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I hope this is a close fight...

Trion Juggernaut (the juggernaut that punches through dimensions)

-versus-

Superman Prime


Motivation for this fight: the winner gets their most fondest wish granted.

Who wins?

supes prime wickedph

They both punch through dimensions. But one is either immune, or highly resistant to magic. The other is not.

How was trion juggernaut stopped?

Trion would destroy Superman Prime

not even close.

Originally posted by Sirius77
They both punch through dimensions. But one is either immune, or highly resistant to magic. The other is not.

How was trion juggernaut stopped? Xavier convinced Cain to stop pretty much.

Uhhh i think if SMP was dumb and decided to H2H with Juggy (which he frequently does i guess), he would be creamed but other wise stale mate

Originally posted by Sirius77
They both punch through dimensions. But one is either immune, or highly resistant to magic. The other is not.

How was trion juggernaut stopped? I don't think it matters that Cain isn't immune to magic.

It does matter that superman-prime is...

Anyways, I think that superman-prime can take this. Its not like this would be the most ridiculous battle hes been through.

Originally posted by Sirius77
It does matter that superman-prime is...

Anyways, I think that superman-prime can take this. Its not like this would be the most ridiculous battle hes been through.

Why would it matter?

And I only remember him showing resistence to the magic of Black Adam, does he have a higher showing?

Zaurel's magic sword (which is pretty uber if you follow zuarel)

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Zaurel's magic sword (which is pretty uber if you follow zuarel)

I followed Zauriel when he was in JLA, has it gotten stronger, I don't remember it being immensely powerful or anything.

Also I don't remember him hitting SBP with his sword.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why would it matter?

And I only remember him showing resistence to the magic of Black Adam, does he have a higher showing?

I am not sure, but I think Sirius is implying that Juggernaut's power is magically based (from Cytorak the god whom Dr. Strange draws energy for some spells) and would hurt Superman Prime.

Originally posted by Evangel94
I am not sure, but I think Sirius is implying that Juggernaut's power is magically based (from Cytorak the god whom Dr. Strange draws energy for some spells) and would hurt Superman Prime.

His punches would still affect SMP, it's just they wouldn't cause any extra damage from Juggs being magically empowered.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why would it matter?

And I only remember him showing resistence to the magic of Black Adam, does he have a higher showing?

Mxy, alan scott, Zatanna...

Originally posted by Mindset
I followed Zauriel when he was in JLA, has it gotten stronger, I don't remember it being immensely powerful or anything.

Also I don't remember him hitting SBP with his sword.

First panel.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/tofastforgl.jpg

"Your swords magic. But magic doesnt hurt me. Go back to your creator angel,"

Originally posted by Sirius77
Mxy, alan scott, Zatanna...

Mxy was depowered by Zatanna.

We don't see how Zatanna was captured, but I guess we can assume.

I don't remember Alan.

But like I said in a previous post, Juggs punches would still hurt SMP, it just wouldn't cause additional damage from him being magically empowered.

Originally posted by Mindset
Mxy was depowered by Zatanna.

We don't see how Zatanna was captured, but I guess we can assume.

I don't remember Alan.

But like I said in a previous post, Juggs punches would still hurt SMP, it just wouldn't cause additional damage from him being magically empowered.

I would assume that he grabbed her by her head and tossed her to the ground like he did on panel. But thats just me.

Quite obviously she was afraid of him. And whether or not myx was completely depowered or not, he still came back to the fifth dimension crying and telling his girl friend to close it so that Superman-prime would not get through. Obviously, he was a threat to myx and the entire fifth dimension going by that.

And there is a difference btween hurt and ko... and I doubt that juggernaut could ko Superman-prime if the guardians, a city of top-tiers (while he was weakened), and both corps, a moniter, and Monarch failed to do so...

Originally posted by Sirius77

And there is a difference btween hurt and ko... and I doubt that juggernaut could ko Superman-prime if the guardians, a city of top-tiers (while he was weakened), and both corps, a moniter, and Monarch failed to do so...

Were any of those characters you listed on Superboy Prime's level to begin with? Don't get me wrong, but what good is that feat if all of them were fodder (compared to Superboy Prime) to begin with?

Originally posted by Evangel94
Were any of those characters you listed on Superboy Prime's level to begin with? Don't get me wrong, but what good is that feat if all of them were fodder to begin with?

Are you talking about the corps? Or the guardians?

I could maybe see some of the corps members being fodder... but the rest? No.

Fodder when compared against Superboy Prime. I have to read it again, but none of the characters (minus a guardian self destructing for the BFR) really even hurt him.

