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The fights on Valhalla.

Chief has all current UNSC weaponry available while the same goes for Arbiter with the Covenant.

Arbiter wins. He already has a camo advantage, now you gave him all Covenant weapons while MC has all UNSC? Yeah, Arbiter wins.

Chief wins.

ala Halo 3 intro, the Chief can easily spot cloaked Elite's even while recovering from falling two miles.

Plus UNSC weapons > Covvie. Only good Covenant weapon is the energy sword.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Chief wins.

ala Halo 3 intro, the Chief can easily spot cloaked Elite's even while recovering from falling two miles.

Plus UNSC weapons > Covvie. Only good Covenant weapon is the energy sword. 1. No he doesn't.

2. You mean the Arbiter that wasn't trying to sneak up on him?

3. No they aren't. Only good UNSC weapons are the Shotgun(Flood killing) and the Battle Rifle. Arbiter has a Needler. Nuff said.

Fvck the needler. Covenant are only good at killing marines. Don't make me post Haloid.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Chief wins.

ala Halo 3 intro, the Chief can easily spot cloaked Elite's even while recovering from falling two miles.

Plus UNSC weapons > Covvie. Only good Covenant weapon is the energy sword.

Well logically, plasma weaponry would be better than projectile weapons. That is, if novel physics are applied(idunno if that can be done here). If its game, then they're roughly equal, Plasma rifle takes shields down quicker but is less harmless on an unshielded enemy whereas the Assault rifle is better for that.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No he doesn't.

Yes, he does.



Doesn't matter. Chief can still see him. And he's killed HUNDREDS of Invisible Elties. What makes Arbiter so special?




Needler is useless. Chief's dealt with Elites with needlers before, no contest.

They split an even 5/10.

Master Chief has shown time and again cloaking is nothing to him...and he killed more than his fair share of Elites. In fact he has made a career out of killing Elites.

The Arbiter is a beast as implied by his rank. Not to mention he was a badass in Halo 2.

Only real problem is that if they were to fight prior to the events of Halo 3 I believe the Chief would have an advantage because the Arbiter is somewhat fixated on the Chief for everything he has caused him.

Anyways I say they split even...or that the Chief might win it 6/10 if Cortana is there to back him up.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Yes, he does.



Doesn't matter. Chief can still see him. And he's killed HUNDREDS of Invisible Elties. What makes Arbiter so special?




Needler is useless. Chief's dealt with Elites with needlers before, no contest. 1. No he doesn't.

2. Elites are promoted by kill count, he had one of the highest ranks and has shown to be beyond all other Elites.

3. Right, because any random Elite is given the name Arbiter...wait, no they aren't. In fact, Arbiter succeeded most others who bore the name, as the others died in their missions, Arbiter lasted far longer than expected.

What, Because he can kill stupid worthless marines? Marines are da *** gay.

Originally posted by Furion
What, Because he can kill stupid worthless marines? Marines are da *** gay. No, because he can kill armies of Flood and Covenant Heretics.

Master Chief takes it after a really hard fight.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
No, because he can kill armies of Flood and Covenant Heretics.
So? Master Chief kicks the Flood and The Covenant's asses.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No he doesn't.

2. Elites are promoted by kill count, he had one of the highest ranks and has shown to be beyond all other Elites.

3. Right, because any random Elite is given the name Arbiter...wait, no they aren't. In fact, Arbiter succeeded most others who bore the name, as the others died in their missions, Arbiter lasted far longer than expected.

Yeah. Arbiter>> all other Elites. They say the Arbiter position is like a suicide rank which is given as a disgrace or punishment, but the thing is, this Arbiter didnt die. He's that badass. He was actually a Special ops Elite(Spec Ops leader in fact) before he became Arbiter which are the most skilled fighters within the Elites chosen for the most difficult and dangerous operations.

Originally posted by Furion
So? Master Chief kicks the Flood and The Covenant's asses. And Arbiter does too. Hell, if the fight gets up close, Arbiter will DOMINATE.

Sure, Dark-Jaxx, Arbiter is not chanceless.. but you dont seem to know much of what your talking about..

Chief wins, but with a little effort.. It wont exactly be a dance on roses for him..

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No he doesn't.

2. Elites are promoted by kill count, he had one of the highest ranks and has shown to be beyond all other Elites.

3. Right, because any random Elite is given the name Arbiter...wait, no they aren't. In fact, Arbiter succeeded most others who bore the name, as the others died in their missions, Arbiter lasted far longer than expected.
It was shown that in 'The Heretic' video that he was a Gold elite, which meant zealot, the only rank above zealot is the chancellor elite.

However, while Chief has not encountered any Elites of the chancellor rank, he has killed a respectable number of gold elites throughout his travels.

Chief has been through countless suicide missions. The Arbiter's been through...what, one? Two?
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And Arbiter does too. Hell, if the fight gets up close, Arbiter will DOMINATE.
Chief has taken a special operations Elite armed with a plasma sword, in close quarters melee with no shields.

Originally posted by DarkC
It was shown that in 'The Heretic' video that he was a Gold elite, which meant zealot, the only rank above zealot is the chancellor elite.

However, while Chief has not encountered any Elites of the chancellor rank, he has killed a respectable number of gold elites throughout his travels.

Chief has been through countless suicide missions. The Arbiter's been through...what, one? Two?

Chief has taken a special operations Elite armed with a plasma sword, in close quarters melee with no shields.

When was all this?

Originally posted by braz
When was all this?
Novel. Halo: First Strike.

Originally posted by DarkC
It was shown that in 'The Heretic' video that he was a Gold elite, which meant zealot, the only rank above zealot is the chancellor elite.

