needs to be VERY quick in order for Master Chief to not keep up.

He's invisible. -.-
And yes, he's quick. He has a very powerful sword, too.

The Grav hammer is the single slowest thing in existence. If Gray Fox couldn't dodge it, than I'd prolly start cutting... OMG you sig says Beeci... I'm so confused... even more now.

Originally posted by Tenfrente
He's invisible. -.-
And yes, he's quick. He has a very powerful sword, too.

So is/does Master Chief.

Also, Master Chief has quite the radar. He most likely would sense Snake before the moment of impact.

Originally posted by rader
The Grav hammer is the single slowest thing in existence. If Gray Fox couldn't dodge it, than I'd prolly start cutting... OMG you sig says Beeci... I'm so confused... even more now.

I guess you did not see the scene where Tatauros (S?) pulled Guility Sparks to himself. With the help of the hammer, Master Chief could drain Gray Fox's sword. The hammer is not slow, either. Gameplay possibly, but that is for game balance. Master Chief can lift tons, so out-of-game Master Chief would swing it like a bat.


I know it does I have wanted to change it, but got lazy

Lol I noticed Beeci too. Do you mean Karai from TMNT? That's the only one I can think of.

The one and only. God, she is kickass

Fox prolly isn't THAT fast, but you can't really tell ingame cos he's invisible lol.
I'd say Fox's chukuto is more powerful than MC's beam sword, tbh.

What we do know of the Energy Sword, is that it penetrates the shield, armor and instantly kills the spartan that has fallen miles from the sky and made meteoric impact to the ground without a scratch. The very same spartan that was hit by a falling warthog and did not even become pummeled or hurt.

Yes. The same Spartan who need multiple hits to kill a human, yet can flip the elephant. who dies if you fall off a cliff, but can survive any fall.

Multiple hits? The same spartan that kills all but hunters and 'named' ones with one hit (IN GAME). There is more to Master Chief than game mechanics.

but alas this is a game 'versus' forum

Master Chief still has set abilities, strengths and feats trough canon. If we went with game mechanics alone, Archimonde would be the undefeated champion of KMC.

I suppose you won that arguement... Have you Played MGS1?

I have glanced.

Ahh. See if you can't find the ending fight with MG Rex and the Gray Fox

Fox chops John into pieces in no time.

Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
Fox chops John into pieces in no time.

And you are basing this on....?

The fact Fox is much faster, stronger and more agile than MC?

Stronger? You consider him STRONGER?

Master Chief is: Better trained, stronger, about as fast as Gray Fox, more endurant, has better equipment, is smarter, larger, has greater stamina AND he get the weapons of his choice. He ALSO gets his special equipment, which includes regenerator and shield generator. He also has full grenade stock.

Um...the best strength feat for Chief is flipping a tank.
Fox held up MG Rex's leg.
He's way stronger.

He held up a leg.

Wow. That's.. that's something.

When the leg belongs to a massive multi-ton metal mech, it is.

Not really, considering Master Chief flips over ENTIRE multi-ton machine's on a regular basis, not just apart of one.

Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
Um...the best strength feat for Chief is flipping a tank.
Fox held up MG Rex's leg.
He's way stronger.

Out of all the things I pointed out, Gray Fox is a tiny bit stronger? Even though I would disagree, I can go with that. MC still has the better cards up his sleeve.

He flips over simple tanks, not giant story tall mechs.

This has been done before..., ages ago.

I think Fox won it due to better ingame feats... I could have given MC the win here, if I hadn't seen the cg movie of him Running a full 10mph for his life after killing the Prophet of Regret... I beleive this debunks his speed feat most highly.

Strength and speed are Fox's by leagues, there is no way MC could hold up a Scarabs leg from unerneath it... and Fox chopping down a full squad of Genome Soldiers in the infamous "Death Corridoor" gives thim the speed edge.

BTW, Why wasn't Grey Fox given his Energy Cannon?

because he doesnt need it

True, MC gets raped by Frank here.

Fox wins. stealth and speed are all he really needs

Master Chief, with little to no trouble. His armor is stronger and shielded, and he had strength around the level of Gray Fox just from the gentic experiments, when you add in MJOLNIR GF would be curbstomped.

Grey Fox has one thing MC does not though: optic camoflauge

Master Chief kills invisible enemies ten thousand times throughout the games.

it takes MG REX a fairly long time to kill Fox, even after REX steps on him he is still alive, barely, but alive. i think MC would at the least have a hell of a time just getting through his exoskeleton

Here is a link to a video of when Grey Fox holds up MG REX's leg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f98qb3spbk4

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Master Chief, with little to no trouble. His armor is stronger and shielded, and he had strength around the level of Gray Fox just from the gentic experiments, when you add in MJOLNIR GF would be curbstomped.
Fox is a bullet timer going by the games, while MC can only claim that from the novels.
I'm so sure that emptying an AR at him is going to work.

ok lets look at what they both have and what they both are capable of.

mc: overshield, titanium armor, an arsanal of weapons (available), good aim good fighter, increadible strength, and i cant think of anything else.

gf: an exoskeletin, cybornetic implants, high frequency sword (makes it realy realy hot), is so fast he can diflect bullets with his sword, possibly even stonger than mc, can turn invisible, has a plasma canon.


ok with that what would happen is mc would know where gf is cuz of the radar but even so how do you shoot something that you can barely see and it moves that fast, then gf will come up hit his shield, then notising its strength retreats, then shoots him a couple times with his plasma canon until his shield is down then cuts his head off, but if mc had the bubble shield thing available gf would just go in and just keep hiting him while dodging all the bullets mc shoots at him untill the shield is gone and then finnish him off (also gf was almost as fast as he is in mgs before he became a cyborg)

Why are you giving Master Chief the overshield when OP doesn't state that?

