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Luke Cage spends 1 year intensive training with Captain America then takes on Abomination, who wins?

ABOM.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
ABOM.

Bah!

Give Cage the year training and a 25 ton powerup and hed beat Abom.

I agree with Jrod... with a substantial power-up and training, he'd have a chance against the Abomination.

The way this fight is set up though.... it doesn't look good for his baby momma and lil Cagey.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Give Cage the year training and a 25 ton powerup and hed beat Abom.

Bro i dont think that after a years training he would still be 25 tons. I can see him probably reaching 35.

Its not just a years training its a years intensive training so basically hes going eat, sleep and drink martial arts day and night.

Even at his current level he has been able to oneshot Ironclad and Doc Samson (bad showing but not impossible).

Abom would slaughter Cage.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Abom would slaughter Cage.

I think Jrod was hinting at a 25-ton boost to Cage's current level of strength.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I think Jrod was hinting at a 25-ton boost to Cage's current level of strength.

Yes I know, the point im making is that 1 years tarining would boost his 25 ton strength. Some superhumans do workout for example US Agent he is classified as class 10 but we can assume some of that strength comes from working out and not just augmentation.

So Luke after a year would probably not be 50 tons but I can see him reaching 35 tons.

I dont think that training with cap would make him much stronger. I think 99% of the training with Cap would be on technique and MA's anyways. I was hinting to a power boost for Cage.

I think that he needs to be much stronger to beat Abom. Even if hes trained with Cap for a year.

I say give Cage the training and team him with Strong Guy and they Beat Abom.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont think that training with cap would make him much stronger. I think 99% of the training with Cap would be on technique and MA's anyways. I was hinting to a power boost for Cage.

Why would it when a major part of martial arts training involevs increasing your strength, durability and stamina?

Originally posted by jrodslam

I think that he needs to be much stronger to beat Abom. Even if hes trained with Cap for a year.

Ok but even at his current level he has been able to take down Doc Samson and Ironclad.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I say give Cage the training and team him with Strong Guy and they Beat Abom.

Well that would do it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Why would it when a major part of martial arts training involevs increasing your strength, durability and stamina?

Well i dont think ma's really involves increasing your strength moreso than pure weightlifting. Ma's imo is more about focusing, awareness, speed and effectiveness without strain. Most of the high ma's dont have to worry bout being strong nor being hit much and would rather bepend on their skills.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but even at his current level he has been able to take down Doc Samson and Ironclad.

And Doc and Iron Clad arent far away from him in terms of strength. Iron Clad isnt as experienced either.

Abom would still win. He goes toe to toe with the Hulk. Not even this version of Luke Cage could do that.

Abom

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well i dont think ma's really involves increasing your strength moreso than pure weightlifting. Ma's imo is more about focusing, awareness, speed and effectiveness without strain. Most of the high ma's dont have to worry bout being strong nor being hit much and would rather bepend on their skills.

All the high Mas do training to increase their strength eventhought they can take out much stronger opponents. In the real world mas may not use weights but they would do some exercises to incraese their strength. Cap does weights and so does the US Agent, why wouldnt Luke do strength training. Remember hes spending a year with Cap not just learning some techniques.


Originally posted by jrodslam

And Doc and Iron Clad arent far away from him in terms of strength. Iron Clad isnt as experienced either.

Wrong on both accounts. Doc Samson has been refered to as having Hulk level strength thats means hes more than twice as stronga s him. Ironclad is class 60, has been around for awhile and actually has hand-to-hand abilities.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
All the high Mas do training to increase their strength eventhought they can take out much stronger opponents. In the real world mas may not use weights but they would do some exercises to incraese their strength. Cap does weights and so does the US Agent, why wouldnt Luke do strength training. Remember hes spending a year with Cap not just learning some techniques.

All the high ma's dont rely on strength, yet they still take out stronger opponents. Dont get me wrong, they probably do do some weight lifting, but they dont lift in order to build muscle mass and higher strength. Cap does weights cause hes built to be better than a normal human. He benches over 1,000 lbs. Same as USAgent. DD, IF, Shang, and others hardly weight lift to gain muscle mass and strength. They focus more on technique, agility and speed.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wrong on both accounts. Doc Samson has been refered to as having Hulk level strength thats means hes more than twice as stronga s him. Ironclad is class 60, has been around for awhile and actually has hand-to-hand abilities.

Not sure where you get your info, but unless Doc got a massive strength upgrade, hes doesnt have Hulk level of strength. He never has imo. Yea, hes hung with Hulk in fights, but hes not Hulk level in terms of strength. And like i said, Iron clad may be 60cl, but hes no where near as experienced as Cage, so i wouldnt put it past cage to best him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
All the high ma's dont rely on strength, yet they still take out stronger opponents. Dont get me wrong, they probably do do some weight lifting, but they dont lift in order to build muscle mass and higher strength. Cap does weights cause hes built to be better than a normal human. He benches over 1,000 lbs. Same as USAgent. DD, IF, Shang, and others hardly weight lift to gain muscle mass and strength. They focus more on technique, agility and speed.

Anyway they all do strength training right? DD can use 400Lbs like a bo staff I dont care what reasons you think he does strength training he does strength training. Therefore Luke would as well, hell even Thing uses weights.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Not sure where you get your info, but unless Doc got a massive strength upgrade, hes doesnt have Hulk level of strength. He never has imo. Yea, hes hung with Hulk in fights, but hes not Hulk level in terms of strength.

I think that means Hulk level baseline 70 tons. Luke pawned him.

Originally posted by jrodslam

And like i said, Iron clad may be 60cl, but hes no where near as experienced as Cage, so i wouldnt put it past cage to best him.

I dont know about him being hugely more experienced than Luke you know. Ironclad has been around. You also ahve to take into account eventhough Luke is class25 his skin is tougher so when he punches it does more damage than other people of his strength class. Its like a class25 with knuckledusters. Experience alone does not explain why Luke took him out so easily.

Luke has also brawled with Orca as well. Orca has been described was having class80 strength.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Bro i dont think that after a years training he would still be 25 tons. I can see him probably reaching 35.

Its not just a years training its a years intensive training so basically hes going eat, sleep and drink martial arts day and night.

Even at his current level he has been able to oneshot Ironclad and Doc Samson (bad showing but not impossible).

What's Cage's lift right now? Was a time he lifted about 3 tons and he looked in good shape. How do you figure doing the Captain America workout will have him lifting 25 or 35 tons? How is doing intense weight training going to multiply his strength by ten times? If I can lift 200 pounds, great. I can lift weights and do the Captain America workout til hell freezes over and I'm never gonna lift two thousand pounds.

Anyway, Abomination is 100 tons at least. Cage isn't even in his league and never will be without a major power boost and just doing more pushups and weight training alone cannot explain that. The Cap workout isn't going to make him enough stronger and the martial workout is fine except his opponent still would have twenty times his strength. Hell, even the Chuck Norris workout with Stephen Seagal's attitude wouldn't win this one.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
What's Cage's lift right now? Was a time he lifted about 3 tons and he looked in good shape. How do you figure doing the Captain America workout will have him lifting 25 or 35 tons? How is doing intense weight training going to multiply his strength by ten times? If I can lift 200 pounds, great. I can lift weights and do the Captain America workout til hell freezes over and I'm never gonna lift two thousand pounds.

Anyway, Abomination is 100 tons at least. Cage isn't even in his league and never will be without a major power boost and just doing more pushups and weight training alone cannot explain that. The Cap workout isn't going to make him enough stronger and the martial workout is fine except his opponent still would have twenty times his strength. Hell, even the Chuck Norris workout with Stephen Seagal's attitude wouldn't win this one.


You do know that Luke has had an upgrade and is currently class 25?

*bump*

Abom wins in a horribly and easily. Poor Cage, he hopes to be a skrull and have a better shot at this.

Originally posted by Bentley
Abom wins in a horribly and easily. Poor Cage, he hopes to be a skrull and have a better shot at this.

Hes going to beat him eventhough Luke has the tools to take him down?

Why? Does Cage has Hulk's power now?

Originally posted by Bentley
Why? Does Cage has Hulk's power now?

After 1 years training hes going to be stronger and more durable and alot faster. He will most likely be able to dodge Abom all day and then take him down with carefully concentrated strikes.

Currently Luke has:

One shoted Doc Samson who has taken on a mindless Hulk
One shoted Ironclad who has gone against Hulk before
Taken shots from Orca and took him down with some help from BK probably didnt need it.

The point is after 1 years intensive training he will be alot tougher and does not need brute strength to take him down but skill and speed.

Hawkeye has been trained by Cap for years and I have not seen enough improvement to assume Cage would be all that much stronger after one year with him.

Abomination ftw

Originally posted by Bentley
Hawkeye has been trained by Cap for years and I have not seen enough improvement to assume Cage would be all that much stronger after one year with him.

Ok so before that Hawkeye had class 25 strength and one shoted Doc Samson?

Furthermore hes not just being trained by Cap. Luke is going to be a monk hes going to eat, sleep and drink ma for 1 yr straight. Thats not the level of intensity that Cap trained Hawkeye.

Hawkeye cannot take on Luke Cage hand to hand, and the difference between their strenghts is about 25 tons. Now, the Abomination doubles that difference.

You are assuming that Luke is good at learning martial arts, and that he will reach a level rivaling that of Cap in one year. Thats bull. Batman trained for several years with the best masters in the world and he only reached to the level he has. Don't give Cage credit he has not earned.

In MA, pressure points are everything. Mantis has hurt Thor with pressure points and she's over 100 times weaker (probably over 1000 times weaker). Wolverine has koed Thing with a pressure point kick to the face. I can go on. So this fight depends on how well Cage learns about pressure points from Cap (in combination to dodging and countering).
Sometimes people are idiots and you can't teach them anything (or it takes a very long time). And sometimes people are very competent learners and learn very fast. I don't know how smart Cage is or how fast he can learn but if he learns well enough from Cap in a year then he definitely has a chance to beat Abom (through pressure point only).
Now increasing his strength to 35tons isn't really needed since lesser strength beings have many times koed much stronger beings in comics. So I think 25tons of pressure point striking is enough to greatly effect Abom. Never underestimate the power of pressure points in comics.

P.S. Can cage withstand a thunderclap? If so then what about multiple thunderclaps? If not then he loses here unless he brings his ear thingies (I forgot what you call them, you know the things that go in your ear to reduce sound?)

Originally posted by Bentley
Hawkeye cannot take on Luke Cage hand to hand, and the difference between their strenghts is about 25 tons. Now, the Abomination doubles that difference.

Ok do you see where I said prior to his training he has one shoted Doc Samson who has fought Mindless Hulk who is more powerful than Abom.

Originally posted by Bentley

You are assuming that Luke is good at learning martial arts, and that he will reach a level rivaling that of Cap in one year.

Awww man this is gonna be tough.