However, while Chief has not encountered any Elites of the chancellor rank, he has killed a respectable number of gold elites throughout his travels.

Chief has been through countless suicide missions. The Arbiter's been through...what, one? Two?

Chief has taken a special operations Elite armed with a plasma sword, in close quarters melee with no shields. 1. Right, and Arbiter is above that.

2. And Arbiter is stronger than them all.

3. Many actually. He was so successful the Prophets had to betray him.

4. And none of them on Arbiter's level.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Right, and Arbiter is above that.
I just said he was originally a Gold elite, a zealot.

How is an Arbiter "above" that, in heirarchy/ranking? You're clutching at straws.

He's not some "super"-Elite, he's just a normal one, albeit with a lot more skill and experience than your average blue-level rookie or the red-level veterans. Nothing more.

Technically he isn't harder to take down, at least in terms of damage absorption, than a typical Elite. Physically, Master Chief is about the same level of strong as an Elite, but with an edge on reflexes and speed.


Not many. Several.

And has he ever beaten five hundred to one odds? No, he hasn't.

Be realistic.

Arbiter, while having prodigious skill, is used to being a ship master, not used to hand to hand combat. He doesn't have quite the same amount of martial skill with an energy sword than a special operations Elite, who seem to favour the sword as their go-to weapon.

As I said, Chief had a major disadvantage during that fight with the special operations Elite. He was already fairly exhausted from "days of nonstop fighting on Halo" (direct quote) and of course his shield wasn't recharging, and he still wins against the Elite.

If it was a fully refreshed and battle-ready Master Chief against the Arbiter, Chief wins.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Arbiter wins. He already has a camo advantage
Which isn't exactly insanely difficult to see through.

Remember, Chief has had experience taking down camouflauged Elites. Even while stealthed, traces of motion still flicker on the motion detector and it'll give the Spartan an idea of what to expect.


Covenant ground weapons, while futuristic, don't exactly have superior destructive capability to that of human technology. The humans can hold their own in a ground engagement, if what you said is true then they'd be getting their asses whipped on the ground too.

Think of it this way. A bullet can tear through your spine and kill you instantly, a plasma shot hitting in the same place will burn and hurt like the seven hells but you'll live.

It even said in the prologue of Halo: The Fall of Reach that the Covenant, after taking a fair taste from UNSC troops on the surface, just fall back into space and glass the planet from orbit. Pussies.

Originally posted by DarkC
Novel. Halo: First Strike.

Wait, black-clad Elites are special ops? But still, he almost died in that, and he wouldve if it werent for the Marines behind him that shot the Elite.

Originally posted by DarkC
Which isn't exactly insanely difficult to see through.

Remember, Chief has had experience taking down camouflauged Elites. Even while stealthed, traces of motion still flicker on the motion detector and it'll give the Spartan an idea of what to expect.


Covenant ground weapons, while futuristic, don't exactly have superior destructive capability to that of human technology. The humans can hold their own in a ground engagement, if what you said is true then they'd be getting their asses whipped on the ground too.

Think of it this way. A bullet can tear through your spine and kill you instantly, a plasma shot hitting in the same place will burn and hurt like the seven hells but you'll live.

It even said in the prologue of Halo: The Fall of Reach that the Covenant, after taking a fair taste from UNSC troops on the surface, just fall back into space and glass the planet from orbit. Pussies.

Ok buddy, I think ur underrating plasma weaponry alot here man. And not to mention the Arbiter. U obviously have no clue what ur talking about. Well, to an extent. A plasma bolt burning at 5000+ degrees wont just 'burn like hell and not kill u' it most likely, more often than not crater a hole in ur chest about the size of a basketball, whereas its kinda rare that a bullet makes it through ur spine killing/paralyzing u. Hell, one bullet wont even kill u most likely, u have to hit vital organs or like u said their spinal column. And the Covenant probably fell back because they didn't want to suffer any unnecessary losses. Why not just glass the planet from afar in orbit rather than possibly losing any valid troops? The Covenant were about overkill and thats what they did.
As for Arbiter, I would say he is very adept in h2h combat cuz dude he was a special ops elite, but now a leader, but in order to get there he had to have the skill to be a spec ops one in the first place. I'd say Arbiter still has what it takes to rape major ass with the sword, not to mention watching with my own eyes how he performed with me on halo 3

Originally posted by braz
Ok buddy, I think ur underrating plasma weaponry alot here man. And not to mention the Arbiter. U obviously have no clue what ur talking about. Well, to an extent.A plasma bolt burning at 5000+ degrees wont just 'burn like hell and not kill u' it most likely, more often than not crater a hole in ur chest about the size of a basketball,
I think it's very ironic that you're the one telling me that I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

Assessing damage, plasma burns are instantaneous and while the temperature that it's stored at is insanely high, it dissipates very quickly, unlike a flamethrower. It's like waving your hand through a flame essentially, in this case so hot that it still causes severe injury.

According to astrophysicist Eric Nylund, who wrote First Strike and Fall of Reach, plasma burns, it doesn't blow a hole in anything. There's no real force to it, only a magnetic bubble of superheated metallic ions. It would give it some punch, but not the same amount of concussive force as a bullet.

So in short, yes. It would burn like shit, melt through muscle and bone and skin, but a single shot shouldn't kill unless in a vital area. Much like a bullet.

Sorry, but all that is just noise. I'm talking about what only one bullet or cartridge could do, which in much of UNSC-based weaponry comes in abundance anyways.

So if I aimed at your center of mass and sprayed with an assault rifle the chances of me hitting your spinal cord or a vital organ is rare? Because that's what you're pretty much telling me here.

