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No items/gadgets for either fighter.

No prep

Fight takes place in a Hell's Kitchen/Gotham amalgam city.

No other inhabitants of either city get involved.

Fight to k.o.

Batman 6/10

I featureless environment I give it to Daredevil 6/10 or even split.

However in this city environment I feel it gives Daredevil a greater advantage so a solid 6/10 maybe 7/10

Without gear DD wins 5.5/10

50/50.

Both are evenly matched in combat ability and are very formidable in city like environments.

I'm surprised this has not been done before

Originally posted by ScarletSpeed
I'm surprised this has not been done before


Oh it has a few times, just same shit different pile.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=321834

Batman 6/10.

Batman 9/10. What's this 6/10, 7/10 BS.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Batman 9/10. What's this 6/10, 7/10 BS.
That means DD is going to win either 3 or 4 times out of 10.

Batman will out smart him every time. I gave him 1 just to be nice.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
50/50.

Both are evenly matched in combat ability and are very formidable in city like environments.

How is DD a matched with someone who has trained a lot longer, master almost every known fighting style from the best fighters in DC, physically superior, and is by far a more intelligent fighter overall? Batman does not need prep or any gadgets in this fight. He's always thinking in the middle of a battle. That's how he takes out much stronger foes. Do you think that DD with his superhuman senses and quick reflexes could take on Slade and do a better job than Batman?

I can see Cap being more of a match with Batman than DD. If DD can't take out Cap why should he be able to defeat Batman? At least Cap has the SSS to give him an edge. DD's senses can go against him. what if he's near a lot of noise, Batman would waste no time in laying him out. They are fighting in the city after all. There is always al lot if noise around. And it won't take Batman long to figure out DD's weakness.

Bats would likely get his ass handed to him every time. DD for the sweep. The radar sense will be too much for Batman to handle.

Gadgets are the only way Batman will ever logically beat DD. Even w/those he'd have to create some distance between them because DD will sense him reaching for anything & snuff it. DD's too damn fast & will evade Batman w/ease. Next time one of these is made the author shoud have them wearing either gi or MMA style shorts or pure cloth suits(ignore what I said if you consider Batsuit a gagdet/item). Batman has protection over most of his body. Won't mean much though because DD will sense that from the start & throw a facepunching(chinpunching) party & will also know ANY weak parts on Batsuit.

Despite what many try to say Batman was not equal to SteveCap h2h. SteveCap was slightly better. Batman can beat SteveCap in h2h now for one & only one reason.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
I can see Cap being more of a match with Batman than DD. If DD can't take out Cap why should he be able to defeat Batman? At least Cap has the SSS to give him an edge. DD's senses can go against him. what if he's near a lot of noise, Batman would waste no time in laying him out. They are fighting in the city after all. There is always al lot if noise around. And it won't take Batman long to figure out DD's weakness.
It's pretty obvious you don't read Daredevil comics.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
I can see Cap being more of a match with Batman than DD.
Captain America would defeat Batman the majority.


Originally posted by thadarknite84
If DD can't take out Cap why should he be able to defeat Batman?
He has in 3 pannels.

Also if Daredevil could not beat Capt that does not mean he loses to Batman that awful Logic.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
DD's senses can go against him. what if he's near a lot of noise, Batman would waste no time in laying him out.
It a one on one fight why would there be a lot of noises?

So now Batman needs out side help to win?

Originally posted by thadarknite84
They are fighting in the city after all. There is always al lot if noise around. And it won't take Batman long to figure out DD's weakness.

There are no people around lol. It just them. If there was supposes to be others around the maker would not have made in hand two hand.

Also Daredevil fights in the city ever day and it never effects him.

Originally posted by Mindset
It's pretty obvious you don't read Daredevil comics.

Lol you think this is bad check out the hand ninja thread he far worses there.

Originally posted by brainchild81
Bats would likely get his ass handed to him every time. DD for the sweep. The radar sense will be too much for Batman to handle.

Gadgets are the only way Batman will ever logically beat DD. Even w/those he'd have to create some distance between them because DD will sense him reaching for anything & snuff it. DD's too damn fast & will evade Batman w/ease. Next time one of these is made the author shoud have them wearing either gi or MMA style shorts or pure cloth suits(ignore what I said if you consider Batsuit a gagdet/item). Batman has protection over most of his body. Won't mean much though because DD will sense that from the start & throw a facepunching(chinpunching) party & will also know ANY weak parts on Batsuit.

Despite what many try to say Batman was not equal to SteveCap h2h. SteveCap was slightly better. Batman can beat SteveCap in h2h now for one & only one reason.

Wrong if Batman can land a hit on Slade, He will hit DD. DD is not peak Human and he does not have Spidey's speed. His super senses will be his downfall. Bullseye gives DD trouble. What makes you think that DD will take Batman so or at all?

Bats or NW v.Slade fights I've seen have been choc full of PIS. No human is a match for Slade. DDs senses could only be a weakness in this fight if Bats had his tech. He don't. Bullseye gives damn near everybody that's streetlevel trouble. He kills the way normal people breathe. Batman is great & all & would hand many a beatdown in h2h. DD is not one of those people though. Slade doesn't see in 360 degrees last time I checked either. The instant Bats tenses the muscle in his fist, DD knows. DD can beat Cap in h2h. Bat's can't. DD's senses + skill combo give him the W over many. & yes Bruce IS one of those people

Originally posted by brainchild81
Bats or NW v.Slade fights I've seen have been choc full of PIS. No human is a match for Slade. DDs senses could only be a weakness in this fight if Bats had his tech. He don't. Bullseye gives damn near everybody that's streetlevel trouble. He kills the way normal people breathe. Batman is great & all & would hand many a beatdown in h2h. DD is not one of those people though. Slade doesn't see in 360 degrees last time I checked either. The instant Bats tenses the muscle in his fist, DD knows. DD can beat Cap in h2h. Bat's can't. DD's senses + skill combo give him the W over many. & yes Bruce IS one of those people

Ok so DD can sense Batman tensing the muscles in his fist. What's your point? He is not super fast or anything. Batman is stronger and hits harder. And Batman can hit DD. What's PIS?

