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Digimark007



vs

Darthgoober



Area

Originally posted by Evangel94

Me and Digi don't mess around huh ...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Me and Digi don't mess around huh ...

Well both of you are very methodical with your scanning and replying, I'll definitely give you that. Answer me this if you can; given that both write-ups are rather grandiose, let's for the sake of argument, disregard the write-ups for a moment. Simply a straight power to power match up.

If this battle was reduced to Darthgoober's team against Digimark007's team, who would win if nothing significant is done with the 15 minute prep for either side? Both sides just fighting head to head.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Well both of you are very methodical with your scanning and replying, I'll definitely give you that. Answer me this if you can; given that both write-ups are rather grandiose, let's for the sake of argument, disregard the write-ups for a moment. Simply a straight power to power match up.

If this battle was reduced to Darthgoober's team against Digimark007's team, who would win if nothing significant is done with the 15 minute prep for either side? Both sides just fighting head to head.
In that case my guy DEFIANTLY wins. As I explained before, the number of templates Super Adaptoid can mimic is limited by his bodies ability to store/channel energy. But since he's now in the body of the Silver Surfer and Surfer's body is MADE to absorb and channel unreal amounts of energy he'll be able to use way more templates simultaneously than Super Adaptoid is normally capable of...

Silver Surfer's Black Body upgrade(which he still has by the way) allows him to absorb and store sufficient energy to match an Elder God/Abstract level being...
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2715/silversurfer199612020py0.jpg

With that kind of storage capacity, I'll have no problem using several templates at the same time if I so feel like it and then I just kick his team all over the battlefield. For instance, I could just access the powers of the Vision, Captain America, and Mar-Vell and utterly waylay him.

Think about it, the Vision's strength and durability increase by thousands of times via manipulation of his density(an obvious multiplication rather than addition) so when it's used on the Surfer's body which has a MUCH higher base strength and durability than Visions I'll be all but unbeatable for even someone with Thor's level of strength. With the combined fighting skills of Mar-Vell and Captain America(as well as having the wonder that is Cap's shield as a weapon) and the speed of the Silver Surfer I can take out most of Digi's team before they even register my presence.

I can take out Reed and Lex before they have time to process a complete thought and then throw the Doctor and Thor off balance with an energy blast capable of creating a black hole...

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9429/annihilationsilversurfeiv2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5159/annihilationsilversurfeay7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

With them off balance and confused, it'll be no problem for me to take them out quickly via shield decapitation. And that's if I don't copy the Doctor's powers first, which would screw him and Thor even more.


BTW are you going to rule on the spying issue or just leave it for the judges to decide ?

Originally posted by darthgoober
BTW are you going to rule on the spying issue or just leave it for the judges to decide ?

Can you briefly summarize what the conflict is?

If I may intervene. The spy issue comes from the fact that Goober's team means to use cosmic awareness to know that its being spied on, he gets no other information than that. He says that since he is not really spying in any strategy other than knowing that he is being spied on, its a legal movement. Digi argues that its not.

Thats the issue.

Originally posted by Bentley
If I may intervene. The spy issue comes from the fact that Goober's team means to use cosmic awareness to know that its being spied on, he gets no other information than that. He says that since he is not really spying in any strategy other than knowing that he is being spied on, its a legal movement. Digi argues that its not.

Thats the issue.
Almost but not quite. I don't plan on actively USING Cosmic Awareness, it just kicks in in situations like this. I say I'm not spying because there's no actual action on my part necessary to notice the change. If Digi made the air in my area smell bad I'd notice it whether I was paying attention or not. By the same token, he's altering MY portion of the battlefield in an obvious manner by introducing a spy portal(which is effectively a hole in space) around someone who's unconscious senses are attuned to the universe itself. We'd actually have to neuter the abilities of the Surfer in order for him NOT to notice the thing...

Don't know if it's too early to vote but I don't think I'm going to be by a computer until the end of the day.

Though I believe Digi managed to prove that Goob won't have those billions of SuferAdaptoids I do think he can get two or three up and running without being unreasonable.