Chief sees bullets in slow motion, so I doubt he won't be able to see GF. I think it is safe to assume Chief would stop firing bullets when he realizes Fox is deflecting them. What happens if Chief has an energy sword available to him?

Its not so cyrstal clear.

if mc can see bulets in slow motion why does he need his energy shield, i think you just misunderstood a cut scene, and even if he had the energy shield there is no way he could hit grey fox, he is just way to fast for mc, and if you think otherwise you dont know much about grey fox, and dont argue with me about that there is no way to prove it and it will just be anoying

even if he had the energy "sword"*

Originally posted by niduin
if mc can see bulets in slow motion why does he need his energy shield, i think you just misunderstood a cut scene, and even if he had the energy shield there is no way he could hit grey fox, he is just way to fast for mc, and if you think otherwise you dont know much about grey fox, and dont argue with me about that there is no way to prove it and it will just be anoying

Wow, you're 99999% absolutely wrong in every single way here.

The novels state that he sees bullets in slow motion,not some cutscene. He wears an energy shield because it= added protection, duh. If you have an extra defense why not use it even if you don't need it? And he fought for years without it anyway.

Grey Fox has never done anything to make himself faster then the Chief. Ever. That's just a fact.

The end.

omg you really dont know anything about gf, first off he could deflect bullets before he was known as grey fox then he was kept druged for 2 years while they did tests on him increasing his speed and reaction time and strength, by making him a cyborg, they essentialy made the perfect soldier more perfect, there is no way in hell mc is faster than him so by saying that he has never done anything to make himself faster than mc is just stupid, first off he was probably faster to begin with and then was improved dramaticly. if mc can diflect bullets why doesnt he, i mean you all say he is as fast as gf but gf was being shot at at point blank rang with an m4 and deflecting every single bullet and it looked like he was standing still, if mc was that fast then he would never be hit by anything

The perfect soldier that gets stalemated by Big Boss and utterly pawned by Solid Snake.

Just sayin'.

And as for Master Chief deflecting bullets...why would he dodge something that is harmless to him? Exactly.

are you kidding its not harmless to him, if his shield goes down then he's dead, and if his shield goes down then he should start dodging, but he doesnt so that logic is gone. and as for snake and big boss, well i dont want to get into that to much but its true that both of them deffeted him, but that just because big boss was the perfect soldier and snake was his clone, but thats a different topic

this goes to grey fox. he's too dam fast for chief

chief sees bullets in slow mo
that puts him up to and probably faster than GF..

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Grey Fox has never done anything to make himself faster then the Chief. Ever. That's just a fact. Other than actually effortlessly blocking and deflecting bullets? Something MC to my knowledge has never done?

and Gray fox held Rex at bay from crushing him did he not?

That would make him stronger than MC as well.

If the Chief "Percieves bullets in slow motion", then why would that even matetr? He doesn't have a sword, of course he wouldn't deflect anything. ... what's he going to deflect them with? His dick? We're talking about a pale white guy with a decreased sex drive not Samuel L. mutha ****in Jackson!

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
If the Chief "Percieves bullets in slow motion", then why would that even matetr? He doesn't have a sword, of course he wouldn't deflect anything. ... what's he going to deflect them with? His dick? We're talking about a pale white guy with a decreased sex drive not Samuel L. mutha ****in Jackson! The slow-mo bullets thing implies to me that MC is bullety time or a little faster in terms of reaction,

GF deflects bullet after bullet from machine-guns and the like in battle...Yet still loses a fist-fight with Snake.

why does MC need to block bullets? why even compare that? He has an energy shield.



A little faster?

Indeed.

And why can Grwy Fox's swords even harm the Chief again? His armor can't be penetrated by bullets and wasn't even scratched after falling from the atmosphere.

the same reson any weapon in halo can damage him, it wont in one hit but it will after a few, and his armor after the shield isnt strong enough to stop his sword, his sword is super heated so it can cut thru virtualany any metal depending on its thickness, so after the shield is gone there goes mc head or arm or whatever he wants the shield is mc only advantage to gf and it isnt unbreakable so mc would lose

Exactly, weapons in HALO. which is years ahead of metal gear's timeline.

as final blaxicon has stated. MC survived atmospheric re-entry and hitting the earth with great force. a super heated sword hitting chief is the same as a warm butter knife hitting a brick wall.



LOL NO. please.do.not.use.gameplay.as.a.argument

if the armor could survive falling from orbit then slamming into the earth. then MC can take more then any thing GF dishes out. the early prototypes had no sheilds and could survive multiple PLASMA rounds.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Indeed.

And why can Grwy Fox's swords even harm the Chief again? His armor can't be penetrated by bullets and wasn't even scratched after falling from the atmosphere. Because an Elite can physically harm him, and Raiden's much stronger than Master Chief or an Elite, and his strikes are much faster, and his sword is a much better melee weapon than any in Halo short of the Energy Sword or Gravity Hammer.

Raiden huh?

And why are you even bringing up other non-melee weapons to compare the HF blade, rly?

how is raiden stronger then MC?

Raiden isn't even in this matchup.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Raiden isn't even in this matchup.

Exactly.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Because an Elite can physically harm him, and Raiden's much stronger than Master Chief or an Elite, and his strikes are much faster, and his sword is a much better melee weapon than any in Halo short of the Energy Sword or Gravity Hammer.