Plot Induced Stupidity. He's faster than Bats because he'll always have a head start because of the senses. Don't need to be Super fast, just faster than Bruce(more agile too) DD can hit Bats waaaaaaaaay easier than Bats could ever hit DD. & what proves that Bats is stronger? I've seen DD weild a loaded barbell like a staff.

My thing is this, what's the point in telling someone cartoons and crossovers are not canon. And when something happens in the story that is canon, someone say that it's PIS. You can't have it both ways.

what?

Well they aren't canon so they have to tell you that. & unfortunately PIS does exist. If Bats punched Supes into orbit in a comic, would you not consider it PIS? W/Slades powers & smarts no human should be a match for him.

I don't think hitting slade is PIS. to be honest I think slades overrate. He is physically superior, but not by a margin that would make batman unable to hit him. Batman's superior skill allows him to battle slade.

Originally posted by brainchild81
Well they aren't canon so they have to tell you that. & unfortunately PIS does exist. If Bats punched Supes into orbit in a comic, would you not consider it PIS? W/Slades powers & smarts no human should be a match for him.

Yes, but not Batman and Nightwing fighting Slade. Not after watching Batman take on creatures like Clayface and the Man-Bat.

...clayface should murder batman..........man-bat not really that tough lol

Batman hitting Slade is one thing. Beating him should NEVER happen.

He never really beaten him though not that I recall.

Batman can deffiently gave slade a match. Slade physically superior, but he simply not as skilled and though he superior he not so much in agility, reflex and combat speed that batman can't fallow his movements

Originally posted by Battlehammer
...clayface should murder batman..........man-bat not really that tough lol Batman wins because Batprep > Any Dc super villain. Agreed crazy thing happen sometimes.

yeah, slade on paper is a lot tougher batman to put down

Originally posted by brainchild81
Plot Induced Stupidity. He's faster than Bats because he'll always have a head start because of the senses. Don't need to be Super fast, just faster than Bruce(more agile too) DD can hit Bats waaaaaaaaay easier than Bats could ever hit DD. & what proves that Bats is stronger? I've seen DD weild a loaded barbell like a staff.

Can DD press over 850 lbs? because Batman can.

Daredevil flipped over a limo........

Big deal. I've seen Big Show flip over a mini van and Batman is much stronger than him.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Big deal. I've seen Big Show flip over a mini van and Batman is much stronger than him.

Laughing My Fu-king Ass Off

I don't understand you at all, Battlehammer. In the Wolverine vs Cap vs Batman vs Spider-Man thread. You seem to think that Batman and the other could keep up with Spider-Man and give him some kind of trouble. But now DD's too much for Batman to handle, how does that make any sense. Spider-Man should be more harder to handle not DD.

Originally posted by Mindset
Laughing My Fu-king Ass Off

What's so funny?

Originally posted by thadarknite84
I don't understand you at all, Battlehammer. In the Wolverine vs Cap vs Batman vs Spider-Man thread. You seem to think that Batman and the other could keep up with Spider-Man and give him some kind of trouble. But now DD's too much for Batman to handle, how does that make any sense. Spider-Man should be more harder to handle not DD.
They can keep up with him.

Yes DD is to much for batman to take the majority.

DD would fair better vs spiderman then batman would.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Big deal. I've seen Big Show flip over a mini van and Batman is much stronger than him. this is pretty funny, nobody is laughing at you (imo)but rather the idea that batman is stronger than a pro wrestler that weighs 450+ pounds and stands like 7 feet tall. supposedly logan can lift 850 and he is only 5'3'', just seems funny.

umm Logan has lifted 1,600 with one arm and through it, but then again he not human and his inhuman strength.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Big deal. I've seen Big Show flip over a mini van and Batman is much stronger than him.

van would be easier to flipp..........also he flipped it completely on it back if not mistaken instead of it side.

Also pro wrestling fake lol he likly did not do it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
umm Logan has lifted 1,600 with one arm and through it, but then again he not human and his inhuman strength. sorry, just because an artist or writer does not know how much a dumpster weighs, does not mean Logan can lift 1600 with one arm

do you realize how ridiculous that is...that means he's more than 2x stronger than Cap.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
this is pretty funny, nobody is laughing at you (imo)but rather the idea that batman is stronger than a pro wrestler that weighs 450+ pounds and stands like 7 feet tall. supposedly logan can lift 850 and he is only 5'3'', just seems funny.

So because of Big Show size and weight, it's unlikely that Batman would be stronger? Big Show does not train as hard as Batman, nowhere near. Batman would kick his ass with ease and every other WWE superstar.

lol you never seen a world strongest man contest have you? 850 is an extreme feat of strength, and the last time I checked, batman doesn't train power lifting more than Magnus ver Magnusson.

batman is also quite a bit leaner than them and body mass is key to lifting weight.

Do you understand what peak human is? Batman's strength, speed, agility, stamina, durability are at the Pinnacle of human perfection.

I do think batman would win though, but the fight would be long and both of them would look like week old shit after.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
sorry, just because an artist or writer does not know how much a dumpster weighs, does not mean Logan can lift 1600 with one arm

do you realize how ridiculous that is...that means he's more than 2x stronger than Cap.

This really is the places for this, so i keep it short.


He can, he did and he done other comparable feats to it.


Lol you really have not seen some of capt feats have you?

It really would not matter if he two times stronger then capt. He not suposes to be peak-human he suposes to be meta. His characters been like that from day one.

Originally posted by Battlehammer


Lol you really have not seen some of capt feats have you?



so what...some of batman's feats put him beyond CL100, are we to assume he's a 100 tonner then?

Originally posted by Master-Borg
so what...some of batman's feats put him beyond CL100, are we to assume he's a 100 tonner then?

what feats place him there?

Differences is mr. Logan has been stated with inhuman strength ect. He has also shown it from the beggining.

this really is not the thread for this.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
What's so funny?

Wrestling is fake

Originally posted by Battlehammer
what feats place him there?



He's taken out Grundy with punches and kicks.

He's managed to kick a speeding Captain Marvel hundreds of feet into the air.

He's fought h2h against Darkseid.

I could go on and on...

he has much more impressive feats than throwing a garbage can

Originally posted by Battlehammer


this really is not the thread for this. you always say that...so what is the thread to discuss logan's strength? bump it

all that strength stuff should be ignored imo, it questionable at the very least.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
He's taken out Grundy with punches and kicks.

