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For this thread, all video-game characters knows how chess works, rules and such.


Kil'Jaeden will start a game of chess versus Archimonde and once he beats Archimonde, all video-game characters line up to battle with minds.

Who can beat Kil'Jaeden in a strategical game such as chess? Mewtwo is the only vide-game character not allowed, since he will be the judge. He will make sure that mind-reading, mental powers and such does not take place between the two combatants

(In other words, no mindreading)




Who can beat Kil'Jaeden in a game, fair and square (Do note that the chess is not the actual core of this. I want to know What video-game character is smarter than Kil'Jaeden?)

the Lich King

Originally posted by Becci
For this thread, all video-game characters knows how chess works, rules and such.


Kil'Jaeden will start a game of chess versus Archimonde and once he beats Archimonde, all video-game characters line up to battle with minds.

Who can beat Kil'Jaeden in a strategical game such as chess? Mewtwo is the only vide-game character not allowed, since he will be the judge. He will make sure that mind-reading, mental powers and such does not take place between the two combatants

(In other words, no mindreading)




Who can beat Kil'Jaeden in a game, fair and square (Do note that the chess is not the actual core of this. I want to know What video-game character is smarter than Kil'Jaeden?)

Shikamaru... oh wait..... scratch that

Umm, maybe hmm, i dunno, i don't even think Sargeras is as smart or sunning as Killy

I would start with excluding all Warcraft characters. I do have my belief that Kil'Jaeden is THE mind of Warcraft

hmm smarter than killy, Norgannon or Aman'Thul should be able to win

ime guessing the chess as you said is not the core so the fact that someones fingers may be too large to touch the pieces is excluded?

Tyrael is pretty smart, id give him a cookie

Kain perhaps, hes a tactition and master strategist and Elder God is god knowns how long and practically omncient to a degree

lich King

Kane from Command and conquer series, hes only human (afaik, hes a bit weird) but he is the master strategist behind brotherhood of Nod so he may be able to beat the chess even if hes not overall smarter than Killy

other than that i cant think

Hmm, in terms of smarts, i honest can't even think of a character that might be as smart.

Only thing that comes to mind, would be some kinda super computer. But i don't know many/any games with really smart computers

maybe Kos-mos? and other beings from Xenosaga

Possibly, that's IMO of the only character you're going to find who would be more likely to win

Norgannon and Aman'Thul are cunning, they have knowledge and wisdom, but I would not give them the lead at actual intellect. Kil'Jaeden has recruited the majority of the burning legion trough deception and sharp tongue. Even though he can not see the future, he has predicted things years ahead. He caused a ripple effect with the orcs. He played ONE trick with Ner'Zhuls mind and it only took a short amount of time before the entire orcish race fought in Kil'Jaedens name living in the lie that Kil'Jaeden had shared.

Umm... Link... Not from any of the Zelda games, but from SSBM, because he's pure cheatery in that game.

Good, but not unbeatable.

Originally posted by rader
Umm... Link...


haermm

Lucifer from painkiller, hes the devil, hes a clever guy and corrupter for sure

Ganondorf.

What has he done to deserve the title?

For one thing, he always in terms of using his mind outmaneuvers the protagonists, even the ancient and wise Sages and gods, he easily manipulated Link into giving him the Triforce, and has manipulated him in many other games as well, a plot device always has to be made to stop him.

Much like Kil'Jaeden then. However, I fail to see decieving Link as a powerful merit. He is after all a teenager

Kil'jaeden however, trough almost words alone enslaved one of the most intellectual races in the history of Warcraft

Originally posted by Becci
Much like Kil'Jaeden then. However, I fail to see decieving Link as a powerful merit. He is after all a teenager

Kil'jaeden however, trough almost words alone enslaved one of the most intellectual races in the history of Warcraft So? He uses his mind to solve the many puzzles in dungeons and when he fights huge monsters. He is smarter than you give him credit for. Also, Link is not the only one he deveives and manipulates.

master chief. if he loses he shoots the guy in the forehead. if not mc then cortana. HAHAHAHA I WIN no one can beat cortana

Antonidas pwns all their faces in a game of Chess.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
So? He uses his mind to solve the many puzzles in dungeons and when he fights huge monsters. He is smarter than you give him credit for. Also, Link is not the only one he deveives and manipulates.