Since when? Elites are physically stronger or at the ;east equal to SPARTAN's... so I don't understand your point. And I'd like to see this lifting of a metal gear before I go any further.

its true go to you tube and look up grey fox death or something like that and you will see metal gear going to step on snake and gf jump in and stop it, but i think he meant gf not raiden, raiden basicly became the new gf, and i agree that gf is stronger than both spartains and elites, but there arent any set guidlines for how stron gf is as far as i know so there really is no way of knowing, but im going to research taht and get back with you

Originally posted by niduin
its true go to you tube and look up grey fox death or something like that and you will see metal gear going to step on snake and gf jump in and stop it, but i think he meant gf not raiden, raiden basicly became the new gf, and i agree that gf is stronger than both spartains and elites, but there arent any set guidlines for how stron gf is as far as i know so there really is no way of knowing, but im going to research taht and get back with you

he stopped it yes but he was struggling, and liquid was not applying full force, once he did GF was forced to move. and blaxicon said the word "lift" which he did not do.

chief can effortlessly flip 66 ton tanks, and this probably isn't his limit either. his strength is supported by the books. your argument fails horribly.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Since when? Elites are physically stronger or at the ;east equal to SPARTAN's... so I don't understand your point. And I'd like to see this lifting of a metal gear before I go any further. Because he can hold back Metal Gear REX, if only temporarily, and Metal Gear REX is huge, weighing in at at least 200 tons, probably more.

I'll try to find the vid.

'kaykay. Did you get me anything for christmas?

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
he stopped it yes but he was struggling, and liquid was not applying full force, once he did GF was forced to move. and blaxicon said the word "lift" which he did not do.

chief can effortlessly flip 66 ton tanks, and this probably isn't his limit either. his strength is supported by the books. your argument fails horribly.

ok first of all the only reson he went to stop the metal gear was to protect snake and snake was out of the way when he went for the next stomp so there was no reson for him to be there, so we dont know if he could have stoped the second, secondly the first stop was most of the weight it doesnt matter if he put all he could into it its still a huge amount of weight. and pluss metal gear rex is way more than 66 tons, i mean a normal tank in our military is about 50 tons and rex is way bigger than any tank we have, the leg alone must be 70 tons, and also he wasnt strugling that much, he was calm enought to make some remarks to snake with no strungle, but that isnt even the argument the argument is, can grey fox damage mc after the shield is down, and i say HELL YES ok the armor might be able to withstand a re-entry or whatever but you are saying blunt forces this is a super sharp super heated blade made to cut thru anything of couse he can hit master cheif might take some extra force but he could do it

yes he was there's so much strain in his voice it's impossible to miss.



yea...i know? how is that even relevant...?





yes we do. if he's as strong as you claim. why didn't he just tip the thing over by throwing it off balance? he moved. if he knew he could stop it he would've done so.



um the first time he wasn't stomping...he was walking toward snake to stomp on him...



you really don't understand do you? let me try to explain.

atmospheric re-entry isn't a "blunt" force. the dangers of atmospheric re-entry is aerodynamic heating. which is the passing of a object through fluid such as air producing heat over the solid body. chief was entering the atmosphere at speed comparable to a meteorite(over mach 20 if i'm correct) which could easily destroy a shuttle without special protection and was up seconds later ready to fight . and yet you think a sword is going to pierce his armor? doubt it.

Cant spartans run like 7 kilometers in 2secs with hurt ankles
cant spartans flip 40ton tanks with ease

To be honest we don't know how long it took for Johnson to find Master Chief and unlock his armor. Also we have no idea if he was knocked out. What we do know is that once the marine unlocked his armor the Chief was back on his feet and kicking covenant ass.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42

atmospheric re-entry isn't a "blunt" force. the dangers of atmospheric re-entry is aerodynamic heating. which is the passing of a object through fluid such as air producing heat over the solid body. chief was entering the atmosphere at speed comparable to a meteorite(over mach 20 if i'm correct) which could easily destroy a shuttle without special protection and was up seconds later ready to fight . and yet you think a sword is going to pierce his armor? doubt it.

ok im not an idiot i know that its not just blunt force i just didnt want to get into the details, but its still a completely diferent type of damage, it isnt something that is made to cut its something with lots of heat spread over his body, if that was consentrated to oh i dont know a rasor sharp blade it would cut it open, but of cours your just goind to say something stupid like oh he can see bullets so he can just dodge his atacks or thats totaly wrong cuz his armor stoped the sun from exploding you arent thinking about both there abuilitys fully, this is just a bunch of halo fans saying that mc could defete anyone hell we should see what you think about him vs goku whatever ive put my 2 cents in and im done ive come to the conclusion that i cant change your mind so im not going to try anymore

fair enough.





IT IS HOTTER THEN THE SWORD. look up aerodynamic heating.
you have done absolutely nothing to prove the sword's heat is hotter then heat friction levels at mach 20+

oh and your argument still fails.



prove it. prove the damn sword can cut his armor.the same armor that can block plasma and bullets. quit fanboying and PROVE IT.






it's logic. if he see's them in slow motion then MC has immense reaction time speed and reflexes. stop being dense and accept it.



you are just a biased angst filled fanboy pissed about the fact that chief's abilities are beyond GF's. deal with it and respect opinions.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42


IT IS HOTTER THEN THE SWORD. look up aerodynamic heating.
you have done absolutely nothing to prove the sword's heat is hotter then heat friction levels at mach 20+

you dont know that its hotter than the sword, just because heat from reentry is realy realy hot doesnt mean that nothing on earth can reach that that heat


Originally posted by sigma-ct42


prove it. prove the damn sword can cut his armor.the same armor that can block plasma and bullets. quit fanboying and PROVE IT.

how the hell do you want me to do taht this is all speculation you moron, none of the stuff we are saying is based on truth or what the aloys on mc armor are compared to gf sword, we dont know im just going by what i see, so tell me how to prove it and ill prove it

Originally posted by sigma-ct42



it's logic. if he see's them in slow motion then MC has immense reaction time speed and reflexes. stop being dense and accept it.

what i said against that wasnt meant to say that he wasnt fast or with fast reacion it was simply to say that you will come up with the same stuff over and over again even if we have something to say against it, and please dont argue with what i just said i dont want to explain it

Originally posted by sigma-ct42


you are just a biased angst filled fanboy pissed about the fact that chief's abilities are beyond GF's. deal with it and respect opinions.

i respect opinion, its just that when people make their uneducated opinions fact that pisses me off, and the fact that halo is overly popular makes everyone think mc is a god or something, and thats whats pissing me off is no one is thinking objectively, i say that his sword is designed to cut thru any aloy, you say no it cant he survived reentry, ok so what do you think would happen to the space shuttles if shot with 50 calibur armor peircing bullets? i know that doesnt prove that gf could cut it, but it does prove that just because his shield could withstand super heat doesnt mean that it could withstand an atemped to be cut with a super hot blade by a really strong aponent, and i know that i said that i was done but i think i was just in a bad mood when i said that lol so dont bring that up please.

i never said anything on earth couldn't. learn how to read.