He's managed to kick a speeding Captain Marvel hundreds of feet into the air.

He's fought h2h against Darkseid.

I could go on and on...

he has much more impressive feats than throwing a garbage can

lol. It common knowledge that using feats of hitting highly durable characters as a strength feat is just bad debating.

It impossiable to judge them, Character like hawlk eye who ahve proven that they can lift like 400 pounds at best have shown to hurt highly durable individuals, there to many factors involved, Ones punching forces is far stronger then ones strength.


first one almost any street leveler has done comparable feats and far from makes him even superhuman let alone class 100.

..........I like to see this feat of kickign captain marvel.

how does fighting some one h2h a strength feat?


None of thoses are strength feats in the comic senses and you be laughed at if you tried to post them as such in the respect thread.

the captain marvel might be an legitment strength feat though.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
you always say that...so what is the thread to discuss logan's strength? bump it
we can do it via PM and if you rather do it non pm then I can bump a thread.

I say it becuases you always bring shit off topic and debate about wolverine in the wrong threads.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
we can do it via PM and if you rather do it non pm then I can bump a thread.
please bump it...I like to settle logan's strength once and for all

I think Batman would win this fight against DD, he did a nice job fighting AM

http://img28.exs.cx/img28/228/aqbat1.jpg
http://img28.exs.cx/img28/9427/aqbat2.jpg
http://img28.exs.cx/img28/7290/aqbat3.jpg


DD's speed and agility is not too much for Batman to handle

http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img9&image=batagile63lb.jpg

Batman is stronger than DD as I have said

http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img114&image=baton14lm.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img114&image=baton25yx.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img114&image=baton32ll.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gothamknights1pg304wr.jpg

And his would end the fight fast

http://img5.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc299&image=d8a_batpalm.jpg

Originally posted by thadarknite84
I think Batman would win this fight against DD, he did a nice job fighting AM

http://img28.exs.cx/img28/228/aqbat1.jpg
http://img28.exs.cx/img28/9427/aqbat2.jpg
http://img28.exs.cx/img28/7290/aqbat3.jpg

Batman should be dead if he got hit by Aquaman like that. That was some great writing right there.



Batman is not stronger than DD.

http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilv2042092oc.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil179071ug.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil179085lp.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil179098is.jpg

I agreed that Batman might take 6 out of 10, but your overrating the character a bit.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Do you understand what peak human is? Batman's strength, speed, agility, stamina, durability are at the Pinnacle of human perfection.

How can Batman be peak human and only weigh 210lbs that is DC bulsh!t. Even cap at 240 lbs is a little light but he has SSS. Bats trains like a normal guy. Also being good at martial arts and being good at power lifting are virtually mutually exclusive. None of the really good martial artist in my gym are all that good at power lifting. There are rare exceptions Housten Alexander can bench 500lbs (which is not peak human)

Originally posted by severance
How can Batman be peak human and only weigh 210lbs that is DC bulsh!t. Even cap at 240 lbs is a little light but he has SSS. Bats trains like a normal guy. Also being good at martial arts and being good at power lifting are virtually mutually exclusive. None of the really good martial artist in my gym are all that good at power lifting. There are rare exceptions Housten Alexander can bench 500lbs (which is not peak human)

He does not train like an normal guy. If that was the case he would not be man he is today. Batman has nowhere near normal strength. And he is not just good at martial arts, he's a master.There is a lot more to lifting than just raw power. You also need technique. Someone who's smaller and has technique can lift more than someone who is much bigger without any technique. I've seen it many times. I lift weights myself. So I know what I'm talking about. And don't tell me that it's BS, tell DC Comics that.

Stronger= Batman
More adapted to a city fighting environment= Daredevil
More acrobatic= Daredevil
More intelligent= Batman (but there's no prep, so...)
More accurate= Daredevil
Better senses= Daredevil

In such an environment, DD is given the edge. 6/10, maybe 7/10

Originally posted by thadarknite84
He does not train like an normal guy. If that was the case he would not be man he is today. Batman has nowhere near normal strength. And he is not just good at martial arts, he's a master.There is a lot more to lifting than just raw power. You also need technique. Someone who's smaller and has technique can lift more than someone who is much bigger without any technique. I've seen it many times. I lift weights myself. So I know what I'm talking about. And don't tell me that it's BS, tell DC Comics that.

Exactly. You just basically proved the DD supporter's point. Batman is a bigger person than DD and can lift heavy weights, but DD has better technique due to senses so he can pick out perfect balance/angles. Did you see the scans? He wielded a 450 barbell like a staff, and then threw it about ten feet. That's pretty amazing.

And does strength really count? One blow in the right place and Batman is out for the count. He's not as acrobatic as DD. And if you don't believe that, I'll put up a shitload of DD's acrobat feats as well.

Well actually Matt is faster and more agile then Bruce plus his hyper senses enable him to anticipate his opponents movements which would make things hard for Bruce. On the other hand, I believe in terms of endurance Bruce is superior and is more naturally skilled since I believe Matt's hyper senses put him on a equal footing with Batman. As far as battle savvy goes, I agree Bruce is superior there as well but Matt has still been proven to be very formidable in a city like element just like Bruce has. His feats are very impressive too.

BTW, more styles doesn't always equal more skilled automatically. Daredevil has been trained by the mystical Stick who's definitely more skilled then Bruce in martial arts.



I'm aware of this but we're talking unarmed combat. In which case they're records against other elite fighters are quite comparable thus the reason why I believe it can go either way.



Nope. I think Matt could at best do equally as good as Bruce on average judging by his fights with Captain America who I consider an equal to Slade in combat.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
DD is not at peak human strength Batman is. That's a fact.

http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img61&image=batrunk8dj.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img61&image=batchain28zn.jpg
http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img61&image=batchain32ut.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img61&image=batcord2lx.jpg


And yet DD's feats seem to match Batmans is speed and strength.

This fights a coin toss.

Strongly disagree as we've seen elite MAs stalemate DD despite his senses. IMO, its his super senses that enable to do as well as he does. Without them he's not as formidable since Matt built his fighting style around his senses making him more effective in combat.





A little biased here are we?

It's a proven fact that Batman and NW have done quite well against Slade whether you like it or not.