And Kil'Jaeden is smarter than you all give him credit for.. he basically fortold the future without the ability to see into the future.. trough his entire life, his mind has failed him TWICE.. One time, was when he thought that the powers of Sargeras would make him do good deeds, and the second time when he didnt predict the breakout of Lich King..

He pretended to be another person character, spoke a few dialogues and it had a ripple effect large enough to destroy an entire planet.. he had multiple races kneel to him by single words.. Those that did not fall for his tongue, knelt to his powers of deceptions and illusions.. He is the man that has won WARS without barely lifting a finger..

If given the chance, this guy would basically be able to talk The World War and World War Two into peace, lifting not even a finger..
(Well, his look alone would have people stop fighting, but lets pretend he takes human form)



In order to outsmart Kil'Jaeden, I think you'll have to be a mindreader..

Ore just as skillful a planner capable of seeing just as far ahead as he self does, Sargares would be a good match, but since Warcraft characters is excluded...

Warcraft characters are excluded? Well, I still think Kil'Jaeden match and even exceed Sargeras.. Sargeras is cunning, but Kil'Jaeden is intellectual..

Sargares is very intellectual too, he planned his own defeat at the hands of Aegwynn, only to be capable of later on using her son as a Tool to transport the Orcs to Azeroth, I think he has shown great Intelligence as well, and when Sargares wasn't corrupted he was Aman'Thul's advisor.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Sargares is very intellectual too, he planned his own defeat at the hands of Aegwynn, only to be capable of later on using her son as a Tool to transport the Orcs to Azeroth, I think he has shown great Intelligence as well, and when Sargares wasn't corrupted he was Aman'Thul's advisor.

Planning your defeat isn't hard

And yes Sargeras is very very cunning and clever. But Kil'jaeden appears more so IMO

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Planning your defeat isn't hard

And yes Sargeras is very very cunning and clever. But Kil'jaeden appears more so IMO

Well it is, if you are planning on making you own death trigger events many years into the future

More intelligent perhaps, more cunning imo no.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
And Kil'Jaeden is smarter than you all give him credit for.. he basically fortold the future without the ability to see into the future.. trough his entire life, his mind has failed him TWICE.. One time, was when he thought that the powers of Sargeras would make him do good deeds, and the second time when he didnt predict the breakout of Lich King..

He pretended to be another person character, spoke a few dialogues and it had a ripple effect large enough to destroy an entire planet.. he had multiple races kneel to him by single words.. Those that did not fall for his tongue, knelt to his powers of deceptions and illusions.. He is the man that has won WARS without barely lifting a finger..

If given the chance, this guy would basically be able to talk The World War and World War Two into peace, lifting not even a finger..
(Well, his look alone would have people stop fighting, but lets pretend he takes human form)



In order to outsmart Kil'Jaeden, I think you'll have to be a mindreader.. And the times his cunning failed him cost him DEARLY.

......Speaking and making ripples that can destroy a planet=intelligence...how?

Multiple races kneeling to him with single words? I have to ask...do you mean this literally or figureatively? Cause that sounds like mind control...

Deceptions? Is he gonna lie his way to victory in chess? Illusions? I am pretty sure those aren't allowed...

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And the times his cunning failed him cost him DEARLY.

......Speaking and making ripples that can destroy a planet=intelligence...how?

Multiple races kneeling to him with single words? I have to ask...do you mean this literally or figureatively? Cause that sounds like mind control...

Deceptions? Is he gonna lie his way to victory in chess? Illusions? I am pretty sure those aren't allowed...

- His fail never costed him anything. His first fail made him happy and the second fail is a misstake he would easily correct.

- He tricked an entire race to war against a race that they had no hostility with, destroying his sworn enemies and the planet that they resided on.

- I meant it litteraly, and Kil'Jaeden hasnt shown any sign of mindcontrol. His life is based on manipulation and decieve.

- Deception and illusions probably arent, but Kil'Jaeden isnt who he is because of the powers he has.. he is who he is because of his mind.. his powers only help him reach his goals

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
- His fail never costed him anything. His first fail made him happy and the second fail is a misstake he would easily correct.

- He tricked an entire race to war against a race that they had no hostility with, destroying his sworn enemies and the planet that they resided on.

- I meant it litteraly, and Kil'Jaeden hasnt shown any sign of mindcontrol. His life is based on manipulation and decieve.

