Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/3000/2354/16104-flash_400.jpg vs http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/3000/2349/90594-darkseid_400.jpg

He 'drops infinity on his domepiece'.

can Flash outrun the Omega Beam?

Why these pictures? WHY?

Not even Celestials can defeat the Flash.

Originally posted by great_dane
well the truth is, i dont see him coming close to flash in speed, and if flash were to take his kinetic energy from him and viabrate through him the way he did to kill anti-monitor, then exitar doesnt stand a chance. that, and a good ol speedforce dump would get rid of him for good.

if flash was able to beet anti-monitor, then he can beat some retarted character like exitar. he looks like a bucket for gods sakes

Originally posted by great_dane
well Iv'e given ways that flash would easily take this idiot down. how would exitar beat him?

thor was able to crack his armor, flash hitting him with a couple million infinate mass punches to the tempo would kill him, instantly.

flash would be able to use heat touch and melt his armor off his head, then (at speeds of light) shit on him like a toilet

Originally posted by great_dane
ummm................no..


so he warps reality a lil bit, flash time travles and warps it back himself.

creating god-like beings ? they'd instantly explode while flash viabrated through them.

power cosmic is like a tent on skid row compared to the playboy mansion(playboy mansion being the speedforce)

Originally posted by great_dane
o, ok.

i mean flash couldnt viabrate through it right?

and before he threw it, hed be sitting next to savater in the speedforce like "you too huh?"

savatar-"ya...................... that lil ***** dude, one second i think im the shit, the next i'm getting fu cked up"

exitar-"ya tell me about, wher i come from, i have this backfiring power that never seems to work called cosimc...well anyway, its supposed to give me all these crazy powers and high cosmic being reality warping, time shifting powers. but for some reason i couldnt see the little bastard"


savatar-"ya, tell me about it,, hey........... you gonna eat that?"

exitar-" eat what?"

savatar slowly stands up and farts in his mouth


*both sitting with an awkward silence....

Speed is overrated.

Originally posted by SpiderGauntlet
Speed is overrated.

I prefer crack myself.

Originally posted by Rorschach
I prefer crack myself.



Darkseid wins. I doubt Wally can do much damage to him, even if he can outrun the Omega Beam.

SpeedForce isn't all that, it only seems to apply to a few characters. those who get their powers (and speed) outside of The SpeedForce are not susceptible to The Flash's manipulation of speed.

that said, Flash FTW.

Originally posted by SpiderGauntlet
Speed is overrated.

Still, it gets the job done. Overrated or not.

Flash wins.

Originally posted by janus77
well he was achieving the same effect with it though, which brings up the question as to what exactly the difference is?

Zoom exists in his own timeline, he is not moving fast in his timelime, but in ours(Flash's) it is perceived as super speed.

what I'm saying is that by weaving in and out of the timeline, he's basically achieving the same thing as Flash does with the Speed Force, no?

how do you define the difference? Speedforce is a dimension/force too isn't it?

Originally posted by janus77
what I'm saying is that by weaving in and out of the timeline, he's basically achieving the same thing as Flash does with the Speed Force, no?

how do you define the difference? Speedforce is a dimension/force too isn't it?

Flash gets his powers from another dimension, but he exists in one timelime, Zoom does not have powers that make him go fast, he is not moving faster than the average human in his timelime, but in ours he is. Just because he is achieves the same results of Flash doesn't make their powers similar. Superman can lift a truck with his super strength, Cable can lift it with telekinesis, both have the same results but are done in two very different ways.

true but Flash enters the SpeedForce, in order to achieve the >C speeds, which puts him in a direct parallel to Zoom and his timeline.

all I'm saying is that they are equivalents, just that one is lateral the other vertical... stepping into the Speed Force dimension but remaining in synch with the current object dimension, or staying in a dimension with a different timeline and stepping into different places on the object dimension.

just something interesting about the nature of speed/time... they're both the same thing imo, can't really demonstrate a workable separation.


as to the TK/strength thing, they are indeed the same in effect and if Flash attempted to steal kinetic energy from the actions (not the actors) in both instances he might only be able to do it in the case of strength, while from the perspective of the truck... it's still getting lifted.

Originally posted by janus77
true but Flash enters the SpeedForce, in order to achieve the >C speeds, which puts him in a direct parallel to Zoom and his timeline.

all I'm saying is that they are equivalents, just that one is lateral the other vertical... stepping into the Speed Force dimension but remaining in synch with the current object dimension, or staying in a dimension with a different timeline and stepping into different places on the object dimension.

just something interesting about the nature of speed/time... they're both the same thing imo, can't really demonstrate a workable separation.


as to the TK/strength thing, they are indeed the same in effect and if Flash attempted to steal kinetic energy from the actions (not the actors) in both instances he might only be able to do it in the case of strength, while from the perspective of the truck... it's still getting lifted.

Umm, no, Flash entering the speed force has no relation to Zoom's timeline, where did you get they were parallels?

Zoom moves forward in time at will, really he should not have a limit on how fast he can go. I think you might have missed the point of my example of tk/strength. I was saying they are both two distinct methods that end in the same result. Just because 2 ways can result in the same thing doesn't mean they are similar.

