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Dormammu has invaded Earth and is trying to take over, but Tyrant has just arrived. Tyrant wants the Earth to feed upon its biosphere energy. Tyrant sees Dormammu and they start to wage an all out war against each other. Mephisto sees whats going on and decides to join the battle.


It's a battle to the finish. Who wins?

Dormammu or Tyrant, i'm not sure... but Mephisto loses every time.

I've figured that Mephisto would go down first since he is a jobber. If I'm not mistaken, Mephisto got handed by The Hulk during one of their meetings.

As for Tyrant and Dormammu, this would be a good battle. Dormammu has strength that surpasses that of a slightly enraged Hulk, but his magic makes up more up to it.


But I have a question, wouldn't Dormammu be a little weaker outside his dimension? Would that give him a disadvantage?

In a head up hand to hand battle, i see Tyrant overpowering Dormammu, but with magic, this could be another story.

Um I don't think Dormammu's power is dependant on his realm, after all the realm wasn't even his, he annexed it. Both Dormammu and Tyrant are above Skyfather, but this is really a toss-up. I'd give the slight edge to Dormammu though since he is more versatile. BTW, where do you get that Dormammu has Hulk level strength. He's been defeated hand to hand by DR. STRANGE of all people, not exactly a class 100, lol.

Yeah Dormammu did get bested by Dr. Strange in hand to hand combat. But I think no powers were involved during their fight.

As for Dormammu having strength comparable to enraged Hulk, I believe it was from a Defenders comic. Hulk and Dormammu actually fought. I've never actually read the comic, but I read a statement. I think it was Wikipedia .

The battle between Tyrant and Dormammu can go either way. So I'm not sure.

Well yeah they didn't use magic, but if Dormammu is naturally Hulk strength then he couldn't have turned it off.

I can see Dormammu winning by getting the Mindless ones to fight for him (maybe BFR?)

Lol that would be a good tactic, but wouldn't Tyrant use his drones as backup as well? Unless his drones wouldn't be a match against the mindless ones.

The Mindless ones are like living Destroyer Armors.

in hell, mephisto kicks both their asses. outside of hell, he'd lose first and tyrant would be the one left standing if this is standard dormammu.

Mephisto loses even in his own realm, Mephisto in his realm is still just a Skyfather. Dorammu on the other end has given Eternity a fight that made Eternity dormant for two months.

Dormammu is actually much stronger than Mephisto. They had a battle and Dormammu beat him.

Speaking of Dormammu, I believe he took out the combine forces of the Avengers and Defenders when they invaded the Dark Dimension. This was from the Avengers/Defenders War.

As for Mephisto fighting Tyant in his own realm, didn't Galactus fight Mephisto in his realm and won? I read somewhere that Galactus absorbed Mephisto's realm. So wouldn't Tyrant do the same?

tyrant has never been shown to be able to absorb energy for sustence in the way galactus can. dormammu is AT BEST a relative equal to odin. they were said to be 2 sides of a coin, though odin's feats FAR surpass domammu's without prep or plot device. dormmy was OBLITERATED and his essence scattered across spacetime when he challenged eternity the first time -- AND he was amped. the second time, was pure PIS -- all the stars were aligned, cosmic axis had shifted, yada-yada. AND the whole series was a complete joke/romp by giffen and should never be referenced in any serious discussion.

mephisto stalemated an angry galactus in hell. the only way g was able to escape was by threatening to absorb hell. power-wise, he was equal to galactus. dormmy is nowhere close to that without prep/PIS. tyrant needed FULL power to challenge galactus -- and STILL lost.

based on everything i've seen and read of these characters, in hell mephisto owns these 2. out of hell, tyrant takes it if dormmy is at standard levels. you can convince me otherwise, pc, if you can produce scans of dormammu beating mephisto -- in hell -- sans plot device, or tell me where the battle you are referencing happened.

Dorm wasnt atmped the first time. not that it matters dorms already beaten mephisto in his own realm.

Originally posted by leonidas
dormmy was OBLITERATED and his essence scattered across spacetime when he challenged eternity the first time -- AND he was amped.
False, Dormammu was perfectly fine, just BFRed into the shadow dimension (or whatever it was called.) And he was not amped at all, that is pure falsehood. In fact if you want to play that game, Eternity actually came out of the deal worse then Dormammu...

Originally posted by leonidas

AND he was amped. the second time, was pure PIS --
all the stars were aligned, cosmic axis had shifted, yada-yada.
That's actually a legitimate moment of pis, it's not the first time it happens in Marvel.
Originally posted by leonidas

AND the whole series was a complete joke/romp by giffen
and should never be referenced in any serious discussion.

100% Canon though:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5000/dormyqy7.th.jpg
(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook 2006 - Eternity - bio)

Well remember that the editor himself stated it was pure bullshit on-panel. On-panel>Bio.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Well remember that the editor himself stated it was pure bullshit on-panel. On-panel>Bio.
Really, when the editor make that claim?

The editors made fun of the writing styles of Giffen & co.,
but never was it stated that the issue itself was non-canon,
or anything that alludes to it being dismissed from it ever happening.

So, indeed, it did happen, and Eternity's bio clarifies this,
and Umar's 2006 bio also confirms this as canon:

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1311/umardq7.th.jpg

On Panel artistic depictions + Handbook (3 of them) corroborations = 100% Canon!

^ yeah, just read all of mine here it's true.