Exactly (except for the overrated part lol).



He did KO Slade with his own rifle in Detective Comics but he was beaten the first time around.

Their feats match, but DD's senses bump him up over Batman's skills.

Actually I'd say it goes like this:
Strength: Equal
Agility: DD (No different from NW or Batgirl IMO)
Speed: DD (slighty as his senses give him the edge)
Battle Savvy: Batman (you don't need prep in a city like environment to use it to your advantage)
Skill: Batman (although I put Matt on an equal footing overall due to his hyper senses)
Endurance: Batman

Not sure what you mean by accurate and senses are a given since Bruce has none.

No, I meant accuracy. As in, who is more likely to hit a target far away with a thrown object?

And I know Bruce has none. Which is part of the reason that DD wins.

Well i guess because he has none means he will lose right? lol

I thought the OP said no weapons?

btw bats has great aim

Sure does he's one of the best marksmen in the DCU

I know, yeah, he has great aim, but I meant that he has no senses, which gives DD the edge. Sorry, my writing is shit at this not-so-early hour.

Originally posted by Etrigan
Their feats match, but DD's senses bump him up over Batman's skills.


No exactly DD's senses can be a gift or a curse depending on the situation.

Plus Bats skills in anticipation are remarkable if not radarish in his own right. This fight is very close.


Strength is equal or Bats is a hair over.

Durability is equal or Bats is a hair over.

In speed/agility same for DD is a bit over.

Skill DD is the better pressure-pointer but not by much, but Bats is the better mixed martial artist.

Radar/Senses gives DD a slight edge with anticipation and accuracy. But Bats skill is no slouch in that department as well.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
No exactly DD's senses can be a gift or a curse depending on the situation.

Plus Bats skills in anticipation are remarkable if not radarish in his own right. This fight is very close.


Strength is equal or Bats is a hair over.

Durability is equal or Bats is a hair over.

In speed/agility same for DD is a bit over.

Skill DD is the better pressure-pointer but not by much, but Bats is the better mixed martial artist.

Radar/Senses gives DD a slight edge with anticipation and accuracy. But Bats skill is no slouch in that department as well.

Ive never seen Batman presure point people like DD let alone Cap. Marvel street levelers are on another level IMO

DD uses pressure points more commonly than Batman does but Bruce knows very lethal and unique techniques that few people in the world about or know how to use.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ive never seen Batman presure point people like DD let alone Cap. Marvel street levelers are on another level IMO



IIRC Bats pressure pointed a Green Arrow and paralyzed his arm or leg or some such. IIRC also Batman once talked about countering a certain pressure-point by a method of breathing.

Those are pretty impressive if they occurred, I remember seeing scans of those a long time ago.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
IIRC Bats pressure pointed a Green Arrow and paralyzed his arm or leg or some such. IIRC also Batman once talked about countering a certain pressure-point by a method of breathing.

Those are pretty impressive if they occurred, I remember seeing scans of those a long time ago.

Yeah people like Cap and DD use it on people with superhuman durability.

Originally posted by Etrigan
No, I meant accuracy. As in, who is more likely to hit a target far away with a thrown object?

And I know Bruce has none. Which is part of the reason that DD wins.

Are you serious?

Please go to the Batman respect thread and check out his level of accuracy with thrown items. There should be several examples of that (one of my favorites is when he is tailing Superman and Supergirl, who are walking while dressed in civies, and some Amazon lady shoots an arrow at him. Without even looking at it, he whips out a batarang and throws it, without looking, at the oncoming arrow .....which is split by the batarang, and the batarang continues on to hit the bow and crack it in half).

Now, I am not knocking Matt's skills with thrown projectiles .....all I am saying is that the assertion that Bruce is somehow deficient because he doesn't have 'senses' is pure BS.

Bullseye, for example, doesn't have the enhanced senses of DD, yet he is an exceedingly good marksman.

As for the senses arena ....while Bruce doesn't have Matt's level of senses, he is still good enough to dodge sniper rounds (that are fired at him without him knowing) simply by feeling the slight over-pressure in air as the bullet heads towards him. Now, that is something DD does on a regular basis, but for Batman to do it (although several of the Bat-family regularly do such things, e.g. Batgirl) it shows that his senses are not exactly 'normal.'

Anyways, my only reason for being in this thread (which I believe has been tackled before, to far greater length and with attached scans) was because of that 'point' that Bruce is deficient in accuracy.

To be honest, if you had an accuracy competition, and in it you had Batman, Daredevil, Bullseye and Green Arrow (Ollie), you would NOT be able to tell any difference between their accuracy. All of them would be hitting CONSTANT bullseyes. Whether it be shuriken throwing, arrows, javelin throws, or even handguns ....all of them would basically be flawless shots, and would all hit bullseyes, and it would be impossible to tell who was better.

If you went for trickshots differences may start to appear, depending on how hard it is .....but in most cases all would SEEM equal.

The only way differences would appear would be if you made it almost obscenely difficult .....e.g. use a paperclip to hit the left eye of a bird flying past you at 35mph, when it is 50 feet up, and you have to hit it within a window of half a second.

In such a case you'd probably see Bullseye emerge as the winner.

But in all other accuracy competitions, you really would not be able to differentiate between a batarang thrown by Batman, one thrown by Daredevil, and one thrown by Bullseye. All would be 100% on target.

Originally posted by Etrigan
Exactly. You just basically proved the DD supporter's point. Batman is a bigger person than DD and can lift heavy weights, but DD has better technique due to senses so he can pick out perfect balance/angles. Did you see the scans? He wielded a 450 barbell like a staff, and then threw it about ten feet. That's pretty amazing.

And does strength really count? One blow in the right place and Batman is out for the count. He's not as acrobatic as DD. And if you don't believe that, I'll put up a shitload of DD's acrobat feats as well.

Wrong, You don't what you are talking about.

1. Intelligence doesn't only apply to prep, it applies with everything Batman does.

2. Nightwing too is more agile than Batman. But that alone won't give him a victory over Batman, that gos for DD as well. And Batman is not far behind at all, he is very close.