- Deception and illusions probably arent, but Kil'Jaeden isnt who he is because of the powers he has.. he is who he is because of his mind.. his powers only help him reach his goals

people normally bow before Kil'Jaeden for two reasons.

1. He tricks them

2. He uses his magical power to force them into submersion and when you have seen the average Dreadlords stats in MoM then the feat grows.

Originally posted by Utrigita
people normally bow before Kil'Jaeden for two reasons.

1. He tricks them

2. He uses his magical power to force them into submersion and when you have seen the average Dreadlords stats in MoM then the feat grows.

While in fact, people should bow to him because of..

1. His power

meh, i dont know about the "easily correcting" the lich king part, the lich king is imo a very powerful force now, especially if the RPG game is anything to go by, hes listed at equel rating as Archi, who is only 2 below killy, so if he managed it, it would be difficult if not the end of him in the end

Originally posted by Burning thought
meh, i dont know about the "easily correcting" the lich king part, the lich king is imo a very powerful force now, especially if the RPG game is anything to go by, hes listed at equel rating as Archi, who is only 2 below killy, so if he managed it, it would be difficult if not the end of him in the end

We'll have to wait and see..

i h8 waiting

So do I.. I want to see the powers of Lich King so badly..

And worst part of it all will be that the Lich King is the final WotLK encounter! Meaning that even when the expansion is being released, there will probably be MONTHS until someone actually gets him down..

Originally posted by Burning thought
meh, i dont know about the "easily correcting" the lich king part, the lich king is imo a very powerful force now, especially if the RPG game is anything to go by, hes listed at equel rating as Archi, who is only 2 below killy, so if he managed it, it would be difficult if not the end of him in the end

If I remember correctly then Archimonde has a CR at 50 Kil'Jaeden at 59 and Lichking at 50.

Now I don't like using this because Malorne with a CR at 69 was defeated by Archimonde.

Now going by Abilities for Lichking. str 32, dex 28, Con ---, int 30, Wis 32, Cha 27.
Archimondes turn.
str 41, dex 18, con 31, int 28, wis 28, cha 37.

Overall

I May have looked the wrong place and put in some wrong stats for Archimonde the are pretty closely tied together ...

then when we take the Spell abilities. as a 20th level sorcerer Lich King as a 20 level Wizard, Now If I have understood the RPG correct (which I actually doubt) then it is better to be a sorcerer then being a Wizard.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
- His fail never costed him anything. His first fail made him happy and the second fail is a misstake he would easily correct.

- He tricked an entire race to war against a race that they had no hostility with, destroying his sworn enemies and the planet that they resided on.

- I meant it litteraly, and Kil'Jaeden hasnt shown any sign of mindcontrol. His life is based on manipulation and decieve.

- Deception and illusions probably arent, but Kil'Jaeden isnt who he is because of the powers he has.. he is who he is because of his mind.. his powers only help him reach his goals 1. Really? He now has an adversary whose power may very well rival his own, he sure as hell didn't plan the revival of the Lich King.

2. Oh okay. Impressive no doubt, but Ganon tricked an entire kingdom into a false sense of security, pretended to ally with the king, and killed him when he got the chance, all while manipulating Link to open the Door of Time, where the Triforce resided.

3. So he, with a single word, can make races kneel to him? How is that NOT mind control?

4. Well, actually, he's where he is because of the big man Sargeras, but to each his own.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Really? He now has an adversary whose power may very well rival his own, he sure as hell didn't plan the revival of the Lich King.

2. Oh okay. Impressive no doubt, but Ganon tricked an entire kingdom into a false sense of security, pretended to ally with the king, and killed him when he got the chance, all while manipulating Link to open the Door of Time, where the Triforce resided.

3. So he, with a single word, can make races kneel to him? How is that NOT mind control?

4. Well, actually, he's where he is because of the big man Sargeras, but to each his own.

1. Who? Lich King? vin
2. An entire kingdom is impressive, but are they equals to the Dreadlords at mind?
3. Who said anything about 'a single word'?
4. He is who he wasnt because of Sargeras, but he is who he is because of his mind.. Archimonde was blessed with the same quantity of power as Kil'jaeden and look how much they differ..

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
1. Who? Lich King? vin
2. An entire kingdom is impressive, but are they equals to the Dreadlords at mind?
3. Who said anything about 'a single word'?
4. He is who he wasnt because of Sargeras, but he is who he is because of his mind.. Archimonde was blessed with the same quantity of power as Kil'jaeden and look how much they differ..