They needed to put troops on the ground because all they were after in the first place were Forerunner "artifacts", or pieces of Forerunner technology. And the humans were in their way. Heavily.

You obviously don't know your stuff. It was mentioned several times throughout the series, such as the "Regret" level in Halo 2 and in the First Strike novel.

Wrong again.

First of all, as I mentioned above, he is based as a ship master according to literature, not a troop master. He isn't special operations, he's a zealot. Notice the gold armor on him?

Covenant heirarchy doesn't work like that. A ship master doesn't instantaneously become a ground commander. Arbiter does have martial skill inherent in most Elites, and the experience as a leader and commander. He's adept at hand to hand yes, but what I'm saying is that he's not much, if any, better than special operations elites.
Originally posted by braz
Wait, black-clad Elites are special ops? But still, he almost died in that, and he wouldve if it werent for the Marines behind him that shot the Elite.
He almost died because of that ballsy move, he had his forearm up to pin the swordsman by the throat, so the Elite had an opening to attempt to saw Chief's arm off. And it was fairly even before Chief pulled it, which is testament to his abilities considering the state he was in.

Originally posted by DarkC
I think it's very ironic that you're the one telling me that I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

Assessing damage, plasma burns are instantaneous and while the temperature that it's stored at is insanely high, it dissipates very quickly, unlike a flamethrower. It's like waving your hand through a flame essentially, in this case so hot that it still causes severe injury.

According to astrophysicist Eric Nylund, who wrote First Strike and Fall of Reach, plasma burns, it doesn't blow a hole in anything. There's no real force to it, only a magnetic bubble of superheated metallic ions. It would give it some punch, but not the same amount of concussive force as a bullet.

So in short, yes. It would burn like shit, melt through muscle and bone and skin, but a single shot shouldn't kill unless in a vital area. Much like a bullet.

Sorry, but all that is just noise. I'm talking about what only one bullet or cartridge could do, which in much of UNSC-based weaponry comes in abundance anyways.

So if I aimed at your center of mass and sprayed with an assault rifle the chances of me hitting your spinal cord or a vital organ is rare? Because that's what you're pretty much telling me here.

They needed to put troops on the ground because all they were after in the first place were Forerunner "artifacts", or pieces of Forerunner technology. And the humans were in their way. Heavily.

You obviously don't know your stuff. It was mentioned several times throughout the series, such as the "Regret" level in Halo 2 and in the First Strike novel.

Wrong again.

First of all, as I mentioned above, he is based as a ship master according to literature, not a troop master. He isn't special operations, he's a zealot. Notice the gold armor on him?

Covenant heirarchy doesn't work like that. A ship master doesn't instantaneously become a ground commander. Arbiter does have martial skill inherent in most Elites, and the experience as a leader and commander. He's adept at hand to hand yes, but what I'm saying is that he's not much, if any, better than special operations elites.

He almost died because of that ballsy move, he had his forearm up to pin the swordsman by the throat, so the Elite had an opening to attempt to saw Chief's arm off. And it was fairly even before Chief pulled it, which is testament to his abilities considering the state he was in.

Ooookkkaaayy, so why is plasma weaponry considered to be so superior to projectile-based weapons??? Cuz dude, if it can freakin penetrate solid steel walls and making metal molten, then it would def rip your chest open with ease, it would create a huge wound. Not to mention, it moves slower, so whats the point of it?? That is assuming everything you're saying is entirely accurate.

I was talking about a single-shot weapon like if I just got shot once cuz u said one bullet, what would most likely happen, but an assault rifle, yeah anyone would be screwed.

And I havent heard anything about Arbiter in the novels so far, I just read on halopedia that he used to be a spec ops leader, so that would lead me to believe hes very skilled, and considering he didnt die in the arbiter rank yet when thats the very point of it, that'd show me hes really good, like on Chiefs level.

halopedia = not canon
books = canon

Originally posted by braz
Ooookkkaaayy, so why is plasma weaponry considered to be so superior to projectile-based weapons???

It's only considered that, by fools

And it's not like he was just the Arbiter for so long, a veteran or anything. He had been the Arbiter for like, what, two or three missions tops? All of the Arbiters are expected to live THAT long, at least.

Originally posted by braz
Ooookkkaaayy, so why is plasma weaponry considered to be so superior to projectile-based weapons??? Cuz dude, if it can freakin penetrate solid steel walls and making metal molten, then it would def rip your chest open with ease, it would create a huge wound. Not to mention, it moves slower, so whats the point of it?? That is assuming everything you're saying is entirely accurate.
You're missing the point entirely.

Plasma weaponry is futuristic, not technically superior. You can go and gush about it all you want, but essentially its destructive ability compared to human weaponry and ordnance is about on the same level. Apparently everything there I just said just flew over your head like an errant Boeing 747.

First of all, a single plasma shot, even from a Phantom, cannot penetrate solid steel. It will heat it up and soften it. An Elite sitting in a Shade plasma stationary cannon had to shoot at a bulkhead on the Pillar of Autumn repeatedly just to blow it away. Whereas a Gauss cannon on a Warthog penetrates with ease.

I just said that plasma has no significant concussive force. It would hit and burn and melt some skin and muscle and scorch your ribs. It's basically a blob of insane heat, not a solid projectile like a bullet. It wouldn't "rip" something open.

Halopedia is wrong there.

Before becoming the Arbiter, he was the ship master of Ascendant Justice, which was lost to a little boarding party of humans and ultimately the cause of the destruction of more than five hundred Covenant ships, not to mention a huge repair and command center. They got pretty pissed off at him from that.

