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There will be three seperate matches.

The first match will be in an open areana with each combant only given a knife. Logan's healing factor will be stripped for the match. Each opponet will be given three months to get familar with the weapon and current status. Wolverine will be unable to use his claws and is also with out the aid of his adamatium.

The second match is in a jungle that spreads 500 years apart and each will be set on one end. They will only be given a machine gun. Wolverine has his healing factor and adamatium stripped. They get 3 months off time to get use to there current status and weapon.

There final match will be another open areana match. This match Wolverines powers will not be stripped. Punisher has a assualt riftle with 4 clips, hand gun with two clips and a rocket luancher with two missles and a knife. start 100 feat apart.

Who wins which matches and why.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
There will be three seperate matches.

The first match will be in an open areana with each combant only given a knife. Logan's healing factor will be stripped for the match. Each opponet will be given three months to get familar with the weapon and current status. Wolverine will be unable to use his claws and is also with out the aid of his adamatium.

The second match is in a jungle that spreads 500 years apart and each will be set on one end. They will only be given a machine gun. Wolverine has his healing factor and adamatium stripped. They get 3 months off time to get use to there current status and weapon.

There final match will be another open areana match. This match Wolverines powers will not be stripped. Punisher has a assualt riftle with 4 clips, hand gun with two clips and a rocket luancher with two missles and a knife. start 100 feat apart.

1. very tough match...I'd give a slight advantage to Frank because

a) Logan isn't used to fighting without claws
b) Logan is used to being reckless, which ain't a good thing without a HF saving your ass
c) Frank has longer reach (being over 6 feet compared to the midget that Logan is)

so Punisher 6/10

2. Wolverine 8/10 - he can smell Frank and know exactly where Frank is but Punisher will have trouble tracking Logan

3. Wolverine 6/10...not sure about this one

Originally posted by Master-Borg
1. very tough match...I'd give a slight advantage to Frank because

a) Logan isn't used to fighting without claws
b) Logan is used to being reckless, which ain't a good thing without a HF saving your ass
c) Frank has longer reach (being over 6 feet compared to the midget that Logan is)

so Punisher 6/10

2. Wolverine 8/10 - he can smell Frank and know exactly where Frank is but Punisher will have trouble tracking Logan

3. Wolverine 6/10...not sure about this one
Interesting. Nice input. I am not saying your wrong, but here some information that you likly do not possess of Wolverine. Logan was fighting with out the knowledge of his claws for decades. he has fought with out the use of his claws for as long if not longer then he has with them Logan did not start really using his claws untill after the weapon x program. Which means he was fighting with out them since WW1 till then for the most part. Logan relied on weapons like swords and knifes which he favor. Knifes were the weapon he fought with most through out the many war's he fought.

As for the HF, he was given three months to cope with the changes which is more then enough time to adapted. Logan has done soo with far less time in the past.

Frank is very reckless individual as well.

Now for the hieght advantage. Punisher though is taller and longer reach also is a larger target, and worse centure of gravity.

Logan being smaller grant makes him harder to hit, it also gives him a great centure of balance. Also He is trained and master of numerous martial arts which allows him to overcome any reach advantage. He also has villains such as Ogun, silver samuria, Lady death strike ect. who all have a massive reach advantage and it never has been a problem for him, becuases like any good martial artiest he has trained to overcome such difficulties.


food for thought .

bump

Castle 7/10. for a simple reason that he's more experienced with knives and has used them on many, many occassions. he even beat bullseye in a knife fight.
however, we can't forget that before wolverine knew he was a mutant he was an expert knife fighter himself.
i'm leaning towards castle since he's more focused, less reckless and has longer arm reach. oh and he also has the size advantage.


hmmm...i think punisher is better at guirella warfare. he has experience in nam, and has also fought in many jungles against enemies. he even took out a mafia stronghold with weapons made out of bearbones and teeth.
Logan is also an expert and his enhanced senses will be a great help. however, he's too reckless. i doubt his habits of being reckless will stop just cuz one day he can't use his HF and adamantium.
there was a wolverine/punisher crossover where they both were supposed to escape from some badguys in a jungle. wolverine got caught cuz of his recklessness but frank managed to save logan AND kill all the guys.
based on this, i'm sticking with Frank. but i'm open to opinions.
Punisher 5.5/10.


open arena? wolverine 10/10
we all know that frank can't beat logan in a straight up fight. the only we he's done it is by outsmarting him, or by using guirella warfare.