Originally posted by leonidas

based on everything i've seen and read of these characters, in hell mephisto owns these 2. out of hell, tyrant takes it if dormmy is at standard levels. you can convince me otherwise, pc, if you can produce scans of dormammu beating mephisto -- in hell -- sans plot device, or tell me where the battle you are referencing happened.

I wish I could post the scans, but I don't have the comic. I'm not sure, but the fight between Dormammu and Mephisto should be mentioned in Hellcat #1-3 2000.

Originally posted by leonidas
tyrant has never been shown to be able to absorb energy for sustence in the way galactus can. dormammu is AT BEST a relative equal to odin. they were said to be 2 sides of a coin, though odin's feats FAR surpass domammu's without prep or plot device. dormmy was OBLITERATED and his essence scattered across spacetime when he challenged eternity the first time -- AND he was amped. the second time, was pure PIS -- all the stars were aligned, cosmic axis had shifted, yada-yada. AND the whole series was a complete joke/romp by giffen and should never be referenced in any serious discussion.

mephisto stalemated an angry galactus in hell. the only way g was able to escape was by threatening to absorb hell. power-wise, he was equal to galactus. dormmy is nowhere close to that without prep/PIS. tyrant needed FULL power to challenge galactus -- and STILL lost.

based on everything i've seen and read of these characters, in hell mephisto owns these 2. out of hell, tyrant takes it if dormmy is at standard levels. you can convince me otherwise, pc, if you can produce scans of dormammu beating mephisto -- in hell -- sans plot device, or tell me where the battle you are referencing happened.

QFT

Originally posted by leonidas
mephisto stalemated an angry galactus in hell. the only way g was able to escape was by threatening to absorb hell. power-wise, he was equal to galactus. dormmy is nowhere close to that without prep/PIS. tyrant needed FULL power to challenge galactus -- and STILL lost.


Galactus wasn't angry when he fought Mephisto in hell, He arrived to reclaim his property (Nova) Mephisto refused accepting and they battled Galactus stopped attacking because the SS pleaded of him to do so, It even says that Galactus doesn't pay any attention to the carnage around him (most likely unleashed by Mephisto) He then begins absorbing Mephistos Dimension, Not because he needed to do so in order to escape but because the Surfer (acting as Narrator) asked/pleaded of him to do so.

I found the fight

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Next.

I know everyone likes to bring this fight up, and well....here it is.

Galactus beating Mephesto in his own realm.
1. http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3055/ssjd528cx.jpg
2. http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7980/ssjd537rq.jpg
3. http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5105/ssjd545jv.jpg
4. http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5108/ssjd552bj.jpg
5. http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3257/ssjd566zs.jpg
6. http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/8522/ssjd573qq.jpg
7. http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4230/ssjd585gn.jpg
8. http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7769/ssjd596qq.jpg
9. http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4460/ssjd602nf.jpg
10. http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1284/ssjd617ye.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
tyrant has never been shown to be able to absorb energy for sustence in the way galactus can.

It's a fact that Tyrant absorbs the biospheric energy from planets. Every planet that Galactus consumed made Tyrant scream out in pain. This happened right before their second confrontation.

didn't Galactus only absorb one? And it was rage not pain that made Tyrant screame out because it left a planet overall left for him to use.

Originally posted by King Kandy
False, Dormammu was perfectly fine, just BFRed into the shadow dimension (or whatever it was called.) And he was not amped at all, that is pure falsehood. In fact if you want to play that game, Eternity actually came out of the deal worse then Dormammu...

you're wrong. initially when written eternity DESTROYED dormmy.

http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strangetalesv114621s209dl3.jpg

it wasn't til 2 or 3 years later that some writer revived him. and regardless -- your initial posit that dormmy was eternity level is utterly ridiculous. eternity CERTAINLY never came out the worse of the two! but you were at least right on one point -- he wasn't amped. too bad for him . . .

my point stands -- he was OBLITERATED by eternity and needed PIS to do what he did in that silly mini-series.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's actually a legitimate moment of pis, it's not the first time it happens in Marvel.

100% Canon though:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5000/dormyqy7.th.jpg
(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook 2006 - Eternity - bio)

i never once said it wasn't canon -- only that it was ridiculous and should never be brought up in serious discussion.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Galactus wasn't angry when he fought Mephisto in hell, He arrived to reclaim his property (Nova) Mephisto refused accepting and they battled Galactus stopped attacking because the SS pleaded of him to do so, It even says that Galactus doesn't pay any attention to the carnage around him (most likely unleashed by Mephisto) He then begins absorbing Mephistos Dimension, Not because he needed to do so in order to escape but because the Surfer (acting as Narrator) asked/pleaded of him to do so.

I found the fight



so you think he was HAPPY mephisto didn't want to give back ss or nova?? and he was 'not angry' when he screamed "SO SPEAKS GALACTUS!"

i'm sure he was thrilled he have his will questioned . . .

Originally posted by Sundipped
It's a fact that Tyrant absorbs the biospheric energy from planets. Every planet that Galactus consumed made Tyrant scream out in pain. This happened right before their second confrontation.

sweet. then you can show him devouring a planet ala galactus and getting stronger then, right? i don't think he was in pain, but rather po'd . . .