Arbiter is good, very good, but comparing him to Chief's level is kind of pushing it.
I haven't seen nor heard of Arbiter facing down an anti-tank missile, nor leaping out into orbit with a heavy demolition bomb.

Originally posted by DarkC
You're missing the point entirely.

Plasma weaponry is futuristic, not technically superior. You can go and gush about it all you want, but essentially its destructive ability compared to human weaponry and ordnance is about on the same level. Apparently everything there I just said just flew over your head like an errant Boeing 747.

First of all, a single plasma shot, even from a Phantom, cannot penetrate solid steel. It will heat it up and soften it. An Elite sitting in a Shade plasma stationary cannon had to shoot at a bulkhead on the Pillar of Autumn repeatedly just to blow it away. Whereas a Gauss cannon on a Warthog penetrates with ease.

I just said that plasma has no significant concussive force. It would hit and burn and melt some skin and muscle and scorch your ribs. It's basically a blob of insane heat, not a solid projectile like a bullet. It wouldn't "rip" something open.

Halopedia is wrong there.

Before becoming the Arbiter, he was the ship master of Ascendant Justice, which was lost to a little boarding party of humans and ultimately the cause of the destruction of more than five hundred Covenant ships, not to mention a huge repair and command center. They got pretty pissed off at him from that.

Arbiter is good, very good, but comparing him to Chief's level is kind of pushing it.
I haven't seen nor heard of Arbiter facing down an anti-tank missile, nor leaping out into orbit with a heavy demolition bomb.

Dude, it even says in the novels how much more superior plasma weapons are to projectile-based weaponry? And that the plasma depletes energy shields quicker, and penetrates the MJOLNIR armor better. And dude, a Gauss cannon would not penetrate a bulkheard with ease, are u kidding me??

And I didnt know all that about Arbiter.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
It's only considered that, by fools

And it's not like he was just the Arbiter for so long, a veteran or anything. He had been the Arbiter for like, what, two or three missions tops? All of the Arbiters are expected to live THAT long, at least.

Well lets see, the entire video games of HALO 2 and 3, and whatever else I don't know about him being the Arbiter in EU, I'd say thats quite a bit.

Um, no it's not. The Arbiter only undergoes two missions in Halo 2, undergoes no missions in H3 as he's no longer the Arbiter, and everything he does he does alongside the Chief, so it doesn't count. And he's in NO EU, whereas the Chief is in several.

So no it's not much at all. The Arbiter only underwent two missions as the Arbiter before being branded as a Heretic. Not too mention all TWO missiosn that he did as Arbiter, Chief does on a regular basis.


And the two missions, the first one was to kill the Heretic Leader. The second one was to retrieve the index. After he completed the second one Tarterus betrayed him. So yeah two missions tops as Arbiter. Only two "suicide" missions.

Originally posted by braz
Dude, it even says in the novels how much more superior plasma weapons are to projectile-based weaponry? And that the plasma depletes energy shields quicker, and penetrates the MJOLNIR armor better.

No it doesn't. It actually says that regular Human ammo penetrates MJOLNIR armor better. Covvie weapons just deplete shields quicker.

Neither you nor Violent Jaxx really has a leg to stand on.. neither of you have read the books or anything.. You don't really know what you're talking about, no offense intended.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
No it doesn't. It actually says that regular Human ammo penetrates MJOLNIR armor better. Covvie weapons just deplete shields quicker.

Neither you nor Violent Jaxx really has a leg to stand on.. neither of you have read the books or anything.. You don't really know what you're talking about, no offense intended.



This is funny. I have read the novels! All of Fall of Reach, and parts of First Strike and the Flood. And they said it burns right through metal as well as the MJOLNIR armor whereas bullets deflected off it when John first tried it on when all the other Spartans watched. It even says for the most part that its fully ballistic proof whereas plasma can still burn through. The plasma torpdeos from the Covenant ships were burning through meter by meter-thick of solid steel walls or whatever alloy/metal they had that was even better on human ships.

Btw, thats in the game only that bullets work better on the armor for game mechanics sake so it'll be fair.

I'm sorry. I misinterpreted what you typed when you said you didn't know about Arbiter in EU.

You're comparing different forms of the plasma weaponry. The Covvie ship's plasma is, obviously, much more powerful and concentrated. It's designed to force through and burn ship hulls. Infantry weapons are different, though. The MJOLNIR armor can withstand a minimal amount of plasma shots.

Bullets DO affect MJOLNOR armor. otherwise the Chief would not have to worry about Human Flood forms shooting human ammo at him. Even in the books he has to be weary of Flood using human weapons. If they just bounced off why would he need to worry about it?

As ship to ship based weapons, yes. Not as hand weapons.

Try again.


I am not kidding you, and if you're too ignorant of the facts to actually realise how things work in the Halo universe it isn't my problem.

I'll give you the first one, but not the second. Halsey affirmed that the MJOLNIR was immune to most forms of small munitions fire, but not heavy caliber.

As for the gauss cannon, it's like a mini-MAC gun mounted on top of a Warthog. It's a superdense shell fired at supersonic speeds, and tears through Covenant hull and human plate with ease. Of course it could punch through a bulkhead; if not on the first shot, make a huge dent.
Originally posted by braz
And they said it burns right through metal as well as the MJOLNIR armor whereas bullets deflected off it when John first tried it on when all the other Spartans watched.

The plasma torpdeos from the Covenant ships were burning through meter by meter-thick of solid steel walls or whatever alloy/metal they had that was even better on human ships.
I think it's stupid how you compare ship-to-ship based plasma torpedoes to the smaller bolts fired by their ground troops. Did you not see the size of one of those torpedoes in the Halo: CE cinematic after the Pillar of Autumn level? Since there is no atmosphere nor gravity to dissipate the plasma, of course it would "burn" through.