~Sado

Logan takes the first and third fairly easily.

Dunno about the second scenario.

battlehammer, calm down and learn to read. i said this:

stop being such a baby


and yet he is iconic for his bad temper and reckless nature. oh and i almost forget berserker rage. and stop playing the MA card. we all know that you can spend 20 years of your life learning MA and still brawl when the time comes to fight. Steve Rogers on the other hand IS focused.
also logan hasn't used a knife for a long time. a few decades to be precise.


arm length and size are the same thing?
get real man. is said size because size matters in a fight. one of them is a 5''3 pieceofshit and the other guy is heavy set 6"4 guy. and not to mention logan is the storky type with short arms and legs. also if logan has faced those guys (with his claws and healing factor and not a damn knife which is what this thread is about) i only need to bring up frank beating the likes of Bullseye IN A KNIFE fight.


they keyword was "guirella warfare". you don't fight guirella warfare on open land or at sea or at the beach.


that's a real feat. bet it took a lot out of him too


so does frank. and the last time we saw, frank took him out with rocket launcher after preperation. he's also downed him without preperation. twice.


like when his eye grew right back and he was too dumb to figure out that it wasn't normal. and without knowledge doesn't mean that he didn't rely on it. you're not even making any sense.

~Sado

Match 1: Toss up. Punisher is a better knife fighter and has been training with them alot nowadays and Logan might be out of practice. Now Logan finds a way to disarm Frank and get it down to H2H Logan should win every time. He's on another level when it comes to martial arts.

Match 2: Punisher for the simple fact that he's better with guns, guerilla warfare, and Logan might still be reckless and thinks he's a bullet resistant magnet. He might have 3 months but he will follow his intincts.

Match 3: Typical Wolverine vs Punisher fight. Wolverine win almost every time unless Punisher has prep.

word.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Because Logan average portayial has not been such in decades, he actually extremely calm combatant. He does not lose his temper in battle and he not that reckless and even less so when his healing factor has been taken from him.

Punisher is not any more calm or less reckless then Logan.
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinevsdaredeviloa3.jpg

you've lost all credibility...WOlverine is calm? hahahah yeah that's the first thing I think when I hear 'Wolverine'...Calm!

and yeah Punisher is more reckless...after all he jumps into machine gun fire and eats rockets for breakfast

Originally posted by Master-Borg
you've lost all credibility...WOlverine is calm? hahahah yeah that's the first thing I think when I hear 'Wolverine'...Calm!

and yeah Punisher is more reckless...after all he jumps into machine gun fire and eats rockets for breakfast
Not at all. If you read wolverine regularlly you know this. He can and is a very calm combatant, he does not simply fly off the handle as soon as a fight beggins. Hell this was shown in his current run with DP. It took DP all day before he was able to get Logan mad enough to actually fight to kill him.

sorry, but if you can take machine gun fire and rockets it far from reckless to allow one self to be hit by them.

Thats like saying supermans reckless to let bullets hit him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not at all. If you read wolverine regularlly you know this. He can and is a very calm combatant, he does not simply fly off the handle as soon as a fight beggins. Hell this was shown in his current run with DP. It took DP all day before he was able to get Logan mad enough to actually fight to kill him.

sorry, but if you can take machine gun fire and rockets it far from reckless to allow one self to be hit by them.