Originally posted by PowerCosmic
I wish I could post the scans, but I don't have the comic. I'm not sure, but the fight between Dormammu and Mephisto should be mentioned in Hellcat #1-3 2000.

may as well deal with all the 'facts' that have been strewn about this thread at once . . .

dorrmy NEVER battled mephisto in that mini. his army invaded hell and while the battle was going on satannish betrayed mephisto, and attacked him from behind. dormmy and satannish then trapped mephisto. later, mephisto, hela pluto and hellstrom 'froze' hell. this negated dormmy's powers because somehow he apparently needed the 'flames in hell' as a power source! once hell froze, dormmy and satannish high-tailed it out of there.

in your defense there were some allusions to dormmy's maybe being more powerful because he ruled ONE realm, while the devils split one, but mephisto was itching for a fight and dormmy used satannish to attack him rather than confronting him directly. dormmy was also careful not to invade hell until he was sure mephisto wouldn't know. mephisto was also shown as being quite confident that he could defeat dormammu in hell, but . . . who knows. in the end, they never touched each other.

i'll concede you that mephisto wouldn't 'own' him like i initially said, based on that series -- though it was very poorly written, obviously. in hell, it would be a close battle with a slight edge perhaps going to dormmy. in a better written book it's hard to say though.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're wrong. initially when written eternity DESTROYED dormmy.

http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strangetalesv114621s209dl3.jpg

it wasn't til 2 or 3 years later that some writer revived him. and regardless -- your initial posit that dormmy was eternity level is utterly ridiculous. eternity CERTAINLY never came out the worse of the two! but you were at least right on one point -- he wasn't amped. too bad for him . . .

my point stands -- he was OBLITERATED by eternity and needed PIS to do what he did in that silly mini-series.
He wasn't obliterated. It was retconned later so he only got sent to the shadow dimension. He was revealed to be alive and fine, just in a different dimension. No worse for wear. He didn't come back to life, it was simply revealed that he'd never died in the first place. Eternity on the other hand was unconscious for two months. Dormammu just got sent to another dimension. Which one sounds worse?

Originally posted by King Kandy
He wasn't obliterated. It was retconned later so he only got sent to the shadow dimension. He was revealed to be alive and fine, just in a different dimension. No worse for wear. He didn't come back to life, it was simply revealed that he'd never died in the first place. Eternity on the other hand was unconscious for two months. Dormammu just got sent to another dimension. Which one sounds worse?

obviously it was retconned. doesn't change what initially happened or more importantly the broad picture:

eternity>>>>>>>>>>>>>dormammu.

but where are you getting that eternity was unconscious for 2 months??

Originally posted by leonidas
may as well deal with all the 'facts' that have been strewn about this thread at once . . .

dorrmy NEVER battled mephisto in that mini. his army invaded hell and while the battle was going on satannish betrayed mephisto, and attacked him from behind. dormmy and satannish then trapped mephisto. later, mephisto, hela pluto and hellstrom 'froze' hell. this negated dormmy's powers because somehow he apparently needed the 'flames in hell' as a power source! once hell froze, dormmy and satannish high-tailed it out of there.

in your defense there were some allusions to dormmy's maybe being more powerful because he ruled ONE realm, while the devils split one, but mephisto was itching for a fight and dormmy used satannish to attack him rather than confronting him directly. dormmy was also careful not to invade hell until he was sure mephisto wouldn't know. mephisto was also shown as being quite confident that he could defeat dormammu in hell, but . . . who knows. in the end, they never touched each other.

i'll concede you that mephisto wouldn't 'own' him like i initially said, based on that series -- though it was very poorly written, obviously. in hell, it would be a close battle with a slight edge perhaps going to dormmy. in a better written book it's hard to say though.

Hey thanks for the information. . I wish I had the comic though. The battle between Dormammu and Mephisto in hell would be a good battle too. Not sure who would win, but I'll place my money on Dormammu with a 6.5/10 chance of winning.

This brings me other questions. Did Odin fight Mephisto? If so, who won? How many times did they battle? (To see who's superior) I say this because Dormammu and Odin should be equal in strength (stalemated in Chess)

Originally posted by PowerCosmic
Hey thanks for the information. . I wish I had the comic though. The battle between Dormammu and Mephisto in hell would be a good battle too. Not sure who would win, but I'll place my money on Dormammu with a 6.5/10 chance of winning. dorm beat mephisto and sattanish in mephistos realm in the hellcat mini-series.

Originally posted by Lumby
dorm beat mephisto and sattanish in mephistos realm in the hellcat mini-series.

So Dormmy did fight Mephisto and beat him. Interesting Dormammu is a very ambitious person.

Originally posted by leonidas


so you think he was HAPPY mephisto didn't want to give back ss or nova?? and he was 'not angry' when he screamed "SO SPEAKS GALACTUS!"

i'm sure he was thrilled he have his will questioned . . .


I take you have never seen Galactus angry. Annihilation #6 now that was a angry and very I might add Galactus.

This one was if anything annoyed, first by having his Herald stolen and then by Mephisto thinking that he could keep Nova.

because Feelings generally is beyond Galactus, Look when Tyrant toke Morg and Galactus came to retrieve him he looks pretty calm to me

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Tyrant/?action=view&current=SilverSurferv3082_36.jpg

Originally posted by Utrigita
I take you have never seen Galactus angry. Annihilation #6 now that was a angry and very I might add Galactus.