1. No im not assuming he will be as good as Cap im assuming that he will be alot better than already is
2. Hes already an expert street fighter and intelligent thats not going to help him get alot better.
3. He doesnt need to be as good as Cap he class 25. What part of he oneshoted Doc Samson dont you get?

Originally posted by Bentley

Thats bull. Batman trained for several years with the best masters in the world and he only reached to the level he has. Don't give Cage credit he has not earned.

Well considering that im not assuming hes going to be as good as Batman or Cap, I dont know what n earth you are talking about.





Originally posted by h1a8
In MA, pressure points are everything. Mantis has hurt Thor with pressure points and she's over 100 times weaker (probably over 1000 times weaker). Wolverine has koed Thing with a pressure point kick to the face. I can go on. So this fight depends on how well Cage learns about pressure points from Cap (in combination to dodging and countering).
Sometimes people are idiots and you can't teach them anything (or it takes a very long time). And sometimes people are very competent learners and learn very fast. I don't know how smart Cage is or how fast he can learn but if he learns well enough from Cap in a year then he definitely has a chance to beat Abom (through pressure point only).
Now increasing his strength to 35tons isn't really needed since lesser strength beings have many times koed much stronger beings in comics. So I think 25tons of pressure point striking is enough to greatly effect Abom. Never underestimate the power of pressure points in comics.

P.S. Can cage withstand a thunderclap? If so then what about multiple thunderclaps? If not then he loses here unless he brings his ear thingies (I forgot what you call them, you know the things that go in your ear to reduce sound?)

Yes considering that hes taken shots from Ironclad and Orca and thats prior to his training, in fact he could probably take several.

How long was Doc Samson's hair at the time? That greatly changes that feat.

Originally posted by The Fake Macoy
How long was Doc Samson's hair at the time? That greatly changes that feat.

It was long. I think the hair thing was retconned.

Samson battled the Hulk pretty good in the earlier days and has been used as a baseball bat ever since. I have comics where Cage couldnt even hurt the Hulk and was pretty much embarrassed by even the Thing.

Give him 10 years of Martial Arts training and he still isnt taking down Abomination.

Abomination FTW

Originally posted by tkitna
Samson battled the Hulk pretty good in the earlier days and has been used as a baseball bat ever since. I have comics where Cage couldnt even hurt the Hulk and was pretty much embarrassed by even the Thing.

Give him 10 years of Martial Arts training and he still isnt taking down Abomination.

Right and this comic where he couldnt take the Thing was before his upgrade....have you even read any of the posts?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Right and this comic where he couldnt take the Thing was before his upgrade....have you even read any of the posts?

Yeah, i've read them and no matter how many excuses you come up with or how hard you wish or hope,,,,,,Cage still loses.

Originally posted by tkitna
Yeah, i've read them and no matter how many excuses you come up with or how hard you wish or hope,,,,,,Cage still loses.

Do you understand the irrelevance of giving an example of Cage losing to Thing prior to his uprgrade, when during his upgrade his fought people who have a similar strength level to Thing.

Again examples:

1. ONE SHOTED, Ironclad who has fought Savage Hulk on numerous ocassions
2. Took a shot from Orca who is class 80 and it didnt even particulary bother him.
3. Why are we also assuming that Doc is a wimp now when hes sent an amped Professor Hulk flying with one punch.
http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38285jg.gif
4. Hell current Luke could probably get some wins over Thing. Look how much damage he can take, and this didnt even hurt him.

http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=63768_WWH_FL_2_0007_122_440lo.JPG
http://img138.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=63771_WWH_FL_2_0008_122_413lo.JPG

Luke Cage is not getting that much better in one year, its impossible for him to win this, let it go.

Also, Abomination can thunderclap one hundred times in a row for example and Cage won't be getting closer.

Originally posted by Bentley
Luke Cage is not getting that much better in one year, its impossible for him to win this, let it go.

1. Dont tell me what to do.
2. Hes already an expert street fighter even prior to his upgrade he was able to hurt Wonder Man using dirty tactics, whats an upgraded Luke gonna do after a year with Cap, he will be third tier. He will know weak points to strike and at his strength level will be able to KO him
3. I dont know how much better hes going to be exactly but hes going to be alot better after a year.

Originally posted by Bentley

Also, Abomination can thunderclap one hundred times in a row for example and Cage won't be getting closer.

Luke and Iron Fist fought Hulk once they were dodging him all day. Luke isnt going to stand there and be thunderclapped especially when he knows that Abom might do that.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
1. Dont tell me what to do.
2. Hes already an expert street fighter even prior to his upgrade he was able to hurt Wonder Man using dirty tactics, whats an upgraded Luke gonna do after a year with Cap, he will be third tier. He will know weak points to strike and at his strength level will be able to KO him
3. I dont know how much better hes going to be exactly but hes going to be alot better after a year.



Luke and Iron Fist fought Hulk once they were dodging him all day. Luke isnt going to stand there and be thunderclapped especially when he knows that Abom might do that.

1.- Sorry, you're right, I was out of place. I suggest you to let it go.

2.- He did not hurt Wonderman, he managed to "stay consious" in his own words.

3.- Show me any proof of Cage being an adept student or having discipline to learn MA.

4.- IF and Cage dodged a Hulk that was fighting like an idiot and did not thunderclap. Thunderclaps are sound waves that go in every direction, Luke ain't dodging that -in close range anyways.

Originally posted by Bentley

2.- He did not hurt Wonderman, he managed to "stay consious" in his own words.

Your not trying are you? You dont have to be KOed to be hurt for god sake. The point is Wonder Man is class 95 and Luke had 3 ton strength. Understand what im saying?

Originally posted by Bentley

3.- Show me any proof of Cage being an adept student or having discipline to learn MA.

Please for the love of god make an effort. He is already an expert at streetfighting with years of experience and before you tell me thats different to ma, of course it is but obvoulsy thats going to help alot and hes being taught by one of the best teachers for a year, of course hes going to be much better. Not as good as Cap but he will at least be third tier.

Originally posted by Bentley

4.- IF and Cage dodged a Hulk that was fighting like an idiot and did not thunderclap. Thunderclaps are sound waves that go in every direction, Luke ain't dodging that -in close range anyways.

Right so what you're telling me is that BECAUSE they were able to dodge him he was fighting like an idiot? Right ok so if Luke has any good showings against other people are you going to keep coming up with a "he was fighting like an idiot"? Hell Luke has good showings against Spiderman, was Spiderman fighting like an idiot as well?

You cannot even assume that Abom is going to use the thudnerclap for starters both Hulk and Abom dont always even use it. It could be argued that Luke can dodge it since he knows its an attack that Abom will use and he doent go to far away. When I mean dodge I mean get behind him.

P.S. Sorry if im a bit rude but your winding me up. I'll try to be a bit more polite in my next post.

First of all, no problem for the possible rudeness, I sometimes go a little far myself.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Your not trying are you? You dont have to be KOed to be hurt for god sake. The point is Wonder Man is class 95 and Luke had 3 ton strength. Understand what im saying?



I'm not saying he needs to be KOed, I'm saying Wonderman suffered no damage at all, he is made of ions, he was being pushed around but thats because he doesn't weight a ton. Can you really say he was damaged in the battle? That if Luke kept going and WM failed to score a KO he would have fallen? I think thats open to interpretation


Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Please for the love of god make an effort. He is already an expert at streetfighting with years of experience and before you tell me thats different to ma, of course it is but obvoulsy thats going to help alot and hes being taught by one of the best teachers for a year, of course hes going to be much better. Not as good as Cap but he will at least be third tier.



He may be better, I argue that he won't improve enough. Simply put, Cage is already partner with one of the best martial artists in the MU, and I don't see that he picked many moves. If you think that he can, but show no proof, thats your interpretation of the character, for me one year is just a stretch.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Right so what you're telling me is that BECAUSE they were able to dodge him he was fighting like an idiot? Right ok so if Luke has any good showings against other people are you going to keep coming up with a "he was fighting like an idiot"? Hell Luke has good showings against Spiderman, was Spiderman fighting like an idiot as well?

You cannot even assume that Abom is going to use the thudnerclap for starters both Hulk and Abom dont always even use it. It could be argued that Luke can dodge it since he knows its an attack that Abom will use and he doent go to far away. When I mean dodge I mean get behind him.

P.S. Sorry if im a bit rude but your winding me up. I'll try to be a bit more polite in my next post.

No, he was fighting like an idiot because he was freaking Savage Hulk, he DOES fight like an idiot. The important thing here is that he did not use a thunderclap, which is important in this battle.

In this forum we fight without CIS -character induced stupidity-, which means Abomination will fight his best to win the battle. The thunderclap is in his powerset and its a great weapon against Cage, he simply can't win against it, it goes to every direction if Cage is near, and Cage needs to be near to win, Abom can jump long distances and just keep away from Cage wearing him down and then score him with an aerial thunderclap or whatever -how is he going to get behind him in the air?.

Cage hurting Wonderman is PIS if anything. Besides that, the current WM is a Skrull anyways. I've never seen a character get punked so bad ever.

Regardless, this is supid. Your the only person here thats taking Cage in this match. Just go to sleep already, and feel content that your right and everybody else is wrong.

(although deep down, you know you have failed, but you just cant let it go)

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Do you understand the irrelevance of giving an example of Cage losing to Thing prior to his uprgrade, when during his upgrade his fought people who have a similar strength level to Thing.

Again examples:

1. ONE SHOTED, Ironclad who has fought Savage Hulk on numerous ocassions
2. Took a shot from Orca who is class 80 and it didnt even particulary bother him.
3. Why are we also assuming that Doc is a wimp now when hes sent an amped Professor Hulk flying with one punch.
http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38285jg.gif
4. Hell current Luke could probably get some wins over Thing. Look how much damage he can take, and this didnt even hurt him.

http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=63768_WWH_FL_2_0007_122_440lo.JPG
http://img138.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=63771_WWH_FL_2_0008_122_413lo.JPG

I think you are stepping over the line when you say that the current cage can beat Thing. Please retract that or prepare to lose credibility.
Also sending someone flying who weighs less than a ton isn't really a strength feat. Hulk's feet are not glued to the ground. Thus it is not a shock for anyone who can lift over 5 tons to send him flying.

The only way for Cage to win is through pressure points. This is because, without the use of pressure points, 35tons is not going to hurt Abom much. This is what you should be arguing only.
Note: Abom>>>Iron Clad or Doc Samson

Thunderclaps effect the ear drums so someone taking one is different than them taking a punch. Abom can keep thunderclapping till the cows come home. It is up to Cage to not just be effected by them but
he must try to penetrate to Abom in their wakes (because the thunderclaps are pushing him back).

Note: You must question whether certain feats are PIS before you post them. Just because it happened in comics doesn't mean it is valid on this forum.

Luke Cage simply can't hit A-bomb hard enough even with tons of expert H2H training. A-bomb has routinely takin' blows from Hulk. Cage's striking power simply cannot match this.

