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Both versions of the characters are amped up. So in a fight to death wit no BFR who takes it.

Note this is hulk after mieks statement

Hulk stomps Thor.
other than flight, Thor has nothing of any significance, in Warrior Madness mode or out of WM mode.

Hulk's gamma energies would easily reach out to flood the whole battlefield, so even flight is going to be useless as a means of avoiding Hulk.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk stomps Thor.
other than flight, Thor has nothing of any significance, in Warrior Madness mode or out of WM mode.

Hulk's gamma energies would easily reach out to flood the whole battlefield, so even flight is going to be useless as a means of avoiding Hulk. I see you've never read anything with thor in it.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I see you've never read anything with thor in it.
you do?
fascinating, prey tell how WM Thor wins or even gets much of a shot in, against Hulk when bfr is eliminated from the options and when Hulk's spewing gamma continent wide?

what's he going to do? hit him with the mallet? GodBlast? the same attack that did jack to Juggernaut?

SSJ Hulk is a useless form, he BFRs himself.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
SSJ Hulk is a useless form, he BFRs himself.

He only BFR'd himself because he didn't want to destroy the planet. At that time he was trying his best to hold back the energies.

In this case there is no such problem - SSJ in a massive stomp. He was pushing down WM Thor with one hand, this form is a billion times more powerful.

Hulk

Hulk

the hell is gamma rad gonna do to an immortal god who can absorb it ad infinitum?

i'm having a hard time thinking hulk could handle a godblast, even in this form . . . a couple lightning bolts put him down in the past. thor could stay out of his range and use his energy attacks all day. no bfr needed.

unless Banner wants to be put down, there's no way Thor's taking Hulk down. simple as.

you know how many nukes he survived? the warp core breach that destroyed a planet couldn't do anything to him, he's just way beyond Thor's powers.


and as for being an "immortal god", what does that make Surfer?

an immortal non-god . . .?

if we lit off EVERY NUKE ON EARTH -- thousands of them, at once -- the planet itself wouldn't even feel it. thor has power to destroy a planet.

thor>>>>>>>>>>>a WHOLE LOTTA NUKES

thor doesn't wanna be hit, he won't be hit. tell me one really good reason thor couldn't simply do this to ANY hulk:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsPresence1.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsPresence2.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsPresence3.jpg

thor absorbs all the radiation that powers the presence -- someone who has gone toe-to-toe with QUASAR. there is no logical reason at all that thor couldn't do EXACTLY the same thing to ANY version of hulk.

Surfer will outlast the Asgardians, out live them. they're only superficially immortal, Surfer's got a bigger, badder and better "god" behind him - Galactus!


Sakaar was a planet that was more or less destroyed by the warpcore breach, Hulk didn't even feel it.

and Hulk has way more strength and power than Thor, so much so that his mere steps could break the world. that's the energy that he unleashes without really forcing himself to.

it's ridiculous to think that Thor's somehow going to be immune to that level of energy, when Surfer's hurt Thor with blasts of energy, when other characters have too.

and how will Thor escape the Hulk's gamma output, it easily spanned a continent and was affecting every hero there, as well as buildings and helicopters... it is omni-directional.

Hulk generates his own gamma radiation, it doesn't exist outside of Hulk so Thor would basically only be absorbing that portion of the gamma that Hulk expels, and even then, Thor isn't going to be able to both absorb the energies coming out of Hulk as well as fight and dodge Hulk at the same time.

Surfer only manages to siphon gamma from Hulk because Surfer is durable enough to just stand there and take a lot of Hulk's attacks without effect.

Hulk has gone toe to toe with Onslaught, I think that trumps WM Thor and Quasar by a good margin.

Originally posted by janus77

Hulk has gone toe to toe with Onslaught, I think that trumps WM Thor and Quasar by a good margin.


wm thor went toe to toe with thanos
thanos>>onslaught

Originally posted by skyfather
wm thor went toe to toe with thanos
thanos>>onslaught
Hulk went toe to toe with WM Thor so :P.

and I'd dispute this Thanos > Onslaught thing, definitely doesn't look like it.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk went toe to toe with WM Thor so :P.

and I'd dispute this Thanos > Onslaught thing, definitely doesn't look like it.
how would onslaught defeat thanos?
he couldnt mind rape him
thanos cant be reality manipulated
thanos is physically strong enough to go toe to toe.

Onslaught = bullshit.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk's gamma energies would easily reach out to flood the whole battlefield, so even flight is going to be useless as a means of avoiding Hulk.
Um, you do know that Mjolnir can absorb unlimited amounts of energy and radiation, right?

Originally posted by janus77
Thor isn't going to be able to both absorb the energies coming out of Hulk as well as fight and dodge Hulk at the same time.

Surfer only manages to siphon gamma from Hulk because Surfer is durable enough to just stand there and take a lot of Hulk's attacks without effect.




so ss needs to be getting struck by hulk to drain him? funny, i thought he could just, who know . . . FLY and drain him! or hover out of his reach! neither ss OR thor need to ever be HIT by hulk.

and btw -- mjollnir>>ss at absorbing energy. we've SEEN ss ready to explode/driven mad from absorbing energy. thor's hammer otoh has absorbed the energy of a CELESTIAL null bomb. the bomb had enough power to destroy a friggin GALAXY.

http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimate0060az.jpg

notice how the absorbed energy was released to reignite a SUN! and he did that in SECONDS.

and you think somehow he'd have trouble draining hulk, or wading into his gamma rays when thor has stood inside a sun himself?? please . . .

you have absolutely no rational way to explain away the fact that thor could simply hover out of hulk's range and drain him dry of gamma energy in seconds. end of fight. everytime.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk went toe to toe with WM Thor so :P.
In an alternate reality... when Thor didn't have the Power Gem.

yes alternate reality, but still Thor's a God gone WM and Hulk's just using more of that infinite power source.

Originally posted by leonidas


so ss needs to be getting struck by hulk to drain him? funny, i thought he could just, who know . . . FLY and drain him! or hover out of his reach! neither ss OR thor need to ever be HIT by hulk.

and btw -- mjollnir>>ss at absorbing energy. we've SEEN ss ready to explode/driven mad from absorbing energy. thor's hammer otoh has absorbed the energy of a CELESTIAL null bomb. the bomb had enough power to destroy a friggin GALAXY.

http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimate0060az.jpg

notice how the absorbed energy was released to reignite a SUN! and he did that in SECONDS.

and you think somehow he'd have trouble draining hulk, or wading into his gamma rays when thor has stood inside a sun himself?? please . . .

you have absolutely no rational way to explain away the fact that thor could simply hover out of hulk's range and drain him dry of gamma energy in seconds. end of fight. everytime.
more importantly, Hulk has absorbed and expelled TWO UNIVERSES worth of energy, he's a friggin' nexus of universes. galaxies are quite piddlingly small in comparison.

Hulk's universal energies >>>>>>>>>> galaxy destroying blast. that's cannon and indisputable.

can you show me the scan of the galaxy destroying energies that Thor's hammer absorbs, I mean actual proof not hyperbole?

Nova's reignited a dead sun, Surfer's more than capable and Surfer has absorbed the energies of a friggin' Universal/Dimensional God.

so until I see something more definitive I'll stand by Surfer >>> Thor in terms of energy absorption and emission.

