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Dante has infinite DT ,Disaster and Royal Gauge.
No timestop.
Who wins?

Kain

Dante got that "I am the hero aura around him, more than likely he shoots Kains like he shoots everything else."

I wonder what would happen to Kain if Dante would punch him with full strenght to the face while wearing Gilgamesh.....mmm

So it begins..

ive not played DMC4 so ime guessing youve given him infnite Royal gauge so he can stay Dreadnought, making hm invulerable, and invulerable to TK, i dont know what disaster is, sounds DMC4ish

Kain BFR Dante by going to another dimension and sending Dante into it with the Dimension emblem of the reaver, OR neither of them win, what with Dante being invulerable and Kain being invulerable then neither can win, you did not take away resurrection either, so Kain cnanot die and will reform if Dante even got the upper hand and thats without the Repel shield

Kain shields and rips out Dantes soul, being invulerable on the outside is all well and good, but when an opponent can rip your soul out from within, its useless unless someone can prove its not invulerability just on the outside and makes Dante immune to all attacks possible like Kains shield, Kain could also mind control Dante

either way, Kain would simply beat dante around for a while with the reaver before getting bored and ripping his soul

Originally posted by Estacado
I wonder what would happen to Kain if Dante would punch him with full strenght to the face while wearing Gilgamesh.....mmm

probably not alot, hed end up punching mist, or kain will just reform if the hit did much at all, whats Gilgamesh done before however?

Infinite Disaster Gauge= infinite tricks with Pandora Box. Whether Kain will be destroyed by released chaos or shot by multiple weapons is interesting (BTW I don't know how would Kain fare versus modern weaponry which is >>>>arrows etc Kain is used to).

Destroying a huge monolith with a punch sounds cool, BTW...

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Infinite Disaster Gauge= infinite tricks with Pandora Box. Whether Kain will be destroyed by released chaos or shot by multiple weapons is interesting (BTW I don't know how would Kain fare versus modern weaponry which is >>>>arrows etc Kain is used to).

Destroying a huge monolith with a punch sounds cool, BTW...

that depends on what ones, the missle based weapons are fairly slow if you take them from the old DMC, machine guns and pistols would pose little thread, first we know hes more durable than a human at young kain form before evolution, after evolution its unkown but we know hes evolved and is overall greater, i dont know about Pandoras box, either way kain would be behind a shield so it hardly matters and if he does not use his shield, Estacado has not taken away Kains resurrection so Kain will come back again and again and again. Also although a bullet to humans is more dangerous, a bulllet to a vampire is likely nothing, first an arrow can be set alight and second it sticks into the body, a bullet would just fly through a nosgothian vampire and it would not likley notice, and an arrow in the heart is> a bullet through the heart to Nosgothian vampires, even the baby ones because you need to keep something impaling the heart to kill a Nosgothian vampire, otherwise their bodies regenerate and restore if you take out the impaling object

Pandora's box can become 666 weapons also there is the Omen trick which is powerful energy released from it can cause huge damage to anyone also royal gauge enables Dante to become invulnerable and as I said Yamato can easily cut mist just like Lucifer.


Edit: Dante destroyed the Hell Gates with Yamato.

As for Kain mind controlling Dante.....haermm
He can't even mind control the Sarafan.
Also when has Kain shown soul rip in Defiance?
Oh and Kain is not invulnerable.
When has ever Kain banished someone into another dimension?
Also Yamato can cut through dimensional barriers.

This is Kain form Defiance not BT's fantasy Kain....

Originally posted by Estacado
Pandora's box can become 666 weapons also there is the Omen trick which is powerful energy released from it can cause huge damage to anyone also royal gauge enables Dante to become invulnerable and as I said Yamato can easily cut mist just like Lucifer.


Edit: Dante destroyed the Hell Gates with Yamato.

so? 666 weapons, what ones are shown in the game, apprently a chain gun sort of weapon etc etc, i know, dreadnought....

Originally posted by Estacado
As for Kain mind controlling Dante.....haermm
He can't even mind control the Sarafan.
Also when has Kain shown soul rip in Defiance?
Oh and Kain is not invulnerable.
When has ever Kain banished someone into another dimension?
Also Yamato can cut through dimensional barriers.

This is Kain form Defiance not BT's fantasy Kain....


why not? and thats Charm your talking about, thats not the same as mind control, also the power can mind control sarafan and many humans as Marcas shows us, only ofc game balance has to be taken into account otherwise kain would be able to Charm all his enemies, he can mind control most enemies with it, also ime yet to see Dantes mind reject direct mind control, so until you show it saying "zomg Dante is high demonic lord and is uberz!!111!!one!!" does not cut it ime afraid

he did not show it in defiance, so your suggesting this is kain with moves only shown in defiance, or moves kain at defiance would have? this is confusing, if this is just DMC4 Dante then i suppose everything he showns in DMC1-3 is now moot and void in this debate, this match is crooked

he cannot die, its good as, and when he has repel shield, he is invulerable to harm, deal with it, Kain cannot die so nothing Dante can do can beat kain, and what with the shield he would destroy Dante throughly through powers that do not touch Dantes invulerable body, but his soul, mind etc etc

Kain has not, but hes got the same power as someone who did and can, the dimension guardian, he has more power, but i suppose the highest feat using those powers is what the dimension guardian has shown

ive not got a fantasy kain, which one do you call fantasy? there are none.....

considering i dont know much about DMC4 and considering it seems DMC1-3 are now moot by the rule of Estacado, can someone please show some impressive videos please, this is looking like a furion thread, kain with his powers taken away VS a guy given extra power, fair enough that it takes that sort of match for kain to feel any worry at all but come on...its not really kain Dante is fighting, its Estacados "kain i want to kill coz he beats my fan characters"

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=464182&pagenumber=10
Videos from DMC4 are here. Look and enjoy, darling... (almost wrote 'darkling', lol).

okie ime watching them, so what are your arguments VS kain with Dante? that goes to Estacado and Debel taking into consideration that its only stuff in DMC4 that can be used for evidence? please list the power and how it would be a problem for kain, try and take into account Kain wont be doing nothing while Dante is doing something

also the Pandoras box looks awosme ,cant w8 to use it myself when i get the game

Originally posted by Burning thought
so? 666 weapons, what ones are shown in the game, apprently a chain gun sort of weapon etc etc, i know, dreadnought....




why not? and thats Charm your talking about, thats not the same as mind control, also the power can mind control sarafan and many humans as Marcas shows us, only ofc game balance has to be taken into account otherwise kain would be able to Charm all his enemies, he can mind control most enemies with it, also ime yet to see Dantes mind reject direct mind control, so until you show it saying "zomg Dante is high demonic lord and is uberz!!111!!one!!" does not cut it ime afraid

he did not show it in defiance, so your suggesting this is kain with moves only shown in defiance, or moves kain at defiance would have? this is confusing, if this is just DMC4 Dante then i suppose everything he showns in DMC1-3 is now moot and void in this debate, this match is crooked

he cannot die, its good as, and when he has repel shield, he is invulerable to harm, deal with it, Kain cannot die so nothing Dante can do can beat kain, and what with the shield he would destroy Dante throughly through powers that do not touch Dantes invulerable body, but his soul, mind etc etc

Kain has not, but hes got the same power as someone who did and can, the dimension guardian, he has more power, but i suppose the highest feat using those powers is what the dimension guardian has shown

ive not got a fantasy kain, which one do you call fantasy? there are none.....

considering i dont know much about DMC4 and considering it seems DMC1-3 are now moot by the rule of Estacado, can someone please show some impressive videos please, this is looking like a furion thread, kain with his powers taken away VS a guy given extra power, fair enough that it takes that sort of match for kain to feel any worry at all but come on...its not really kain Dante is fighting, its Estacados "kain i want to kill coz he beats my fan characters"
You have no proof of Kain's mind control.....
Since when is Kain invulnerable?
Even in Defiance he says he must avoid water cause it burns him like accid.....
Still no proof of soulrip/mindcontrol just your imaginary bullcrap......