The claim that Lex and Reed won't work together is slightly absurd. Reed has worked with villains in the past and Lex has worked with heroes in the past. All it takes is the right situation (which they are certainly in even ignoring the 'motivation')

All in all I vote for Goober.A squad of Herald types with huge intellectual backing and a vast array of powers seems like too much for Digi to handle.

Great work to both of you. Debates like this remind me of why I enjoy them so much.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Well both of you are very methodical with your scanning and replying, I'll definitely give you that. Answer me this if you can; given that both write-ups are rather grandiose, let's for the sake of argument, disregard the write-ups for a moment. Simply a straight power to power match up.

If this battle was reduced to Darthgoober's team against Digimark007's team, who would win if nothing significant is done with the 15 minute prep for either side? Both sides just fighting head to head.

Take a look at the tiers thread.

Silver Surfer- High Herald
Adaptoid - Mid Herald
Thor - High Herald
Doctor - Transcendant.

Remove prep and he has exactly 1 character in this fight. I have The Doctor, who could easily school Surfer, and Thor, who has beaten Surfer before.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The claim that Lex and Reed won't work together is slightly absurd. Reed has worked with villains in the past and Lex has worked with heroes in the past. All it takes is the right situation (which they are certainly in even ignoring the 'motivation')



What he said.

Though I'm a bit mystified that you think goober will only have a few adaptoids, AND my team will work together fine, but you still voted for goober. A Galactus-busting weapon that I can reform with a thought, in addition to my base team, isn't enough to take out a few herald level beings?

In any case, glad you're enjoying the match.

...

Misconceptions

Thor has blocked blasts from Surfer before, has flown 3x the speed of light, and could release omni-directional lightning to stun and/or kill his team at any time. A lot is made of Surfer's speed, but the fact is, Thor can match him if needed. But it wouldn't be because of the gun. I'm not at my own cpu right now, but once I get homw I can produce scans for all of this.

The Doctor could just telekinetically hold goober's team back while the gun takes care of them. This is the man who held Italy in place, and rather easily at that.

I have many more options than goober, and these are among them. He has to hope that he can answer my superior firepower, all the while also hoping that the judges buy his insane prep. Surfer's power is finite, Adaptoid's experience with Surfer's power, or even using many powers of his own, is zero, and he's tried about 4-5 different half-assed ways to counter the gun (which I can always rebuild) because none of them work well enough to stick with it.

He can't do them all, or even any one of them. There's maybe a dozen Adaptoids in this fight, and they all die in the opening seconds. End of story.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Take a look at the tiers thread.

Silver Surfer- High Herald
Adaptoid - Mid Herald
Thor - High Herald
Doctor - Transcendant.

Remove prep and he has exactly 1 character in this fight. I have The Doctor, who could easily school Surfer, and Thor, who has beaten Surfer before.

Are you telling me that the Doctor is above herald level despite you drafting him for 6 points? His power level may get reduced to the maximum Herald level allows if that is the case.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Are you telling me that the Doctor is above herald level despite you drafting him for 6 points? His power level may get reduced to the maximum Herald level allows if that is the case.

Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate are in the same class too, and at least Strange is arguably > Doctor in terms of feats. And these 3 are all severely limited by the various banned powers, since all 3 of them have most of them (time manip, BFR, etc.). I didn't do anything that others didn't confirm before me in the drafts.

In any case, if he has a moment's time to form some shields, he's > Surfer at base levels. Not by a lot, especially with the banned powers, but there's still more potential there. The only scenario he'd lose consistently is a straight-up speedblitz, since he's not as fast or as durable as Surfer at base levels, but the Superman-suits I made account for that.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Take a look at the tiers thread.

Silver Surfer- High Herald
Adaptoid - Mid Herald
Thor - High Herald
Doctor - Transcendant.

Remove prep and he has exactly 1 character in this fight. I have The Doctor, who could easily school Surfer, and Thor, who has beaten Surfer before. which one is the truth?