The only way Cage wins is if he has the same gun Red Hulk used to kill Emil.

Originally posted by Bentley


I'm not saying he needs to be KOed, I'm saying Wonderman suffered no damage at all, he is made of ions, he was being pushed around but thats because he doesn't weight a ton. Can you really say he was damaged in the battle? That if Luke kept going and WM failed to score a KO he would have fallen? I think thats open to interpretation


Bro WM was doubled over! 3 tons 95 tons you get my point?


Originally posted by Bentley

He may be better, I argue that he won't improve enough. Simply put, Cage is already partner with one of the best martial artists in the MU, and I don't see that he picked many moves. If you think that he can, but show no proof, thats your interpretation of the character, for me one year is just a stretch.

There is a differnce between learning from somebody and being somebodies partner. IF hasnt actively sat down and taught him anything. How many people are teamates with Cap and havent learnt anything, are they stupid to? People watch footbal games all their life and are still crap at football, watching and doing are two different things.

He already is a self taught street fighter and hes going to eat sleep and drink H2H combat with Cap. What do you mean he may be better? You know hes been leader of the New Avengers, why did you think that happened because he was stupid?


Originally posted by Bentley

No, he was fighting like an idiot because he was freaking Savage Hulk, he DOES fight like an idiot. The important thing here is that he did not use a thunderclap, which is important in this battle.

What part of Savage Hulk has fought Abom many times arent you getting?

Originally posted by Bentley

In this forum we fight without CIS -character induced stupidity-, which means Abomination will fight his best to win the battle. The thunderclap is in his powerset and its a great weapon against Cage, he simply can't win against it, it goes to every direction if Cage is near, and Cage needs to be near to win, Abom can jump long distances and just keep away from Cage wearing him down and then score him with an aerial thunderclap or whatever -how is he going to get behind him in the air?.


Wrong CIS is not exempt from debates. Dont believe me check the rules.


Originally posted by tkitna
Cage hurting Wonderman is PIS if anything. Besides that, the current WM is a Skrull anyways. I've never seen a character get punked so bad ever.

Regardless, this is supid. Your the only person here thats taking Cage in this match. Just go to sleep already, and feel content that your right and everybody else is wrong.

(although deep down, you know you have failed, but you just cant let it go)

Well for starters im not talking about current WM am I. So you dont know what your talking about. If you think WM getting hurt in the testicles by someone with low superhuman strength is PIS, then fine.



Originally posted by h1a8
I think you are stepping over the line when you say that the current cage can beat Thing. Please retract that or prepare to lose credibility.


Im not retracting anything. I said I think he can get SOME WINS. Again if Luke Cage can ONE SHOT Ironclad a guy who has fought the Hulk many times before he can get SOME WINS over Thing. Thats stepping over the line??

Originally posted by h1a8

Also sending someone flying who weighs less than a ton isn't really a strength feat. Hulk's feet are not glued to the ground. Thus it is not a shock for anyone who can lift over 5 tons to send him flying.

He may weigh less than a ton but he still has superhuman strength thats why he doesnt always go flying. Furthermore thats Professor Hulk who is stronger than Savage Hulk and that Hulk was amped by implants.

Originally posted by h1a8

The only way for Cage to win is through pressure points. This is because, without the use of pressure points, 35tons is not going to hurt Abom much. This is what you should be arguing only.

Dont tell me what I should be arguing. You tried to tell me what to do in the Hollywood (with power gem) vs SMP thread and you ended up not knowing what you were talking about. All my points are legit.

Originally posted by h1a8

Note: Abom>>>Iron Clad or Doc Samson

Ok let me break this down for you. Both Doc and Ironclad have fought the Hulk who is actually stronger than Abom. He one shoted them. One shot one punch, It can damn well be argued that with intense ma training he can take down Abom....get it????

Originally posted by h1a8

Thunderclaps effect the ear drums so someone taking one is different than them taking a punch. Abom can keep thunderclapping till the cows come home. It is up to Cage to not just be effected by them but
he must try to penetrate to Abom in their wakes (because the thunderclaps are pushing him back).

Yes I know but thunderclaps are not going to hurt if you're standing behind them.

Originally posted by h1a8

Note: You must question whether certain feats are PIS before you post them. Just because it happened in comics doesn't mean it is valid on this forum.

No but it sux when everytime I come up with a legit feat people scream PIS. Furthermore you are in no position to give me advice when in the Superman vs SS thread you kept denying feats.

Look, if your hope for Luke Cage winning is clinging into CIS, fine. But with the Abomination powerset beating your Cage is routine.

Also, Thunderclaps are sound and they hit even if you are behind then. Sounds travels faster by solids -the abomination body- than through the air, going behind the Abom when thunderclapping is suicidal.

Originally posted by Bentley
Look, if your hope for Luke Cage winning is clinging into CIS, fine. But with the Abomination powerset beating your Cage is routine.


Well CIS is allowed. *shrug*

Originally posted by Bentley

Also, Thunderclaps are sound and they hit even if you are behind then. Sounds travels faster by solids -the abomination body- than through the air, going behind the Abom when thunderclapping is suicidal.

Bro when Hulk does a tunderclap it doesnt do any damage to the obkects behind it,a nd even if it did it probably wouldnt hurt Luke.

Yeah because you are thinking about the shockwave which is made of air pressure, I'm talking about the sound which is the thing that will mess up Cage in this match.

Originally posted by Bentley
Yeah because you are thinking about the shockwave which is made of air pressure, I'm talking about the sound which is the thing that will mess up Cage in this match.

Bro the sound is partially what makes the air pressure. Of course you can hear the shockwave but if your standing behind it, its going to do considerably less damage, if the shockwave cant even destory buildings behind it, whats it gonna do to Luke?

They shockwave cannot destroy buildings thats precisely why the sound is going to be the big factor, not the air pull. The sound will travel with the air thats pushed by the sound wave because its easier to travel there, but in the area that is not moved by the shockwave it just moves as easy.

Luke is going to get his ears damaged by the sound, which is the bigger damage factor in the thunderclap -air-pressure amounts to that of an explosion, way weaker than Abom's regular punchs-, the sound does not rise enough to destroy a building, but it messes with the internal hearing, causing pain, lose of balance and of course, the old unconsiousness. Lack of physical destruction is not equal to harmless soundwave.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone





Im not retracting anything. I said I think he can get SOME WINS. Again if Luke Cage can ONE SHOT Ironclad a guy who has fought the Hulk many times before he can get SOME WINS over Thing. Thats stepping over the line??

Wrong! You shouldn't think that he can get any wins against Thing. I don't care what he did to Ironclad. Thing is not Ironclad.

And one shotting someone who has fought Hulk doesn't show that he can get some wins against Thing. ABC logic is faulty. Captain America has fought Hulk several times too. Doesn't mean that if Cage one-shot him that he can beat Thing. Spider-man has fought Hulk also (but I seriously don't think Cage can one-shotted him even with a good hit).



So someone having superhuman strength actually prevents them from flying away by someone weaker who can lift more than your body weight? Come on now! You are really using faulty reasoning here. If I can lift 75 tons then I can easily hit a half ton object away, no matter how strong they are. This is because their strength doesn't effect their inertia (mass). So as long as their feet aren't glue to the ground then I can send them flying in the air with ease.



If you think that Cage with 35ton strength can ko Abom without hitting him in a vital area then you are a straight fool.




How is Doc or Ironclad stronger than Abom? Where are you getting your facts from? If you meant that both Doc and Ironclad combined are stronger than Abom then I still fail to see how one-shotting either of them shows he can hurt Abom. For Cage didn't one-shotted their combined beings now did he.




Why not? Don't sound waves move omnidirectional?


PIS exists nonetheless. I denied your scan feats because they were invalid. Darthgoober actually showed me valid ones that made me sway some.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong! You shouldn't think that he can get any wins against Thing. I don't care what he did to Ironclad. Thing is not Ironclad.

And one shotting someone who has fought Hulk doesn't show that he can get some wins against Thing. ABC logic is faulty. Captain America has fought Hulk several times too. Doesn't mean that if Cage one-shot him that he can beat Thing. Spider-man has fought Hulk also (but I seriously don't think Cage can one-shotted him even with a good hit).



So someone having superhuman strength actually prevents them from flying away by someone weaker who can lift more than your body weight? Come on now! You are really using faulty reasoning here. If I can lift 75 tons then I can easily hit a half ton object away, no matter how strong they are. This is because their strength doesn't effect their inertia (mass). So as long as their feet aren't glue to the ground then I can send them flying in the air with ease.





If you think that Cage with 35ton strength can ko Abom without hitting him in a vital area then you are a straight fool.




How is Doc or Ironclad stronger than Abom? Where are you getting your facts from? If you meant that both Doc and Ironclad combined are stronger than Abom then I still fail to see how one-shotting either of them shows he can hurt Abom. For Cage didn't one-shotted their combined beings now did he.




Why not? Don't sound waves move omnidirectional?


PIS exists nonetheless. I denied your scan feats because they were invalid. Darthgoober actually showed me valid ones that made me sway some.

Unbelievable, i actually agree wit dis totally

Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong! You shouldn't think that he can get any wins against Thing. I don't care what he did to Ironclad. Thing is not Ironclad.

The whole point is that Ironcald has similar stats to Thing.

Originally posted by h1a8

And one shotting someone who has fought Hulk doesn't show that he can get some wins against Thing. ABC logic is faulty. Captain America has fought Hulk several times too. Doesn't mean that if Cage one-shot him that he can beat Thing.

Bro your logic is terrible. Cap used skill and speed to fight Hulk. Ironclad used strength and durability to fight Hulk. You dont need superhuman strength to KO Cap but you do need superhuman strength to one shot Ironclad. See the difference? The point is being made that Abom is too strong for Cage, but if Cage can one-shot a person that is capable of gving him a good fight prior to his training that means he could possibly KO Abom with MA.

Originally posted by h1a8

Spider-man has fought Hulk also (but I seriously don't think Cage can one-shotted him even with a good hit).

Well actually hes one shoted Green Goblin who has similar durability and strength to Spiderman, so you're wrong there.

Originally posted by h1a8

So someone having superhuman strength actually prevents them from flying away by someone weaker who can lift more than your body weight? Come on now! You are really using faulty reasoning here. If I can lift 75 tons then I can easily hit a half ton object away, no matter how strong they are. This is because their strength doesn't effect their inertia (mass). So as long as their feet aren't glue to the ground then I can send them flying in the air with ease.

Right so please explain for us why all the 100s of times that Hulk has been hit by class 100s he hasnt gone flying.


Originally posted by h1a8

If you think that Cage with 35ton strength can ko Abom without hitting him in a vital area then you are a straight fool.

Ok show me where I said that. Havent I stated already that he needs to use ma to KO Abom? Do you see how you dont listen? Did you even see the post where I said I agreed with you?