Yes you have a fantasy Kain which you think can beat Galactus and the DMC/GOW universe combined.

Originally posted by Estacado
You have no proof of Kain's mind control.....
Since when is Kain invulnerable?
Even in Defiance he says he must avoid water cause it burns him like accid.....
Still no proof of soulrip/mindcontrol just your imaginary bullcrap......

Yes you have a fantasy Kain which you think can beat Galactus and the DMC/GOW universe combined.

wtf? what do you mean, he has mind control..... and to the same stupid point he has soulrip and mindcontrol :
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/bo1/spells.php

spirit death, mind control, pretty clear to me.....cant read hm?

Kain cannot die, he always comes back no matter what. further proof is his heart being ripped out and hes fine not long after, and for those who dont understand, his heart is basically his life, most imporant thing in his body

it does burn him, i didnt mean invulerable as in you cant cut him, ofc you can cut him, Raziel shows us he can, but no matter what you do to kain, he cannot die, he will always come back as his role as scion of balance means he has to, so he cannot be destroyed, and since dante has no real way of defeating kain either, kain wins this with ease and Dante is a gonner, also Water is hardly anything to kain....even Raziel took thousands of years to burn up in the lake of the dead which is a massive mealstrom and he is only a portion of kains power and soul


thats theory kain, not fantasy kain, the theory is close enough to be true, he very likely has concept control, normal kain were talking about now could destroy the DMC and GOW universes combined, not Galactus but those two, the more enemies you add, the easier it becomes for kain because it means he has constant blood flow and many of his attacks are AOE, nothing in those universes are equel to kain and most would just be soul/blood food for him making him even more powerful by gaining their powers through drinking their blood, considering Dante is DMC most powerful the rest of the unvierse is nothing, same with GOW, only most things in that are not worthy apart from maybe Hades and Zeus

WTF are you talking about?
Ariel was the Scion of Balance as well yet she got killed by Mortanius......
As for Kain beating GOW and DMC....crylaugh

As for the whole Immortality bullcrap as said in LOK Kain had two choices

1.Kill himself and restore Nosgoth
2."Remake" the vampires

Dante just cuts him into pieces with Yamato.

Originally posted by Estacado
WTF are you talking about?
Ariel was the Scion of Balance as well yet she got killed by Mortanius......
As for Kain beating GOW and DMC....crylaugh

As for the whole Immortality bullcrap as said in LOK Kain had two choices

1.Kill himself and restore Nosgoth
2."Remake" the vampires

Dante just cuts him into pieces with Yamato.

wrong lmao, Ariel was the balance Guardian no one othe than kain has been the scion of balance......read up and actually get some limited info on Kain before you say rubbish please

yeh right....make the thread if you wish, you wont be able to debate it ime sure of it

the choice was an illusion as kain says in the Soul reaver 2 intro theres no way he had a choice and he never would of died, because time is immtabe which means he never would of made that choice, that was his choice, he could of died if he had done it, but since time is immutable, he never would have, so something would of stopped him, but this is Kain at the end of defiance as the scion of balance

but that was the illusion of choice he was given, although making vampires was not neccerily a choice he was given, he just chose to do it afterwards, the actual choice ariel gave was sacrifice himself and restore the pillars and Nosgoth, or let the world rot and rule the rotting world.


nah Dante hits Kains repel shield, starts spouting rubbish then kain gets bored and blasts the soul from his body, or mind controls him and uses him as a puppet, deactivates all the powers like DT, Dreadnought and makes Dante impale himself on Yamato

My bad it's been a long time since I played any of the LOK games still he can be killed or defeated as it was shown in BO2 and told in LOK.
So the sword can cut through dimensions but not Kain's shield?
Yeah right....
Kain didn't have any of those powers you mentioned in Defiance....

Deactives Dante's powers wtf are you smoking?haermm
Where do you get all that imaginary crap from?










Edit: Seriously your logic and fantasy stuff fails so much you won't even worth time let this be my last post towards you.

Originally posted by Estacado
My bad it's been a long time since I played any of the LOK games still he can be killed or defeated as it was shown in BO2 and told in LOK.
So the sword can cut through dimensions but not Kain's shield?
Yeah right....
Kain didn't have any of those powers you mentioned in Defiance....

Deactives Dante's powers wtf are you smoking?haermm
Where do you get all that imaginary crap from?

Edit: Seriously your logic and fantasy stuff fails so much you won't even worth time let this be my last post towards you.

yes your bad, like most of your posts

Bo2, defeated, yes but not killed and the Sarafan had a good many things over kain, like the Nexus stone for example that made him invulerable to the reaver, thats all

no not kains shield, why should it? Dimensions my @ss show me him cutting through a whole dimension and destroying it, if your just talking about a barrier then the barrier is not as powerful as kains shield which by its own rules cannot be harmed, especially not by any of Dantes puny weapons

so? once again your talking rubbish, its your thread, does kain have all his powers except time powers? or does he just have powers shown in Defiance, Defiance kain has all the powers of previous kains, just like ime sure Dante has all his old powers from when he was young in DMC3 and older in DMC2 plus most of his attacks, why would he lose them? why would kain? your talking BS just because kain has not used something does not mean he does not have it especially when hes had it before and this is his most powerful version

yeh, Dante can come out of Dreadnought or DT, you said he had infnite energy but even with infnite energy he can turn off his Devil form and his Dreadnought, he would not be stuck in those forms and kains Mind powers will make him make that decision. Dante is mincemeat either way.

...nope you fail completly and are too proud to say you concede good riddens to those who cant debate to save their lives, haters and spiters.

Dont forget that kain cannot simply just use his reaver like that, he needs to charge it first.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Dont forget that kain cannot simply just use his reaver like that, he needs to charge it first.

dont forget to get some knowledge on a subject just like Estacado

Wow ur still trying to fool people that Kain doesnt need to charge his reaver?

not fooling anyone laddie, your the only one who does...people whove actually played all the games who know more than you (me,madmel) know that charging the reaver is a gameplay mechanic, sort of like how you cant actually control kains teleportation/long jump along with all the other powers kain still has but you cannot use

Just because you have played more of the games doesnt give u the right to make up BS without any evidence. Kain could only start charging his reaver when he got the balance emblem, after that; he could put in different emblems which gave the reavers different powers once they were charged. That is how the reaver and its powers were explained, The Blood Reaver devours the blood of its victims, why did it devour blood? To charge it so it can use its powers. After drawing Raziel's spirit into itself, becomes a soul-consuming Soul Reaver, instead of consuming blood, it consumes souls to power it up. If you wanna argue it then atleast provide evidence.

exactley the thing though Terry, the reason why me and Madmel have more knowledge is that weve played the games, when we say something from LOK, they could have deep meanings that you could not comprehend from not playing the games, for example you speak of rubbish like "kain can only charge it once he collected the balance emblem" which is BS, because its been a blood devouring blade for all time, ever since it was created by the ancient vampires, it was made for drinking blood, nothing about the emblem, the emblems just allow kain to use the powers of the reaver in conjuction with the pillar concepts, like Time, Energy, conflict and dimension.

on need, the logic is all there, Raziel is an immortal soul, he does not get quenched, the only way for the blade to lose any power at all, is when its starved from souls over long periods of time, which could be thousands of years considering Raziel only shows need to feed after being destroyedwhich does not happen in the blade and the only time the sword was starved after hundreds of years was after being placed in the Nemesis Tomb which still had the power to drain Raziels soul energy to repair itself , not as if it matters because kain fights would not last a long time at all.

its gone from a chargable battery (blood reaver) to an inbuilt power source with a 100 year+ guarantee of power and the ability to charge it anyway

Thats what i meant, the balance emblem let it so that once it is charged it is able to use the power of the emblems when they are charged it was never stated anywhere that because raziels spirit is in the reaver (which became a soul reaver) that it doesn't need to be charged anymore, you clearly still see it still needing to be charged, the only difference is that it devours souls (like raziel) instead of blood(like kain).