Hulk's gone through black holes without ill effect but the fact still remains there is a level of energy that would have effect, it's just ridiculously high.

in the past Thor was almost killed (according to himself) by a mere warning blast from Surfer, so there's plenty of reason to believe that blasts/energy releases of sufficient power (and given Hulk has no limits, that would not be a problem for him) Thor would die.

now turning to what Thor could possibly do to Hulk, if bfr is removed, I don't see him being even close to Zom/Strange in magical/physical power and I doubt he's that much more powerful than Sentry when it comes to energy attacks.

Hulk has an infinite amount of energy, I've seen Mjolnir max out and fail to achieve anything significant with a fairly pedestrian foe (Juggernaut) whilst Onslaught and War Hulk both humiliated that same foe.

Hulk at this state is just stupendously more powerful than the Hulk that took both of them out, I just don't see WM Thor surviving this.

Even the writer himself stated that Thor with the full Odinforce wouldn't stand a chance against this version of Hulk. Hulk has plenty of instances of matching Thor in a form that's much weaker no less. Hulk's strength grows exponentially. What that means in layman's terms is that one moment he can be at 150 billion ton strength range, and the next he can be at 150 trillion strength ton range.

On planet Sakaar he was in the quintillion ton strength range when holding the planet together - and that was while weakened. Top it off, SSJ level WWH went through the following powerups
* warp core gamma explosion
* meditative state to hold anger
* Massive mind blowing rage

This is Hulk at a level where the writer himself said that Thor with the full Odinforce would lose against him. This is a hulk trillions of times stronger than the one that fought Hercules and held back from killing him. If a normal Hulk can stand against WM Thor toe to toe with no problem, then this version would utterly stomp Thor.

You guys act like Thor and Hulk didn't fight already in the past - they each have wins and losses, but each of these versions of Hulk looks like an ant in comparison with Hulk's power level post Miek statement.

Thor had to slam his hammer into the ground to cause the Earth to crack, and that wasn't even a crack 1/10th the size of Hulk's merest footstep. NOT a stomp. A single FOOTSTEP cracked the entire island of Manhattan in half. Top it off his power level was continuing to grow. His energy aura was bigger than an entire skyscraper, he was billions of times more powerful than he was during his fight with Sentry, his regeneration and durability go up as well, so he would be nearly instantly healing any shot Thor threw at him, something here people seem to forget.

Originally posted by Kutulu
This is Hulk at a level where the writer himself said that Thor with the full Odinforce would lose against him.
Great. What does the writer of Thor say to that?

Originally posted by leonidas
an immortal non-god . . .?

if we lit off EVERY NUKE ON EARTH -- thousands of them, at once -- the planet itself wouldn't even feel it. thor has power to destroy a planet.

thor>>>>>>>>>>>a WHOLE LOTTA NUKES

thor doesn't wanna be hit, he won't be hit. tell me one really good reason thor couldn't simply do this to ANY hulk:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsPresence1.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsPresence2.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsPresence3.jpg

thor absorbs all the radiation that powers the presence -- someone who has gone toe-to-toe with QUASAR. there is no logical reason at all that thor couldn't do EXACTLY the same thing to ANY version of hulk.
Because thor sucks! And Hulk is strongest one there is!

Originally posted by janus77
yes alternate reality, but still Thor's a God gone WM and Hulk's just using more of that infinite power source.

you should know better than to bring up non-canon material. nuff said.



expelled 2 universes of energy, eh? proof?



to use your own point -- those 2 universes of energy (proof?) don't seem to be enough to get him a win over the pedestrian juggernaut. even ww hulk couldn't get the advantage over him.



if you don't believe the words of the character, not much i can do for you.



and? he was driven mad by simply absorbing large amounts of energy from earth's sun! he was driven so nuts in infinity crusade he couldn't even find his own way to his target! and he didn't even absorb nearly the full sun. he also failed to absorb the ego infestation -- quasar had to deal with that. his limits have been firmly established and they are <<mjollnir.



it's wrong, but that is certainly your perogative.



i'm not even sure what the heck this means. thor wouldn't be blasting him with anything -- he'd be absorbing energy from him. you just don't believe mjollnir -- a skyfather level weapon -- is capable of absorbing his energy. and to that i can only say . . .





that's a classic the ss guys bring up. but do they ever mention ss's admitting that mjollnir>ss? or how thor battled (and held BACK) against an AMPED ss who also had loki's powers? no, funny that they usually leave that part out . . .



you're wrong on all counts. the god blast>anything sentry has shown and very likely IS on zom's level. strange himself has been shocked by thor's power and been shown to be an approximate match at times for loki. thor>>loki.



the whole 'infinite energy' is all well and good in theory but it has never been demonstrated in any practical sense. ss can and HAS very easily drained him and made him change to banner. thor could do exactly the same thing.



your perogative of course. you raise some good points. i like hulk. but based on what thor has been shown to accomplish with his hammer, i think he could drain hulk enough to be able to take him out. massive energy drain, blast it back x100 strength, follow with godblast for good measure. all long range. thor STILL has too much versatility imo.

Originally posted by jinzin
Because thor sucks! And Hulk is strongest one there is!

shouldn't you be trolling a wolverine thread.

The "2 UNIVERZES OF POWA" is long gone... err...

Originally posted by leonidas
shouldn't you be trolling a wolverine thread.

shouldn't you be throwing persians off of cliffs?

Originally posted by jinzin
shouldn't you be throwing persians off of cliffs?
rofl

damn, that was a good repost!

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
The "2 UNIVERZES OF POWA" is long gone... err...
no it's not, actually.
Franklin's universe is gone yes, but the other universe is the one from which Hulk usually gets his power.

but the point was to show that absorbing and expelling "a galaxy destroying" amount of energy is pathetic compared to what Hulk did in Heroes Return, where he was expelling a universe's energies in order to open and keep open the portal between the pocket universe and the 616 universe.

Originally posted by janus77
no it's not, actually.
Franklin's universe is gone yes, but the other universe is the one from which Hulk usually gets his power.

but the point was to show that absorbing and expelling "a galaxy destroying" amount of energy is pathetic compared to what Hulk did in Heroes Return, where he was expelling a universe's energies in order to open and keep open the portal between the pocket universe and the 616 universe. So... is Hulk getting two universes worth of energy funneled to him or not?
Because if he isn't...

Unless Hulk is an energy manipulator, and is going to use it in this battle... that point is completely irrelevant.

Originally posted by leonidas
you should know better than to bring up non-canon material. nuff said.



expelled 2 universes of energy, eh? proof?



to use your own point -- those 2 universes of energy (proof?) don't seem to be enough to get him a win over the pedestrian juggernaut. even ww hulk couldn't get the advantage over him.



if you don't believe the words of the character, not much i can do for you.



and? he was driven mad by simply absorbing large amounts of energy from earth's sun! he was driven so nuts in infinity crusade he couldn't even find his own way to his target! and he didn't even absorb nearly the full sun. he also failed to absorb the ego infestation -- quasar had to deal with that. his limits have been firmly established and they are <<mjollnir.



it's wrong, but that is certainly your perogative.



i'm not even sure what the heck this means. thor wouldn't be blasting him with anything -- he'd be absorbing energy from him. you just don't believe mjollnir -- a skyfather level weapon -- is capable of absorbing his energy. and to that i can only say . . .





that's a classic the ss guys bring up. but do they ever mention ss's admitting that mjollnir>ss? or how thor battled (and held BACK) against an AMPED ss who also had loki's powers? no, funny that they usually leave that part out . . .



you're wrong on all counts. the god blast>anything sentry has shown and very likely IS on zom's level. strange himself has been shocked by thor's power and been shown to be an approximate match at times for loki. thor>>loki.



the whole 'infinite energy' is all well and good in theory but it has never been demonstrated in any practical sense. ss can and HAS very easily drained him and made him change to banner. thor could do exactly the same thing.



your perogative of course. you raise some good points. i like hulk. but based on what thor has been shown to accomplish with his hammer, i think he could drain hulk enough to be able to take him out. massive energy drain, blast it back x100 strength, follow with godblast for good measure. all long range. thor STILL has too much versatility imo.
proof of nexus energies and on-panel statement of 2 universes of energies flowing through Hulk?
Heroes Return.

the infinite energy thing has practical effect, it's why Hulk manages to do things Thor won't and can't, such as beating up on the most powerful physical manifestation of Onslaught, like rending dimensional barriers by physically punching at them, like holding a planet together. Hulk's strength feats just have no limitations. Thor's quite obviously do.