3. DD is more adapted to a city fighting environment, so what is Gotham then, is it not a city.

4. DD's more accurate, maybe. I've never seen Batman miss with a batarang.

5. Better senses. Ok, I'll give him that. But Batman's senses work perfectly. And you're forgetting who has train longer and who knows more fighting styles. And don't come telling me that it's just my opinion that Batman has train longer. DD does not have Bruce's money or his resources to do so. Batman started when he was 8 years old. And just one more thing, DD is not peak human nor does he have more technique than Batman. And that's because Batman fighting knowledge is past DD's.

6. DD won't out lasted Batman neither. Batman Stamina is also at the peak of what is capable for a human without the SSS.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Are you serious?

Please go to the Batman respect thread and check out his level of accuracy with thrown items. There should be several examples of that (one of my favorites is when he is tailing Superman and Supergirl, who are walking while dressed in civies, and some Amazon lady shoots an arrow at him. Without even looking at it, he whips out a batarang and throws it, without looking, at the oncoming arrow .....which is split by the batarang, and the batarang continues on to hit the bow and crack it in half).

Now, I am not knocking Matt's skills with thrown projectiles .....all I am saying is that the assertion that Bruce is somehow deficient because he doesn't have 'senses' is pure BS.

Bullseye, for example, doesn't have the enhanced senses of DD, yet he is an exceedingly good marksman.

As for the senses arena ....while Bruce doesn't have Matt's level of senses, he is still good enough to dodge sniper rounds (that are fired at him without him knowing) simply by feeling the slight over-pressure in air as the bullet heads towards him. Now, that is something DD does on a regular basis, but for Batman to do it (although several of the Bat-family regularly do such things, e.g. Batgirl) it shows that his senses are not exactly 'normal.'

Anyways, my only reason for being in this thread (which I believe has been tackled before, to far greater length and with attached scans) was because of that 'point' that Bruce is deficient in accuracy.

To be honest, if you had an accuracy competition, and in it you had Batman, Daredevil, Bullseye and Green Arrow (Ollie), you would NOT be able to tell any difference between their accuracy. All of them would be hitting CONSTANT bullseyes. Whether it be shuriken throwing, arrows, javelin throws, or even handguns ....all of them would basically be flawless shots, and would all hit bullseyes, and it would be impossible to tell who was better.

If you went for trickshots differences may start to appear, depending on how hard it is .....but in most cases all would SEEM equal.

The only way differences would appear would be if you made it almost obscenely difficult .....e.g. use a paperclip to hit the left eye of a bird flying past you at 35mph, when it is 50 feet up, and you have to hit it within a window of half a second.

In such a case you'd probably see Bullseye emerge as the winner.

But in all other accuracy competitions, you really would not be able to differentiate between a batarang thrown by Batman, one thrown by Daredevil, and one thrown by Bullseye. All would be 100% on target.

To be fair Batman does not always show senses on that level and I think Bullseyes would really come out on top with accuracy.

Batman does too. Although Bruce's striking power seems to do the trick just fine in some cases against metas.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
Batman does too. Although Bruce's striking power seems to do the trick just fine in some cases against metas.

What people in range of class 80-100?

Cap and DD have put down opponents in this range class? That sounds hard to believe. Give me some examples.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
Cap and DD have put down opponents in this range class? That sounds hard to believe. Give me some examples.

Well DD has dropped Mr Hyde with one pressure point not Koed but was gasping for breath. Cap has Koed Namor underwater but he was mindcontrolled.

There are lots of examples of Cap hurting bricks but not Koing them eg beating up Mr Hyde so badly he was on one knee and he was class 50 then.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Are you serious?

Please go to the Batman respect thread and check out his level of accuracy with thrown items. There should be several examples of that (one of my favorites is when he is tailing Superman and Supergirl, who are walking while dressed in civies, and some Amazon lady shoots an arrow at him. Without even looking at it, he whips out a batarang and throws it, without looking, at the oncoming arrow .....which is split by the batarang, and the batarang continues on to hit the bow and crack it in half).

Now, I am not knocking Matt's skills with thrown projectiles .....all I am saying is that the assertion that Bruce is somehow deficient because he doesn't have 'senses' is pure BS.

Bullseye, for example, doesn't have the enhanced senses of DD, yet he is an exceedingly good marksman.

As for the senses arena ....while Bruce doesn't have Matt's level of senses, he is still good enough to dodge sniper rounds (that are fired at him without him knowing) simply by feeling the slight over-pressure in air as the bullet heads towards him. Now, that is something DD does on a regular basis, but for Batman to do it (although several of the Bat-family regularly do such things, e.g. Batgirl) it shows that his senses are not exactly 'normal.'

Anyways, my only reason for being in this thread (which I believe has been tackled before, to far greater length and with attached scans) was because of that 'point' that Bruce is deficient in accuracy.

To be honest, if you had an accuracy competition, and in it you had Batman, Daredevil, Bullseye and Green Arrow (Ollie), you would NOT be able to tell any difference between their accuracy. All of them would be hitting CONSTANT bullseyes. Whether it be shuriken throwing, arrows, javelin throws, or even handguns ....all of them would basically be flawless shots, and would all hit bullseyes, and it would be impossible to tell who was better.

If you went for trickshots differences may start to appear, depending on how hard it is .....but in most cases all would SEEM equal.

The only way differences would appear would be if you made it almost obscenely difficult .....e.g. use a paperclip to hit the left eye of a bird flying past you at 35mph, when it is 50 feet up, and you have to hit it within a window of half a second.

In such a case you'd probably see Bullseye emerge as the winner.

But in all other accuracy competitions, you really would not be able to differentiate between a batarang thrown by Batman, one thrown by Daredevil, and one thrown by Bullseye. All would be 100% on target.

I agree

I'm aware of this. I'd say Batman taking out Grundy twice matches it.



That sounds like bad writing. But then again Batman beating Aquaman (given his durability) shouldn't happen either.



Batman has his fair share as well. I think all elite fighters in comics do.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
I'm aware of this. I'd say Batman taking out Grundy twice matches it.


Yes but the problem is that apparently Solomon Grundy incaranations vary in power.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost

That sounds like bad writing. But then again Batman beating Aquaman (given his durability) shouldn't happen either.

Yeah how about:

Stunning Professor Hulk for 1 second
Hitting Savage Hulk hard enough to let go of him
Winding The Executioneer and putting him on his back who is class 60 and more durable than average Asagardians.
Briefly stunning Namor with a kick and making him land on hic back
etc etc etc.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost


Batman has his fair share as well. I think all elite fighters in comics do.