The only difference between Soul reaver and the blood reaver is that its a ton more powerful when it attacks, and that its more like raziel in which it needs to be charged by devouring soulS instead of blood.

Your powersource theory isnt proof. Having one permanant soul doesn't mean its permanantly charged, one soul does not fully charge the reaver.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Thats what i meant, the balance emblem let it so that once it is charged it is able to use the power of the emblems when they are charged it was never stated anywhere that because raziels spirit is in the reaver (which became a soul reaver) that it doesn't need to be charged anymore, you clearly still see it still needing to be charged, the only difference is that it devours souls (like raziel) instead of blood(like kain).

The only difference between Soul reaver and the blood reaver is that its a ton more powerful when it attacks, and that its more like raziel in which it needs to be charged by devouring soulS instead of blood.

Your powersource theory isnt proof. Having one permanant soul doesn't mean its permanantly charged, one soul does not fully charge the reaver.

no false, the blood reaver needs to apprently gain blood which is also unlikely, nowhere other than the gameplay build up does it say that Kain needs to charge it up, nowhere in canon. its not stated that it has to be charged either in canon, only diffrence is me and Madmel have logic on our side as well as the knowledge of the games

clearly? when, theres a charge bar in the gameplay VS the Elder God, thats the only time you even get the blade

Raziel does not need to be charged, thats where your logic fails again, second theres many diffrences, the soul reaver takes souls, can hit incorporeal beingsl ike Elder God etc, although the reaver can aslo hit gaseous beings

its good logic and knowledge of the game VS someone using gameplay logic who hasnt even played all the games, the reaver does not have to charge, another example of how its just gameplay and not canon is how you dont even have to charge the reaver in Blood omen 1, not with souls, it drains from Kains personal energy which is magic, these are all uncanon gameplay elements to put a stop to kain destroying everything easily

Originally posted by Estacado
As for Kain mind controlling Dante.....haermm
He can't even mind control the Sarafan.
Also when has Kain shown soul rip in Defiance?
Oh and Kain is not invulnerable.
When has ever Kain banished someone into another dimension?
Also Yamato can cut through dimensional barriers.

This is Kain form Defiance not BT's fantasy Kain.... Good point there. I say Lucifer and Pandora does it. If not then teleporting around him in trickster style then switching to Dreadnought and royal guard and just cut him into pieces then burn those pieces with with Pandora's laser cannon.

No where has it been mentioned that the reaver DOESNT need to be charged outside of gameplay, that is just something you made out without any proof to make kain stronger then he is, no one trusts ur logic anyway since your a clear kain fanboy.

When the Blood-Reaver becomes a Soul-Reaver then why do they still have a charge bar if it doesnt need to be charged?

Raziels wraith blade needs to be charged as well.



Is there even reaver emblems in BO?


umm no.. If kain was as powerful as you make him, it would just screw up the entire story.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Good point there. I say Lucifer and Pandora does it. If not then teleporting around him in trickster style then switching to Dreadnought and royal guard and just cut him into pieces then burn those pieces with with Pandora's laser cannon.

Pandora is slow, hed never get any of the best weapons out in time, try and cut him only to hit a shield and then have him reform elseware, Pandora laser canon is the slowest one of all...you fail....

Originally posted by Terryc250
No where has it been mentioned that the reaver DOESNT need to be charged outside of gameplay, that is just something you made out without any proof to make kain stronger then he is, no one trusts ur logic anyway since your a clear kain fanboy.

When the Blood-Reaver becomes a Soul-Reaver then why do they still have a charge bar if it doesnt need to be charged?

Raziels wraith blade needs to be charged as well.



Is there even reaver emblems in BO?


umm no.. If kain was as powerful as you make him, it would just screw up the entire story.

Not directly mentioned but its not mentioned it has to either, so your point is moot, the logic says otherwise, and no, you simply class me as that, just like i class you as a FF fanboy, youve got no proof for your claims

gods knows why, developers too lazy to take it away, you dont charge it, its got no charge attack because the EG tentacles dont have souls inside either, thats another obvious gameplay element, the charge bar goes up even though the EG tentacles do not have souls inside, your saying a lot of BS and youve not even played the game

yeh in gameplay, dur

no reaver emblems, how do they make a diffrence? their little stones that give the reaver more powers, that doesnt mean its powersource according to you changes

the entire storey? how would it, you dont even know the story so what do you know? how would it screw up the story at all?

Originally posted by Terryc250
No where has it been mentioned that the reaver DOESNT need to be charged outside of gameplay, that is just something you made out without any proof to make kain stronger then he is, no one trusts ur logic anyway since your a clear kain fanboy.

When the Blood-Reaver becomes a Soul-Reaver then why do they still have a charge bar if it doesnt need to be charged?

Raziels wraith blade needs to be charged as well.



Is there even reaver emblems in BO?


umm no.. If kain was as powerful as you make him, it would just screw up the entire story. I see I'm not the only who don't seethe proof in B.t.'s argument.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Pandora is slow, hed never get any of the best weapons out in time, try and cut him only to hit a shield and then have him reform elseware, Pandora laser canon is the slowest one of all...you fail....



Not directly mentioned but its not mentioned it has to either, so your point is moot, the logic says otherwise, and no, you simply class me as that, just like i class you as a FF fanboy, youve got no proof for your claims

gods knows why, developers too lazy to take it away, you dont charge it, its got no charge attack because the EG tentacles dont have souls inside either, thats another obvious gameplay element, the charge bar goes up even though the EG tentacles do not have souls inside, your saying a lot of BS and youve not even played the game

yeh in gameplay, dur

no reaver emblems, how do they make a diffrence? their little stones that give the reaver more powers, that doesnt mean its powersource according to you changes

the entire storey? how would it, you dont even know the story so what do you know? how would it screw up the story at all? Pandora is slow? Have you played DMC4? Nope. I doubt Kain can regenerate from 25 pieces in like 1 second. Coz that what it takes to make the laser cannon. It's even faster in Autmatic mode. So you failed. I claimed you haven't played the game, I completed it several times now, so I know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Pandora is slow? Have you played DMC4? Nope. I doubt Kain can regenerate from 25 pieces in like 1 second. Coz that what it takes to make the laser cannon. It's even faster in Autmatic mode. So you failed. I claimed you haven't played the game, I completed it several times now, so I know what I'm talking about.

He haven't. The only his sourse is the video in RT with Dante getting said weapon. BTW, with full Disaster gauge there's like 2 dozens of auto-aimed rockets in turel mode of Pandora Box and we don't have proof Kain can dodge even one, his shield helps against arrows and spells but shield ability isn't even avaliable in Defiance.