This one was if anything annoyed, first by having his Herald stolen and then by Mephisto thinking that he could keep Nova.

because Feelings generally is beyond Galactus, Look when Tyrant toke Morg and Galactus came to retrieve him he looks pretty calm to me

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Tyrant/?action=view&current=SilverSurferv3082_36.jpg

g often 'claims' to be beyond feelings/emotions, and yet succumbs to them often. he's shown caring for ss, anger, desire. he clearly is not beyond them. beyond that, i'll not argue semantics with you. he seemed pretty po'd at mephisto to me. not annihilation angry, but po'd nonetheless. interpret how you wish.

Originally posted by Lumby
dorm beat mephisto and sattanish in mephistos realm in the hellcat mini-series.

doh

not in any kind of personal combat he didn't. he DID take control over hell by turning satannish against mephisto. the attack that took out mephisto was a back attack from satannish that mephisto never saw. mephisto got wind that d was gonna attack hell so he joined his army with satannish's army. as the armies battled and satannish took out mephisto. it was later revealed that satannish was somehow created by dormammu for specifically this purpose of attacking mephisto at an opportune moment.

like i said, later, the other devils simply extinguished the flames in hell and d had to run home. that of course is ridiculous. the flames as power source is REALLY ridiculous, and the fact that mephisto needed help to freeze hell is EQUALLY dumb. he has complete control of hell and could have extinguished the fires at anytime, deprived d of power then killed him. that's why i said a well written battle could be very different. i still think it's a close battle if you throw out the nonsense about the flames . . .

anyway pc, thanks for bringing the series and events to my attention. i'd not heard about or read them before. i always like learning new things in the forum.

Originally posted by leonidas
g often 'claims' to be beyond feelings/emotions, and yet succumbs to them often. he's shown caring for ss, anger, desire. he clearly is not beyond them. beyond that, i'll not argue semantics with you. he seemed pretty po'd at mephisto to me. not annihilation angry, but po'd nonetheless. interpret how you wish.

Desire for SS eerk, and If he does so often against his own Heralds that had made a habit out of betraying him well... what exactly does po'd means???

Originally posted by leonidas

anyway pc, thanks for bringing the series and events to my attention. i'd not heard about or read them before. i always like learning new things in the forum.

Your welcome Leonidas . You know alot more than I do lol . I'm still new to the Marvel/DC Universe .

We have a tough battle between Dormammu and Mephisto. Add in Tyrant, and it becomes a great cosmic battle.

Not too sure who win this great battle now lol .

Honestly in this battle I have to give it to Dormammu!

B/c not only is he the ruler of a realm, but he actually can and has annexed other realm(s). As well as Challenge Eternity which is a HUGE feat in and of itself. Which I believe took place outside of his Dark Dimension.

Whereas Mephisto was Sufficiently rivaled w/in his own realm by Galactus, when he SHOULD be all powerful there.

Depowered Tyrant seems more capable an opponent then Mephisto, seeing as Galactus openly challenged Mephisto in order to retrieve his Herald(s) (Nova & SS) while he was Hesitant to engage Tyrant in order to get back his herald Morg.

Originally posted by leonidas

i never once said it wasn't canon --
only that it was ridiculous and should never be brought up in serious discussion.
Cool. But it will be brought up in serious discussions because it's canon.

Eternity has been vulnerable before during another "Cosmic Axis Shift"
so again, it is a legitimate moment of "pis."

Dormy combined his powers with Umar btw,
which apparently boosted both their powers beyond what they are as individuals side by side.
Were they Eternity level combined? Nah, but the "Cosmic Shift" put them over the top.

I agree, without the Cosmic Shift, the feat would've been impossible,
but with the Cosmic Shift and Dormy/Umar combining powers,
they are more powerful than Eternity's totality (Multiverse)
as depicted on panel and corroborated in 3 separate official Marvel Handbooks.

That's a serious 100% canon fact.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool. But it will be brought up in serious discussions because it's canon.

Eternity has been vulnerable before during another "Cosmic Axis Shift"
so again, it is a legitimate moment of "pis."

Dormy combined his powers with Umar btw,
which apparently boosted both their powers beyond what they are as individuals side by side.
Were they Eternity level combined? Nah, but the "Cosmic Shift" put them over the top.

I agree, without the Cosmic Shift, the feat would've been impossible,
but with the Cosmic Shift and Dormy/Umar combining powers,
they are more powerful than Eternity's totality (Multiverse)
as depicted on panel and corroborated in 3 separate official Marvel Handbooks.

That's a serious 100% canon fact.

spidey vs firelord is ALSO canon.

Originally posted by Mr Marvel
Honestly in this battle I have to give it to Dormammu!

B/c not only is he the ruler of a realm, but he actually can and has annexed other realm(s). As well as Challenge Eternity which is a HUGE feat in and of itself. Which I believe took place outside of his Dark Dimension.

Whereas Mephisto was Sufficiently rivaled w/in his own realm by Galactus, when he SHOULD be all powerful there.

Depowered Tyrant seems more capable an opponent then Mephisto, seeing as Galactus openly challenged Mephisto in order to retrieve his Herald(s) (Nova & SS) while he was Hesitant to engage Tyrant in order to get back his herald Morg.

i tend to agree more now than i did at the start of the thread. problem is that d is not CONSISTENTLY shown at those levels.

anyway, cool thread.

edit

Originally posted by leonidas
spidey vs firelord is ALSO canon.
This is inconsequential and irrelevant,
bad comparison friend.

Spidey and Firelord is ridiculous pis,
because there was NO stipulation for Spidey winning.

Unlike the Dormy/Umar case where there was a legitimate stipulation.