Originally posted by h1a8

How is Doc or Ironclad stronger than Abom? Where are you getting your facts from? If you meant that both Doc and Ironclad combined are stronger than Abom then I still fail to see how one-shotting either of them shows he can hurt Abom. For Cage didn't one-shotted their combined beings now did he.

I didnt say that Doc or Ironclad are stronger than Abom. The point is they are both strong enough to fight Abom. If Luke can take these guys out with one punch. THEN HE CAN USE MA TO KO ABOM



Originally posted by h1a8

Why not? Don't sound waves move omnidirectional?

Doesnt do destruction to objects behind it.

Originally posted by h1a8

PIS exists nonetheless. I denied your scan feats because they were invalid. Darthgoober actually showed me valid ones that made me sway some.

Anyway...luke being able to dodge Hulks punches is PIS? Luke being able to hurt WM by getting him in the testicles is PIS?

I addressed the lack of destruction. I already said that sound can travel beyond the air waves caused by the thunderclap, and that the most severe damage from a clap is the sound if it goes towards a person.

Do you know how much poor sound does it take to break stone? The only way that sound has to do that is either vibrate the stone fast enough or heat it until is destroyed, which is an incredible amount of energy. Asking that the sound is shown physical destruction is an ignorant thing to do.

Address this or lose the debate Phantom Zone.

Originally posted by Bentley
I addressed the lack of destruction. I already said that sound can travel beyond the air waves caused by the thunderclap, and that the most severe damage from a clap is the sound if it goes towards a person.

Do you know how much poor sound does it take to break stone? The only way that sound has to do that is either vibrate the stone fast enough or heat it until is destroyed, which is an incredible amount of energy. Asking that the sound is shown physical destruction is an ignorant thing to do.

Address this or lose the debate Phantom Zone.

Why are you assuming that the sound from behind the shockwave is going to be enough to hurt Luke?

We know that behind the shockwave the power is considerably less, so how powerful is it?

Also I stated the physical destruction is a reprensentation of the power of the sound. If it not even doing any physical damage how the hell is it going to hurt somebody who can take class 80 shots?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Luke Cage spends 1 year intensive training with Captain America then takes on Abomination, who wins?

That won't work. Cap himself could come too and they both get stomped.

This thread is still going on? Ironclod and Doc Samson are still being used as measuring sticks? Unbelievable.

The arguement here is that Ironclad has fought the Hulk. How well has it turned out for Ironclad? Even with the help of the other three U-Foes? Ironclod is a punk (although he should be able to beat Cage everytime also).

Cage isnt beating the Thing either.

Originally posted by tkitna


The arguement here is that Ironclad has fought the Hulk. How well has it turned out for Ironclad? Even with the help of the other three U-Foes? Ironclod is a punk


Hes a punk that can fight Hulk...get it? Is Doc Samson a punk as well.

Originally posted by tkitna


(although he should be able to beat Cage everytime also).

I see so you're just going to keep saying its PIS when events dont happen in comics that you agree with?

Originally posted by tkitna

Cage isnt beating the Thing either.

Brilliant cant argue with that. Clear concise logical argument. "He inst beating the Thing either", ok **** it everybody post of year, lets close this thread and done.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Why are you assuming that the sound from behind the shockwave is going to be enough to hurt Luke?

We know that behind the shockwave the power is considerably less, so how powerful is it?

Also I stated the physical destruction is a representation of the power of the sound. If it not even doing any physical damage how the hell is it going to hurt somebody who can take class 80 shots?

Luke has no extra resistance in his inner ear, the attack goes to a place very close to the brain, which I'm sure has nothing of the skin coating that protects Cage.

The sound behind the wave is as strong as in front of the wave, the wave you are referring is air, there is a body blocking its advance in one direction, but sound travels better through solids, there is no reason for it to be any less powerful in the back than in the front.

Originally posted by Bentley
Luke has no extra resistance in his inner ear, the attack goes to a place very close to the brain, which I'm sure has nothing of the skin coating that protects Cage.

He has superhuman durability, his inner ear is less durable but obvoulsy alot more durable than a humans.

Originally posted by Bentley

The sound behind the wave is as strong as in front of the wave, the wave you are referring is air, there is a body blocking its advance in one direction, but sound travels better through solids, there is no reason for it to be any less powerful in the back than in the front.

I think im going to have to agree to disagree if I cn find scans with people being fine behind the wave that could prove im correct

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hes a punk that can fight Hulk...get it? Is Doc Samson a punk as well.

Yeah he can fight the Hulk, but what good does it do him? He's going to lose everytime. Hell, if the Hulk were real, I could fight him too. The results would be the same. Get it? (probably not)

I like Doc Samson so i'd rather not bad mouth him, but aside from the cheap shot he knocked out a completey at ease Hulk with, what chance does he have either? Even Samson realizes that a physical confrontation with the Hulk is futile. Why cant you?



Yeah, i'll call crap writing when I see it. Cage winning against Ironclad, Thing, Hulk, Samson, or Wonderman is crap writing. I'm sorry to have to be the one to explain it to you, but Cage is a decent brick in the Marvel Universe, but he is way outclassed by any of those other characters. Even with Cage being thrown in the spotlight due to an Avengers membership, it should never change that fact.




Closing this thread is the only intelligent thing you've said so far.

Lets see,,,,,Cage, a 35 ton brick (thats being kind to him) versus the Thing, an 85 ton brick thats been shown time and time again as being one of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe when it comes to being a brick (fighting characters out of his league and hanging). Who wins? If you dont have the common sense to see the logic, well,,,,,,,,

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He has superhuman durability, his inner ear is less durable but obvoulsy alot more durable than a humans.



I think im going to have to agree to disagree if I cn find scans with people being fine behind the wave that could prove im correct

Wait, you're making a case that Cage can win this? He has no hope at all of winning this.

Aside from being basically the Hulk but to a lesser degree, Emil is a trained killer.

Originally posted by tkitna
Yeah he can fight the Hulk, but what good does it do him? He's going to lose everytime. Hell, if the Hulk were real, I could fight him too. The results would be the same. Get it? (probably not)

Ok let me see if I can understand this. You would get killed in 1 second fighting the Hulk but you want to compare yourself to seomebody who can give The Hulk a good tussle? Post of the year.

Originally posted by tkitna

I like Doc Samson so i'd rather not bad mouth him, but aside from the cheap shot he knocked out a completey at ease Hulk with, what chance does he have either? Even Samson realizes that a physical confrontation with the Hulk is futile. Why cant you?

Ok let me explain....he KOed Doc with ONE PUNCH. Which means with 1 years MA intensive training he will be able to KO much stronger opponents by striking at the weak points of Emil....get it?



Originally posted by tkitna

Yeah, i'll call crap writing when I see it. Cage winning against Ironclad, Thing, Hulk, Samson, or Wonderman is crap writing. I'm sorry to have to be the one to explain it to you, but Cage is a decent brick in the Marvel Universe, but he is way outclassed by any of those other characters. Even with Cage being thrown in the spotlight due to an Avengers membership, it should never change that fact.


No you cant debate. You dont debate but just saying something is rubbish, if that were the case every single person in the world would be a genuis.

1. I never said he beat WM, I said he hurt him. I explained Wms testicles are obvoulsy less durable than the rest of him......its a really simple concept.
2. Its not crap writing for Luke to beat Doc and Ironclad because
a) Hes class 25 but his punches are alot harder than people of the same strength class
b) Hes an expert street fighter and eventhough he doesnt know pressure points his punches can be more effective because he knows how to hit harder.
3. He has a record of having good showings against people stronger than him so you cant keep calling it PIs. Prior to his upgarde he has good showings against:
a)Iron Man
b) Piledriver
c)Rhino
d)Black Goliath



Originally posted by tkitna

Closing this thread is the only intelligent thing you've said so far.

Lets see,,,,,Cage, a 35 ton brick (thats being kind to him) versus the Thing, an 85 ton brick thats been shown time and time again as being one of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe when it comes to being a brick (fighting characters out of his league and hanging). Who wins? If you dont have the common sense to see the logic, well,,,,,,,,

Right so he can KO Doc with one punch but cant get 1 or 2 wins on Thing? He Koed Ironclad with one punch but cant get 1 or 2 wins with Thing. He was going toe-to-toe with Orca who is class 80 and his punched didnt really hurt but he cant 1 or 2 on Thing?

Oh when Luke fought Spiderman and put up a good fight was that PIS as well?
Oh I know him dodging Hulks punches was PIS as well?
You know what im gonna do im just going to scream PIS anytime somebody gives me feats I dont like...your the best.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Wait, you're making a case that Cage can win this? He has no hope at all of winning this

Ive already given reasons, read and comprehend.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Aside from being basically the Hulk but to a lesser degree,

Thats right and hes KOed poeple that have fought the Hulk....with ONE PUNCH.


Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Emil is a trained killer.

hes never used his training in any fights.

Ironclad who almost always gives the hulk at least a 10 minute warm up gets one shotted by cage and you don't think that is PIS on th part of Ironclad. As a comparison both Cage and ironclad fought mindless hulk. Iron clad fought him for several panels implying who knows how many minutes of action. Cage was ***** slapped half way across the city in one shot

Listen Emil is a class 100 easily that has fought Hulk and done pretty well on most occasions. Emil has plenty of low showings because he is a villain, but until gets pretty angry Hulk has no chance against him. Abomination nearly killed bannerHulk before something pissed him off. He is pretty damn durable is hide is at least as tough as the Hulks (in fact if you read the handbook - which you really shouldn't put too much store by, his durability is greater than the hulks).

Without some unbeleivably crap writing Cage has no chance against Abomination even with Cap america training.

Cage does good against heavier opponents because he doesn't pull his punches against them, he ain't going to kill them so he can go all out. And Wolverine was knocked out by a deer, everyone has low showings.

Answer me this: Is being one-shotted by Cage a low showing for Samson yes or no?

The Abomination can also strike the ground and tussle Cage into the air where he cannot defend himself against a thunderclap or whatsoever. Abom has so many options that its not even funny.

Originally posted by severance
Ironclad who almost always gives the hulk at least a 10 minute warm up gets one shotted by cage and you don't think that is PIS on th part of Ironclad.

No because at class 3, hes been able to hurt WM and beat Piledriver whos punches hurt Thor and go toe-to-toe with Iron Man

Originally posted by severance

As a comparison both Cage and ironclad fought mindless hulk. Iron clad fought him for several panels implying who knows how many minutes of action. Cage was ***** slapped half way across the city in one shot

Bro Cage was class 3 then, Cage Koed him when he was class 25.

Originally posted by severance

Listen Emil is a class 100 easily that has fought Hulk and done pretty well on most occasions. Emil has plenty of low showings because he is a villain, but until gets pretty angry Hulk has no chance against him. Abomination nearly killed bannerHulk before something pissed him off. He is pretty damn durable is hide is at least as tough as the Hulks (in fact if you read the handbook - which you really shouldn't put too much store by, his durability is greater than the hulks).