Under test conditions, the first batch of MJOLNIR as I said before, deflected small caliber rounds to an extent, but that's it. You didn't seem to take in the fact that standard issue MA5B ammunition is armor peircing.

Oh right, so the Chief could have just stood still in that tent and let the marines shoot away at him blithely because it's "fully" ballistic proof, right?

Terrible point there. MJOLNIR is not even close to being fully ballistic proof, under fire from an MA5B or just a single round from a Warthog chaingun.


Wrong, after the discovery of the Covenant they fixed the MJOLNIR storywise to better fight against the new weaponry. This just goes back to what I said before; plasma burns and heats up the armor and scorches what's underneath, but AP bullets are good at punching through.

In the Ghosts of Onyx novel after the Spartans made their escape, they acknowledged the fact that a single AP round could very possibly make it through their armor, compromising themselves.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. Elites are promoted by kill count, he had one of the highest ranks and has shown to be beyond all other Elites.

Right and they gave the Arbiter a (and I quote from Halo 2): outdated suit.

Originally posted by DarkC
As ship to ship based weapons, yes. Not as hand weapons.

Try again.


Acknowledged. It just seems that if it was good for one purpose that it'd be good for small arms or hand weapons.

Originally posted by DarkC
I am not kidding you, and if you're too ignorant of the facts to actually realise how things work in the Halo universe it isn't my problem.

I'll give you the first one, but not the second. Halsey affirmed that the MJOLNIR was immune to most forms of small munitions fire, but not heavy caliber.

As for the gauss cannon, it's like a mini-MAC gun mounted on top of a Warthog. It's a superdense shell fired at supersonic speeds, and tears through Covenant hull and human plate with ease. Of course it could punch through a bulkhead; if not on the first shot, make a huge dent.



I think it's stupid how you compare ship-to-ship based plasma torpedoes to the smaller bolts fired by their ground troops. Did you not see the size of one of those torpedoes in the Halo: CE cinematic after the Pillar of Autumn level? Since there is no atmosphere nor gravity to dissipate the plasma, of course it would "burn" through.

Under test conditions, the first batch of MJOLNIR as I said before, deflected small caliber rounds to an extent, but that's it. You didn't seem to take in the fact that standard issue MA5B ammunition is armor peircing.


Yeah, but I would think that the Assault Rifle is considered to be small arms fire, despite it being AP, thats only for lightly armed targets, and the MJOLNIR is the most advanced piece of technology the humans possessed. Imo, it could stop several Assault Rifle AP rounds, w/o shields but would eventually penetrate. Plasma would work better though, remember, it only took one plasma bolt to penetrate Sams MJOLNIR suit, or to severely and mortally injure him, probably melting the metal inside and welding it to his skin.

And the atmosphere shouldnt dissipate it at all, thats what the Covenant was able to get passed with their tech supposedly, because isnt that the very reason why we dont have plasma weapons now in real life, because it dissipates? And I didnt know the Gauss was that powerful, but I wouldnt go so much as to say its a mini Magnetic Accelerator Cannon. Those things were insane, I'd say a mini MAC is more like the Scorpion tanks cannon.

Originally posted by DarkC
Oh right, so the Chief could have just stood still in that tent and let the marines shoot away at him blithely because it's "fully" ballistic proof, right?

Terrible point there. MJOLNIR is not even close to being fully ballistic proof, under fire from an MA5B or just a single round from a Warthog chaingun.



No, but it could resist some of it.

Originally posted by DarkC
Wrong, after the discovery of the Covenant they fixed the MJOLNIR storywise to better fight against the new weaponry. This just goes back to what I said before; plasma burns and heats up the armor and scorches what's underneath, but AP bullets are good at punching through.


In the Ghosts of Onyx novel after the Spartans made their escape, they acknowledged the fact that a single AP round could very possibly make it through their armor, compromising themselves.

Yeah, it did have a referactive coating to spread the plasma out, but it still burnt through like Sams armor in that first mission with MJOLNIR.

And I find that last statement hard to believe, but it maybe true. Idunno, I havent read Ghosts of Onyx.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Right and they gave the Arbiter a (and I quote from Halo 2): outdated suit.

Thats because hes Arbiter, right? He messed up on that mission or w/e.

Originally posted by braz
Yeah, but I would think that the Assault Rifle is considered to be small arms fire, despite it being AP, thats only for lightly armed targets, and the MJOLNIR is the most advanced piece of technology the humans possessed.
They wouldn't need armor peircing in the first place if it was only "lightly" armoured targets, it defies the whole concept of armor peircing altogether. Light armor is designed to stop hollowpoint or shredder bullets to cause maximum damage to less protected hostiles, while AP just blows a clean hole and penetrates through and causes more shock.

I suggest you read Fall of Reach again, they switched to shredder rounds whenever they needed something light to be destroyed fast.

Your memory is lacking. It took quite a few shots from a plasma pistol to penetrate Sam's suit, and it didn't even melt the armor, just carbonized it(burnt it black), burnt patches away, and cooked the flesh underneath.

It's physically impossible for metal to be "welded" to flesh, as with the high temperature the flesh would already have pretty much liquidized by the time the metal stopped cooling anyways.

No, it's because of enormous power consumption, not to mention too dangerous. There's no current source of power that is strong enough to heat ions up to the temperature that plasma is reportedly to be. Humans are still trying to perfect the concept of nuclear fusion, something that is already present in the human technology of the Halo novels.