Thor has faced off against Hulk many many times and never been shown to drain Hulk, even though he's often desired not to fight him or to end a confrontation quickly. Surfer has frequently siphoned gamma, I've never seen Thor do it and I doubt he can. he might be able to absorb some of the energies that Hulk will bathe the entire battlefield with, but that's going to require Thor's concentration and more importantly it's going to take Mjolnir out of the battle - because it will have to be absorbing the energies - whilst Hulk will be free to pummel Thor without any let up in terms of the energies he is throwing out or in terms of the exponentially increasing strength of his attacks.

I don't have anything against Thor but I find that people seriously do, often intentionally, under-estimate the phenomenal power and abilities that The Hulk represents.

as for the idea that Mjolnir/WM Thor is Zom level ... seriously not worth it .

Zom was Strange's last resort, a desperate move to try and fight Hulk with strength and power - power clearly beyond Strange's control.
Hulk not only took Zom/Strange's barrage but, with a mere 3 punches, he KO'd Zom/Strange, leaving the "essence of Zom" to flee and seek out a host to help it reacquire the power that Strange had used up fighting Hulk (hence when Cho became the host, Angel KO'd it).

if all it took was mjolnir's/Thor's level of power to fight Hulk, Strange would never have lost control, never have stated that he couldn't control "so much power". Strange got a taste of the kinds of powers that Hulk keeps suppressed and Strange was humiliated by the fact that he could not control that kind of power, that he was more of a brute and threat with that level of power than the Hulk that he and the illuminati banished was. read that fight again, seriously.


regarding the instance were Surfer said that Thor was more powerful, that was a very very weak Surfer, during his banishment to Earth, who frequently said that he was a lot less powerful than he had been. since then Surfer has gone so far beyond Thor it's not even a debate. Surfer could actually hurt and survive an attack by characters of the level of Galactus, Thor could never do that (PIS/starving Galactus aside).

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
So... is Hulk getting two universes worth of energy funneled to him or not?
Because if he isn't...

Unless Hulk is an energy manipulator, and is going to use it in this battle... that point is completely irrelevant.
I was responding to what you seemed to be implying, that Hulk didn't have such levels of energy any more. as I said, he only lost Franklin's pocket universe, he still retains an infinite - as stated by The Beyonder, and as stated by Marvel - energy universe.

it's not irrelevant and it takes a bit of obtuseness to assert that.
his energies are the reason for his physical power, durability, stamina AND the friggin' energy waves that were destroying the planet. it's infinite energy, that he can and will keep on expelling at ever growing rates. it should be obvious how critical a factor that will play in any battle.

oh and Hulk has manipulated energy in the past, including expelling energy as a weapon. so yeah, he's got some form of energy manipulation and wielding abilities .

Originally posted by janus77
I was responding to what you seemed to be implying, that Hulk didn't have such levels of energy any more. as I said, he only lost Franklin's pocket universe, he still retains an infinite - as stated by The Beyonder, and as stated by Marvel - energy universe.

it's not irrelevant and it takes a bit of obtuseness to assert that.
his energies are the reason for his physical power, durability, stamina AND the friggin' energy waves that were destroying the planet. it's infinite energy, that he can and will keep on expelling at ever growing rates. it should be obvious how critical a factor that will play in any battle.

oh and Hulk has manipulated energy in the past, including expelling energy as a weapon. so yeah, he's got some form of energy manipulation and wielding abilities . Oh... so he doesn't have two universes worth of power funneling into him anymore? Oh, OK.

The problem is that you're using feats from when Hulk had two universes worth of power funneling into him, to try and prove a point. That shit isn't really relevant to regular Hulk (Hulk that gets his own power).
He seemed to hit a max at the end of WWH... but... OK.

Ah... relevance? Because the way I see it... Thor is infinity times greater than Hulk in energy manipulating... but that's just me.

Also:
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
The "2 UNIVERZES OF POWA" is long gone... err... Originally posted by janus77
no it's not, actually.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Oh... so he doesn't have two universes worth of power funneling into him anymore? Oh, OK.

The problem is that you're using feats from when Hulk had two universes worth of power funneling into him, to try and prove a point. That shit isn't really relevant to regular Hulk (Hulk that gets his own power).
He seemed to hit a max at the end of WWH... but... OK.

Ah... relevance? Because the way I see it... Thor is infinity times greater than Hulk in energy manipulating... but that's just me.

Also:
again, other than hostility towards the character's powerset, feats and basic status, what have you got to back up your assertion that Thor is "infinity times greater" in power?

what feats am I using that are from back in the Nexus energies period? his best feat was prior to acquiring Nexus energies, from before Onslaught's demise. remember he was the one that punched out Onslaught, he was the only one strong enough.
and Franklin was then released from Onslaught and free to create that pocket dimension. could you actually provide proof for what you've accused me of there?

what I'm presenting is both the mechanics of The Hulk as explicated by Marvel and how that would operate in a given hypothetical situation.

have you any proof for your "he hit a max at the end of WWH..."? no, of course not, you just wish that were true.

and again, as I said before, I was responding to the implied idea in your initial post that Hulk somehow was no longer powered on that scale. whilst technically no longer 2 universes of energies, 1 universe still trumps anything and everything Thor has.

Originally posted by janus77
proof of nexus energies and on-panel statement of 2 universes of energies flowing through Hulk?
Heroes Return.

ahh, heroes reborn is what you were talking about. yeah, like bran said -- so he doesn't have 2 universes. and in fact, there is only speculation that he draws his power from another dimension period. where are you getting the proof that he draws power from 'another universe'?



i'm not gonna get into comparing high end feats. i can very CLEARLY argue that hulk's strength HAS shown limits though i have argued the theoretical 'limitless' of his strength in the past. practically speaking, he AHS shown limits, he HAS been overpowered, he HAS failed to hurt or stop juggernaut. the boundless nature of his strength is speculatory only, as is this 'infinite energy' you want to credit him with.



i have no clue why you would doubt thor could do the same thing ss could, but, your perogative. and using the hammer to drain him wouldn't take the hammer out of the fight -- it would weaken hulk more and more. there has NEVER been a limit shown on what the hammer could absorb.



i'm not one, except in this case, thor is simply too versatile.



have no idea what you're getting at here. in any event, strange has NOT been shown to be at the levels he has previously been shown at. a well written strange should have owned ww hulk. it was the only battle i didn't buy in that series. and he didn't ko hercules with 3 shots. does that mean herc>zom? and he STILL couldn't beat juggs. juggs>zom?



like i said -- the strange battle was PIS in my book. i don't know how well you know strange but there is NO WAY ANY hulk should EVER beat strange. no way.