Just to further a little on what you are saying in point 3.

A single word from Kil'Jaeden might be enough to trigger a Paramount spell, a effect of that paramount effect could be ripping a planet to pieces, now If I saw a being utilizing that kind of spell with a Word I would get on my knees in a hurry.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
1. Who? Lich King? vin
2. An entire kingdom is impressive, but are they equals to the Dreadlords at mind?
3. Who said anything about 'a single word'?
4. He is who he wasnt because of Sargeras, but he is who he is because of his mind.. Archimonde was blessed with the same quantity of power as Kil'jaeden and look how much they differ.. 1. Yes, Lich King. He is without a doubt a great threat to the Burning Legion.

2. How the hell should I know? And he has done things like that many times, like when he fooled Zant into accepting him as a god to use Zant as a connection to the physical plane.

3. You said multiple races kneeling to him by single words. And if what Ultrigos says has any merit, then that sounds more like fear.

4. ...Yeah, but the bulk of his power is from Sargeras.

you realize cortana is a completely analytical being and she can see every move and every option. she wins instantly, seeing as she can see every statistical option

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Yes, Lich King. He is without a doubt a great threat to the Burning Legion.

2. How the hell should I know? And he has done things like that many times, like when he fooled Zant into accepting him as a god to use Zant as a connection to the physical plane.

3. You said multiple races kneeling to him by single words. And if what Ultrigos says has any merit, then that sounds more like fear.

4. ...Yeah, but the bulk of his power is from Sargeras.

Kil'Jaeden would wipe the floor with him

Dreadlords where doing that before Sargares stopped them, if was there corruption that had the final effect on him.

Get the book and get back, Dark-jaxx Manual of monsters speaks clearly of the Paramount spells. And if they yield to him because of fear respect for his power ore his ability to manipulate them isn't really important the fact is that the sheer size of the Legion and it's numerous abilities can only be attributed to Kil'Jaeden, as Darth said he turned the Orcs a peace loving race into mindless brutes without using any magic to accomplish this he used words alone.

Even before that Bulk the Eredar as a race was seen as the Greatest Sorcerers in the Universe (disregarding Titans)

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Yes, Lich King. He is without a doubt a great threat to the Burning Legion.

2. How the hell should I know? And he has done things like that many times, like when he fooled Zant into accepting him as a god to use Zant as a connection to the physical plane.

3. You said multiple races kneeling to him by single words. And if what Ultrigos says has any merit, then that sounds more like fear.

4. ...Yeah, but the bulk of his power is from Sargeras.

1. you should make a career in comedy

2. You seem so awfully cunning about warcraft, so I kinda assumed you would know.. I apologize

3. By SIMPLE words.. He used words and advance mind to persuade them, not his raw power.. And the orcs didnt kneel to his awesome powers, because they had no idea even who they knealt to..

4. The bulk of his power would have him toy Ganon like a feather.. the "bulk" is not bulk.. but he doesnt use his bulk much..

HELLO COULD YOU STOP IGNORING ME AND ANSWER MY DAMN COMMENTS!!!

Originally posted by Utrigita
Kil'Jaeden would wipe the floor with him

Dreadlords where doing that before Sargares stopped them, if was there corruption that had the final effect on him.

Get the book and get back, Dark-jaxx Manual of monsters speaks clearly of the Paramount spells. And if they yield to him because of fear respect for his power ore his ability to manipulate them isn't really important the fact is that the sheer size of the Legion and it's numerous abilities can only be attributed to Kil'Jaeden, as Darth said he turned the Orcs a peace loving race into mindless brutes without using any magic to accomplish this he used words alone.

Even before that Bulk the Eredar as a race was seen as the Greatest Sorcerers in the Universe (disregarding Titans) 1. Prove it. Fact is we do not know enough about current Lich King to conclude that Kil'jaedan can or cannot beat him.

2. Wait...what? They have existed past their physical form, posed as a god to a mortal and given the mortal godlike powers?

3. It IS important, he can't use fear or respect to win chess. Turned the Orcs into a mindless race with words? How? What did he say?