Last time, then ... as you wish.

In Marvel's cosmology,
there is an event that seldom takes place where the Multiversal Axes,
aligns in such a way that it empowers certain beings to Multiversal levels.

In Dormy/Umar's case they had to combine their powers in conjunction with the alignment.

Here is ANOTHER case though where again, a pathetic being becomes Multiversal,
in fact, the full power of the Multiverse was in his hands during the Alignment:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8797/axisfo3.th.jpg



I have two more cases (keeping scans to a minimum nowadays)
but this should clarify my point.

Originally posted by Mr Marvel
Honestly in this battle I have to give it to Dormammu!

B/c not only is he the ruler of a realm, but he actually can and has annexed other realm(s). As well as Challenge Eternity which is a HUGE feat in and of itself. Which I believe took place outside of his Dark Dimension.

Whereas Mephisto was Sufficiently rivaled w/in his own realm by Galactus, when he SHOULD be all powerful there.

Depowered Tyrant seems more capable an opponent then Mephisto, seeing as Galactus openly challenged Mephisto in order to retrieve his Herald(s) (Nova & SS) while he was Hesitant to engage Tyrant in order to get back his herald Morg.

Dormammu is one person not to mess with, especially at his realm. He took out the Avengers and Defenders during the Avengers/Defenders war. Dormmy reverted Thor back to Donald Blake and Iron man back to Tony Starks with a wave of his hand.

Tyrant is also a monster. He took out Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Terrax, Beta Ray Bill, Morg, Jack of Hearts and Ganymede all by himself. Also, not to mention battling whooping Thanos tale in a battle.

I'm not too sure who win between Dormammu and Tyrant. Tyrant is sick in combat, but Dormammu has shown to be capable in hand to hand combat since he battled an enraged Hulk and won. I wonder if Dormammmu's magic would benefit against Tyrant.

Originally posted by PowerCosmic


Tyrant is also a monster. He took out Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Terrax, Beta Ray Bill, Morg, Jack of Hearts and Ganymede all by himself. Also, not to mention whooping Thanos tale in a battle.



Sorry for my bad english.

you seem to think i'm arguing the canonicity of the arc. i'm not. but not all your references change the fact that the series was ridiculous in the extreme. MORE ridiculous or at least contrived even than spidey v firelord. in that sense -- the sheer silliness of both cases -- the analogy fits perfectly.

i'm not debating this issue though. please, feel free to reference it as often as you wish. just as i'll feel free to say it was a joke arc that should NEVER be referenced in any real discussion.

Originally posted by leonidas
obviously it was retconned. doesn't change what initially happened or more importantly the broad picture:

eternity>>>>>>>>>>>>>dormammu.

but where are you getting that eternity was unconscious for 2 months??
Well if the retcon doesn't matter then I guess Beyonder is still at classic levels, huh? No, Dormammu was NEVER destroyed. Everyone THOUGHT he was but as revealed later he was PERFECTLY FINE. Why you are clinging to the old retconned non-canon explanation is beyond me.

Anyway Eternity was dormant until Juggernaut and Nightmare set him free by accident, and then he said he was in bonds for two months... so yeah.

Originally posted by leonidas

you seem to think i'm arguing the canonicity of the arc. i'm not. but not all your references change the fact that the series was ridiculous in the extreme. MORE ridiculous or at least contrived even than spidey v firelord. in that sense -- the sheer silliness of both cases -- the analogy fits perfectly.

i'm not debating this issue though. please, feel free to reference it as often as you wish. just as i'll feel free to say it was a joke arc that should NEVER be referenced in any real discussion.
Originally posted by Mr Master

This is inconsequential and irrelevant,
bad comparison friend.

Spidey and Firelord is ridiculous pis,
because there was NO stipulation for Spidey winning.

Unlike the Dormy/Umar case where there was a legitimate stipulation.

Last time, then ... as you wish.

In Marvel's cosmology,
there is an event that seldom takes place where the Multiversal Axes,
aligns in such a way that it empowers certain beings to Multiversal levels.

In Dormy/Umar's case they had to combine their powers in conjunction with the alignment.

Here is ANOTHER case though where again, a pathetic being becomes Multiversal,
in fact, the full power of the Multiverse was in his hands during the Alignment:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8797/axisfo3.th.jpg



I have two more cases (keeping scans to a minimum nowadays)
but this should clarify my point.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Well if the retcon doesn't matter then I guess Beyonder is still at classic levels, huh?

Dormammu's power fluctuates in comics. Sometimes Dormammu can seem as a powerful threat, other times he is just a jobber. For example, Dormammu fighting Eternity is a feat in itself, since he did not fear Eternity or use any kind mechanism to fight him. Other times, Dormammu would lose badly, especially to Dr. Strange, who is less powerful than Dormammu (Dormammu lost to Dr. Strange in hand to hand combat).

Can we say that Dormammu is at least Skyfather? Remember he stalemated Odin in Chess. This occurred at Asgard, where Odin's power is at his greatest.

Has Mephisto fought anybody that is Skyfather and won? The same can be said about Tyrant. I don't know where to classify him. He seems to be skyfather or maybe a little above. This is just speculation.

Dormammu is conclusively above Skyfather.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well if the retcon doesn't matter then I guess Beyonder is still at classic levels, huh? No, Dormammu was NEVER destroyed. Everyone THOUGHT he was but as revealed later he was PERFECTLY FINE. Why you are clinging to the old retconned non-canon explanation is beyond me.