yeah, that's another thing i hear from ss guys all the time -- he was weakened. cuz of the shark? except that was NEVER retconned so no one knows WHEN the effects wore off. there was no MENTION he was weak for several issues PRIOR to that thor story, so to say he was weak is actually baseless speculation since you cannot point to a time when he 'regained' his powers. and to say ss is far beyond thor now is also ridiculous. ss has been ko'd in 3 shots by thanos. the galactus-level guys you're talking about basically one-shotted him (aegis and tenebrous i assume?). odin swatted him like a gnat. you need to stop looking at just high-end showings for everyone. if you're talking current ss, his upgrade is still undefined and it appears current thor is also more powerful so your argument STILL falls through.

you don't think thor can drain him. i showed proof he can drain radiation from a being. i showed him absorbing a blast capable of destroying a GALAXY nor is there evidence to suggest any limit on what thor can absorb. you think that still wouldn't be enough to weaken hulk. you claim 'infinite energy' yet for every 'impossible feat' there are loads MORE feats that contradict that idea.

meh. clearly you won't be swayed. c'est la vie.

SSJ? some 1 fill me in please

Originally posted by Kutulu
Even the writer himself stated that Thor with the full Odinforce wouldn't stand a chance against this version of Hulk. A writer said SMP>all but Beyonder. Is that true?

Originally posted by jinzin
shouldn't you be throwing persians off of cliffs?

i'm gonna push wolverine off a cliff.

my 300>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your little hair ball.

Originally posted by leonidas


Except for the fact that he'd never fight Hulk in this manner, especially WM Thor?

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
SSJ? some 1 fill me in please Worldbreaker, who appeared at the end of the World War Hulk series. Named SSJ due to the aura.

Originally posted by leonidas
to use your own point -- those 2 universes of energy (proof?) don't seem to be enough to get him a win over the pedestrian juggernaut. even ww hulk couldn't get the advantage over him.

WWH after Miek statement would own Juggernaut and would own him easily.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Even the writer himself stated that Thor with the full Odinforce wouldn't stand a chance against this version of Hulk.

Really?
So Hulk is beyond skyfather level now? I only remember writer said that in that moment Superman would lose against Hulk physically (except if you give me the quote). And even if he said so, we know he isn't.

Now, apparently Hulk could go against Tyrant I guess, and actually win.

Wow. Come on. Who is kidding who. He would own Thor, but he wouldn't stand a chance against King Thor.

Originally posted by janus77
Zom was Strange's last resort, a desperate move to try and fight Hulk with strength and power

You forgot to mention it was only a fraction of Zom powers.

Originally posted by Xplosive
WWH after Miek statement would own Juggernaut and would own him easily.



Really?
So Hulk is beyond skyfather level now? I only remember writer said that in that moment Superman would lose against Hulk physically (except if you give me the quote). And even if he said so, we know he isn't.

Now, apparently Hulk could go against Tyrant I guess, and actually win.

Wow. Come on. Who is kidding who. He would own Thor, but he wouldn't stand a chance against King Thor.



You forgot to mention it was only a fraction of Zom powers.
every time I mention Zom/Strange, I assume people know that. Strange was channeling Zom, getting a fraction of Zom's power in order to take on Hulk. I think I've stated all this time and again, when discussing/debating WWH related fights.


and yeah, Pak has stated that "SSJ" Hulk would beat Superman, that he would be too much for Thor too ...

but that's Pak's view and he's welcome to it and if Marvel/DC ever put it on-panel that'll be my main argument, instead of just going with feats and the character's powerset as revealed in comics through narration and illustration.

This is lame The Hulk is not a sky father level character Thor would pound him into the earth easily.

Originally posted by skyfather
wm thor went toe to toe with thanos

And what gives you an idea that WWH wouldn't be able to go toe to toe against Thanos?
And no, Thanos isn't >>>>>Onslaught.

Originally posted by janus77
and yeah, Pak has stated that "SSJ" Hulk would beat Superman, that he would be too much for Thor too ...

I agree that WWH would be too much for Thor but that Thor with a full Odinforce wouldn't stand a chance, well, then Pak is kidding himself.
Because he isn't and hasn't shown nothing to be in his league.

I am now waiting to be said that WWH would be too much for the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by iceman24567
This is lame The Hulk is not a sky father level character Thor would pound him into the earth easily.
you prefaced the substance of your point with a pithy summary, thank you .

Originally posted by Xplosive
And what gives you an idea that WWH wouldn't be able to go toe to toe against Thanos?
And no, Thanos isn't >>>>>Onslaught.



I agree that WWH would be too much for Thor but that Thor with a full Odinforce wouldn't stand a chance, well, then Pak is kidding himself.
Because he isn't and hasn't shown nothing to be in his league.

I am now waiting to be said that WWH would be too much for the Phoenix Force.
honestly, I haven't a clue what current Thor's done that makes people rate him so highly. aside from The Destroyer I don't recall anything much going on. and Hulk has, in the past, gotten blasted by The Destroyer (though I don't know how powerful the beam was) without being .. destroyed. and that was a Destroyer inhabited by Maestro Hulk, whom I'd imagine to be a good deal more powerful than the typical Asgardian or even 'classic' Thor.

anyway, until Hulk actually does take down a few more skyfather level characters (Onslaught, Zom/Strange) I won't be making a case for Hulk battling Cosmics.

Originally posted by janus77
honestly, I haven't a clue what current Thor's done that makes people rate him so highly. aside from The Destroyer I don't recall anything much going on. and Hulk has, in the past, gotten blasted by The Destroyer (though I don't know how powerful the beam was) without being .. destroyed. and that was a Destroyer inhabited by Maestro Hulk, whom I'd imagine to be a good deal more powerful than the typical Asgardian or even 'classic' Thor.

anyway, until Hulk actually does take down a few more skyfather level characters (Onslaught, Zom/Strange) I won't be making a case for Hulk battling Cosmics.

WWH hasn't even battle no one close to Odin level.

I would say Onslaught was pretty close, when you include the powers of Franklin that he tapped into. the same Franklin who created a pocket universe and was treated as an equal by The Celestials.

I'd say the same goes for Zom/Strange, that for Strange to be unable to control the power he was channeling, it would have to be pretty much skyfather level, given his track record with channeling and casting spells. and given Zom's phenomenally uber level, a fraction would likely be at about skyfather level.

Originally posted by janus77
I would say Onslaught was pretty close, when you include the powers of Franklin that he tapped into. the same Franklin who created a pocket universe and was treated as an equal by The Celestials.

Hulk fought Onslaught who was using only his strength and not other powers he had. Onslaught plan was also to get rid of his armour. I doubt Hulk would survive a second with Onslaught if he would 100% be determined to kill Hulk.
Onslaught with the power he had should go beyond even skyfather level.
And we all know that Hulk is really nothing more than a bug compared to the powers Onslaught had. And also due to his power, Onslaught should also give himself more brute strength then Hulk.

Originally posted by janus77
and given Zom's phenomenally uber level, a fraction would likely be at about skyfather level.

I really doubt it, especially because it wasn't close shown to be the skyfather level battle.

And also Strange said that he could kill WWH with his fingers. If Strange would go out 100% determined to kill WWH, he would have done it with the snap of his fingers.