Originally posted by Sirius77
I would assume that he grabbed her by her head and tossed her to the ground like he did on panel. But thats just me.

Quite obviously she was afraid of him. And whether or not myx was completely depowered or not, he still came back to the fifth dimension crying and telling his girl friend to close it so that Superman-prime would not get through. Obviously, he was a threat to myx and the entire fifth dimension going by that.

And there is a difference btween hurt and ko... and I doubt that juggernaut could ko Superman-prime if the guardians, a city of top-tiers (while he was weakened), and both corps, a moniter, and Monarch failed to do so...

The Mxy incident is not a good example, we know that Zatanna was depowering him (which imo shouldn't have happened), but Mxy didn't use any powers against SMP so we don't know if he could have hurt him. Mxy closing of the 5th dimension is not a sign that Mxy would be powerless to stop SMP. SMP being a threat with Zatanna does not mean him alone would have been a threat.

SMP never fought a Monarch, and the Monarchs were being beaten by people less powerful than him. A city full of top tiers that were inferior to him in strength...wow, good show. Most Gls are fodder. The Guardians only attack on SMP was one that powered him up. And Monarch would have beaten SMP as he was already losing his guardian upgrade, so...

Most those mentioned are below Trion's power level, and the ones that are, namely Monarch, would have beaten SMP.

This really shouldn't be a debate.

Trion Juggernaut pastes Superman Prime.

Prime throws him into another dimension the end.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Prime throws him into another dimension the end.

Trion punches his way out and slowly walks back.

Originally posted by Mindset
Trion punches his way out and slowly walks back. Ok Prime still wins...

Does he iceman, does he?

Originally posted by Mindset
Does he iceman, does he? Battle field removal= a win so yes he wins.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Battle field removal= a win so yes he wins.

Juggernaut punches through your battlefield removal.

Seriously, whats the point of battlefield removal when both characters can walkthrough dimensional walls like paper?

Is it considered a win if your opponent can come back?

Originally posted by Evangel94
Juggernaut punches through your battlefield removal. Lulz after the fight is over?bawling

Originally posted by Mindset
The Mxy incident is not a good example, we know that Zatanna was depowering him (which imo shouldn't have happened), but Mxy didn't use any powers against SMP so we don't know if he could have hurt him.

I agree that it should not have happened. However, the fact is that it did.

Originally posted by Mindset
Mxy closing of the 5th dimension is not a sign that Mxy would be powerless to stop SMP. SMP being a threat with Zatanna does not mean him alone would have been a threat.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/12-2.jpg

Youre completely right... Myx coming back from the the third dimension with an "S" burned into his forehead, all of his fingers broken, and bloody and beaten, DIRECTLY AFTER the fight with Superman-prime screaming and crying, saying

"Seal! Seal the dimension off! The f-fifth dimension! SEAL IT OFF! He's... there! He... IS the end!"

And considering he had both of them scared, I doubt that either of them were in a position to harm him.

Originally posted by Mindset
SMP never fought a Monarch, and the Monarchs were being beaten by people less powerful than him.

You mean a MONITER, right? There is only one monarch. And Superman-prime fought both Monarch and a moniter.

Superman-prime vs a Moniter:

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/Primemonitor.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/Primemonitor2.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/Primemonitor3.jpg

Superman-prime vs Monarch
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p02.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p03.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p04.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p05.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p06.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p07.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p08.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p16.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p19-20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p21.jpg

Originally posted by Mindset
A city full of top tiers that were inferior to him in strength...wow, good show.

He had spent a year under a junior red sun-eater, in a quantum containment field.

Then he was weakened by red star with a blast of red sun energy almost immediately.

Then the suit that supplied him with power was torn, melted, and burned off by the city of top-tiers that he took on.

Which included The Flash (whom he literally smoked while weakened, and presumeably oneshotted), Superman, Supergirl, Powergirl, Wonder-girl, Alan scott, Jo'nn, Ms Martian, Red star, Wonder woman, etc...

So, yes, it was a good showing, considering he was weakened beyond most characters level of function.

Originally posted by Mindset
Most Gls are fodder.

He killed 32 gls. More than Parallax. Thats not even counting sc.

Originally posted by Mindset
The Guardians only attack on SMP was one that powered him up.

His heat vision goes right through a Green Lantern and hits a Guardian
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/henshawblast.jpg

Takes on the Green Lantern Corps, The Sinestro Corps, and Earth's heroes at the same time. Three Guardians attack him, but that doesn't put him down. One Guardian releases all of his energy and self-destructs

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/everyoneone.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/everyoneone2.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/everyoneone3.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/everyoneone4.jpg

Originally posted by Mindset
And Monarch would have beaten SMP as he was already losing his guardian upgrade, so...