Well you cant prove hes more durable than the Hulk. Well Cap stunned Prof Hulk for 1 second, what do you think a class 35 martail expert is going to be capable, for startes Abom probably wont even be able to get a good hit on him.

Originally posted by severance

Without some unbeleivably crap writing Cage has no chance against Abomination even with Cap america training.

As I stated, Luke will probably be able to dodge most of those punches and if he hit vital areas he can KO Abom. Hell he was class 3 and hurt class 95 WM....do the math.


Originally posted by Bentley
Cage does good against heavier opponents because he doesn't pull his punches against them, he ain't going to kill them so he can go all out.

Terrible logic, so the other peoples hes fighting are pulling their punches?

Originally posted by Bentley

And Wolverine was knocked out by a deer, everyone has low showings.

Luke = Deer. Terrible logic.

Originally posted by Bentley

Answer me this: Is being one-shotted by Cage a low showing for Samson yes or no?

It could be argued that its not because:

1. A weaker Luke hurt WM.
2. He one-shoted Ironclad
3. He weaker Luke beat Piledriver who is probably on par with Docs durability.
4. A weaker Luke traded blows with Iron Man.


Originally posted by Bentley

The Abomination can also strike the ground and tussle Cage into the air where he cannot defend himself against a thunderclap or whatsoever. Abom has so many options that its not even funny.

Actually if Abom did that Luke can fly kick him in the face. Anyway im giving it 7/10 to Abomination.

When he fought Wonderman there is no doubt he pulled his punches, Hulk the same.

You can argue that Luke can put a fight against Samson, but a one-shot? Are you really saying that you think that Luke Cage can one-shot Samson in an average showing?

Originally posted by Bentley
When he fought Wonderman there is no doubt he pulled his punches, Hulk the same.

Yes WM was, but the point isnt that Luke can beat WM the point he was able to make him double over in pain. You add 35 tons of strength and give him intensive martial art training, what do you think he will be capable of? But these people were not pulling their punches:

Piledriver
Iron Man
Ironclad
Black Goliath
etc

Originally posted by Bentley

You can argue that Luke can put a fight against Samson, but a one-shot? Are you really saying that you think that Luke Cage can one-shot Samson in an average showing?

Fair enough, thats reasonable. Yes it was a low showing.

P.S. Hulk wasnt pulling his punches he was mindless and it dont matter because he was class 3.

Pile driver is not same durability as Samson. Not close. Pile driver is a class 10 with bullet proof hide no more.

Cage as a class 3 was never properly established. He was said to be as strong as spidey (clas10) and original powerman (now Atlas) also class 10. At this so called class 3 he has off panel stopped a train (well above class 3). So has he had a stated upgrade or have his showings simply gone up over time because of inconsistent writing. Cage writing has always been incosistent but trend these days is to make him tougher and stronger.

Abominations endurance is at least as much as hulks (his healing factor is well down on Hulks) Also who says he has weak points (for instance he has no visible testes). Has anyone other than class 100 characters or near 100 ever beaten abomination? I don't think cage has the power to hurt Abomination no matter how often he hits.

Remember as stated eslewhere with power like emils he does not need to strike directly.

Also remember having training forom cap is not the same as fighting as well as cap. Hawkeye does not fight as well as cap. Cap is the world's best martial artist because he is the super soldier as well as all the training and years of experience.

Originally posted by severance
Pile driver is not same durability as Samson. Not close. Pile driver is a class 10 with bullet proof hide no more.

I think you're wrong there because all the WC have the same durability and they can take shots from Thor.

Originally posted by severance

Cage as a class 3 was never properly established. He was said to be as strong as spidey (clas10) and original powerman (now Atlas) also class 10. At this so called class 3 he has off panel stopped a train (well above class 3). So has he had a stated upgrade or have his showings simply gone up over time because of inconsistent writing. Cage writing has always been incosistent but trend these days is to make him tougher and stronger.

Well bios say different things about strength levels, but even at Spiderman level strength he is still alot weaker than

1. Wonder Man
2. Iron man.
3. Rhino.
etc

Originally posted by severance

Abominations endurance is at least as much as hulks (his healing factor is well down on Hulks) Also who says he has weak points (for instance he has no visible testes). Has anyone other than class 100 characters or near 100 ever beaten abomination? I don't think cage has the power to hurt Abomination no matter how often he hits.


Well he has ears, eyes, nose and a mouth why wouldnt he have testes, and besides there other weak points.

Originally posted by severance

Remember as stated eslewhere with power like emils he does not need to strike directly.

Yes but since he doesnt always thunderclap we cant assume he will. CIS is allowed.

Originally posted by severance

Also remember having training forom cap is not the same as fighting as well as cap. Hawkeye does not fight as well as cap. Cap is the world's best martial artist because he is the super soldier as well as all the training and years of experience.

Yes I know, your not getting the point. Black Tarantular is a MA expert who has class 25 strength, hes not as good as Cap in MA but I can bet his punches are going to be alot more effective than Caps.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok let me see if I can understand this. You would get killed in 1 second fighting the Hulk but you want to compare yourself to seomebody who can give The Hulk a good tussle? Post of the year.



He wasn't comparing himself to anyone, so he was right.....you didn't get it.

Abomination stomps Cage. End of story.

Originally posted by The Pict
He wasn't comparing himself to anyone, so he was right.....you didn't get it.

Abomination stomps Cage. End of story.

There is nothing to get, the point was rubbish. Even if hes not comparing himself he is simply not getting what im saying.

Originally posted by The Pict
Abomination stomps Cage. End of story.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
There is nothing to get, the point was rubbish. Read the information I posted, assimilate it then come back.

I understood what he meant, you just don't want to.

You're the only one posting "information" in Cage's favour. Everyone else knows he gets beaten. I can only assume that you keep arguing because you like Luke Cage, but there is no conceivable way he can beat Abomination.

Originally posted by The Pict
I understood what he meant, you just don't want to.

You're the only one posting "information" in Cage's favour. Everyone else knows he gets beaten. I can only assume that you keep arguing because you like Luke Cage, but there is no conceivable way he can beat Abomination.

Ok then counter the points then. Put your money where your mouth is. What part of hurting class 95 Wonder man dont you understand, whoich was prior to his upgrade?

What part of trading blows with Iron Man and Luke being considerably weaker dont you understand?

What part of beating a guy that can hurt Thor with punches and take shots dont you understand, and this was also prior to his upgrade.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Why would it when a major part of martial arts training involevs increasing your strength, durability and stamina?



Ok but even at his current level he has been able to take down Doc Samson and Ironclad.



doc samson is stated as a class 25 aswell as luke

however if cap took down hulk with a gut punch with less than 1 ton strength(which is some of the shitest writing ever) then cage can definately take abomination with his class 25 strength

Originally posted by ankur29
doc samson is stated as a class 25 aswell as luke

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/d/docsamson.htm

Strength Level: Doc Samson can lift (press) approximately 70 tons under optimal conditions.

Originally posted by ankur29

however if cap took down hulk with a gut punch with less than 1 ton strength(which is some of the shitest writing ever) then cage can definately take abomination with his class 25 strength

I don think Cap can do that with a gut punch but at least you get the logic of what im saying.

Cap has breifly stunned Prof Hulk, the **** you think a guy who has class 35 strength and intense MA training with superhard skin gonna do..you get me?

The handbook that listed Doc at 25 tons corrected that error in the '89 update #1. It put Doc at 70 tons.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
The handbook that listed Doc at 25 tons corrected that error in the '89 update #1. It put Doc at 70 tons.

do you have proof of that? in comics i know its stated samson was near strong as calm hulk but another comic show where a sentinel scanned him as able to lift 25 tons?

however teh point is if cap took down hulk with a gut punch with less than 1 ton strength(which is some of the shitest writing ever) then cage can definately take abomination with his class 25 strength

Originally posted by ankur29
do you have proof of that? in comics i know its stated samson was near strong as calm hulk but another comic show where a sentinel scanned him as able to lift 25 tons?

however teh point is if cap took down hulk with a gut punch with less than 1 ton strength(which is some of the shitest writing ever) then cage can definately take abomination with his class 25 strength

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


I don think Cap can do that with a gut punch but at least you get the logic of what im saying.

Cap has breifly stunned Prof Hulk, the **** you think a guy who has class 35 strength and intense MA training with superhard skin gonna do..you get me?

Alsso Luke will probably be stronger after 1 year of training. I would put him at class 35

Hercules kayoed Abomination with a lamp post.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Alsso Luke will probably be stronger after 1 year of training. I would put him at class 35

that is quite a big increase . 10 tons? that is luke cage + classic spiderman lol (i would personally say he woudl become about 30 tons) , but if that was true would it mean that luke cage's strengthand concidently health is maintained at class 25 without training?

how strong would spidey be with a years traing ,with weights and with cap?i think about 25 tons

Originally posted by ankur29
do you have proof of that? in comics i know its stated samson was near strong as calm hulk but another comic show where a sentinel scanned him as able to lift 25 tons?



Here is the correction scan:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ohmu890149.jpg

And yea I realize the Sentinel scanned Doc's strength at 25 tons but if you notice Doc has very short hair there.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Here is the correction scan:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ohmu890149.jpg

And yea I realize the Sentinel scanned Doc's strength at 25 tons but if you notice Doc has very short hair there.

that is abosolutely correct but i have learnt that samsons 'current' strength whci is no longer affected by hair growth is at 25 tons

Originally posted by ankur29
that is quite a big increase . 10 tons? that is luke cage + classic spiderman lol (i would personally say he woudl become about 30 tons) , but if that was true would it mean that luke cage's strengthand concidently health is maintained at class 25 without training?

Well I guess he does some training but this is gonna be intense. I dont see 25 to 35 is a stretch. I think 40 would be too high as they would mostly concentrate on skill and speed.

Originally posted by ankur29

how strong would spidey be with a years traing ,with weights and with cap?i think about 25 tons

15 -25 ...sounds reasonable


Originally posted by ankur29
that is abosolutely correct but i have learnt that samsons 'current' strength whci is no longer affected by hair growth is at 25 tons

Got proof? Doc does state on panel that he has Hulk level strength, im assuming baseline hulk strength.

http://img12.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=03479_Thunderbolts_117_DCP_0011_122_1008lo.jpg

Originally posted by ankur29
that is abosolutely correct but i have learnt that samsons 'current' strength whci is no longer affected by hair growth is at 25 tons Where did you hear that?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone




Got proof? Doc does state on panel that he has Hulk level strength, im assuming baseline hulk strength.

http://img12.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=03479_Thunderbolts_117_DCP_0011_122_1008lo.jpg Actually that scan you posted Doc says he's Hulk level and he has short hair. Doc does have a buzz haircut nowadays.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No because at class 3, hes been able to hurt WM and beat Piledriver whos punches hurt Thor and go toe-to-toe with Iron Man

Bro Cage was class 3 then, Cage Koed him when he was class 25.