BTW,Rewmac, Estacado, I have heard some interesting theory regarding Kain's evolution and him not having Blood Omen spells in Defiance. I wonder whether I should post it in there or tell you via PM. BT's claims sound really funny in light of that info, BTW.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Pandora is slow? Have you played DMC4? Nope. I doubt Kain can regenerate from 25 pieces in like 1 second. Coz that what it takes to make the laser cannon. It's even faster in Autmatic mode. So you failed. I claimed you haven't played the game, I completed it several times now, so I know what I'm talking about.


nope ive not, and as Devel says ive seen it when he first gets it, its not that fast at all, espcially if Kain teleports. Also he doesnt have to regenrate, its not regeneration, regeneration is when hes wounded like when his heart is torn out and not long after its nothing but a scar, thats regenration, not his scion of balance immunity.



Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
He haven't. The only his sourse is the video in RT with Dante getting said weapon. BTW, with full Disaster gauge there's like 2 dozens of auto-aimed rockets in turel mode of Pandora Box and we don't have proof Kain can dodge even one, his shield helps against arrows and spells but shield ability isn't even avaliable in Defiance.

BTW,Rewmac, Estacado, I have heard some interesting theory regarding Kain's evolution and him not having Blood Omen spells in Defiance. I wonder whether I should post it in there or tell you via PM. BT's claims sound really funny in light of that info, BTW.

indeed, and the shield is not usable in Defiance...so....the shield says all attacks, arrows like missles and bullets are still missles overall

post it in here, i want to see it as well, youve probably got some uncanon source or are taking another source the wrong way as most people do who have not played the game

Originally posted by Burning thought


Not directly mentioned but its not mentioned it has to either, so your point is moot, the logic says otherwise, and no, you simply class me as that, just like i class you as a FF fanboy, youve got no proof for your claims
When have i said something without evidence? Everything ive claimed ive provided evidence with facts, vids, or quotes from the creators.


The elder god is the hub of the wheel of fate, a cycle of birth, death and rebirth to which all souls are drawn to, its not impossible that the soul reaver can gain power from attacking it. Saying that the reason there is a charge bar is because the developers are lazy to take it away is a pretty bad excuse.


The Balance Emblem made a big difference in the reaver, without that the reaver didn't charge at all. There was no balance emblem in the BO games, thats why they didn't charge.


Foes wouldn't be foes, why would he lose to raziel the if he couldve just "dimension blitz" him? Probably because he can't just simply do that.

Originally posted by Terryc250
When have i said something without evidence? Everything ive claimed ive provided evidence with facts, vids, or quotes from the creators.


The elder god is the hub of the wheel of fate, a cycle of birth, death and rebirth to which all souls are drawn to, its not impossible that the soul reaver can gain power from attacking it. Saying that the reason there is a charge bar is because the developers are lazy to take it away is a pretty bad excuse.


The Balance Emblem made a big difference in the reaver, without that the reaver didn't charge at all. There was no balance emblem in the BO games, thats why they didn't charge.


Foes wouldn't be foes, why would he lose to raziel the if he couldve just "dimension blitz" him? Probably because he can't just simply do that.

rubbish about how Sephiroth can make anything with the lifestream for one, its a good example of how me not knowing as much as you about sephiroth can make the logic to me sound rubbish but to you with better knowlede sound okie, just like how the Reaver charge being gameplay makes sense to me

Hes the hub of the will and he uses souls, he does not neccerily have souls or a soul in his body, the reaver charging is gameplay, and no its not a bad excuse, considering the fact EG does not have a soul in each of his tentacles anyway...

they are not really foes, what are you talking about, you think kain has probelms fighting humans when even young he destroys them with ease, breaks their necks as shown in defiance and can lift them up with one arm in BO, their not foes at all, yet their Kains targets, no one in LOK is a real foe other than EG and Raziel is not a foe, kain if you knew the story needs raziel, he doesnt want to kill him and holds back throughout the fight, which brings me to another piece of proof

the NPC controlled Raziel or kain use their reaver attacks many times, sometimes in a row, which addes up as proof again that charging is just a gameplay mechanic.

Originally posted by Burning thought
rubbish about how Sephiroth can make anything with the lifestream for one, its a good example of how me not knowing as much as you about sephiroth can make the logic to me sound rubbish but to you with better knowlede sound okie, just like how the Reaver charge being gameplay makes sense to me
First of all i said its possible for Sephiroth to create materia with the lifestream, he has control over it, materia is made out of lifestream, Sephiroth is capable of transforming the planet into a vessel, logically if he can do that, he can create materia.


Do you remember the beginning of Defiance? EG was bringing out souls with his tentacles for Raziel to feed on, they are somehow connected to souls.


Humans are not foes, but they are not ants to kain either, or else the developers would not use humans, in a group they are capable of harming Kain.



No they don't, you can watch as many kain vs raziel vids and u'll never see him using the reavers abilities multiple times in a row, unless you can show me, i don't believe it.

Originally posted by Terryc250
First of all i said its possible for Sephiroth to create materia with the lifestream, he has control over it, materia is made out of lifestream, Sephiroth is capable of transforming the planet into a vessel, logically if he can do that, he can create materia.


Do you remember the beginning of Defiance? EG was bringing out souls with his tentacles for Raziel to feed on, they are somehow connected to souls.


Humans are not foes, but they are not ants to kain either, or else the developers would not use humans, in a group they are capable of harming Kain.



No they don't, you can watch as many kain vs raziel vids and u'll never see him using the reavers abilities multiple times in a row, unless you can show me, i don't believe it.

yes you said all that, and ive said the Soul reaver has an immortal soul that will only lose power after starvation over a long period of time, which no time of such number will pass in a VS

lol, he can "control" souls, yes......so....and no he was not bringing souls, when did he do that, thats something i dont remember, please show me, EG does not manipulate souls with his tentacles, he can summon them however, he controls souls

they are ants, he can lift tonne blocks, and in BO2 he can put his hand straight through an armoured mans stomach, they are ants to Young kain, let alone full powered kain....humans as stated clearly are merely things for the fledgling infant vampires to fight, humans do not have anything to harm kain with, also how the hell do you think a human is going to harm kain lol....hes faster, stronger than any of them, has a better weapon which can one hit them especially now and can survive his heart being ripped out, i know youve little knowlede on the game but please use some common sense

ill try and find one then in that case, but they do indeed, me and madmel have both experianced it...

here:

h8Hi8y3JjNs

during this video Kain and Raziel use the reaver even when their not even slashing, the player does not get to use it once and hes hitting the NPC far more, second the NPC reavers dont glow, which is the tell tale sign of in-game chargup, so their using the reaver powers randomly or over a period of time, even though their barely hitting, also take into the fact the charge bar goes down when your hit, like the player, the NPC are hit numerous times

Originally posted by Rewmac
Pandora is slow? Have you played DMC4? Nope. I doubt Kain can regenerate from 25 pieces in like 1 second. Coz that what it takes to make the laser cannon. It's even faster in Autmatic mode. So you failed. I claimed you haven't played the game, I completed it several times now, so I know what I'm talking about.
Agreed or he would just use Argument which homing missiles won't miss the target not even the Blitzes.

make it "Estacdos weak kain" VS Dante, you may as well its the only way whta your saying is valid at all, then again you wont listen to anyone who knows Kain anyway so theres nothing to debate here

Kain wins this easily

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes you said all that, and ive said the Soul reaver has an immortal soul that will only lose power after starvation over a long period of time, which no time of such number will pass in a VS
One soul does not equal soulS in which the soul reaver needs to be fully charged

He did it near the beginning of defiance, he brought out a soul with his tentacle for raziel to feed off of it, EG is connected to many souls.