And yet, he was still owning Monarch. I doubt he even needed the upgrade to beat Monarch. Without it, it would be difficult, but he could still pull a majority imo. We'll have to see.


Originally posted by Mindset
Most those mentioned are below Trion's power level, and the ones that are, namely Monarch, would have beaten SMP.

Superman-prime did beat Monarch. Unless monarch suvived, Superman-prime won. If he did survive, he was still unable to defeat Superman-prime even in a weakened state.

And Superman-prime will win this.

Oh, and by the way, what actually makes you think that trion will win? What has he done that puts him above Superman-prime?

Originally posted by Mindset
Is it considered a win if your opponent can come back? Yes...just like any other fight except crazy wrestling.

Originally posted by Mindset
Is it considered a win if your opponent can come back? Actually no.

That is a rule as long as the person can return to the battlefield under their own power the it doesn't count a s awin.

Originally posted by Sirius77
I agree that it should not have happened. However, the fact is that it did.



http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/12-2.jpg

Youre completely right... Myx coming back from the the third dimension with an "S" burned into his forehead, all of his fingers broken, and bloody and beaten, DIRECTLY AFTER the fight with Superman-prime screaming and crying, saying

"Seal! Seal the dimension off! The f-fifth dimension! SEAL IT OFF! He's... there! He... IS the end!"

And considering he had both of them scared, I doubt that either of them were in a position to harm him.



You mean a MONITER, right? There is only one monarch. And Superman-prime fought both Monarch and a moniter.

Superman-prime vs a Moniter:

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/Primemonitor.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/Primemonitor2.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/Primemonitor3.jpg

Superman-prime vs Monarch
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p02.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p03.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p04.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p05.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p06.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p07.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p08.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p16.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p19-20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p21.jpg



He had spent a year under a junior red sun-eater, in a quantum containment field.

Then he was weakened by red star with a blast of red sun energy almost immediately.

Then the suit that supplied him with power was torn, melted, and burned off by the city of top-tiers that he took on.

Which included The Flash (whom he literally smoked while weakened, and presumeably oneshotted), Superman, Supergirl, Powergirl, Wonder-girl, Alan scott, Jo'nn, Ms Martian, Red star, Wonder woman, etc...

So, yes, it was a good showing, considering he was weakened beyond most characters level of function.



He killed 32 gls. More than Parallax. Thats not even counting sc.



His heat vision goes right through a Green Lantern and hits a Guardian
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/henshawblast.jpg

Takes on the Green Lantern Corps, The Sinestro Corps, and Earth's heroes at the same time. Three Guardians attack him, but that doesn't put him down. One Guardian releases all of his energy and self-destructs

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/everyoneone.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/everyoneone2.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/everyoneone3.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/everyoneone4.jpg



And yet, he was still owning Monarch. I doubt he even needed the upgrade to beat Monarch. Without it, it would be difficult, but he could still pull a majority imo. We'll have to see.




Superman-prime did beat Monarch. Unless monarch suvived, Superman-prime won. If he did survive, he was still unable to defeat Superman-prime even in a weakened state.

And Superman-prime will win this.

Oh, and by the way, what actually makes you think that trion will win? What has he done that puts him above Superman-prime?

How does the scan with Mxy prove he would be powerless to stop SMP? SMP was able to torture him because Mxy did not have his powers, as I said, him sealing of the 5th dimension could just be fear of a similar incident occurring again.

Yes, I did mean Monitor. And that wasn't really a fight, but anyway like I mentioned, the Monitors were having trouble fighting people much less powerful than SMP.

He had been away from the Red sun for awhile when he returned from Earth, so while it is true he was not at full power, we don't know how weakened he actually was. None of those people are on Trion's level of power so it doesn't really matter.

Him killing more fodder Gls than Parallax isn't much of a feat, it's not like Parallax couldn't have killed more.

The Guardian's really did not put up much of an offensive against SMP, I had heard they were skyfather level, but I didn't really see it.

What makes you think SMP could beat Monarch w/o the upgrade when the only reason he beat Monarch with it was by tearing his armor? Yes SMP beat Monarch, that does not mean Monarch wasn't stronger. Anyone could beat Monarch if they are strong enough to rip his armor and are given a chance to.

Actually I don't know if Trion would win or not.

When the hell are they going to show who Mxy was scared of? Is it Gog? Doubtful off topic my bad.

I'm still wondering how someone of Mxy's power can be depowered by Zatanna.