Captain America has LOADS.

P.S. I have a felling those examples of Batman beating Aquaman and Solmon involved his utlility belt.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I featureless environment I give it to Daredevil 6/10 or even split.

However in this city environment I feel it gives Daredevil a greater advantage so a solid 6/10 maybe 7/10

Your opinion is not a fact.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Your opinion is not a fact.

Did I say it was?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Did I say it was?

Not really, but I just wanted to say that since you told another member the exact same thing.

Hyde's doesn't? I could've sworn he's up and down as well.



Those are great and all but we're talking about Batman vs DD. You can't use Cap's feats for Matt. Different debate all together my friend.



Against Grundy tear gas was used when Grodd (in control of Grundy) attempted to look under Bruce's cowl other then that he used pressure points to KO him once they were left vulnerable. The other time was in Dark Victory where Batman choked him with a rope and punched him into unconsciousness.

Against Aquaman it was a pure hth contest with Batman looking to be the superior.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Not really, but I just wanted to say that since you told another member the exact same thing.

Yes, but he was stating thing as facts when they were not.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
He does not train like an normal guy. If that was the case he would not be man he is today. Batman has nowhere near normal strength. And he is not just good at martial arts, he's a master.There is a lot more to lifting than just raw power. You also need technique. Someone who's smaller and has technique can lift more than someone who is much bigger without any technique. I've seen it many times. I lift weights myself. So I know what I'm talking about. And don't tell me that it's BS, tell DC Comics that.

Anyone who benches 600lbs + is using technique not just raw power. But no one who weighs 210lbs has ever lifted any where near this amount no matter how good their technique. Ed Coan would be the closest and he weighs in at 240lbs. So DC having bats at peak human strength and the flexibility to be a top martial artist and a multi billionaire entrpreneur and a superhero pushes him into the bullsh!t category. I am all for a willing suspension of disbelief on characters like Superman, but Batman is categorically a normal human

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Your opinion is not a fact.

Considering he said "I give" and "I feel", I'm fairly sure he knows that.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Yes, but he was stating thing as facts when they were not.

What he said isn't an official fact, but all evidence points to it being so.

Originally posted by severance
Anyone who benches 600lbs + is using technique not just raw power. But no one who weighs 210lbs has ever lifted any where near this amount no matter how good their technique. Ed Coan would be the closest and he weighs in at 240lbs. So DC having bats at peak human strength and the flexibility to be a top martial artist and a multi billionaire entrpreneur and a superhero pushes him into the bullsh!t category. I am all for a willing suspension of disbelief on characters like Superman, but Batman is categorically a normal human

He is not a "normal" human by any means of the word. You don't seem to understand Batman for one, because if you did, you wouldn't be talking nonsense. Who cares how much you think that it is BS. You can't change or do anything about that. And your opinion is irrelevant. You didn't crate Batman, Bob Kane did. So why should I care that you think it's BS. It is a fact that he is peak human so get over it. And don't complain to me, tell that to DC.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
What he said isn't an official fact, but all evidence points to it being so.
no it does not.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
He is not a "normal" human by any means of the word. You don't seem to understand Batman for one, because if you did, you wouldn't be talking nonsense. Who cares how much you think that it is BS. You can't change or do anything about that. And your opinion is irrelevant. You didn't crate Batman, Bob Kane did. So why should I care that you think it's BS. It is a fact that he is peak human so get over it. And don't complain to me, tell that to DC.



In the DC verse Bats is a normal man. Just like Shang Chi or Punisher etc etc


Yes these three are exceptional but normal none the less ie not enhanced or not true superhuman by there universe category.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
He is not a "normal" human by any means of the word. You don't seem to understand Batman for one, because if you did, you wouldn't be talking nonsense. Who cares how much you think that it is BS. You can't change or do anything about that. And your opinion is irrelevant. You didn't crate Batman, Bob Kane did. So why should I care that you think it's BS. It is a fact that he is peak human so get over it. And don't complain to me, tell that to DC.

What part of what I said was nonsense. I am critiquing the statement that he is peak human. What I do know about batman is that DC claims he is a normal guy. A normal 6'2" 210lb guy cannot at the same time be the strongets normal human in the world and the best martial artist in the world it's just not not possible. I know that this is a comic book but it is a world based roughly along the same lines as ours. Bob Kane certainly didn't make any assertions when he created Batman that he could bench 800lbs. Any claims that he has any where near this level of strength is just bollox unless there a scan anywhere that shows bats benching 800lbs and if there is then I can only conclude somehow inexplicably batman has turned into more than human?? If not then I would guess we have to assume he is pretty damn strong but not peak human like cap. In which case what is to say DD isn't nearly as strong as bats

Originally posted by severance
unless there a scan anywhere that shows bats benching 800lbs

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8469/benchingtonsdb4.jpg

500 pounds is on the weights

Originally posted by Soljer
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8469/benchingtonsdb4.jpg

what's that say on the side of the barbell - that's what you want me to look at right? If i was being generous I would might concede it says 500lbs. I am not being generous it is unclear what it says on theside on the barbell and since barbell plates come in 45lb variety I can't see how it would say 500lbs.

That says 500 lbs, doesn't it?

Originally posted by Etrigan
That says 500 lbs, doesn't it?

Per plate, yes. With a larger plate behind it, and several smaller plates in front.

Conservatively speaking, that much weight would add up to be around twenty five hundred pounds.

Originally posted by Soljer
Per plate, yes. With a larger plate behind it, and several smaller plates in front.

Conservatively speaking, that much weight would add up to be around twenty five hundred pounds.

Yup.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To be fair Batman does not always show senses on that level and I think Bullseyes would really come out on top with accuracy.

Again, read my post.

There is a part I say that Bullseye would emerge tops in accuracy, BUT ONLY in OBSCENELY DIFFICULT targeting situations (as in, situations that are even stupid for comic books).

In all other 'normal' situations, you would NOT be able to tell the difference between Batman, Bullseye, Daredevil and Green Arrow (you can add any number of other characters here, e.g Deadshot, Hawkeye, etc). All are PERFECT shots, and will hit CONSTANT dead-eye aims.