You're basing your arguments upon your own opinion, not facts nor figures.

The Gauss works almost in exactly the same way as a MAC and even uses the same material for the shells it fires. The Gauss, while proportionally much smaller, fires a smaller but also extremey dense round which also travels at supersonic speeds. Like the MAC, it uses electromagnetic technology, whereas a Scorpion's main cannon uses typical fire technology, like the tanks we have already.

It depends on where the bullet hits. If it was head on it would take maybe a third of a clip, if it hit the black matte underneath, only a few rounds.

And Sam's armor was penetrated, as I said before, after a number of shots to his side.

It was actually a reference to what happened to Sam, he died because of a single hole in his suit. They really didn't want that to happen again.

Originally posted by DarkC
They wouldn't need armor peircing in the first place if it was only "lightly" armoured targets, it defies the whole concept of armor peircing altogether. Light armor is designed to stop hollowpoint or shredder bullets to cause maximum damage to less protected hostiles, while AP just blows a clean hole and penetrates through and causes more shock.

I suggest you read Fall of Reach again, they switched to shredder rounds whenever they needed something light to be destroyed fast.


So ur saying AP rounds for an Assault Rifle could penetrate more than just lightly armored targets? But yes, I get ur point, and they did use shredder rounds alot in Fall of Reach.

Originally posted by DarkC
Your memory is lacking. It took quite a few shots from a plasma pistol to penetrate Sam's suit, and it didn't even melt the armor, just carbonized it(burnt it black), burnt patches away, and cooked the flesh underneath.

It's physically impossible for metal to be "welded" to flesh, as with the high temperature the flesh would already have pretty much liquidized by the time the metal stopped cooling anyways.

You're right, I just read it over. It took several plasma bolts to really hurt him, but still that first one made the armor flare.

Originally posted by DarkC
No, it's because of enormous power consumption, not to mention too dangerous. There's no current source of power that is strong enough to heat ions up to the temperature that plasma is reportedly to be. Humans are still trying to perfect the concept of nuclear fusion, something that is already present in the human technology of the Halo novels.

Well yeah, that too, but its the dissipation as well, but I just read about plasma and it says it dissipates in an atmosphere no matter what, its just to what degree to u can prevent it from doing that I guess, but it always will. So it would be less powerful than in space for sure.

Originally posted by DarkC
You're basing your arguments upon your own opinion, not facts nor figures.

The Gauss works almost in exactly the same way as a MAC and even uses the same material for the shells it fires. The Gauss, while proportionally much smaller, fires a smaller but also extremey dense round which also travels at supersonic speeds. Like the MAC, it uses electromagnetic technology, whereas a Scorpion's main cannon uses typical fire technology, like the tanks we have already.

Didnt know that, but still a Gauss cannon is only 25mm, thats on an extremely small scale from that of a MAC.

Originally posted by DarkC
It depends on where the bullet hits. If it was head on it would take maybe a third of a clip, if it hit the black matte underneath, only a few rounds.
I can agree on that, I was thinking around 15 rounds, so imo plasma would be slightly better on the MJOLNIR despite what we see in the games.
Originally posted by DarkC
It was actually a reference to what happened to Sam, he died because of a single hole in his suit. They really didn't want that to happen again.
Gotcha.

Originally posted by braz
Well yeah, that too, but its the dissipation as well, but I just read about plasma and it says it dissipates in an atmosphere no matter what, its just to what degree to u can prevent it from doing that I guess, but it always will. So it would be less powerful than in space for sure.
In its natural state of matter, yes, plasma dissipates very quickly due to the high amount of atomic matter and movement, in an open container. However this isn't natural plasma we're discussion, this is Covenant plasma.

It's encased in a magnetic bubble as to prevent superheated ions from escaping into its surroundings, which is why it doesn't heat up the area around it as much as it should be. Some air molecules do collide with the plasma ions and increases movement, which increases surrounding temperature, but the rest don't. The bubble is then controlled by use of magnetic fields and linear accelerators to the intended target. After impact the bubble breaks and the plasma ions are free to go wherever, which happens pretty fast

It's actually more effective in space because with the lack of atmospheric pressure and magnetic fields that are present in most planetoids, the ions are scattered far less quickly than they would be in an environment with those factors.

Size doesn't matter, functionality does. Look at the intended targets for each kind of gun. The MAC is intended for massive ships, the Gauss for smaller vehicles or large targets. Besides, despite the small size of the actual round, it's more dense than any other found in the human arsenal.

Originally posted by DarkC
In its natural state of matter, yes, plasma dissipates very quickly due to the high amount of atomic matter and movement, in an open container. However this isn't natural plasma we're discussion, this is Covenant plasma.

It's encased in a magnetic bubble as to prevent superheated ions from escaping into its surroundings, which is why it doesn't heat up the area around it as much as it should be. Some air molecules do collide with the plasma ions and increases movement, which increases surrounding temperature, but the rest don't. The bubble is then controlled by use of magnetic fields and linear accelerators to the intended target. After impact the bubble breaks and the plasma ions are free to go wherever, which happens pretty fast

It's actually more effective in space because with the lack of atmospheric pressure and magnetic fields that are present in most planetoids, the ions are scattered far less quickly than they would be in an environment with those factors.



Yeah, so would u agree plasma is on par with human weapons, maybe even slightly better, saving AP rounds? With AP ammo or high-explosive rounds(original pistol- badass ), I'd say they're about equal, except on shields. But wait, did they used shredder rounds when Sam, Kelly and John first used MJOLNIR or AP? Because it said those rounds just peppered off the Elites energy shield like nothing.