Omg the fanboy finally gets the point of not comparing unknowns. it's a miracle. if you can't prove it then don't bring it up.



No we won't, you just haven't made any point.



Then you must be mad at yourself quite alot.



We are. you aren't. you are arguing against logic.

"dur i saw it happen on screen and gry fox look fasta den da chief so it men he ius!"



IN HIS TIMELINE. how many times do i have to say it?



1. I was arguing against your notion of: "it superheated so it pierce da chief" if chief can resist high levels of aerodynamic friction generated at speeds greater then mach 20. then GF will do nothing. unless said sword is somehow hotter then said heat levels which is unknown thus rendering that argument void.

2. you are now again misunderstanding my point. the shuttle was used as an example. i was saying aerodynamic heat friction generated at speeds greater then mach 20 is enough to destroy a shuttle without protection, chief resisted said heat. and for the record bullets will do nothing to MC.



and since it's unknown STOP BRINGING IT UP. we have no way of knowing until given insight on the sword's power.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42

Well halo contradicts the argument of heat considering plasma is pretty much a very very hot substance and has killed numerous spartans (i.e.
sam, will)

Snake owned Gray Fox, Chief owned Snake, Chief owns Gray Fox since he was defeated by a guy who Chief owned.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Snake owned Gray Fox, Chief owned Snake, Chief owns Gray Fox since he was defeated by a guy who Chief owned.
Your logic is severely flawed.

When exactly did Chief own Snake?

Originally posted by sigma-ct42


and since it's unknown STOP BRINGING IT UP. we have no way of knowing until given insight on the sword's power.

holy crap im not saying anything about the sword being powerful im saying that its sharp so it does all its pressure in a smaller area, any sword would do this, just the fact that its heated would weaken any metal even if it doesnt melt it heat weakens metal and if that happens to be wrong in this case im sorry, but a sharp object with incredible force behind it would penetrate a lot easyer than a blunt force of equal force thats a fact (not saying that the force of gf is greater than him hitting the earth), and your being a hypocrite, nothing here is a sure thing so you should not bring it up, i mean the whole mc can see bullets in slow mo should be void because we dont know if thats faster than gf, and the whole mc can flip a tank with ease and gf stopped metal gear should be stricken from the record because you cant prove either way which is stronger, and the thing about there is no way that the sword could cut his armor cuz its more advanced should be a stupid argument to because there is no way you could know that, this is all speculation from what we observe, there is NO way either of us could know for a fact which would win so we should all just stop discussing it according to your logic.

but i think we should continue discussing it

It's his strain at yelling at Snake to move.

Since when do people "strain" when they yell?

Who gives a shit whether or not he "strained?"

Master Chief would be crushed under a third of Metal Gear Rex's weight.

I'm goin' with Grey Fox. From the evidence put forward in this thread it seems olligical to pick MC.

I just watched the video.

And I call bullshit. First off, the Metal Gear is still standing on one leg, which means at least half, maybe even more, of it's weight is being put on the other leg. Second off, as you can see the leg being lifted isn't straining or moving at all, and when does shift it's weight onto the lifted foot Raiden buckles instantly, which leads me to believe that it wasn't' actually pressing down.

So at the most Raiden was only lifting a bit less than half of the MG's weight, which means that if it weighs around, say, 200 tons, he'd be lifting about 90 tons. Factor in the fact that the Chief can "effortlessly" lift 66 tons means that if he were to try with literally all of his might to the point where his voice was cracking like Raiden's, it's certainly possible that he could close the 30 ton gap. It would, literally, only take about an extra third of his strength. Going from near effortlessly to a third of your total strength isn't that outlandish.

The Rex was going to stomp on Snake, until Fox jumped in before it could and stopped the foot, and it DID apply pressure, as seen by how after stomping it the ground under Fox's feet dents in, and GF was seen to push the foot up. And GF was hardly "straining."

gAyUCsMMa0I

Also, REX weighs more than 200 tons.

Oh, and then we see GF near effortlessly dodging and deflecting bullets in a manner MC has never shown.

So do we even know how strong Chief really is? I know he can flip a tank but he does that with ease. Maybe John can also stop REX's foot.

Maybe John can also pick up the Polynesian islands and throw them to Jupiter?

Yeah, REX is alot heavier than 66 tons and was applying its own pressure, GF stopped it.

Just so we're all aware, the force required to flip a tank is not the same as to lift it over your head. Get a few friends and try to flip a car, then try to life it over your heads. .. One is much easier to do.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Since when do people "strain" when they yell?

*Scoffs*
Beats me.

nidiun. you are by far the most dense human being that has been my displeasure to converse with.





prove it?

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
nidiun. you are by far the most dense human being that has been my displeasure to converse with.

Im dence because i know that this is all speculation or because i think that heat weakens metal? be specific please, instead of just insulting someone use constructive critisism, that way i could defend myself or agree with you, i might be missing something

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Just so we're all aware, the force required to flip a tank is not the same as to lift it over your head. Get a few friends and try to flip a car, then try to life it over your heads. .. One is much easier to do.