The same class 3 Cage that had a hard time bending a steel girder while fighting the Thing? The same class 3 Cage that wailed on the Hulk and the Hulk didnt even notice he was there? Yeah, now it makes perfect sence that he should be able to hurt WM or Piledriver. *sigh*



Hasent Karnak hit the Hulk before and stated that the Hulk has no weak points? I would say CA hurting the Hulk is PIS, but i'm sure you'll disagree.

Abomination has thunderclaps and ground strikes that would neutralize any speed difference that Cage may have.



1+1=3 is your type of math here. Your the only person in the thread that is arguing on Cages bahalf and its crazy. For some reason, you have it in your mind that Cage is going to come out of this training being able to fight as well as Captain America. Sorry, but the student isnt going to equal the teacher here. Even it did happen that way, Cage still loses. Theres just to much difference to make up.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Actually that scan you posted Doc says he's Hulk level and he has short hair. Doc does have a buzz haircut nowadays.

Yeah well my point is that hes not class 25.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


1. I think you're wrong there because all the WC have the same durability and they can take shots from Thor.



2. Well bios say different things about strength levels, but even at Spiderman level strength he is still alot weaker than

1. Wonder Man
2. Iron man.
3. Rhino.
etc



3. Well he has ears, eyes, nose and a mouth why wouldnt he have testes, and besides there other weak points.



4. Yes but since he doesnt always thunderclap we cant assume he will. CIS is allowed.




5. Yes I know, your not getting the point. Black Tarantular is a MA expert who has class 25 strength, hes not as good as Cap in MA but I can bet his punches are going to be alot more effective than Caps.


1. Pile driver has been pierced by a standard hawkeye arrow. Not all that durable

2. My point was that Cage strength is inconsitently written. You state that he was one shotted by hulk when class 3 I don't believe his stength was ever properly categorised and am questioning whether he really has had an "upgrade" but is just being written more consistently at the high end of his power. Stopping a train is easily a class 25 feat and yet he did this while supposedly class 3. So was he ever really class 3 or has his strength never really changed.

3. Abomination he may have testes but they aren't visible. I have seen him depicted without his usual trunks there is nothing there dude - (poor Emil probably why he is so bitter) His ears, nose may or may not be weak points, this has not been established you are assuming here. The guys is not a normal human, he is a green scaly beast that can survive tank shells re-entry heat etc.

4. He's gonna use it if Cage is too dodgy to hit

5. Martial arts will give cage the ability to hit Emil better and avoid his hits. But often martial arts works by exploiting weak points and as I have said you cannot establish if Emil even has any

Also, your reference to Cage fighting Iron Man, Ironclad, Piledriver, Rhino, and Black Goliath is weak too.

I dont have the comic, but Cage beating Iron Man or even having a decent showing is rediculous. Do you actually think Cage should be able to hang with Iron Man? Ever? For once, be honest with yourself.

Ironclad is Luke Cage only to another degree. Losing to Cage is garbage writing at best.

Piledriver should never lose either, but he's a villian that was created to lose regardless. Low showing for him.

Rhino,,,,,,he's never won a fight in the Marvel Universe. Nuff Said!

Black Goliath? A c-lister thats not going to win against one of Marvels premier minority heros. Regardless, I dont think he had enough for Cage anyways. He wasnt much and dying to a cheap imitation of Thor proved that.

All this, and we're arguing that a 30 tonner at best is going to beat a character that has already beaten the Hulk before. Unreal.

Originally posted by tkitna
The same class 3 Cage that had a hard time bending a steel girder while fighting the Thing?

I never stated that a class 3 Cage can beat Thing. I stated that class 3 Cage has beaten much stronger opponents. Just becaue he cant bend a steel girder doesnt mean he cant hurt much stronger opponents because he can do it time and time again. Cap or DD cant bend steel girders but they can hurt bricks is that PIS to?

Originally posted by tkitna

The same class 3 Cage that wailed on the Hulk and the Hulk didnt even notice he was there? Yeah, now it makes perfect sence that he should be able to hurt WM or Piledriver. *sigh*

Did he hit Hulk in the nuts? Is Piledriver as tough as The Hulk? Why do you think it takes 4 of them to fight Thor? Terrible logic.

Originally posted by tkitna

Hasent Karnak hit the Hulk before and stated that the Hulk has no weak points? I would say CA hurting the Hulk is PIS, but i'm sure you'll disagree.

Yes i'll disagree because there are lots of feats that can prove that Cap should be able to do it. I could list them out but i'll wait for your response.

Originally posted by tkitna

Abomination has thunderclaps and ground strikes that would neutralize any speed difference that Cage may have.

He doesnt do that all the time. CIS is allowed pay attention


Originally posted by tkitna

1+1=3 is your type of math here. Your the only person in the thread that is arguing on Cages bahalf and its crazy.

Yes the math adds up, all you are doing is giving me some events which you think contradict Cage being able to hurt people much stronger than him. I countered them.

Originally posted by tkitna

For some reason, you have it in your mind that Cage is going to come out of this training being able to fight as well as Captain America. Sorry, but the student isnt going to equal the teacher here. Even it did happen that way, Cage still loses. Theres just to much difference to make up.

See below get it?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


Yes I know, your not getting the point. Black Tarantular is a MA expert who has class 25 strength, hes not as good as Cap in MA but I can bet his punches are going to be alot more effective than Caps.

Originally posted by severance
1. Pile driver has been pierced by a standard hawkeye arrow. Not all that durable

Right so the fcat this happened means he cant take shots from Thor? No it doesnt.

Originally posted by severance

2. My point was that Cage strength is inconsitently written. You state that he was one shotted by hulk when class 3 I don't believe his stength was ever properly categorised and am questioning whether he really has had an "upgrade" but is just being written more consistently at the high end of his power. Stopping a train is easily a class 25 feat and yet he did this while supposedly class 3. So was he ever really class 3 or has his strength never really changed.


To be quite honest most of strength feats are around 10. Spiderman has feats in class70 sometimes that dont make him class70 because most of his feats are class 10.

Originally posted by severance

3. Abomination he may have testes but they aren't visible. I have seen him depicted without his usual trunks there is nothing there dude - (poor Emil probably why he is so bitter) His ears, nose may or may not be weak points, this has not been established you are assuming here. The guys is not a normal human, he is a green scaly beast that can survive tank shells re-entry heat etc.

He does cos Cap has been able to hurt him, also he looks similar to a human so he probably

Originally posted by severance

4. He's gonna use it if Cage is too dodgy to hit

I think its possible he could dodge a few, if he knows it coming. As I was saying the impression I get from shockwaves is that they are considerably less powerful if you get behind them. Even if hes too dodgey to hit he most likley wont use it straight away. Spiderman was fighting Hulk and Hulk didnt use it till much later.

Originally posted by severance

5. Martial arts will give cage the ability to hit Emil better and avoid his hits. But often martial arts works by exploiting weak points and as I have said you cannot establish if Emil even has any

He does cos Cap has been able to hurt him, also he looks similar to a human so he probably

Originally posted by tkitna
Eveytime I see a feat that doesnt support my argument im gonna just say its PIS. I think more people should use this debating tactic, if in doubt just say PIS.

He can't take shots from thor. He may have taken them but this is either Thor holding back (most likelY) or PIS. If thor unleashes a true hit pile driver turns into red mist. Spidey (who does not have super hard skin) took out almost the whole wrecking crew are we saying he hits as hard as thor?

Did cap hurt him with his unbreakable shield or with his fists?

Ultron looks similar to a human do you think he has weak spots?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I never stated that a class 3 Cage can beat Thing. I stated that class 3 Cage has beaten much stronger opponents.

Than Thing or himself?



Alot of the times,,,,yes. This also depends on the bricks we're talking about. No, I dont feel they should be able to hurt the Hulk, Thing, or Abomination for that matter.



Are the nuts the only pressure point your concentrating on here? It takes 4 of them because Thor is in the Hulks and Abominations class. See the logic and how futile it is for Cage now?



Your disagreeing because an Inhuman who's sole power is to find weak spots in objects and characters stated there was NO weak spots? Brilliant. Cap gets away with it because he's a flagship character in Marvel. No other reason. I'll wait for your response.



Crap writing and low showings for superior characters is your counter?

Piledriver being impaled by Hawkeye's arrow was PIS, as Piledriver has shown multiple times to be bulletproof.

Severance your greatly underestimating the crew, I suggest you read this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t453738.html

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Piledriver being impaled by Hawkeye's arrow was PIS, as Piledriver has shown multiple times to be bulletproof.

Severance your greatly underestimating the crew, I suggest you read this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t453738.html

Hawkeye has, time and time again, shown that his arrows are more powerful than bullets - as he's hurt/impaled bullet proof characters on more than one occasion.

Originally posted by Soljer
Hawkeye has, time and time again, shown that his arrows are more powerful than bullets - as he's hurt/impaled bullet proof characters on more than one occasion.

With his trick arrows, but he actually used regular arrows on Piledriver

Originally posted by tkitna
Also, your reference to Cage fighting Iron Man, Ironclad, Piledriver, Rhino, and Black Goliath is weak too.

Yeah because basically either YOU decide that its either PIS or a low showing.

Originally posted by tkitna

I dont have the comic, but Cage beating Iron Man or even having a decent showing is rediculous. Do you actually think Cage should be able to hang with Iron Man? Ever? For once, be honest with yourself.


Dont tell me to be honest. Im sick to your death of misinterpreting some of what im saying and you screaming PIS, im trying as hard as I can to be civil. No its not stupid writing because.
1. He didnt win.
2. It was classic Iron Man.

Originally posted by tkitna

Ironclad is Luke Cage only to another degree. Losing to Cage is garbage writing at best.

1. Luke was upgraded
2. Hes got a history of fighting much stronger opponents. Doc Samson and Orca....all that PIS?

Originally posted by tkitna

Piledriver should never lose either, but he's a villian that was created to lose regardless. Low showing for him.

Why is it a low showing hes class 10. Losing to Thor makes him a loser?

Originally posted by tkitna

Rhino,,,,,,he's never won a fight in the Marvel Universe. Nuff Said!


What about Doc Samson?

Originally posted by tkitna

Black Goliath? A c-lister thats not going to win against one of Marvels premier minority heros. Regardless, I dont think he had enough for Cage anyways. He wasnt much and dying to a cheap imitation of Thor proved that.

1. You missed the point hes stronger than Cage.
2. THATS A THOR THAT WAS PAWNING ALL THE HEROES FOR GOD SAKE!

Originally posted by tkitna

All this, and we're arguing that a 30 tonner at best is going to beat a character that has already beaten the Hulk before. Unreal.

Yeah because everytime he has a good feat its a low showing or pIS crap.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Piledriver being impaled by Hawkeye's arrow was PIS, as Piledriver has shown multiple times to be bulletproof.