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm still wondering how someone of Mxy's power can be depowered by Zatanna. Another thing we aren't sure of. If thats the case whenever Mxy bothers Superman he can just tell Zantanna to say depower imp backwards right? It's bull if you ask me.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Lulz after the fight is over?bawling

It's not considered over if your opponent can come back.

I asked ages ago for someone to present some substance to the ungodly hype that is Trion juggernaut. what has he done that makes him even remotely as serious a challenge as say Odin?

Originally posted by Mindset
How does the scan with Mxy prove he would be powerless to stop SMP? SMP was able to torture him because Mxy did not have his powers, as I said, him sealing of the 5th dimension could just be fear of a similar incident occurring again.

Tell me who this person is.
Do you have more evidence than me?

Originally posted by Mindset
Yes, I did mean Monitor. And that wasn't really a fight, but anyway like I mentioned, the Monitors were having trouble fighting people much less powerful than SMP.

Moniters are not pushovers by any means if thats what your implying.

Originally posted by Mindset
He had been away from the Red sun for awhile when he returned from Earth, so while it is true he was not at full power, we don't know how weakened he actually was. None of those people are on Trion's level of power so it doesn't really matter.

He was released from the quantum containment field, and went straight to earth. In a matter of fact, he beat everyone there.

That much we do know. He had not been exposed to a sun yet until he got to earth, nor was it even implied.

Originally posted by Mindset
Him killing more fodder Gls than Parallax isn't much of a feat, it's not like Parallax couldn't have killed more.

And its not like Superman-prime could not have killed more either.
As I said, I didnt even mention the number of gls he killed in sc, and I dont feel like counting...

Who did trion kill?

Originally posted by Mindset
The Guardian's really did not put up much of an offensive against SMP, I had heard they were skyfather level, but I didn't really see it.

They shot him in unison with blasts that hurt the am and fried Henshaw. He was unscathed.

And if you dont know how powerful they are, then pick up a gl comic once in a while. I'm not going to post scans, just go to the respect thread, I'm sure theyre in there.

Originally posted by Mindset
What makes you think SMP could beat Monarch w/o the upgrade when the only reason he beat Monarch with it was by tearing his armor? Yes SMP beat Monarch, that does not mean Monarch wasn't stronger. Anyone could beat Monarch if they are strong enough to rip his armor and are given a chance to.

Superman-prime faced a group of skyfathers who were unable to do anything but bfr him, and that ncosted them a life. Monarch is powerful. Very powerful, but I don't think that he can compete with that in that fashion.

And anyone cannot beat monarch. If it was that simple, I think that fifty captaian atoms would have been able to accomplish it.

Also, during the Superman-prime vs Monarch fight, Superman-prime was loosing his amp, while Monarch had the power of fifty captain atoms added to his own. So, yes I do think that Superman-prime could have beat Monarch without his amp, imo.

Originally posted by Mindset
Actually I don't know if Trion would win or not.

Wow...

Okay...

Originally posted by iceman24567
Another thing we aren't sure of. If thats the case whenever Mxy bothers Superman he can just tell Zantanna to say depower imp backwards right? It's bull if you ask me.

It is bull. But honestly, I think that myx has aalways had a weakness to being expelled from dimensions, or things of that nature.

And all it takes is him saying his name backwards to send him back to the fifth dimension. Maybe theres a connection.

Originally posted by janus77
I asked ages ago for someone to present some substance to the ungodly hype that is Trion juggernaut. what has he done that makes him even remotely as serious a challenge as say Odin?



Someone said he could take Odin?!

Originally posted by Sirius77


Someone said he could take Odin?!
I don't know really, just irritated that nobody gives a reason other than "he punched through dimensions!" . Hulk's done that, big deal, Odin could probably do that stuff in his sleep, if he were wont.

dunno, it'll be interesting to see his feats.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Tell me who this person is.
Do you have more evidence than me?



Moniters are not pushovers by any means if thats what your implying.



He was released from the quantum containment field, and went straight to earth. In a matter of fact, he beat everyone there.

That much we do know. He had not been exposed to a sun yet until he got to earth, nor was it even implied.



And its not like Superman-prime could not have killed more either.
As I said, I didnt even mention the number of gls he killed in sc, and I dont feel like counting...

Who did trion kill?



They shot him in unison with blasts that hurt the am and fried Henshaw. He was unscathed.

And if you dont know how powerful they are, then pick up a gl comic once in a while. I'm not going to post scans, just go to the respect thread, I'm sure theyre in there.