Exelent point!

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
prove it? Because Master Chief has no strength feats to suggest he is that strong maybe?

And like I showed, he hardly "strained."

ok lets forget about the strength issue for now, what i want to know is how mc would hit someone that can diflect bullets with ease and can turn invisible? radar is out i mean just cuz you know what area he is in doesnt mean you can see them

there's also nothing that suggests he isn't either?



yeah i must've imagined all of that shaking and strain in his voice.



in order to flip, you must lift. for the record GF didn't "lift" anything. he simply help it up :/



because you've constantly ignored facts pointed out to you.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
there's also nothing that suggests he isn't either?



yeah i must've imagined all of that shaking and strain in his voice.



in order to flip, you must lift. for the record GF didn't "lift" anything. he simply help it up :/



because you've constantly ignored facts pointed out to you. 1. Only I can't prove a negative, burden of proof is on you to prove he is that strong.

2. You didn't watch the vid I posted did you?

3. In order to flip, you must lift a portion of its weight, not the whole thing. And GF did not hold it up, he stopped it and held it back.

im not ignoring facts, at least not intentionaly, like i said if im missing something tell me instead of insulting me, that way i can respond to that instead of just the insult

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
In order to flip, you must lift a portion of its weight, not the whole thing. And GF did not hold it up, he stopped it and held it back.

i was about to say the same thing, but to make sure it is understood, to stop something that falling/stepping, the fall adds weight (its called enusia) even if its not a full stomp its still a crazy amount of weight probably close to 130 tons thats saying its only a portion of the weight he is stopping, so when mc flips the tanks its probably 20 tons from its 55, and when fox stops mg, it is probably about 130 tons, you do the math

Velocity X Mass foo.

i posted that video back on the previous page.



And did GF lift a metal gear? thought so.
he was holding it's leg barely. why are we even having this debate? GF got his ass handed to him by snake.... in a fist fight of all things :/



Why are you assuming Rex's weight is 200 tons? it's never been stated. but fair enough.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
i posted that video back on the previous page.



And did GF lift a metal gear? thought so.
he was holding it's leg barely. why are we even having this debate? GF got his ass handed to him by snake.... in a fist fight of all things :/ 1. And he was not straining to the extent you are implying.

2. No. He stopped one while it was running. Which is still more impressive than any of MC's feats.

Snake(both Solid and Naked) have jobber auras whick allow them to do things clearly above their realistic limits.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
why are we even having this debate? GF got his ass handed to him by snake.... in a fist fight of all things :/

well i personaly think that snake can beet mc but thats a diff topic, but i also think that fox was going easy on snake
Originally posted by sigma-ct42
Why are you assuming Rex's weight is 200 tons? it's never been stated. but fair enough.
well thats simple its esentially a tank just it uses legs instead of wheals, and it is nuklear, oh and its at least 4 or 5 times the size of a tank, actualy more like 7or 8 that thing is huge, so its probably way more than 200 tons

it was walking. i have the game. i'm quite aware of how the scenario goes.






chief escaped an exploding ring capable of killing an entire galaxy. survived an encounter with a galaxy killing parasite. single handedly destroyed a walker that makes rex look like a house cat. came face to face with the hive mind of the flood,which was ridiculously large. survived a dropped through the atmosphere,got up ready to fight with no apparent strain. let's not even go into feats please.





you didn't answer my question. you just pointed out the obvious....



um..he made it pretty clear he was going to try and kill snake...

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
you didn't answer my question. you just pointed out the obvious....


well if its obviouse then why did you ask? and btw pointing out the obviouse is a form of an answer, you asked why i think its that heavy i told you why

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
um..he made it pretty clear he was going to try and kill snake...
well even so, you dont have to try your hardest to try and kill someone, i mean he is obviously better than snake, (well at least his physical ability's) so if he held back he would still have a good chance of killing him

That is the most ludicrous thing you've said yet....
why in the hell would he hold back if he was trying to kill an experienced highly skilled soldier like snake? who by the way took down the legendary big boss, arguably the most deadly enemy in the entire series....snake is definitely an opponent gray fox knows better then to underestimate. gray fox lost to snake in a fist fight who is weaker then him. in a fist fight with chief: a soldier who reacts at the speed of light.he destroys GF. effortlessly....



I was asking you to back up your claim of it's weight. you instead tell me you think it's 200 tons because it has legs and is twice the size of a threaded battle tank....

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
That is the most ludicrous thing you've said yet....
why in the hell would he hold back if he was trying to kill an experienced highly skilled soldier like snake? who by the way took down the legendary big boss, arguably the most deadly enemy in the entire series....snake is definitely an opponent gray fox knows better then to underestimate. gray fox lost to snake in a fist fight who is weaker then him. in a fist fight with chief: a soldier who reacts at the speed of light.he destroys GF. effortlessly....
wow, you seem to hate me or something, but i know that snake beet big boss, but to be fair he was in his 60's when he did that, and i dont really count that i mean he used a paint can and a lighter to make a flamethrower,(lame!) dont think i dont know i probably know more than you about mgs, and you probably know more about halo than me, and thats why you will never beleive me and i will never beleive you, but fox isnt underestimating snake, he knows just how powerful he is, he fought him before he has some idea of that, and he didnt REALY want to kill him, he just said that so snake would be serious, i mean if he wanted him dead why would he save him later?