Voting for Digi

I don't buy that Reed and Luther wouldn't work together

and I don't belieive Goober will be able to make as many adaptoids as he claims without them Digi's team is more powerful and should win.

About the spy thing...even though darthgoober didn't buy spying, there is no way in hell his character would be oblivious to the fact that something is spying on him, and naturally the character would go find out what it was, so even though it seems like a loophole, it would be asinine to say that goober's character would not use the spy portal against digimark's team.

Originally posted by DigiMark007


What he said.

Though I'm a bit mystified that you think goober will only have a few adaptoids, AND my team will work together fine, but you still voted for goober. A Galactus-busting weapon that I can reform with a thought, in addition to my base team, isn't enough to take out a few herald level beings?

I have a high opinion of Surfer and his abilities. His charge that the gun would have to leave a opening is quite reasonable and enough to gain the element of surprise.

wait a sec, if digi fires a beam capable of "killing" GAH-LAK-TUS in a ten mile dome, how the hell can he survive it?

I know he stated how but is that enough? if goob's characters can die, so can digi's and like he said there is no safe place to be really.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
wait a sec, if digi fires a beam capable of "killing" GAH-LAK-TUS in a ten mile dome, how the hell can he survive it?

I know he stated how but is that enough? if goob's characters can die, so can digi's and like he said there is no safe place to be really.

It's in my writeup. I have a field set up with the Doctor to convert energy to rain, and I'll be soaking up excess energy with Mjolnir, which is more than capable of handling residual energy from it.

I'm also behind it and off to the side a bit. So the energy will envelope everywhere else before it even gets near me. I have a FAR better way of dealing with it than goob, and can always shut it down if it threatens my own team...but by that time, goob's team would be long dead.

the kick back will be a bytch though.

For now, my vote goes for Digi.

Also I just noticed Digi's comment about not being able to see the teleportation scan, so here it is again(let me know if this one's tiny too)...
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7996/ffannual05silversurfer1tl0.jpg

not voting yet, but I'm leaning heavily towards darthgoober. Digi's plan seems a bit simplistic (nothing wrong with that if effective) but also inflexible, whereas Goober's plan really allows him to react to many different situations imo.

The only way Digi's plan seems to work is if we are to believe the blast takes out Goober's entire army...but when there are 6 BILLION metahumans, the burden of proof on Digi is very high that the blast can get through that. Frankly, I don't see that blast taking out Goober's entire army, in which case according to Goober's calculation.

Voting Digi. I didn't have any real confidence in either of their plans, but Digi's seemed just a bit more plausible to me.

Voting for Digi, but question: Digi's team can race the Adaptoids, but who says the blast will fire before they attack?

Since the amount of time necessary to create an adaptoid is what seems to be in question in everyone's mind, I figured I'd throw a few figures out there to help everyone decide how many there'll be when the match actually starts.

We already have the figures for how many there's going to be if the process takes one minute...
End of 1st minute= 2 Adaptoids(myself, and my creation)
2nd minute= 4 Adaptoids(me and my original creation, plus the adaptoids we both just made).
3rd= 8
4th= 16
5th= 32
6th= 64
7th= 128
8th= 256
9th= 512
10th= 1024
11th= 2048
12th= 4096
13th= 8,192
14th= 16,384

So if the process takes two minutes it'll be...
2 min mark- 2 adaptoids
4min- 4 adaptoids
6- 8 adaptoids
8- 16 adaptoids
10- 32 adaptoids
12- 64 adaptoids
14- 128 adaptoids

For three minutes it would be...
3 minute mark- 2 adaptoids
6- 4 adaptoids
9- 8 adaptoids
12- 16 adaptoids
15- 32 adaptoids

For 4 minutes...
4 minute mark- 2 adaptoids
8- 4 adaptoids
12- 8 adaptoids

For 5 minues...
5 minute mark- 2 adaptoids
10 minute mark- 4 adaptoids
15 minutes- 8 adaptoids


So in order for Digi's claim that I'd only have 4 or 5 adaptoids at the start of the fight, it would actually have to take me OVER 5 minutes to create a SINGLE adaptoid. Even if it took up to 5 minutes, 8 adaptoids is more than sufficient to take out Digi's team when we teleport above the gun and attack them as a group. ESPECIALLY since the Silver Adaptoid himself would be bringing the combined abilities of Surfer, Thor, Mar-Vell, and Captain America to the table.