Originally posted by janus77
you prefaced the substance of your point with a pithy summary, thank you . You made no point which makes you the best poster of the week. Lets face it WWH was portrayed as being above most of the heroes on earth but remember none of them were even close to sky father level so how could The Hulk be consider even close to Odin level? He beat herald level characters nothing more its like me saying Superboy prime is Odin level because he beat up Superman and the Flashes .

Originally posted by janus77
I would say Onslaught was pretty close, when you include the powers of Franklin that he tapped into. the same Franklin who created a pocket universe and was treated as an equal by The Celestials.

I'd say the same goes for Zom/Strange, that for Strange to be unable to control the power he was channeling, it would have to be pretty much skyfather level, given his track record with channeling and casting spells. and given Zom's phenomenally uber level, a fraction would likely be at about skyfather level. So now you are trying to use the Strange fight as some kind of sky father level feat? . Strange had the Hulk cornered and he could do nothing to stop Strange who was the one that stopped attacking? No a fraction of Zom doesn't equal sky father you are reaching for some odd reason.

Originally posted by iceman24567
You made no point which makes you the best poster of the week. Lets face it WWH was portrayed as being above most of the heroes on earth but remember none of them were even close to sky father level so how could The Hulk be consider even close to Odin level? He beat herald level characters nothing more its like me saying Superboy prime is Odin level because he beat up Superman and the Flashes . Superman Prime beat up Mxy. 313

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Superman Prime beat up Mxy. 313 Oh noes he has to be abstract level

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm gonna push wolverine off a cliff.

my 300>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your little hair ball.

Lies!


You're just mad cause Wolverine's da man and he already killed your 300 in BS comics issue #347!
hmph!

Originally posted by Xplosive
Hulk fought Onslaught who was using only his strength and not other powers he had. Onslaught plan was also to get rid of his armour. I doubt Hulk would survive a second with Onslaught if he would 100% be determined to kill Hulk.
Onslaught with the power he had should go beyond even skyfather level.
And we all know that Hulk is really nothing more than a bug compared to the powers Onslaught had. And also due to his power, Onslaught should also give himself more brute strength then Hulk.



I really doubt it, especially because it wasn't close shown to be the skyfather level battle.

And also Strange said that he could kill WWH with his fingers. If Strange would go out 100% determined to kill WWH, he would have done it with the snap of his fingers.
Onslaught didn't show any intention of getting rid of his armour at all, that's been said by many but no proof is ever presented. instead what we saw was Onslaught gloating at the fact that he had become a being of pure energy (and then quickly getting beaten by the very foes who together could not do anything to harm him before). I think it's a very dubious argument to suggest that he let Hulk break his armour. also, if you go by that reasoning, as tendentious as it is, then you must accept that Onslaught could not by his own powers escape the armour, that he required The Hulk and The Hulk alone, to achieve his escape. given that all the heroes were there attempting to crack Onslaught, that does seem to confirm Hulk's physical power > Onslaught's physical power.

I never made a claim for Onslaught, in totality, being weaker than or the equal of Hulk, just in physical confrontation he clearly was weaker than Hulk, ultimately.


as far as Strange's claim goes, I don't buy it. hyperbole. I can see Strange easily bfr'ing Hulk but, the only way Strange would be able to kill Hulk is to summon power from some high end god and that would leave his soul imperiled too, thus technically a double-KO/stalemate.

Strange did go out 100% determined to kill Hulk, but only after failing to subdue and calm Hulk on the astral plane and getting his hands mushed. it was quite evident that Strange chose to channel Zom so as to have enough power (or so he presumed) to take down Hulk. clearly Strange wasn't messing about in the battle either, as he ripped through Hulk's chest and torso pretty much right away. furthermore, we have Strange's final realisation that the power was too much for him to control, definitive proof (if it is necessary after so much evidence) that Strange had called in some serious mojo in the form of his channeling of Zom's essence.

Originally posted by janus77
again, other than hostility towards the character's powerset, feats and basic status, what have you got to back up your assertion that Thor is "infinity times greater" in power?

what feats am I using that are from back in the Nexus energies period? his best feat was prior to acquiring Nexus energies, from before Onslaught's demise. remember he was the one that punched out Onslaught, he was the only one strong enough.
and Franklin was then released from Onslaught and free to create that pocket dimension. could you actually provide proof for what you've accused me of there?

what I'm presenting is both the mechanics of The Hulk as explicated by Marvel and how that would operate in a given hypothetical situation.

have you any proof for your "he hit a max at the end of WWH..."? no, of course not, you just wish that were true.

and again, as I said before, I was responding to the implied idea in your initial post that Hulk somehow was no longer powered on that scale. whilst technically no longer 2 universes of energies, 1 universe still trumps anything and everything Thor has. You misread what I wrote... badly.
Unless you believe Hulk is even close to Thor in energy manipulation.

When you said he was using two universes of power... and I said that was long gone.

I said 'seemed'... as he was angrier than he's ever been in WWH... and then got even madder after he learned of something even more sinister. To a point of throwing off massive amounts of gamma radiation.

And if he's not powered by two universes anymore... that entire point of bringing it up, was highly irrelevant.
I was never bringing in the discussion of who would win in the fight. Except that Thor is a better energy manipulator.

Plus, does that mean that Hulk beats anyone under universe level?

World Breaker wins 10 out of 10. Easy.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
In an alternate reality... when Thor didn't have the Power Gem.

That was not Thor in Warrior Madness (Blood and Thunder Thor was NOT Thor in Warrior Madness).

Thor was in Warrior Madness in TIH #440 as stated by the narration. The Merged Hulk dominated HIM.

What the f*ck are you talking about?

I swear that you were perma banned...

Damn mods.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
What the f*ck are you talking about?

I swear that you were perma banned...

Damn mods.

Read TIH #440. It has been said that Thor is in FULL Warrior Madness.
Read Blood and Thunders. It has been said that Thor was NOT in Warrior Madness.

Woah when did you come back?

Originally posted by janus77
you do?
fascinating, prey tell how WM Thor wins or even gets much of a shot in, against Hulk when bfr is eliminated from the options and when Hulk's spewing gamma continent wide?

what's he going to do? hit him with the mallet? GodBlast? the same attack that did jack to Juggernaut? Did I say Thor won?

I was attacking your assesment that other than flight Thor has nothing even out of warrior madness mode.

Originally posted by FearOfBlood
World Breaker wins 10 out of 10. Easy. YOU ARE A ****ING IDIOT.

Okay I'm going to take a crack at this.

Guys, I'm a street level operative, so if I'm way off base please be easy on me.

Okay, While I think that there has been some excellent speculation from both sides of the debate, I also think that most of that speculation has been strictly bias.

I would venture to say that Hulk does draw his energy from an infinite power source. I think that aside from being an attribute that'd be consistent with his representation of madder=stronger, it's been alluded to enough times to simply be written off as nonsense.

I DO however think there's limits to the strength Hulk can attain given whatever personality he's using at the moment. One of the reasons he was so powerful in the Onslaught battle was because of the fact that he had outside help allowing him to let go of some psychological restraints that were previously holding him back. Whether he reached the apex of his power at that point or could have continued is speculation either way, but there's a good point brought up in that he was the only one who was able to confront Onslaught on a physical level at that moment.

The armor cracking. Impressive though it is... and, it IS impressive, the story did seem to imply that Onslaught had no interest in keeping it as he had ascended. I've also seen convincing arguments that Onslaught let it happen so that he COULD ascend. So it seems as an ambiguous thing to use against Thor in support of Hulk.