Originally posted by sigma-ct42

I was asking you to back up your claim of it's weight. you instead tell me you think it's 200 tons because it has legs and is twice the size of a threaded battle tank....
well i cant back it up, all i can do is state the obvious, its obviouse that metal gear rex is at least 4-7 times bigger than a tank so it should be obviouse that its at least 4-7 times heavyer than the same tank that weighs lets say 55 tons, so thats at least 200 tons

Originally posted by sigma-ct42

chief escaped an exploding ring capable of killing an entire galaxy. survived an encounter with a galaxy killing parasite. single handedly destroyed a walker that makes rex look like a house cat. came face to face with the hive mind of the flood,which was ridiculously large. survived a dropped through the atmosphere,got up ready to fight with no apparent strain. let's not even go into feats please.

well none of those have anything to do with mc strength, he wasnt refering to amazing things he has done, i mean i once got a bullseye in darts without even looking, thats prety amazing but that doesnt mean im stronger than grey fox (that isnt true i never did that, i was just making a point)

Eneru was saying that one thing was more amazing then anything chief has ever. which i highly disagree with.
Chief saved humanity. GF held up a leg...that's...amazing....




It takes alot for me to hate.you've done nothing to invoke that feeling...yet.



My brother is a MGS fanatic. he has every single mgs game. and has read the literature, i live with him. i can safely say i know alot about mgs considering i've played it...



i don't believe you because you keep fanboying and i know better. as stated above. i've been exposed to the series. you don't believe because you want to believe GF is better. the only area GF may exceed MC in is strength,MAYBE.

deal with it.



I never said that. YOU said he was holding back.don't pin your stupid mistakes on me.



You do realize GF was somewhat insane right?




Rex isn't "bigger" it's only taller due to a pair of legs.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42

i don't believe you because you keep fanboying and i know better. as stated above. i've been exposed to the series. you don't believe because you want to believe GF is better. the only area GF may exceed MC in is strength,MAYBE.

deal with it.
i admit that i am a fanboy of mgs, but im trying to think of this resonably, and from my perspective gf is faster and stronger than chief, thats what we are discusing, none of this is set in stone so dont think im saying your wrong im just saying that thats the way i see it, mc can see bullets in slow mo, ok gf can diflect bullets with a sword from an m4 at point blank range, diflect and dodge bullets from a mounted minigun (extremely high velosity, and rounds per second) when has chief done anything like that, ok so it says that he can see them in slow mo...ok so when has he ever done anything to show that he can move fast enought to diflect them all or something to that effect?


Originally posted by sigma-ct42


You do realize GF was somewhat insane right?

ok good argument, i dont know exactly what he was thinking, but i still think that he had control of himself to an extent, but thats just what i think about the story they dont really say much about it.



QUOTE=11483377]Originally posted by sigma-ct42

Rex isn't "bigger" it's only taller due to a pair of legs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/Fallen_Blade/Metal%20Gear%20Solid/MetalGearRexX.jpg
the head alone is the size of a tank, then there is the back end wich is probably 1.5-2 tank sizes (and its not holow like a tank, thats full of munitions) then the rail gun, the radome and the legs, so yeah its a LOT bigger than a tank

The novels back up chiefs feats. in the books spartans moved so fast they could NOT be perceived by the human eye. GF CAN be perceived by the human eye. chief is FAR faster.



chief's feats are backed up by the various halo media.



1. chief see's bullets in slow motion.he reacts/moves faster then BULLETS.

2. bullets do absolutely to him. besides he.has.a.energy.shield
i'm growing tired of repeating this...




i'm glad you see my point.



point taken.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
it was walking. i have the game. i'm quite aware of how the scenario goes.






chief escaped an exploding ring capable of killing an entire galaxy. survived an encounter with a galaxy killing parasite. single handedly destroyed a walker that makes rex look like a house cat. came face to face with the hive mind of the flood,which was ridiculously large. survived a dropped through the atmosphere,got up ready to fight with no apparent strain. let's not even go into feats please. 1. It was moving much quicker than walking, and you are just grasping at straws at this point, you have no evidence to suggest MC is stronger.

2. No, Chief killed a bunch of aliens to get off the ring and keep them from activating it, which does not amount to a thing in a vs. match. MC at various points fought some parasites who have never killed a galaxy, in time they could have threatened it, and still does not amount to shit in a one on one fight. He single handedly jumped on its back and destroyed its core, REX does not have such a weak point. Destroying a scarab is no big feat, both could do it, but MC's skill, strength, and speed are superior to MC's. Came face to face with the Gravemind, yeah.......And was powerless before it. A giant plant-esque monster overpowered Chief. Not exactly a feat for Chief, rather it is a feat for Gravemind. He dropped through the atmosphere and couldn't move because his suit locked up, and can still be injured physically by Elites, who are nowhere near GF's strength level.

You are grasping at straws and avoiding the facts of this debate.

Master Chief has not proven to be as strong as Gray Fox.

He has not proven to be as fast.

He is not as skilled.

However, he is more durable.

Regardless, GF wins.

I'm avoiding facts? lol



he sees bullets in slow motion. he reacts faster then the speed of light,he moves so fast he can't be seen by the human eye. all spartans do.when has GF moved this fast exactly? never. you are being a fanboy and ignoring these facts.





How.in.the.hell.do.you.know?

their strength has never been given a limit. you again, are fanboying and assuming GF is stronger because he held up a mech's leg. until chief is given a specific limit. we'll never know. deal with it.strength is pretty irrelevant here anyway. considering chief has defeated enemies stronger then himself.





basically what i said with added emphasis.your point?



yes it does. the radome. without it the pilot is forced to open the cockpit. not to mention anti tank missiles can harm it. scarabs cannot be destroyed by such a thing.



Soooo chief is superior to himself?....



I just bursted out laughing.



This is the stupidest thing you've said.

just because one can be hurt by annother does not make them "weaker" that falls under how durable one is. not how strong one is..this ain't DBZ mate.

i'm not trying to prove he is? it's already been stated countless times chief's strength is an "unknown".arguing strength is thus pointless.believe what you want though

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
REX does not have such a weak point.

im sorry, but the makers of all the metal gears made them with a weakness so that it couldnt be used against them, i know that for a fact

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
he sees bullets in slow motion. he reacts faster then the speed of light,he moves so fast he can't be seen by the human eye. all spartans do.when has GF moved this fast exactly? never. you are being a fanboy and ignoring these facts.

well thats up for debate, in the game you go to kick him and he vanishes and at the same momen he apears behind you, but who knows?