Originally posted by darthgoober

Even if it took up to 5 minutes, 8 adaptoids is more than sufficient to take out Digi's team when we teleport above the gun and attack them as a group. ESPECIALLY since the Silver Adaptoid himself would be bringing the combined abilities of Surfer, Thor, Mar-Vell, and Captain America to the table.

but 8 adaptoids would be disintegrated by Digi's megablast. I thought you would win because I can see a couple million Captain America adaptoids forming an impenetrable wall that would take the brunt of the blast...leaving the remaining millions or billions of adaptoids to easily manhandle Digi's team.

Let's put the nail in the coffin kids. Wasn't sure if I would need to use this, but there's no sense in holding back, and I don't want to leave the match to chance since it's still close:

The only time SA was able to make duplicates was when he had copied Kubik, and possessed a shard of the Cosmic Cube. It was later removed by Kubik, and Goober's SA no longer has access to it.

http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sado8.jpg

Since we've never seen a base-level SA do anything of the sort regarding duplication, this is SA saying that he "desires" progeny....he's definitely not able to make them on his own.

Clearly it has no idea how to re-create itself, and the vaunted minds of various geniuses won't help this time...basically, it would be a miracle if he managed one duplicate in 15 minutes, let alone billions.

End fight.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
but 8 adaptoids would be disintegrated by Digi's megablast. I thought you would win because I can see a couple million Captain America adaptoids forming an impenetrable wall that would take the brunt of the blast...leaving the remaining millions or billions of adaptoids to easily manhandle Digi's team.
It's all a matter of how things pan out in prep. If I'm right and I end up with the 6 billion adaptoids then I'll have no problem absorbing the blast. In a worst case scenario where I only have 8 adaptoids, I won't try to absorb the blast, I'll teleport above the gun itself(between the start of the beam and the force field) and assault Digi's team directly since I've shown that both Surfer and Thor have the reflexes to react to the beam after it's fired. Either way, me and my guys will be fine.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Either way, me and my guys will be fine.

I hope you have an answer for Digi's pulling out the game-changer card (that SA can't duplicate).

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Let's put the nail in the coffin kids. Wasn't sure if I would need to use this, but there's no sense in holding back, and I don't want to leave the match to chance since it's still close:

The only time SA was able to make duplicates was when he had copied Kubik, and possessed a shard of the Cosmic Cube. It was later removed by Kubik, and Goober's SA no longer has access to it.

http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sado8.jpg

Since we've never seen a base-level SA do anything of the sort regarding duplication, this is SA saying that he "desires" progeny....he's definitely not able to make them on his own.

Clearly it has no idea how to re-create itself, and the vaunted minds of various geniuses won't help this time...basically, it would be a miracle if he managed one duplicate in 15 minutes, let alone billions.

End fight.
Sorry but I'm afraid that's not the end of it. See as you can see in this scan...
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3772/captainamerica441takingpc8.th.jpg
AIM has figured out how to make adaptoids despite having lost the Cosmic Cube so we know it's possible without one(since they didn't have one at the time).

And we know from this scan...
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/362/captainamerica441takingjv7.jpg

That the Super Adaptoid was actually IN CHARGE of the base where they were making the new Adaptoids, so it's a fairly safe to say that he knows how to build one without having a cosmic cube handy.