No theyre not, developers arent that stupid to put ants up against the player, its nonsense, take war games for example, do you see humans fighting ants? No, they wouldnt put ants up against humans because developers arent that stupid

Why do you think in DMC they dont use humans to fight against dante? Because it would be stupid to.

If humans were ants to Kain, then the developers would use something more worthy of a fight, Kain is obviously superior to a human, but in groups, they can cause Kain harm.

AI isn't always accurate either, in most RPG's AI can spam their magic as much as they want, and they dont have MP, but that doesn't mean MP or something like MP exists, they represent the stamina of magic, just because AI can spam magic as much as they want without wasting MP, doesn't mean in reality they can spam magic without getting tired.

Originally posted by Terryc250
One soul does not equal soulS in which the soul reaver needs to be fully charged

He did it near the beginning of defiance, he brought out a soul with his tentacle for raziel to feed off of it, EG is connected to many souls.


No theyre not, developers arent that stupid to put ants up against the player, its nonsense, take war games for example, do you see humans fighting ants? No, they wouldnt put ants up against humans because developers arent that stupid

Why do you think in DMC they dont use humans to fight against dante? Because it would be stupid to.

If humans were ants to Kain, then the developers would use something more worthy of a fight, Kain is obviously superior to a human, but in groups, they can cause Kain harm.

AI isn't always accurate either, in most RPG's AI can spam their magic as much as they want, and they dont have MP, but that doesn't mean MP or something like MP exists, they represent the stamina of magic, just because AI can spam magic as much as they want without wasting MP, doesn't mean in reality they can spam magic without getting tired.

1. it does if its immortal and endless

2. he does not bring them out with tentacles, he is a ruler of souls, there is no sense whatsoever in them giving energy to the reaver if it needed it out of gameplay, which ofc it is gamepaly, not canon...the reaver does not need to charge

3. What are you rambling on about, Dante is nothing on Kain so that is irrelevent what you just said, they dont put him up against humans becaue it would not make sense in the story, and actually he does fight a human, lady is a human is she not?

the Sarafan are integral throughout the LOK story, they are not just put in the game for a challenge for kain which tehy are not, any good player of LOK knows they are nothing, and they are in the canon, thats the thing, and if you read up on it, youll find out thats what they are

they cannot cause him any real harm in canon, he sprays through their bodies with his hands and thats when their armoured, and when kain was young.....you dont know the LOK obviously which is your problem, Kain does fight other enemies, hylden and demons for example, as well as Raziel and sorcerors in the first game, not just humans....Humans are nothing to kain, probably less so than they would be nothing to Dante....Dante would be nothing to kain

4. Well thats the problem with your argument and why its shattered, the thing is theres no "real life" offfical source, only gameplay that shows the reaver needing to charge and furthermore, there are tonnes of AI happenings and other in-game examples of what ive shown you, of the gameplay changing, its only gameplay, you fail and there is no charge

1. Thats not real evidence, it can just mean that its immortal and doesnt vanish like other souls, making it require less souls to charge.

2. Again, you cannot claim it doesn't need to charge without any real evidence.

3. Dante rarely fights humans, because normal humans are no match for him, Dante is not "nothing" on kain, Kain isn't even powerful, i've yet to see kain do anything powerful enough to even harm a city.

4. Obviously there is a charge or something that represents a charge, or they wouldn't put a charge in, unless you have real evidence that there is no charge and that he can simply spam his moves whenever he wants, the point stands.

There's no "non-canon sourse", there's an explanation of facts.
Look.
1. Kain has the ability to cast various spells in his weaker incarnation- the ability to cast them was "bound" to the form he had in times of Blood Omen.
2.Kain has 1000 years to evolve between BO and Defiance.
3. Defiance Kain is a completely different being from BO one. His Defiance form is INCAPABLE of performing magic like his BO form did. He has lost his "Sence of magic" and has to rely on Soul Reaver... or, more probably, as he evolves into perfect wielder of a Reaver, he needs the Reaver to channel all his abilities.

So evolution=\=becoming skyfather level character from what we see in canon. The thing with experience etc is thrown out of the window by the fact of evolution.

And Lady is one of the easiest bosses in DMC3, she's most probably the only one human boss. And she's not "normal" human- she performs some things that aren't normal for 17years girl. She's closer to peak human definition.
And that's the only instant of Dante vs trained human warrior. Read DMC1 prequel novel- rare occasion where Dante actually deals with humans- mafia bosses etc. At the age of 16-18(!) he was the best mercenary in the city. Normal humans were no match for him eventhen. He toys with them just like he does with Lady. Lady is an exception- a stubborn girl who was good enough to keep with our young halfbreed for a little before getting her ass kicked.
As Dante becomes older, there's no more human opponents for him- even in DMC2 when he stands in the way of transnational corporation seeking world domination. And even for young Dante humans were mere annoyance- he faced 90 expert gunwielders at once and the only thing he compained afterwards is having to buy new trenchcoat instead of one ruined by 200+bullets. And that was 17years old Dante from prequel novel.

Also about Kain's physical strength. Yes, he's able to throw armoured soldiers. Armour (not tournament one, regular one of the warriors) weights no more than 40 kg, a warrior weights 70-80 kg. That makes like 120 kg. Heavier that Harley type mororbike? I don't think.

Originally posted by Terryc250
1. Thats not real evidence, it can just mean that its immortal and doesnt vanish like other souls, making it require less souls to charge.

2. Again, you cannot claim it doesn't need to charge without any real evidence.

3. Dante rarely fights humans, because normal humans are no match for him, Dante is not "nothing" on kain, Kain isn't even powerful, i've yet to see kain do anything powerful enough to even harm a city.

4. Obviously there is a charge or something that represents a charge, or they wouldn't put a charge in, unless you have real evidence that there is no charge and that he can simply spam his moves whenever he wants, the point stands.

1. no its perfect evidence, the only instance you see charging is in-game and ive shown you several occurances where its completly ridiculous and obvious that those mechanics are exactley that and not canon when the rules are broken

2. again look above

3. first Humans are no match for kain, yet he fights them, he would stomp Dante in every way possible, Harm a city? now your talking about destruction, ive yet to see Dante destroy a city

4. no obviously not, give it up terry your dragging this on because you dont want to concede and people like me and madmel who actually know about the game think its ridiculous, the charge is put in for gameplay mechanics

real evidence is just as good as gameplay, when it come down to your argument being completly based around gameplay

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
There's no "non-canon sourse", there's an explanation of facts.
Look.
1. Kain has the ability to cast various spells in his weaker incarnation- the ability to cast them was "bound" to the form he had in times of Blood Omen.
2.Kain has 1000 years to evolve between BO and Defiance.
3. Defiance Kain is a completely different being from BO one. His Defiance form is INCAPABLE of performing magic like his BO form did. He has lost his "Sence of magic" and has to rely on Soul Reaver... or, more probably, as he evolves into perfect wielder of a Reaver, he needs the Reaver to channel all his abilities.

So evolution=\=becoming skyfather level character from what we see in canon. The thing with experience etc is thrown out of the window by the fact of evolution.