With his energy. It's not "limitless". The source he may be drawing energy from "could" be, but the amount he's able to retain in one Hulk manifestion can't be. As pointed out, we've seen him hit physical limits (even if it's been due to psychological issues), AND we've seen SS draw on his energy as well.

With Moljinir, Thor has been shown to draw out energy sources both physical and spectoral. While I think it's reasonable to question why he hasn't done the SS energy drain tactic on Hulk possibly because he couldn't, I don't think it's reasonable to answer that question by asserting that Moljinir's incapable of such a feat. Given the omnipotent origin of the tool itself one can most reasonably assume that Gamma radiation is well within the scope of it's abilities to manipulate.

All that said, this is warrior madness Thor, and if CIS has played a part in him failing to take advantage of such an incredibly powerful dues ex as Moljinir in his past fights with the green goliath, I fail to see how that's going to change here.

On one hand, we've seen that Moljinir's one of the most effective "hulk whackers" to date when it comes to putting the big guy down with blasts. On the other, we've seen multiple times that Thor's a bit over his head when it comes to dealing with Hulk using fisticuffs.

So... If he uses his versatility he should win. But given WM I think CIS would play a factor in him and Hulk getting into some toe to toe action, and the longer that kind of fight lasts between the two, the worse things get for Thor.

Pak claimed that "Thor wouldn't want to be in the Sentry's shoes" or some crap like that. Not that he writes Thor.

Thor has recently received a major upgrade in the physical department.

Did anyone AT ALL read Disassembled? Thor physically killed a guy, who the Surfer was forced to BFR in time in order to beat. Not to mention his skirmish with Loki and Fenris.

In that same arc Cap was giving Fenris problems.. I don't think they would have faired much better against "ssj" Hulk so I'm not sure what that proves.

Originally posted by jinzin
Okay I'm going to take a crack at this.

Guys, I'm a street level operative, so if I'm way off base please be easy on me.

Okay, While I think that there has been some excellent speculation from both sides of the debate, I also think that most of that speculation has been strictly bias.

I would venture to say that Hulk does draw his energy from an infinite power source. I think that aside from being an attribute that'd be consistent with his representation of madder=stronger, it's been alluded to enough times to simply be written off as nonsense.

I DO however think there's limits to the strength Hulk can attain given whatever personality he's using at the moment. One of the reasons he was so powerful in the Onslaught battle was because of the fact that he had outside help allowing him to let go of some psychological restraints that were previously holding him back. Whether he reached the apex of his power at that point or could have continued is speculation either way, but there's a good point brought up in that he was the only one who was able to confront Onslaught on a physical level at that moment.

The armor cracking. Impressive though it is... and, it IS impressive, the story did seem to imply that Onslaught had no interest in keeping it as he had ascended. I've also seen convincing arguments that Onslaught let it happen so that he COULD ascend. So it seems as an ambiguous thing to use against Thor in support of Hulk.

With his energy. It's not "limitless". The source he may be drawing energy from "could" be, but the amount he's able to retain in one Hulk manifestion can't be. As pointed out, we've seen him hit physical limits (even if it's been due to psychological issues), AND we've seen SS draw on his energy as well.

With Moljinir, Thor has been shown to draw out energy sources both physical and spectoral. While I think it's reasonable to question why he hasn't done the SS energy drain tactic on Hulk possibly because he couldn't, I don't think it's reasonable to answer that question by asserting that Moljinir's incapable of such a feat. Given the omnipotent origin of the tool itself one can most reasonably assume that Gamma radiation is well within the scope of it's abilities to manipulate.

All that said, this is warrior madness Thor, and if CIS has played a part in him failing to take advantage of such an incredibly powerful dues ex as Moljinir in his past fights with the green goliath, I fail to see how that's going to change here.

On one hand, we've seen that Moljinir's one of the most effective "hulk whackers" to date when it comes to putting the big guy down with blasts. On the other, we've seen multiple times that Thor's a bit over his head when it comes to dealing with Hulk using fisticuffs.

So... If he uses his versatility he should win. But given WM I think CIS would play a factor in him and Hulk getting into some toe to toe action, and the longer that kind of fight lasts between the two, the worse things get for Thor.

Lulz... stupid idiot.

Originally posted by batdude123
Lulz... stupid idiot.

Dammit!

hulk

world breaker hulk goes broly on his @$$.

I don't know about you, but when meik said what he said to the hulk,
i thought he reached his strength limit.....though that strength could very well break anyone below odin.

It was a cool moment in comics IMO because for the first time a character accualy said stop me before I break the world. he begged for something to stop him from imanintly owning earth.

Thor for the majority

Originally posted by jinzin
Okay I'm going to take a crack at this.

Guys, I'm a street level operative, so if I'm way off base please be easy on me.

Okay, While I think that there has been some excellent speculation from both sides of the debate, I also think that most of that speculation has been strictly bias.

I would venture to say that Hulk does draw his energy from an infinite power source. I think that aside from being an attribute that'd be consistent with his representation of madder=stronger, it's been alluded to enough times to simply be written off as nonsense.

I DO however think there's limits to the strength Hulk can attain given whatever personality he's using at the moment. One of the reasons he was so powerful in the Onslaught battle was because of the fact that he had outside help allowing him to let go of some psychological restraints that were previously holding him back. Whether he reached the apex of his power at that point or could have continued is speculation either way, but there's a good point brought up in that he was the only one who was able to confront Onslaught on a physical level at that moment.

The armor cracking. Impressive though it is... and, it IS impressive, the story did seem to imply that Onslaught had no interest in keeping it as he had ascended. I've also seen convincing arguments that Onslaught let it happen so that he COULD ascend. So it seems as an ambiguous thing to use against Thor in support of Hulk.

With his energy. It's not "limitless". The source he may be drawing energy from "could" be, but the amount he's able to retain in one Hulk manifestion can't be. As pointed out, we've seen him hit physical limits (even if it's been due to psychological issues), AND we've seen SS draw on his energy as well.

With Moljinir, Thor has been shown to draw out energy sources both physical and spectoral. While I think it's reasonable to question why he hasn't done the SS energy drain tactic on Hulk possibly because he couldn't, I don't think it's reasonable to answer that question by asserting that Moljinir's incapable of such a feat. Given the omnipotent origin of the tool itself one can most reasonably assume that Gamma radiation is well within the scope of it's abilities to manipulate.

All that said, this is warrior madness Thor, and if CIS has played a part in him failing to take advantage of such an incredibly powerful dues ex as Moljinir in his past fights with the green goliath, I fail to see how that's going to change here.

On one hand, we've seen that Moljinir's one of the most effective "hulk whackers" to date when it comes to putting the big guy down with blasts. On the other, we've seen multiple times that Thor's a bit over his head when it comes to dealing with Hulk using fisticuffs.

So... If he uses his versatility he should win. But given WM I think CIS would play a factor in him and Hulk getting into some toe to toe action, and the longer that kind of fight lasts between the two, the worse things get for Thor.

no wonder you stick to debating street guys.

Originally posted by leonidas
no wonder you stick to debating street guys.



y'know something constructive would be helpful...

Originally posted by jinzin


y'know something constructive would be helpful...



you have nice sentence structure . . .













































heh.

i agree with almost everything you said. in wm mode thor may well opt for h2h. if he does, he loses -- badly. but there are very few instances showing warrior madness, so it's hard to say with any real certainty how a wm thor would battle someone of this level. 'mad' doesn't mean stupid, or 'willing to get his arse kicked', nor does it necessarily mean he fights like a tard, though some have said as much.

could hulk win? of course. i just happen to think thor's versatility still gives him the egde.

so, yeah. good post as usual.