Superman-prime faced a group of skyfathers who were unable to do anything but bfr him, and that ncosted them a life. Monarch is powerful. Very powerful, but I don't think that he can compete with that in that fashion.

And anyone cannot beat monarch. If it was that simple, I think that fifty captaian atoms would have been able to accomplish it.

Also, during the Superman-prime vs Monarch fight, Superman-prime was loosing his amp, while Monarch had the power of fifty captain atoms added to his own. So, yes I do think that Superman-prime could have beat Monarch without his amp, imo.



Wow...

Okay...

I honestly don't feel like replying to most of this so I'll keep it short.

Mxy was afraid of being captured again, that doesn't mean he was afraid of SMP. SMP needed Zatanna's help in keeping Mxy there or else she wouldn't have been there at all.

Guardians don't fight that much, so picking up any random GL comic wouldn't help, but thanks.

Now you're saying Monarch w/o his amp, but no one was talking about him so why bring him up, Monarch amp as far as we know was not a temporary powerup, which is what SMP had. I don't know if you didn't understand what I was saying or you just chose to ignore it...I said if given the opportunity anyone who is capable of ripping Monarch't suit could beat him, that is a fact.

Originally posted by Mindset
I honestly don't feel like replying to most of this so I'll keep it short.

Mxy was afraid of being captured again, that doesn't mean he was afraid of SMP. SMP needed Zatanna's help in keeping Mxy there or else she wouldn't have been there at all.

Okay then. Who was he afraid of?

The way youre talking, you obviously know something that I dont.

Superman-prime was the guy who beat him half to death, burned an "S" into his forehead, and broke all of his fingers.

He was the only "he" myxs vicinity. It was never shown on panel that myx saw any other male except for Superman-prime. So, I really don't see how you can make such broad speculations with literally no evidence.

Originally posted by Mindset
Guardians don't fight that much, so picking up any random GL comic wouldn't help, but thanks.

Try tpbs.

Originally posted by Mindset
Now you're saying Monarch w/o his amp, but no one was talking about him so why bring him up,

Originally posted by Mindset
Most those mentioned are below Trion's power level, and the ones that are, namely Monarch, would have beaten SMP.

You did.

Originally posted by Mindset
Monarch amp as far as we know was not a temporary powerup, which is what SMP had.

And yet he still took everything that monarch had and won. While Monarch was amped. And Superman-prime was weakening.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't know if you didn't understand what I was saying or you just chose to ignore it...I said if given the opportunity anyone who is capable of ripping Monarch't suit could beat him, that is a fact.

By "given the opportunity" you mean Monarch would just sit back and let them beat him?

Well he already did that... Three supermen were one-shotted as a result.

Three gls were able to breach his suit. One died, and the other was half dead. These included Hal Jordan (who died), Hal's son, and gl batman...

Fifty captain atoms tried. They got absorbed.

Originally posted by janus77
I don't know really, just irritated that nobody gives a reason other than "he punched through dimensions!" . Hulk's done that, big deal, Odin could probably do that stuff in his sleep, if he were wont.

dunno, it'll be interesting to see his feats.


Juggernaut in his Trion form was basically a Cytorrak level brick.

Which is why it's pretty funny to see a pro-Superman Prime argument.

Probably not as funny as watching SMP fail miserably at BFRing a 100 foot tall Juggernaut would be.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Juggernaut in his Trion form was basically a Cytorrak level brick.

Which is why it's pretty funny to see a pro-Superman Prime argument.
that's yet another one of my questions yet to be adequately answered, what level is Cyttorak on exactly?

I thought Trion wasn't supposed to be Cyttorak but someone else?

and also, what has Trion juggernaut done to merit comparisons with Cyttorak?

the dimension punching stuff just doesn't cut it, Hulk's done that and far more impressive stuff (the thunderclap that caused the Darkcrawler dimension to crumble)...

Originally posted by janus77
that's yet another one of my questions yet to be adequately answered, what level is Cyttorak on exactly?

I thought Trion wasn't supposed to be Cyttorak but someone else?

and also, what has Trion juggernaut done to merit comparisons with Cyttorak?

the dimension punching stuff just doesn't cut it, Hulk's done that and far more impressive stuff (the thunderclap that caused the Darkcrawler dimension to crumble)...

I agree.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Okay then. Who was he afraid of?

The way youre talking, you obviously know something that I dont.

Superman-prime was the guy who beat him half to death, burned an "S" into his forehead, and broke all of his fingers.

He was the only "he" myxs vicinity. It was never shown on panel that myx saw any other male except for Superman-prime. So, I really don't see how you can make such broad speculations with literally no evidence.