Anyway Eternity was dormant until Juggernaut and Nightmare set him free by accident, and then he said he was in bonds for two months... so yeah.



i'm not 'clinging' to anything. i told you the first time they met eternity obliterated him. he did. i said eternity>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dormmy. he is. i'd love to know what issue you're referencing btw. are you saying d BOUND eternity? again, i'd love proof. you SAY a lot, kk. you show nothing. almost ever.

and i'd love for you to show ANY proof that 'conclusively' places d above odin. because if i need to i CAN show proof that indicates/implies they are relative equals. though i've showed it in past threads so don't really feel the need to do so again. d's power is very inconsistently depicted. typically, he demonstrates power roughly equal to a skyfather. stop looking at just 40 year-old high end showings.

Originally posted by leonidas


i'm not 'clinging' to anything. i told you the first time they met eternity obliterated him. he did. i said eternity>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dormmy. he is. i'd love to know what issue you're referencing btw. are you saying d BOUND eternity? again, i'd love proof. you SAY a lot, kk. you show nothing. almost ever.
No Eternity did not obliterate him. It was retconned so that he only BFRed Dormammu. Seriously I don't understand why you keep trying to use that showing, it was the old, non-canon explanation that was proven to be false when Dr. Strange got his own series. Dormammu showed up and said "You may have thought I was obliterated, but actually I was in the shadow dimension the whole time! Hahahah!" He was never obliterated. And it was Nightmare that bound Eternity, Eternity was dormant after he fought Dormammu and so Nightmare bound him while he was dormant, and he was bound for two months=two month knockout on Eternities place.

Originally posted by leonidas
and i'd love for you to show ANY proof that 'conclusively' places d above odin. because if i need to i CAN show proof that indicates/implies they are relative equals. though i've showed it in past threads so don't really feel the need to do so again. d's power is very inconsistently depicted. typically, he demonstrates power roughly equal to a skyfather. stop looking at just 40 year-old high end showings.
I'd think knocking out Eternity for two months would be enough, or imprisoning a whole race of Destroyer-level beings.

Originally posted by leonidas

and i'd love for you to show ANY proof that 'conclusively' places d above odin. because if i need to i CAN show proof that indicates/implies they are relative equals. though i've showed it in past threads so don't really feel the need to do so again. d's power is very inconsistently depicted. typically, he demonstrates power roughly equal to a skyfather. stop looking at just 40 year-old high end showings.

Going back to the chess battle, Dormammu actually got the upper hand. Odin was about to lose. Remember, this was in Asgard. So Odin is at his strongest. And Dormammu was winning. This says a lot about Dormammu's power. If the match had been at the Dark Dimension, Dormmy would surely win.

The reason why Dormammu, as well as a lot of villains, lose is because of their egos or some sort of interference that distracts them.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No Eternity did not obliterate him. It was retconned so that he only BFRed Dormammu. Seriously I don't understand why you keep trying to use that showing, it was the old, non-canon explanation that was proven to be false when Dr. Strange got his own series. Dormammu showed up and said "You may have thought I was obliterated, but actually I was in the shadow dimension the whole time! Hahahah!" He was never obliterated. And it was Nightmare that bound Eternity, Eternity was dormant after he fought Dormammu and so Nightmare bound him while he was dormant, and he was bound for two months=two month knockout on Eternities place.


I'd think knocking out Eternity for two months would be enough, or imprisoning a whole race of Destroyer-level beings.

i STILL have no idea where you get this notion that eternity was dormant or ko'd for 2 months. you're right in one regard -- it WAS nightmare you bound eternity. but, before nightmare somehow bound him, strange SPOKE with eternity. he most certainly was NOT dormant when nightmare captured him. in fact, he vanished before strange's eyes.

dormmy was cast into the realms unknown after challenging eternity and was trapped there -- even he thought forever -- until clea found and d and he used her to lure strange to the realm.

and one more time -- in direct conflict with eternity eternity>>>>>>>>d. even d admitted eternity had power beyond his comprehension.

if your sole claim that d>skyfather is the fact that he 'ko'd eternity for 2 months', you'll need to find some sort of evidence to back that up cuz i've never seen it. until such time, you literally have zero proof that d>odin. given all his defeats by strange and ancient one you're single, unsubstantiated claim isn't much.

and pc -- in that same issue it is implied that odin and d ALWAYS end in a stalemate. further testament that they are considered relative equals. nor do i think it would matter WHERE they played chess . . .

Originally posted by leonidas


and pc -- in that same issue it is implied that odin and d ALWAYS end in a stalemate. further testament that they are considered relative equals. nor do i think it would matter WHERE they played chess . . .

You are right Leonidas about Odin=Dormammu. They represent the forces of Order and Chaos. So their matches would always end in a stalemate.

Originally posted by leonidas
i STILL have no idea where you get this notion that eternity was dormant or ko'd for 2 months. you're right in one regard -- it WAS nightmare you bound eternity. but, before nightmare somehow bound him, strange SPOKE with eternity. he most certainly was NOT dormant when nightmare captured him. in fact, he vanished before strange's eyes.
Okay, don't say I didn't warn you because you're about to look REALLY stupid.

Dr. Strange #182, Page 18:

"Ay, Nightmare, you bound me-- after my battle with Dormammu! But why should I not have allowed you-- when the months you held me were as nothing to me?"