Originally posted by sigma-ct42

their strength has never been given a limit. you again, are fanboying and assuming GF is stronger because he held up a mech's leg. until chief is given a specific limit. we'll never know. deal with it.strength is pretty irrelevant here anyway. considering chief has defeated enemies stronger then himself.
i do agree that the strength is irelevent to an extent, the only argument for the strength is that he could damage mc with the sword, and he doesnt have to be stronger than mc to do this, so irrelevent to see who is stronger

ok so, this is what ive deduced so far from what has been "agreed" apon (im using that term loosly) mc cant hurt gf with bullets, gf might be able to hurt mc with his sword if he hit him enough, but we dont know if he is fast enough to even do that, rocket launcher is out, its way to slow, the beam canon or whatever it is called, gf would notice it before it hit him, so basicly it would boil down to mc with fists, unless he has an energy sword, against gf with his sword, so the only argument right now (as far as im conserned) is who is faster, and there really is no way to know that, it hasnt been specified exactly how fast gf is, i dont know how fast mc is im just taking your word for it, but from what i saw from the game gf is probaly about the same as far as speed is conserned, so basicly it would be an epic crazy long fight that the conclusion is unknown

If i recall he was using cloaking wasn't he?



indeed. if radome on rex gets destroyed, the pilot is vulnerable.




Well i'm sure the beam rifle could likely strike GF considering rex's did it. but other then that. i agree, too much "unknown" to reach a real conclusion. i'm done.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
he reacts faster then the speed of light

What's that smell? Is bullshit cookin'?

After rereading it seems spartans have a reaction time of 20 milliseconds. which is even faster in combat. but meh.
still faster then anything GF has shown.

I'm glad you realized I wasn't talking about food.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I'm glad you realized I wasn't talking about food.

I was being sarcastic mate.

So was I. The claim that MC can react at the speed of light, let alone faster, put me in a sarcastic mood.

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
If i recall he was using cloaking wasn't he?


yes he has cloaking but its not that, its the fact that he vanishes and at the exact same time he reapears behind you ready to attack, he might have cloacked but he virtualy teleports after that

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
I'm avoiding facts? lol



he sees bullets in slow motion. he reacts faster then the speed of light,he moves so fast he can't be seen by the human eye. all spartans do.when has GF moved this fast exactly? never. you are being a fanboy and ignoring these facts.





How.in.the.hell.do.you.know?

their strength has never been given a limit. you again, are fanboying and assuming GF is stronger because he held up a mech's leg. until chief is given a specific limit. we'll never know. deal with it.strength is pretty irrelevant here anyway. considering chief has defeated enemies stronger then himself.





basically what i said with added emphasis.your point?



yes it does. the radome. without it the pilot is forced to open the cockpit. not to mention anti tank missiles can harm it. scarabs cannot be destroyed by such a thing.



Soooo chief is superior to himself?....



I just bursted out laughing.



This is the stupidest thing you've said.

just because one can be hurt by annother does not make them "weaker" that falls under how durable one is. not how strong one is..this ain't DBZ mate. 1. Yeah, you are.

2. Prove the faster than light thing. You do that and I'll concede the entire debate. Though it is probably hyperbole, considering MC has also been stated to "strike as fast as a cobra," but cobras=Lightspeed, right? As for the bullets thing, bullets have nothing on GF, who is able to effortlessly dodge and deflect bullets in a manner MC has never shown. As for the human eye thing, not a quantifiable speed feat, never has been in any sort of fiction, don't use it, not to mention GF's bullet dodging and deflecting easily puts his reflexes beyond that.

3. So you are committing a No-Limits fallacy by even attempting to argue this. Because MC has not shown any limits, should we assume he is stronger than Superman? No, same with GF. Until he gets a strength feat that is on par with GF's, he is weaker.

4. You are over-glorifying it is my point.

5. No. But they can be destroyed by a grenade or two in its easily exposable core.

6. Hm. Cute. Instead of addressing my point, you make fun of a typo despite the fact that it was apparent what I was asserting, that GF is overall superior to MC.

7. Care to prove different? Being a Spartan isn't a feat, what skill does he really show?

8. And can you inform me when I said MC being physically injured by Elites makes MC weaker? I said the Elites are weaker than GF(who if you notice was strong enough to throw his sword through REX), so logically if they can harm MC, GF could do it with less effort.

There hasn't been a moment where i have. in fact you just keep adding speculated crap claiming it to be fact.

oh like: "raiden is stronger then MC"



1.In case you can't read. i corrected that in the post above.the "the strike as fast as a cobra" statement isn't to be taken literal. it represents his speed.

2. Chief doesn't need to deflect bullets.

3.chief can react at a speed of 20 milliseconds. much faster in combat. chief can run at speeds around 65.205 MPH. fall of reach/ghosts of onyx cover this.



No it doesn't. considering bullets look slow to MC.



Have you even been paying attention? It.is.in.the.books.





I never said that. you are over glorifying the holding up of a leg.Until he is given a limit it is unknown,and whatever you say is OPINION.like i told you before: believe what you want. when you actually have proof GF is stronger come back, otherwise stop wasting my time. i want proof from official sources, not your opinion.

and as i said before: chief has killed enemies stronger then himself.




In halo 3. not the variant seen in halo 2.



I couldn't understand what you had said, don't take it so hard.



In halo 2 chief flies out with a covenant bomb in space. guides it to a covenant capital ship in the middle of a space battle and then detonates it, kicks again it sending it precisely in the ship's core and himself outward.

just to name one.how much halo media have you been exposed to exactly?