Severance your greatly underestimating the crew, I suggest you read this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t453738.html I read somewhere that a arrow with a special tip can go through things bullets cannot. But don't remember the source.

BTW Abom. should win this. But Luke does have some nice showings against Doc Samson, Ironclad, and Rhino. 3 guys who themselves have given Hulk hell.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I read somewhere that a arrow with a special tip can go through things bullets cannot. But don't remember the source.

Maybe against a low calibur gun, but the crew have taken armor peircing gun fire before.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Piledriver being impaled by Hawkeye's arrow was PIS, as Piledriver has shown multiple times to be bulletproof.

Severance your greatly underestimating the crew, I suggest you read this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t453738.html

Not stating he wasn't bullet proof Hawkeye said his arrows hit harder than bullets at close range. But it can't surely be that much harder. I'll check out the forum and get back to you

Originally posted by King_Mungi
With his trick arrows, but he actually used regular arrows on Piledriver Does he say this? I don't remember.

Does Hawkeye even carry regular arrows? I just don't see him using one on a supervillain.

Originally posted by tkitna
No, I dont feel they should be able to hurt the Hulk, Thing, or Abomination for that matter.

Then you're a complete and utter waste fo time arent, you. All you're doing is saying feats are PIS despite the fact that their is evidence to the contrary. Yes Cap can hurt the Hulk because:

1. He stunned Pofessor Hulk for briefly
2. Has KOed a mind controlled Namor in water.
3. Has hurt Namor with a kick and put him on his back
4. Has hit Hulk so hard that he let go of his grip on him.
5. TKOed Thunderball
6. Knocked the air out of Executioner and put him on his back, despite the fact hes class 65 and more durable thanmost Asagardians.
7. Hurt Abomination
8. Theres probaly more.......

Originally posted by tkitna
PIS.

Quit wasting my time.

Originally posted by severance
He can't take shots from thor. He may have taken them but this is either Thor holding back (most likelY) or PIS. If thor unleashes a true hit pile driver turns into red mist. Spidey (who does not have super hard skin) took out almost the whole wrecking crew are we saying he hits as hard as thor?

Did cap hurt him with his unbreakable shield or with his fists?

Ultron looks similar to a human do you think he has weak spots?

Ultron is a robot. Abim is humanoid. Cap used his hand on a pressure point.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I read somewhere that a arrow with a special tip can go through things bullets cannot

Certain things, yes. For example, bullet resistant fibers - as an appropriately tipped arrow cuts. Water, too, since bullets will often break up as they hit water whereas an arrow will not.

Bulletproof comic book characters (almost without exception) do not mimic the properties of cloth or water.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


1. He stunned Pofessor Hulk for briefly
2. Has KOed a mind controlled Namor in water.
3. Has hurt Namor with a kick and put him on his back
4. Has hit Hulk so hard that he let go of his grip on him.
5. TKOed Thunderball
6. Knocked the air out of Executioner and put him on his back, despite the fact hes class 65 and more durable thanmost Asagardians.
7. Hurt Abomination
8. Theres probaly more.......



The legend of Class 100 Captain America continues.

.

ok I read the first few entries in the respec thread. I saw a lot of spin in favour of the crew - exaggerated interpretations of the panel action. I believe they are probably more powerful than the handbook class 10 but they are not in the same class higher level bricks. You miss out the numerour low showings for the crew.for instance spider man one shotting bulldozer

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Then you're a complete and utter waste fo time arent, you. All you're doing is saying feats are PIS despite the fact that their is evidence to the contrary. Yes Cap can hurt the Hulk because:

1. He stunned Pofessor Hulk for briefly
2. Has KOed a mind controlled Namor in water.
3. Has hurt Namor with a kick and put him on his back
4. Has hit Hulk so hard that he let go of his grip on him.
5. TKOed Thunderball
6. Knocked the air out of Executioner and put him on his back, despite the fact hes class 65 and more durable thanmost Asagardians.
7. Hurt Abomination
8. Theres probaly more.......



Quit wasting my time.



Ultron is a robot. Abim is humanoid. Cap used his hand on a pressure point.

Sh!t I gotta see that if you got a scan. That mean cap is up there with Batkick!! Point about Abom physiology is that he looks about as humanoid as ultron (same number of legs, arms etc.) Who knows what the physiology of a 980lb green scaly man thing like abomination is like for astrt as stated he has no visible nuts

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Does he say this? I don't remember.

Does Hawkeye even carry regular arrows? I just don't see him using one on a supervillain.

Yep, he has regular metal crested arrows, and trick arrows

Originally posted by severance
Sh!t I gotta see that if you got a scan. That mean cap is up there with Batkick!! Point about Abom physiology is that he looks about as humanoid as ultron (same number of legs, arms etc.) Who knows what the physiology of a 980lb green scaly man thing like abomination is like for astrt as stated he has no visible nuts

Well what do you think?

Humanoid = similar to human, therefore most likely has similar physiology. Furthermore didnt stop Cap from hurting him....oh yeah im not sure what your question was refering to Cap has hurt Abom with his shield and brefily stunned Professor Hulk with a pressure point. There is nothing to indicate that his physiology is radically different.

Ultron doesnt even have any organs you cant compare the two at all.

Well most of those feats were from the herochat respect thread we might have some of them on KMC, but yeah Cap has been****ing up bricks with his fists for ages.

Originally posted by severance
ok I read the first few entries in the respec thread. I saw a lot of spin in favour of the crew - exaggerated interpretations of the panel action. I believe they are probably more powerful than the handbook class 10 but they are not in the same class higher level bricks. You miss out the numerour low showings for the crew.for instance spider man one shotting bulldozer

Ummm...what, show me where I exaggerated anything in that thread. Tell me what was taken out of context. Yes, I didn't add the low showings as they contradict all their other showings

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Ummm...what, show me where I exaggerated anything in that thread. Tell me what was taken out of context. Yes, I didn't add the low showings as they contradict all their other showings

Ok in your first post you mention the crew nearly killing hercules.
You wrote:
Here the Crew ambush Hercules and once again nearly kill him before Thor arrives and in turn they nearly kill Thor

In the first encounter it wasn't just the crew but goliath, tiger shark and others also Hercules was drugged to hell he could barley stand. In the second fight Hercules had become so traumatised by his near death experience that when he met the crew he was losing to them easily - this is due to the mental trauma and not any physical weakness on hercs part. Thor came along to help and it seemed as though the crew were beating him. When you read on it shows the fact that Thor is entirely holding back to make it seem like his life is jeopardy to ignite Herc into action. Herc seeing his firend in danger (albeit pretend) snaps out of his trauma and then virtually destroys the crew and they scamper away.
Your desription does not fit the events and is out of context of the preceding events.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well what do you think?

Humanoid = similar to human, therefore most likely has similar physiology. Furthermore didnt stop Cap from hurting him....oh yeah im not sure what your question was refering to Cap has hurt Abom with his shield and brefily stunned Professor Hulk with a pressure point. There is nothing to indicate that his physiology is radically different.

Ultron doesnt even have any organs you cant compare the two at all.

Well most of those feats were from the herochat respect thread we might have some of them on KMC, but yeah Cap has been****ing up bricks with his fists for ages.

Sorry to bang on about this, but you are not dealing with the issue here. Abomination is humanoid in shape - he has eyes and and a mouth and four limbs. But he is also very different from a human. He is green and scaly, has two toes, sharp teeth, weighs near half a ton, has no nuts - so you cannot assume his physiology is the same as humans in any way. That said if I find the scan of cap hurtig him with his bare hands, I may have to grudgingly concede this point (but I wil respect Marvel writers a little less)

Originally posted by severance
Ok in your first post you mention the crew nearly killing hercules.
You wrote:
Here the Crew ambush Hercules and once again nearly kill him before Thor arrives and in turn they nearly kill Thor

In the first encounter it wasn't just the crew but goliath, tiger shark and others also Hercules was drugged to hell he could barley stand.

and your right, except for Hercules gives credit to the Crew for nearly killing him and that's what I referenced as that's what he said directly. I didn't even post the first fight, but what Hercules said after it

1. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_03.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_04.jpg

Originally posted by severance

In the second fight Hercules had become so traumatised by his near death experience that when he met the crew he was losing to them easily - this is due to the mental trauma and not any physical weakness on hercs part. Thor came along to help and it seemed as though the crew were beating him. When you read on it shows the fact that Thor is entirely holding back to make it seem like his life is jeopardy to ignite Herc into action. Herc seeing his firend in danger (albeit pretend) snaps out of his trauma and then virtually destroys the crew and they scamper away.
Your desription does not fit the events and is out of context of the preceding events.

Ummm...if they actually read the scans they would know all this, the description above is a brief introduction of the feats. It clearly shows Thor allowed the Crew to hit him, and it showed Hercules was distraught. So like I said how did I take things out of context? As I showed everything from the fight and the circumstances behind it from start to finish.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_14.jpg

Originally posted by severance
Sorry to bang on about this, but you are not dealing with the issue here. Abomination is humanoid in shape - he has eyes and and a mouth and four limbs. But he is also very different from a human. He is green and scaly, has two toes, sharp teeth, weighs near half a ton, has no nuts - so you cannot assume his physiology is the same as humans in any way. That said if I find the scan of cap hurtig him with his bare hands, I may have to grudgingly concede this point (but I wil respect Marvel writers a little less)

Cap hurt him with his shield. Obvoulsy Cap went for the weak point. Sorry I got lost in all these posts and forgot wether you were refering to Abom or Hulk

Originally posted by King_Mungi
and your right, except for Hercules gives credit to the Crew for nearly killing him and that's what I referenced as that's what he said directly. I didn't even post the first fight, but what Hercules said after it

1. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_03.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_04.jpg



Ummm...if they actually read the scans they would know all this, the description above is a brief introduction of the feats. It clearly shows Thor allowed the Crew to hit him, and it showed Hercules was distraught. So like I said how did I take things out of context? As I showed everything from the fight and the circumstances behind it from start to finish.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_14.jpg

So why use it is a high showing for the crew in a respec thread? It really isn't is it? Its four middle weight bricks getting there arses handed to them by a heavy weight (as should happen), after heroicly breaking out of a mental trauma

Any way I have totally lost track of why we are talking about them in this thread. So I will leave it there and give your repsect thread more than a cursory glance at another point in time.

Originally posted by severance
So why use it is a high showing for the crew in a respec thread? It really isn't is it? Its four middle weight bricks getting there arses handed to them by a heavy weight (as should happen), after heroicly breaking out of a mental trauma

Any way I have totally lost track of why we are talking about them in this thread. So I will leave it there and give your repsect thread more than a cursory glance at another point in time.

Because it shows their strength and durability to even hurt Thor and Hercules and to show they can take their hits. So when the likes of Spider-Man doing it, even though THunderball and Wrecker have owned him by themselves it falls into PIS, as they have far more showings contradicting their low showing.