Try tpbs.



Originally posted by Mindset
Most those mentioned are below Trion's power level, and the ones that are, namely Monarch, would have beaten SMP.

You did.



And yet he still took everything that monarch had and won. While Monarch was amped. And Superman-prime was weakening.



By "given the opportunity" you mean Monarch would just sit back and let them beat him?

Well he already did that... Three supermen were one-shotted as a result.

Three gls were able to breach his suit. One died, and the other was half dead. These included Hal Jordan (who died), Hal's son, and gl batman...

Fifty captain atoms tried. They got absorbed.

I don't know what you're not getting, Mxy was afraid of being captured again, yes by SMP, but because he could be depowered again by Zatanna or whomever, not that he was afraid of SMP himself. I'm not making any speculation because of the simple fact that I'm not speculating...

Actually no I didn't, when did I say anything about a non amped Monarch? I didn't say the amped one because there was no point, that was his current power level.

No, SMP did not take everything Monarch had, Monarch did not use his full power when taking on SMP, I don't know how you are going t claim he did. Monarch under estimated SMP the whole fight and yet he still had the upper hand. SMP was only able to be on Monarch's level because of his guardian upgrade, without it he would have lost. The fight was Monarchs to lose, and he did. If SMP had not cause Monarch to self destruct he would have lost, this way it was a double ko--anyone who can rip open Monarch's armor could have done the same.

Originally posted by janus77


the dimension punching stuff just doesn't cut it, Hulk's done that and far more impressive stuff (the thunderclap that caused the Darkcrawler dimension to crumble)...

You have to put it in context of the story (which is why Prime punching the wall wasn't nearly as impressive as Juggs)/read the book instead of comparing it (dimension punching) to such and such feat. Otherwise Superman Prime isn't Hulk level either.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't know what you're not getting, Mxy was afraid of being captured again, yes by SMP, but because he could be depowered again by Zatanna or whomever, not that he was afraid of SMP himself. I'm not making any speculation because of the simple fact that I'm not speculating...

Zatanna died, and he knew she died.

And if your not speculating, then what proves your assumption?

Originally posted by Mindset
Actually no I didn't, when did I say anything about a non amped Monarch? I didn't say the amped one because there was no point, that was his current power level.

But it was still an amp. It doesnt matter though.

Originally posted by Mindset
No, SMP did not take everything Monarch had, Monarch did not use his full power when taking on SMP, I don't know how you are going t claim he did.

Monarch thought that he had killed Superman-prime, but he didnt. He also blew up a universe, and Superman-prime is still alive. As was stated by the countdown writers. He will be in the final crisis.

Originally posted by Mindset
Monarch under estimated SMP the whole fight and yet he still had the upper hand.

He stopped undersetimating him when he blew up a city and Superman-prime s cape wasnt singed...

Originally posted by Mindset
SMP was only able to be on Monarch's level because of his guardian upgrade, without it he would have lost.

It was stated that he was loosing the upgrade, and monarch was still having trouble.

So no, he would not have lost. He was fighting as he was loosing it.

Originally posted by Mindset
The fight was Monarchs to lose, and he did. If SMP had not cause Monarch to self destruct he would have lost, this way it was a double ko--anyone who can rip open Monarch's armor could have done the same.

If Monarch had not blown up, Superman-prime would have just continued to tear pieces off of Monarch until there was nothing left. The explosion only speeded up Superman-primes victory.

And as I said, the gls did it. They lost.

Prime bfred the Anti-Monitor and he's about 100 feet thats how Prime gets the win throw him far from earth Prime is above Hulk level look what he did to the source wall. Prime wins via bfr.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Prime bfred the Anti-Monitor and he's about 100 feet thats how Prime gets the win throw him far from earth Prime is above Hulk level look what he did to the source wall. Prime wins via bfr.

Ah huh....No BFR. Who wins?

Originally posted by Evangel94
Ah huh....No BFR. Who wins? What the heck is anybody physically going to do to him?

Originally posted by Sirius77
Zatanna died, and he knew she died.

And if your not speculating, then what proves your assumption?



But it was still an amp. It doesnt matter though.



Monarch thought that he had killed Superman-prime, but he didnt. He also blew up a universe, and Superman-prime is still alive. As was stated by the countdown writers. He will be in the final crisis.



He stopped undersetimating him when he blew up a city and Superman-prime s cape wasnt singed...



It was stated that he was loosing the upgrade, and monarch was still having trouble.

So no, he would not have lost. He was fighting as he was loosing it.