Constantly.

It is like you trying to judge a 100m footrace between Superman, Mr. Majestic, Martian Manhunter, WonderWoman, and the Flash. While to comicbook readers it is known that the Flash is the fastest, to an observer all would seem to be the same speed. There would be no difference in time ......the only way to see a difference would be to have them race across the Galaxy, in which case you'd notice that the Flash is faster.

In terms of accuracy, there is no difference between Batman, Daredevil, Bullseye and any number of other sharp-shooters out there. None whatsoever. All of them are perfect (absolutely perfect) shots.

Only when you make it ridiculous do differences emerge.

And, to get back on target, what you had said about Batman being at a disadvantage was so totally wrong.

Originally posted by Soljer
Per plate, yes. With a larger plate behind it, and several smaller plates in front.

Conservatively speaking, that much weight would add up to be around twenty five hundred pounds.

Yeah you are right i never even thought of all the other plates, Nice pwnage there soljer

Originally posted by ScarletSpeed
Yeah you are right i never even thought of all the other plates, Nice pwnage there soljer

Hey, your current post count is 616.

Awesome. .

The reason DD has the edge here is because of his radar sense. He can sense heart beat changes, nerve impulses, etc. This makes him know what you are going to do before you do it (somewhat like a Spider-sense).

Also, the amount of styles one knows doesn't make them a better fighter. If one has mastered a style that is superior to all other styles then he/she is a better fighter than the one who has mastered
all the inferior styles. I believe, IMO, the DD's style is equal to or superior to any and all the styles Batman has mastered.

Lastly, these two have peak human feats so thus we can say that they are about even in physicality (DD might be slightly more agile though) so let's assume even here.

But giving Batman the benefit of the doubt, let's say that he is a slightly better fighter than DD. DD's radar sense, which is a larger advantage than batman's slightly better fighting, tips the scales in favor of DD.

Wouldn't him benching 2500 pounds be considered an outliner since it is so far above what he is usually shown at?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Wouldn't him benching 2500 pounds be considered an outliner since it is so far above what he is usually shown at?

Post some scans of him struggling with less weight on a bench press.

.

Originally posted by Soljer
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8469/benchingtonsdb4.jpg

Good shit, Soljer. I don't think severance would have anything else to say about Batman's strength.

Originally posted by Soljer
Post some scans of him struggling with less weight on a bench press.

.

That's what I thought, one example is enough when it's a character you like.

Originally posted by Silent Master
That's what I thought, one example is enough when it's a character you like.

I'm fairly indifferent when it comes to Batman.

Still, I don't see how it's above what he's ever been shown capable of if he's never failed at a lower weight, .

Originally posted by spetznaz
Again, read my post.

There is a part I say that Bullseye would emerge tops in accuracy, BUT ONLY in OBSCENELY DIFFICULT targeting situations (as in, situations that are even stupid for comic books).

In all other 'normal' situations, you would NOT be able to tell the difference between Batman, Bullseye, Daredevil and Green Arrow (you can add any number of other characters here, e.g Deadshot, Hawkeye, etc). All are PERFECT shots, and will hit CONSTANT dead-eye aims.

Constantly.

Yeah and?

Originally posted by spetznaz

It is like you trying to judge a 100m footrace between Superman, Mr. Majestic, Martian Manhunter, WonderWoman, and the Flash. While to comicbook readers it is known that the Flash is the fastest, to an observer all would seem to be the same speed. There would be no difference in time ......the only way to see a difference would be to have them race across the Galaxy, in which case you'd notice that the Flash is faster.

In terms of accuracy, there is no difference between Batman, Daredevil, Bullseye and any number of other sharp-shooters out there. None whatsoever. All of them are perfect (absolutely perfect) shots.

Only when you make it ridiculous do differences emerge.


You could be right there, but I still would have expected Bullseye to be slightly better.

Originally posted by spetznaz

And, to get back on target, what you had said about Batman being at a disadvantage was so totally wrong.

I cant remember exactly what I said.

batman would give DD the thrashing of his life and then ask him if hes still the man without fear

This hasn't stopped Iron Fist, Taskmaster, or even Punisher and Bullseye (sometimes) from giving him serious trouble in hth combat.





I believe that DD's senses make him equal to Bruce if anything. Matt without his senses isn't as formidable as he normally is which puts him on an equal footing with Bruce and other elite MAs IMO. It's pretty clear Matt built his fighting style around his super senses to be a more effective fighter which has worked very well for him obviously.



I agree mostly. I don't think either one has a huge advantage over the other in a physical contest. If there is a difference somewhere its a small one that won't matter much.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Maybe he got stronger

I'd like to see you prove it without using the above scan, otherwise that would seem to indicate that it was indeed a one off feat.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Good shit, Soljer. I don't think severance would have anything else to say about Batman's strength.

a) As I said I don't think it is very clear what it says on the plate.
b) If it is 500lbs per plate then what the fnck are they made of? That is 11 times as dense as steel 4 or 5 times as dense as uranium and at that atomic weight (which is pretty physically inconcievable) the radioactivity would be lethal. Actually most of the really high atomic numbers only exist for fractions of a second
c) 2500lbs is probably more than a gorilla can press so are we saying peak human is above a gorilla?
d) If you wish to say that it says 500lbs the only reasonable conclusion is that the 500lb somehow represents the whole bar (artistic license). 500lbs is a good bench no doubt but not peak strength.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'd like to see you prove it without using the above scan, otherwise that would seem to indicate that it was indeed a one off feat.

Doesn't matter, you can't look at something and act like it didn't happen. What more do you want?

Originally posted by severance
a) As I said I don't think it is very clear what it says on the plate.
b) If it is 500lbs per plate then what the fnck are they made of? That is 11 times as dense as steel 4 or 5 times as dense as uranium and at that atomic weight (which is pretty physically inconcievable) the radioactivity would be lethal. Actually most of the really high atomic numbers only exist for fractions of a second
c) 2500lbs is probably more than a gorilla can press so are we saying peak human is above a gorilla?
d) If you wish to say that it says 500lbs the only reasonable conclusion is that the 500lb somehow represents the whole bar (artistic license). 500lbs is a good bench no doubt but not peak strength.