Originally posted by braz
Yeah, so would u agree plasma is on par with human weapons, maybe even slightly better, saving AP rounds?
That's what I was originally arguing about in the first place, they're futuristic, but kill differently and has different effects.

The only instances where I remember them using shredder rounds is against the Grunt charge in the prologue and during the first Hunter encounter. The standard ammunition for an MA5B is armor peircing.

I'm pretty sure that they were firing single shots. Elite shields don't have as good overall coverage as MJOLNIR's system, it's concentrated over vital areas, so technically speaking, lucky rounds can and will make it through even if shields are up. It was shown most in Halo: First Strike.

Originally posted by DarkC
That's what I was originally arguing about in the first place, they're futuristic, but kill differently and has different effects.

The only instances where I remember them using shredder rounds is against the Grunt charge in the prologue and during the first Hunter encounter. The standard ammunition for an MA5B is armor peircing.

I'm pretty sure that they were firing single shots. Elite shields don't have as good overall coverage as MJOLNIR's system, it's concentrated over vital areas, so technically speaking, lucky rounds can and will make it through even if shields are up. It was shown most in Halo: First Strike.

I believe plasma is slightly better, it works better on energy shielding and a little better on the MJOLNIR. And on unarmored targets, plasma would be a little better imo because it cauterizes a bigger wound. Unless you use an AP shell, that will just tear straight through u like nothing. I'd say theyre equal there.

Originally posted by braz
I believe plasma is slightly better, it works better on energy shielding and a little better on the MJOLNIR. And on unarmored targets, plasma would be a little better imo because it cauterizes a bigger wound. Unless you use an AP shell, that will just tear straight through u like nothing. I'd say theyre equal there.
I think you kind of contradicted yourself there on the cauterizing bit. What you suggested is that it pretty much seals off the wound caused by plasma immediately because of the extreme heat, which just leaves behind a mass of inert, charred flesh, yet there's still a wound?

There's been no injuries related to plasma so far, in either the books or the games, that are anything but "burn"-related.

Originally posted by DarkC
I think you kind of contradicted yourself there on the cauterizing bit. What you suggested is that it pretty much seals off the wound caused by plasma immediately because of the extreme heat, which just leaves behind a mass of inert, charred flesh, yet there's still a wound?

There's been no injuries related to plasma so far, in either the books or the games, that are anything but "burn"-related.

Dude, by cauterizing I meant burning it and making the wound larger, I didnt mean sealing it off, dunno where u got that from. Because thats what cauterization from plasma/laser weapons usually does in sci-fi.

Originally posted by braz
Dude, by cauterizing I meant burning it and making the wound larger, I didnt mean sealing it off, dunno where u got that from. Because thats what cauterization from plasma/laser weapons usually does in sci-fi.
Factually, cauterization is the process of closing off a part of the body, such as a serious wound, by burning it closed, forming a carbonized sort of seal. I don't know what sci-fis you've been watching or where your definition of "cauterization" comes from, but the temperature of plasma is high enough to seal a flesh wound almost instantaneously.

Look at a pretty popular pop culture series: Star Wars. When did anyone "bleed" noticably after being struck by a laser bolt? Remember in the first movie, after Maul gets sliced in half, the two halves of him that fall don't so much drip a single drop of blood after the initial slice.

Originally posted by DarkC
Factually, cauterization is the process of closing off a part of the body, such as a serious wound, by burning it closed, forming a carbonized sort of seal. I don't know what sci-fis you've been watching or where your definition of "cauterization" comes from, but the temperature of plasma is high enough to seal a flesh wound almost instantaneously.

Look at a pretty popular pop culture series: Star Wars. When did anyone "bleed" noticably after being struck by a laser bolt? Remember in the first movie, after Maul gets sliced in half, the two halves of him that fall don't so much drip a single drop of blood after the initial slice.

Oh so thats what it means. To seal it off, nvm, Im an idiot lol. I thought it like, because it was so hot, the wound would continue to spread, making it bleed more. But still plasma/lasers doesnt always not show blood, plasma can still spill alot of blood, like in HALO u see all the dead Marines with gallons of blood all around their corpses. And like in Predator/AVP movies, that plasma shoulder cannon was pretty gruesome. In Star Wars, I think they didnt show that kind of gore because they wanted to keep it PG. Otherwise, if they wanted it to be more along the lines of a horror sci-fi film like Predator, they wouldve done that and George Lucas wasnt into that.

Originally posted by braz
Oh so thats what it means. To seal it off, nvm, Im an idiot lol. I thought it like, because it was so hot, the wound would continue to spread, making it bleed more. But still plasma/lasers doesnt always not show blood, plasma can still spill alot of blood, like in HALO u see all the dead Marines with gallons of blood all around their corpses. And like in Predator/AVP movies, that plasma shoulder cannon was pretty gruesome. In Star Wars, I think they didnt show that kind of gore because they wanted to keep it PG. Otherwise, if they wanted it to be more along the lines of a horror sci-fi film like Predator, they wouldve done that and George Lucas wasnt into that.
It isn't scientifically accurate then to have blood from plasma-related injuries around a marine. Needler, yes, even a plasma grenade would blow someone apart and spray blood but not an actual bolt. it's probably just a game mechanic.

Burns don't bleed until the skin is peirced and the burning is done (like a 3rd degree burn), which happens to be the most serious of all. Plasma would melt and fuse organs, but it shouldn't make victims bleed; even in the Halo novels all plasma gun-related injuries are burns.

They showed Anakin burning nearly to death, which was pretty goddamn disturbing. I personally think blood is nothing compared to that; but you did see vaporized blood and hear sizzling when Obi's lightsaber slashed Maul in half, which suggested complete cauterization.