Originally posted by Rorschach
An explanation on how Zoom's powers work

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/826/flashv2200page08lj8.th.jpghttp://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7814/flashv2200page09bc6.th.jpg

Shit someone actually believes d flash can beat exitar the celestial? Insane

I was talking about how Time and Space cannot be separated out into discernible, distinct phenomena.

after all, even Einstein had to settle for "SpaceTime" no?

oh and also, the first scan makes my point regarding stealing Speed - only possible if they are using the Speed Force, as the Flash in the tin hat says

Originally posted by janus77
I was talking about how Time and Space cannot be separated out into discernible, distinct phenomena.

after all, even Einstein had to settle for "SpaceTime" no?

Ok, everyone is moving in direct parallel to Zoom if by direct parallel you mean they are within spacetime...

Jay never says that they can only steal speed from people using the Speed Force just that he's moving through time instead of using the Speed Force and that's why they can't steal his speed. He's not using speed. Superman uses his own strength not the speed force to run at light speed and Flash can steal his speed.

Though I think Wally could win against Darkseid if he could BFR him.

well, for Zoom to even interact with the object dimension when, according to tin-hat-Flash - he is in a separate and more advanced timeline, they would have to share the same timespace at the point of interaction, thus Zoom would either pop-in and out of this reality or move faster within the reality (ie be faster) as a result of his effect on the time in his immediate vicinity, either way... they aren't really separable ideas.

think of it this way, for Flash to have a kinetic dimension (the SpeedForce) with which to interact, he has to basically bring another dimension into contact with the object dimension, which is precisely the same thing Zoom has to do, with his respective dimension, but while in the object dimension, the phenomena is expressed through being really fast...

Originally posted by Kento
Jay never says that they can only steal speed from people using the Speed Force just that he's moving through time instead of using the Speed Force and that's why they can't steal his speed. He's not using speed. Superman uses his own strength not the speed force to run at light speed and Flash can steal his speed.

Though I think Wally could win against Darkseid if he could BFR him.
tin hat Flash explicitly states that Zoom is not using the Speed Force and therefore they cannot steal speed from him.

Originally posted by janus77
tin hat Flash explicitly states that Zoom is not using the Speed Force and therefore they cannot steal speed from him. No Jay says they can't steal his speed because he's using a different element than the Speed Force and is tapping into time. It's kinda hard to take speed away from something that isn't using super speed at all. Wally has taken speed from people who have nothing to do with the Speed Force.

Originally posted by janus77
tin hat Flash explicitly states that Zoom is not using the Speed Force and therefore they cannot steal speed from him.

Except that he's stolen speed from someone that doesn't use the Speed Force. Zoom is the exception.

Originally posted by Kento
No Jay says they can't steal his speed because he's using a different element than the Speed Force and is tapping into time.
that is it in a nutshell, it states what the prerequisite is for operating a speed steal.

Originally posted by Rorschach
Except that he's stolen speed from someone that doesn't use the Speed Force. Zoom is the exception.
and he's been KO'd by guys who aren't even Superman fast. doesn't change the mechanistic argument, which is what we have when discussing powersets.

Originally posted by janus77
that is it in a nutshell, it states what the prerequisite is for operating a speed steal. Or it could just be to explain he's not really moving fast at all and isn't a speedster like them. If you needed to have the Speed Force to have the speed stolen from you Wally couldn't steal speed from bullets or lend and steal speed other people that wasn't Jessie, Bart, or Jay which he has plenty of times.

Or just maybe they thought he was a speedster just like all of them also and that's why Jay said it since Jay was telling them his theory on Zoom.

Originally posted by janus77
well, for Zoom to even interact with the object dimension when, according to tin-hat-Flash - he is in a separate and more advanced timeline, they would have to share the same timespace at the point of interaction, thus Zoom would either pop-in and out of this reality or move faster within the reality (ie be faster) as a result of his effect on the time in his immediate vicinity, either way... they aren't really separable ideas.

think of it this way, for Flash to have a kinetic dimension (the SpeedForce) with which to interact, he has to basically bring another dimension into contact with the object dimension, which is precisely the same thing Zoom has to do, with his respective dimension, but while in the object dimension, the phenomena is expressed through being really fast...

I'm sorry, what point are you even trying to make?

You asked what the difference was and I told you, just because they use similar 'methods to produce their speed doesnt make them the same. There are powers the speed force provides which Zoom doesn't have, and there are things Zoom can do the speedforce users can't.

Jay was also wrong about Zoom not having the ability to be able to move backwards in time.

Lets face the facts: Jay sucks.

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SuperPowersV2_6of6_14.jpg

Originally posted by King_Mungi


1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SuperPowersV2_6of6_14.jpg

Got anything that isn't two decades old? .

Originally posted by Soljer
Got anything that isn't two decades old? .

It was more for a joke hence the "shifty" smile, but I see someone is testy today

Originally posted by Master-Borg
can Flash outrun the Omega Beam?
In AVENGERS/JLA he did it, catching the Infinity Gauntlet before Darkseid teleported the invading heroes to the Savage Land, the problem here are Wally's durability and the fact that Darkseid has more abilities at his disposal and at his peak, not the punching ball he is now, he's a Skyfather.