4. Yeah, but Sargeras still provided most of his power. Sure, he was powerful before, but Sargeras amped his power to much greater levels.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
1. you should make a career in comedy

2. You seem so awfully cunning about warcraft, so I kinda assumed you would know.. I apologize

3. By SIMPLE words.. He used words and advance mind to persuade them, not his raw power.. And the orcs didnt kneel to his awesome powers, because they had no idea even who they knealt to..

4. The bulk of his power would have him toy Ganon like a feather.. the "bulk" is not bulk.. but he doesnt use his bulk much.. 1. The Scourge is huge, and it has many powerful warriors and stuff, they are a threat.

2. I don't know a whole lot.

3. He is not going to be able to persuade his opponent to letting him win. He seems to be more of a deceiver, similar to Saruman.

4. Last time I checked this isn't a battle.

i hate you people...

Originally posted by chickenlover98
i hate you people... Cortana is hotter so she wins.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
you realize cortana is a completely analytical being and she can see every move and every option. she wins instantly, seeing as she can see every statistical option

Computers has been defeated before.. Being a supreme computer doesnt make you undefeatable at chess.. Besides, Cortana holds information, not near as much intelligence as Kil'jaeden..

There, I replied..

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. The Scourge is huge, and it has many powerful warriors and stuff, they are a threat.

2. I don't know a whole lot.

3. He is not going to be able to persuade his opponent to letting him win. He seems to be more of a deceiver, similar to Saruman.

4. Last time I checked this isn't a battle.

1. The scourge is a minor part of the habitants of Azeroth.. The burning legion exceede billions.. The only threat that the scourge currently holds is Lich King and Anub'Arak, and they arent even a real threat to Kil'jaeden.. The discussion has been made.. if you like, I could try find the thread..

3. He will not persuade them, but from how I got it, this thread wants to find out who is smarter than him, and chess was just an irrelevant "book-cover"

4. Nope, but it is limited by his mind, and he is said to be omnipotent-potential..

ime all about the Lich King beating Kil'jaeden, thats the only thing i think Jaxx is bringing up thats true, we dont know enough about Lich King to make a decision, Lich King has great powers himself, i wouldnt rule him out of defeating anyone in Azeroth or indeed Burning legion members until ive seen him fall canonically to someone far weaker, or seen his abilities to be on low calibre.

although whats this about exactley? Lich is WoW and i thot they were not allowed now?

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
1. The scourge is a minor part of the habitants of Azeroth.. The burning legion exceede billions.. The only threat that the scourge currently holds is Lich King and Anub'Arak, and they arent even a real threat to Kil'jaeden.. The discussion has been made.. if you like, I could try find the thread..

3. He will not persuade them, but from how I got it, this thread wants to find out who is smarter than him, and chess was just an irrelevant "book-cover"

4. Nope, but it is limited by his mind, and he is said to be omnipotent-potential.. 1. The Scourge is growing larger day by day aren't they? And in all seriousness, LK can prolly solo a BL militia(no people like Kiljaedan). You can find it, but I admit I am disadvantaged to you in terms of Warcraft knowledge. I only know what I have read and find the lore quite fascinating, unfortunately I have not made the time to purchase any of the games.

3. ...I was thinking it was just a chess game. I think KOS-MOS is smarter in some ways, she can rapidly go over different strategies and pick the one with greatest success. Pyron is smarter in terms of knowledge, but not manipulation or cunning. I don't know anyone overall as smart as him though.

4. You mean this quote,"He was not omnipotent...but still..." or something to that effect? That is hyperbole, he has not even shown the power to border on omnipotence or even reality warping, and that quote only says he isn't all powerful but seems to be in comparison with most mortals.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
Computers has been defeated before.. Being a supreme computer doesnt make you undefeatable at chess.. Besides, Cortana holds information, not near as much intelligence as Kil'jaeden..

There, I replied.. well prove she can be beat. i dare you

Originally posted by chickenlover98
well prove she can be beat. i dare you

Sigh..

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. The Scourge is growing larger day by day aren't they? And in all seriousness, LK can prolly solo a BL militia(no people like Kiljaedan). You can find it, but I admit I am disadvantaged to you in terms of Warcraft knowledge. I only know what I have read and find the lore quite fascinating, unfortunately I have not made the time to purchase any of the games.

3. ...I was thinking it was just a chess game. I think KOS-MOS is smarter in some ways, she can rapidly go over different strategies and pick the one with greatest success. Pyron is smarter in terms of knowledge, but not manipulation or cunning. I don't know anyone overall as smart as him though.