From how you wrote it, it came off that way. so my apologies.



Ummm..no. i'm asking you why you bothered to restate the same thing. what is your point?

ok you guys, dont make me turn the car around. if you talk politely you get a better reaction

Originally posted by sigma-ct42
There hasn't been a moment where i have. in fact you just keep adding speculated crap claiming it to be fact.

oh like: "raiden is stronger then MC"



1.In case you can't read. i corrected that in the post above.the "the strike as fast as a cobra" statement isn't to be taken literal. it represents his speed.

2. Chief doesn't need to deflect bullets.

3.chief can react at a speed of 20 milliseconds. much faster in combat. chief can run at speeds around 65.205 MPH. fall of reach/ghosts of onyx cover this.



No it doesn't. considering bullets look slow to MC.



Have you even been paying attention? It.is.in.the.books.





I never said that. you are over glorifying the holding up of a leg.Until he is given a limit it is unknown,and whatever you say is OPINION.like i told you before: believe what you want. when you actually have proof GF is stronger come back, otherwise stop wasting my time. i want proof from official sources, not your opinion.

and as i said before: chief has killed enemies stronger then himself.




In halo 3. not the variant seen in halo 2.



I couldn't understand what you had said, don't take it so hard.



In halo 2 chief flies out with a covenant bomb in space. guides it to a covenant capital ship in the middle of a space battle and then detonates it, kicks again it sending it precisely in the ship's core and himself outward.

just to name one.how much halo media have you been exposed to exactly?



From how you wrote it, it came off that way. so my apologies.



Ummm..no. i'm asking you why you bothered to restate the same thing. what is your point? 1. By feats Raiden is much stronger than MC.

2. 1. Well 20 millisecond reaction-time is nowhere near as fast as you think it is, in less than 2 milliseconds light can travel 300 KM in a vacuum.

2.2. But we assume he can do it in the same manner GF can do, right?

2.3. Gray Fox was being fired at by what would be considered a large turret by REX. Those type of guns typically fire bullets at a speed around 1,200-1,500 meters per second. Gray Fox was at best 30 meters away. That is 40 times less than the speed the bullet can go in a second if we are using the lower of the two numbers, so to dodge a single bullet, GF would have to be reacting about 25 milliseconds, and he was not dodging single bullets, he was dodging rapid machine-gun fire, and this is assuming they were going the speed of the lower number, so Raiden is at least as fast as Master Chief in reflex, and is much faster in movement.

3. True, MC can see bullets in slow motion, but he has not shown the same effortless machine-gun dodging speed of GF.

4. I don't care where it is, it is not quantifiable.

5. I showed you a feat of GF that MC has never matched. I don't have to prove your character, until MC has a feat that says otherwise, he must be assumed to be weaker.

6. In Halo 2 you just had to jump on its back and go to the control room.

7. I'll take it as hard as I want.

8. Which does not mean a thing in one-on-one combat.

Enough to know that MC has been shown to flip tanks of roughly 66 tons, that he can run half a kilometer in I think 17 seconds with a broken ankle, that he fell from lower orbit and was physically fine, his suit was just locked up, and that like all Spartans he was trained in extensive Military un-armed and armed combat.

To be fair, atmospheric resistance would lower chief to terminal velocity durign the fall, and I'm assuming his suit is heat resistant.

sorry not to change the subject or anything, but did any of you see the lakers game last night?

I heard GF won 90 - 8. =P

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
To be fair, atmospheric resistance would lower chief to terminal velocity durign the fall, and I'm assuming his suit is heat resistant. Well even so, that is a feat of durability GF has not shown to match.

I only mentioned it because the feat gets overhyped.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I only mentioned it because the feat gets overhyped.

How is it overhyped?

At all?

Because, the feat is treated as though he has collided with the ground while propelled by rockets.

He's a thousand pound object that fell at terminal velocity from the upper stratosphere.

... That is THOUSANDS of pounds of force on impact.

Master Chief saved the Universe three times over, so the win goes to him.

Also, the makers of Halo have made enough money to buy Switzerland, so they could buy the damn title if they wanted.

Also, Chief is more bad ass than Gray Fox.

Oh, and Metal Gear sucks overall as a game. As a movie, it would be awesome, but as game. It's pretty much a turd sandwich thrown at you by your drunken mom, as your dad storms out of the trailer. That's my impression of it at least.

Originally posted by Shaggs
Master Chief saved the Universe three times over, so the win goes to him.

Also, the makers of Halo have made enough money to buy Switzerland, so they could buy the damn title if they wanted.

Also, Chief is more bad ass than Gray Fox.

Oh, and Metal Gear sucks overall as a game. As a movie, it would be awesome, but as game. It's pretty much a turd sandwich thrown at you by your drunken mom, as your dad storms out of the trailer. That's my impression of it at least.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/8/83/Facepalm2.jpg

^LOL hehe.

Oh, and before you try and say anything, I don't think Halo is that good of a game either. It's just got a slightly smaller turd tucked into the sandwich.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
He's a thousand pound object that fell at terminal velocity from the upper stratosphere.

... That is THOUSANDS of pounds of force on impact.

You are correct, but it's hyped as though he fell with a tank landing on top of him, then exploding, then he got hit by a bus full of fat people. (I exagerate)

Most people just don't realise he'd be reduced to terminal velocity, and think he landed like some kind of earth busting meteor. Still a good feat, not sayin otherwise. Just overhyped.

Grey Fox via decaptation in the 3rd round.

wow i'm kinda proud of this thread. its still on the first page after a year.

I won t3h debate! dur

Originally posted by rader
wow i'm kinda proud of this thread. its still on the first page after a year. ????? are you blind? there are 8 pages

First page of the forum he meant.

ah ic, thanks for clearifying that