What's more, as I've already explained I don't NEED even a single extra adaptoid to take your team out. With the powers of the Silver Surfer, Thor, Mar-Vell, and Captian America at my beck and call it'll be childs play for the Silver Adaptoid to kill your team with ease. Cap's shield backed by the strength of Thor is more than sufficient to decapitate anyone on your team, and since I'd be either as fast as Thor(the fastest person on your team), Captain America, and Mar-Vell put together or the Silver Surfer(whichever would be faster) you're team will be dead before they even know what's happening. All I have to do is teleport above your gun and speedblitz the shit out of you.

Originally posted by Master-Borg


I hope you have an answer for Digi's pulling out the game-changer card (that SA can't duplicate).
I do, see the above post.

Originally posted by darthgoober
With the powers of the Silver Surfer, Thor, Mar-Vell, and Captian America at my beck and call it'll be childs play for the Silver Adaptoid to kill your team with ease. Cap's shield backed by the strength of Thor is more than sufficient to decapitate anyone on your team, and since I'd be either as fast as Thor(the fastest person on your team), Captain America, and Mar-Vell put together or the Silver Surfer(whichever would be faster) you're team will be dead before they even know what's happening. All I have to do is teleport above your gun and speedblitz the shit out of you.

One question: is the SA versions of those characters as powerful as the originals or are they inferior versions

Also, Digi's blast is wide radius, I'm still not sure how a 8 man team can survive that...I know you said they teleport between the gun and digi's forcefield, but doesnt that mean they still get hit?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry but I'm afraid that's not the end of it. See as you can see in this scan...
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3772/captainamerica441takingpc8.th.jpg
AIM has figured out how to make adaptoids despite having lost the Cosmic Cube so we know it's possible without one(since they didn't have one at the time).

And we know from this scan...
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/362/captainamerica441takingjv7.jpg

That the Super Adaptoid was actually IN CHARGE of the base where they were making the new Adaptoids, so it's a fairly safe to say that he knows how to build one without having a cosmic cube handy.



What's more, as I've already explained I don't NEED even a single extra adaptoid to take your team out. With the powers of the Silver Surfer, Thor, Mar-Vell, and Captian America at my beck and call it'll be childs play for the Silver Adaptoid to kill your team with ease. Cap's shield backed by the strength of Thor is more than sufficient to decapitate anyone on your team, and since I'd be either as fast as Thor(the fastest person on your team), Captain America, and Mar-Vell put together or the Silver Surfer(whichever would be faster) you're team will be dead before they even know what's happening. All I have to do is teleport above your gun and speedblitz the shit out of you.

That first scan just shows 2 of them, we don't know how they were made. It could be that they were both made by someone/something else.

It also gives no idea of a timeframe. And the second scan actually HELPS my point, because they need an entire facility to manufacture the things. This replication process is FAR harder than you're making it out to be.

And it is still contradicted by my scan, which shows that he didn't have that knowledge sans cosmic cube.

Hell, your own scan from your writeup supports this:
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2372/avengersv129009el5.jpg
...he needed the cube as an energy source as well as a guide.

No, if this plan wasn't boned to hell before, it is now. But even besides this are all the problems I've been mentioning all match.

...

And of course you don't think you need all of that to beat me. You know that most judges won't buy it, but have to try to salvage a win from about 1 billionth of the force you planned on having. Nice try, but it doesn't work.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
One question: is the SA versions of those characters as powerful as the originals or are they inferior versions

Also, Digi's blast is wide radius, I'm still not sure how a 8 man team can survive that...I know you said they teleport between the gun and digi's forcefield, but doesnt that mean they still get hit?
Super Adaptoid has a little trouble with super complex items like the Quantum Bands or Thor's hammer and can only make slightly inferior copies of those types of items, but as far as actual powers he copies them at the same level as their original users. The same thing holds true for less powerful items like the Nega Bands and Cap's shield, he can create fully functional replica's no problem.

And I won't be teleporting between Digi's forcefield and the gun, I'll be teleporting above the gun between the "start" of the beam and the dome surrounding the battlefield. In order for me to get hit with the blast, the gun would actually have to fire in a 360 radius around itself.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
That first scan just shows 2 of them, we don't know how they were made. It could be that they were both made by someone/something else.