And Lady is one of the easiest bosses in DMC3, she's most probably the only one human boss. And she's not "normal" human- she performs some things that aren't normal for 17years girl. She's closer to peak human definition.
And that's the only instant of Dante vs trained human warrior. Read DMC1 prequel novel- rare occasion where Dante actually deals with humans- mafia bosses etc. At the age of 16-18(!) he was the best mercenary in the city. Normal humans were no match for him eventhen. He toys with them just like he does with Lady. Lady is an exception- a stubborn girl who was good enough to keep with our young halfbreed for a little before getting her ass kicked.
As Dante becomes older, there's no more human opponents for him- even in DMC2 when he stands in the way of transnational corporation seeking world domination. And even for young Dante humans were mere annoyance- he faced 90 expert gunwielders at once and the only thing he compained afterwards is having to buy new trenchcoat instead of one ruined by 200+bullets. And that was 17years old Dante from prequel novel.

Also about Kain's physical strength. Yes, he's able to throw armoured soldiers. Armour (not tournament one, regular one of the warriors) weights no more than 40 kg, a warrior weights 70-80 kg. That makes like 120 kg. Heavier that Harley type mororbike? I don't think.

wtf is this BS? current form is unable to cast spells you say? where does it possibly say this, if youve found a real canon source of this type then show me please since this debate aside ime interested in seeing this,

1. Their still the same kain, spells dont just disapear just because youve evolved in form just like knowledge does not

2. yes so.....

3. HE simply looks completly diffrent, he remembers everything from the last one, theres no reason to belive hes lost any power in any of them or any of his spells. If youve got this from an undeniable canon source then show me for evidence and i may concede that point, unless i can explain around it

No experiance is not thrown anywhere, evolving is just something Kain does, he doesnt loose his memories and other experiances that teach him things like how to use things and how to lead an army just because he has become a more superior form, this is a ridiculous argument all together unless you have some very clever proof to back it up with

So, Humans are the easiest enemies in LOK, if not simply flies, infact most of the enemies are except maybe Demons are a tiny bit trickier....

the big ones are likely close if Kain uses both his hands, he can throw those fully armoured ones with one hand, and even those big Glyph knights that are incredibly heavey, so if he used both his arms that would increase his strength and would likely able to show better strength than Dante overall with that motorbike, Kains lifted rocks that are at least several tonnes each, how can a bike compare....

but now this is getting off-topic Dantes strength in this fight and kains are a non factor, its ranged powers and abilities that will get the job done

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. no its perfect evidence, the only instance you see charging is in-game and ive shown you several occurances where its completly ridiculous and obvious that those mechanics are exactley that and not canon when the rules are broken

2. again look above

3. first Humans are no match for kain, yet he fights them, he would stomp Dante in every way possible, Harm a city? now your talking about destruction, ive yet to see Dante destroy a city

4. no obviously not, give it up terry your dragging this on because you dont want to concede and people like me and madmel who actually know about the game think its ridiculous, the charge is put in for gameplay mechanics

real evidence is just as good as gameplay, when it come down to your argument being completly based around gameplay

1. How is that real evidence? Thats not real evidence at all, one soul does not equal many souls in which the reaver needs to be full, Raziels immortal soul can simply mean that it does not dissappear after awhile like the other souls, the reaver has been shown to charge in gameplay yes, and its never been shown to NOT charge.

Dante can destroy large structures easily, thats more of a threat to a city then Kain can do.


You cannot always use the "gameplay" excuse without real evidence that disapproves it, your reason that it doesn't require a charge is by ur theory with a ton of holes in it.

Originally posted by Terryc250
1. How is that real evidence? Thats not real evidence at all, one soul does not equal many souls in which the reaver needs to be full, Raziels immortal soul can simply mean that it does not dissappear after awhile like the other souls, the reaver has been shown to charge in gameplay yes, and its never been shown to NOT charge.

Dante can destroy large structures easily, thats more of a threat to a city then Kain can do.


You cannot always use the "gameplay" excuse without real evidence that disapproves it, your reason that it doesn't require a charge is by ur theory with a ton of holes in it.

not really, Kain has control over lighting, he could just call forth thousands of streams constantly until theres nothing left but a burning city, if its a modern city, then it wouldnt be much left considering we use a lot of Gas

A theory filled with logic however (theres no holes) that makes sense to those who played all the games like me and madmel compared to your "only gameplay" excuse which is at the same time disproven by other gameplay elements, thats what smashes your argument

A draw?

very likely mfer considering whats going on, two immortals clash, both invulerable to certain things, however from what that piece of info Debel posted, Dante is only resistent to magic, not completly immune so eventually, Kain could either harm him or bash him about, (since Dreadnought makes him invulerable anyway), kain will just have to bash Dante around, ime sure that would count as a win

Originally posted by Burning thought
not really, Kain has control over lighting, he could just call forth thousands of streams constantly until theres nothing left but a burning city, if its a modern city, then it wouldnt be much left considering we use a lot of Gas

A theory filled with logic however (theres no holes) that makes sense to those who played all the games like me and madmel compared to your "only gameplay" excuse which is at the same time disproven by other gameplay elements, thats what smashes your argument
See thats the problem with ur statements, you claim he can just do anything without any drawbacks without any proof whatsoever, you think he can just call forth thousands of lightning to destroy a city..

Your theory is not real proof, you think because Raziels soul is immortal, it can keep the reaver fully charge, when the soul reaver devours soulS to keep it fully sustained, one soul isn't enough.. and if that were true dont you think the developers wouldve taken the charge bar out? Yes it is gameplay but 99% of the time, things in gameplay represent something, like how MP represents their magic stamina, and HP represents their health, things in gameplay just arent there to make the game "difficult".

Originally posted by Terryc250
See thats the problem with ur statements, you claim he can just do anything without any drawbacks without any proof whatsoever, you think he can just call forth thousands of lightning to destroy a city..

Your theory is not real proof, you think because Raziels soul is immortal, it can keep the reaver fully charge, when the soul reaver devours soulS to keep it fully sustained, one soul isn't enough.. and if that were true dont you think the developers wouldve taken the charge bar out? Yes it is gameplay but 99% of the time, things in gameplay represent something, like how MP represents their magic stamina, and HP represents their health, things in gameplay just arent there to make the game "difficult".

Why not? The spell lightning bolt his every enemy in the area, if every enemy happened to include a every civilion in a city they would be fried, and if its a modern city, the bolts would end up causing untold damage to electrical things, flammable things etc etc

the soul reaving capabilities ARE raziel, the way you said the reaver takes souls makes it sound like you think the reaver itself i the soul devourer, when its Raziel, Raziel is never starved for souls unless mortally wounded or his physical form is destroyed.

charge bar out when? its gameplay they wouldnt take it away, otherwise you would have an even easier time....thats your guessing that the charge bar represents something, when as ive shown you, its just gameplay because many things break the rule your inventing, nothing says anywhere that it needs to charge canonically

MP does represent magic, but the number of magic points you have, is a gameplay value, you couldnt say, "sephiroth has 1000 points is over someone in another game who only has 500" simply because the gameplay statistics are diffrent, like how in FF weapons deal a lot more damage as you upgrade your character and your HP and MP gets higher, but that doesnt mean he can really take that many hits in canon for example in FF10 Tidas can have 9999 etc etc points but that is only gameplay, he cannot in canon really survive a full powered attack from certain creatures, but this is only Tidas, ime taking overall gaming.