4. You mean this quote,"He was not omnipotent...but still..." or something to that effect? That is hyperbole, he has not even shown the power to border on omnipotence or even reality warping, and that quote only says he isn't all powerful but seems to be in comparison with most mortals.

"Kil'Jaeden was not omnipotent.. yet"

Yeah, Hyperbole.

"Prove she can be beat"?

Lulz.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yeah, Hyperbole.

"Prove she can be beat"?

Lulz. hey hey, the lulz aare all mine, same wth teh mudkips. MY MUDKIPS!!!!!!!! and seriously cortana wins. she's an advanced computer vs a medieval guy, kinda obvious here

Originally posted by chickenlover98
hey hey, the lulz aare all mine, same wth teh mudkips. MY MUDKIPS!!!!!!!! and seriously cortana wins. she's an advanced computer vs a hugely powerful warlock, who has foreseen events hundred of years before their happening, and has tricked entire races to be his obiedient and faithful slaves, kinda obvious here

Fixed

a "medieval guy" is no more stupid than a guy from this day and age :roleyes:
besides, this is no "medieval guy", you're just generalising..
cortana doesnt have the cunning to stand up to killy's uber chess skilz!

b.s.n, i cant really think of many people who could
maybe KOS-MOS...or the elder god (hed have to mindcontrol someone human sized to do the work for him tho )

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Prove it. Fact is we do not know enough about current Lich King to conclude that Kil'jaedan can or cannot beat him.

2. Wait...what? They have existed past their physical form, posed as a god to a mortal and given the mortal godlike powers?

3. It IS important, he can't use fear or respect to win chess. Turned the Orcs into a mindless race with words? How? What did he say?

4. Yeah, but Sargeras still provided most of his power. Sure, he was powerful before, but Sargeras amped his power to much greater levels.

I can mail you a webaddress to download Manual of Monsters and Shadows and Light, The stats in those two books can be used to compare the Lich King against Kil'Jaeden, and you know what? the Lich King loses

what does that have to do with anything I just said

I don't know what he said, do you want a complete reference Kil'jaede: I doesn't like Azeroth Ner'Zhul: we are peaceloving we wouldn't help you. I that what you want??? It's Lore/Canon that Kil'Jaeden used he cunning and his intellect to bind the Ordish Race to his will, He didn't utilize any magical abilities to turn them to the Legion.

4. Can you prove that??? out of interest...

Originally posted by Utrigita
I can mail you a webaddress to download Manual of Monsters and Shadows and Light, The stats in those two books can be used to compare the Lich King against Kil'Jaeden, and you know what? the Lich King loses



well to be fair not by much...challenge rating diffrence of 2 is the only easy way to compare them, otherwise your mucking about with diffrence classes and such but ime sure their all equelling powerful and the classes of each are not neccerily true to the canon, i mean Warlock is belivable for Eredar but Shaman and other things for Titans is unlikely, i wouldnt put them under any class in canon

Just to make sure that this is not developed in the wrong way- there is a big difference between being a lore Warlock and a WoW Warlock


As for a titan, they are to powerful to be classified as one particular class.

Originally posted by Burning thought
well to be fair not by much...challenge rating diffrence of 2 is the only easy way to compare them, otherwise your mucking about with diffrence classes and such but ime sure their all equelling powerful and the classes of each are not neccerily true to the canon, i mean Warlock is belivable for Eredar but Shaman and other things for Titans is unlikely, i wouldnt put them under any class in canon

As I have said earlier I doesn't put much into the CR since Malorne was defeated by Archimonde which has a lower CR. And when I compare I go into stats that both parties in question has (in this case Lich King and Kil'Jaeden) Kil'Jaeden got the highest scores, his spell level is enormous a level 56 Sorcerer. A roleplaying friend of mine told me that everything above 20 is insane in RPG. Also why do you find it unlikely that the Titans are Shamans??? They detest Arcana Magic and believe it to be evil in Nature the only one of utilize Arcana magic is Norgannom so...