It also gives no idea of a timeframe. And the second scan actually HELPS my point, because they need an entire facility to manufacture the things. This replication process is FAR harder than you're making it out to be.

And it is still contradicted by my scan, which shows that he didn't have that knowledge sans cosmic cube.

Hell, your own scan from your writeup supports this:
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2372/avengersv129009el5.jpg
...he needed the cube as an energy source as well as a guide.

No, if this plan wasn't boned to hell before, it is now. But even besides this are all the problems I've been mentioning all match.

...

And of course you don't think you need all of that to beat me. You know that most judges won't buy it, but have to try to salvage a win from about 1 billionth of the force you planned on having. Nice try, but it doesn't work.
There were thousands made Digi, THOUSANDS. I could go get some scans to support that statement but unfortunately there's not enough time left in the match. But the whole story takes place in the Taking AIM story arc and the adaptoids are shown in Captian America 441 if anyone doubts my word on the number being produced.

As for a factory being necessary, of course they needed one because they were human. Humans NEED things like factories because they don't have the ability to transmute matter the way Surfer does.

Fact- It's possible to create and adaptoid without a cosmic cube(and I give my word that there were no cosmic cubes being used or featured in that story).

Fact. Super Adaptoid was in charge of the Adaptoid creation operation, so it's foolish to think he doesn't know how to make one.

Fact. Surfer's transmutation powers can make pretty much anything, ESPECIALLY if he has detailed knowledge on how it works.

I will officially end the voting for this match today at 6:30PM CST. Please make sure to vote if you haven't.

Voting for darthgoober.

Originally posted by Bentley
Technically the creation process is increased geometrically.
Yeah that too .

Summary

- I've shown that Surfer's power is finite so he'd run out of power before being able to copy that many, Adaptoid's ability to replicate himeslf is suspect (at best), and the timeframe goober posits in his writeup is nothing short of silly in it's absurdity.

- One thing I NEVER mentioned until now is that those copies of Adaptoid that he has streaming out of him (which he needed the cosmic cube for, which he doesn't have now) were also blank slates, with no templates downloaded into them. He has no concept of how to make copies of himself with templates, and take the cube away and he can't do it at all. So keep that in mind too, since it means goober's giant army (which he doesn't have in the first place) doesn't even have templates to copy and is just a crappy robot.

- My plan, as always, has been based on a solid foundation of established powers. Nothing I did raises eyebrows, since it's all immensely doable. Goober's plan...not so much.

- The scan barrage above me can be largely ignored. Half of them I've debunked elsewhere in this thread and don't even begin to prove goober's strategy. Most of the others are similarly unimpressive, given the ludicrous lengths he wants to stretch them.

- I have a gun that can kill Galactus. That isn't in question. Goober's lame attempt to say Reed can't recreate it is simply false. He's built it before, and all he has to do is build the exact same thing. His very thoughts will shape it into reality via Doctor's matter manip. 15 minutes gives us time for high tea in addition to building it, and our suits.

- The technological prowess of the geniuses goober keeps mentioning mean nothing. Can they build SA? No.

- Good match goob. I enjoyed it.

its tough but im voting for Darth, for now . . .

His tactics seemed like they would hold strong, even after Digi somewhat debunked his SA-army. The toughest call for me here was definitely whether or not Digi's beam would wipe out the SA's, and I'm just not convinced it would wipe out a teleporter..

Great match to the both of you!

I'm going to have to vote for Digi.

I was originally swayed towards Goober's argument because I saw the sheer magnitude of 6 billion powerful metas being able to withstand the brunt of Digi's blast. But Digi threw a hinge into that argument and even Goober doesn't seem to wholeheartedly believe that he can create 6 billion (or anywhere close to that) amount of metas, as shown by his promotion of his backup plan.

But Goober's backup plan seems ineffective and a lastminute fail-safe strategy...Digi's blast takes up the entire space of the battlefield, so literally there is no place for Goober's team to teleport to for safety. And EVEN assuming they manage to escape the gun (which doesn't seem likely), it doesn't seem like Goober's team would really defeat Digi's team.