Just let it go. DD is not stronger. Why don't you post something that proves other wise.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Just let it go. DD is not stronger. Why don't you post something that proves other wise.

using 400Lbs like a staff. Tipping over a limo with three people in it. Opening Kingpins safe which Spiderman had to struggle to do, not saying hes as strong as Spiderman but I would put DDs maximum at 1 ton in general.

In general though Batmsn strength feats seem similar to DDs.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Just let it go. DD is not stronger. Why don't you post something that proves other wise.

No you are right I don't think DD is stronger bats may have the edge (as he is slightly bigger). Difference is not enough to make up for the fact that DD has superhuman senses and concomitantly fast reflexes

Originally posted by Soljer
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8469/benchingtonsdb4.jpg

Two things.
1. It isn't clear how much batman is lifting here. The last 0 isn't a clear 0.
So the plate could be 50lbs. Also, the last character is clearly not an S (required to be "lbs".

2. If indeed this isn't a doctored scan that has 500lbs on it then it was the writer's intention that batman was benching a total of 500lbs. The scan was clearly a mistake (happens sometimes).

Originally posted by thadarknite84
Doesn't matter, you can't look at something and act like it didn't happen. What more do you want?

I'm not saying people can't use it, I just want to be clear on whether one off feats can be used.

Originally posted by h1a8
The reason DD has the edge here is because of his radar sense. He can sense heart beat changes, nerve impulses, etc. This makes him know what you are going to do before you do it (somewhat like a Spider-sense).

Also, the amount of styles one knows doesn't make them a better fighter. If one has mastered a style that is superior to all other styles then he/she is a better fighter than the one who has mastered
all the inferior styles. I believe, IMO, the DD's style is equal to or superior to any and all the styles Batman has mastered.

Lastly, these two have peak human feats so thus we can say that they are about even in physicality (DD might be slightly more agile though) so let's assume even here.

But giving Batman the benefit of the doubt, let's say that he is a slightly better fighter than DD. DD's radar sense, which is a larger advantage than batman's slightly better fighting, tips the scales in favor of DD.

And because the bat is a ***** but I mean dd would win

phantom zone I doubt DD can lift a ton don't try and ruin a good character - he is great because he is street level

h1a8 you are spot on

Originally posted by severance
phantom zone I doubt DD can lift a ton don't try and ruin a good character - he is great because he is street level




Ok do me a favour. Read what I said and process the information...ok?

Originally posted by h1a8
Two things.
1. It isn't clear how much batman is lifting here. The last 0 isn't a clear 0.
So the plate could be 50lbs. Also, the last character is clearly not an S (required to be "lbs".

2. If indeed this isn't a doctored scan that has 500lbs on it then it was the writer's intention that batman was benching a total of 500lbs. The scan was clearly a mistake (happens sometimes).

"I don't like it, it didn't happen" seems to be your main debate tactic. Here, the Surfer thread, where else?

Originally posted by Soljer
"I don't like it, it didn't happen" seems to be your main debate tactic. Here, the Surfer thread, where else?

Honestly, if the scan clearly showed 500lbs then I wouldn't have listed number 1. Number 2 stands; I feel the writer's intention (I have a gift for that thing).

Originally posted by h1a8
Honestly, if the scan clearly showed 500lbs then I wouldn't have listed number 1. Number 2 stands; I feel the writer's intention (I have a gift for that thing).

.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost


A little biased here are we?Nope NW's my fave character from DC & I don't like Slade all that much.
Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
It's a proven fact that Batman and NW have done quite well against Slade whether you like it or not.
I already know that. That's how the discussion of PIS started Jeez, Where's Long Pig when you need him?

DD for a slight majority. 6/10.

I wouldnt even be surprised if it were a 5/5 split.

Strength - Doesnt play a factor here at all imo. None.

Variety of styles known - Also doesnt play a factor here imo. How many styles can we say Bats uses on a regular basis? This fight would be alot of defending and countering. I dont see it going any other way.

Speed and agility- I think DD has a nice advantage over Bats here. I 100% believe that DD would be harder to hit than the other way around. Plus les remember the environment. DD being faster and more agile can cause problems.

I wont count DD's radar cause everyone here knows that just gives him a bit more of an advantage to what he may already have.

I would be a lovely fight to see......... Again.......In full length.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
no it does not.

Why do you say that?

Originally posted by brainchild81
Nope NW's my fave character from DC & I don't like Slade all that much.
I already know that. That's how the discussion of PIS started Jeez, Where's Long Pig when you need him?

Judging by the fact that you said that Batman and NW shouldn't be able to defeat Slade, you certainly had me fooled .

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Why do you say that?
becuases he was wrong over and over again.


He also a hypocrit.

Could go either way, really.

Daredevil has radar sense and slightly better agility. Batman has the advantage in durability thanks to his armor which not even an Omac could cut (everybody seems to overlook this little facet) and better striking power. I also think he's the better fighter of the two, not to mention the better tactician.

Meh, Batman 5-5.5/10.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok do me a favour. Read what I said and process the information...ok?

I did read it but I would need to see scans. People on KMC have a habit of interpretting scans in an odd way that is unrealistic and often biased. Face facts DD is an ordinary guy with training he can't lift a ton, no one on our earth can so why should he be able to

Originally posted by severance
I did read it but I would need to see scans. People on KMC have a habit of interpretting scans in an odd way that is unrealistic and often biased. Face facts DD is an ordinary guy with training he can't lift a ton, no one on our earth can so why should he be able to
Because DD doesn't routinely do things an ordinary guy in our world can't, amirite?

No I think what he means is that he is "normal" in strength, in which I agree batman has him outmatched in power, plus bats is a far better allround fighter, he basically knows 127 different Martial Arts and I probably am mistaken but isn't he a master in a few of them?

Although both characters are listed as normal stat wise, they both have done things that say enhanced or peak human.

Originally posted by severance
I did read it but I would need to see scans. People on KMC have a habit of interpretting scans in an odd way that is unrealistic and often biased. Face facts DD is an ordinary guy with training he can't lift a ton, no one on our earth can so why should he be able to

You can't apply our world's rules and boundaries with comics. Just like in cartoons, a man or a duck could get crushed by a huge rock and not get killed.

Personally i think Daredevil is stronger and more agile but Batman is the smarter and better fighter thats why he wins a slight majority to me.