Luke Cage loses because of thunderclapping, if we assume CIS, Cage may win some matches when Emil fights in his game. I would say this would be about 7/10 favoring Emil if we assume Cage is adept to martial arts or 10/10 to Emil if he is not.

I choose the later.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Cap hurt him with his shield. Obvoulsy Cap went for the weak point. Sorry I got lost in all these posts and forgot wether you were refering to Abom or Hulk

Ok thanks phantom zone - if it was caps indestructable shield it does weaken your point somewhat. If a 5 year old kid hit me on the temple (a weak point) with a metal bar it would hurt if he hit me with his fist it would not. my point being Cap hurts him because he is using a material which is tougher and harder than aboms hide

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Because it shows their strength and durability to even hurt Thor and Hercules and to show they can take their hits. So when the likes of Spider-Man doing it, even though THunderball and Wrecker have owned him by themselves it falls into PIS, as they have far more showings contradicting their low showing.

ok thanks for the expanation

Originally posted by Bentley
Luke Cage loses because of thunderclapping, if we assume CIS, Cage may win some matches when Emil fights in his game. I would say this would be about 7/10 favoring Emil if we assume Cage is adept to martial arts or 10/10 to Emil if he is not.

I choose the later.

I choose 7/10 to Emil.


Originally posted by severance
Ok thanks phantom zone - if it was caps indestructable shield it does weaken your point somewhat. If a 5 year old kid hit me on the temple (a weak point) with a metal bar it would hurt if he hit me with his fist it would not. my point being Cap hurts him because he is using a material which is tougher and harder than aboms hide

No I dont think it does because Cap hurts bricks by targetting their weak points. Yes the shield is hard but he aimed it at a weak point and it still hurt, he does this with everybody regardless. Theres a difference between a 5 year old hitting you with a metal bar and a 5 year old hitting you with a metal bar in a weak area...Cap picked the spot to hit and did not attack randomly. Hell Namor is an Atlantean and hes KOed him.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No I dont think it does because Cap hurts bricks by targetting their weak points. Yes the shield is hard but he aimed it at a weak point and it still hurt, he does this with everybody regardless. Theres a difference between a 5 year old hitting you with a metal bar and a 5 year old hitting you with a metal bar in a weak area...Cap picked the spot to hit and did not attack randomly. Hell Namor is an Atlantean and hes KOed him.

You still have no explanation for Karnaks statement then?

Also, dont you think its hard to believe that Captain America can cause enough force to actually hurt 100 tonners yet blasts from tanks and so forth have done nothing? Explain that.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

1. You missed the point hes stronger than Cage.
2. THATS A THOR THAT WAS PAWNING ALL THE HEROES FOR GOD SAKE!


1. So is Abomination and by miles.
2. Herc took him out in like 2 panels and if i'm not mistaken, thats Mortal Hercules (I cant swear on the mortal/immortal part). Anyways, your logic fails. Black Goliath was a weak character.

How the hell did this get to 7 pages.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Piledriver being impaled by Hawkeye's arrow was PIS, as Piledriver has shown multiple times to be bulletproof.

Severance your greatly underestimating the crew, I suggest you read this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t453738.html

Wrecking Crew were taken down by the Runaways, one of which is 11 years old

Originally posted by The Pict
Wrecking Crew were taken down by the Runaways, one of which is 11 years old

and thet badly jobbed, as a pissed off Thunderball punched Gertrude in the face and all it did was knock off her glasses and she was fine. Lulz

Like I said look at the respect thread and see what they have done.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
How the hell did this get to 7 pages.

I agree. I'm done with it.

Originally posted by The Pict
Abomination stomps Cage. End of story.

This thread should've ended right there ^^^

If the writer ain't on drugs, Luke is lucky to walk away alive

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I choose 7/10 to Emil.




No I dont think it does because Cap hurts bricks by targetting their weak points. Yes the shield is hard but he aimed it at a weak point and it still hurt, he does this with everybody regardless. Theres a difference between a 5 year old hitting you with a metal bar and a 5 year old hitting you with a metal bar in a weak area...Cap picked the spot to hit and did not attack randomly. Hell Namor is an Atlantean and hes KOed him.

Cap taking out someone beyond his power range is acceptable he is the super soldier he makes people job to him. Remember cage would just be trained by cage for 1 year that is not the same as being as good as cap, not even close. If the thread was Cap got a strength boost to cl 35 we may have more of an argument

Originally posted by BUSTER1
If the writer ain't on drugs, Luke is lucky to walk away alive There must be alot of writers on drugs then.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
There must be alot of writers on drugs then.

There must be then-how can Cage 1 shot Iron Clad, when an enraged Proffesor/Merged Hulk could only stun him with a full blooded punch (Hulk # 398:Ghosts of The Past part 2)

No-one has argued against my posts, so I assume that everyone agrees with me-that Abomination beats Cage 10/10

no i'll respond later

Originally posted by tkitna
You still have no explanation for Karnaks statement then?

Yeah I do I explained already hes been doing this for 100s of years you cant complain that its PIS because its an established part of his powerset, if he had only done stuff like 1 or 2 times then you could complain.

If anything its a low showing for Karnak

Originally posted by tkitna

Also, dont you think its hard to believe that Captain America can cause enough force to actually hurt 100 tonners yet blasts from tanks and so forth have done nothing? Explain that.

Nope its comic book were the rules of physics are different. Not only is Cap able to do this Daredevil is as well. Cap isnt just some glorifed atheletes hes actually enhanced human and is one the greatest fighters on earth the logic is that his strikes can be so precise and focused that they are to hurt class 100s. Cap actually has class 1 -2 strength as well. Heres some other stuff that doesnt make any sense but will still accept because its a comicbook:

1. How is somebody who doesnt have superhuman intelligence able to become an expert at time travel?
2. How is it that man can be so skillful that he can make a paper aeroplane go through a glass window without breaking it?
3. Why didnt Peter Parker get cancer when he got biten by a radioactive spider.
4. Why is it class 100s weigh less than a ton can lift millions of tons but have trouble jumping out of orbit.

These are things that dont make sense but we accept them because they are established rules of a comicbook.


Originally posted by tkitna
1. So is Abomination and by miles.
2. Herc took him out in like 2 panels and if i'm not mistaken, thats Mortal Hercules (I cant swear on the mortal/immortal part). Anyways, your logic fails. Black Goliath was a weak character.

1. You missed the point. Im not going to explain myself again.
2. This is why your a waste of time. Black Goliath is a weak character but you ignored all the other strong characters on my list. In all fairness some of the feats were low showings for some characters but you cant say that every decent feat by a character is PIS and stop ignoring relevant parts of my post and focusing on the sections that suit you.

Originally posted by severance
Cap taking out someone beyond his power range is acceptable he is the super soldier he makes people job to him.

Stop using the its PIS argument. Its crappy debating, its an established part of his powerset hes been doing it for 100s of years you cant just come along and say its PIS, and its not just him either Daredevil can do the same

Originally posted by severance

Remember cage would just be trained by cage for 1 year that is not the same as being as good as cap, not even close. If the thread was Cap got a strength boost to cl 35 we may have more of an argument

Im gonna have to explain myself again? Hes not going to be as good as Cap but hes still going to be very skillful, he doesnt need to be as good as Cap the class35 strength plus his added durability will compensate him. As explained already hes punches are harder than people of the same strength level because his skin is harder so its like a class35 person with titanuim knuckle dusters.

Also if you train intensively you can be better than somebody who has done it for years if you do alot in relatively short time space. No im not saying he will be as good as Cap, but he will be a skillful MA.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
There must be then-how can Cage 1 shot Iron Clad, when an enraged Proffesor/Merged Hulk could only stun him with a full blooded punch (Hulk # 398:Ghosts of The Past part 2)

That might be because Ironclad can increase his weight and therefore make it harder for him to KO. He had not done this when he fought Cage. In all fairness you could say its a low showing but its not PIS. However its not a low showing for:

1. Iron Man to get his armour damaged by Luke and for him to be able to go toe-to-toe with him. Even at Spiderman level strength he showed more durability than Ares who is described as being class 75, he also hits harder than Spiderman because his skin is harder.
2. Its not a low-showing for Piledriver to lose to Luke, because Luke used his momentum against him.
3. Its not a low showing for Wonder Man to get hurt by him because Luke kicked him in the nuts.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That might be because Ironclad can increase his weight and therefore make it harder for him to KO. He had not done this when he fought Cage. In all fairness you could say its a low showing but its not PIS. However its not a low showing for:

1. Iron Man to get his armour damaged by Luke and for him to be able to go toe-to-toe with him. Even at Spiderman level strength he showed more durability than Ares who is described as being class 75, he also hits harder than Spiderman because his skin is harder.
2. Its not a low-showing for Piledriver to lose to Luke, because Luke used his momentum against him.
3. Its not a low showing for Wonder Man to get hurt by him because Luke kicked him in the nuts.

I agree that b4 his upgrade he hit harder than Spiderman b'cos of his steel hard skin, and I'm not suprised that he could KO Piledriver, as Spiderman has 1 shotted Bulldozer, who is the same level as his Wrecking Crew teamate. But it is PIS, when he 1 shots someone who was still conscious after a full strength punch from an enraged Merged/Professor Hulk (base strength 100 tons)

Originally posted by BUSTER1
I agree that b4 his upgrade he hit harder than Spiderman b'cos of his steel hard skin, and I'm not suprised that he could KO Piledriver, as Spiderman has 1 shotted Bulldozer, who is the same level as his Wrecking Crew teamate. But it is PIS, when he 1 shots someone who was still conscious after a full strength punch from an enraged Merged/Professor Hulk (base strength 100 tons)

Well for starters they didnt look like full force punches to me....

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/ironclad1.jpg

Yeah he was pissed off and would have murdered him but to be quite frank it just looks like hes toying with him like he was a joke. Aww shaddup is not what somebody who is takes his opponent serioulsy says. You can be pissed of with somebody but if you think they're a joke you will b*tchslap them instead.

Anyway I see what you're saying I think in other cirumstances Ironclad has taken full force shots from Prof Hulk. I dont see it as PIS but as a low showing hes also been KOed by people weaker than Hulk as well. I could go into more detail but im tired now.

Ironclad was also one-shotted by Gilgamesh iirc.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Ironclad was also one-shotted by Gilgamesh iirc.

I tink they had that fight on the herochat battle repect thread. I dont know why but they took it down. Hes also been KOed by She Hulk dont know if it was a 1 shot though.

i think cage can do it. lets look at it like this with skill you can beat people ahell of alot stronger then you. that's how bat dose it cap, wonder woman etc. and abom has no skill wat so ever so yes with training by cap cage would beat em

with what? Punches?

In spite of the fact that colossus who has more skill AND strength still needs the rest of the X-men to fight im?

Originally posted by jinzin
with what? Punches?

In spite of the fact that colossus who has more skill AND strength still needs the rest of the X-men to fight im? Does Wolverine need the rest of the X-Men to fight him?