So, I guess I'm glad I witheld my vote until more of the strategies were hashed out, as my decision was changed in the last hour, although it was a very hard decision. Great job to the both of you.

This is one of the best matches I've witnessed in this tourney thus far. Both of you are winners in my book.

Voting for Darth.

If Digi could get his gun up, it may be a different story, but I cannot see him doing that. Lex and Reed getting along? Reed being able to access a universe in 15 minutes?

As for Digi claiming that REED (as part of SA's templates) would not know how to create something...well, the man can create anything. I happen to think that Darth could create a multitude of Adaptiods.

I'm actually convinced that the Super Adaptoid duplication thing would work.

The spying thing may have made little difference to the outcome of the debate but I'm going to address it anyway. From what I understood Darth was not so much looking back through the portal but was aware that they were being spied on thanks to his cosmic awareness.

Not so convinced about the Big Bang Gun thing being the be all and end all to the match though mainly because of the preparation that needs to be taken in order to operate the weapon and that there are plausible scenarios for Darth to counter it if in the very unlikely scenario that Digi's team managed to get it up and running. Granted the Doctor seems mighty impressive in his own right and Digi put up an incredible defence, this what extremely close but I'm going to have to vote for darthgoober.

Well done to both participants, this is what makes these tourney's great to read.

Votes so far...

Goober

Symmetric Chaos
Air Legend
invisiblewoman
Blair Wind
Typhus
ExodusCloak





Digi

Devil Lance
id369
King Kandy
Bentley
Master-Borg

I want to re read everything over again, this match was very close. What's the time limit on the voting?

Hate to be the one putting the nail.

Changing my vote: I vote for Gobber.

This may have been different if Digi proved that he could shoot before being attacked by the adaptoids -how can we vouch for the gun's speed?- or if he focused in the battle in case he failed to win with a gun and the adaptoids were less numerous than the initial estimate, now that we can't see that Gobber doesn't need that many numbers to win, his victory seems much more likely.

voting for darthgoober. 15 minutes for the cannon to be armed with a universe is suspect.

I'm voting for Darth. His army just seems to incredible for Digi to take.

Digi's gun as amazing as it is seems to me it was really about the only thing I could even conceive him coming up with to defend against Darth's plan. Weather or not Darth could even create billions in his army and I just don't see Reed and Lex just allowing each other that knowledge or Digi's plan coming together in time or Darth having nothing to defend againist should it all even work.

A legion of power copiers just seems far to much to take especially with Surfers powers and awareness to guide them. IMO

Great job both of you.

Both competitors did a fantastic job of convening their points. However, in my opinion, DigiMark007 won this match.

Why? Well... to put it simply; Goober had many speculative points in his battle strategy that, in order to be believed, had to be extrapolated from evidence that wasn't even close to being concrete.

Digi on the other hand, did a good job of demonstrating what his team could and would do in regards to his battle plan with solid evidence.

Also, the idea that Surfer would be able to react quickly enough for the gigantic blast not to be effective was, in a word... fishy. First of all, you've got "billions" of androids in an extremely limited area (hell, the battlefield is only 10 miles in diameter), so the blast would in reality, contact all of them. I don't think they'd be able to synchronize their movements fast enough for them to process the idea of teleporting the blast away from them!

Furthermore, the very idea of all those clones (and whatnot) working together in perfect harmony is a logistical nightmare. I doubt very much would be accomplished. So while the idea seemed solid (in theory), imo, it ended up hurting him more than helping.

Also, I noticed how Goober mentioned that Lex and Reed wouldn't be able to work together very efficiently in order for this task to be completed. Well, we've seen Lex work with heroes numerous times (Our Worlds at War being just one example of this). And considering the fact that if they don't work together properly, they'll end up perishing... I don't think Lex would have a problem acquiescing to the betterment of the team. Hell, even Darkseid has worked together with heroes before. So, in my mind, the concept of Goober trying to attack Digi's plan in this way put one word in my mind... desperation.