If Monarch had not blown up, Superman-prime would have just continued to tear pieces off of Monarch until there was nothing left. The explosion only speeded up Superman-primes victory.

And as I said, the gls did it. They lost.

There is nothing to speculate. There are two things we know, SMP needed Zatanna to depower Mxy. Mxy wanted the dimension closed off. Mxy didnt want to be kidnapped again, but SMP on his own did not have the power to capture him, I don't know what you're going on about, but it doesn't really matter.

After Monarch said SMP was losing his powers he was not still having trouble, after he said that he didn't even attack him again, where do you come up with this stuff?
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p16.jpg

I don't know how you think SMP would have won the fight w/o ripping his suit when Monarch was controlling the entire fight, even when SMP had his upgrade and Monarch wasn't using his full strength...unless you think the extent of Monarch's strength is blowing up a city. I think you either need to re-read the fight or look past your like for SMP. SMP was losing his guardian upgrade and the fight until he ripped open Monarch's suit.

And you don't know how SMP survived the blast, hell, a Monitor easily survived the blast completely unscathed as well.

Originally posted by Mindset
There is nothing to speculate. There are two things we know, SMP needed Zatanna to depower Mxy. Mxy wanted the dimension closed off. Mxy didnt want to be kidnapped again, but SMP on his own did not have the power to capture him, I don't know what you're going on about, but it doesn't really matter.

Theres a third thing that we know. Anataz was afraid of Superman-prime. So either way, he is the deciding factor here.

Originally posted by Mindset
After Monarch said SMP was losing his powers he was not still having trouble, after he said that he didn't even attack him again, where do you come up with this stuff?
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p16.jpg

He didnt attack because he didnt have time, lol.

That entire scan is just Monarch blasting Superman-prime, and nothing happening. The only destructive blow that affected either was done by Superman-prime. Re-read your scan.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't know how you think SMP would have won the fight w/o ripping his suit when Monarch was controlling the entire fight, even when SMP had his upgrade and Monarch wasn't using his full strength...unless you think the extent of Monarch's strength is blowing up a city. I think you either need to re-read the fight or look past your like for SMP. SMP was losing his guardian upgrade and the fight until he ripped open Monarch's suit.

Do you think that Superman-prime was using his full strength? lol. He blew up a planet by flying through it, and destroyed the SOURCE WALL with heat vision.

And it you that needs to reread the comic. Superman-prime was unscathed the entire fight. Not even his clothes were torn. Hell, even his cape was still there. When he lost his guadian amp. He beat Monarch, so I dont see what your trying to argue.

Originally posted by Mindset
And you don't know how SMP survived the blast, hell, a Monitor easily survived the blast completely unscathed as well.

Right. Because its so easy to survive a universe destroying blast...

Trion Juggs scrapes SMP off the bottom of his boot. thread over.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Theres a third thing that we know. Anataz was afraid of Superman-prime. So either way, he is the deciding factor here.



He didnt attack because he didnt have time, lol.

That entire scan is just Monarch blasting Superman-prime, and nothing happening. The only destructive blow that affected either was done by Superman-prime. Re-read your scan.



Do you think that Superman-prime was using his full strength? lol. He blew up a planet by flying through it, and destroyed the SOURCE WALL with heat vision.

And it you that needs to reread the comic. Superman-prime was unscathed the entire fight. Not even his clothes were torn. Hell, even his cape was still there. When he lost his guadian amp. He beat Monarch, so I dont see what your trying to argue.



Right. Because its so easy to survive a universe destroying blast...

He didn't attack, you said he was still having trouble once it was said SMP was losing his upgrade, which was wrong, because how can you have trouble when you don't even attempt to attack. And he had time to attack, he was still just verbally mocking SMP and not taking it serious enough.

I agree that Monarch had no significant damage, but SMP did even less, but SMP was losing power while Monarch wasn't, common sense would tell you who had the advantage.

I don't see how flying through a planet is an attack SMP could use against Monarch, but w/e...The Source wall was already deteriorating when SMP shot it with his hv.

While he was losing his upgrade he made one last attack, which was ripping open Monarch's armor, so no, I don't think I need to re-read it...SMP was on the receiving end of most of the attacks, he was not phasing Monarch at all, although Monarch was not doing much damage to SMP, however, the difference is Monarch was greatly holding back and he was not losing any power while SMP was reverting back to his normal levels.

It should be pretty obvious who would have won if Monarch's aror was not ripped open.

And apparently it is easy to survive the universe explosion, the Monitors were having problems with Monarch's army yet they can survive universe destroying blasts w/o too much trouble...yea, that makes sense.