HP is definaltey gameplay, especially when using numbers, most things are connected to game difficulty, and many of these things youve mentioned are actually mentioned in the canon as being true wheras charging is not

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why not? The spell lightning bolt his every enemy in the area, if every enemy happened to include a every civilion in a city they would be fried, and if its a modern city, the bolts would end up causing untold damage to electrical things, flammable things etc etc

the soul reaving capabilities ARE raziel, the way you said the reaver takes souls makes it sound like you think the reaver itself i the soul devourer, when its Raziel, Raziel is never starved for souls unless mortally wounded or his physical form is destroyed.

charge bar out when? its gameplay they wouldnt take it away, otherwise you would have an even easier time....thats your guessing that the charge bar represents something, when as ive shown you, its just gameplay because many things break the rule your inventing, nothing says anywhere that it needs to charge canonically

MP does represent magic, but the number of magic points you have, is a gameplay value, you couldnt say, "sephiroth has 1000 points is over someone in another game who only has 500" simply because the gameplay statistics are diffrent, like how in FF weapons deal a lot more damage as you upgrade your character and your HP and MP gets higher, but that doesnt mean he can really take that many hits in canon for example in FF10 Tidas can have 9999 etc etc points but that is only gameplay, he cannot in canon really survive a full powered attack from certain creatures, but this is only Tidas, ime taking overall gaming.

HP is definaltey gameplay, especially when using numbers, most things are connected to game difficulty, and many of these things youve mentioned are actually mentioned in the canon as being true wheras charging is not
The Soul Reaver devours souls to charge, the same way Blood Reaver devours blood to charge.

And as i said before, nothing canonically says that it doesn't need to be charged outside of gameplay.

MP respresents Magic STAMINA, as HP represents HEALTH, as HP goes up, it means your getting STRONGER, Levels represents how powerful you are getting, these things in gameplay represent something, they dont just add it in for no reason at all.

Originally posted by Terryc250
The Soul Reaver devours souls to charge, the same way Blood Reaver devours blood to charge.

And as i said before, nothing canonically says that it doesn't need to be charged outside of gameplay.

MP respresents Magic STAMINA, as HP represents HEALTH, as HP goes up, it means your getting STRONGER, Levels represents how powerful you are getting, these things in gameplay represent something, they dont just add it in for no reason at all.

ofc they dont, they add them all in for the benefit of the player and gameplay, imagine how much easier it would be (jesus LOK defiance is a easy game as it is), it would be horrible really if you could destroy these small groups of humans in a realistic slash of the reaver instead of about 7 hits, same with many games how boring it would be or annoying if in Call of duty you died in a shot, or Doom games if a single demon slash killed you, or if you killed them all in one hit, it wuld be boring ,same as if the reaver needed to charge

Originally posted by Burning thought
ofc they dont, they add them all in for the benefit of the player and gameplay, imagine how much easier it would be (jesus LOK defiance is a easy game as it is), it would be horrible really if you could destroy these small groups of humans in a realistic slash of the reaver instead of about 7 hits, same with many games how boring it would be or annoying if in Call of duty you died in a shot, or Doom games if a single demon slash killed you, or if you killed them all in one hit, it wuld be boring ,same as if the reaver needed to charge
Yes of course they exaggerate the damage quota, but thats not what i'm talking about, i'm talking about the gameplay elements representing something, like HP bar represents health, and MP bar representing magic stamina, number of levels represents getting stronger/more experienced, or the charge bar represents how much blood/souls the reaver needs to use its power, of course theyre not 100% accurate, but the still represent it, and they don't add it for no reason at all.

But obviously the Charge bar does not because it apprently goes up by hitting EG tentacles which do not have souls inside each of them, second the charge is not shown when used by NPC's which negates it again and 3rdly its a gameplay element anyway which is cut out of VS debates

either way, kain takes this with ease, he does not need the reavers powers at all to win this.......so why it was brought up other than foolery i dont know, same in the "Team supreme" thread, kain does not need to use any of the reaver powers

And apparently you can use MP absorb on wolves who cant use magic, not everything is accurate in gameplay but not everything is BS, and just because its in gameplay it doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all outside of gameplay, gameplay elements represent somethign and arent just there for no reason.

It was brought up because after you started claiming kain can use his reaver powers on a whim without any drawbacks.

but he can......as the last few pages should have tought you, the charge is only gameplay, so there is no drawback to kain using reaver powers but its pointless to argue in this thread about that, he doesnt even need the reaver

No.. the last couple pages should have taught you that not everything in gameplay is meaningless as you claim it to be =\

almost everything is, and without direct evidence it is useless, furthermore, gameplay is cut out of VS debates, so "shrug" it doest matter with way unless theres concrete evidence, so no matter whos argument is better (mine) Kains reaver is infnite simply because theres zero to say it isnt, all we know as fact is he can use reaver powers, thats all we know as fact, pretending Gameplay did not excist and it was all documentation, which is what this VS fight is

meh kain wins em both, fairly easily too

Originally posted by Burning thought
almost everything is, and without direct evidence it is useless, furthermore, gameplay is cut out of VS debates, so "shrug" it doest matter with way unless theres concrete evidence, so no matter whos argument is better (mine) Kains reaver is infnite simply because theres zero to say it isnt, all we know as fact is he can use reaver powers, thats all we know as fact, pretending Gameplay did not excist and it was all documentation, which is what this VS fight is

meh kain wins em both, fairly easily too

Common sense usually tells us that if theres a charge in gameplay, there is something similar to a charge outside of gameplay, there is nothing that states there is no charge at all outside of gameplay. Kain has no powerful feats of his own, if everything in gameplay is BS, then kains spells should be BS as well because hes never used them outside of gameplay.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Common sense usually tells us that if theres a charge in gameplay, there is something similar to a charge outside of gameplay, there is nothing that states there is no charge at all outside of gameplay. Kain has no powerful feats of his own, if everything in gameplay is BS, then kains spells should be BS as well because hes never used them outside of gameplay.

no because their documented outside of gameplay as spells he uses, and he also describes them out of gameplay in cinematics which means they excist, if theres a charge in gameplay, it means balance, just because the turn based system in FF7 means cloud has to w8 for the bar down the bottom to charge up, does not mean he does it in a real fight

Originally posted by Burning thought
no because their documented outside of gameplay as spells he uses, and he also describes them out of gameplay in cinematics which means they excist, if theres a charge in gameplay, it means balance, just because the turn based system in FF7 means cloud has to w8 for the bar down the bottom to charge up, does not mean he does it in a real fight

Turn base is a style of gameplay mechanic, and always has been for years, you have to wait a certain amount of time before you can choose what kind of attack you want, its like a strategy type fighting system, real-time fighting games, try to make it realistic thats why its real-time fighting, charging up a reaver for power still means what it is, why do you think the blood reaver devours blood for?

because its a vampiric blade, its always devoured blood since before there were even emblems to go in it....nothing in the game indicates the ancients knew there were going to be Emblems although i wouldnt put it past them, so its not like they made it especially for that purpose, its just a powerful weapon, sucking blood, and its made by vampires so its more than likely the reason, many connections to blood it has so i suppose imo it makes sense that a blade made by vamps, is likely to drink blood like vamps

Vampires devour blood as food, I didn't know the weapon needs food as well also has kain ever used his his reaver powers during a cinematic?

Two Words : Devil Trigger...

you tried to revive a thread where your argument died in, kain can do the same in one word "repel" , Kain is constantly in his devil trigger state, or at least Dante would think so when hes on the floor, luckily in this thread however he in the unrealistic occurance where hes got infnite DT and Onslaught so he is going to have to die spiritually if he wont die physically

Kain would have died in Blood Omen if he chose to
just dying would have done nothing to fix Nosgoth because the EG would still be around
i figure he'd have died because he was far from his fully evolved form as well as his role as the Scion of Balance
remember Moebius did say he saw Kain dying at some point in the future and it couldn't have been when he had the Heart of Darkness ripped out of him because that didn't happen in the original timeline

moebius sees the potential actions of characters in all timelines..its a good chance he was talking about the heart of darkness, because otherwise the time streamer would not have congratulated raziel as much as he did..we also know that there is a flaw in moebius' omniscience, and that could have affected his forsight as well..