Originally posted by DarkC
It isn't scientifically accurate then to have blood from plasma-related injuries around a marine. Needler, yes, even a plasma grenade would blow someone apart and spray blood but not an actual bolt. it's probably just a game mechanic.

Burns don't bleed until the skin is peirced and the burning is done (like a 3rd degree burn), which happens to be the most serious of all. Plasma would melt and fuse organs, but it shouldn't make victims bleed; even in the Halo novels all plasma gun-related injuries are burns.

They showed Anakin burning nearly to death, which was pretty goddamn disturbing. I personally think blood is nothing compared to that; but you did see vaporized blood and hear sizzling when Obi's lightsaber slashed Maul in half, which suggested complete cauterization.

Wait, so ur saying the plasma in the HALO universe doesnt pierce the skin?

But what about like in Predator, you've seen that right?

Originally posted by braz
Wait, so ur saying the plasma in the HALO universe doesnt pierce the skin?

But what about like in Predator, you've seen that right?
You misunderstand me, it's only bleeding after only the skin has been burnt away and the burning part has stopped. Which is a 3rd degree burn.

It's essentially a blob that melts through, of course it would burn through and penetrate the skin, but it's not a maintained heat. It sears long enough to burn severely and then cauterize almost instantaneously, then disappears.

And no, I've only seen Alien vs Predator, and their shoulder mounted plasma gun (whose plasma blob looks more realistic than in Halo) doesn't appear to make its victims bleed.

halo <> predator
and yea, plasma bolts in halo doesnt piece the skin, just burns the living **** outta whoever gets hit..

Originally posted by DarkC
And no, I've only seen Alien vs Predator, and their shoulder mounted plasma gun (whose plasma blob looks more realistic than in Halo) doesn't appear to make its victims bleed.

In Predator 1 the Pred shoots Jesse Ventura with his bolt caster and it goes right through him and leaves like this two foot wide hole in him. There's blood everywhere.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
In Predator 1 the Pred shoots Jesse Ventura with his bolt caster and it goes right through him and leaves like this two foot wide hole in him. There's blood everywhere.

Yeah, not to mention, 3 other soldiers got pretty messed up by that thing. Mac got his head blown hollow with blood everywhere and Dillon had his arm shot clean off. Real gorey as well.

Originally posted by MadMel
halo <> predator
and yea, plasma bolts in halo doesnt piece the skin, just burns the living **** outta whoever gets hit..

So how the hell is it even lethal if it doesnt penetrate ur skin?? that just doesnt make sense.

Originally posted by DarkC
You misunderstand me, it's only bleeding after only the skin has been burnt away and the burning part has stopped. Which is a 3rd degree burn.

It's essentially a blob that melts through, of course it would burn through and penetrate the skin, but it's not a maintained heat. It sears long enough to burn severely and then cauterize almost instantaneously, then disappears.

And no, I've only seen Alien vs Predator, and their shoulder mounted plasma gun (whose plasma blob looks more realistic than in Halo) doesn't appear to make its victims bleed.

Gotcha, but watch AVP again, the plasma caster there blows that acid like everywhere when that last Predator uses it, even spills its entrails iirc.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
In Predator 1 the Pred shoots Jesse Ventura with his bolt caster and it goes right through him and leaves like this two foot wide hole in him. There's blood everywhere.
Then it isn't really scientifically accurate.
Originally posted by braz
So how the hell is it even lethal if it doesnt penetrate ur skin?? that just doesnt make sense.
The extreme heat, despite the cauterization of wounds leading to no exterior bleeding, can fuse bones, organs, and tissue in a rather sloppy mess, in many cases leading to rather painful deaths.

Think about what happens if your stomach got fused with a lung.

Master Chief

Originally posted by DarkC
Then it isn't really scientifically accurate.



This is true. Was just saying.

Originally posted by DarkC
Then it isn't really scientifically accurate.

The extreme heat, despite the cauterization of wounds leading to no exterior bleeding, can fuse bones, organs, and tissue in a rather sloppy mess, in many cases leading to rather painful deaths.

Think about what happens if your stomach got fused with a lung.

So it does penetrate the skin, just not in a way that it spills any exterior blood. Gotcha. I'd say plasma and bullets in Halo are roughly equal in lethality. Except in space vacuum of course.

Hmm... though fight. The Master Chief is the better fighter, but giving the Arbiter Covenant weapons is kinda unfair....


They will kill each other.

"Plasma weapons being superior" is a massive misconception.

Arbiter dies, plain and simple. No covvie weapon will help him.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
"Plasma weapons being superior" is a massive misconception.

Arbiter dies, plain and simple. No covvie weapon will help him.

I'd say their weapons are about equal to the UNSC, they just work better on energy shields.

And while I have respect for the skill level of the Arbiter, the Elite hasn't seen nearly as much combat and so does not have nearly as much experience as the Chief does. The SPARTANs, despite being trained for anything possible military-wise, are meant for ground operations.

Originally posted by DarkC
And while I have respect for the skill level of the Arbiter, the Elite hasn't seen nearly as much combat and so does not have nearly as much experience as the Chief does. The SPARTANs, despite being trained for anything possible military-wise, are meant for ground operations.

Spartans >> Elites. See I used to think it was the other way around, but when I read the books about all their enhancements and stuff and what they really were, I knew they were better.

They are pretty much equal when it comes to physical stats. Problem with Master Chief is that he IS extremely tenacious and resourceful. Not to mention his jobber aura is off the charts.

What?

He does have Jobber Aura. I call MC's JA his inherent good luck that even Cortana could not explain but knew it was there.