Originally posted by leonidas


you have nice sentence structure . . .













































heh.

i agree with almost everything you said. in wm mode thor may well opt for h2h. if he does, he loses -- badly. but there are very few instances showing warrior madness, so it's hard to say with any real certainty how a wm thor would battle someone of this level. 'mad' doesn't mean stupid, or 'willing to get his arse kicked', nor does it necessarily mean he fights like a tard, though some have said as much.

could hulk win? of course. i just happen to think thor's versatility still gives him the egde.

so, yeah. good post as usual. Alllllriiight!
Yeah, I've only seen about several instances of Warrior Madness Thor, but everything I've seen of him in that state is him going into angry brawl mode. I suppose he could do the whole retaining highly sophisticated strategies while angry thing, but I just haven't seen it personally.

I agree that Thor's versatility is too much for Hulk to overcome, I just don't know if his versatility is something that'd be implemented in this thread given the circumstances.

Wm Thor beat Surfer PIS or not.That's a feat none of the Hulk incarnations were able replicate.

If this is Warrior Madness Thor as we've seen him in the past, I'd give the win to the Hulk.

If this is current Thor gone Warrior Mad, well, it's anyone's guess.

Originally posted by Estacado
Wm Thor beat Surfer PIS or not.That's a feat none of the Hulk incarnations were able replicate.

Well, Hulk has rather handily tossed SS aside like garbage. And Namor at the same time if I'm not mistaken. But SS has way too much versatility over Hulk for Hulk to take him.

Lol *remembers Planet Hulk*

Originally posted by jinzin
Well, Hulk has rather handily tossed SS aside like garbage. And Namor at the same time if I'm not mistaken. But SS has way too much versatility over Hulk for Hulk to take him.

Lol *remembers Planet Hulk*
Still he couldn't hurt or ko Surfer.
In Planet Hulk Surfer was depowered and he didn't want to fight after his control disk was destroyed that was the time when Hulk attacked him.

Originally posted by jinzin
Well, Hulk has rather handily tossed SS aside like garbage. And Namor at the same time if I'm not mistaken. But SS has way too much versatility over Hulk for Hulk to take him.

Lol *remembers Planet Hulk* That's only tossing a 200 pound character... when Surfer fights Hulk, he makes Hulk look really... really bad.

And Planet Hulk had circumstances.

Originally posted by Estacado
Still he couldn't hurt or ko Surfer.
In Planet Hulk Surfer was depowered and he didn't want to fight after his control disk was destroyed that was the time when Hulk attacked him.

True to Planet Hulk. I was just "lol"ing at the image of Hulk plastering his ass into the ground.

Though, I wouldn't say he couldn't hurt or KO surfer, he's never really had much of a chance to try all out. Surfer sapped of his strength before Hulk could really do anything.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
That's only tossing a 200 pound character... when Surfer fights Hulk, he makes Hulk look really... really bad.

And Planet Hulk had circumstances.
Ummm.. I think I said in that very post that Hulk can't take Surfer in a fight.

psst, jinzin -- ignore bran/slipperyfist. he gets . . . confused sometimes. just smile and be nice and he'll go away.

Originally posted by jinzin
Though, I wouldn't say he couldn't hurt or KO surfer, he's never really had much of a chance to try all out. Surfer sapped of his strength before Hulk could really do anything.


Ummm.. I think I said in that very post that Hulk can't take Surfer in a fight. He hit him with 'all his strength' once, and Surfer laughed it off. He was also stomping on his head, and basically getting free shots while he was Bannerless to no effect... srug

ah ain't reed all yo postz. 13

Personally id say that SSJ hulk wins this. Thor does have great enrgy manipulation powers but i dont think they in SS league. SS has shown he can manipulate nearly all forms of enrgy evn magical. Plus manipulating the crunch enrgies is a far greater feat than thor can eva have. But thats beside the point, i am not evn sure if thor can drain the hulks enrgies at all considering that he was channeling it at anb uncontrollable rate. And considering this is warrior mad thor that would not evn be an option. He would simply go in looking to kill the hulk with blasts and hard hits and well fighting like that would get him killed really quickly . SSJ hulk 9/10

What is this SSJ Hulk? SuperSaiyan Jin Hulk? WTF!!

Originally posted by jinzin
In that same arc Cap was giving Fenris problems.. I don't think they would have faired much better against "ssj" Hulk so I'm not sure what that proves.

Cap has given Holocaust, The Hulk and plenty others problems.

Point?

Originally posted by llagrok
Cap has given Holocaust, The Hulk and plenty others problems.

Point?

My point is that Fenris wasn't being portrayed as some Uber foe. That using Thor's fight against Fenris and Loki really doesn't prove a whole lot when it comes to Hulk. I thought I already made that clear.

what kind of WM Thor attack do people think would affect "SSJ" Hulk?
seriously, no bashing or anything, just asking.

obviously I'm of the opinion nothing Thor can throw at Hulk can actually hurt Hulk, but that's just my opinion...


Originally posted by xJLxKing
What is this SSJ Hulk? SuperSaiyan Jin Hulk? WTF!!
thos jugs are hypnotic, who is that?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
He hit him with 'all his strength' once, and Surfer laughed it off. He was also stomping on his head, and basically getting free shots while he was Bannerless to no effect... srug

ah ain't reed all yo postz. 13 Bannerless doesn't automatically make a badass Hulk. Infact a lot of the rage and raw power that Hulk gets eminates from Banner's psychological problems.

I mean you don't see a difference in Hulk being melted to the bone and punching out the guy on the other side of a blast and him crying out "you're killing me?"

I won't argue that Silver Surfer didn't look like he was in much pain, but if the hits had "no" effect why on earth did he put up a force field?


All I'm gonna say is that Hulk's put the "oh shit" face on SS far more than not. I think it's for a reason. But, I suppose this really doesn't have much to do with the debate at hand.

I don't see Thor being able to beat SS as proof that the can whomp Hulk when all direct comparison between the two dictate otherwise.

Originally posted by janus77
what kind of WM Thor attack do people think would affect "SSJ" Hulk?
seriously, no bashing or anything, just asking.

obviously I'm of the opinion nothing Thor can throw at Hulk can actually hurt Hulk, but that's just my opinion...



thos jugs are hypnotic, who is that?

That's Mai from King of Fighters, and Fatal Fury.

Originally posted by jinzin
That's Mai from King of Fighters, and Fatal Fury.
dammit, I need an X-Box .

Originally posted by janus77
dammit, I need an X-Box .



those are actually old Snes and Sega games.

Originally posted by leonidas
psst, jinzin -- ignore bran/slipperyfist. he gets . . . confused sometimes. just smile and be nice and he'll go away.

Originally posted by jinzin


those are actually old Snes and Sega games.
oh ... been playing Leisure Suit Larry for far too long, forgotten what games were like on consoles.

Originally posted by jinzin
Bannerless doesn't automatically make a badass Hulk. Infact a lot of the rage and raw power that Hulk gets eminates from Banner's psychological problems.

I mean you don't see a difference in Hulk being melted to the bone and punching out the guy on the other side of a blast and him crying out "you're killing me?"

I won't argue that Silver Surfer didn't look like he was in much pain, but if the hits had "no" effect why on earth did he put up a force field?


All I'm gonna say is that Hulk's put the "oh shit" face on SS far more than not. I think it's for a reason. But, I suppose this really doesn't have much to do with the debate at hand.