And like I said, do you know how SMP survives? No, you don't.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/Countdown13p08.jpg

Originally posted by Mindset
He didn't attack, you said he was still having trouble once it was said SMP was losing his upgrade, which was wrong, because how can you have trouble when you don't even attempt to attack. And he had time to attack, he was still just verbally mocking SMP and not taking it serious enough.

Monarch blasted Superman-prime two times in that scan. If you didnt see that, then you need to work on reading comp...

I dont see how he wasnt attacking. And does it matter that Monarch was mocking Superman-prime? Myx did the same thing. Both got beaten.



Originally posted by Mindset
I agree that Monarch had no significant damage, but SMP did even less, but SMP was losing power while Monarch wasn't, common sense would tell you who had the advantage.

The only damage done was imflicted by Superman-prime. It was the final blow. That was the only damage caused to one of them. By a weakened Superman-prime.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't see how flying through a planet is an attack SMP could use against Monarch, but w/e...The Source wall was already deteriorating when SMP shot it with his hv.

lol. Superman-prime can fly half across the universe without an amp in a few panels, but he cant speedblitz a planet while Monarch is on it?

Originally posted by Mindset
While he was losing his upgrade he made one last attack, which was ripping open Monarch's armor, so no, I don't think I need to re-read it...SMP was on the receiving end of most of the attacks, he was not phasing Monarch at all, although Monarch was not doing much damage to SMP, however, the difference is Monarch was greatly holding back and he was not losing any power while SMP was reverting back to his normal levels.

So by "not phasing Monarch" you mean tearing open his chest plate and causing the end of the universe?

Learn to read...

Originally posted by Mindset
It should be pretty obvious who would have won if Monarch's aror was not ripped open.

Exactly. Superman-prime.

Originally posted by Mindset
And apparently it is easy to survive the universe explosion, the Monitors were having problems with Monarch's army yet they can survive universe destroying blasts w/o too much trouble...yea, that makes sense.

One Moniter survived. One. And that was HIS universe.

How many characters do you know that have survived a universe explosion?

Originally posted by Mindset
And like I said, do you know how SMP survives? No, you don't.

Thats irrelevant. If you look at the feats of the two, you'll find that Superman-prime even without the amp is comparable to monarch in power. Physically above.

Either way. Enough of this. We're on a tangent here. I believe that Superman-prime wins over trion. What is your opinion? Have you formed one yet?

Originally posted by iceman24567
Prime bfred the Anti-Monitor and he's about 100 feet thats how Prime gets the win throw him far from earth Prime is above Hulk level look what he did to the source wall. Prime wins via bfr. Um, bfred an Anti-Monitor that already was beaten and standing on his last two legs.

AND the only reason the AM didn't return was because he was then used to create the Black Lanterns.

So I fail to see where SMP really BFRed AM.

Just pointing that out.

Prime pretty much throw him a star system away he was weakend but he was still fighting.........I bet if Hulk would have thrown a weakend Galactus to another star system everyone would be like "woah".....but since it was only the Anti-Monitor it's not such a big feat.......

Originally posted by Estacado
Prime pretty much throw him a star system away he was weakend but he was still fighting.........I bet if Hulk would have thrown a weakend Galactus to another star system everyone would be like "woah".....but since it was only the Anti-Monitor it's not such a big feat....... Seeing as Thor has driven off a weakened Galactus probably not

And all I'm saying that throwing away a weakened AM that was unable to return to Earth because he was being turned into a Corp Battery isn't exactly SMP doing the permanent BFRing. Had that last bit not have happened AM would have been able to return.

So throwing away Trion Juggernaut won't result in the same deal. Seeing as he won't be turned into a Lantern Battery. And can return under his own power.

Originally posted by Newjak
Seeing as Thor has driven off a weakened Galactus probably not

Context?

Originally posted by Newjak
And all I'm saying that throwing away a weakened AM that was unable to return to Earth because he was being turned into a Corp Battery isn't exactly SMP doing the permanent BFRing. Had that last bit not have happened AM would have been able to return.

Actually, it was only after the sc war that the am landed. All the time, he was saying "priiimmme". And the am would not have returned. When Superman-prime flew through his chest, that was the 'killing' blow (a reference to coie). Because of that last blow, he was too weak to return. He was crawling.

Originally posted by Newjak
So throwing away Trion Juggernaut won't result in the same deal. Seeing as he won't be turned into a Lantern Battery. And can return under his own power.

Assuming he doesnt trap him in the source wall. Or actually beat him straight up. And trion can punch through dimensions, but I dont see how that would help him if he is in the same dimension, but a galaxy away.