Nightmare bound Eternity after Dormammu forced him dormant.

Originally posted by leonidas
dormmy was cast into the realms unknown after challenging eternity and was trapped there -- even he thought forever -- until clea found and d and he used her to lure strange to the realm.
So you admit that Eternity could not destroy him?

Originally posted by leonidas
and one more time -- in direct conflict with eternity eternity>>>>>>>>d. even d admitted eternity had power beyond his comprehension.
When?

Originally posted by leonidas
if your sole claim that d>skyfather is the fact that he 'ko'd eternity for 2 months', you'll need to find some sort of evidence to back that up cuz i've never seen it. until such time, you literally have zero proof that d>odin. given all his defeats by strange and ancient one you're single, unsubstantiated claim isn't much.
Well I guess this one just went down, huh?

Originally posted by leonidas
and pc -- in that same issue it is implied that odin and d ALWAYS end in a stalemate. further testament that they are considered relative equals. nor do i think it would matter WHERE they played chess . . .
Thor only perceived it as chess, it was actually a fight.

Originally posted by King Kandy


Thor only perceived it as chess, it was actually a fight.

It would had been sick if we actually saw Dormammu and Odin battling out instead of it being a chess battle. What was the reason for Thor perceiving the battle between Dormammu and Odin as chess battle?
Was it because Thor couldn't grasp the power the two were unleashing?

Something like that. I think it said they were fighting on levels he couldn't perceive.

Mephisto, only because of the scenario.
By the time Mephisto joins in, Dormammu has beaten up Tyrant (and been minorly injured).
Mephisto then barely beats up Dormammu.

Someone either has to make a Dormy respect thread, or Tyrant wins. srug

Why does no one think Mephisto would win here?

Because he's a mere skyfather, which is weak compared to these two.

Tyrant is now like Thanos level...meaning Mephisto's better.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Someone either has to make a Dormy respect thread, or Tyrant wins. srug

Yea Dormmy is da man. He has a lot of great feats.

Speaking about the fight, does magic have any effect on Tyrant?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, don't say I didn't warn you because you're about to look REALLY stupid.

Dr. Strange #182, Page 18:

"Ay, Nightmare, you bound me-- after my battle with Dormammu! But why should I not have allowed you-- when the months you held me were as nothing to me?"

Nightmare bound Eternity after Dormammu forced him dormant.



so nightmare bound him after the fight. yes, i'm well aware of that. where exactly does it say eternity was dormant BEFORE nightmare bound him . . .?

anyway, you're right -- ONE of us is about to look very stupid . . .

http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternityxz0.jpg

for a dormant being, he speaks quite well . . . at least until nightmare BOUND him:

http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternity2xa4.jpg

he most CERTAINLY WAS NOT DORMANT WHEN NIGHTMARE ATTACKED HIM!





yeah, that's exactly what i said. brilliant debating tactic. clearly YOU are implying eternity lacks the power to kill dormammu if he chooses to do so. wait -- he DID kill him, then cuz d is a cool villain it was retconned to banishment that d needed a plot device to escape from. if you serisously believe eternity lacks the power to destroy d if he wanted to, you're even further gone than i thought.



right about . . . here:

http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternity3ai8.jpg









clearly it is unwise to actually take your word for this. i've read the issue but can't remember if that was ever said but i'll check. regardless, it definitely DID say that their matches always end in stalemates! that implies what, exactly? that odin and d are on the same levels -- SKYFATHER. so even if you ARE right, d has never been able to defeat odin. your own 'proof' strengthens my case. so, thanks.

dormammu

Originally posted by leonidas


so nightmare bound him after the fight. yes, i'm well aware of that. where exactly does it say eternity was dormant BEFORE nightmare bound him . . .?

anyway, you're right -- ONE of us is about to look very stupid . . .

http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternityxz0.jpg

for a dormant being, he speaks quite well . . . at least until nightmare BOUND him:

http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternity2xa4.jpg

he most CERTAINLY WAS NOT DORMANT WHEN NIGHTMARE ATTACKED HIM!
That was NOT when he was bound, that was a vision Nightmare gave strange, showing Eternity was under his control. Dr. Strange rescues Eternity within the next day, but Eternity says he has been bound for months, curious no? That was only Nightmare controlling Eternity.



Originally posted by leonidas


yeah, that's exactly what i said. brilliant debating tactic. clearly YOU are implying eternity lacks the power to kill dormammu if he chooses to do so. wait -- he DID kill him, then cuz d is a cool villain it was retconned to banishment that d needed a plot device to escape from. if you serisously believe eternity lacks the power to destroy d if he wanted to, you're even further gone than i thought.
Actually, he didn't kill him. That was non-canon. Seriously this is like Dr. Doom being killed and next episode you find out he's a Doom-bot. And you would keep insisting that he was "originally" killed.

And as for whether or not Eternity COULD have destroyed Dormammu, well... he had his chance and he came up short.

Originally posted by leonidas
right about . . . here:

http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternity3ai8.jpg
Never says the power was more then he could comprehend, only that it was more then he thought it was. i.e. he underestimated Eternity big time. Never says the power was to great for him to comprehend. If I fight a midget and then it turns out he's built like Arnold Schwarzenegger, then his power was "beyond my reckoning."