Voting over as of 6:30PM Central Standard Time.

Votes for Darthgoober: 9
Symmetric Chaos
Air Legend
invisiblewoman
Blair Wind
Typhus
ExodusCloak
Bentley
psycho gundam
Entity

Votes for Digimark: 4
Devil Lance
id369
King Kandy
Masterborg

Darthgoober advances to the fourth round. Digimark goes to the third round with all those who have a (1-1) record. Two wins are necessary to advance to the fourth round.

Congratulations Darth. Really both competitors did an extremely good job.

Thanks batdude...just a few minutes late though. It's 9-5 in my mind though.

Anyway, thanks for the warm-up goob ( ). I wanted to win, and gave it my all with the strategy I had, but learned a lot from this match. I hope I see you again later in the tourney. But congrats. You earned it.

And I wouldn't want to be my 3rd round opponent right about now.

Great debating Digi, I respect a lot all the things you brought up and I'm sure you are saving the best for later.

It should be fun to say the least.

Thanks Bentley.

...bumping from end of page...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thanks batdude...just a few minutes late though. It's 9-5 in my mind though.

Anyway, thanks for the warm-up goob ( ). I wanted to win, and gave it my all with the strategy I had, but learned a lot from this match. I hope I see you again later in the tourney. But congrats. You earned it.

And I wouldn't want to be my 3rd round opponent right about now.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thanks batdude...just a few minutes late though. It's 9-5 in my mind though.

Anyway, thanks for the warm-up goob ( ). I wanted to win, and gave it my all with the strategy I had, but learned a lot from this match. I hope I see you again later in the tourney. But congrats. You earned it.

And I wouldn't want to be my 3rd round opponent right about now.
Thanks Digi, and thanks for a good match too. I knew that I didn't have the tourney "in the bag" so to speak, but you REALLY had me worried there towards the end.

Good luck in the coming rounds and I look forward to round 2.

Hmm, this was one of the best matches I've read through in my 2 years on KMC. Irresistible force vs overwhelming numbers. Both plans had some minor holes where we had to make a leap of faith but I think both Darth and Digi brought enough evidence to support their plans. I can say that I'm glad I didn't have to vote as this is one of the tightest tournament rounds I've seen. Congratulations to Digi and Darth for having a great round.

Amazing match. I feel bad for missing the vote, not like it would have made a difference no matter which competitor I supported.

A very big congrats to both Digimark and Darthgoober - I very much doubt that ANYONE in this tourney looks forward to taking on either of you.

. Hopefully neither of you have gone all out yet, I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the end of this thing.

if only you guys wrote it in story format, it would have been awesome.

Originally posted by Soljer
Hopefully neither of you have gone all out yet, I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the end of this thing.

I haven't. Goober probably hasn't either. Who knows, maybe he'll try for trillions next time.



But it's mainly incremental improvements and additions, maybe only 1-2 major additions from here on out. The gun might actually be the most offensive output you'll see from me (not sure yet), but I dislike inelegant tactics that are little else but brute force (which we both used this match). Still, it's effective, but I plan on being a bit more subtle when possible.

But I do hope I see goober again...and I'm sure the general public would enjoy it once again. I focused on the gun a bit much in this match, and didn't explore other options available to me, figuring that the gun + debunking would be enough (though I do think it was, and won't recant my position). Anyway, kind of sloppy on my part, but I won't make the same mistake twice.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
if only you guys wrote it in story format, it would have been awesome. Nah it would have sucked.

Nice! Awesome match..

Haven't been following this years tournies.

I've got some diggin up to do, hopefully the other matches are this exciting..

Originally posted by psycho gundam
if only you guys wrote it in story format, it would have been awesome. So why don't you?

You could go through and compile the matches into a fanfiction that the contestants helped you to write. Then if someone with skill wanted to draw them into comic(s) kmc could have a way of making fan comics...

What do you think?