Thats like saying supermans reckless to let bullets hit him. unlike superman, Logan's HF is taxed by injuries...so the more it has to work, the weaker he gets. So it is reckless to jump into machine gun fire if he could avoid it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not at all. If you read wolverine regularlly you know this.

I've read enough Wolverine to judge him. He does not strike me as a 'calm' fella.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
ahhh, good old Battlehammer, if only I got a nickle everytime you accused someone of that...I'd be filthy rich!

were did you get that quote from.'

I did not say that and then give a scann in any of my fallowing posts in this thread.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
unlike superman, Logan's HF is taxed by injuries...so the more it has to work, the weaker he gets. So it is reckless to jump into machine gun fire if he could avoid it.
Actaully thats wrong. It actaully takes more energy for him to dodge the fire. Machine gun fire can't take him out so there is no point in dodging it.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
I've read enough Wolverine to judge him. He does not strike me as a 'calm' fella.
yea you say this alot and yet prove you don't time and again.

Well maybe you should pick up some of his comics from the last decade or so. He does not flip out very often and goes berserker even less.

dam it now it page 2.


now im not gunan responding to your posts any more since your taking up spaces and making no valid points. Also I would like for my last to big posts to remain and not for page 2 to apeare. So if you wish to countinue your nonsenses, pm me.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
were did you get that quote from.'

I did not say that and then give a scann in any of my fallowing posts in this thread. your post...from 8:38 pm today...literally less than an hour ago!

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Actaully thats wrong. It actaully takes more energy for him to dodge the fire.

wait, are you actually saying it takes Logan more energy to jump than to get shot and heal? wow, I thought I'd heard everything you can say, and yet again I'm surprised.

does wolverine still have his enhanced senses?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
So if you wish to countinue your nonsenses, pm me.

ok, I apologize for spamming up your thread.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
wait, are you actually saying it takes Logan more energy to jump than to get shot and heal? wow, I thought I'd heard everything you can say, and yet again I'm surprised.
yes, why jump around dodging when you can simply runn through them with out slowing and take your opponet out with little resistances.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
ok, I apologize for spamming up your thread.
no biggy it just sucks that it now on page 2.

maybe I just repost it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes, why jump around dodging when you can simply runn through them with out slowing and take your opponet out with little resistances. why suffer through the pain of getting shot if he could easily avoid it?

battlehammer hasn't evolved enough to think that much. give him a few more centuries.


frank also spent time learning ninjitsu skills.
and he beat bullseye........IN A KNIFE FIGHT.


he uses knives more than you like to think actually. at times when he could have shot someone he opted to use throwing knives. he actually is a big fan of throwing knives in particular. read punisher armory.


compared to someone shorter, stockier, out of practice for a decade and a tendency to act rashly. logan has 3 days to practice up. good. frank has recent experience AND 3 days to catch up.


dude, stop taking yourself to seriously. if it ever comes down to it i can deconstruct everything you say and make you look like a bigger ass than usual. drop it already. you're obviously taking this all WAY too seriously.
g-r-o-w up.


your point? and didn't you say "no adamantium" which basically means that he loses those extra pounds?


logan is irrational and too hotheaded. frank isn't.

as for the issue you posted.............not the one i'm talking about, sherlock.

~Sado

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Logan has not been irrational or hotheaded in decades


this HAS to be false.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
this HAS to be false.
it not. Well actaully I should have said his common showings have not shown him to be hot headed or irrational, he has been, but the vast majority of showings from this decaded show other wise and they never seem to affected his fighting preformances.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
it not. Well actaully I should have said his common showings have not shown him to be hot headed or irrational, he has been, but the vast majority of showings from this decaded show other wise and they never seem to affected his fighting preformances.

so basically you exaggerated. obviously, no one is saying he is always hot-headed, but that is his trademark.

He always rushes into battle kamikaze style and usually doesn't have the patience to wait for his teammates.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
so basically you exaggerated. obviously, no one is saying he is always hot-headed, but that is his trademark.