Originally posted by leonidas
clearly it is unwise to actually take your word for this. i've read the issue but can't remember if that was ever said but i'll check. regardless, it definitely DID say that their matches always end in stalemates! that implies what, exactly? that odin and d are on the same levels -- SKYFATHER. so even if you ARE right, d has never been able to defeat odin. your own 'proof' strengthens my case. so, thanks.
Yeah, you check on that and scan it for me. And while a stalemate is counted as a tie, it's indicative that one player is a turn away from checkmate and would have lost if not for that rule, i.e. Odin was on the losing side the whole time.

Originally posted by King Kandy
That was NOT when he was bound, that was a vision Nightmare gave strange, showing Eternity was under his control. Dr. Strange rescues Eternity within the next day, but Eternity says he has been bound for months, curious no? That was only Nightmare controlling Eternity.

so not only did eternity let nightmare bind him, he also let nightmare control him? okay . . .

anywho, the issue is getting tiresome. you have exactly . . . ZERO proof that dormammu rendered eternity dormant or comatose or . . . whatever the hell you think happened to him. NIGHTMARE bound eternity, NOT dormammu. your OWN quote supports it. d did NOTHING to eternity. strange himself calls eternity unconquerable and feels silly for having rescued him because eternity could have escaped anytime he wished.





all right. whatever you say.



help! someone throw kandy and life preserver, he's drowning! reckoning=comprehension=understanding

believe what you want though.





that's just . . . shrug

everytime they played they tied. EVERYTIME! one turn away from losing?? wtf?? have you PLAYED chess? i've played a stalemate where neither me NOR my opponent ever had CHECK let alone the fact that one of us was 'a turn away from checkmate!' and it really doesn't matter who was winning at some sundry point in a battle -- it's the END result that matters. what a ridiculous point to raise . . .

the notion that they tie everytime pretty clearly indicates their relative power level to anyone thinking rationally and not continuing to prolong a losing debate out of frustration.

once again, to sum up:

--eternity>>>>>>>>>>dormammu
--NIGHTMARE bound eternity (eternity LET him), NOT dormammu
--you have exactly ZERO proof that dormammu affected eternity in ANY way
--consistently being able to stalemate odin is pretty clear evidence that dormammu is a relative equal to odin. ie--BOTH are skyfather-level
--aside from mentioning the 40yr old eternity battle (which is NO PROOF AT ALL) you have produced exactly ZERO evidence to support your idea that d>odin. how about something from the past 2 decades, maybe? ANYTHING else?? come on kk, he couldn't even take over HELL for more than a day OR without HELP! but he he can put eternity into a coma!

reply if you'd like, but unless you actually have something in the way of proof of your claim, i'm done with the issue.

We can say that Dormammu=Odiin.

The only difference I see between them is that Dormammu is immortal and he actually gains more power through worship. I'm not sure if this adds to his powers, replenishes his health or even makes him stronger than Odin.

So with this in mind, can we conclude that Dormammu>Mephisto because Mephisto is a low Skyfather. What about Mephisto strikes Dormammu? In other words, what other feats has he accomplish or what has he proven to be strong or as strong as a akyfather besides the Galactus fight?

I don't know about Tyrant. Where does he fit in? Tyrant is a monster who took out some of the best single handly. Tyrant only lost the second time because of the Ultimate Nullifier.

Since this battle is taking place on Earth, Mephisto would be weaker than Dormammu and Tyrant. So the battle might end up being just Tyrant and Dormammu. For me, this battle can go either way.

Mephisto wins this fight in his own realm. On neutral ground, Dormammu wins.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Mephisto wins this fight in his own realm. On neutral ground, Dormammu wins.

I can see Dormammu taking this battle. Dormammu has unimaginable mystical power. He has great strength and could grow very tall. . It might be too much for Tyrant to handle.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Mephisto wins this fight in his own realm. On neutral ground, Dormammu wins. ''

Hey guys. I just wanted to revive this topic. Wouldn't Tyrant be able to absorb Mephisto's realm like Galactus did?

Originally posted by PowerCosmic
''

Hey guys. I just wanted to revive this topic. Wouldn't Tyrant be able to absorb Mephisto's realm like Galactus did?

No. Tyrant can absorb biospheric energy, but it's never been shown he can absorb mystical energy.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
No. Tyrant can absorb biospheric energy, but it's never been shown he can absorb mystical energy.

Cool . Then it is settled

On Earth

Dormammu>Tyrant>Mephisto

On Mephisto's Realm

Mephisto>Dormammu> Tyrant

On Dark Dimension

Dormammu>Tyrant>=<Mephisto


Would Mephisto gain any power enhancements in Dormammu's realm? If he didn't then Tyrant>Mephisto. Would Dormammu gain any enhancements on Mephisto's realm?

Originally posted by PowerCosmic
Cool . Then it is settled

On Earth

Dormammu>Tyrant>Mephisto

On Mephisto's Realm

Mephisto>Dormammu> Tyrant

On Dark Dimension

Dormammu>Tyrant>=<Mephisto


Would Mephisto gain any power enhancements in Dormammu's realm? If he didn't then Tyrant>Mephisto. Would Dormammu gain any enhancements on Mephisto's realm?

mephisto has been defeated in his own realm by lesser people than tyrant and dormammu

Originally posted by LORD B
mephisto has been defeated in his own realm by lesser people than tyrant and dormammu

Hmm, I figured Ghost Rider would be one of them. I am not to sure though.

So most likely, Mephisto would be place last place during this match.

Dormammu would then be in a showdown with Tyrant, with Dormammu probably coming out on top with his mystical magic. .