I wouldnt class the ancient entities as anything shaman, ime sure they excisted long before anyone thought of the word shaman and they are of several levels of power themselves, i would not class them as a WoW class

Originally posted by Utrigita
I can mail you a webaddress to download Manual of Monsters and Shadows and Light, The stats in those two books can be used to compare the Lich King against Kil'Jaeden, and you know what? the Lich King loses

what does that have to do with anything I just said

I don't know what he said, do you want a complete reference Kil'jaede: I doesn't like Azeroth Ner'Zhul: we are peaceloving we wouldn't help you. I that what you want??? It's Lore/Canon that Kil'Jaeden used he cunning and his intellect to bind the Ordish Race to his will, He didn't utilize any magical abilities to turn them to the Legion.

4. Can you prove that??? out of interest... 1. Okay, but saying he is not a threat to his power is wrong IMO, it is not always the strongest who wins, Nerzhul has shown great intelligence as well.

2. I have no idea.

3. ...What?

4. He was around Velen's power before right? Now he, like, isn't.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Okay, but saying he is not a threat to his power is wrong IMO, it is not always the strongest who wins, Nerzhul has shown great intelligence as well.

2. I have no idea.

3. ...What?

4. He was around Velen's power before right? Now he, like, isn't.

1. No, he hasnt. Ner'Zhul has failed at intelligence trough his entire life.

3. What Utrigita meant, was that Kil'Jaeden persuaded an entire race, that was already in conflict to ally and fight Kil'Jaedens enemies with nothing but words. They did not even know that they did evil.

4. And I guess you think that Velen is just some weak magiciant?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I wouldnt class the ancient entities as anything shaman, ime sure they excisted long before anyone thought of the word shaman and they are of several levels of power themselves, i would not class them as a WoW class

They sure did but as mentioned before it's purely for the Gamesmasters sake incase someone would try and attack them. Also WoW was publiced in 2004 the RPG the same year 2004 both the RPG and the Game. Then one can argue who stole what

Also most titans have multiply classes.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Okay, but saying he is not a threat to his power is wrong IMO, it is not always the strongest who wins, Nerzhul has shown great intelligence as well.

2. I have no idea.

3. ...What?

4. He was around Velen's power before right? Now he, like, isn't.

1. Not enough to say that he is more intelligent then Kil'Jaeden that only have made miscalculations in his plans two times, in eons.

2. Neither have I

3. What Becci said.

4. He was higher then Velen, Now what I want you to proof is that the boost that Sargeras gave him sent his power flying upwards, can you do that?

Originally posted by Utrigita
1. Not enough to say that he is more intelligent then Kil'Jaeden that only have made miscalculations in his plans two times, in eons.

2. Neither have I

3. What Becci said.

4. He was higher then Velen, Now what I want you to proof is that the boost that Sargeras gave him sent his power flying upwards, can you do that? 1. Becci, Nerzhul went from having no body and being frozen in a block of ice to wrenching the Scourge from Kiljaedan's hands and becoming one of the most powerful beings in Azeroth, how is that not intelligent?

2. I can't even remember what we were talking about.

3. Okie dokie.

4. Because the offer of power Sargeras gave was so great that Killy and Archie were like a couple of happy fat children receiving a donut when they were offered.

1. Wrong. Ner'Zhul was imprisoned and granted power over the undead. The reason he became as powerful as he did was not because of his intelligence. It was due to the misstake of Kil'Jaeden to not limit the expanding powers of the Lich King. Ner'Zhul was LUCKY.

What's up with all you KMC people and your love for Ner'Zhuls mind The guy was lucky. His intelligence has never helped him achieve anything. Not until after his mind started expanding in the frozen prison did he start using that thing called a mind.

4. I am not sure what you two are discussing. However, I do know that Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde recieved powers beyond their dreams. They just have not learnt to use it fully yet

And Velen is VERY powerful, even though he is not blessed by Sargeras.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Becci, Nerzhul went from having no body and being frozen in a block of ice to wrenching the Scourge from Kiljaedan's hands and becoming one of the most powerful beings in Azeroth, how is that not intelligent?

2. I can't even remember what we were talking about.

3. Okie dokie.

4. Because the offer of power Sargeras gave was so great that Killy and Archie were like a couple of happy fat children receiving a donut when they were offered.

1. Thats not intelligence that is cunning buddy, coupled with enormous amounts of luck, Archimonde the moment he entered Azeroth stripped the Lich King of his command over the Scrouge.

2.

4. And a donut wouldn't make the fat boys grow more would it??? From where dou you have the idea that Kil'Jaeden got a huge powerboost when he joined Sargeras (I know Kil'Jaeden did but what I want you too do is to prove it like you have asked me too do with some things)