He always rushes into battle kamikaze style and usually doesn't have the patience to wait for his teammates.
No I am saying that the vast majority of his showings for the last decade show him not to be irrational or hot headed.

Actually he does have the patiences. Pleases tell me were your getting this info from. For one thing he while leading x-force was the calm one telling the rest what to do. Also in the current issue of x-force to come out he actally surrenders so that one of his teammates will not be killed, but x-23 will not listen.

Then calibain death during misiah complex was due to warpath not listening to wolverine and beeing to rash.

You beeing very inaccurate on your depiction of wolverine from the last decade.

not insulting you....yet. trust me.


really? okay i know what to do.
those scans you posted are irrelevent cuz they are:
-pis
-bad writers
-bad writers who use pis


and which i told you is NOT the one i'm talking about. i'm pretty sure, though i could be wrong.


i know what a throwing knife is. i said frank uses knives and that he's a big fan of throwing knives. you still want to talk about throwing knives? well for one they spin 180 degrees every 15 feet and have to have their weight balanced on both ends.
needless to say, you're wasting my time with your rambling. i just mentioned that frank uses knives more than you'd like to think he does.


seems i don't need to:


you seem to take care of that for me

~Sado

i'm the one who posted all the scans of their later fights, and the part where he took on the three. and hulk.
so no.

as for calling you something? i don't recall calling you anything fancy. just insinuated here and there that you are an idiot. but that's about it. nothign to cry over, nancy.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
i'm the one who posted all the scans of their later fights, and the part where he took on the three. and hulk.
so no.
actaully that was all froma a single issue which you hold on to in every debate for dear life.

Originally posted by Sado22
as for calling you something? i don't recall calling you anything fancy. just insinuated here and there that you are an idiot. but that's about it. nothign to cry over, nancy.

~Sado
Another insult how wonderful.

Also this is comming fromt he person who has yet to back up a single one of his claims in this thread.

Not to be rude, but Im slowly learning to avoid any threads where "battlehammer" and "wolverine" appear together.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Not to be rude, but Im slowly learning to avoid any threads where "battlehammer" and "wolverine" appear together. you'll be hardpressed to find a thread involving Wolverine without the presence of Battlehammer

Originally posted by redhotrash
Not to be rude, but Im slowly learning to avoid any threads where "battlehammer" and "wolverine" appear together.
depends which side your on in the arguement. I have a lot of comics and know the in and outs of Wolverines abilities.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
you'll be hardpressed to find a thread involving Wolverine without the presence of Battlehammer
Depends if I feel the match up is a spite or just plain stupid I sometimes will not even reply to it or if I do I said one post.


Also I have and do debate against Wolverine as well.

you want me to back up things abotu frank everyone knows. i haven't said anything here that people dont already know. okay lets see:
-frank is a nam vet. proof? punisher: born
-frank loves knives especially throwing knives: punisher: armory, and any punisher issue from vol1 and vol2 where in the epilogue he's talking about weapons. he tells of his vast knowledge of weapons
-frank is 6"1 (thanx for the correction): wikipedia.com
-frank's got longer arm reach: common sense
-frank's got more guirella warfare experience: punisher: born, and any other punisher comic where he's in the junlge. oh and my favorite, punisher vs wolverine where they both are in the jungle and LOGAN gets caught while frank doesn't.


and here's one more:
-frank is more aware of the statistics and adv/disadv of almost every weapon to date.
-he's also can write a thesis on various kinds of knives. his knowledge on knives far and wide exceeds that of logan's. proof? punisher: armory which is several issues worth of in-depth look at frank's weapons, his miltary career and statistics on knives, grenades, boobytraps, firearms and martial arts. there is special issue where its all about disarming opponents.

so you want proof? go read them. i'm not posting a whole volume for you. and i'm pretty sure can understand why.

~Sado

and one more thing:

answer the man, battlehammer.