Kain cannot die, simple as that, technically kain did die when his heart of darkness was taken, which counts, also Kain would not of died in Blood omen, if he chose to "try" and die, something in the timeline would stop him because time is immutable, theres no way he can choose to die

yes time is immutable
that's why he said he only had two choices
he could die or save himself time had forced him to choose one or the other



the original timeline was Raziel killed Kain most likely at the tomb of William the Just and then Raziel himself got sucked into the Reaver later
everything that happens after Soul Reaver 2 never originally happened

Dante pumps Kain full of Lucifer swords, and shoots him with pandora (revenge)

Dante wins

you mean Dante pumps Kains invulerable shield with those items, then Kain slashes Dante with the reaver whos energy soul blast explodes sending Dante flying, then Kain rips his soul out or drains his blood Telekinetically and gains Dantes power combined with his own just for mockeries sake

Originally posted by 123KID
yes time is immutable
that's why he said he only had two choices
he could die or save himself time had forced him to choose one or the other



the original timeline was Raziel killed Kain most likely at the tomb of William the Just and then Raziel himself got sucked into the Reaver later
everything that happens after Soul Reaver 2 never originally happened

indeed its immutable, so in reality looking at the entire story, Kain only had one choice because his actions are already written, he cannot choose the other no matter what happens

there is no original timeline, theres just one timeline overall, those times that are apprently paradoxes are not truelly, their simply written in time but Raziel could never of killed Kain, all the times Kain has died are documented, the only reason Raziel is ever thought of killing kain is because they thought Kain was the Vampire Champion and would fall to the Hylden champion (who they thought was Raziel) however it turned out Raziel was both, and kain was simply the Scion of balance

Originally posted by Burning thought
you mean Dante pumps Kains invulerable shield with those items, then Kain slashes Dante with the reaver whos energy soul blast explodes sending Dante flying, then Kain rips his soul out or drains his blood Telekinetically and gains Dantes power combined with his own just for mockeries sake
crylaugh
Now Kain can steal other characters powers.......oh and it's not like Dante couldn't send the swords inside the shield since he can control them with his mind.....oh wait you haven't even played the game but you know everything better then does who played it.....haermm

Oh wait Kain doesn't even have a shield in Defiance......

Originally posted by Estacado
crylaugh
Now Kain can steal other characters powers.......oh and it's not like Dante couldn't send the swords inside the shield since he can control them with his mind.....oh wait you haven't even played the game but you know everything better then does who played it.....haermm

Oh wait Kain doesn't even have a shield in Defiance......

well yeh as he did in Blood omen 2........
wtf BS is this? send them inside the shield that covers kains form? your getting confused like you have done in most debates with me, oh well

well ive played LOK games and i know Dante is not getting through the shield by trying to somehow mind control swords inside it, that doesnt even make sense, although ofc playing the game is not everything as youve shown by saying youve played LOK games but seem to know jack sh*t "haermm" indeed

i cba to go find some smilies and "fail" pictures so i can speak your language, id prefer to actually debate than troll however

He was stealing the powers of vampires.....
He can't control the swords with his thoughts?
How about you go and play the game?
Kain doesn't even have a shield in Defiance.

Originally posted by Estacado
He was stealing the powers of vampires.....
He can't control the swords with his thoughts?
How about you go and play the game?
Kain doesn't even have a shield in Defiance.

and Hylden, and so what if its a vampire, he stole it from Hylden which are like Demons, he stole powers from Vampires, stealing from a daft half demon, half human like Dante is going to be a piece of cake

no, explain to me HOW he will somehow control swords to go through a shield, no matter what their controlled by their going to end up stopped by Kains shield, and kain will prob just knock them out of the air with his own TK before cointueing to dimensional teleport blitz dante into the dirt

how about you go and play all the LOK games, maybe ill play DMC4 when i want to play it
Prove he does not have a shield please, prove he has lost it

When did he stole powers from hylden?
He will summon them inside the shield.........
Still you have no proof of Kain having a shield in defiance.
BTW Dante can easily handle teleporting enemies like Blitz or Frost and Pandora's box can destroy any cloack/shield(special attack you get it at gunslinger lvl 4 Dante opens pandora and every shield/cloack will be destroyed) also he has dreadnaught so Kain's attacks won't do much....

Originally posted by Estacado
When did he stole powers from hylden?
He will summon them inside the shield.........
Still you have no proof of Kain having a shield in defiance.
BTW Dante can easily handle teleporting enemies like Blitz or Frost and Pandora's box can destroy any cloack/shield(special attack you get it at gunslinger lvl 4 Dante opens pandora and every shield/cloack will be destroyed) also he has dreadnaught so Kain's attacks won't do much....

the Hylden Witch, he drank from her veins giving him her TK powers

thats where your wrong, there is no inside the shield, are you assuming its a bubble all this time?

I dont need it, he is the same kain only more evolved from Blood omen 1

Blitz and frost, show me please, Kain will just keep teleporting from diffrent sides, in a shield that dante will likely be too slow to activate this pandora box thing on if its true and every hit Dante tries on kain, will end up harming him due to Chaos armour, if kain doesnt have Chaos armour, he can still do as i said, blood shower, emptey dante of blood and gain Dantes powers anyway, then throttle him even more so

Dreadnought will make his body invulerable, but not untouchable, he can still be thrown, buried etc etc, just like Kain can. And show me this attack that defeats all shields and cloaks, if its like most pandora items, slow, then its worthless

I'm going with Dante.

Kain wins.

indeed, easily too

Kain gets slaughtered in less than a minute.

Kain wins

Dante can't counter TK so Kain holds him in the TK Shackles and impales him thus devouring his soul into the Purified Soul Reaver.
Night night, loser.
God DMC is such a stupid series.

BTs version of Kain rapes everyone in fiction, and in the real world too... While sleeping.

The real/canonical version of Kain, gets raped like the little ***** he is, and we all rejoice.

BT i just realized something. The site you provided for Kain spells. It says it unofficial. Doesn't it mean it was created by fanboys and just fans of the series. I seen alot of other unofficial sites and they seem to hype of the characters abilities.

Originally posted by SHM
BTs version of Kain rapes everyone in fiction, and in the real world too... While sleeping.

The real/canonical version of Kain, gets raped like the little ***** he is, and we all rejoice.


lmao? your calling me a fanboy? YOU? how sad....how very sad, problem is, you keep sying the "real/canonical" Kain when its the very version I use, unfortatley for you for bad debating skills you can never debate against me anyway so thats prob why you rant like this to try and cover up your insercurities

Originally posted by Csdabest
BT i just realized something. The site you provided for Kain spells. It says it unofficial. Doesn't it mean it was created by fanboys and just fans of the series. I seen alot of other unofficial sites and they seem to hype of the characters abilities.


If you read everything on the Dark chronicle you will find that the people who make it are in massive contact with all the LOK designers, both from a long time ago and new (the site is not young), If you dont want to belive anything on the site I dont really care anyway, also look on the official site of LOK defiance, they give a list of all connected sites, Dark chronicle I belive is among them, I can persoally say and Ime sure so can anyone whos played the games can connect to all the material on the site from spells and abilities to character lore.