I don't see Thor being able to beat SS as proof that the can whomp Hulk when all direct comparison between the two dictate otherwise. Perhaps you're right... however, they turned off Banner's side to make him 'stronger'. He's basically the same Hulk that cracked Onslaught.


Are you comparing the U-Foes thing to the Surfer thing? Because the U-Foes were attacking him with power. Surfer was draining his gamma (which would have made Hulk non-existent). Hulk's not going to heal from that...

So he wouldn't be hit anymore? I mean, Surfer doesn't really like to be hit... especially when people are stomping on his head.

And he's never really been able to harm him. And Surfer's KO'ed him like 4 times.

Perhaps.

---

Either way, I don't really care about this fight... srug

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Perhaps you're right... however, they turned off Banner's side to make him 'stronger'. He's basically the same Hulk that cracked Onslaught.

Don't think so.
There's different Hulk's just as there's different influences on Hulk by way of Banner...
And that was just my point. It ISN'T the same Hulk... The only thing they had in common was that Banner wasn't in control in any facet, way, shape, or form anymore. I'm sorry I should have clarified this earlier. This is why I think the example is skewed: We're using a version of Hulk who was suped up to a point of strength that hasn't been compared to since. We've already seen WM Thor take on and stupify SS, but we haven't seen "SSJ" Hulk fail to put Surfer down cause he never had the chance to try. Saying that (and I know it wasn't you but that's what got us here in the first place) WM Thor could put SS down, while ignoring that it was only OTHER versions of Hulk that have ever fought him and not "SSJ" doesn't make a convincing argument for Thor.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist

Are you comparing the U-Foes thing to the Surfer thing? Because the U-Foes were attacking him with power. Surfer was draining his gamma (which would have made Hulk non-existent). Hulk's not going to heal from that...
Sorry, perhaps I need to clarify again. Other versions of Hulk, powerful versions, have had little care over their personal well being, but this manifestion was crying about how he was getting killed. it just reads off to me like he's a wimp compared to other manifestions.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
So he wouldn't be hit anymore? I mean, Surfer doesn't really like to be hit... especially when people are stomping on his head.
And he's never really been able to harm him. And Surfer's KO'ed him like 4 times.
Perhaps.
---

Either way, I don't really care about this fight... srug Granted Hulk usually gets put down before he can hurt Surfer, I don't think Surfer's ever (EVER) had to deal with Hulk at the level of power that's being discussed here. And, both him, AND Thanos have made comments that they wouldn't want to either. To me, that says something.

Originally posted by jinzin
Don't think so.
There's different Hulk's just as there's different influences on Hulk by way of Banner...
And that was just my point. It ISN'T the same Hulk... The only thing they had in common was that Banner wasn't in control in any facet, way, shape, or form anymore. I'm sorry I should have clarified this earlier. This is why I think the example is skewed: We're using a version of Hulk who was suped up to a point of strength that hasn't been compared to since. We've already seen WM Thor take on and stupify SS, but we haven't seen "SSJ" Hulk fail to put Surfer down cause he never had the chance to try. Saying that (and I know it wasn't you but that's what got us here in the first place) WM Thor could put SS down, while ignoring that it was only OTHER versions of Hulk that have ever fought him and not "SSJ" doesn't make a convincing argument for Thor.


Sorry, perhaps I need to clarify again. Other versions of Hulk, powerful versions, have had little care over their personal well being, but this manifestion was crying about how he was getting killed. it just reads off to me like he's a wimp compared to other manifestions.

Granted Hulk usually gets put down before he can hurt Surfer, I don't think Surfer's ever (EVER) had to deal with Hulk at the level of power that's being discussed here. And, both him, AND Thanos have made comments that they wouldn't want to either. To me, that says something. I know, but the Surfer thing was already brought up, so I figured "Why not?".
And I really hate talking about RRHulk, as his strength is so ambiguous, it's ridiculous. What he can do, and what he can't do is never shown. All we know is that he can potentially break the world, he's more powerful than he's been, and he's got gamma flowing off of him. And Iron Man's laser is powerful enough to KO him (yes I know Hulk let himself be hit, but he never lowered his durability... did he?).
How much can we really draw from this? If you were Devilhulk, you'd put him above abstract level, and others put him above Odin level ( )... so... he's pointless in debating about.
Until we see someone punk Iron Man's laser...

However, Hulk sort of knows attacks that merely melt his skin off or whatever won't put him down. And he also knows that he's f*cked without gamma (especially when he has no human host to revert to). Plus, it could also be that he's telling his pacifist 'friend' to stop.

It's not Surfer's fault Hulk can't hurt him before he gets KO'ed, or the fight stops.

Surfer always fights Hulk...
And prior to the Thanos comment, Thanos was in a previously weaker body... so I can't see how either has relevance to Hulk.

Anyway, Surfer could easily beat this Hulk anyway... it starts with raising an arm, and sucking his gamma away.

As for Thor... he'd have a better chance in his normal mindset.

I'm not arguing that SS couldn't beat any Hulk with Gamma manipulation.

I was raising another point.

Thanos in a weaker body is still>>> Silver Surfer.

Silver Surfer's comment should also warrant merit.

I stand by what I said before, we have't seen surfer fight THAT hulk in terms of raw brute strength, so we can't use WM Thor beating Norrin against Hulk.

Originally posted by jinzin
Bannerless doesn't automatically make a badass Hulk. Infact a lot of the rage and raw power that Hulk gets eminates from Banner's psychological problems.


They needed to turn off Banner inside Hulk so he could fight Onslaught.....ermm

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I know, but the Surfer thing was already brought up, so I figured "Why not?".
And I really hate talking about RRHulk, as his strength is so ambiguous, it's ridiculous. What he can do, and what he can't do is never shown. All we know is that he can potentially break the world, he's more powerful than he's been, and he's got gamma flowing off of him. And Iron Man's laser is powerful enough to KO him (yes I know Hulk let himself be hit, but he never lowered his durability... did he?).
How much can we really draw from this? If you were Devilhulk, you'd put him above abstract level, and others put him above Odin level ( )... so... he's pointless in debating about.
Until we see someone punk Iron Man's laser...

However, Hulk sort of knows attacks that merely melt his skin off or whatever won't put him down. And he also knows that he's f*cked without gamma (especially when he has no human host to revert to). Plus, it could also be that he's telling his pacifist 'friend' to stop.

It's not Surfer's fault Hulk can't hurt him before he gets KO'ed, or the fight stops.

Surfer always fights Hulk...
And prior to the Thanos comment, Thanos was in a previously weaker body... so I can't see how either has relevance to Hulk.

Anyway, Surfer could easily beat this Hulk anyway... it starts with raising an arm, and sucking his gamma away.

As for Thor... he'd have a better chance in his normal mindset.

Iron mans satellites neutralized his gamma enrgy and turned him back to banner. They did not physically knock him out or we would have seen an unconcious hulk before seeing him turn back to banner. That laser thing should not be used as a basis for determining that version of hulks durability. Since the hulks durability/HF grows together with his strength
it can be logically concluded ( not assumed) that his durability was FAAAAAAAAAAAAR higher than that of regualr WWH ( like a million times) so evn if you claim that it koed hulk by force it would mean that the lasers could equally ko guys like thor and surfer

Originally posted by Estacado
They needed to turn off Banner inside Hulk so he could fight Onslaught.....ermm I'm guessing you missed out where there's different manifestions of Hulk too eh?